Where Have The Real Business Builders Gone?

by sal64
30 replies
There's a lot of questions asked on this forum about free methods, how to make a quick buck and so on...

But, I'd be interested to know if you are looking at spare cash or looking to build a long-term sustainable business that will support you and your family.

The old saying is that if you treat it as a hobby, you'll get hobby expenses... but if you treat it like a business, you'll make business profits (or words to that effect).

My view is that whatever you do, it's going to take up time and money, ok? So if you're going to do that, why not use those resources to build a real business?

You don't have to become the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. And hell, it might take a while longer to see real income because you'd have to reinvest your income and grow the business.

But time, focus and patience will net you far bigger results in the long run than a slap-dash approach of trying all sorts of things.

Learn to crawl, then walk and then run. At the risk of being criticised, don't set yourself ridiculous expectations and income targets. Why?

Because if you cannot live up to your own expectations, it's going to give you a sense of failure and also it puts you under unwarranted pressure... and that's when we start to make irrational decisions.. and worse still... we quit and join the non-believers who say that this industry is a crock of BS.

The truth is that sound business principles apply to offline and online businesses.

We are quick to brand systems as scams... brand gurus as money sucking parasites etc, but the truth is - and I can speak from experience from working with a few - that all of these people that continue to thrive have done so by building a real business.

They have a real business, with real systems and employ real people. Now not everyone aspires to that level. I am happy to work from home and spend time with my kids. As long as I make enough, I'm happy. But the key is that I have a real business in place that feeds my family.

Those that went for the quick buck have fallen by the wayside. Don't believe me? Just monitor this forum for any significant length of time and see how quickly posters disappear into the abyss.

Now I know that this can seem a distant dream for most of us because we have family, jobs etc... and sh!t (life) happens. But you gotta hang tough. Build the foundations correctly and your house will be something to behold.

Ignore the foundations and you'll end up with a very crooked house that is likely to collapse sooner rather than later.

There are often quotations that resonate and stick with us forever. One of my favourites was by T. Harv Ecker...

"If you're going to work hard anyway, you may as well get rich and do it as quickly as possible".

So if you're going to spend time and money in this industry, build a business that serves you for many years to come.

Best of success to you all.

Sal
#builders #business #real
  • Profile picture of the author stevenjacobs
    Banned
    Yeah Internet marketing is about building a long term income , and have a established revenue source and having long term plans. It is not get rich quick scheme, make money in 4 hours.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Some of you may remember a fellow named Jermaine Griggs. His main business is a site that offers "play piano by ear" instruction. A few years ago, he had one of those big product launches with a big-name guru type.

      I had forgotten all about Jermaine until I saw him on TV the other night. He and his family were on HGTV's "House Hunters" show. The family was hunting for their dream home, with a $1.5 million budget.

      Keep the faith and build a real business.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Bluntly, if people are here as a last ditch bid to make some money... then they are better off just getting another job.

    The mistake I see - and have made myself - is to immediately redraw income to fund your lifestyle. This was a bad move and if I had my time again, I would would have stuck with my job for another year and reinvested on line income to grow the business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      Bluntly, if people are here as a last ditch bid to make some money... then they are better off just getting another job.

      The mistake I see - and have made myself - is to immediately redraw income to fund your lifestyle. This was a bad move and if I had my time again, I would would have stuck with my job for another year and reinvested on line income to grow the business.
      Eeeexactly!

      I lost my job last year, which brought the unexpected blessing of allowing me the time and money (from retirement funds) to coach with my mentor, build the framework for my long-term dream business, and write and publish my first book. It was all so unexpected. And SUCH a tremendous opportunity.

      But even thousands of dollars in retirement funds doesn't last forever and I ran out. I spent the money very intentionally, so no regrets about where it went, but I still had to get a JOB, which took a while to find.

      I've been at that job now for nearly 3 months. The pay is HORRIBLE, but... I work from home! It's a huge blessing to be able to cover my very basic expenses while building my dream business. At least I'm not in the desperate position of trying to pay my light bill or put food on the table with a yet-to-be-born business.

      Desperation is never a good place to start from and in spite of the millionaires who started their businesses from their cars because they were homeless, it's not something I'd recommend for most of us. Prospects can smell fear and desperation from a mile away and you aren't at your best when you're in that place either.

