Some specific questions about Article Syndication

34 replies
I have some questions that I haven't found answers for. I tried to contact a person from here that does AS, but I think that person's email is not working. Anyway... here are my specific questions:

1. From your experience, how much time it takes your article to be syndicated?
Or rather, after how much time do you know it was a success/fail ? (I refer to when first starting out)

2. How do I approach ezines and bloggers ?
I have been told not to send a mass email to everyone, rather have a more personal email sent to each one of them. Is it fine to say something like : "My articles would fit great in your <x> category? " Is it enough?
Also, what do I say first : Hello, I would like you to syndicate my articles? I have no idea.

3. After I approach them and they agree, can I do mass email ? Or should I again be more personal?

4. How often can I email them a new article without looking needy ?
I only have 1 website at the moment. If I had 7 I could send each day one for each website...

Looking forward to replies!
#article #questions #specific #syndication
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by canyon View Post

    1. From your experience, how much time it takes your article to be syndicated?
    The sooner you start offering them for syndication, the sooner people can start syndicating them.

    Don't rely only on "passive syndication" (e.g. from Ezine Articles). It's true that you can get started that way (and I did) but it's slower, less reliable, more variable, and so on. It's an afterthought, not a "business plan".

    Originally Posted by canyon View Post

    Or rather, after how much time do you know it was a success/fail ?
    It depends how many articles you offer to how many potential publishers, what the demand is in the niche (i.e. how well you've researched it) and so on. These are all factors you can control yourself to a large extent. They're not things that "happen to you".

    Originally Posted by canyon View Post

    2. How do I approach ezines and bloggers ?
    I have been told not to send a mass email to everyone, rather have a more personal email sent to each one of them. Is it fine to say something like : "My articles would fit great in your <x> category? " Is it enough?
    No, in my opinion it's not nearly enough.

    You need to start by introducing yourself, explain your interest in their site/ezine/blog, and talk about the subject in general, showing them that you understand what you're talking about and that you're "on their side".

    Definitely in individual emails. (Of course, you can recycle a high proportion of their content, but send them out one at a time).

    Originally Posted by canyon View Post

    3. After I approach them and they agree, can I do mass email ? Or should I again be more personal?
    More personal.

    Once someone's on your syndication-list, the aim is to get to know them a little bit better and build a relationship with them. And then eventually you can send them a two line email saying "Hey - here's another article on XYZ - looking forward to seeing it on your site, as always - good luck and good wishes". As you can appreciate, you need to know them pretty well to do that.

    Originally Posted by canyon View Post

    4. How often can I email them a new article without looking needy ?
    It depends on their content needs. You get to learn this about each one. For myself, I don't have "too much content" for anyone on my list, because I write a little less than one article per niche per week, which doesn't really overload anyone.

    Originally Posted by canyon View Post

    I only have 1 website at the moment. If I had 7 I could send each day one for each website...
    Well, I have 8 altogether, but I can't quite manage to write one article per day (and you may not, either, unless your writing skills and experience are well beyond mine - which is possible, of course ). Articles written for syndication are time-consuming. If you find a way to write them quickly and still get them successfully syndicated, let us know.

    Just to clarify: I'm talking about one article per day in total. Not one article per day per niche: that would be absolutely impossible for me (without buying them), but fortunately it isn't necessary at all.

    Here's what I do with my articles, if it helps.

    These two resources may also help greatly ...

    Directory of Ezines (excellent but not cheap)

    Turn Words Into Traffic (excellent and cheap)
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    • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Well, I have 8 altogether, but I can't quite manage to write one article per day (and you may not, either, unless your writing skills and experience are well beyond mine - which is possible, of course ).
      A questions just popped into my mind: do you give out to syndication all the articles that you have on one website?

      If yes, then wouldn't you face the following problem: The reader comes to your website only to find that you do not have articles that she/he didn't read because all of your articles were syndicated(on the website where the reader comes from)? Why would the reader come again to your site then ?

