Warriors: Should We Profit From Tragedy?

104 replies
I've been following the tragic case of missing 11-month-old
baby Lisa Irwin. For those that aren't familiar with the case,
she disappeared from her crib on Oct 4th. The father returned
home from work to find the mother asleep, and the baby missing
from her crib.

As the investigation has continued, more and more of the focus
has turned to the parents. I'm not going to say that one or both of them
are guilty, this is America and you are innocent until proven guilty.
However, things certainly are pointing in that direction.

Now, why am I telling you all of this? What does this case have to
do with you and making money?

This morning I'm going through my normal routine of checking the top
news stories (and dare I say my Facebook account), before getting down
to work, and I see a story about a new Lisa Irwin website.

The article let readers know that the police want tips submitted to them,
and not to this new website.

After looking the site over, I believe the media is COMPLETELY LOST
as to why this new site was really setup. It wasn't setup to help find
Lisa. No, no, no. It was setup TO MAKE MONEY!

It's a very basic 3-column site, with content in the middle column,
and Google Ads in each of the two outer columns.

So . . . do you believe this is ethical? To setup a site designed to
profit from tragedy?

You can make the argument that every news outlet covering
the story is profiting from it - and that's true.

However, I'm of the believe that there's a line there somewhere, and
that this site has crossed it.

What say you?
#profit #tragedy #warriors
  • Profile picture of the author Hoodyy
    If it increases the exposure of the story and is legitimately trying to get people to call the police with anything they know then it's fine...

    The objective of the site is to make money, most likely - but if it's helping as well (which it probably needs to if it's to get any traffic), then who cares?

    The majority of review sites are produced not to warn or recommend products to other people but to sell the products. You can say that's unethical too - which it is. However, the good review sites will say what is bad and good legitimately to gain trust, authority etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
    I appreciate a lot of people take advantage of anything that comes along.

    Personally I like to sleep at night and I would not feel comfortable making money off the back of a missing child, or any other tragedy for that matter.

    Originally Posted by Hoodyy View Post


    The objective of the site is to make money, most likely - but if it's helping as well (which it probably needs to if it's to get any traffic), then who cares?
    That's the difference between various people. See, if the kid winds up being found dead, you'd be happy that you made money from it and you can justify it because you provided some help?

    I think you should ask yourself if it was your child, would you be happy for me to set up a site where people could provide info in the knowledge I was capitalising on your daughters vanishing so I could make some moolah? If you're fine with that, hell, go make a website....and let me know if anything bad happens to you. I'll set up a website too.

    Originally Posted by Hoodyy View Post

    The majority of review sites are produced not to warn or recommend products to other people but to sell the products. You can say that's unethical too - which it is. However, the good review sites will say what is bad and good legitimately to gain trust, authority etc.
    Wait a second. You are comparing a product review site and a site capitalising on the disappearance of a baby?

    You can't be serious? Where's the connection exactly?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      The comparison between this site and news outlets is an interesting one. We're all used to the fact that news outlets profit from tragedies. Why should this be seen any differently? And yet, it feels pretty nasty to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
        Originally Posted by burningdrive View Post

        The comparison between this site and news outlets is an interesting one. We're all used to the fact that news outlets profit from tragedies. Why should this be seen any differently? And yet, it feels pretty nasty to me.
        Speaking as a former news anchor, news outlets profit from advertisers, who pay ad rates that are based on ratings. There's no "bonus" for every missing kid story or fatal car accident soundbite that makes it into the rundown

        The news outlets are covering the story because that's what they're licensed by the FCC to do - to act in the public interest. In this case, acting in the public interest is getting word out about the case, in hopes that it can help find the missing baby. Trust me, none of those reporters, anchors, and producers enjoy shoving a mic in someone's face and asking how they feel. In fact, it's a downright miserable feeling.

        ... Just wanted to clear that up. Now, back to the original question

        To me, creating a website to profit off of something like this just doesn't pass the "smell test". My biggest fear would be that people would pass on legitimate tips to this website - thinking it's connected to the official investigation - when it's really some guy just looking to make a buck. Plus, it takes up a domain that someone could have used to set up a genuine tips/information site.

        If it were me, I don't think I could sleep at night.
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        • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
          Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post

          Speaking as a former news anchor, news outlets profit from advertisers, who pay ad rates that are based on ratings. There's no "bonus" for every missing kid story or fatal car accident soundbite that makes it into the rundown

          The news outlets are covering the story because that's what they're licensed by the FCC to do - to act in the public interest. In this case, acting in the public interest is getting word out about the case, in hopes that it can help find the missing baby. Trust me, none of those reporters, anchors, and producers enjoy shoving a mic in someone's face and asking how they feel. In fact, it's a downright miserable feeling.

          ... Just wanted to clear that up. Now, back to the original question

          To me, creating a website to profit off of something like this just doesn't pass the "smell test". My biggest fear would be that people would pass on legitimate tips to this website - thinking it's connected to the official investigation - when it's really some guy just looking to make a buck. Plus, it takes up a domain that someone could have used to set up a genuine tips/information site.

          If it were me, I don't think I could sleep at night.
          Well....kinda. The more scandalous, the bigger the tragedy, the more shocking the story, the higher the ratings are going to be, which = more money from the advertisers, as ads are based on ratings.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by burningdrive View Post

        The comparison between this site and news outlets is an interesting one. We're all used to the fact that news outlets profit from tragedies. Why should this be seen any differently?

        Exactly. Is profiting from the pain of others legal, moral and ethical?

        As long as they slap "news" on the site, then yes it is.

        Would I do it? If I wasn't otherwise occupied making money, I might consider it.

        The primary concern I would have is to monetize the site in a way that would not trivialize the missing child.

        My secondary concern is creating a website that will only have a short-lifespan. I prefer to invest my time into websites that are evergreen, i.e. websites that are as important ten years from now as they are today.

        Who knows how this story will end, but for sure, it has a limited shelf life.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      What is really going on in this thread?