      If your heart is set on your own IM business, it can be the hardest thing in the world to go back and get a job, especially if you've already lost or quit your previous job and are on your way to building your new business. It feels like going backward -- or even failing. (Ask me how I know...) But it doesn't take long to become REALLY desperate without ANY income. If nothing else, you need to be able to cover your basic living expenses while building your business and preferably be able to scrape a little bit of operating capital together.

      You'll do much better when you can cover your basic living expenses with other income. My job just barely covers the most basic living expenses with almost nothing left over. But maybe that's perfect too. It'll keep me motivated and hungry.

      Michelle
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    • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      I would would have stuck with my job for another year and reinvested on line income to grow the business.
      In many ways you can enjoy both, and I never really did understand those people peddling the new direction to newbies, leave your job and make millions crap.

      Most people if unsure should keep their jobs and learn part time, then reinvest the earnings and learnings if they have the luxury of a paid job as a backup base.

      They may even find that after time and learning and with todays marketing opportunities / those off-liners that you can blend job / on-line work in many ways - who knows your on-line gig may get very busy and because of those skills you have gained you may find business / employers who will also pay a lot for your skills landing you very lucrative local / state / national international gigs, at this point you can fire your old JOB and employ yourself.
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      | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
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  • Profile picture of the author TheInternet
    Most people have trouble dealing with delayed reward. It's easy to build a fragile but profitable thing that falls apart if you look at it from the wrong angle, and hard to build something just as or more profitable that lasts.

    I made the mistake of looking for the quick solution for a long time before I realized how important it is to build something to last.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Originally Posted by TheInternet View Post

      Most people have trouble dealing with delayed reward. It's easy to build a fragile but profitable thing that falls apart if you look at it from the wrong angle, and hard to build something just as or more profitable that lasts.

      I made the mistake of looking for the quick solution for a long time before I realized how important it is to build something to last.
      Good comment about delayed rewards.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheInternet
        Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

        Good comment about delayed rewards.
        Your thread made me think of the Stanford marshmallow experiment (which I can't link due to not having enough posts).

        With IM you can get one marshmallow now, or you can have a lifetime of marshmallows if you're willing to wait a little while.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheInternet
      Originally Posted by TheInternet View Post

      Most people have trouble dealing with delayed reward. It's easy to build a fragile but profitable thing that falls apart if you look at it from the wrong angle, and hard to build something just as or more profitable that lasts.

      I made the mistake of looking for the quick solution for a long time before I realized how important it is to build something to last.
      Building on this now that I have some sleep: I've had good luck studying the marketing campaigns for IM products instead of buying them. It's not as good as a good product, but it's free. Even lessons from a campaign for a junk product can be applied in an honest way.

      A lot of people trying to get rich on the web underestimate how much free advice can be gleaned by reverse-engineering the world around them.

      This is how people learn to program, do art, write, and do anything creative. Why would building a business be any different? You might go some distance with dark SEO incantations, praying to the gods (randomly selected affiliate products on a sidebar), or reading tea leaves (MFA/spam blogs), but why bother when there's a world of free knowledge on building a real business already assembled?
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi TheInternet,

        Originally Posted by TheInternet View Post

        A lot of people trying to get rich on the web underestimate how much free advice can be gleaned by reverse-engineering the world around them.

        This is how people learn to program, do art, write, and do anything creative. Why would building a business be any different? You might go some distance with dark SEO incantations, praying to the gods (randomly selected affiliate products on a sidebar), or reading tea leaves (MFA/spam blogs), but why bother when there's a world of free knowledge on building a real business already assembled?
        I wholeheartedly agree, of course...

        Hi John,

        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Check out the movie "Tommy Boy" to get a look at the grim possibilities underlying the comedy.
        I haven't seen it, but would like to now after reading the plot. What an amazingly creative plot!
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Yes and they have a robust back end in place. Fire won't just be about ebooks... there's also movies, music etc.

        It is similar down here for cell phones where you get a free phone as long as you lock in for 24 months. What they lose on the phone, they make up in call charges after about 3 months.

        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I think Bezos is also an excellent study in building a business and not worrying about the short term. Amazon.com was unprofitable for a long time, but kept building and building until it's now a major retail outlet.

        The Kindle was a runaway success, further building on their empire. Along comes iPad. Bezos saw iPad as a great threat to Amazon, delivering it's Amazon book products on a device other than it's own.

