Why The Blog Thread Was Removed And Not Brought Back...

by admin Administrator
80 replies
Alice Seba explained it perfectly in her post, so I stole it for this thread...

------------------
By Alice Seba:

I did NO reporting of this, but threads like that do make me wonder why they are allowed. I'm not talking about the resulting excitement and participation. I think it's great people are enjoying it, BUT a thread labeled as "Colleen's 30-Day Challenge" or "Rick's Big Prize Giveaway" or "Jane's Yada Yada" are self-serving and promotional.

It's Allen's forum. It's the Warrior Forum. Never in my wildest dreams would I think of posting a thread that gave me ownership over it (i.e. no "Alice's Knitting Contest" or anything like it). I don't know. It just seems like something someone shouldn't do in somebody else's virtual home.

Why is it self-promotional? Because it's done to build up traffic, gain a following and boost one's reputation in the forum. Why not just post a "30-Day Challenge", post all the details IN the thread and motivate one another that way?

That's just me. Just my perspective...I've been told I'm wrong before. :-)

Alice

-----------------------

What you don't see behind the scenes is that these type of threads, if successful, encourage others to do the same thing. Just take a moment to imagine that for a second and you will not have to ask about it anymore.

You can't allow 50 people to start threads that will remain on the front page day after day after day...

We deleted at least 30 posts, or more, along the same lines because of that thread. Truth is the blog thread should never have been allowed from the first day. Not because it was 'bad' or anything like that. But because of what it 'always' leads to in a big forum.

Those threads are for 'private' forums or forums set up for that specifically and nothing else.

So that's the deal. It was moderated out a second time and I asked the admins to leave it alone and let it stay out because of all the loonies coming out of the woodwork trying to copy it.

Allen
#back #blog #brought #removed #thread
  • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
    Sounds more than fair to me.

    I've seen so many of these "challenge" type posts I'm not even sure what you are referring to as the "blog thread", but whatever the case it's your forum to run as you see fit. Anyone that doesn't like it can leave.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
    You are the owner, I respect your views and your decision.

    And I think it's a good judgment too.
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Thanks for raising this issue Allen..

    Just recently I don't know what to report, I don't want you to think I'm some crazy report freak.. so I have been holding back on the reporting when I'm here, so it's good for you to give us some insight into what needs to stay and go


    Peace..

    Jay
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    Bare Murkage.........

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  • Profile picture of the author JCTunes
    Allen:

    I'm glad you came forward and explained why the thread was deleted. I'm sure a lot of us that were participating in the challenge just wanted to find out the reasoning behind the decision.

    There's enough information here for us to go on trying to make our first $1 by blogging or any other IM means. Time to go searching......
    Signature

    If there's a will, there's a way!

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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi,

      It's gone again. It wasn't me honest.
      Signature


      Roger Davis

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  • Profile picture of the author Louis Raven
    Good call, Allen.

    I love the "challenge".. "watch me" threads but understand the reactions of some (copying, self promotion) aren't good for a forum environment.

    I recently refrained from reporting a blatant "just go here to watch" spam thread because the author is.. well.. let's just say respected.

    But, regardles of the author if spam is spam, from now on I will report it as I now realise even if they're not directly selling something (off the bat) it can still be promotional and gathering followers IE SPAM.

    Louis
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    • Profile picture of the author Jen McVey
      I was participating in the challenge, so was disappointed to see it go. However many times it went. If nothing else, it got me motivated to post to my new blog daily.

      However, I can definitely see the self-promotion side of it too, and was quite surprised it stuck around as long as it did. Will be interested to see what, if any, plans are made to bring the Challenge and participants together OFF the Warrior Forum.
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      • Profile picture of the author JCTunes
        Originally Posted by Jen McVey View Post

        I was participating in the challenge, so was disappointed to see it go. However many times it went. If nothing else, it got me motivated to post to my new blog daily.

        However, I can definitely see the self-promotion side of it too, and was quite surprised it stuck around as long as it did. Will be interested to see what, if any, plans are made to bring the Challenge and participants together OFF the Warrior Forum.
        I'm with you on that one, Jen.
        Signature

        If there's a will, there's a way!

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      • Profile picture of the author thebrokenbox
        Originally Posted by Jen McVey View Post

        I was participating in the challenge, so was disappointed to see it go. However many times it went. If nothing else, it got me motivated to post to my new blog daily.

        However, I can definitely see the self-promotion side of it too, and was quite surprised it stuck around as long as it did. Will be interested to see what, if any, plans are made to bring the Challenge and participants together OFF the Warrior Forum.
        I hope so because I was actually still in the challenge and was really enjoying that thread. I hope that we can figure out something, it would be a shame to not finish the challenge, but I do see how it could be self promotion.
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
          Guys and gals,

          This happened in a previous thread and it's starting to happen here.

          Can we stop the finger-pointing ("you have no right to complain coz you do it, too!").

          Allen has given his explanation (which he didn't have to do) so let's move on.

          If you think something is too self-promotional report it but don't make a song and dance about it.

          Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author IMChick
    I absolutely agree that it doesn't belong here. It hurts my brain to constantly have to filter out all the self-promotion and nonsense while I'm reading on the news and events in the forum. Good call.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Kaye
    Well I got about two days into the challenge before slacking off myself...so I was out of the running before the first "nuking."
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    And the boss man has spoken

    Thanks for the clarification Allen. Your explanation definitely gives us all a better understanding of what is acceptable and unacceptable.