      That domain was registered less than 48 hours ago.

      Yet you are linking to it?

      I call B.S. on this one - someone is trying for a viral campaign. May not be the OP but why would anyone participate in spreading this newly launched site???

      I'd like to see the link to the article that talked about this site - the one you found on the news this morning.

      Sorry, this one just doesn't fly for me.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        What is really going on in this thread?

        That domain was registered less than 48 hours ago.

        Yet you are linking to it?

        I call B.S. on this one - someone is trying for a viral campaign. May not be the OP but why would anyone participate in spreading this newly launched site???

        I'd like to see the link to the article that talked about this site - the one you found on the news this morning.

        Sorry, this one just doesn't fly for me.


        Hmm... Good point, I hadn't thought of that possibility... I didn't click on the link because I didn't want to see it anyway.
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      • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        What is really going on in this thread?

        That domain was registered less than 48 hours ago.

        Yet you are linking to it?

        I call B.S. on this one - someone is trying for a viral campaign. May not be the OP but why would anyone participate in spreading this newly launched site???

        I'd like to see the link to the article that talked about this site - the one you found on the news this morning.

        Sorry, this one just doesn't fly for me.
        Oh Kay, come on now... :rolleyes:

        It was on both the Lisa Irwin facebook page ( https://www.facebook.com/find.lisa ) and also this news article:
        LISA IRWIN: Lisa Irwin Day 17 - What You May Have Missed - WDAF
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    • Profile picture of the author davezan
      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      You can't be serious? Where's the connection exactly?
      Intent, maybe.

      We can all argue for all eternity whether we "should" do this or that. At the end
      of the day, we are all going to decide for ourselves despite what others believe
      anyway.

      Do what you want, folks...and be ready to deal with what happens after.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by davezan View Post

        Intent, maybe.

        We can all argue for all eternity whether we "should" do this or that. At the end
        of the day, we are all going to decide for ourselves despite what others believe
        anyway.

        Do what you want...and be ready to deal with what happens after.
        What I mean't was I couldn't see the connection between a site profiting from a missing kid and, for example, an Amazon review site selling party hats.

        I agree though, let others do as they wish. It's their problem. Like I said, I sleep fine at night.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by NicoleBeckett View Post

          To me, creating a website to profit off of something like this just doesn't pass the "smell test". My biggest fear would be that people would pass on legitimate tips to this website - thinking it's connected to the official investigation - when it's really some guy just looking to make a buck. Plus, it takes up a domain that someone could have used to set up a genuine tips/information site.

          If it were me, I don't think I could sleep at night.
          I took a look at the site, and whoever set this up is a sicko. There's a couple of photos of the house (one stolen from Google Earth, Mapquest or similar) and what looks like a form for submitting tips.

          The problem is, if you look at the source code, the form is set up to dump any text submitted. It's a dummy form. It's meant to increase time in site, and the worst part is that some people will type in legitimate tips that the police will never get.

          If there are any Warriors in that area, please tell the local police about this bogus site with the dummy tip form. It crosses the line from profiteering into interference with a police investigation. Maybe the scumbag who did the site can do some time...
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          • Profile picture of the author davezan
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            If there are any Warriors in that area, please tell the local police about this bogus site with the dummy tip form.
            Tell also the police to contact Go Daddy since the domain's using WHOIS privacy
            as well.
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
              I agree with Kay, John and others. Enterprise is one thing, but that's a scummy site.


              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              Well, I just reported the site to Adsense support. Let's see how long they have that Adsense account. That's really a low-down way to make money.
              Good move, Suzanne. I'm amazed that Fox 4 claims not to be able to track down the site owner - that AdSense Publisher ID shows up on at least another 34 sites. :rolleyes:

              I don't believe the OP meant any harm, but, IMO, it would be a good idea to remove the link from the opening post. No point in giving that site any more link juice from this forum.


              Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
                Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                I agree with Kay, John and others. Enterprise is one thing, but that's a scummy site.




                Good move, Suzanne. I'm amazed that Fox 4 claims not to be able to track down the site owner - that AdSense Publisher ID shows up on at least another 34 sites. :rolleyes:

                I don't believe the OP meant any harm, but, IMO, it would be a good idea to remove the link from the opening post. No point in giving that site any more link juice from this forum.


                Frank
                Even though I doubt linking from here would increase the site revenue....I'm going to go ahead and remove it anyway, just to remove any doubt..and as you say, no point in any "link juice".

                For those wondering what the site looks like, here's a screen cap:
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                • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                  Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

                  The problem is, if you look at the source code, the form is set up to dump any text submitted. It's a dummy form.
                  Now that's disturbing...
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

                  For those wondering what the site looks like, here's a screen cap:
                  I think, and please those that think this site is good/OK to have, please call me old fashioned, but....

                  "Get a free Ipad" for answering those questions?

                  I'm very glad I didn't click on the link earlier. My response would have been far worse than I put earlier.

                  You get a choice between Mum, Dad or undecided? That survey is blatantly saying they had to have done it, with no evidence and unbending bias to their own sensationalist view point - no doubt cash orientated and frankly an effing disgrace.

                  Innocent before proven guilty?

                  BS.
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                    I think, and please those that think this site is good/OK to have, please call me old fashioned, but....

                    "Get a free Ipad" for answering those questions?

                    I'm very glad I didn't click on the link earlier. My response would have been far worse than I put earlier.

                    You get a choice between Mum, Dad or undecided? That survey is blatantly saying they had to have done it, with no evidence and unbending bias to their own sensationalist view point - no doubt cash orientated and frankly an effing disgrace.

                    Innocent before proven guilty?

                    BS.
                    That's a Neverblue Ad. I contacted Neverblue and they removed it immediately. Adsense still hasn't, so he has doubled up on Adsense since he can't use Neverblue now.

                    I don't have a problem at all with news profiting from news. This guy put up a dummy tip form and he is on Page 1 of Google for Lisa Irwin. The dummy tip form crosses the line. If he were just reporting Lisa Irwin news, it would be a different story.
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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                Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

                I agree with Kay, John and others. Enterprise is one thing, but that's a scummy site.