        Along comes Kindle Fire... sold at a $25 loss per unit and it's the first tablet to really give the iPad a run for it's money in sales.

        Selling Kindle Fire at a loss cuts 73% from their earnings for this period over last year, but Amazon has never put earnings over market share. They'll make up the earnings selling their premium (and very affordable) service to the Kindle Fire, plus they'll have a huge tablet market share after all is said and done.

        Wall Street analysts, who's only focus is on money, money, money, don't think selling Kindle Fire so cheap is such a good idea.

        Jeff Bezos disagrees, and basically doesn't give a crap what Wall Street thinks. Interesting read.

        Amazon CEO Turns Deaf Ear to Wall Street Analysts - Forbes
        Let's not confuse clever marketing with building a business. Biz building extends way beyond that.

        It's not just metrics and numbers. There's also relationships and team building. And there's the product / service funnel.

        But as has been stated, not everyone aspires to that level. BUT... if people buy into the dream of getting wealthy and quitting their job, then they have to approach it accordingly.

        Originally Posted by TheInternet View Post

        Building on this now that I have some sleep: I've had good luck studying the marketing campaigns for IM products instead of buying them. It's not as good as a good product, but it's free. Even lessons from a campaign for a junk product can be applied in an honest way.

        A lot of people trying to get rich on the web underestimate how much free advice can be gleaned by reverse-engineering the world around them.

        This is how people learn to program, do art, write, and do anything creative. Why would building a business be any different? You might go some distance with dark SEO incantations, praying to the gods (randomly selected affiliate products on a sidebar), or reading tea leaves (MFA/spam blogs), but why bother when there's a world of free knowledge on building a real business already assembled?
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    I'm still here and I'm still working on a sustainable business model that not only see's success today but will see success tomorrow. I think its about how you run your business. A lot of people do this as a hobby for mad-money--which instantly gets blown or spent as soon as its made.

    I reinvested into a list, which had paid off. It's scaling up that I have had trouble with, due to lack of time. But with my SEO/marketing gig now gone, I have more time and have been working on pushing upward and beyond.

    Good thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      Way to go BP!!

      The disconnect is that I think many approach as a hobby for part time mad money... but get upset when hey don't make the big bucks. You can't have it both ways.

      Originally Posted by BloggingPro View Post

      I'm still here and I'm still working on a sustainable business model that not only see's success today but will see success tomorrow. I think its about how you run your business. A lot of people do this as a hobby for mad-money--which instantly gets blown or spent as soon as its made.

      I reinvested into a list, which had paid off. It's scaling up that I have had trouble with, due to lack of time. But with my SEO/marketing gig now gone, I have more time and have been working on pushing upward and beyond.

      Good thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author jwmann2
      That's just it. You can't make any real money fast in this internet biz. Takes hard work to get your site's SEO where it needs to be. Even when your work is getting out there, google isn't always indexing it right away. It takes time and perserverance, patience. I have heard that is unwise to spend your money off-site.
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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi sal64,

        It's helpful to also understand why so many are looking for easy money, rather than just suggest that everyone should try and build a long term business.

        It's clear to see that roughly 10% of the people who spend 'some money' on IM products are looking for that long term business and about 90% are the opposite and are looking for a 'side income.' (I just made those numbers up, but in my opinion they're reasonably accurate.)

        The average person stuck in a job they hate who desires to earn a little extra money has no real intention of, or desire to, learn the technical skills required to even put up a website.

        They don't want hassle, they don't want to have to learn skills which are in an area which is totally out of their sphere of understanding and they don't want to have to commit for the long term.

        The majority of offline opportunities for these people are either known, obvious scams, saturated, require too much start-up investment, are not known to these type of people or are simply impossible for them.

        The internet is still a relatively new phenomenon (these typically present opportunity) and many people who have no other skills have experience of using a keyboard, a PC etc. So they figure that they have some kind of head-start, in comparison to the average offline venture.

        There is a lot of talk floating around about how youtube and facebook started in a basement and how the barrier for entry is low on the internet.

        All of these reasons (and more) encourage people seeking 'a little extra income' to head for the internet and areas of IM. Many of them are actually looking to get rich quick.

        The problem is that because these people have no desire to actually leave their comfort zone, the average IM product and the tasks it suggests are way beyond what these people are capable of.

