I agree. Putting together your own product is very profitable. It just has to be relavent, and fresh!

[DELETED]

hmm, i guess good won't exist without evil?

I mean if every1 goes into teaching, then who's in the 'doing' category?
Besides, unless one has good experienced in this field, how can they teach before doing it beforehand (the learning process) :p

oh, sorry, forgot to mention this - yeah, not that I disagree with the 'teaching' theory/approach, just that there are many (like me lol) who's not there yet to be teaching others

I can assure you that many more people are making money by doing than they are by selling 'how to do'. A lot of people that supplement their income by teaching people how to do what they do are making far more money by actually doing.

I've personally talked to one marketer that makes 7 figs a year, another that does 8.

Neither of them touches the IM niche with a 40 foot pole.

Sorry buddy, you're still only at Chapter 1, here's how the rest of the story pans out.

So you figure that "teaching" a.k.a. trying to help someone do something that you can't actually do yourself is a good way to make a quick buck. Good, so you set yourself up as some kind of a "coach", throw out some WSOs hoping some suckers will bite.

Only problem is, what kind of testimonials or results do you have to stand on? ZERO. Sure, maybe you've got a few internet marketing buddies who will help you out in that regard, or if all else fails there's always the "review copy" route or even paying someone to write a glowing recommendation for you.

Your problems are only going to grow bigger once you get some suckers to bite. They'll come to you, with all kinds of questions that you won't be able to answer and YOU ARE GOING TO BE FOUND OUT VERY QUICKLY.

...Or not, in which case you're always going to be living in dread that one day, you will wake up and EVERYONE WILL KNOW YOU ARE A FRAUD.

The way I see it, it's much easier to actually have the goods and deliver it, than to try to pretend that you do and spend every waking moment trying to look like you're the real deal.

Go ahead and try it your way if you're not convinced.

On the contrary...

It's the guy who no one even knows about...

Maybe he's even a college student sitting in his dorm room...

And he's making more than many of the teachers combined.

Great great points guys. Here's a point I've always thought: if the techniques work, why are they selling it? They could make so much more money teaching for free and taking a piece of the pie.

I am invested in half a dozen marketing businesses and work with the owners to grow their business. I don't charge a dime and always willing to help any business that will give me a percentage (as long as I believe in the model)

Honestly, a lot of posters in this thread have just looked at the potential of money making in the IM industry only.

I sell products too- but then again, this is not my main niche. I make more selling in a number of obscure but more profitable niches outside of WF and the IM industry.

So viewpoint is this: There is more money to be made in doing IM- rather than teaching IM :-)

Not sure how that's going to work then.
Judging by the sig files here,
there are 10 teachers to every one that needs teaching.
:confused:

I know there is a population of the IM community that makes good money doing their own thing and makes money by providing a valuable product/course that teaches others to do it.

Saying something like "I would triple my income by not showing ANYONE" shows a lack of knowledge in how IM works. I do agree that it's extremely suspicious when someone claims a huge income (I made $102816162 last month!) and then sells a guide for a few dollars (Only $7!) - it simply doesn't make sense. However, if you can legitimately teach someone how to do what you do and be paid for it, why wouldn't you leverage your knowledge and do this? You would probably be stupid not to, unless you have some secret knowledge and it would hurt your business to share it. :confused:

Not everyone is out to rip you off. I don't blame you for being cynical, though, because the majority are.

I think the OP is a pot stirring troll who actually
has no real world experience and no clue what
he's talking about.

Don't feed the trolls...

Selling shovels to gold diggers, what else is new? Still, you better make sure the shovels don't break the first time they are put to use, otherwise you may be out of business very soon.

You just have to be discriminating. Buy from someone and see if what they teach works or at least helps you advance in some way. If it flops, don't go with them next time. On WF sometimes I think there's more products than grains of sand on the beach.

Yes it does. You are simply short-sighted and small-minded.

You think I want to sell you a product for what YOU would pay.

I am selling it for what EVERYBODY pays.

You sit there and snort and say "who would sell that for $7?" while 150 people buy it.

That's not $7. That's over $1k.

And that's a pretty small launch. Just about anyone could duplicate that result. You don't have to be a big name guru or much of an expert. You just have to be interesting.

And I am nothing if not interesting.

Interesting points and I have had some similar thoughts about the IM niche.

My take, is that when someone develops a really successful method, they will of course use it for themselves. Once it starts to cool down a bit, they can earn some more money off of the idea by teaching it to others. I'm generalizing here, this isn't always the case, of course.

There's going to be great tools and resources that will pay off in spades with hard work, and there's going to be the copycats without much to offer besides rehashing the information they purchased two months ago from someone else. I'm not going to generalize an entire niche, but it does seem like a large chunk of the revenues generated in the IM niche come from telling people how to make money in the IM niche, which is kind of ironic.

I'd say there are 3 types of people that teach IM. Make no mistake, all of them are doing it because it has the potential to be lucrative.

1) People that have had outside-MMO success, are passionate about the topic, and want to make more money.