                Good move, Suzanne. I'm amazed that Fox 4 claims not to be able to track down the site owner - that AdSense Publisher ID shows up on at least another 34 sites. :rolleyes:

                Frank
                You don't have to track the site owner. Just contacting the advertisers is enough. I just got this from Neverblue Quality Assurance Exec.

                Thank you for bringing this activity to our attention. We have taken the necessary steps to deal with the matter.
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    • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
      Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

      I appreciate a lot of people take advantage of anything that comes along.

      Personally I like to sleep at night and I would not feel comfortable making money off the back of a missing child, or any other tragedy for that matter.



      That's the difference between various people. See, if the kid winds up being found dead, you'd be happy that you made money from it and you can justify it because you provided some help?

      I think you should ask yourself if it was your child, would you be happy for me to set up a site where people could provide info in the knowledge I was capitalising on your daughters vanishing so I could make some moolah? If you're fine with that, hell, go make a website....and let me know if anything bad happens to you. I'll set up a website too.



      Wait a second. You are comparing a product review site and a site capitalising on the disappearance of a baby?

      You can't be serious? Where's the connection exactly?
      Richard, I agree with you. I could not make money off of any tragedy.

      Even if there is help being offered, I think it is in poor taste.
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    There's some places to which I will just not venture.

    Profiting from someone's pain is one of them.

    Promoting guaranteed MLMs or Adsense ideas is another (as it's been my personal experience that 99.9959% of folks will fail dismally).

    Ignoring someone when they're down is a third.

    I choose not to judge others, mind you, as I have not walked in their shoes....but at the end of the day, I want to be able to look in the mirror and be proud of who is staring back at me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Well, guess you don't need to ask us to realize vast majority of us wouldn't do anything similar EVER.
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    • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
      Originally Posted by Fernando Veloso View Post

      Well, guess you don't need to ask us to realize vast majority of us wouldn't do anything similar EVER.
      And yet, as burningdrive pointed out, news outlets do this every single day - and multiple times at that!

      Interesting . . .
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      • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
        Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

        And yet, as burningdrive pointed out, news outlets do this every single day - and multiple times at that!

        Interesting . . .
        News Outlets deliver NEWS - different from a moron creating a site to make some bucks with CPA's or Adcent, right? Problem here is when someone goes that step further to rip people off of someone's else drama.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

        And yet, as burningdrive pointed out, news outlets do this every single day - and multiple times at that!

        Interesting . . .
        I do agree with the newpaper/news arguement. I'm looking at a picture on the front page here of Gadaffi and I'm sure it sold quite a few copies.

        I also think there's a difference. Why would a news outlet not put stories like this into their papers/bulletins etc? Wouldn't that defeat the object? They're mean't to be telling us the news, right? Then take Johnny the individul, he realises he can get traffic, he realises he can make money off this, he justifies it by making it look like a page to help with the case. He sets it up as a one off. Next week, another kid goes missing, Johnny thinks "Yippee, more cash, I'll set a new site up".

        One of those has a duty to report...and they tell us all the news including sport, politics and the occassional happy story. The other is an indivdual preying on other peoples suffering only.

        Like I said, people can do what they want, I'm just saying I wouldn't set a site up to make money like that. If it made money, I'd donate it. My objective with a site like that would be to find the child. Nothing more.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanmckinney
    It is good to follow trends to profit from, and some of the worlds top businessman and income earners are "ruthless". The bottom line is what you are comfortable with, you have to look at your self in the mirror.

    I would like to know the same things the post above me want to know as something seems fishy.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    There are a lot of sickos out there that would try to profit from anything, whether it be a tragedy or wild claims of a cure for uncurable health disorders.

    They are part of the reason that Internet Marketers have such a bad reputation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Istvan Horvath
    Good morning, WF...

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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Istvan Horvath View Post

      Good morning, WF...

      Yup, only the Gadaffi thread has been nuked now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        So does anyone know how an article was written to appear immediately after a domain was registered and a site was built yesterday?

        Either the "article" mentioned was a promotion for the site - or this thread is a promotion.

        There is no other explanation that I can see.
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        • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          So does anyone know how an article was written to appear immediately after a domain was registered and a site was built yesterday?

          Either the "article" mentioned was a promotion for the site - or this thread is a promotion.

          There is no other explanation that I can see.
          Are you seriously trying to say that I'm promoting this site, that it's mine??

          Seriously?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

          I will make this VERY clear:
          I am 100% against this type of site.
          I do not own the site.
          I do not know who owns the site.
          I came upon this site by reading the news this morning.

          You asked for the news article, and I just gave you the link. As I said, I've been following this case, so I read the news articles every morning, and this one caught my eye with that site listed...because it's only purpose IMO, was that it was setup to make money - but the news media didn't catch that.
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          • Profile picture of the author JCorp
            Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

            Are you seriously trying to say that I'm promoting this site, that it's mine??

            Seriously?? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

            I will make this VERY clear:
            I am 100% against this type of site.
            I do not own the site.
            I do not know who owns the site.
            I came upon this site by reading the news this morning.

            You asked for the news article, and I just gave you the link. As I said, I've been following this case, so I read the news articles every morning, and this one caught my eye with that site listed...because it's only purpose IMO, was that it was setup to make money - but the news media didn't catch that.
            Interesting argument. But the fact that you did link to this site in a high traffic forum will increase it's exposure and possibly revenue...by the way who asked for the news article?

            Originally Posted by LegitIncomes View Post

            You asked for the news article, and I just gave you the link.
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            • Profile picture of the author LegitIncomes
              Originally Posted by JCorp View Post

              Interesting argument. But the fact that you did link to this site in a high traffic forum will increase it's exposure and possibly revenue...by the way who asked for the news article?
              I highly doubt anyone from this forum is going to click on their ads.