        What I see around me are a lot of people offering these new arrivals solid blueprints, sold without too much hype, which could teach these people how to learn skills and build a business in the long term. The sellers of these products get frustrated at their low sales.

        Therefore there is a much larger group, who truly understand the market but have no qualms about ripping these people off.

        They prepare products which have rehashed, average, often outdated and useless information in them (typically known as 'fast cash schemes') which are dressed up with hype and promises tailored in their salesletters purely to attract these lazy, comfort-zone hogging arrivals and to take their cash.

        The buyers will then take a look at the product, maybe have a go at it and fail to make much money, the majority will read it and not even try and just go back to the day-jobs which they hate muttering to themselves that they tried by buying a manual, but it was a scam. Many of them know deep down that they baulked at the idea of hard work and learning new skills which aren't so easy to understand.

        It's a dilemma for the average IMer, because the market for those who want to actually learn and work hard and possibly finish working in the rat race and run a business is much, much smaller.

        The truth is that running even a great business involves a lot of stress, risk, work and uncertainty.

        Most people don't have the intestinal fortitude for it and are already so laden with financial commitments which are tied in with their stability and family unit that they are simply chained to their job and the 'security' it offers. It works this way for a reason.

        Therefore the scammy get rich quick market will never go away and honest sellers of solid, long term business plans will have to work much harder than the hype merchants and will continually face a dilemma about whether to continue to struggle or to sell their soul, unless of course, that never presented a dilemma for them in the first place.

        Sad but true, in my experience.
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      • Profile picture of the author peterlaz
        During the last 4 year period I developed ten in-depth amazon product review sites on various niches. Pumped back every penny earned and full time income to hire writers, graphics designers and SEO specialist. As a professional manager I was fully aware of the time it takes to create and run a viable business. I was never taken to short time gains and invested in a lot of expensive education and tools.

        Have been averaging about $3,000 a month for the 15 months or so as an Amazon affiliate. Left my full time employment after the last Christmas. Now things have taken a turn for the worst. First I was banned from Adwords - purportedly for poor quality score of ads (whatever that means!). Since the beginning of March this year most of my sites started to loose their SERP ranking.

        Lately Google has become very unpredictable and their algorithmic changes does not make sense. As an ethical webmaster committed to value creation for my site visitors, I adhered to their guidelines to the letter. All my contents were original and well researched, and no one can argue their value to users who are searching for unbiased independent reviews. Spent countless hours building backlinks. My sites used to appear on the top 5 position on Google.

        I can't fathom what is the problem. Can one really succeed in IM even if he is a "Real Business Builder"? As usual there are no firm answers for anything in IM. The risks are too many and everything seem unpredictable. The money that I earned was not easy money. If fact it was not much different form what I was earning full time. But I was committed to the future hoping to make better in the months to come with more hard work.

        I am now disillusioned and lost! Should I persevere or give up? With Panda and what not, can one really make it big in IM? Corporations have discovered that search engines are a good place to market their products and they are doing it in a big way. Do affiliates really stand anymore chance? The search engines seems to be favoring the big guys!

        My mistake was to depend too much on Google. Almost 90% of my traffic came via Google. But as for alternative traffic what choice do you really have? I have tried Bing and Facebook PPC without much success. The revenue can't cover costs. I have not really found anything viable to sustain similar income levels.

        If you are not on the first ten on the SERPs then you not going to get much traffic. Imagine the number of sites competing for that spot. There are no clear cut rules on how you appear on the top ten. Above all keeping your position is also difficult as thousands of big companies and affiliates are also vying for the top ten positions.

        Seriously, wondering should I go back to full time employment as funds are depleting fast. The problem now is I am having difficulty updating my resume. It seems like I can never work for any employer anymore, but I cannot see any future for my online business!
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi peterlaz,

          That's a sad story, but it's one of many.

          Here are my thoughts, based on some fundamental realisations that I have had to come to through self-education in recent times -

          Lately Google has become very unpredictable and their algorithmic changes does not make sense.
          Their algorithmic changes have never and will never make any sense to you or I, until we comprehend that -

          a) they are a massive corporation

          b) if they made sense, they would be reverse-engineerable

          They are designed not to make sense to you or I, but it is possible to apply one logical rule to them, which is - refer back to a) - (read into that what you will, as you already have).