      Or do you post other articles on your websites that are not syndicated?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by canyon View Post

        do you give out to syndication all the articles that you have on one website?
        It depends a little what you classify as an "article". I have, of course, plenty of other information on my sites (like all the product reviews, for a start) which are never syndicated. I don't consider them "articles", really ... but I've seen people putting some of that sort of stuff into article directories thinking that they are actually "articles".

        Originally Posted by canyon View Post

        If yes, then wouldn't you face the following problem: The reader comes to your website only to find that you do not have articles that she/he didn't read because all of your articles were syndicated(on the website where the reader comes from)?
        This certainly wouldn't happen. There's nothing on my entire landing page that they've seen before, anyway (and that's quite a bit of content, sometimes including what some people might call an "article" that isn't syndicated).

        The syndicated articles aren't on my sites primarily for first-time visitors to read them.

        They're all originally published and indexed there, of course, before I do anything else with them at all, but that's mostly for SEO purposes (yes, I do care a little bit about SEO when it's easy and free!).

        They're not hidden from visitors, don't get me wrong (and Google wouldn't like that) ... but they're not "prominent", either.

        My main purpose in getting visitors to my site, the first time, is to get them to opt in. And the entire initial landing page is designed with that in mind. At the same time, I want to show them that it is a content-rich site and not some sort of squeeze-page - that works less well for me (she says after extensive split-testing!).

        If someone stays on my site for long enough to discover that I have some content there that s/he's seen before, then s/he's a very welcome visitor indeed.

        Besides, the proportion of my entire article stock which any one site (from which a visitor might have come) will have re-published is usually pretty small. (Though, admittedly, when I'm just starting off a brand new niche site, that observation may not be quite so true.)
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  • Profile picture of the author TheJustWarrior
    I can tell you from fairly valid experience (enough for me to give up on it years ago-things may have changed) that article syndication is like pushing jello around.

    Most sites with traffic have their own writers....thats problem one.

    There is absolutely NOTHING you can offer that would convince the syndicator that your article is worth enough that you deserve to have your resource box and backlink on THEIR site.

    Unless ur douglas Adams or richard bach or maybe tim ferris (joking) you will not have the commercial "draw power" to get a 500 word article WITH a big dirty backlink and a smelly hard sell resource box into any reputable traffic bearing website...not a chance.

    harsh but totally honest
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    • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
      Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

      Most sites with traffic have their own writers....thats problem one.
      Why can't you become one of them ?


      Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

      There is absolutely NOTHING you can offer that would convince the syndicator that your article is worth enough that you deserve to have your resource box and backlink on THEIR site.
      Why do you say that?
      Really, why ?
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    • Profile picture of the author danr62
      Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

      ...you will not have the commercial "draw power" to get a 500 word article WITH a big dirty backlink and a smelly hard sell resource box into any reputable traffic bearing website...not a chance.

      harsh but totally honest
      That's why most article syndication experts on this forum recommend doing things very differently from this. They usually recommend writing an article of about 1000 words, chock full of useful and engaging content and a resource box that is not a hard sell.
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    • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
      Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

      I can tell you from fairly valid experience (enough for me to give up on it years ago-things may have changed) that article syndication is like pushing jello around.

      Most sites with traffic have their own writers....thats problem one.

      There is absolutely NOTHING you can offer that would convince the syndicator that your article is worth enough that you deserve to have your resource box and backlink on THEIR site.

      Unless ur douglas Adams or richard bach or maybe tim ferris (joking) you will not have the commercial "draw power" to get a 500 word article WITH a big dirty backlink and a smelly hard sell resource box into any reputable traffic bearing website...not a chance.

      harsh but totally honest
      The first person I contacted totally said yes. However, I will at times spend all day writing an article. I can write about 100 words a minute, but when it comes to writing these kinds of articles I take my time, research, research, research, read, re-read, re-write, and make sure that I don't send it out until I feel like it's a masterpiece. I take a look at the structure, flow, feel, content, information, facts, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author dragonblogger
    From a site that accepts guest posters and I have had over 300+ guest bloggers over the past 3 years, I don't allow duplicate content. If you can paraphrase/rewrite/respin so 100% copyscape scan passes, I accept.
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    I think Alexa's post tells you everything with the exception of one critical point - you need to be a talented writer to be successful at syndication, or you need to have access to one (money).
    The vast majority of us fall into the scenario that TheJustWarrior has painted in his/her bleak but reality based post.