    Jeremy
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
        Isn't that what sig files are for? If anyone wants to create thes types of posts or blogs the best way to handle it would be to put it on your own site and have a link in your sig file. You won't get as many people as you would with a standard post but as long as it's in your sig file it's not breaking any rules.

        I believe regardless of intention if it is self promotional then it would fall within the boundry of breaking the forum rules if it was posted in the main forum as a post.

        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        I can understand the reasoning behind this decision. It could and most likely would end up being seriously abused. I am curious, though - is there a way to let people know about a challenge that would be carried out on their own blog without being seen as self-promotional?

        Not for blatant self-promotion but like in the case of Tiffany Dow's article marketing thread a while back. She wasn't selling anything to anyone in the thread but it was more of a motivation to both herself and anyone who wanted to boost their AM efforts. I enjoy this type of thing and like to see how people do with it and the results they end up with.

        I don't think I would ever see this type of thing if they weren't able to at least post an informational thread here to point people to wherever they are holding the actual challenge.
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author Eric Lorence
          It's easy enough to sign up for each said promoter's blog or newsletter.

          Other people need a chance to contribute as well.

          And there is no point in complaining about a thread being deleted. Threads like those are more about ego, and a complete waste of time.

          It takes about an hour to set up a personal forum...

          Just my 2
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        I'm glad to read that, I was wondering how long it would be before the whole front page was covered with them. There seem to be some people that look at high count threads and try to copy the tactic and this type of thing seemed to be increasing.

        Thanks Allen (and Alice)
        Signature

        nothing to see here.

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      • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        I am curious, though - is there a way to let people know about a challenge that would be carried out on their own blog without being seen as self-promotional?
        Use the WSO & Classified forums.. that's what they are
        there for.

        Use your sig to promote your offers or to drive traffic to
        your blog/challenge whatever.

        John
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        • Profile picture of the author ptone
          Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

          Use the WSO & Classified forums.. that's what they are
          there for.

          Use your sig to promote your offers or to drive traffic to
          your blog/challenge whatever.

          John
          I agree with John on this. Seems to me the WSO or Classifieds would be the PERFECT place to run a challenge. The thread can get as hot as it wants without sitting on the front page all the time (unless you pay to bump - which is cool, too).

          If you are using the forum as a way to build a reputation and a following, then $20 is a cheap way to do that and the benefits could be enormous.
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      • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        Not for blatant self-promotion but like in the case of Tiffany Dow's article marketing thread a while back. She wasn't selling anything to anyone in the thread but it was more of a motivation to both herself and anyone who wanted to boost their AM efforts. I enjoy this type of thing and like to see how people do with it and the results they end up with.
        I want to address this because my name was brought up in another thread as an example.

        I've been cringing behind my computer screen knowing I contributed to this onslaught - my deepest apologies, Allen. Before, I was thinking "I'm not selling a WSO, I have no info products on article marketing, so it's okay." But it wasn't.

        I did it before I saw a ton pop up and haven't done it since because it was deleted, brought back, etc. Made me feel awful. I didn't see a way to change the title to the thread once it was done and every time someone updated I wish they hadn't because I wanted it to just die off and go away - Allen only brought it back because so many people wanted it, but he DID warn then that it wasn't something he appreciated.

        Lesson learned and I can definitely see it how Alice/Allen described. I wasn't selling anything, no - but it WAS self branding in the works using my name, which is why I have tail tucked between my legs and am steering clear of these types of contest threads.

        You know what it reminds me of? Anyone a fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm? In season 1 there's a dinner party at Larry David's house and one of the guests comes in and sits at the head of the table and leads dinner. That's what I suspect Alice and Allen are getting at regarding this statement >>Never in my wildest dreams would I think of posting a thread that gave me ownership over it.<<

        I hope you know I would never intentionally step on your toes - too much respect for the forum. I ****ed up with no malice intended and now I won't - end of story

        Tiff
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

          I want to address this because my name was brought up in another thread as an example.

          I've been cringing behind my computer screen knowing I contributed to this onslaught - my deepest apologies, Allen. Before, I was thinking "I'm not selling a WSO, I have no info products on article marketing, so it's okay." But it wasn't.

          I did it before I saw a ton pop up and haven't done it since because it was deleted, brought back, etc. Made me feel awful. I didn't see a way to change the title to the thread once it was done and every time someone updated I wish they hadn't because I wanted it to just die off and go away - Allen only brought it back because so many people wanted it, but he DID warn then that it wasn't something he appreciated.

          Lesson learned and I can definitely see it how Alice/Allen described. I wasn't selling anything, no - but it WAS self branding in the works using my name, which is why I have tail tucked between my legs and am steering clear of these types of contest threads.

          You know what it reminds me of? Anyone a fan of Curb Your Enthusiasm? In season 1 there's a dinner party at Larry David's house and one of the guests comes in and sits at the head of the table and leads dinner. That's what I suspect Alice and Allen are getting at regarding this statement >>Never in my wildest dreams would I think of posting a thread that gave me ownership over it.<<

          I hope you know I would never intentionally step on your toes - too much respect for the forum. I ****ed up with no malice intended and now I won't - end of story

          Tiff

          Tiff, don't beat yourself up over this. You've got nothing on me when it
          comes to ****ing up. I've learned some valuable lessons as well these
          past few weeks and I too am going to walk a very narrow line from hereon
          in.