          This next quote and reply relates back to a) above as well -

          Corporations have discovered that search engines are a good place to market their products and they are doing it in a big way. Do affiliates really stand anymore chance? The search engines seems to be favoring the big guys!
          'Discovered?' Hmmm. Don't sound so surprised.

          When I make comment on these things, there is always instant blow-back from certain quarters. Regardless, this doesn't change my opinions. In some ways, you've got to work it out for yourself because trying to discuss it in public is generally futile.

          For example, I just spent the last hour reading this article -

          Guest Post: Eric Janszen: We Are Witnessing The Death Of The Dollar | ZeroHedge

          Plus, I read all of the comments - which is important. If you discard about 50% of the comments and concentrate on the other half which are close to the mark, you may get a general picture of what is going on in our world and how it has come to this. What happens next is probably impossible to predict, but it's logical to assume that only the strong, the wise and the crooked will survive and prosper.

          But my point in mentioning it is that when you take the perspective of trying to see the big picture, the smaller things become a lot clearer.

          In order to understand what's going on in online business, it helps to understand what's going on in global business and global affairs in general. But try and tell IMers this in an IM forum and you will be shouted down by the majority, calling you a swivel-eyed lunatic with a tin-foil hat. Then they run off to Fiverr in order to 'make bank' to feed their kids.

          For the record, most of the projects I have participated in online as an affiliate have fundamental flaws to them -

          a) cookie-based business is unreliable, prone to underhandedness and the odds are heavily stacked in favour of the vendor. Browser issues alone should tell you this. Look closer and you'll see stuffing all over the place.

          b) at some point, most large affiliate programs become null and void because the website in question is globally recognised as the place to go for XYZ.

          c) if your income is dependent on an algorithm you are going to end up sorry. Algorithms are used to hide a multitude of sins, but made out to look like a necessity.

          Of course, many people have been very successful with affiliate marketing, myself included. But you should always be aware that you are placing yourself into the lower regions of something resembling a pyramid or ponzi scheme, into a system that largely depends on trust, which is mostly foolish in the anonymous online environment.

          It's also a system designed and tweaked by the vendor which invites lesser skilled, funded and capable people to earn some crumbs. Do the bookies or the casinos ever lose in the end?
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
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    I made the same mistakes that most newbies make when I first started. It's very easy to get into Internet marketing thinking only of making fast money. So many of the products that target newbies promise that. You rarely see headlines like,

    BUILD A LONG TERM BUSINESS. THIS WILL TAKE SOME TIME BUT WILL BE WORTH IT. BE PREPARED TO WORK YOUR BUTT OFF TO GET THERE.

    lol. I guarantee you that would be a lonely WSO.

    Once you're done trying all the shiny objects and your sick of chasing short term profits, it's time to focus on building a long term business. Some will give up before they get to that point, but others will "get it" finally and get started on their businesses.

    Some think it's too much work. It is work, but when you consider how much work is involved in starting over and over again with short term methods to keep a consistent income, you realize that you're spending a lot of time building nothing. It's really a no brainer at that point. Build a sustainable business or build nothing. Easy choice.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tony_Brayley
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I made the same mistakes that most newbies make when I first started. It's very easy to get into Internet marketing thinking only of making fast money. So many of the products that target newbies promise that. You rarely see headlines like,

      BUILD A LONG TERM BUSINESS. THIS WILL TAKE SOME TIME BUT WILL BE WORTH IT. BE PREPARED TO WORK YOUR BUTT OFF TO GET THERE.

      lol. I guarantee you that would be a lonely WSO.

      Once you're done trying all the shiny objects and your sick of chasing short term profits, it's time to focus on building a long term business. Some will give up before they get to that point, but others will "get it" finally and get started on their businesses.

      Some think it's too much work. It is work, but when you consider how much work is involved in starting over and over again with short term methods to keep a consistent income, you realize that you're spending a lot of time building nothing. It's really a no brainer at that point. Build a sustainable business or build nothing. Easy choice.
      Truly, sage advice.

      This last thought is brilliant:

      Some think it's too much work. It is work, but when you consider how much work is involved in starting over and over again with short term methods to keep a consistent income, you realize that you're spending a lot of time building nothing. It's really a no brainer at that point. Build a sustainable business or build nothing...