    Before you concern yourself with the mechanics of syndication, be sure that you have the necessary writing skills and/or resources, or you'll just be pouring your time into another Internet black hole, at warp speed.
    Beam me up Scotty.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by rooze View Post

      The vast majority of us fall into the scenario that TheJustWarrior has painted in his/her bleak but reality based post.
      S/he's discussing it in terms of backlinks, apparently: that's not the same type of approach which all of us here, so successfully building our full-time businesses in this way, think of as "article marketing" at all: it leads to a business which is largely dependent on search engines for its primary traffic, and is perhaps ultimately only ever one algorithm change away from a disaster.

      As explained here (and in so many other threads), article marketing is a traffic generation method in its own right - not only "not primarily a system for getting search engine traffic" but in fact something that could still be done if Google de-indexed all one's sites tomorrow.

      Also, I hope s/he'll excuse the observation that the references above to "500-word articles" and "hard sell resource boxes" are not compatible with any form of article syndication I've ever encountered, and hardly seem to me like a plausible business model. Successful syndication and 500-word articles with hard-selling resource-boxes are mutually exclusive realities, and it's hardly a surprise, to me at least, that that experience proved entirely non-viable.

      Clearly, it's entirely true that to build a business in this way, one needs to be able either to write or to buy the necessary articles. As against that, of course, far smaller numbers of them are typically needed to attract large quantities of highly targeted traffic.
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      • Profile picture of the author rooze
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        S/he's discussing it in terms of backlinks, apparently: that's not the same type of approach which all of us here, so successfully building our full-time businesses in this way, think of as "article marketing" at all
        Hi Alexa,

        I don't think that was at the heart of TJW's post, but I don't know the person so I could be wrong. S/he did obviously mention backlinks, but I took it in the context of the backlink being the 'visitor delivery mechanism' and not some way of inflating the PR of the target site. So it does remain a very valid point (despite the rather cynical and amusing delivery).

        You can syndicate all you like but unless I'm mistaken, the link back to your site is the only real conduit for traffic, unless you have a very high name recognition factor. So TJW was basically saying - to get someone to post your article on their website and provide an escape route for their own visitors....well the article had darn well better be worth it. Which brought up my simple point, that most people do not have the ability to create something worthy of syndication, with the publishing downsides that come with it.

        I think to stamp home that simple truth would prevent a lot of people from embarking on another futile IM campaign.

        Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
    Another tip (and one that I think Alexa has brought up before) is to keep track of where your articles get syndicated after you publish them to EZA and the like (all you need to do is Google your title and see where it pops up). If you know that ABC website has syndicated an article or 2 of yours already, contact them directly the next time you write something and offer to send your latest one to them.

    That way, you're cutting out the "middle man" and saving them the trouble of logging onto EZA and finding your new articles (or simply keeping your fingers crossed that they'll remember to look for more articles from you!) And, as an added benefit, you're building a relationship with them - something you wouldn't get if you just waited for them to find your articles on their own.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    @Alexa Smith,from the first link you provided in your post:
    The article has a witty opening, heaps of controversy and entertainment all the way through, laughs in all the right places, and a real sting in the tail.
    What do you mean ? in the example in that post you mentioned the article's title as "Cauliflower Soup Regurgitated: How Not To Poison Your Kids".
    I assume you provide info on how to correctly make a soup out of cauliflower, but what do you say at the end, is it something like: "if you do not pay enough attention, your children can end up in hospital" ? Is that what you were referring ?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      I assume you provide info on how to correctly make a soup out of cauliflower
      It's only a fictional niche - not a real one. I don't disclose my niches, and sometimes use "cauliflower soup recipes" as an example of a niche for illustrative purposes in discussions. I did have an actual niche, and an actual article, in mind when I wrote that post, but it isn't quite "cauliflower soup recipes" and that wasn't quite the title of the article I'd written. Apologies for any confusion.

