Congress Censors The Internet? - Important Topic

42 replies
"On November 16th, Congress holds hearings on the first American Internet censorship system. This bill can pass. If it does, the Internet and free speech will never be the same". According To Firefox. I didn't hear much about this topic in the news.

  • Why?

    A few infringing links are enough to justify censoring an entire site, blocking good content along with the bad.
  • How?

    The US will be able to block a site's web traffic, ad traffic and search traffic using the same website censorship methods used by China, Iran and Syria.
  • Who's at risk?

    Your favorite websites both inside and outside the US could be blocked based on an infringement claim.
  • Could this pass?

    Yes. The Stop Online Piracy Act and the PROTECT IP Act have widespread support in Congress and are expected to pass.


In what ways can this effective online businesses?
#censors #congress #important #internet #topic
  • Profile picture of the author Your Brand Ebooks
    Rob, do you have links to those acts? thx
    Signature
    ONCE UPON A TIME there was a Warrior named Bob. He was sad. And frustrated. You see, Warrior Bob spent every last nickel on Internet Marketing e-books. But nothing panned out. No traffic. No sales. He was one sad Bob. Then one day Bob found a bottle. He rubbed it and out came a Genie who granted him 3 wishes. For Wish #1 Bob asked for a pet Dragon. Wish Granted. For Wish #2, Bob wanted Warriors' websites seen by 53 million TV viewers, for under $5 per broadcast. The Genie said... (click here)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066449].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PLRExpress
    I was reading about this today. It would mean that companies like Google and Twitter - in fact, any sites that allow user generated content - would have to make sure that none of their users are putting out copyrighted material.

    This is obviously going to be extremely difficult to police if such a bill was passed. The internet seems to have grown too big for that. It would be a litigation nightmare.

    I can't see a bill like this being passed any time soon. While the concept makes sense, there are just too many gray areas.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066463].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066491].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by RobHiness View Post

    This bill can pass. If it does, the Internet and free speech will never be the same.
    "The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmour, 1993

    They've been trying to censor the internet for twenty years. The bills pass. The departments are formed. And nothing happens.

    Every few years, there is a new and different effort to censor the internet which might actually work.

    Except that it is neither, and it won't.

    Don't argue with these people. Don't fight these people. Leave them alone. Let them form their new department and staff it with idiots and try to do something that won't work. It will keep them busy.

    It's just like giving your infant the car keys to play with. Sure, it's POSSIBLE for someone with your car keys to get in the car and drive off and damage property or hurt people. But it's an infant. That's not going to happen.

    Give them the car keys already. Even if they do miraculously figure out how to get them into the ignition, it's not like they can reach the pedals.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066512].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author debra
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      "The internet interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmour, 1993

      They've been trying to censor the internet for twenty years. The bills pass. The departments are formed. And nothing happens.

      Every few years, there is a new and different effort to censor the internet which might actually work.

      Except that it is neither, and it won't.

      Don't argue with these people. Don't fight these people. Leave them alone. Let them form their new department and staff it with idiots and try to do something that won't work. It will keep them busy.

      It's just like giving your infant the car keys to play with. Sure, it's POSSIBLE for someone with your car keys to get in the car and drive off and damage property or hurt people. But it's an infant. That's not going to happen.

      Give them the car keys already. Even if they do miraculously figure out how to get them into the ignition, it's not like they can reach the pedals.
      I'd like to see how they intend to fund it...car keys are not. lol

      Better yet, I'd like to be the fly on the wall when the fight breaks out on who's going to be in charge. Then see them try to fund it.

      Now before you yell, The Tax Payer, let me remind you that the tax payer doesn't have the money anymore. It's been spent...many months, if not years, back. (think stimulus)
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067224].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    I agree 100% with CDarklock.

    But at the same time, still.. go sign the petition just to be sure.

    If for nothing else, do it for entertainment purposes. LOL
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066553].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    It could easily be censored if the bill requires ISPs and even hosts to install filters. Or just install them at the major routing points.