      Very well put and so true. I am guilty of this myself.

      Thank you for the eye-opener!

      Best,

      Tony.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    Sal, great post and great additions. I also agree with what Suzanne said.

    Having built several successful offline businesses, I had the correct expectation of what kind of time and money that would take and the risk involved (half of all offline businesses fail their first year.)

    However, like Suzanne said, with all the flashy headlines of making money fast online, even I was taken in for a while.

    Once I wrapped my head around that "Yes, this is another business just like any other I've started". Then that is when I started making real progress.

    Now, I am working only with the future in mind.

    However, you know what the interesting things was----as soon as I realized this was a business and started building systems for a long term sustainable business, I made more money immediately, too.

    I'm not talking about millions, but would be a good extra income for most people already to make a house or car payment.

    I hope some other newbies read this thread so that they can skip the learning curve.
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    • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
      It wasn't until I started to hang out with other internet marketers that I was finally able to understand the difference between building a real business or treating it like a hobby.

      One thing that stuck with me that Jim Cockrum said in an interview was "affiliate marketing is not a business."

      Before I was laid off and forced to make a full time living with internet marketing, I found that affiliate commissions were great, but they weren't consistent. One month I would make $5,000, then $2,000, then $1,000, then $300, etc...

      Now when I make affiliate commissions I just count it as extra money.
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    sal64...

    To confirm your post, I will now proceed to face my humility and greatest fears.

    Also, what sbucciarel said above is so freaking true!!!

    I initially came here (into IM) with the forethought and desire to build and establish a real business, and am steadily fighting what at times appears an uphill battle to maintain that very mindset, due to the amount of crap one must wade through to get to the real goods.

    While by comparison to many of the long-term Warriors whom share valuable insight day in and day out here on the forum with their success, I still feel a touch intimidated by the amount of work it took them and yourself to reach the full-time income level, respectively.

    Having had prior offline small business experience, I think that has helped a great deal in the mindset department and within a few different aspects of the IM world while undergoing the process of building an online business.

    While the recipes used to create success online, are a bit differing by comparison to my prior offline business in regard to the technical and computing aspects... the hard work, mastering of tools, planning, creating blueprints, and the actual construction process all share the same ingredients.

    I often say; "The recipes may change, but the main ingredients for success remain unchanged"

    Sh!T I won't lie, my expectations were that I'd be making decent money already, or generating at least a grand per week. :rolleyes:

    However, there's several good reasons why I am not.

    1.) I am not in this for the short-term, and thus, refuse to rush into anything without the proper knowledge to stand behind the products I promote, create, sell, or even refer.

    2.) The learning curve was/is brutal, and within the subtle simplicities of creating a decent website, blog, or niche site there are several factors, trade skills, and businesses just on the forefront of IM, ...let alone learning all that goes on behind the scenes (i.e. ftp, HTML, php, css, graphics, writing links, redirects, security, plugins, etc...)

    -Or that go into learning the proper marketing methods; (i.e. article syndication, affiliate marketing, drop-ship, eCommerce, email marketing, product creation, SEO, uploading/downloading and the seamless delivery of digital products, etc...)

    -Once those fundamentals were acquired, and I had some 'basic' knowledge of the process, it lead to creating sales funnels, pre-selling, up-sells, down-sells, cross-selling, marketing strategy, psychology, and investigating the real dynamics of selling, email follow-ups, broadcasts, etc... *where I am right now!

    -Finally, after 7 months working the full-time job, and putting in at least 7+ hours a day online (every day) I can finally say I have a detailed mind map, a plan, the structural foundation laid, and feel confident I am almost ready to make a run at this equipped with the tools and knowledge to succeed, and create a real online presence and business.

    Oh, and for the record, I will openly admit, of the 7 hours I put in daily online, maybe 25-30% was actually productive! -This is definitely an area I need to work on... time management!

    Now for the downside, I just got laid off, lost my residence (with the job) filed unemployment for the first time in my 39 years, and face a HUGE decision...

    A.) Can I rough it for 30, 60, maybe 90 days w/unemployment and devote all this knowledge to go hard 80-90+ hours per week and make a solid run at just going for it full-time online?

    OR

    Do I go take a low paying job... which I know is a dead end, and risk everything I have invested and the burning desire NOT to replace the loss of my job with another negative?