      (Sorry for sounding paranoid, but some experience of such discussions here has taught me that if I use anything too close to a real title/quotation from an article, people will put it into Google and try to find my sites and I prefer to make that difficult to do because one or two of my niches are really non-competitive and I'd rather keep them that way ).

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      what do you say at the end, is it something like: "if you do not pay enough attention, your children can end up in hospital" ?
      I'm not sure quite how "stingy" that would be, actually ... I'd perhaps prefer that for the first paragraph than the end? I'm not sure what a real sting in the tail would be for a soup recipe article, but that's my own fault for choosing a silly example ...

      What I really like to do is to try to finish the article on a note that leads naturally to the link to my landing page, which potential customers will want to click to find out what they're missing, but which publishers don't think is so obviously salesy that they're uncomfortable reproducing it on their sites. (And I'm not trying to rank any of my sites for the keyword "click here"! :p :rolleyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheJustWarrior
    What Im saying in my deep masculine voice, (should there be any doubts) is that article syndication is specialized and a very difficult process. It is hardly a mainstream access point for the masses.

    Im sure Alexa does great with it, my judgment based solely on her appealing and eloquent writing style (she puts everything into it even in a forum post) I have absolutely no doubts she makes it work for her

    Policing and monitoring articles is not that easy, you will get your articles spun and reworded etc C&D orders dont work most of the time because the host cant really verify who wrote the article first.

    And do hosts even have time mitigating such minutia for $12 bucks a month. Hosts dont care unless it is a legal letter from a lawyer and even then, their tos frees them of any responsibility.

    As for finding the big fish and whales

    You will only succeed in interesting newbs and others looking for an easy way to fill pages without having to think about it. The majority will have no traffic nor link juice (if thats what you are doing it for)

    And of course, now these newbies and lazy page manufacturers will be competing with you with your very own article. But you did all the work. You're lucky if less than 90% don't mess with your resource box and actual link which is the point of syndicating.

    We found it an infuriating avenue in 2009 and I am certain things have not changed in fact things are probably worse.
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    • Profile picture of the author rooze
      Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

      It is hardly a mainstream access point for the masses.
      That's the expression I was looking for to illustrate my point. Thanks.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
      Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

      Im sure Alexa does great with it, my judgment based solely on her appealing and eloquent writing style (she puts everything into it even in a forum post) I have absolutely no doubts she makes it work for her
      Just an observation, but I have noticed that the people who always write forum posts in the same way they write articles, reports, white papers, or whatever, are the ones who are the most serious about their business efforts.

      The way you write a forum post is often the only chance another person has of judging your writing ability. I personally write all my forum posts as if I were being paid to do so (I'm not, of course). I feel it's a good discipline well worth maintaining.

      Alexa's forum posts are invariably impeccable, but isn't that exactly what you would expect, given that her business activity is article marketing through syndication?

      John.
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        There is no idea so brilliant or original that a sufficiently-untalented writer can't screw it up.

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        • Profile picture of the author drmani
          As I read this discussion, I felt like commenting on 3 things:

          #1:

          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          I have some questions that I haven't found answers for.
          Might I suggest Paul Myers' excellent ebook, "CONTENT CASH - A New Approach
          To An Old System" as a definitive guide to learning all of this, and more?

          For the $27 or so that it'll cost you, I doubt you'll find a better one.

          #2:

          Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

          There is absolutely NOTHING you can offer that would convince the syndicator that your article is worth enough that you deserve to have your resource box and backlink on THEIR site.