2) People that tell people they've made money outside of MMO, but most likely haven't. Or it represents a small % of their income. You'll hear these people say "Oh yeah, it's way easier to sell outside of MMO. I just like to help people" (blah, blah, blah).

3) The people that have no experience outside of MMO.

Lots of the big name gurus started selling MMO products without any prior experiences. Off the top of my head, I think Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern, Keith Wellman, and Russel Brunson.

What if you TEACH, what you are doing. For instance, I teach a course on basic internet marketing skills. It teaches people in any niche the four basic things you need to have an internet marketing business.

These are THE SAME four things I use in my business every day...

Jason

You're probably right. But I wonder how a successful marketer who wants to share their knowledge with other people goes about it without offending you?

Sell at any of the price points mentioned above, and the "expert" must be a fake.

Sell a $5,000-$10,000 seminar and the expert is "fly-by-night" & "greedy".

Give it away for free and no one will take it seriously and they'll let it collect dust on their hard drive.

Offer 1 on 1 coaching and it's just a "publicity stunt".

No offense, but I can see why some stay far away from the IM niche...

Now those "Teachers" are the reason why 99% of people think IM is a scam.
Basically, you saying ... You Failed at making money online, now feed other people BS, so they can fail ... Are you serious right now?
YOU BETTER BE MAKING MONEY IN IM BEFORE TELLING ME HOW I SHOULD MAKE MONEY. WHY? Let's see, you don't make any money online, so WTF you going to teach me? Basically, you are teaching other people how to fail. Anyone wants that? No. And let me guess, you probably going to title your product "Make millions online today" right?

Most people that make money online NOT going to share their method. Not saying all WSO's are bs, some of them are great, but 99% of the times you have to put your own spin to it for it to work.

what you have learned (sorry)

Snatch This Pebble From My Hand, Grasshopper...

There can be no valid generalization of people in this market. Clearly there is a big discrepancy between the legitimate products and the less than legitimate ones, but the IM niche is by no means the only way to earn money. I don't believe there is any particular reason to only focus on this market when there are many other good ones, although some people might if they really are selling poor stuff.

There is an old saying that many people throw around that says "You make more money selling picks and shovels than you do mining for gold..."

It is alluding to the fact that Levi Strauss got rich selling clothing and tools to the miners in the Gold Rush of 1849...

While that was true for Levi... And has been true for many others... I would say that the story might have been quite different if there were thousands of people trying to sell the miners jeans, picks and shovels.

These days it seems like everyone wants to be a teacher or a guru and put out a quick course or whatever and make it rich. I know for a fact that the people who are really making it big online are the ones you never heard of because they have found a little gold mine somewhere and they are quietly extracting all the gold from it.

I know - it's such a scam for someone to TEACH online marketing, and then get rich by selling that product VIA ONLINE MARKETING!!

sarcasm aside - do you not see how this is different then selling "how to" products regarding trading/forex/etc, real estate investing, etc?? You honestly see a disconnect when a successfull info-product marketer teaches others how to successfully sell info products?

Sorry, but in my opinion nothing is more genuine then a marketer teaching marketing..

now - I DO find it funny when someone luanches the latest "shiney object" (marketing via social media, etc), yet they launch it via good old email lists

I heard a story about a guy who runs a sport-related blog in New Zealand where he posts about NZ sports. He has 10K+ visitors per day, and has turned his little blog into his full time business.

Consider how many people there are using the web for more mainstream topics. Then consider just how many sites there are catering to those mainstream topics as well as the spin-off niches. The majority of those spin-off sub-niches are likely considerably larger than the MMO niche.

Of course, trolls don't want to look beyond their own argument.

The money is in the doing AND the teaching... CORRECTLY.

Anybody can do and anybody can teach how to do but can "anybody" do as the master does and teach as the master teaches?

Strive to know exactly what you're doing, how you're doing it and why it's done that way at every single step of the process. It'll be daunting. Embrace this.

What that translates to in terms of your daily approach to IM is REFUSING to give in to laziness when you don't know why something is done how it's done. It means PUSHING yourself to get the real scoop, even if it means ignoring what's popular (often wrong) and going to the primary source, THINKING long and hard (huh, huh) and drawing your own conclusions.

The dude (or chick) who understands methods but doesn't understand principles will always be at the mercy of the principle-oriented thinker.

ROFLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very interesting discussion. this thought also struck to me sometime, that there is more money in teaching. But, i do not know. Because, those who know, they dont yell, they quietly do their work.

Dear Woodsy1,

If your purpose of establishing that account was to make friends, it appears you are off to a stellar start. Congratulations.

MDF

You're right. There the money comes. Money never comes from BUYING!!

The answer is very simple: the money is in value, not in imitation.
Many those gurus just imitate and they makes money from dummies and poor people. They really just a imitator, not inovator. They dont understand the business process at all, they produce all as quick fix and that is how they make money

I don't completely agree with this. Yes, there are many e-books for money making formulas with misleading sales pages. But there are also many internet marketing e-books and teaching sites that changed life of countless people.