          And maybe if we all set that kind of example, we'll soon see the day where
          the violating threads and the ones complaining about them being gone, are
          history.

          One can only hope.
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  • Profile picture of the author Oland
    I concur.

    [What do you mean I'm not allowed to post one liners? - Ok, I'll add some more]

    Thank you for a great forum, Allen!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    What about Pearson's challange to earn a dollar in ten weeks from the comfort of his bed lol

    To be honest his thread underlined it all perfectly

    Cheers
    Kim
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    These type of threads prompted me to write a blog post about how I felt about a couple of them...

    http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/al...watch-out.html

    Basically, if you are going to lead people down a path, make sure it's not a path to bankruptcy while you line your pockets with thier hopes and dreams.

    AL
    Signature
    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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    • Profile picture of the author Oland
      Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

      These type of threads prompted me to write a blog post about how I felt about a couple of them...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/al...watch-out.html

      Basically, if you are going to lead people down a path, make sure it's not a path to bankruptcy while you line your pockets with thier hopes and dreams.

      AL
      Being on the subject of removing promotional threads I find it interresting that you're referring to a self promoting blog post. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
        Originally Posted by Oland View Post

        Being on the subject of removing promotional threads I find it interresting that you're referring to a self promoting blog post. :rolleyes:
        DOH!

        In all seriousness, read it again, the blog post never mentions me or my product or my services. It doesn't even hint at me or my stuff.

        Self promotion, in my book, is when these idiots come in here and start posting links to their frickin sales pages right in the middle of a thread...or blatantly saying that the answer to all of this can be found in their WSO...or that the absolute best answers for their problems can be found in their membership site...or hijacking a thread by turning it into a 3 page sales letter for their ebook, and then saying that they are only trying to help.

        It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize when limits are being exceeded.

        AL
        Signature
        Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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        • Profile picture of the author Oland
          Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

          DOH!

          In all seriousness, read it again, the blog post never mentions me or my product or my services. It doesn't even hint at me or my stuff.

          Self promotion, in my book, is when these idiots come in here and start posting links to their frickin sales pages right in the middle of a thread...or blatantly saying that the answer to all of this can be found in their WSO...or hijacking a thread by turning it into a 3 page sales letter for their stuff, and then saying that they are only trying to help.

          It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize when you are pushing the limits.

          AL
          Allen, I call it as I see it. I really don't want to argue with you.
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          • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
            Originally Posted by Oland View Post

            Allen, I call it as I see it. I really don't want to argue with you.
            And I tell it like it is, which is what I did in the blog post, so if you don't want to argue...dont. I've spent a long time doing what I can to protect people from scammers like this and trying to pick up pieces left over from their wake.

            But it's not about you or me, Oland.

            It's simple, really. People come here and create these "watch me" threads and end up selling a bunch of crap and that brings with it the potential to ruin people's businesses (and lives). And that ticks me off because I've seen what can happen many times over.

            Please forgive me if I seem too passionate about it.

            There are those that are genuine, like Tiff's, but lately they've mostly been for self-promotion and pre-selling.

            Thanks,
            AL
            Signature
            Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
      Originally Posted by Allen Graves View Post

      These type of threads prompted me to write a blog post about how I felt about a couple of them...

      http://www.warriorforum.com/blogs/al...watch-out.html

      Basically, if you are going to lead people down a path, make sure it's not a path to bankruptcy while you line your pockets with thier hopes and dreams.

      AL
      Al, dude,

      With all due respect...and believe me, I'm FULL of respect for you, but I think you're wrong in this instance...as long as this instance relates to the OP's mention of THAT dead thread!

      Keeping up? Good.

      Alls I wanted to say was I disagree with the quoted quote I quoted you about.

      We ain't all sheep.

      Steve
      Signature

      Not promoting right now

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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    Allen,

    The copycats ruined a perfectly good, nay inspirational, thread (at least for all those involved).

    Hey, but it's your gig, and your say. Thanks for taking the time to answer.

    Kind regards,
    Steve
    Signature

    Not promoting right now

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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Thanks Steve,

    I blanketed the entire thing. Apologies all around.

    I just hate seeing people get ripped off from those OTHER threads.

    AL
    Signature
    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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  • Profile picture of the author ECS Dave
    I have a question...

    If Colleen had paid the fee to post
    Colleen Slater's 30 Day Blog Challenge
    in the classified ad section would
    it have been allowed?

    Be Well!
    ECS Dave
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    • Profile picture of the author Michelle Adams
      Thanks for the explanation Allen. I'm new to the forum and am taking part in the challenge but couldn't understand why the thread got deleted. Now I do understand it fully, thank you.
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    • Profile picture of the author admin
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by ECS Dave View Post

      I have a question...

      If Colleen had paid the fee to post
      Colleen Slater's 30 Day Blog Challenge
      in the classified ad section would
      it have been allowed?