              Kay King, post #8.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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              Originally Posted by JCorp View Post

              Interesting argument. But the fact that you did link to this site in a high traffic forum will increase it's exposure and possibly revenue...by the way who asked for the news article?
              People link to all kinds of sites here to point them out for numerous reasons. Doesn't mean anything on it's face value. It never would have occurred to me, and still doesn't that the OP is associated with the site.

              If he is, his Adsense account is now in grave danger. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Wagoner
    As a parent I would never create a site to cash in on such a thing.

    I also think it gives a look inside the person who would.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Well, I just reported the site to Adsense support. Let's see how long they have that Adsense account. That's really a low-down way to make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wise
    I agree with the OP on this, the line has definitley been crossed.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlexisMoore
    Whoever owns that site makes me sick. I have a 15 month old- if she were lost and someone was doing this crap I would personally find the one doing it and cause them a great deal of bodily harm.

    Interfering with an investigation to find a lost baby? I don't think you can get any lower than that. I'm glad this was brought to light and that the people who knew how to do something about it took action.
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  • Profile picture of the author JeanneLynn
    I don't have a problem with making money by creating a site that reports news about a tragedy. I wouldn't do it myself, as I'm a mother of 3. And I really worry about Karma. These types of stories can be big and drag on; I bet some people made a ton of money on the Caylee Anthony murder investigation and trial that went on for years.

    However, this site was just sickening. A bogus tip form? Is this even legal? I think this person should be arrested. What if someone has already submitted a tip on their bogus form that could have helped find this little baby?

    I'm so glad this website was reported to their advertisers.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I just sent the following to the news station which published the article linked above:

      A look at the source code underlying the tip form mentioned in the article would reveal that any tips submitted via this form go NOWHERE. There is no destination for the tips.

      The site, lisa-irwin.com appears to be the effort of a profiteer hoping to make money on ad clicks, and the coward is hiding behind a private registration.

      KC authorities should be investigating this sicko for interfering with a police investigation. I sure hope no legitimate tips are lost because of this site.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    This baby is on the cover of People Magazine today. Why do you think People chose to put this baby on the cover? If you guess anything other than "to sell more magazines" then you are wrong.

    Agree or disagree with it. It's your prerogative. One thing is for sure, though... None of you would even know who Baby Irwin is if it weren't for businesses making money off of the story.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      This baby is on the cover of People Magazine today. Why do you think People chose to put this baby on the cover? If you guess anything other than "to sell more magazines" then you are wrong.

      Agree or disagree with it. It's your prerogative. One thing is for sure, though... None of you would even know who Baby Irwin is if it weren't for businesses making lovey off of the story.
      Did People Magazine also include a dummy tip form on it's cover?
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      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Did People Magazine also include a dummy tip form on it's cover?
        I do agree that the form and the ad on the right are both tastless and possibly harmful. I was more responding to the title of the thread, rather than the content of the site in question. Perhaps a a bad on my part.

        The thread title is "Should We Profit From Tragedy?". This is a different topic than "Should we exploit tragedy with false advertising and false help?", which should have been the title.
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  • Profile picture of the author blillard
    No bad deed goes unpunished and what you do in the dark will shine in the light. I always preach this to many people who think that a quick buck is always the best buck when you have to throw someone under the bus to get it or surf the wave of someone else misfortune.

    In the end it is your personal morals that will determine the type of person you are inside. Personally I feel like anyone making money off something as such a baby missing should be ashamed of themselves 100 times over.

    Maybe that is what make warriors different then others out there is the fact that were a caring community and do not influence such tactics in marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by blillard View Post

      No bad deed goes unpunished and what you do in the dark will shine in the light. I always preach this to many people who think that a quick buck is always the best buck when you have to throw someone under the bus to get it or surf the wave of someone else misfortune.

      In the end it is your personal morals that will determine the type of person you are inside. Personally I feel like anyone making money off something as such a baby missing should be ashamed of themselves 100 times over.

      Maybe that is what make warriors different then others out there is the fact that were a caring community and do not influence such tactics in marketing.

      Maybe the thing that makes some Warriors different from others is that they read a thread before assuming that everyone on the thread is in agreement, while others see what they want to see. :rolleyes:

      I don't think the news agencies will ever be ashamed 100 times over, and if they were, then you and I would only see the news that makes us feel good, rather than the news that is important to know.
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  • Profile picture of the author IamTJM
    It definitely depends on your perspective. The question of right or wrong and moral or immoral depends on the individual. One's view on what is positive and what is negative will vary amongst the general population.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlexisMoore
    It's not so much that the person is making money from it, but more about the fact that they are interfering with the investigation. It's one thing to present a story as news, but something totally different to make a fake tip form and toss out information that could help find someone's baby. Just my opinion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Brian,

      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      This baby is on the cover of People Magazine today.
      If People Magazine had also printed a phone number for tips and info which was then re-routed to a premium CPA offer, that might be comparable with the site we're discussing. I don't think most of us in this thread are railing against the media coverage of this event per se, or that of bad/sensationalist news stories in general.


      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      You don't have to track the site owner. Just contacting the advertisers is enough.
      I realize that, Suzanne. I was referring to this excerpt from the press article: "..But FOX 4 was not able to determine who the website belonged to, and there is no way to determine where the tips are going."


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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by AlexisMoore View Post

      It's not so much that the person is making money from it, but more about the fact that they are interfering with the investigation. It's one thing to present a story as news, but something totally different to make a fake tip form and toss out information that could help find someone's baby. Just my opinion.

      In that context, I do agree with you.
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by AlexisMoore View Post

      It's not so much that the person is making money from it, but more about the fact that they are interfering with the investigation. It's one thing to present a story as news, but something totally different to make a fake tip form and toss out information that could help find someone's baby. Just my opinion.
      That's true, and just goes to show the news TV site could have done a much better job of vetting the site before they posted it's url in their news story.

      Bad reporting, in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Geeked Labs
    I think too many here are acting a bit "high and mighty".The only problem I see here is this douche actually has the audacity to have a FAKE tips form. For that he should be fined severely.