Those are the people who helped me and others with valuable information. Just look around in the forum, you will find many stories.

Sorry to say, But I can see you are not an internet marketing guru. A marketing guru will do research first before blaming all the people in the internet marketing industry. No, I am not involved in IM industry. I am a designer and all of my inspiration came from this forum.

This thread is a waste of time and space.. lol

All you are doing is helping woodsy1 raise his post count while he waits for the late UPS guy.

It sounds like we can all learn from woodsy1 and he should create a WSO teaching his 600k secrets.

Every internet marketing have their own way on how be successful and profit great income. It their choice whether they buy those things to generate income or to their way to learn and earn. It is still us the one to decide which way to choose.

This would have to be the most entertaining threads all week.

The OP has hit a raw nerve... and like it or not he makes a valid point. Yet many seem to play the man and not the issue.

Of course the gurus make more money teaching. What's the big deal?

And yes, I also ask my self the same question... if your product shows me how to make $1000 in 3 hours, why are you selling it for $7?

Why not spend 30 hours a week and make $10k lazy?

Look at all thr big players and they all have a common string... they take what they have done and make millions teaching others how to do the same.

Wanna get really filthy rich? Do the same. You'd be crazy not to.

Carry on whilst I make some popcorn and come back for more action.

This would have to be the most entertaining threads all week.

The OP has hit a raw nerve... and like it or not he makes a valid point. Yet many seem to play the man and not the issue.

Of course the gurus make more money teaching. What's the big deal?

And yes, I also ask my self the same question... if your product shows me how to make $1000 in 3 hours, why are you selling it for $7?

Why not spend 30 hours a week and make $10k lazy?

Look at all thr big players and they all have a common string... they take what they have done and make millions teaching others how to do the same.

Wanna get really filthy rich? Do the same. You'd be crazy not to.

Carry on whilst I make some popcorn and come back for more action.

Napoleon Hill was broke when he wrote "Think and Grow Rich".

He studied successful people and published his findings.

It's still a best seller and still as valuable today as it was in 1937, yet he was not wealthy when he wrote it.

Are we talking about college basketball?

Because if so, I agree. Those coaches make millions each year and the players get nothing....

I have spent 27.00-47.00-67.00-97.00-167.00 dollars on many courses over the past several years. I bought these not because I was expecting them to get me rich but to fast track me and teach me Internet Marketing strategies. I have no problem paying for knowledge. I think the problem with some people learning Internet Marketing...is that they expect everything including training to be free. You can go this route...but your learning curve and time to reach success will be much longer. IMO....

I don't know about anyone else, but I sure don't want a teacher that can't do what they are teaching.

Sure, there is an adage that says "those that can't do, teach" but it's not the truth - at least at higher levels. You ever seen a professor that can't do the research or the field work in their subject? A math teacher that can't do math? A geologist who can't tell in the field where certain minerals might exist? An art professor that can't paint?

Come on, that adage was made by people who worked hard for a living and were jealous of people who had jobs that seemed cush and prestigious - and you have picked it up and run with it as a truth.

Frankly - I would never want to listen to anyone in any field that wasn't successful in the field already. It would be like getting financial advice from someone who lives in a house trailer and has 3 dead cars in the yard.

I don't think everyone is evil and out there to "pull a fast one" by selling a product.

If you think about it, they are addressing a need that customers have. People ARE buying these because they WANT to know more about the topic. This is what we're taught to do as Internet marketers in multiple niches. Just because we are a part of the Internet marketing community doesn't make it any less of a niche.

These courses that "teach" us are a need for a lot of people. What's the difference if you are teaching Internet marketing or how to play guitar or underwater basket weaving? In all cases you are still providing value to people that want it.

I don't think it's fair to say these teachers are scheming you. They are essentially teaching you how the sell to a niche. It just so happens that most of these people are familiar with how to market so it makes sense they'd be good at teaching it.

That's not to say there aren't those out there who are scheming the system but I feel that often times they are the ones who give the rest of the community a bad name.

If you think that the only way people are making money online is by teaching others about Internet marketing then by all means, go for it. That just leaves more room in the millions of other niches for the rest of us!

I've been doing IM since the very begining of the internet. These so called teachers are con artists. I've looked at many of their programs and I know it won't work. You can make some good money if you know how to do SEO, social media, etc but it's not easy like these IM millionaire programs make it out to be.

Just something else I wanted to add...

Sales pages are meant to...sell. So they sound too good to be true. Internet marketing is simple....not easy, but simple. The concepts aren't hard to understand and master but it takes work to apply them and that's what most people forget.

Here's a great example of a similar situation. You know those websites where you can "get a FREE TV if you just put in your email address" or "FREE iPhone 4 testing."

Scams right?

Well in college I researched a number of these sites. Found one. Spent time doing about 12 offers that you have to do which amounted to about $300 spent out of my pocket. But I got a 52" HDTV for "Free" which would have cost me about $2000 if I bought it in the store. Most people would say that those people are scammers, they aren't scammers...they just are running a business model where most people don't take the time to follow through and do everything they need to.