          Unless ur douglas Adams or richard bach or maybe tim ferris (joking) you will not have the commercial "draw power" to get a 500 word article WITH a big dirty backlink and a smelly hard sell resource box into any reputable traffic bearing website...not a chance.

          harsh but totally honest
          I absolutely agree with this.

          Article syndication isn't a quick and easy 'slap together a piece of content,
          brand it with my killer sig file, and spray it across the Web so enough sticks'
          style of shot-gun marketing.

          It's laser focused sniper fire that's carefully targeted at AN audience -
          and crafted specially to appeal to it.

          It's a branding tool rather than a direct response vehicle, at least in
          the first few contacts (until you've established a relationship with a
          publisher).

          It's done primarily to reach and impress an audience than to gain a search
          engine edge - though that eventually follows.

          And yes, did I say I agree with the fact that it's HARD WORK.

          Just like every other form of EFFECTIVE marketing that stays relevant
          for years, not weeks or months.



          #3:

          Originally Posted by rooze View Post

          - you need to be a talented writer to be successful at syndication, or you need to have access to one (money).
          You need to be talented/skilled/determined (or as Chet Holmes calls it,
          "pig headed") about ANY marketing effort to make it work really well for
          you.

          That said, the myth of "high quality content" being the only kind eligible
          or capable of syndication is just that... a myth.

          Sure, your writing must get better over time. But hey, you're not aiming
          to write for Search Engine Watch the first time you pen an SEO article!
          You work your way up to any level you want - and as long as you focus on
          delivering VALUE, the actual quality of your content won't matter.

          I use the extreme example of Warren Buffet's coming year stock portfolio.
          If I could share it with financial and investing sites, d'you think they'd
          care about grammar or spelling or style?

          Quality matters. Value matters a whole lot more. Don't let your estimation
          of how good (or not) your writing style is hold you back from enjoying
          the benefits of article syndication.

          And finally, before we all join hands and sing Kumbaya, expecting
          that by starting out trying to get articles syndicated, we'll be enjoying
          a flood of traffic to our sites that rivals someone like Paul's (myob)
          who has been practicing syndication for DECADES, let's all read this
          post (holding back from taking too extreme a viewpoint, yet understanding
          that it is a fair estimate of the difficulty ahead)... and brace ourselves
          for the rough ride ahead

          Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

          What Im saying in my deep masculine voice, (should there be any doubts) is that article syndication is specialized and a very difficult process. It is hardly a mainstream access point for the masses.

          Policing and monitoring articles is not that easy, you will get your articles spun and reworded etc C&D orders dont work most of the time because the host cant really verify who wrote the article first.

          And do hosts even have time mitigating such minutia for $12 bucks a month. Hosts dont care unless it is a legal letter from a lawyer and even then, their tos frees them of any responsibility.

          As for finding the big fish and whales

          You will only succeed in interesting newbs and others looking for an easy way to fill pages without having to think about it. The majority will have no traffic nor link juice (if thats what you are doing it for)

          And of course, now these newbies and lazy page manufacturers will be competing with you with your very own article. But you did all the work. You're lucky if less than 90% don't mess with your resource box and actual link which is the point of syndicating.

          We found it an infuriating avenue in 2009 and I am certain things have not changed in fact things are probably worse.
          Amen

          Now that you know the landscape, get out there and start syndicating your
          content anyway. Just don't expect it to lay golden eggs starting tomorrow

          All success
          Dr.Mani
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          • Profile picture of the author TheJustWarrior
            Originally Posted by drmani View Post



            But hey, you're not aiming to write for Search Engine Watch the first time you pen an SEO article!
            Im glad somebody introduced an example of the fabled big fish syndicator.

            By the way, apologies to the op, I only meant to leave a caveat post here one time to balance the blind belief in syndication that is prevalent on warrrior forum. Responding further on this thread seems like going too far. I would love to be convinced the opposite but am far from it.