    Perhaps we can all make some money from his ousting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Larry Zinamon
    I don't think anyone should profit from someone's personal trajedy.

    However, people will often do anything when it comes to making a dollar. Even if that mean taking advantage of person's trajedy.

    If someone has put up a website on baby Lisa, I hope some good comes of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      Originally Posted by Larry Zinamon View Post

      If someone has put up a website on baby Lisa, I hope some good comes of it.
      Nice of you to drop in. Hope you get a chance to read the thread at some point.
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  • Profile picture of the author nadal619
    wow , thats so horrible !!!

    I dont agree at all with that .
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    • Profile picture of the author PLRExpress
      Personally, I wouldn't create a site for that sort of thing and monetize it at the same time.

      If I wanted to help then I would do it for reasons other than money. However, I would never condemn for anyone wanting to take a chance on an opportunity as long as it is within the law.

      If you think about it, most news websites are providing content about matters like this and make most of their money by spreading doom and gloom and also helping people hear about stories. There's nothing wrong with that - they're providing a service.
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    • Profile picture of the author hossainsrj
      I'm not seeing any bad thing here. I know it's not a good news at all. We often share news on facebook which we get shocked. And in this case he just shared a news which he thought should be shared. If he did a wrong then what will be your opinion about all the newspapers or online news portal whom are publishing daily with tons of bad news! people are reading this, and the owner of newspaper is earning money!
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
    If I had a tip about a missing baby I would call the police directly, not fill out a form on a website.

    Not justifying that form at all, but what are the odds that someone who has useful info about the case will find that site and fill out the form and not contact authorities at all? Probably pretty close to zero.

    I also don't see a site like that making much money since the ads are pretty random.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Chris Lockwood View Post

      Not justifying that form at all, but what are the odds that someone who has useful info about the case will find that site and fill out the form and not contact authorities at all? Probably pretty close to zero.

      Let's hope you are right.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Are you seriously trying to say that I'm promoting this site, that it's mine??
        No, obviously you are not. I was wrong to infer that.

        Thing is - this kind of site gets attention because of articles published about it and because that gets picked up and goes viral on blogs and forums. That's what these folks want...and I don't want to give it to them.

        My point was - how on earth could this particular site be getting attention 2 days after the domain was registered? We're talking a site/form - getting indexed - getting traffic. Yes, you can do that quickly with a trending story - but 2 days???

        My feeling was if there were news articles about this site the day after the site was launched...they may have been generated by the site owner. Could be wrong but it's been known to happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheila Dunfrey
    Personally, i would not use other people just to profit especially if the issue is like this. Whether you intention is to help the family of the baby, it is still not right to use someone's tragedy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
    Speaking as someone who has spent the last 13 years dealing with outliving a child, if I ever found out someone was trying to make money on my pain I would want to beat the crap out of someone.

    You can debate the ins and outs of this discussion until you are blue in the face, but until you have lived through it yourself you will never understand what parents go through when they lose a child. It is a loss that never goes away and you truely do lose a part of yourself. I know people who after 30 years are still trying to just live day by day.

    There is never, never, never a valid excuse for making money off of this type of loss. It shows a complete lack of compassion and an extreme lack of morals.

    Just my opinion, but it is the opinion of someone who has been there and done that. I have walked this walk for a long time and I know the hell every parent goes through when they lose a child.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Johnny Slater View Post

      Speaking as someone who has spent the last 13 years dealing with outliving a child, if I ever found out someone was trying to make money on my pain I would want to beat the crap out of someone.

      You can debate the ins and outs of this discussion until you are blue in the face, but until you have lived through it yourself you will never understand what parents go through when they lose a child. It is a loss that never goes away and you truely do lose a part of yourself. I know people who after 30 years are still trying to just live day by day.

      There is never, never, never a valid excuse for making money off of this type of loss. It shows a complete lack of compassion and an extreme lack of morals.

      Just my opinion, but it is the opinion of someone who has been there and done that. I have walked this walk for a long time and I know the hell every parent goes through when they lose a child.
      I think this post just needs pulling to the front of the thread to remind all those people who couldn't give a s*** where they get their money from to hope and pray it never happens to them.

      Well spoken Johnny, I'm very sorry you've had to go through this and I commend your strength coming here to post this.

      Ram - Kids go missing every day, every city, every state and you never ever read a word about it.
      Perhaps you should find out who they are and set up sites that do conform to your business model so you can have a good time and get some moolah out of it, as you're ok with that.

      Each to their own though.
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  • Profile picture of the author apolwar
    I think if you somehow gain money through tragedy, I hope you also give something back to the ones who had the tragedy.

    It would be helpful to the victims.
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  • Profile picture of the author jeffreys
    To all of you,

    Please don't do that. Profiting from some other people pain is not ethic but there are lot's of people doing that.

    Your choice.
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    • Profile picture of the author Morganzolar
      I think money will always be made where there's an opportunity, as several posters have said - make sure you give some of it back.

      Still not ethical, but at least it is charitable.

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  • Profile picture of the author wildjohnny
    Don't think that is good idea. There always some other, more positive ways to make money. This is bad karma, better to avoid.
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  • Profile picture of the author cooler1
    Maybe its possible that he/she just didn't set the form up correctly? As what is the point in putting a dummy form on?

    It's not exactly going to increase their adsense clicks or get someone to fill out the free iPad offer. If anything it will decrease their revenue because people will get more distracted.
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    • Profile picture of the author Noiroi
      Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

      Maybe its possible that he/she just didn't set the form up correctly? As what is the point in putting a dummy form on? ...
      I would think that a site trying to help would test the form to insure the form was working. I'm willing to guess s/he took the time to test that their Adsense was displaying properly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Noiroi
    Amazing that things like this can fly for so long. You'd think it would be shut down within 24hours.