Supply and demand...simply business. There is a demand for these IM teaching programs so it's going to attract suppliers. But to generalize and say that all teachers are just a majority of their money by teaching is neglecting that they might be good businessmen/women and see an opportunity they can fill and profit from.

Just my $.02

I agree that many of those who make it big offer advice/eBooks on how it's done, it says a great deal of time to getting to where they want to be without the man hours

I agree, that sucks. Shouldn't happen but you must admit you made some massive generalisations and if they are left unchecked someone might come in here and believe them.

Yes I help people get the most from WSOs they buy - that's why I can speak on the level of quality I am seeing and feel compelled to defend against misinformation and false blanket aspersions. I have no control over the quality of any WSOs that are put out because that's not what I do.

Don't assume that 4 months on this forum tells you the full story about me. I've been using this place for years and more than experience to comment. You're right, this is an open forum and you will be asked to explain your comments occasionally. Just like I just did. You say something I disagree with, I pull you up on it, that's how these places work. I just get sick and tired of hearing the same old falsehoods and clichés and I see the direct result of the damage it does.

well said,..lol...after buying all type of stuff fro IM and spending about six months, I proudly said that I made $o with IM yet,..lol..funny you brought this subject up,..NICE

There is money to be made selling the shovels and there is money to be made digging for the Gold.

You have to figure out which you are best at... then make it happen.

Yeah, it is an interesting idea. In the country I live there is a saying: "Those who not know it, teach it."

Well, it is not always true IMO but it is easier to build up an image online than in offline.

I think those who really achieve solid result are the ones we can really learn from.

For you maybe, but in the real world it is very real, very possible and makes perfect sense.

Oh ok, at least now we realise that it IS possible but only after working at it? I think these "people who expect easy money" only exist in people's heads. I have never met anyone who came on here expecting anything to be easy. Every single one of them expected to work very hard.

So what if two people explain the same thing? How does that harm anyone? The first person might be a horrible teacher and the second guy might be a better teacher or uses a different style. Is there a rule that says only one person is allowed to explain one thing?

There's a ton of multi millionaires that sell books for $20 based on teaching you how.

Only difference is that they aren't offered with ridiculous over exaggerated income claims.

You don't see Richard Branson releasing a book called: How I made $48.63451 Million Dollars In 7 Months.. And Did It With Just One Boeing 747!

What bothers me about this thread is that the OP made a VALID POINT and has had several insults hurled his way in response. OP has called absolutely nobody out by name yet more than one person felt it necessary to either call him names or hurl other insults.

In my experience, most folks who resort to insults and name calling generally have no other valid counterpoint to make. Now, that may not be the case all the time but it sure comes across that way to people.

The fact that someone questions popular belief doesn't necessarily make him a troll or a troublemaker.

Anybody can teach. However, my belief is that those who teach with any integrity have to do first before they teach. You can teach what you can't do, but you CAN'T teach effectively unless you know how to do.

Just my opinion.

LOL Yeh that's true. but you also have to realize that it is important and paramount to provide actual workable information in your courses. Courses that make people money...usually makes you money as well.

There are also some ebooks that launch and get no more than 10 sales completely wasting the time you spent. I've been fortunate enough to have my WSOs pretty successful to date though and so I do have to agree with you there is money to be made in mproduct creation.

It's faster and easier in most cases. But often it should be off methods that hav been tried and tested. Few people buy in to method that are "possibilities" and if you don't have the proof to back it up; it can easily go down the drain.

It's about delivering value and quality.

The fact that he makes a point to say there are exceptions makes it a valid point to me. Of course it is difficult to prove but common sense (in my opinion) tells me that if someone is actually making $500 per day (or some other outlandish claim), he is typically not going to advertise that "method" for $27 (for various reasons that I'm too lazy to type out).

As a case in point, I currently earn $xxxx per month via affiliate marketing. It would be easy for me to package this VERY UNIQUE strategy up along with the tools I use and sell it for $97 (or whatever). But why would I do that and create competition for myself?? My gut tells me I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

If you want to go far in the business of product selling, you must first learn, practice, get reasonable result that others will be interested in and then package an information product on how you got those result. If you just put information you can't back up, or prove to work together then your sales will be low, that's if there will even be sales because for something you have no idea how it works, your sales pitch will not be convincing. If you go through the WSO you will see most of the sales posts are backed up with some proof to show what they are selling to you will work for you.

The information marketing business is getting crowded, you can find several people selling related products, so buyers have options. So to get them to buy yours, they must be convinced yours is the best for them.

Moreover, if you're in the business for the long haul, it's important first to be a doer before teaching because if you write one great product that works, you won't need to find new customers for your next product, your old customers who already bought your first product and got their money's worth will be anxious for your next product. And they will even get you new customers because they will be talking about what great product you have and the result they got using your product in forums. Like they say, a good product sells itself. Also remember that a good name is better than silver and gold.