    Garrie
    Signature
    Screw You, NameCheap!
    $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:

    SAVEABUCKDOMAINS & DOLLARDOMAINSAVINGS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066789].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    The last I heard, this revision of the bill would force ISP's to comply with whatever the government said to do.

    So if they said to cut off access to their city, they have to do so.

    Like CD said, it has been proposed several times. Each time it gets shot down, so they make revisions and name it something else.

    However, its no longer uncommon for people to setup their own server and therefore, they ARE their own ISP. So I don't really see the point of focusing on this, when we could be focused on bringing our troops back to their families instead of paying to blow up countries, then paying to rebuild them..

    This government is screwed up man.. Thats the only reason I vote.. If things dont turn out how I wanted them to, then at least I tried to make a difference. Same with signing the petition. If it passes, oh well.. nothing I can do. But at least I tried to have a voice in the discussion.

    One of my favorite quotes that I live by has always been "You miss 100% of the shots you dont take."
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066818].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Targeted Traffic
      It betrays more than a decade of US policy and advocacy of Internet freedom...
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066901].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Let's demystify this a little and explain what this bill says.

    A court order can put your site on a list of sites all US ISPs must block.

    The attorney general can put your site on a list of sites that all US ISPs should block.

    Now stop and think about this a little.

    Getting a site onto the blacklist requires legal or political action.

    Now, yes, the attorney general can unilaterally tell all ISPs in the country to put your site on the blacklist. But let's not put too fine a point on it, shall we?

    If someone can convince the attorney general that your site needs to be blacklisted, you have got some pretty damn big problems.

    Even then, an awful lot of ISPs are not run by corporate tools. Most people in major metropolitan areas will have their choice of several ISPs who don't give a crap about the "suggested to block" list, and the major ISPs will have to compete with those ISPs. So because they can't exactly have regional directives about this sort of thing, the major ISPs won't use it either.

    Which leaves you the list that has to be amended by court order, and it's a lot faster and easier to move shop than it is to get a new court order.

    So when they say "you must block nasty.com," the good - um, I mean, not-so-good - people at nasty.com will just yank their server off the network, swap out the MAC address, assign a new IP, and throw it back online under nastier.com until the new court order comes through.

    Nothing changes. We just add some new rules to the game, and the bluefart players like these games.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5066927].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      If someone can convince the attorney general that your site needs to be blacklisted, you have got some pretty damn big problems.
      Actually, all you would need is to be perceived as creating a nuisance for TPTB to get your site blacklisted.

      Say for example a site like Shadowstats was deemed to be a source of irritation for the same folks that hate Wikileaks and poof, that domain name is now gone and worthless.

      The current set of laws being drawn up don't necessarily follow the same virtuous objectives of yore.

      ~Bill
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067143].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author FredJones
        Its absurd. All that they may do is block some specific websites. And those too, the massive ones. Think China blocking Google.

        And the block list will have to be explicit. There's no way that you can automate the block without causing chaos and opening up litigations. The state of the art of machine based recognition is nowhere as close ...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067193].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author timpears
        I would estimate that the US Congress spends 90% of their time fixing things that don't need to be fixed. Like most things, the web isn't perfect. However, it works fairly well the way it is. Keep your damn noes out of where it doesn't belong.
        Signature

        Tim Pears

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067202].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

        Actually, all you would need is to be perceived as creating a nuisance for TPTB to get your site blacklisted.
        In a vacuum? Yes.

        In the American political climate? No.

        The first and foremost concern of an established governing body is to perpetuate itself.

        They're not going to step all over normal people. They're going to use the new powers to make ultimately pointless gestures that will make the constituency cheer and vote for them again.
        Signature
        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067247].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    ^ Right, but for the people in a small town where there literally is only ONE provider, that would kinda suck.. Especially a town that is corrupt and driven by money, even when they dont use it for a thing. lol

    So if that ONE provider decided to blacklist stuff, or even shut off access completely (which this bill would give them the authority to do) that would mean moving to a whole different city, just to access the web (and make a living, in our cases)

    I just moved in a new washer & dryer yesterday... I really don't feel like moving it again, on top of all our other stuff.. ahaha
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067012].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      ^ Right, but for the people in a small town where there literally is only ONE provider, that would kinda suck..
      The last thing that provider wants to do is make a big gaping hole in the market where a competitor can come in and scoop up all their annoyed customers.