            Im sure there will be other opportunities to discuss the inadequacies of this strategy in a more appropriately titled thread where the true pitfalls and technical impossibilities of syndication can be examined in more detail. Or vice versa
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    • Profile picture of the author wayne60618
      Originally Posted by TheJustWarrior View Post

      What Im saying in my deep masculine voice, (should there be any doubts) is that article syndication is specialized and a very difficult process. It is hardly a mainstream access point for the masses.

      Im sure Alexa does great with it, my judgment based solely on her appealing and eloquent writing style (she puts everything into it even in a forum post) I have absolutely no doubts she makes it work for her

      Policing and monitoring articles is not that easy, you will get your articles spun and reworded etc C&D orders dont work most of the time because the host cant really verify who wrote the article first.

      And do hosts even have time mitigating such minutia for $12 bucks a month. Hosts dont care unless it is a legal letter from a lawyer and even then, their tos frees them of any responsibility.

      As for finding the big fish and whales

      You will only succeed in interesting newbs and others looking for an easy way to fill pages without having to think about it. The majority will have no traffic nor link juice (if thats what you are doing it for)

      And of course, now these newbies and lazy page manufacturers will be competing with you with your very own article. But you did all the work. You're lucky if less than 90% don't mess with your resource box and actual link which is the point of syndicating.

      We found it an infuriating avenue in 2009 and I am certain things have not changed in fact things are probably worse.
      This is an interesting take on the challenges of article syndication. This will be true of any form of content marketing...People will take it spin it and try to sell it as their own to get a backlink from somewhere.

      But, I don't care. I am pretty sure that spun articles are not going to be published on quality blogs or sites and compete with me for publication. Nor do I think they will steal any of the traffic that my articles will produce.

      Nor do I think that someone stealing my articles will put together the relationships that I have in my niche.

      In short, I'd rather produce more content than chase some IM hack. They build backlinks while I build a business...

      Also, I would agree that article syndication is very difficult - for people who cannot or will not produce a decent article. Call me naive though, I think most people can, if they put their mind to it and work to improve their writing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Thanks for the quick reply!

    Why do you want them to opt in? So you can send them emails periodically ?
    If yes, do you send them emails to get them back to your website and push them to the review page in one way or the other or do you try to sell them something? (the product you do affiliation for)?

    I have not researched, but a friend of mine said that the aweber (or other websites that you can use to send emails) are expensive/per month.
    Maybe it's because he has 2.000 Unique Visitors a day and only makes $200 a month
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Why do you want them to opt in?
      To build my lists.

      I'm selling ClickBank products (mostly). You can't do that without building lists.

      My lists are my businses's primary asset.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      So you can send them emails periodically ?
      I send them emails on days 1, 3, 6, 10, 15 and thereafter every 5 days (sometimes every 6 days).

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      do you send them emails to get them back to your website and push them to the review page in one way or the other or do you try to sell them something? (the product you do affiliation for)?
      I send them emails to build relationships with them (normally one-way relationships, admittedly, but that doesn't matter). So that I can provide valuable and interesting information to them. So that they'll come to respect my knowledge (and my site) of that niche. So that they'll trust me. So that when I recommend a ClickBank (or other) product to them, they'll at the very least be interested to know what it is that's so good that "their expert" is recommending it.

      And, yes, to get them back to my website.

      And to do product promotions (usually in one email in three, but not occupying the whole email).

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      I have not researched, but a friend of mine said that the aweber (or other websites that you can use to send emails) are expensive/per month.
      It doesn't matter, because you can't make many affiliate sales without them.

      Actually they're terribly cheap, for what they do. The proportion of your takings that they charge isn't even worth talking about.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Maybe it's because he has 2.000 Unique Visitors a day and only makes $200 a month
      Aweber is charging according to what he's sending to his subscribers, not the number of visitors his site gets. (Are you sure those figures are right? They certainly seem extraordinarily mismatched, at first glance? But who knows ... maybe his traffic quality leaves rather a lot to be desired, or something?)

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Also, do you use some pop-ups when they land on your page to get them to opt in?
      Definitely not.