Finally, writing an ebook to sell is the easy part, actually getting people to buy that ebook is the not so easy part. So you must know what you're doing.

There's certainly a lot of money in teaching as you can charge more for your valuable time and experience.

However, I don't think its sustainable for someone who actually isn't doing to convince the masses that they are for any extended period of time.

You may make some sales initially, but eventually the refunds will start to come

'You can fool some people sometimes, but you can't fool all the people all the time'

Interesting discussion guys. Thanks. As for me, I am a newbie in the process of learning with a very good tutor that has integrity. She hasn't lied to me or led me on and is honest about what I can expect. I know that there is lots of work on the pathway to success. Before I came across her, I was duped by the hype and thought it was easier and more profitable than it is.

Thank God for a good tutor like mine who set me straight.

This is not just on the internet. It is in the offline world, too. Many people (most who have not "made it", you might say) cannot believe that someone who is doing very well would have any reason to give anything away below value, yet it happens frequently.

I myself have done this offline many times and only charged enough to cover expenses.

So I'm sure that there are people online, as well, who have done well themselves and want to help others.

I'm sure online, that there are also people who present themselves as whatever they want to make a quick buck. It is easier to do online.

So you do have to be cautious, but I wouldn't just assume everything that is free or at a low cost is not valuable.

Once, years ago, on an investing forum, I built an online relationship with someone and after a while we decided to communicate for real. I found out this person was famous and wealthy and we ended up doing 3 joint ventures. He was actually on there anonymously to help as many people as he could but most thought he was a just a scammer.

Some advise I got years ago was, "if it sounds too good to be true, it very well may not be, but it might be, so check it out. don't just assume it is bad."

:-)

From 100% ,maybe 5% and maybe less people make money online , thought just make website and put link affiliate make money, there is just a couple step to far , need more advertising and promote , promote , and...promote,

I taught myself how to teach teachers to teach other teachers.

I just need more students now ;-)

everything is the part of the universe.
Guru's,scamsters,buyers,sellers,you and me all come in IM. The deeper you go the better you understand.

You can use a thing which is not commonly available = common sense.

The problem I see with this thread is that most of the
participants are stuck in Warrior Forum mentality. In other
words, the Warrior Forum is pretty much your frame of
reference for what people are doing on the internet.

So... naturally... given that frame of reference... it's easy
to see why you'd think that people make more money teaching
than doing.

Sorry... I love the Warrior Forum but if this is the standard
you apply for determining who is doing what to make money
on the internet you are putting up artificial barriers and limiting
yourself in ways you don't even understand.

There are MANY people making millions of dollars on the internet
doing... and... surprise!... they have zero interest in teaching.

The OP, and those who accept his flawed premise, don't know what
they don't know.

[DELETED]

No way one can say only teacher make money or money is in teaching. Definietly they are making money by selling their products to teach the newcomers. Many of them may not work but sell. Making money with teaching can be called Another income stream for the experienced internet marketer etc. Who is already making money and now, knows the path how he get there and selling it to those who want to be on the same path. Affiliate selling your product will make you more money than selling affiliate products. I would call it quick income of a teacher.

This has certainly been a topic that has spun out of control. "IM" means more than just teaching people to market online. There are many sub-categories.

If you sell software, then your money is in selling software.
If you sell tangible goods, then your money is in selling those goods.
If you sell information products, then you are likely making money teaching people to do things.

I don't know why so many of you have to complicate this. Amazon makes millions upon millions selling tangible goods. Frank Kern makes millions upon millions teaching people to sell online. They are very, very different business models. Why are we obsessed on comparing them?

Private schools and colleges make loads teaching people, yet you don't find threads from students yelling that the money is in opening a University.

I agree with what you stated but you're missing a couple other sides to the argument. What if the teacher has been asked by several people to teach them? As an entrepreneur would that teacher be an idiot for turning away those people or would they be a smart business person for accepting them in exchange for a fee?

There's more to life then JUST money. Teaching is very profitable. So is doing the stuff you're teaching but there's two aspects you're missing in your post.

First some teachers teach because they like the rewards outside of the monetary ones. See this: Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (it's wikipedia so it's got to be true). Once you've covered your safety needs, you move onto other needs that develop. As you move higher up that diagram on that page, money doesn't become your central focus anymore. I know this as I've experienced it. Sometimes helping someone else become successful is worth more then another $10,000 a month. You can't take money with you and why not help as many people as you can while you're on this big ball of dirt?

Second, anyone who has done their own stuff knows how it's profitable, takes 16 hours per day and you're doing alone. Humans are social animals. We need interaction with others, so if I'm spending 16 hours doing my own stuff on my own, YES I will make MORE money, but I'll also go nuts because I do not have the time to enjoy it with my loved ones. So I take a "pay cut" and teach people how to do it for this reason too.

Exactly, you can't paint everyone with one broad stroke. Online people take offense if they think you're talking about them. You've stated that you're not referring to all teachers, (just most apparently). That's a good thing.

