41 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
41 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

Copywrite Infringment on clients website? WTF? Has this happened to anyone else?

by Matt Lee
32 replies
About 4 months ago, one of my clients contacted me to build a basic 5 page website for him. Which I paid a WARRIOR member to build.

Today I got an email from my client stating that he received a certified letter from Masterfile claiming that 4 of the images used on his website are property of Masterfile and he's currently in copyright infringement and he owes them $8820 for the images!

Understandably my client is PISSED! I am PISSED & never had to deal with this before. My understanding with the designer was that the images were PAID for and unfortunately for me he lives in India & have no idea how I would legally hold him accountable.

Apparently this company developed a script that searches the internet for their images and if it finds an image in violation it automatically sends out a letter to the owner of the website.

Has anyone dealt with this before? I did some research and read that in some other cases, people sent cease and desist letters, and others have settled for a significantly lower amount. If I knew that the images were not paid for I would never have uploaded the site or even used that designer for that matter.

Any advice would be greatly appreciate from people that have experience in this matter.
#clients #copywrite #happened #infringment #website #wtf
  • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
    Yet another reason to really check out anybody you outsource to, especially from another country. I would suggest contacting a lawyer since this is a legal matter and finding out what your rights are, what your clients rights are, and what you can do.

    Benjamin Ehinger
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883587].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Prosecutor
    Lawyer up. Here is what typically happens, your attorney will review the circumstances and reply that the damage claims are exaggerated and due to the nature of this type of litigation, he'll basically cut your 'fine' in half.

    Lesson learned.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883592].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
      Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger View Post

      Yet another reason to really check out anybody you outsource to, especially from another country. I would suggest contacting a lawyer since this is a legal matter and finding out what your rights are, what your clients rights are, and what you can do.

      Benjamin Ehinger
      Originally Posted by Prosecutor View Post

      Lawyer up. Here is what typically happens, your attorney will review the circumstances and reply that the damage claims are exaggerated and due to the nature of this type of litigation, he'll basically cut your 'fine' in half.

      Lesson learned.
      Thanks for your input. Lesson definitely learned. Although I still question the validity of this claim from Masterfile. I just got off the phone with the service that hosts my clients site, and they said that Masterfile sent them the same letter and invoice just for hosting their images on his server!?!? Is this even possible? That's like suing godaddy.com. How can try to get paid 2 times from one copyright infringement? I honestly think these guys send out threatening letters to scare people into paying them an absorbent amount of money.
      Signature
      "One of the Most Successful Offline WSO's Ever!
      Get More High $$$ Clients with this Small Business Marketing PLR Magazine
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883623].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Masterfile has been online with images for a lot of years. Not exactly a fly by night company and probably strict about enforcement as they manage images for others and the photographer, for example, gets a royalty for every license purchased.

        If you did question the designer and he claimed purchase of the rights - he may be able to provide you with proof. It's something that should be standard when you hire a site built or a header made - just to protect yourself.

        Getting your own images to add is an even better idea.

        Get a lawyer - it's the only answer that makes sense. Good luck.
        Signature
        Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
        ***
        Live life like someone left the gate open
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883688].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
      Originally Posted by Prosecutor View Post

      Lawyer up. Here is what typically happens, your attorney will review the circumstances and reply that the damage claims are exaggerated and due to the nature of this type of litigation, he'll basically cut your 'fine' in half.

      Lesson learned.
      I think a lawyer can make better than half over $8000 for 4 images I am sure that designer didn't steal their logo
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883653].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AlexR
    One of the drawbacks of outsourcing...

    What I do when I outsource is to ask the developer what images he/she wants to use and purchase them myself. That way I own the image and know that it is properly licensed for the purpose it was selected for, and neither I nor any of my clients are going to get hammered for image copyright infringement.

    It's always good policy to purchase whatever is needed yourself...articles, images, music. etc. This way they become YOURS to use.