    Yes, I said it... the job sucked, interfered with my online focus, and didn't pay sh!t anyway!

    Truth is, for all practical points and purposes, I am looking for another job while contemplating the above decision. By now, you'd think I'd be whipping out articles or something, but I am stubborn to believe that is any different than a low paying job!

    With 15 years prior self-employment, I cannot rationalize "how" $8-$10 can justify my expertise or the fact I have hands-on experience in a multitude of offline trades, and yet... today's economy has devalued those skills so severely, it's almost not even worth the effort.

    When I exploring the cost ratio between my prior offline business experience -vs- the online business... my online operations are at least 1/100th of the investments I made regularly offline.

    I am damn near ready to sell everything, and risk it all, rather than spend $20 a day driving to a $10 per hour job! -The problem is convincing the wife and kids, we'll muddle through this.

    In truth and absolution, the money I have invested online wouldn't cover the fuel expenses I paid for years offline to drive to the job sites, let alone the tools, heavy equipment, insurances, legalities, etc... I spent at least $500 per week to average $1750-$2,000 week .

    On that note, a job unlike my old business can and will carry me, and I have NOT ruled it out, naturally.

    However, as I ponder my decision, I have 3 leads for side work offline which remain in limbo awaiting answer (2 of those are with people I don't feel are trustworthy), and of 7-8 online plans, 2 are well-thought out(and ethical) in my pursuit to regain self-employment.

    The irony being, as I am writing this, I was just watching the show "Gold Rush" and I can't help but weigh the gravity of these guys constant challenges and unfortunate circumstances, as they share a similar strand of irony... as the events that just unfolded in my current experiences.

    *Namely caused by greedy people wanting to cut corners, jobs, and cutting the throats of those who do the most good, and the brunt of the work!

    While I seek no pity, no sympathy, nor something for nothing, I will NOT be complete until I have my online business generating a suitable income to support my family and to be able to never look back.

    So, though I meant not to take away from your thread, I hope my contribution bridges some reality to those newcomers who are looking to make $1k per week after being here for 30 days and putting in 1-2 hours per day.

    I cannot bring myself to sling rehashed WSO's or push reviews on the latest "push-button magic software" so I guess; I'm somewhere between crawling and walking right now.

    Recap, 7 months in, minimal cash invested $4k (well spent IMHO), approximately 1,470 hours (*mostly studying and applying the knowledge gained)

    -Only 10 sales to date (*under $200 made) and yet, the ability to maintain the confidence to know; hitting 6 figures within the next 12-18 months is absolutely doable within my blueprint...priceless!!!

    ...Oddly enough, my greatest concern right now is keeping my internet bill paid, a roof overhead, and NOT letting the chaos distract my desire to persevere, and staying focused on why I am doing this...

    To reestablish control of my time, my finances, and most of all for my family. Self-employment is the ONLY way I know how to do that BTW, cause hourly jobs just don't cut it!

    All the Best,

    Art
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    Hi Art,

    I know exactly how you feel. I used to have my own offline business for ten years. Then it crashed and burned - taking me down with it. I eventually found another great job, only to get retrenched three years later. Ever since then I have been eaking out a survival existance on consulting and bookkeeping work. I have a day job now which keeps the roof over my head but I HATE working for a boss.

    Once you have been self-employed, you become un-employable.

    So now my days consist of: my day job, taxi run to pick the kids from school, cook lunch, clean house, washing and ironing, cook dinner, get kids settled and then spend three hours in the evening working on my internet business.

    The last four months I have managed to get the basics under my belt but only the very basics. I have such a long way to go, but I will get there.

    Just a note: not having regular income (as small as it may be) is NOT worth the stress and pressure it will put on you and your family. Better to suck it up and take the job. Then build your empire after hours. It will be worth it.

    Just my humble opinion after years of terror at every month end

    Di
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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    Thanks Di,

    I almost stopped myself from posting it, and after thinking about it, I feel no shame in the progress I have made so far.

    You are 100% right, after being self-employed an hourly job is a test in humility and quite humbling. We have 3 teenagers, and the wife, and I both worked 2 years for the prior employer.

    With little to no notice, the business was sold, and all the honest employees were let go, while the 'criminally minded' ones remained employed. It's almost laughable, when I think about it.