      Be Well!
      ECS Dave

      You could sell a puppy in the classified section, so yes, it would have been ok. Come to think about it, she's free to have us move it there if she'd like.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Allen,
        You could sell a puppy in the classified section
        Really? Cool.

        Wait... I don't have a puppy. I have a cat named Dumbass, though. Does that count?

        Anyway, on a useful note... I had never thought of using the classifieds in that way. (Contests/follow along/etc threads, that is.) How do you miss something that obvious?


        Paul

        PS: Really. That's his name. Guests come over, I call the cat, and when the guests answer, I say, "Not you. The other Dumbass."

        Hours of fun.
        Signature
        .
        Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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      • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
        Hey shkad14,

        Why is the "$4500 Case Study" thread still up then? This guy had a WSO in his sig before he ever had a single response. That was the most blatent attempt as self promotion I have seen on WF. His thread is about how wonderful public domains are, and he is promoting a WSO, not only in his sig, but also within some of his posts as well.
        If the thread is as bad as you claim, why don't you report the thread as people did with Collen's? Just a thought ...


        Collen,

        Kay's right, you reply was a good one. Lesson learned.

        Seriously, peoplefoul all the time around here, but once they figure out, they are better members. Hope your blog challenge is doing well with the new move. Btw, I bet they have more freedom to post on your site, plus you get the direct traffic.


        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

        Can I sell Paul Myers? I can throw a John Taylor in as a bonus.
        Lol Thomas,

        Who in the devil will buy a redneck??
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      • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
        Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

        Can I sell Paul Myers? I can throw a John Taylor in as a bonus.
        You couldn't afford either of us, but as a package? Priceless.
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        • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
          Excellent points here Louis, and that is why I won't comment on it again. The main point here is that I took the most important parts and created a .pdf which is both in the freebies section and wso section.

          Originally Posted by Louis Raven View Post

          You had a great thread thread but if your's is re-instated, Allen will be bombarded with "let me let me" PM's. Also, at what point should they be locked?

          Louis
          Another good one, funny as usual, Steve.

          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          If you've contributed to the forum discussion and your thread became popular enough to be deleted, consider it a compliment.

          Warped way of looking at it?

          Maybe, but it sure beats getting upset over it.
          I like this one too

          Originally Posted by jjpmarketing View Post

          I am officially a Warrior. My thread got deleted.
          TomG.
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      • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
        Originally Posted by admin View Post

        You could sell a puppy in the classified section, so yes, it would have been ok. Come to think about it, she's free to have us move it there if she'd like.
        That might actually be good for the classifieds section. It will draw more attention to it. Would benefit folks who post ads out in no-mans land... er.. I mean the classified section. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author Bryan Kumar
    It's Allen's forum. It's the Warrior Forum. Never in my wildest dreams would I think of posting a thread that gave me ownership over it (i.e. no "Alice's Knitting Contest" or anything like it). I don't know. It just seems like something someone shouldn't do in somebody else's virtual home.
    It certainly reveals a whole lot about the people who do this (walking into somebody else's home and posting up a huge banner promoting themselves. Try doing that inside someone's real home and see what happens.)

    Everytime I see posts like those, my trigger finger starts itching. (It's a good thing I have great self control. lol) Maybe the intention behind the post was good. But, the method is just bad, in my opinion.

    I'm glad we're putting an end to this stuff.

    Bryan
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  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    To be honest about it Allen, I've never understood why people don't post these challenges as announcements either in the WSO section or Classifieds, and then have everyone that is participating go and post to their blog or whatnot. Seems to me they'd get their traffic, particpants get the info they seek from other particpants, and the entire party has a great time. The best part is that they wouldn't be encouraging other posters to post similar threads here in the Main discussion forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author 60MinuteAffiliate
    Hello Allen and other warrior members,

    I'd like to apologise for having clearly done the wrong thing with my 30 day blog challenge, though that wasn't evident to me at the beginning. No disrespect was intended Allen and I hope I've not offended you in any way. I value the warrior forum and the warriors in it immensely and have done so for many years.

    I appreciate everyone's feedback and comments in this regard and I join everyone in being thankful for having this issue clarified for myself and all warriors.

    I'd like to thank everyone who is participating in the challenge also and for moving over to a challenge forum on one of my sites, which obviously in hindsight is the place I should have put it in the first place.

    Once again, many apologies and I wish you all a wonderful 2009.

    Kind regards

    Colleen
    Signature

    Want To Learn How To Make 7K A Month In Minutes A Day?

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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Colleen -

      What a classy reply! No complaint, no angst or anger - just a businesslike approach.

      kay
      Signature

      Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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  • Why is the "$4500 Case Study" thread still up then? This guy had a WSO in his sig before he ever had a single response. That was the most blatent attempt as self promotion I have seen on WF. His thread is about how wonderful public domains are, and he is promoting a WSO, not only in his sig, but also within some of his posts as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Hunter
    Does anyone know why Kneb's very knowledgeable thread about public domain work was removed?

    Also, are we now saying that no kind of forum marketing can take place on a forum full of marketers? LOL!! I mean, come on.

    Not trying to be disrespectful in anyway, just curious as to where the lines are drawn, so I thought that I'd ask and not test the boundaries.
    Signature

    Ok, sure. You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/Chris_Hunter ;)

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    • Profile picture of the author ic7
      Ok, if someone creates a very useful thread and at the end of their post says, "Check my sig for more info." And in their sig is a link to their related WSO...