I kind of agree with you on this too. There are now courses out there teaching people how to launch courses about making money online. The people putting these out there have no business doing so. So yeah, you're right.

As for the reasons why, I listed 2 above but a 3rd is volume. If you charge a low amount for your knowledge, (and you're legit), then you can make a lot of money doing it. Typically it's a marketing gimmick to get you into their sales funnel where at the end is the magical $500 upsell that you would never have even considered if they didn't charge $7 to start. It's just a marketing technique. But there is a lot of money to be made in doing it.

Everyone has a right to post their opinion and there's no need for anyone in this thread to personally attack anyone else for not agreeing with it.

The problem is what some of the big name (aka the syndicate) players have "done" to the industry. They saw an opportunity and seized it and charged BIG dollars for their programs -- and people signed up in droves

but time has passed and more people have personal experience working with the internet -- and the "shocking" experience is that it is WORK!!!

There is nothing wrong with teaching or coaching or whatever you want to call it. The issue is the OUTRAGEOUS CLAIMS -- and the answer is BUYER BEWARE. You have to put on your thinking caps and leave your emotions at the door.

I love learning new things and their are lots of wonderful "teachers" here and elsewhere (tiffany dow, chris guthrie, pat flynn are some of my favorites) that teach and sell products and stay away from the hype.

If you want to buy a product or a system - then do YOUR RESEARCH before you hit the BUY NOW button.

(as an interesting side research project -- google salty droid and check out the info on stompernet and andy jenkins -- why because it isn't the GROSS income that EVER EVER EVER EVER matters -- it is PROFIT!!!! -- yes, they may have had a six figure launch but how much did they pay themselves, how much did they have to spend to get the program made, and did they pay their affiliates and staff)

Teaching is great -- but you don't have to be TAUGHT by every teacher out there. YOU can decide who you learn from

You are 100% right. It's in teaching (a team how to do it for you while you scale your business!)

One last word in this wandering thread. I found out decades ago as a graduate assistant and later as a teacher that you will never learn any subject so well as when you have to teach it to others. You have to be able to reasonably explain every concept, justify every action and achieve consistent quantifiable DUPLICATABLE results. It takes a lot of effort to stay ahead of a classroom full of students. Just being privileged to stand in the front of a class translates to an awesome responsibility.

Thomas

The number of people who want to learn IM far outweighs the number who teach it. Why would you be shocked to come to a place of IM learning and find teachers?

There are 38 million people in the world who are classified as millionaires, that's less than one in 200 I read the other day, and no Im not smart enough to figure out the math, but I HAVE made millions of dollar in sales in my lifetime....

Why is it so hard to believe that a couple hundred of those millionaires could be here? There are 38 MILLION of them. It makes sense that some of them would be at a money making forum. At least a small percentage. Doesnt take a college degree to figure that out.

Sounds like you are pissed that 25 year old high school dropouts are making more money than you ever dreamed with your college degree, teaching stuff they know to people who REALLY want to know it.

What happens is offliners like me who have been outsourcing for years, come here to learn how to expand on what they do (learn to build their own sites so they can quit getting raped by designers), and in the process they see that others need to know what THEY know... so they teach it.

The demand gets big, and their students start succeeding and needing counsiling and more advanced thoughts on the subject as they grow.... and the next thing you know you are teaching more...then the next thing you know the students want a different angle so you teach that... Then the next thing you know you are feeling great about helping people...then the next thing you know you spent half of your year teaching passionately and only half the time selling that you did the year before...

When I came here myself I wanted to learn about building websites, and found that the people who knew needed me too, because they didnt know how to cold call... Somehow by total accident I swear, I ended up owning a teaching forum with 2500 members who REALLY need what I teach.

I still sell websites, but I probably have spent more time this year teaching, and it has been more life enriching though not as much money.

Supply/Demand.

BTW: I feel no need to hide it, that I make money teaching my expertise, and my students are proud to support that. Im proud of it. When does a person have to feel shame for being a teacher?

Another example:

Before last year I could never tell you in a million years how to build a forum... but now Im a pro who has made around 50k part time from just being a forum owner within the last years... and I bet you could learn a thing or two from me. A thing or two that would be worth far more than $27.00!

See how this works?

Here's a tip:

A: Find a webdesigner
B: Get a Phone Book
C: Call 200 people and ask them if they need a website.
D: Go out and see the ones who are interested and "sell" them one.

Now you just made $500- $1000

Does that sound like rocket science? Do I need a degree to teach you that?

Are there literally a MILLION SALES TRAINERS in the offline world with no degree?

See? You are ranting, and your intelligent thoughts are leaving out alot of important considerations.

What about the guy who doesnt have a college degree but he learned car sales, and his boss gets an idea, and asked him to "Blindly" list some cars on ebay (they are TRYING IT OUT) and auto trader, and over months time he becomes really good at making listings and end up selling a car every other day online...

Lets say that six months ago he had never made a dime in his life and now he is making money hand over fist because he stumbled onto his own way of selling cars online...