      I have an incentivized opt-in, offering them something in exchange for their email address, but no pop-ups. For all the reasons explained here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Also, do you use some pop-ups when they land on your page to get them to opt in? (with an incentive like "subscribe and get for free a PDF") ?
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    I'm selling ClickBank products (mostly). You can't do that without building lists.
    Why not go for physical products? From what I know, the return rate are very low and a guy here on warrior forum just posted that he had $600 worth of refunds this month.

    I send them emails on days 1, 3, 6, 10, 15 and thereafter every 5 days (sometimes every 6 days).
    Is the first email a welcome email paired with the link from where the person can download the incentive?(I think it avoids getting emails in your list that people entered just to get the copy of the ebook)

    Also the other emails are sent automatically with predefined content? If yes, how do you do that? through aweber?


    Can you also be kindly enough to tell me what do you send them? Mini articles perhaps?(400 words)
    What other type of information that can make you seen as an "authority" can you send? An excerpt from a recent study on that niche?


    Also, in the other post you said your landing webpage (I don't know if you refer to the homepage or a specific page on your website) is designed to get them to opt in. Is there some ebook on how to design such pages?

    (Are you sure those figures are right? They certainly seem extraordinarily mismatched, at first glance? But who knows ... maybe his traffic quality leaves rather a lot to be desired, or something?)

    That's what he told me. He made an ebook on that niche and he sells it through clickbank but he gets lots of refunds (from what I remember him telling me).
    Maybe it's because his main target is teens and young people under 25 who have no problem abusing clickbank's refund policy. I assume a target audience of people above 30 and educated won't to that.

    Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions and turning the thread into a private conversation but I've read you don't like being PM-ed and these type of specific questions aren't answered anywhere else (from what I've seen).
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Why not go for physical products? From what I know, the return rate are very low
      My refund rate of ClickBank products is very low, thanks. I sell about 500 per month and have very few refunds. What determines the refund-rate is primarily how the products are pre-sold.

      This subject's widely discussed in other threads, but a lot of people make the mistake of imagining that ClickBank's 60-day guarantee means that a lot of people are going to refund. That doesn't have to be so. What it really means to me is that the products are going to be easy to sell.

      It's true there are 2 or 3 specific niches which have slightly higher-than-average refund rates, but those are niches I keep away from for many other reasons, anyway.

      I do sell some physical products that fit my niches, too, kind of as "extras", but collectively they're harder going for me than ClickBank products.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Is the first email a welcome email paired with the link from where the person can download the incentive?
      Yes.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      I think it avoids getting emails in your list that people entered just to get the copy of the ebook
      I'm very happy to have those on my list, if they've been attracted to my site by one of my articles, because long experience has taught me that I can sell to them. If they liked an article enough to come to my site and opt in, then they'll like my emails enough to trust my recommendations and buy things. That's the theory, anyway.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Also the other emails are sent automatically with predefined content?
      Yes - all automated.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      If yes, how do you do that? through aweber?
      Yes. (There are some other good autoresponder companies, too, but stay away from "free autoresponders" - I don't mean companies like GetResponse who don't charge for your first 100 subscribers: they're also a good company but not really a "free autoresponder").