      ...is this out of line?

      I'm trying to find the exact boundaries. For me, if someone gives great info in a post, I want to check out their WSO on that same topic.

      Thanks,

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Hunter
        Originally Posted by ic7 View Post

        Ok, if someone creates a very useful thread and at the end of their post says, "Check my sig for more info." And in their sig is a link to their related WSO...

        ...is this out of line?

        I'm trying to find the exact boundaries. For me, if someone gives great info in a post, I want to check out their WSO on that same topic.

        Thanks,

        Paul
        Paul, same for me.
        Signature

        Ok, sure. You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/Chris_Hunter ;)

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      • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
        Originally Posted by ic7 View Post

        Ok, if someone creates a very useful thread and at the end of their post says, "Check my sig for more info." And in their sig is a link to their related WSO...

        ...is this out of line?

        I'm trying to find the exact boundaries. For me, if someone gives great info in a post, I want to check out their WSO on that same topic.

        Thanks,

        Paul
        That's a difficult one.

        If that happened the question I would ask is

        "Which came first? The WSO or the thread?"

        And it's hard to know the answer to that because we can't read the OP's mind. It's a judgement call. If a Warrior is not very active and then suddenly starts a thread linked to a WSO I would be suspicious.

        That could suggest they were not 'giving freely' to the forum but only posting for their own benefit. Yes, people would still benefit from the post but it's a poisoned chalice.

        Related to this is the integrity of the post. If my post were designed to promote a WSO, wouldn't I be just a little bit tempted to embellish things a little?

        It's kind of an unwritten rule that you don't keep drawing attention to your sig file. In a sense, it's not necessary. If you make good posts people will check you out anyway.

        Having said all that, Jason Moffat was commenting on how he abandoned an idea for a blog project for Warriors because he got flak from people who thought it was pure self-promotion.

        We can't know people's intentions. We can only make an educated guess based on our experience and knowledge of the person concerned.

        And, if we are not sure, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

        Martin
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        • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
          Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post


          It's kind of an unwritten rule that you don't keep drawing attention to your sig file. In a sense, it's not necessary. If you make good posts people will check you out anyway.
          Martin,

          In my opinion that part of your response nailed it.

          John
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          • Profile picture of the author ic7
            And, if we are not sure, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.
            Thanks, Martin. You make some good points. For me, as long as I get good info, I don't care about anything else. I've picked great info out of ebooks filled with extra junk. I just strip out the good stuff and keep rolling.

            I would rather have the poster tell me directly about his WSO. Of course, if the info is weak I will never make it to his sig. But as you say, it's a judgement call.

            Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

          That's a difficult one.

          If that happened the question I would ask is

          "Which came first? The WSO or the thread?"

          And it's hard to know the answer to that because we can't read the OP's mind. It's a judgement call. If a Warrior is not very active and then suddenly starts a thread linked to a WSO I would be suspicious.

          That could suggest they were not 'giving freely' to the forum but only posting for their own benefit. Yes, people would still benefit from the post but it's a poisoned chalice.

          Related to this is the integrity of the post. If my post were designed to promote a WSO, wouldn't I be just a little bit tempted to embellish things a little?

          It's kind of an unwritten rule that you don't keep drawing attention to your sig file. In a sense, it's not necessary. If you make good posts people will check you out anyway.

          Having said all that, Jason Moffat was commenting on how he abandoned an idea for a blog project for Warriors because he got flak from people who thought it was pure self-promotion.

          We can't know people's intentions. We can only make an educated guess based on our experience and knowledge of the person concerned.

          And, if we are not sure, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

          Martin
          There are still a few of these threads alive which are blatant WSO ads
          or just self promotion.
          It;s a bit unfair on those that have had theirs deleted
          to have to view these everyday.
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    • Profile picture of the author admin
      Administrator
      Originally Posted by Chris Hunter View Post


      Also, are we now saying that no kind of forum marketing can take place on a forum full of marketers? LOL!! I mean, come on.

      Chris,

      The funny thing about that statement is that forums are not for "marketing". They are for discussions. Unless a forum has a section 'for' marketing 'in' the forum. Like the WSO section.

      So the answer to your question is No. In here, no 'forum marketing' is supposed to be taking place, unless you are in a section that is set up for it.

      If you are here for that then you really only see this place as a place to make sales, not to discuss anything.

      Allen
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Hunter
        Originally Posted by admin View Post

        If you are here for that then you really only see this place as a place to make sales, not to discuss anything.
        Allen,

        I am not here for that and I think that I've proven it over time. Others maybe, but not me.

        I only made that statement in regards to the fact that many people come here asking questions about how to get traffic to their sites or WSOs and one of the suggestions given to them is to perform forum marketing.

        To me, it just made sense to see forum marketing in a place where forum marketing is suggested, is all.

        But I see your point.

        I guess my question is this: If I'm running a WSO about how to get more traffic from your articles and a link to my WSO is in my sig, should I not post answers to threads with article marketing questions?

        I'm asking this seriously. Not trying at all to be a smart-alec.
        Signature

        Ok, sure. You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/Chris_Hunter ;)

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        • Profile picture of the author admin
          Administrator
          Originally Posted by Chris Hunter View Post

          Allen,

          I am not here for that and I think that I've proven it over time. Others maybe, but not me.