    So, I spoke about this with a friend of mine and came to the following conclusion: We're bombarded with this type of stuff on a daily basis. If I may take it a step further, look at all the pill ads that have one benefit and 45 side-effects. I give those announcers credit for being able to say all of that in one breath. It's the principle, I'm looking at here. The idea that someone's misfortune is another's gain. In a sense we do it here. The thing that makes this stand out so much is that it involves a child. Several of you have mentioned that as a parent, they would never do such a thing... I maybe making a stretch here, but I still think the principle applies.

    Now, someone else did mention earlier about the non-functioning form. Seriously? I think we can all "rationalize" the ads if the site was truly helpful. Providing up to date information, passing on any and all leads, ..., etc. I know I would think that the ads were to help offset the costs of increased traffic or perhaps that a portion of the revenue is being donated to <insert organization or family> to help with the search. Perhaps that's me being naive. So, I took a look at the form in question. Here's what I found:
    Code:
    <form action="" method="post" name="form1"><textarea name="textfield" rows="10" cols="50"></textarea><br />
    <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit Lisa Irwin Tip" /></form>
    Disturbing. Truly disturbing. Now, I find myself wishing a plague of 1000 rabid fleas infecting this person's genitalia. Poor fleas.

    I wonder can this person really do jail time? Is the only ramifications to speak of is a closure of account(s) and a site shutdown? Is there really nothing more we can do aside from reporting to the proper authorities and waiting for them to find the time to react? Anyone?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Noiroi View Post

      Amazing that things like this can fly for so long. You'd think it would be shut down within 24hours.

      Now, someone else did mention earlier about the non-functioning form. Seriously? I think we can all "rationalize" the ads if the site was truly helpful. Providing up to date information, passing on any and all leads, ..., etc. I know I would think that the ads were to help offset the costs of increased traffic or perhaps that a portion of the revenue is being donated to <insert organization or family> to help with the search. Perhaps that's me being naive. So, I took a look at the form in question. Here's what I found:
      Code:
      <form action="" method="post" name="form1"><textarea name="textfield" rows="10" cols="50"></textarea><br />
      <input type="submit" name="Submit" value="Submit Lisa Irwin Tip" /></form>
      Disturbing. Truly disturbing. Now, I find myself wishing a plague of 1000 rabid fleas infecting this person's genitalia. Poor fleas.

      I wonder can this person really do jail time? Is the only ramifications to speak of is a closure of account(s) and a site shutdown? Is there really nothing more we can do aside from reporting to the proper authorities and waiting for them to find the time to react? Anyone?
      I doubt jail time is in his future. No need for an over-reaction. This kind of thing goes on all the time. Take away the financial reward, which is probably going to happen when Adsense gets in gear, and this site will disappear.

      This guy also owns Occupy Wall Street. I've no objection to him trying to monetize that news, or any news. It's just the pretense of offering a way to submit tips to authorities that crosses the line.

      I have numerous news sites, and I have news about missing children, murders, etc. News organizations monetize the news every day. Nothing wrong with running a company and being able to pay your journalists and writers, as well as yourself. Everyone wants news and I certainly don't care if a news organization makes money.

      By putting the fake tip form on the site, he took it to a different level and crossed the line.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        My point was - how on earth could this particular site be getting attention 2 days after the domain was registered? We're talking a site/form - getting indexed - getting traffic. Yes, you can do that quickly with a trending story - but 2 days???

        My feeling was if there were news articles about this site the day after the site was launched...they may have been generated by the site owner. Could be wrong but it's been known to happen.
        The TV station does have a (functioning) form for submitting news tips. I have a hunch the site owner submitted a tip within a minute or two of the site going live. Probably sent news releases to a bunch of news outlets.

        Originally Posted by cooler1 View Post

        Maybe its possible that he/she just didn't set the form up correctly? As what is the point in putting a dummy form on?

        It's not exactly going to increase their adsense clicks or get someone to fill out the free iPad offer. If anything it will decrease their revenue because people will get more distracted.
        It's set up exactly as the owner intended. If you fill out the form, you come right back to the same page, where you see more ads. It also increases the time spent on the page, making it appear more valuable.

        When he/she put that dummy form on the site, they crossed the line from tacky and crass to obstruction of justice and interfering with an ongoing police investigation. Both of which could earn them a stay in the graybar hotel. If the owner is in another state, someone with a big enough ax to grind (or an election to win) could make a federal case out of it.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post


        This guy also owns Occupy Wall Street.

        LOL seems like he is good at snatching-up trendy domain names, but makes terrible and useless sites.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          LOL seems like he is good at snatching-up trendy domain names, but makes terrible and useless sites.
          Yeah ... he probably has a million of them. Can anyone say "thin affiliate site?"
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          • Profile picture of the author Brenny76065
            I'm not seeing any bad thing here. I know it's not a good news at all. We often share news on facebook which we get shocked. And in this case he just shared a news which he thought should be shared. If he did a wrong then what will be your opinion about all the newspapers or online news portal whom are publishing daily with tons of bad news! people are reading this, and the owner of newspaper is earning money!

            Seriously?? I very much doubt that his intent is to report the news. His is obviously not a news site, but a site quickly throw together to capitalize on this story. Look at the questions asked on the free Ipad offer. Add to that the dummy "tip" submission. Do you seriously think he's not exploiting this story for profit?

            Scummy and morally reprehensible in my book.
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  • Profile picture of the author dagaul101
    It's a touchy subject, most folks would steer clear of it
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  • Profile picture of the author TryBPO
    What I think would be interesting is a traditional media piece on internet marketers who use stories like this to turn a profit. I think you could do a pretty interesting bit on that for the news...a 20/20 type segment maybe?

    Still...I don't think I'd support it...IMers probably don't need any more bad press, heh.
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  • Profile picture of the author busybusinessman
    Quite honestly I think trying to make money from someone's misfortune is despicable. It reminds me of the phone hacking by Murdoch's minions of the mobile phones of the little girls from Soham who were murdered. Only brilliant investigative journalism by the Guardian exposed this and other malpractices by Murdoch and his crew.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ram
      Please. The only reason anyone cares is because this case puts a personal face on tragedy.