      Here's the key factor: where is the benefit?

      Imagine you have a company that is deciding whether or not to implement the "suggested to block" list.

      Block: Some customers are unhappy and will want to switch because of it.

      Don't block: Nothing happens.

      So then you have the "required to block" list. They don't have a choice, but neither does anyone else. Switching ISPs doesn't matter.

      Meanwhile, it's impossible to update the "required to block" list as fast as the pirates can update their operation, because - duh - they don't need a court order to move the server.

      They're just forcing decentralisation. The major pirate operations will simply split their efforts across a few hundred virtual servers that are actually all located on the same multihomed machine. It only takes one or two clicks and that entire server they just blocked is now up and running at a new location.

      Government doesn't know how to deal with this because they can't. That reality hasn't struck them yet, and until it does, we just have to let them keep banging their head against the wall.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067109].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067120].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      I like the way you think.
      We have to stop thinking along the lines of "access to information" and start thinking along the lines of "access to people."

      You could conceivably steal and copy every single product I release, every single post I make, even every single word I say.

      But you can't steal and copy me, any more than I can steal and copy you.

      The piracy is just going to get worse from the perspective of a vendor, and better from the perspective of a pirate. There are easily-visible solutions to the problems government can create, and the world will eventually solve the problem of "I need to download something from a location that changes every 12 hours without knowing anything more than the name of it."

      How many court orders can you get in 12 hours?

      I invested a lot of time and effort in the question of the piracy-proof business, and the fact is, it's you. That's what's piracy-proof.

      Memberships. Masterminds. Seminars. Coaching. Live broadcast. That's the future. That, or pumping out scads of pointless low-priced crap to stay just a little bit ahead of the piracy curve.

      The pirates will win. Assume they already have, and you'll be ahead of the game when everyone else is still whinging that the pirates cheated.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067188].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        I invested a lot of time and effort in the question of the piracy-proof business, and the fact is, it's you. That's what's piracy-proof.
        Oh trust me dude, I agree completely with what you're saying.

        But this part of your post made me chuckle - Get this:

        Years ago, like 13 years or something ago.. back when Yahoo chat rooms were the "big thing" - I actually had somebody steal MY picture, set it as their profile photo and then they tried to convince me that THEY were the real me..?!! LOLLLLLLLLL

        The only thing I can think of is "WTF"
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067257].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

          I actually had somebody steal MY picture, set it as their profile photo and then they tried to convince me that THEY were the real me..?!! LOLLLLLLLLL
          There is a digital art forum on the internet somewhere, and one of its members decided he really liked my name and would start using it.

          A couple years later, someone tried to hire me as an artist based on his work, and it took quite some time to convince him that even though it's an extremely unusual name... that wasn't me and I didn't know who it was. I referred him to my friend Jon Goosens instead.

          But it's surreal. I spent some time on that forum looking over the extensive post history of my alter ego, and over about eighteen months and a few thousand posts, this guy not only pretended to have my name... he dug up other things I was saying online and repeated them.

          It's vaguely creepy, and a little funny, but also kind of sad. Someone out there just decided one day that he'd rather be me, and spent a year and a half living out his fantasy in this little corner of the internet. I've no idea who it was.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067301].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Targeted Traffic
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            There is a digital art forum on the internet somewhere, and one of its members decided he really liked my name and would start using it.

            A couple years later, someone tried to hire me as an artist based on his work, and it took quite some time to convince him that even though it's an extremely unusual name... that wasn't me and I didn't know who it was. I referred him to my friend Jon Goosens instead.