          I only made that statement in regards to the fact that many people come here asking questions about how to get traffic to their sites or WSOs and one of the suggestions given to them is to perform forum marketing.

          To me, it just made sense to see forum marketing in a place where forum marketing is suggested, is all.

          But I see your point.

          I guess my question is this: If I'm running a WSO about how to get more traffic from your articles and a link to my WSO is in my sig, should I not post answers to threads with article marketing questions?

          I'm asking this seriously. Not trying at all to be a smart-alec.

          Hi Chris,

          As mentioned in a few good posts above yes it would be ok.

          The only problem we use to have with that is someone coming in and searching for all posts related to their WSO and putting in one line responses to every single thread. Suddenly you end up with 45 article threads on the front of the forum all with this posters one line responses :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author tj
      Originally Posted by Chris Hunter View Post

      Does anyone know why Kneb's very knowledgeable thread about public domain work was removed?

      Also, are we now saying that no kind of forum marketing can take place on a forum full of marketers? LOL!! I mean, come on.

      Not trying to be disrespectful in anyway, just curious as to where the lines are drawn, so I thought that I'd ask and not test the boundaries.
      You can find it in the Test Forum.

      Timo
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        You know, this thread (fascinating as it is) has made me realize something.

        It almost doesn't matter what the initial thread starter is. From what I've
        personally seen here, most threads that become extremely "popular" are
        one of three kinds.

        1. How To
        2. Rant
        3. Watch Me

        Ultimately, almost all these threads end up getting deleted for a variety of
        reasons that are almost pointless to get into here.

        The cost of a popular thread to the thread creator is its actual popularity.
        Even a perfectly benign thread, once it reaches the point where it gets
        so big and members get sick and tired of seeing it on page 1 day after
        day, eventually get nuked...even if not one bad thing was said in the
        thread itself. It is the nature of the beast.

        For that reason, it's pointless to get worked up over this stuff.

        Would you rather start a thread that got 20 views and vanished into
        obscurity within 4 hours?

        If you've contributed to the forum discussion and your thread became
        popular enough to be deleted, consider it a compliment.

        Warped way of looking at it?

        Maybe, but it sure beats getting upset over it.
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        • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
          You know, Steve... someone should make a tshirt and sell it as a WSO... with something like:



          WTF? Where did my 40,000 view thread go?

          OR

          I am officially a Warrior. My thread got deleted.
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        • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
          Hmmmm...

          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          From what I've
          personally seen here, most threads that become extremely "popular" are
          one of three kinds.

          1. How To
          2. Rant
          3. Watch Me

          "Watch Me Rant -- And Discover How You Can Do It Too!"





          cheers,
          Becky
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  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    Hey Chris (Hunter),

    Does anyone know why Kneb's very knowledgeable thread about public domain work was removed?
    Did you see this post yet?


    shkad14 wrote:

    Why is the "$4500 Case Study" thread still up then? This guy had a WSO in his sig before he ever had a single response. That was the most blatent attempt as self promotion I have seen on WF. His thread is about how wonderful public domains are, and he is promoting a WSO, not only in his sig, but also within some of his posts as well.
    This is why.
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  • Profile picture of the author JCTunes
    Do we report the thread, or an individual post?

    BTW, I still have Kneb's public domain thread in my "Subscribed Threads" list. Hope it's still active.
    Signature

    If there's a will, there's a way!

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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    OK. Aimed at no-one in particular. But, probably more than I'd hoped.

    Wikipedia defines Marketing as:

    Marketing is defined...as the activity, set of institutions, and processes for creating, communicating, delivering, and exchanging offerings that have value for customers, clients, partners, and society at large.
    Wkipedia goes on to say this about Forums:

    People participating in an Internet forum can build bonds with each other and interest groups will easily form around a topic's discussion, subjects dealt within or around sections in the forum.

    The more we focus on building bonds, and delivering information of value, rather than pissing on everyone else's parade...the better off we'll all be.


    Damn my idealogical upbringing.

    Steve
    Signature

    Not promoting right now

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    • Profile picture of the author tomw
      Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

      The more we focus on building bonds, and delivering information of value, rather than pissing on everyone else's parade...the better off we'll all be.
      Hi Steve,

      I think that you've completely missed the point of this thread and many of those made within it.

      It's Allen's "parade," not "everyone else's." Participation in this forum is a privilege not a right and that privilege certainly does not extend to asserting any "ownership" or "branding" of any part of it.

      Just like with anyone else's property either virtual or physical.



      Thomas

      P.S. That's a great shiny new blog. You're right, the new PRS looks awesome!
      Signature
      STOP THE TRAFFIK: PEOPLE SHOULDN'T BE BOUGHT AND SOLD
      Help Us Rescue, Rehabilitate And Reunite Victims With Their Families

      STOP THE TRAFFIK is a growing global movement of individuals, communities and organisations fighting to PREVENT the sale of people,
      PROTECT the trafficked and PROSECUTE the traffickers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
        Originally Posted by tomw View Post

        Hi Steve,

        P.S. That's a great shiny new blog. You're right, the new PRS looks awesome!
        Yes, Tom, it is awesome.