    Alex
    Signature

    Sig released on parole.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883644].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    I would tend to think that if you promptly remove the images, and let them know you were not aware there was a problem, they will likely drop their claim. It wouldn't hurt to let them know the identity and location of the designer, as that would be the person that they would need to contact concerning the claim.

    And think about it for a second...

    How often do you think sites who allow uploads of images, videos and music have copyright material uploaded without their knowledge? This is not a unique situation, and there something called DMCA. They must first request removal, and then they can possibly sue for damages if you fail to comply.

    But if you remove the content, I think you are going to be pretty safe.
    Signature
    It is okay to contact me! I have been developing software since 1999, creating many popular products like phpLD.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883712].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      They must first request removal, and then they can possibly sue for damages if you fail to comply.
      I've never seen that "first request" restriction anywhere - not sure that's the case.

      There's an interesting story from someone who went through this same problem - might shed some light on it

      Legal Lesson Learned: Copywriter Pays $4,000 for $10 Photo | Webcopyplus Web Copywriter Blog
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      Live life like someone left the gate open
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883766].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
      Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

      I would tend to think that if you promptly remove the images, and let them know you were not aware there was a problem, they will likely drop their claim. It wouldn't hurt to let them know the identity and location of the designer, as that would be the person that they would need to contact concerning the claim.

      And think about it for a second...

      How often do you think sites who allow uploads of images, videos and music have copyright material uploaded without their knowledge? This is not a unique situation, and there something called DMCA. They must first request removal, and then they can possibly sue for damages if you fail to comply.

      But if you remove the content, I think you are going to be pretty safe.
      I took the site offline right after I found out just to play it safe. I feel the same way you do. I'm hoping they will be understanding, but who knows.
      Signature
      "One of the Most Successful Offline WSO's Ever!
      Get More High $$$ Clients with this Small Business Marketing PLR Magazine
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883795].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Mr Marketer View Post

        I took the site offline right after I found out just to play it safe. I feel the same way you do. I'm hoping they will be understanding, but who knows.
        They won't. They're copying the "Getty Demand Letter" model because they figure if Getty is making money by doing this, they'll give it a shot. I googled Masterfile demand letter

        The Stock Photo Industry’s Massive Copyright Campaign
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883879].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          They won't. They're copying the "Getty Demand Letter" model because they figure if Getty is making money by doing this, they'll give it a shot. I googled Masterfile demand letter

          The Stock Photo Industry’s Massive Copyright Campaign

          Thanks for your input, I Googled the "Getty Demand Letter" and I found many people like this guy fighting back and refusing to give in to what seems like virtual extortion in some cases.
          Signature
          "One of the Most Successful Offline WSO's Ever!
          Get More High $$$ Clients with this Small Business Marketing PLR Magazine
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4883958].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Mr Marketer View Post

            Thanks for your input, I Googled the "Getty Demand Letter" and I found many people like this guy fighting back and refusing to give in to what seems like virtual extortion in some cases.
            Yeah ... I read a lot of posts from people who got the same demand letter as you. There's a pattern. There's a pattern of sending a round of letters, hiring a collection agency to harass you, even when no judgement has been made, and then dropping the cases altogether if it appears that it will cost them to go to court.

            After reading what I read, I would not pay a dime. I would let it go to the end result and see how it played out. Getty and several other companies are all doing this and they are bilking it for all they can get, but mostly by using scare tactics rather than getting judgements in court.

            Lesson to be taken from it ... you should document every image on a spreadsheet along with your purchase sheet, whether your client is in a hurry or not. If you outsource, demand that the person you hire documents every image and the purchase receipt on a spreadsheet. This is standard operations in the web design business.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4885038].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              Yeah ... I read a lot of posts from people who got the same demand letter as you. There's a pattern. There's a pattern of sending a round of letters, hiring a collection agency to harass you, even when no judgement has been made, and then dropping the cases altogether if it appears that it will cost them to go to court.

              After reading what I read, I would not pay a dime. I would let it go to the end result and see how it played out. Getty and several other companies are all doing this and they are bilking it for all they can get, but mostly by using scare tactics rather than getting judgements in court.