            But it's surreal. I spent some time on that forum looking over the extensive post history of my alter ego, and over about eighteen months and a few thousand posts, this guy not only pretended to have my name... he dug up other things I was saying online and repeated them.

            It's vaguely creepy, and a little funny, but also kind of sad. Someone out there just decided one day that he'd rather be me, and spent a year and a half living out his fantasy in this little corner of the internet. I've no idea who it was.
            Wow...this is disturbingly creepy man...
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067420].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    Seriously ? !

    So, next time I go visit eBay, Amazon , fiverr, facebook, twitter or other website i may find it banned by ISP because I am sure a website with millions of users will certainly got some content somewhere to shut it down.

    I seen many bills lately for censoring the internet, since internet seems to be a big problem, my idea for next bill is simple, BAN THE INTERNET.

    This is cheaper than censoring it
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067325].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    omg.. wtf....

    That my friend, sounds just down right creepy as hell.

    I really hope you embrace the right to keep a firearm.

    Sure, we hope for the best. But you have to plan for the worst.

    So if you don't and you are legally allowed to carry one, please do so.

    But make sure its one that is going to work when you need it to. Don't go for some cheap Hi-Point and expect it to fire. You might not want to use deadly force, but if you should need to, its good to know that your weapon is going to work.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067346].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      I really hope you embrace the right to keep a firearm.
      I don't like guns. They malfunction far more often than I do, and aren't usually as fast or as effective.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067392].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author RobHiness
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        I don't like guns. They malfunction far more often than I do, and aren't usually as fast or as effective.
        Epic. Just Epic.
        Signature
        “It’s much easier to double your business by doubling your conversion rate than by doubling your traffic.”
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5078043].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author DogScout
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        I don't like guns. They malfunction far more often than I do, and aren't usually as fast or as effective.
        Yeah, I prefer Howitzers myself. Easier to keep myself amused while laying in ambush.

        I am still waiting for them to blacklist all the spam I get. (If they can't get that right, what makes anyone think they can get blocking a website right?????)


        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5078919].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    This bill will never pass unless Al Gore gives the go ahead, lol!
    Signature
    Hi
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067366].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Like I said, make sure you get a good one.

    There is a reason the police (and myself) trust our lives with GLOCK

    Attend some training classes first if you are uncomfortable with the idea, check out the local shooting range and get a feel for different calibers. Find something that makes YOU feel safe.

    I personally like the model 22. Same one the police use. 40 caliber, 15 shot magazines (for standard size, but you can upgrade to hold a LOT more) and then of course the 45 caliber models are more for stopping power than capacity.

    People seem to love 9mm, but I've found that the smaller the caliber, the more likely it is to jam. Even with regular cleaning, and regardless of the manufacturer.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067405].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      There is a reason the police (and myself) trust our lives with GLOCK
      I prefer the M1911. But the fact is, I can't be arsed to maintain one properly, and the way the laws are about keeping a handgun in the house... I prefer a series of strategically-placed rattan canes.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067465].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    So the hearings were today. What happened?
    Signature
    44 days in and we broke the $10K a month recurring bench mark.

    Guaranteed 60% Opt In Rate Traffic-Real People-Fresh Today-High Quality Biz Opp traffic![/URL]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067428].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    Great insights in this post... Especially this...

    The pirates will win. Assume they already have, and you'll be ahead of the game when everyone else is still whinging that the pirates cheated.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067456].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Fraggler
    Same thing happened here and nothing has really eventuated from it. The Government has more dangerous things coming through the stargate at the moment...

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067475].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    guys start sharing, I hope WF join the petition as well.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067561].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author pcpupil
    Yes,let us all not sign the document,let them make more agency's that us taxpayers can pay there wages,and we can put more government officials to work while the rest of the country starves.
    Gotta love this democracy thing.

    @ whosthatguru.
    Black powder.do not have to license.Even with no ammo,rocks work.
    Signature
    I will be your Digital Assistance for cheap.PM me.
    I can help relieve your work load.Pm me

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5067696].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Osman_M
    As the internet evolves day by day governments all across the world will try to regulate it cause they know where the money lies. I think this notion should be part of every long term business strategy especially involving the internet.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079302].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Censor the Internet? I have five words that should put your fears to rest...