        P.S. I disagree, but not about the privilege part...
        Signature

        Not promoting right now

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  • Profile picture of the author mmurtha
    Hey Chris (Hunter),

    Jeff is right about how forum marketing is perceived, and I think Allen will agree.

    It's not about pushing or advertising your products directly, and this is where people get confused.

    It's about sharing informatiom, and in this sharing of info you may or may not get traffic to your sig file. So you are basically marketing yourself by the way you post or present yourself in a forum. I too think that if you are posting simply for traffic and sales, then you are missing out on the biggest gift of this forum, and probably the other forums you post to as well.

    Think of it in this way if it'll help:

    If you say you are going to give a gift to someone but your primary motives are for personal gain instead of gifting, it's not a gift at all. You'd make out much better in the long run by giving a genuine gift because people will view you in a different light.

    So it's not about "What's in it for me" in the end, but "what is it that I can offer to someone else", or pack into the stream.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Paul (ic7),
      Ok, if someone creates a very useful thread and at the end of their post says, "Check my sig for more info." And in their sig is a link to their related WSO...

      ...is this out of line?
      Ahh... THAT can get tricky. Even long time members can get confused about that.

      I spoke with a gentleman the other day who's been a member here for four years or so. He occasionally jumps into threads and offers help or comments, but rarely starts his own. He saw a question repeated, remembered my comment about the value of the content, and posted an article he'd written that he thought answered a number of those questions. Complete with copyright date.

      That looked self-promotional, and got deleted. Properly so, as he readily agreed when the situation was explained to him.

      He could have done the same thing by prefacing the post with, "I've seen X posts recently asking about [problem]. One here, one here and one there. Rather than post the same thing in a bunch of threads, I thought I'd offer my thoughts on it in one place, in the hopes it will be helpful to anyone who might have the same questions."

      Then edit the thing so it becomes part of the conversation, rather than an "announcement." Done properly, that could be a good way to handle it.

      I recommend against pointing to an offer in a sig file unless it's in response to a specific request for information on the topic. I very strongly recommend against pointing to any offer at all in a thread starter. It's very difficult to do that without being perceived as having posted for the advertising value.

      I say perceived because we don't really ever know the intent of the poster. We, as collective moderators, have to make decisions based on what things look like. If it looks like an ad, we need to get rid of it, because leaving it stay will encourage others to do the same thing in the same way. That leads folks to post ads intentionally.

      Does that lead to people with good intentions occasionally being foiled in their efforts to be helpful? Sure. And that sucks. But it doesn't suck as much as creating an excuse for dozens of people with less helpful intentions to claim they're "just doing what Joey did."

      Chris,
      I guess my question is this: If I'm running a WSO about how to get more traffic from your articles and a link to my WSO is in my sig, should I not post answers to threads with article marketing questions?
      Jeff nailed it. Answering questions is the place where my comments apply about the value of the post being the factor that determines fitness.

      If the answers would be useful without the sig file being attached, then yeah. The answers are appropriate, and the presence of a sig file should be irrelevant, except to people who find them useful enough to want more.

      Example: I've been answering threads here about writing for a looong time. When I had an offer going for a book on the subject, I didn't let that stop me from continuing to answer those same sorts of questions. In fact, I made sure I put more effort into giving complete answers, in order to make sure people got more value from the posts themselves.

      Some people might have thought that was intended to get attention for the offer. It wasn't, but that was probably an added benefit.

      That's how it works. The more value you offer for people who don't buy from you, the more attention you'll get from the folks who want to learn what you teach.

      The offer is gone now, but those posts still have value. That might be another useful way to look at it, if you're not sure.


      Paul
      Signature
      .
      Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.

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  • Profile picture of the author Kneb Knebaih
    *

    Hi Allen (and moderators):

    I noticed that you have removed my thread:

    "$3,000 in 45 days + $2,000 in 30 days + $600 in 3 days... Real Warrior case study"


    I am aware of the "self-promotion threads controversy"... but believe me when I say that I shared there lots of practical information, not even included in my book.

    I don´t post for selfish or self-promotion purposes (I don´t need it), and I never ever mention my WSO or any of my services (you can browse my posts there to verification).

    Surely, many Warriors can testify that.


    I just wanted to really share free practical info (of course, about my topic, that´s what I have expertise on).

    Even more, there were other Warriors who jumped on the thread to blatantly promote his own related services, and even launched related WSOs.

    (You can read that thread to see for yourself.)

    And I sincerely apologize if the thread became offensive to some Warriors, or I crossed the line. That was not my intention.

    I always intend to offer sincere help and share practical information through my posts.

    (Heck, I was really baffled after watching the movie "Seven Pounds"... That was a life-changing moment for me: nothing beats the feeling of being able to help people... nothing).


    But the point is: that thread became a true goldmine, with lots of Warriors sharing great information and even their own case studies and experiences.

    And as Paul Myers wisely pointed out, that thread will still be a goldmine of information by itself, one year from now, when my sig will show unrelated stuff (or just won´t show any link).

    Of course, I accept and respect your decision of removing the thread.


    What I don´t really understand is what was my fault...

    It was the the fact that I posted great information about my topic of expertise?


    As an example, one of the most large and viewed WF posts of all times:

    "Here´s a stupidly simple cash cow..." by David Preston


    I loved that thread, a true goldmine.