Let me ask...Would you like to know what he knows?

Could he teach you something?

Would he need any qualifications?

Is he smarter than alot of people with teaching degree's?

Last example...

I have a friend who hired a WELFARE MOM who is REALLY REALLY not what you would think of as a specialist... In fact just two years ago she was a total crack addict and the largest word in her vocabulary only had 4 letters it seemed.

I personally trained her to run his ebay site. she does it now all by herself... When I left her it was at a few grand per month, a year and a half later its at $12,000-$15,000 per month.

Her favorite word still has four letters, and she can barely even spell it! lol (Thats extreme , but trying to show you here...) YET, he cant live without her, she runs his ebay site like a clock and knows it better than I do now...

And guess what... She could come here and teach people how to start an ebay site, and be legit.

So, I think you are ranting, and your view is tarnished by jealousy.

You would probably run Bethany off this forum,. but she could teach just about anyone to start their own ebay site, and has since. She now trains assistants at it. For that matter so could I, but you never hear me teach it. I have passion for what I teach, which is telemarketing.

Hope this helps someone.

Ps. That lesson was free. and I dont have a degree, but I am WAAAY over qualified to teach it!

I can't wait until dark to see if all the planets are lined up. I actually agree with John's entire rant. I came here for the same thing a lot of other people are here for. There were holes in my business model that depended on other people to fill. I hate that. I don't mind out sourcing but I like to have practical working knowledge of every part of it. In the process I discovered additional income producing models I could adapt to my own style.
.
I could probably learn a bunch about cold calling from John. Its a weak area for me. I don't recall anyone saying a positive word about it here. I hate it. I wouldn't do it at all except that it happens to work. I try to allocate about the worst four hours every week to cold calling. My secret is to do it on Monday mornings and then I don't have it to look forward to all week.
.
All the talk about offline marketing in here nobody has ever had a good thread about getting by the gatekeepers. Several threads have been started only to be locked or deleted, including one by me. Fortunately "somebody" posted my exact OP in "another" forum and it was a great long running thread everyone learned from. (You can jump up and down about Mom and Pop businesses all day long but bigger businesses have bigger checkbooks.)
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There are a few other "taboo" subjects here but most of the information anybody could need to make a start online is right here, or in the War Room. The rest is out there somewhere for anybody who actually looks.

Thomas

I do believe, for the most part, any newcomer can come to the Warrior Forum and learn a thing or two about Internet Marketing. Alternatively, you can stumble upon your share of systems that simply do not work for you. It does not always mean the system is a failure; it could very well be that it was not the right system for you.

Being a teacher does not require you to be a specialist in any given field. You need only possess an abundance of knowledge others do not possess and wish to gain. If you prefer to hand that knowledge over to others - freely and without a monetary exchange, that is your God given right to do so.

If you prefer selling your knowledge to gain a profit, this too is acceptable. However, please bear in mind that if you intend to teach, give your students everything they need in order to complete the learning cycle. Please DO NOT sell them a $7 course and then spring it on them later that it is going to cost an additional $197 for a software package to complete their education.

I readily admit, these marketing ploys turn my stomach, build distrust, and make it harder for other professionals to attract new clients. The professionals, which truly help an individual succeed in business - whether that is online or off.

Tiffany Dow is such a person. I wish there were more Internet marketers like her!

On another note:

As I read this forum, I was flabbergasted at some of the responses being so haughty and delivered with such cynicism. I do not particularly care how much money you make in Internet Marketing or whether you are a teacher or a doer.

What I do care about is how you treat other people, especially newcomers who happen upon you for the first time - and the impression they walk away with... after reading your posts. While your posts may possess valid points of argument, there is no reason it needs to come across as a crude slap in the face. Honestly, I remember the crude delivery more than the actual point you were trying to make.

You may not agree with what people state here, and that is ok, but how does it make you any better than the OP when you treat him/her without respect as you deliver a response? I had to double check - am I really in the company of professionals? Where I come from, whether a person is a client, prospect, friend or newcomer - you do not need to deliver your communication with such malice in order to make a point.

The way you handle yourself in a forum, speaks volumes. In addition, in my opinion, if you hope to make a favorable impression, start first by checking your attitude at the door. I do not care for those who swear openly in public and I certainly do not care for people who deem it necessary to belittle someone else, even if the OP claims are outlandish.

If you truly want others to see you as being a professional, you first have to ACT like one. I was under the impression we were adults. I'd like to see more adult-like interaction and not feel as if I'm in the midst of people fighting over who gets to sit next to whom at the lunch table.

Thanks for reading.

[DELETED]

You know, there is a lump of truth in that.

However, you want courses that really reveal a secret then, you'll have to pay Good money for it.
pointer, sometimes invitation is private/exclusive.

So just learn from those who have done it!

The products, courses, coaching, etc...that are based on real-world experience will always rise to the top -- you can fool some o da people some o da time, but not everyone all of the time....

