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Philosophical POV's - Working the system vs. gaming the system...

by TimothyW
6 replies
I'm not trying to sound all prudish here (ok, maybe I am). I buy a lot of wso's, and I keep seeing the same philosophical differences. You can see it the minute you open the folder.

1) These kinds of marketing methods have "contextual ethics." They GAME the system, without regard for laying waste to the marketEE's innocence, in the process. In these marketers' minds, there's no harm in (basically) DUPING the consumer, in the process of getting the bux. But, here's the thing, when you read these methods, you get the distinct impression that the auther HAS NO IDEA he/she is crossing into the red zone. Or if they are aware, it doesn't produce remorse -- just a smirk.

2) This other kind of marketer DOES pay attention to "true north" ethics. He/she is involved with WORKING the system. Here too, you can tell THIS attitude instantly upon reading the methods.

Even though I feel the #1 kind of marketer is in the wrong, there would be no sense in pointing it out, because they DO NOT have any idea they are involved in what amounts to (imo) con-artistry. They just BULLDOZE right along, completely unaware.

Anyone else get these differing inner, philosophical "twinges" when learing about the various IMing meothds out there?

The difference between WORKING the system, and GAMING the system.

After buying wso's, I often realize what they are advocating doing, and think to myself, "You want me to do WHAT!?! You're kidding, right?!?"

Some people get the differences, and (I guess) some people don't. It's as simple (and disappointing) as that.

Cheers.

-- TW

PS: Don't get me wrong there are MANY, MANY wso's that are totally ethics-approved! What gets me is, the ones that I find questionable are authored by VERY INTELLIGENT people, who seemingly have NO IDEA they are crossing the line! THAT'S the real puzzler!

PPS: Let me clarify -- I'm saying the METHODS in the wso's in question can sometimes be born of dubious ethics. I'm not saying these marketers are duping us warriors -- I'm saying the methods they show in the wso's sometimes cross the line (imo!!!).
#gaming #philosophical #pov #system #working
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    And we all just LOVE the dipsh**s that taught people it was a good idea to spam forums.
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    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Again, this isn't about concern for warriors buying wso's. This is about what some of these methods do to the public, if/when the methods are implemented. The difference between working the system + gaming the system. Also, let me stress, the vast majority of wso's are NOT like this! They are 95% FINE!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hey Tim,

    Yes - there are a LOT of people who approach IM with a mindset of "get what you can from gaming the system" and many of them think that making money from telling others to do the same is 'the next level' in the same game.

    They don't care whether they trash the system they're abusing and they don't care if the advice they give others can get them in deep water - it's all about gaming the system and people for as long as they can until the tap runs dry.

    They often tend to say things like "it's all just a numbers game" and proceed to tell people to spam websites/forums etc.

    While they're in that mindset it's hard for them to step back and see the whole picture. A bit like a drug addict who looks at the next score as a good thing and doesn't see the longer term impact of that short term decision.

    We all get carried away with things every now and again, but for many it's a mindset that has a strong grip and stepping out of it requires a big problem or loss of earnings before they'll take another look at what their options are.

    Andy
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Thanks Andy. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one. Again, what gets me is (as you agree), these people are very intelligent, but they don't seem to see the ethical lines they are crossing! THAT'S the part that kills me. I'd almost have more respect for them if they WOULD see the line + still cross it!!

    Cheers.

    PS: It's funny to see these google slaps -- and the reactions to them. The big G is forever trying to keep it real + "improve the customer experience," and then some IMers say, "HEY! If they do THAT (close the loopholes I've managed to discover), how'my gonna make my $$?!?! I can't be havin' no 'improved customer experience!'" It's like a never ending cat + mouse game. The "G-Men" against the "GAMERZ."
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post


      PS: It's funny to see these google slaps -- and the reactions to them. The big G is forever trying to keep it real + "improve the customer experience," and then some IMers say, "HEY! If they do THAT (close the loopholes I've managed to discover), how'my gonna make my $$?!?! I can't be havin' no 'improved customer experience!'" It's like a never ending cat + mouse game. The "G-Men" against the "GAMERZ."
      Absolutely!

      I still find it crazy sometimes that people behave like victims when other businesses change their models, because the problem isn't that the other company changed the way it behaves, it's that they made themselves reliant on it in the first place.

      There are so many ways to build a solid and diverse income that building a business that relies almost completely on someone else or some other business is just asking for trouble. But then to behave like you've been abused when it happens just doesn't add up.

      But then - we're talking about people here and we are a funny species

      I'm sure I've had my share of craziness in the past. Like when splitting up with a girlfriend - you'd think that once at least one of you doesn't want to be with the other, you would both say "well, it doesn't make sense to want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you" and just get on with life, but the stupid juice starts flowing and you try to cling on to something you actually know is not what you want.

      I guess the "IM dream" is like that for people.

      The other thing to remember is - many people get into IM with zero previous experience of success in anything, and even zero business experience, so they may not have developed any habits around time management, focused working or strategic thinking and planning.

      So is it really any surprise that people seem to do crazy things?

      In their world it makes sense.

      Andy
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    • Profile picture of the author Adam Richards
      Originally Posted by TimothyW View Post

      Again, what gets me is (as you agree), these people are very intelligent, but they don't seem to see the ethical lines they are crossing! THAT'S the part that kills me. I'd almost have more respect for them if they WOULD see the line + still cross it!!
      I think the bigger problem is that they just don't believe that such an ethical line exists.

      Either that, or they see customers as abstractions - not really people, just numbers. The question of their well-being just never comes into question, because why would it?

      If you can't recognize that "visits" to your site actually means "people viewing your site" and not some sort of statistical abstraction, how are you supposed to be concerned with your visitors?

      I agree with you whole-heartedly. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the phrase "well, look. If I don't dupe them, someone else will, so why not?". It's kind of scary.

      You say that to yourself enough and eventually it's just not an issue...

      PS: It's funny to see these google slaps -- and the reactions to them. The big G is forever trying to keep it real + "improve the customer experience," and then some IMers say, "HEY! If they do THAT (close the loopholes I've managed to discover), how'my gonna make my $$?!?! I can't be havin' no 'improved customer experience!'" It's like a never ending cat + mouse game. The "G-Men" against the "GAMERZ."
      Haha spot on. I think it's fine to "game" Google, but you definitely don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, and it should really be no surprise if your site gets shot down.
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