      The truth is most of use profit from personal pain and tragedy every day in this business. The pain of being in debt, the pain of foreclosure, the pain of having no hope for a secure retirement or a better life for one's family.

      The pain, physical and emotional, of various chronic medical conditions, the pain of divorce or a breakup, the pain of bankruptcy, the pain of loneliness.

      Lot of pain out there, We rub salt in the wound and offer a cure. Marketing 101.

      But that's nameless, faceless, impersonal pain. But every product you sell, every Adsense ad you run, every CPA offer your promote that offers hope for relieving some physical, emotional or even imagined pain goes to an individual no more of less important than the missing girl.

      We all capitalize on pain. Some of us are just more realistic about it.

      Now, I'm sure some will ask if I would put up a page like that. The answer is no. I don;t do adsense. Not my biz model.

      If it was? Maybe. I guarantee that if you follow the story on most major news sites, magazine sites, blog sites, etc, you will see ads and often adsense running right beside it. Doesn't seem to bother them. And frankly, a missing kid is not big national news unless the media decides it is. Kids go missing every day, every city, every state and you never ever read a word about it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Ram,

        Originally Posted by Ram View Post

        Now, I'm sure some will ask if I would put up a page like that. The answer is no. I don;t do adsense. Not my biz model.

        If it was? Maybe. I guarantee that if you follow the story on most major news sites, magazine sites, blog sites, etc, you will see ads and often adsense running right beside it. Doesn't seem to bother them.
        It's not the AdSense. The site in the OP is set up in a way that could hamper a police enquiry. Read John's post (#23).


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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

          Ram,



          It's not the AdSense. The site in the OP is set up in a way that could hamper a police enquiry. Read John's post (#23).


          Frank
          Better still lets just quote the main part that shows the owner of the sight is worth less than what comes out of my dogs after eating.

          The problem is, if you look at the source code, the form is set up to dump any text submitted. It's a dummy form. It's meant to increase time in site, and the worst part is that some people will type in legitimate tips that the police will never get.
          So it's set up to make money and deliberately set up so that any helpful information is dumped.

          I really don't see what the arguement is for this site at all.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ram
            Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

            I really don't see what the arguement is for this site at all.

            No argument for that site at all. But the question the OP asked is "Should We Profit From Tragedy," not should we do exactly what this example site does. The answer is, for most of us in niche marketing, we already DO profit from tragedy. We just like to do it in an impersonal manner. It's so much nicer and cleaner that way.
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by Ram View Post

              No argument for that site at all. But the question the OP asked is "Should We Profit From Tragedy," not should we do exactly what this example site does. The answer is, for most of us in niche marketing, we already DO profit from tragedy. We just like to do it in an impersonal manner. It's so much nicer and cleaner that way.
              That's a fair point. I can tell you though that nothing I sell involves any tragedy at all. Maybe that's why I feel this way and maybe that's why I've set up like this. I also find it much nicer and cleaner that way.
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              • Profile picture of the author Ram
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                That's a fair point. I can tell you though that nothing I sell involves any tragedy at all. Maybe that's why I feel this way and maybe that's why I've set up like this. I also find it much nicer and cleaner that way.
                Fair enough!

                Sometimes the fact that I can discuss passionate subjects somewhat dispassionately makes me seem cold and callous. Not true. I have emotions. I get outraged like others do. But if we are discussing business, I prefer to do so as logically as I can.

                Here is what I consider a logical argument on this topic.

                Every year thousands of human tragedies happen. terrible crimes that no one outside of a few miles hears about. Just as bad as anything that makes national news. But some cases - Natalie Holloway, Casey Anthony, OJ, Robert Blake, Michael Jackson and so many others - become a public obsession. Millions follow the cases, devouring every new bit of news or speculation.

                When there is that much interest, some will make money. The only question is will you be among them?

                How many of these tragedies have been made into true crime and thinly-veiled novels? How many have been made into films and documentaries? How many have shown up on A&E, Discovery, History and other channels? How many have become the plot of "ripped from the headlines" TV shows like the various Law and Order shows or CSI? And how many news channels ignore far more important stories to cover these cases?

                They do it for money. Profit. They aren't serving the public, they are selling the public.

                And it is somehow wrong for Internet marketers to profit from these things? Why? Are we above it all? Holier? Sorry, I don't buy it.

                Now, every marketer can decide whether to profit from such events - crime , death, disaster. And they can decide what to think of those who do. That's a personal choice. But a personal choices binds no one but that person.

                And I might add that, for anyone who thinks making money off these things is disgusting or immoral, if you are part of the millions filled with morbid curiosity about such things, you are just as much a part of the problem as those you despise. If there is no market, there is no profit.
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Ram,

                  I don't profit off this stuff and I don't like the people that set up sites as in this example. I also don't tend to let people or what they do get under my skin. That's why I said "each to their own" but I do side with people like Johnny on this one because they have been there. They have lost kids and until you've been there, which, granted, you may have, that's just the way I feel.

                  I do however stand up and commend you on the way you put your point across, the way you hold yourself together in a dignified manner while you do so and I can see you're someone with a very clever mind.

                  I don't necessarily like the news and others profiting from it either and I don't think two wrongs make a right but we are all different and we can do as we please, no matter what the consequences.

                  And I might add that, for anyone who thinks making money off these things is disgusting or immoral, if you are part of the millions filled with morbid curiosity about such things, you are just as much a part of the problem as those you despise. If there is no market, there is no profit.
                  This I agree with. Without morbid curiosity, there is no market for it.

                  Ram, so long as one can sleep at night, one shouldn't spend much time thinking about it. I agree in essence with your arguement but I wouldn't do it personally. This is my choice as yours belongs to you.