    Ultimately, reaching success often boils down to some form of sacrifice, be it money, labor, time, family, or rationalizing the difference between what we need, from that which we want.

    Might I will you great success!

    All the Best,

    -Art
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    Hey everyone...

    I am truly chuffed by the input and comments on this thread. I started it through the frustration I get in this place sometimes.

    So rather than hit a multi-quote button, thank you all for your contribution. This issue is close to my heart. And to hear other chime in - especially those who have built a real business liek Suzanne - as well as those who are just starting out but understand the concept... makes me warm and fuzzy.

    Hopefully the ones who need to hear this message will read this thread and take some important lessons from it.

    Carry on.

    Sal
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    You Won't See The Light Until You Open Your Eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    @Big Mike: Once again thank you for the clarity and wisdom.

    @Ex-Rat, I can see where you're coming from. As I said, life happens. But from most of the people I have spoken to at seminars, they truly want an alternative lifestyle away from the current mundane. So I guess that's why they are so vulnerable to the con jobs.

    I think from memory the only person who did well from building a business was Rich Schefren.

    It's not a sexy market at all.

    As a poster above shared his Amazon experience... and Mike summed it best... applying aa method for making money based on one income stream - and a 3rd party one - is not a secure way to build a biz.

    Look, I was doing great with my real estate products up until the GFC and my biz shut down over night. Luckily we had other streams in place as primary income, but if I was relying on those sales, I'd be on the street by now.

    John Reece stated that 1 is the riskiest number in IM... how prophetic.

    Anyway, on a lesser level, building a real business can be as simple as creating the systems required to run your enterprise as a well oiled machine. These systems ensure that everything is done when and as often as they should, and also allow you to scale up the business as you grow.

    And Mike.. I study the real gurus that you mentioned. I think the worship you mention comes from the guru catering / pandering to the person's needs and wants. They are selling back the dream and affirming what the person wants to hear.

    It's very rare that a guru opens thier office to you and shows you how to run a business. Filsaime did it in Long Island a few years ago, and I was lucky to be coached and work with a guy who makes most of his $$ offline and from the stage.

    The cool part about the latter is that I toured with him and was able to have a beer with a few of the gurus such as Pierce and Morin etc... which is when they talk more openly.

    Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I think Bezos is also an excellent study in building a business and not worrying about the short term. Amazon.com was unprofitable for a long time, but kept building and building until it's now a major retail outlet.

    The Kindle was a runaway success, further building on their empire. Along comes iPad. Bezos saw iPad as a great threat to Amazon, delivering it's Amazon book products on a device other than it's own.

    Along comes Kindle Fire... sold at a $25 loss per unit and it's the first tablet to really give the iPad a run for it's money in sales.

    Selling Kindle Fire at a loss cuts 73% from their earnings for this period over last year, but Amazon has never put earnings over market share. They'll make up the earnings selling their premium (and very affordable) service to the Kindle Fire, plus they'll have a huge tablet market share after all is said and done.

    Wall Street analysts, who's only focus is on money, money, money, don't think selling Kindle Fire so cheap is such a good idea.

    Jeff Bezos disagrees, and basically doesn't give a crap what Wall Street thinks. Interesting read.

    Amazon CEO Turns Deaf Ear to Wall Street Analysts - Forbes
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      The error of trying to build a long-term business around a single product/service dependent on a third party is not unique to the online world.

      The bankruptcy court records are littered with companies whose businesses died with a change they were powerless to do anything about. The auto industry is a big source for this.

      Small companies tool up to provide a single part in huge quantities, and if that part is changed or eliminated, their business is gone. Check out the movie "Tommy Boy" to get a look at the grim possibilities underlying the comedy.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    I've worked with countless coaching clients and one
    of the most commonly recurring themes is the lack of
    a long term business plan.

    "I want to make money online" may be an admirable
    dream, but it doesn't make a great business objective!

    I'll try to avoid reiterating what's already been said in
    the above posts... But, there seems to be one particular
    skill that is sadly lacking in the Internet Marketing world
    and that's basic maths and accounting.

    It never ceases to amaze me that many people just don't
    understand that their business statistics are critically
    important. If you don't understand your numbers, you have
    virtually no chance of making a profit.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author robs132
    Of course, because people come to make money online, not to create a business.

    People don't but into the dream of building a business, they buy into the dream of making money easily online.

    Rob
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