Jeff

im doing private coaching with a fellow Warrior and so far ive made a little over $200...its been slow BUT i have been making alot more than most people in under 60 days! so yes it depends on the IM coach but im def seeing good results from this particular coach. good luck Warriors!

That is so true. I wonder how many of the teachers actually make money by doing what they are selling? But yes I agree, creating your own product is about the best method to consistently make money online.

This thread has been rolling for 5 days now...

And I can imagine if the troll doesn't lose interest, it could roll for another 5 days...

So, I got my popcorn:






Now I can get back to my regularly scheduled activity:

What makes you so different from people who have been successful IM and AM who are doing the same?

When you do start teaching people yourself I bet you'll find out that this is true - but not because of the reasons that you are alluding to (crappy teachers).

Students are the same, whether it is MMO or learning how to lose weight. The failure rate is high which is no reflection on the teacher, but on the determination and motivation of the student.

You are in an IM forum so of course all you see is IM 'failures' and 'scams'. Go to a weight loss or relationship forum and you will see the same results.

Rach

ps - pass the popcorn

Woodsy1 i don't appreciate your comments. I am new here as well as to IM. I find lots of goodwill and help. You have been reading this too much --- salty droid. (google it if you don not know it).

He bashes frank kern and koenings two giants that I look up to for IM.

Now that I see this place he (salt droid) should take on CDarklock and E Brian Rose. I wonder if he (salty droid) could do anything to them? They will likely crush his face to bits. E. Brain Rose and CDarklock probably would not give an afterthought to him. too easy to beat him.

Please just don;t come here woodsy1. There is money to be made through marketing on how to market and many other things. You can make money online no matter what they say.

[DELETED]

Totally agree but the same happens in most fields, most people is making money by selling " how to do secrets", most of them are just a scam from my point of view.

Ok i forgot to add this fantastic anologie to the other post.

so a guy reads an ad that says

"hey! i can show you how to make $500 bucks a day stuffing envelopes."

cool.

"just send me $14.95 and a SASE and I'll immediately send you the info on how to make $500 per day stuffing envelopes."

done and done.

a few weeks later the guy gets a letter.

the letter reads,

"Ok. Here's how to do make $500 per day stuffing envelopes.

step one: place ads in a magazine or newspapers. use this template. set the price low. around $14.95

step two: when the letters come in, send them a copy of this letter (the one in your hand)"

woodsy1 -- i think you have disappeared now -- but that's kind of like IM.

I tell you how to make money, then show you how to do it using exactly the same method that brought you to me. See? Been done for ages and ages. Nothing wrong with it.

when the person who sent away for the secret to making $500 per day stuffing envelopes gets the secret he/she paid $14.95 for they react in one of two ways:

1. dammit what a freaking scam. effin' a hole.
2. yeehaw. i'm gonna make me some money telling others how to make $500 per day stuffing enevelopes

which camp are you in woodsy1? (if you are around which it seems that you are not)

Yeah I agree I promote info to teach people how to create a work from home business and its a excellent field to promote.

Well I personally know Internet Marketerer who never had any Teaching secrets WSO's or any stuff like that..but depend totally on IM for their living.

So, what have I missed? Have we resolved the issue?

I got to admit this was a very interesting thread to read what I didn't understand was

the fact that woodsy1 has been marketing since 1999

but does not know why most prices end in 7 :/

Oh well still a very good read learned a lot

One thing about us IMers is that we are always learning :-)

This is laughable.

People need to realize that there's a lot more going on out there than "IM".

The top guys in "IM" make chump change compared to middle-ground performers in the larger markets.

Go get an account at KeywordSpy.com and browse through the top-spending advertisers.

Who's spending $100,000+ per day on PPC?

Must be the "Teachers", right?

-Chris

Always conduct due dilligence before buying and stay away from marketers that hide their identity.

Make sure do your homework before buying and if the seller fails to reveal his or her identity, don't biy.

First, you can only teach when you really know.

Otherwise, people will catch you and see that you are a fraud.

It's not bad to teach and yes, it makes a lot of money but
those who really profit from it are the ones who initially
had to go through the stuff themselves or paid a lot to
learn from mentors themselves to learn things the fast way.

Those who teach without knowing may get away for a while
but sooner or later, they're going to get busted.

[DELETED]

A ton load of people make their living from teaching what
they are doing or no longer do. All the "how to" books
in stores?

And some people ENJOY teaching and helping others. This
doesn't mean that there aren't unqualified teachers but all
teachers cannot be branded with the same iron.

For sure some marketers are guilty of selling their secrets
AFTER they stop working using evidence from WHEN the
secrets were working. I've been the victim of that but
I also learn from a lot of good people.

-Ray Edwards

[DELETED]

And so another mutant zombie thread rises from the grave.

[DELETED]

there are moments when the student surpasses the teacher...

I remember I went to a man who made $300 million for various companies and is now retired. I mentioned a prominent guru and sent him to the website. He immediately replied to me and ask, why is he selling "how to" material.

Conclusion: I am torn.

Someone had to say it :-)