    But the original poster, David, has books and offer services related to the information he was sharing (and the same for David Cavannagh and others, great contributors to that thread)...

    So that´s a problem, from now on?

    I don´t see any problem with that, providing that the poster is sharing true value, as David Preston and others did.

    And he indeed mentioned in some of his posts that he has a book on the topic (I purchased it).

    Well, if all of you remember, that post was followed by a hard-promoted seminar for Warriors through every page on the forum (I even thought I was visiting a David Preston site when I saw the large banner ad on every page)...

    But again, no problem with that.


    I think though that this situation can generate confussion and censure great information-sharing in the near future.



    The only thing I ask is:

    It would be possible to make the thread live again (in any other location or unrelated link)... just for me, to recoup the information and save it.

    Let´s say for the next 24 hours only, so I can have the time to save the pages.

    It would be a big loss (at least for me) to miss that information forever.


    I hope you can understand my point.



    With Respect,
    Kneb Knebaih

    *
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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    Administrator
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author admin
    Administrator
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Kneb Knebaih
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve Taylor
        Originally Posted by Kneb Knebaih View Post

        Oh, I can access it now, thanks...


        Please, let me 24 hours to copy/paste and save the pages, before to remove it completely.


        Thanks

        Kneb,

        If you use firefox, go to file-print-then pdf option...it takes only a few seconds to do.

        -Steve
        Signature

        Ask...Because you never stop learning.

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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    Hmmm... I guess my thread also got bombed in this wave of deletions. I also simply posted an experiment in flipping a blog from scratch. The purpose of the entire thread was to counter the wave of negativity on the forum when it started. I guess it prompted many copycat threads and there were a lot of one-liner newbie posters. I summarized the whole experiment in a free .pdf and posted it as a free WSO. Maybe the thread could be brought back and locked so as not to attract the trolls. My apologies if I contributed to a problem here as that clearly was NOT my intention, just trying to inspire and share information. Thanks.

    TomG.
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  • Profile picture of the author MizzCindy
    I get the premise behind nipping blatant WSO promotion in the bud. Troll-like spammy stuff dilutes the value of this forum.

    However, in the case of Kneb's thread, I have to say there was a ton of useful information there - provided by Kneb and other posters who freely shared their experiences and knowledge.

    In cases like that thread, which became a rich resource (in the spirit of this forum in general, I think), it would have been beneficial for members to be able to continue reading and/or participating because it was truly useful stuff to know.

    I love this forum and I respect the efforts made to keep it top-notch. It gets tough to draw the line between what is and isn't a positive contribution and that in and of itself can be a never ending cycle.

    I guess I'm saying this - if a thread's deletion actually removes information that benefits warriors and depletes the overall pool of killer content that makes this forum special (and it doesn't violate the other rules of this forum), maybe it would be worth reinstating - as in the case of Kneb's thread.

    At any rate, this forum has been a main source of inspiration and knowledge for my growing online business. For that, I remain incredibly grateful...and loyal!

    Cindy
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  • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
    Banned
    I can't believe all these people whining about their posts being deleted.
    They've hogged the main forum for months and they're still not happy.
    If these posts are so important they should be on your blogs.
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    • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
      Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

      I can't believe all these people whining about their posts being deleted.
      They've hogged the main forum for months and they're still not happy.
      If these posts are so important they should be on your blogs.
      Ahem... As one of the whiners you are referring to, I was simply asking for the thread to be re-instated and locked specifically so that it does not annoy people like you when newbies post inane one liners to up post count. Without new posts to bump it, the thread will sink but people searching on the topic will be able to benefit. Is that whining? If so, so be it.

      TomG.
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      • Profile picture of the author ic7
        If it looks like an ad, we need to get rid of it, because leaving it stay will encourage others to do the same thing in the same way. That leads folks to post ads intentionally.
        Good point, Paul. I guess it's the avalanche we want to avoid. Otherwise the noise drowns out the valuable info.

        Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Louis Raven
        Originally Posted by tommygadget View Post

        Ahem... As one of the whiners you are referring to, I was simply asking for the thread to be re-instated and locked specifically so that it does not annoy people like you when newbies post inane one liners to up post count. Without new posts to bump it, the thread will sink but people searching on the topic will be able to benefit. Is that whining? If so, so be it.

        TomG.
        Hey Tom,

        You had a great thread thread but if your's is re-instated, Allen will be bombarded with "let me let me" PM's.

        Also, at what point should they be locked? This will cause an admin or super-mod to sift through and subscribe to all challenge threads until he/they thinks they have enough meat to sustain a locking for future searchers.

        It's like most things around here.. some threads will make noobies a lot of cash whilst pissing off other members at the same time.

        Anyway it's not my place to even comment on the subject.

        Louis
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  • Profile picture of the author ecoverartist
    I have a question although I think the answer's going to be "because this is Allen's forum and he can do what he wants" which is fine but it would clarify a lot for me!

    David Preston's "Cash Cow" thread would also promote books, courses and such, and for a time there was an ad at the very top of the forum for it. How is that one okay but Kneb's is not? Just curious, that's all.

    (As a disclaimer, I enjoyed both of those threads although I didn't read through all 100 pages of them so they might have been soured by spammers and self promoters by the time they were removed!)
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