              Lesson to be taken from it ... you should document every image on a spreadsheet along with your purchase sheet, whether your client is in a hurry or not. If you outsource, demand that the person you hire documents every image and the purchase receipt on a spreadsheet. This is standard operations in the web design business.
              Totally agreed.
              Signature
              "One of the Most Successful Offline WSO's Ever!
              Get More High $$$ Clients with this Small Business Marketing PLR Magazine
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4885995].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
      Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

      I would tend to think that if you promptly remove the images, and let them know you were not aware there was a problem, they will likely drop their claim. It wouldn't hurt to let them know the identity and location of the designer, as that would be the person that they would need to contact concerning the claim.

      And think about it for a second...

      How often do you think sites who allow uploads of images, videos and music have copyright material uploaded without their knowledge? This is not a unique situation, and there something called DMCA. They must first request removal, and then they can possibly sue for damages if you fail to comply.

      But if you remove the content, I think you are going to be pretty safe.
      This. I'm pretty sure they must send you a DMCA notice from requesting removal of the images before sending you a fine for illegally using their images.

      Don't take this as legal advice but from my experience, if you remove the images and send them a nice letter saying "Sorry, I was not aware" and explain the situation thoroughly along with supplying the designers contact info; they'll probably let you go. If they don't then contact a lawyer as for these types of situations lawyers will definitely be able to find some sort of loophole.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4902264].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by Ben Gordon View Post

        This. I'm pretty sure they must send you a DMCA notice from requesting removal of the images before sending you a fine for illegally using their images.
        The DMCA does require a specified notice, but only for 'online service providers'. Not for direct infringers.

        Example: You post a copyrighted photo on the Warrior Forum.

        The owner of the photo can immediately sue you for copyright infringement.

        However, the owner of the photo must first send a DMCA notice to the forum to give it an opportunity to remove the photo.

        An obvious intent is to protect owners of online properties from liability caused by the actions of users and others.

        There is also no "fine." There can be damages proven at trial for copyright infringement.

        What you see in the letters is an offer to settle the amount of damages that might be proven without everyone needing to spend the time and expense of a lawsuit to find out what, if any, damages are to be awarded.

        But it is not a fine and not something you owe just because someone sends a letter.

        .
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4902479].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    You need to find out if the image was registered with the US Copyright Office. It makes a huge difference. It could be the difference between telling them: good luck with paying an attorney and trying to prove your damages - or - trying to resolve this ASAP.

    There's another lesson here. If YOU are contracted to build a website then YOU build it and not outsource it on the cheap to India.

    This problem arises all the time. The fact is, many in other countries will cheap out (just like you did) knowing they are immune from legal issues and you will be left holding the bag.

    Problematically, what in the world were you doing contracting out images without obtaining the original source of the image and getting proof of purchase?

    How could "you" build a website without providing that basic information to your client?

    .
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4884138].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Matt Lee
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      You need to find out if the image was registered with the US Copyright Office. It makes a huge difference. It could be the difference between telling them: good luck with paying an attorney and trying to prove your damages - or - trying to resolve this ASAP.

      There's another lesson here. If YOU are contracted to build a website then YOU build it and not outsource it on the cheap to India.

      This problem arises all the time. The fact is, many in other countries will cheap out (just like you did) knowing they are immune from legal issues and you will be left holding the bag.

      Problematically, what in the world were you doing contracting out images without obtaining the original source of the image and getting proof of purchase?

      How could "you" build a website without providing that basic information to your client?