                  Incidentally I never thought you came across as cold or callous, more calm and analytical. I've enjoyed reading your opinions on the matter.
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                • Profile picture of the author barbling
                  Originally Posted by Ram View Post

                  And I might add that, for anyone who thinks making money off these things is disgusting or immoral, if you are part of the millions filled with morbid curiosity about such things, you are just as much a part of the problem as those you despise. If there is no market, there is no profit.
                  Gold! Very very true indeed (and something that makes me despair at times for the human race).
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Ram View Post

        If it was? Maybe. I guarantee that if you follow the story on most major news sites, magazine sites, blog sites, etc, you will see ads and often adsense running right beside it. Doesn't seem to bother them. And frankly, a missing kid is not big national news unless the media decides it is. Kids go missing every day, every city, every state and you never ever read a word about it.
        Please ... reporting news and the news organizations making a profit is a whole lot different from a creepy little splogger putting up a single news site with a COMPLETELY BOGUS DUMMY tip form to make it appear that it accepts tips to further the investigation to find this child.

        If it's ok with you, that's your ethics but many marketers would not stoop that low. It isn't about making a profit from news. It's about the dummy tip form.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ram
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          It isn't about making a profit from news. It's about the dummy tip form.
          Actually, that's not what this is about. The OP asked should we make a profit from tragedy. He did not ask if we should set up a page with a dummy tip form.
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  • Profile picture of the author kaper7
    It is acceptable if you setup a site like that and all the proceeds goes the family to further enhance their search.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by kaper7 View Post

      It is acceptable if you setup a site like that and all the proceeds goes the family to further enhance their search.
      IF the tip form actually submitted tips to LEOs or IF the form wasn't there at all, it would go from being the POS that is there to merely tacky, tasteless and exploitative.

      If the site owner really wanted to provide a way to make donations, a simple PayPal button or similar would likely be far more effective.
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  • Profile picture of the author asmartbuy
    Yeh, that website was for complete profit. Disgusting to say the least. >
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  • Profile picture of the author MajonInt
    So wrong! Well the universe will take care of this person. They could have at least forwarded leads directly to the authorities rather than do nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author steven sanderson
    No i do not think anyone should profit from other peoples tragedies, obviously people do, but for me personally i would rather pack in my whole business than resort to tactics like that. Don't get me wrong, i am all for promoting extra exposure if it is going to help a situation, but it would be great in an ideal world to be able to do this without profiting, and if profiting could not be helped when creating exposure then all monies made should go towards the unfortunate people who are suffering.

    All the best,
    Steven.
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  • Profile picture of the author VZ9
    Questions like this, assuming outside the bounds of any legal implications, are a matter of prudential judgement. We, as individuals, have the right to consult our own moral compass and decide what is it that we feel comfortable doing.

    This should not be looked down upon, depending on which route someone chooses; it should, however, be celebrated that we live in a free enough civilization that we have this freedom of expression.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Well, he most likely is no longer profiting from his little splog with the dummy tip form. It appears that he may read the Warrior Forum. His dummy tip form has disappeared and his site has also disappeared in the serps.

    It was on page one. Now it's moved to Page Three. Short term thinking (if you want to call it that) for short term profit.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joan Haynes
    I think everything has its place & lines are drawn. If that is the only way I could make money is off of such a tragedy, then I am not too bright. I could not live with myself & my conscience would beat me to death.

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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by VZ9 View Post

      Questions like this, assuming outside the bounds of any legal implications, are a matter of prudential judgement. We, as individuals, have the right to consult our own moral compass and decide what is it that we feel comfortable doing.

      This should not be looked down upon, depending on which route someone chooses; it should, however, be celebrated that we live in a free enough civilization that we have this freedom of expression.
      I have consulted my own moral compass. It tells me that down is the only direction I can look if I want to see this profiteering little parasite...
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  • Profile picture of the author mstewart
    It is really bad to get money from this kind of tragedy.While if the money get from this will finally be used to decrease the tragedy,this will be ok.
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  • Profile picture of the author savvybizbuilder
    Business should be separated from our personal feelings. There's nothing bad about that. Embalmer or funerals makes money from the dead and it's not wrong at all as long as it is pure business. Don't worry.
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  • Profile picture of the author mstewart
    It is really bad to get profit from such a tragedy.While from this case, we could learn something about getting profit from the latest news or similiar,not tragedy of course.
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  • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
    What matters is that if you can live with yourself at the end of the day. Ethical or non-ethical it all depends on your own beliefs, as the gross of ethics people maintain derive from their personal environment.

    Ask yourself the question.
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by StevenJones View Post

      What matters is that if you can live with yourself at the end of the day. Ethical or non-ethical it all depends on your own beliefs
      Yeah, you're right.

      I ran a guy over and killed him earlier. Luckily I can live with that and my beliefs are cool with it too so I drove to the pub and had a great time with my friends. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
        Sarcasm noted. I just hope you know that I was speaking of these sort of circumstances. Had the same debate earlier about deceased Steve Jobs.

        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Yeah, you're right.

        I ran a guy over and killed him earlier. Luckily I can live with that and my beliefs are cool with it too so I drove to the pub and had a great time with my friends. :rolleyes:
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        • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
          Originally Posted by StevenJones View Post

          I just hope you know that I was speaking of these sort of circumstances.
          You were talking about running over people? When you said this?

          What matters is that if you can live with yourself at the end of the day. Ethical or non-ethical it all depends on your own beliefs, as the gross of ethics people maintain derive from their personal environment.

          Ask yourself the question.
          I was just having a joke because I think that statement can be taken very literally. I'm just saying if you ran a guy over you may be able to live with it and it may fit in with your beliefs but as the brother, for example, of the deceased person, I may not find your beliefs ethical. I also may not be able to live with it and it may not fit in with my beliefs.

          Had the same debate earlier about deceased Steve Jobs.
          What do you mean? I know the scammers came out in full after he died to get people to win a free Ipad by filling in the CPA offer or leaving their details so they could get on a spam list. Point is the media called all these people scammers.

          If that's not what you meant, apologies. What did you mean? Or have I just gone off on a tangent about Steve Jobs?
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