      "National Do Not Call List"



      And screw the Glock...

      Give me a nice, dependable 12 gauge pump with the plug removed, loaded with 00 buckshot. Just the sound of the slide creates a reaction, and the buckshot has a fair amount of stopping power at short range.

      At long range, give me a .308.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079597].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        I think the law is awesome

        Just think of all the notices and counter-notices to be filed.

        Just think of all the mischief and abuses that will take place.

        Just think of all the lawsuits.

        There is going to be a lot of additional legal work. Nice to see the government finally doing something to increase the employment rate (of attorneys).

        .
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079670].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    I had a Mossberg 12 gauge (with the plug tho, so it only held 5+1) and yes, it was great. But you can't conceal it.

    And screw the buckshot - I like the 3" hollow-point magnums. Now THOSE are some bad-ass slugs.

    I took a friend out to the shooting range, loaded up a couple of 2 3/4 inch birdshot shells, then I put one of the 3 inch magnums behind those 2 birdshot.

    I told him "go ahead, shoot it a few times." He shot the first two, no problems. He was like "oh wow, that doesn't kick too bad after all!"

    So I'm like "see I told you it wasn't so bad, go ahead and shoot another one!"

    Well, he didn't know the next one was the 3 inch magnum. It was hilarious. He about fell over.. LMFAO

    I haven't laughed that hard in awhile man.

    And how can you say screw GLOCK??

    I hit like 12/16 shots from 100 yards away with that pistol.. 100 yards!

    I doubt most police officers have aim that good

    But anyway, getting back on topic here:

    Does anybody know what the outcome of the vote was?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079660].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Does anybody know what the outcome of the vote was?
      It was a judiciary hearing, not a vote. There is no definite outcome.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079679].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

        I had a Mossberg 12 gauge (with the plug tho, so it only held 5+1) and yes, it was great. But you can't conceal it.

        And screw the buckshot - I like the 3" hollow-point magnums. Now THOSE are some bad-ass slugs.

        I took a friend out to the shooting range, loaded up a couple of 2 3/4 inch birdshot shells, then I put one of the 3 inch magnums behind those 2 birdshot.

        I told him "go ahead, shoot it a few times." He shot the first two, no problems. He was like "oh wow, that doesn't kick too bad after all!"

        So I'm like "see I told you it wasn't so bad, go ahead and shoot another one!"

        Well, he didn't know the next one was the 3 inch magnum. It was hilarious. He about fell over.. LMFAO

        I haven't laughed that hard in awhile man.

        And how can you say screw GLOCK??

        I hit like 12/16 shots from 100 yards away with that pistol.. 100 yards!

        I doubt most police officers have aim that good

        But anyway, getting back on topic here:

        Does anybody know what the outcome of the vote was?
        You would have enjoyed watching people trying to shoot sporting clays with a 10 gauge bolt with 3.5" shells. Even the ones who knew what to expect were bruised for weeks.

        If you can hit 12/16 from 100 yards, under pressure, more power to you. I haven't shot much since moving to Florida, but I used to be able to double tap a head shot or chest shot at 25 yds about 8/10 tries.

        But if you hear that noise downstairs, your adrenaline is pumping, and your hands are shaking, I like the 12ga/buckshot combos ability to hit when aimed in the general direction of the target. And if I ever need to use a gun for defense, range won't be a problem...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079719].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author PatchesDM
    I saw this the other night, I participated in the protest on all my sites! Anyone else?
    Signature

    Affiliate links are not allowed.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079668].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RobHiness
    I haven't seen any update in the news or anything concerning if it was passed or not! But I'll be keeping my eyes open for any update.
    Signature
    “It’s much easier to double your business by doubling your conversion rate than by doubling your traffic.”
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5079669].message }}

Trending Topics