      .
      I appreciate your comments. I actually have 2 designers that I employ full time, and we buy all of our images. This particular client needed a site up asap, and my guys were working on other projects. So I paid one of the most reputable here on the WF. I've had stuff designed from the Warrior Forum before and had no problems. I include an image budget for each website. But you're right the responsibility falls on my shoulders - I trusted him when he said he purchased images.
      Signature
      "One of the Most Successful Offline WSO's Ever!
      Get More High $$$ Clients with this Small Business Marketing PLR Magazine
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4884441].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author stevenco
        Originally Posted by Mr Marketer View Post

        But you're right the responsibility falls on my shoulders - I trusted him when he said he purchased images.
        This is where the issue of usage rights can get complicated. He may have paid for rights to use the images. However it looks as if he did not have the authority to pass those rights to your client. In other words, the rights most likely were not transferable.

        And after a few minutes of research, Clause 8.3 in Masterfiles T&C reveals all. Definitely not transferable.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4885016].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author rosetrees
        Originally Posted by Mr Marketer View Post

        But you're right the responsibility falls on my shoulders - I trusted him when he said he purchased images.
        Just a thought. Have you contacted the designer to see if he can provide proof that he purchased the photos?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4886027].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author KimboJim
    I always thought a cease and desist letter had to be done first. I would ask a lawyer about that, because that's what is done when movies or other media are found, at least from what I have researched.
    Signature
    Ready for some great content at a low cost?
    PresentPLR Newest Pack: LED Grow Lights
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4884164].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Vlad Romanov
    You were hired to build a website and decided tO pass it down to someone else. You took a risk and in your case the situation has turned against you. No need to get angry or frustrated; talk to your designer, but I highly doubt you will be able to get anything out of him... Replacing the images is your only solution unless you want to pay the fees...
    Signature

    Website: http://vladromanov.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4886118].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      You have ONE piece of expert advice in this thread -from kindsvater.

      As I understand it, this problem puts your client at risk as he is the site owner. I'd save the tough guy stuff until I had my own legal advice. The letter may be the same, but this company is not Getty.

      kay
      Signature
      Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
      ***
      Live life like someone left the gate open
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4886211].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        How do you find out if copyright was registered for an image?

        You need to ask Masterfile as I presume that important detail was missing from their demand letter.

        The US Copyright Office home page at U.S. Copyright Office has a link near the top right of the page called 'Search Records.' There you can search for masterfile copyright filings.

        Note: you will not be able to see the actual images included with each registration.

        However, you can see the dates of each Masterfile registration. Either the company does not have new images to register, or it has gotten sloppy.

        If you happen to know how old the photos are you can look at the copyright registration dates to see the likelihood these were registered.


        Missing from the information on the thread is what the Warrior you worked with has to say.

        Can they show they purchased the images?

        It should be easy enough for them to forward an email or print a screenshot of their masterfile online account showing the purchase.

        I see the images on the masterfile.com website have a significant watermark.

        If your images do not have the watermark that would suggest the images were purchased.

        If you can tie-up the purchase issue that will dictate any response to masterfile.

        .
        Signature
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4887069].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    A friend of mine got whacked for $6,000 for using a Getty image. They are one of those companies that put a lot of effort into scouring the web looking for their images that have not been licensed. I think you can get an image from them for about $6 but if you use it without getting the license, they get $6,000.

    The only thing that makes sense here is to lawyer up. You are in over your head as this is a legal matter and no advice from a forum is going to be good enough. Hopefully the lawyer can get it done in an hour or two and it will not cost you a lot in lawyer fees. I am pretty sure they will save you more than they cost as they will see this as a scare tactic and be able to answer with the correct response to mitigate the damages.

    Good luck. Thanks for sharing this as I learned something from this thread that I had not thought about before. I am just glad I have legal on retainer to advise me on this type of thing. It is well worth the $27 it costs me each month. And that even includes identity theft protection.
    Signature

    Tim Pears

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4887200].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author AuPhalanx
    For more information, please see The Getty Images Settlement Demand Letter: Reporting on the Extortion Letter Scheme.

    Many stock photo places are sending these letters to folks even for as little as one image. And they're making "offers" to settle for grossly exaggerated fees.

    I hope this helps.

    All the BEST!

    Have fun ... Tony.
    Signature

    The Books You Need to Succeed:
    http://www.KallistiPublishing.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4902197].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CyberSucces
    Hi,

    Just got a GettyImages infringment letter from an image I had in one of my first site on line. This is a minisite template I've got from http://www.ecoverclick.com/ but the site don't exist anymore!

    I took the image out and decided to let it die.

    I suggest you do the same i.e. don't respond at all, just remove the image and leave it. I doubt they will insist. If they do insist, I will fight back like a mad person and will go thru the end of this F***** story. Getty Images own just about ALL the stock images on the web now so it is hard to avoid comming accross them. Arrrrhhh!!!!

    If I ever hear from them, I will keep you posted...
    Signature
    Mario Bruneau
    CyberSucces
    Learn piano tuning
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6895212].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author 67-17454
      I just got pinged by YouTube about a copyright notice for the audio (and I'm sure this extends to video snippets and images) I have on a video I made for a business. Seems Google has software that's crawling the videos and seeing if you swiped the sound.

      My customer is confused and wondering if I'm doing something shady. Having done over 350 videos for businesses, I have this hanging over me. Plus I have to explain that these people might be within their rights to place ads on the businesses YouTube channel. I'm assuming this is likely to become more common and just not on YouTube.

      I purchased the audio from Abby Lynch Footage Firm and have the agreement showing I have Royalty Free reuse rights. Turns out the copyright or license for the audio is handled through a business called Prolific Arts/BFM Digital. So I can use the audio Royalty Free, but they have the right to put ads next to my video.

      I contacted Abby Lynch and they said, basically, ain't nuthin they can do about it.

      "Your video, (####), may have content that is owned or licensed by BFM Digital, but it's still available on YouTube! In some cases, ads may appear next to it. This claim is not penalizing your account status."

      YouTube and BFM Digital - Royalty Free Music Library
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6899904].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    I had a similar issue earlier this year. Tip: do not use images found in website templates; I had a similar issue where the template company sold templates with apparently infringing photos.
    So nowadays I always just buy photos from istock or wherever so I've got a license / receipt for any images I use.

    lessons learned
    - don't outsource web design work to people who can't provide receipts of paid-for images
    - don't use images from common website templates; buy individual photos and use them from reputable royalty free places instead
    - don't assume that images (including icons!) that are bought in cheapie offers on the internet are licensed for resale; instead go and pay for each image yourself from big royalty free places, to ensure you have the rights to use it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6899965].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Alan
    I hope this raises the alarm bell for those reading this. If you are using anonymous outsourceers this could happen to you. If they are registered copyrights there is nothing you can do other than pay the money. I assume they are registered given the business model here. It would cost you way more in fees to fight this and like I said if they are registered you really don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning your case. Sorry
    Signature
    Crazy Cheap Hosting Get Hosting for less than $2 per month + Free Domain Name Registration. Get Free SEO, Blogging and Internet Marketing Tips from the Solo Blogger.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6900076].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I just read all of the responses here - and am left wondering one thing.

    Why the heck aren't people who use content, images, and sound from other sources reading up and understanding the laws about usage BEFORE they start using things?

    It really seems that if buying/using these mediums is part of your daily business, you would understand your need to know how the legalities work.

    You do not need to warn someone that they stole from you. Stolen goods are stolen goods. If you get a cease and desist, the people are being nice about it. Anyone can say "gee, I didn't know." That isn't an answer that often holds up legally.

    If you are going into business -- LEARN HOW to run that business. Just because you are online doesn't mean you entered the fabled land of free-for-all no responsibility or knowledge necessary.
    Signature

    Sal
    When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
    Beyond the Path

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6900549].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author virgiltu
    SCAM SCAM SCAM.

    Ok so here is how this work.

    Scammer looks only for new websites.

    Scammer pulls info from domain. Who is. Really simple.

    Scammer created Letter asking for money for 1000 websites.

    Victim pays money or settles after some time for 400$ or so.

    Scammer smiles and makes money.

    Where have you guys been? Are you guys really not aware of this?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[6900605].message }}

Trending Topics