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Can you also be kindly enough to tell me what do you send them? Mini articles perhaps?(400 words)
      I send them what I've told them I'll send them (a big point, this - and one overlooked by many people, perhaps partly because it sounds so obvious), which is further information about the niche, discussions of the subjects I've mentioned on my landing page, more about what the "free report" started covering (the purpose of the free report is to ensure that they open and read my emails), further valuable content in the niche, many links back to my site (I want to get them used to clicking my links expecting and finding something of value) and - of course - product promotions.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      What other type of information that can make you seen as an "authority" can you send? An excerpt from a recent study on that niche?
      That might qualify, yes ... it varies a lot from niche to niche.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Also, in the other post you said your landing webpage (I don't know if you refer to the homepage or a specific page on your website) is designed to get them to opt in. Is there some ebook on how to design such pages?
      Sorry, don't know this. My guess is that there'll be many. I know that some books/courses recommend squeeze-pages specifically, but I split-tested them for 4 of my niches, for 6 months each, and I now don't use them at all, myself.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      He made an ebook on that niche and he sells it through clickbank but he gets lots of refunds (from what I remember him telling me).
      Ah, I see. I suspect, then, that there's a mismatch between the customers' expectations and what the product actually delivers. (There can be many different reasons for that arising, though - and it isn't necessarily entirely the fault of the product). This is one of the many reasons I prefer being an affiliate: your fortunes are not tied to the continued success of any specific, individual product at all, and you can change the products you promote pretty easily without needing to create a new one.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Maybe it's because his main target is teens and young people under 25 who have no problem abusing clickbank's refund policy. I assume a target audience of people above 30 and educated won't to that.
      Yes, maybe so. I don't promote specifically to teens, myself, for quite a variety of reasons. I hadn't really thought much about that reason, but it sounds right to me.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      Sorry for bombarding you with so many questions and turning the thread into a private conversation but I've read you don't like being PM-ed
      Really? I think you may have read that I don't like PM's from people I don't know asking me to review their WSO's in exchange for a free copy (which is perfectly true, but I'm hardly alone there! :p ). I do sometimes reply more quickly to threads than I do to my PM's, though.

      Originally Posted by canyon View Post

      these type of specific questions aren't answered anywhere else (from what I've seen).
      No prob ... I know what you mean. Stuff can be, sometimes, but it can also be pretty hard to find.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Sorry, don't know this. My guess is that there'll be many. I know that some books/courses recommend squeeze-pages specifically, but I split-tested them for 4 of my niches, for 6 months each, and I now don't use them at all, myself.
        So do you make them land on your homepage which is designed for opting in or on another page?
        How do you design it for opting in? I mean, visually or through text (like "welcome to my website, you will find more info about this niche and you can also subscribe for weekly newsletters)?
        Or both?


        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Really? I think you may have read that I don't like PM's from people I don't know asking me to review their WSO's in exchange for a free copy (which is perfectly true, but I'm hardly alone there! :p ). I do sometimes reply more quickly to threads than I do to my PM's, though.
        Yes I think that's it but I just read the thread rapidly and didn't get into details.
        I think this way is better though, you don't get your inbox filled with PMs and the community has a chance to find out more. A win-win situation
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          So do you make them land on your homepage which is designed for opting in or on another page?
          You just use that page's url as the link they click on.

          With most of my articles, I want the traffic on my main landing page, which is the site's home page, so I just use that url. Wherever the article is syndicated, that link should go with it.

          Originally Posted by canyon View Post

          How do you design it for opting in? I mean, visually or through text (like "welcome to my website, you will find more info about this niche and you can also subscribe for weekly newsletters)?
          Or both?
          Yes, both.

          I have the opt-in box at the right side of the top of the landing page, and the text explaining/promoting it on its left (i.e. in the middle of the page). That box, on the right (but without all the explanation) actually appears on every page, because it's in a sidebar. Apart from that opt-in box, my sites don't look as if they're made with blogging software, but actually they are (it's just not Wordpress - but you can do the same thing with Wordpress, anyway).

          In my autoresponder emails, I use various other pages as "landing pages" too, though, and send out url's to those pages instead (most people on my list have already seen the home page).
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          • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            I have the opt-in box at the right side of the top of the landing page
            I've read that it should be on the left because people start reading from the left to the right so the most attention span is on that part.

            Anyways, thanks for the detailed responses!
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            • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
              Banned
              Originally Posted by canyon View Post

              I've read that it should be on the left because people start reading from the left to the right so the most attention span is on that part.
              Yes, I've read that, too.

              I'm a skepchick, though: I like to test stuff for myself before I believe it - you learn some really surprising and useful things, that way.

              Originally Posted by canyon View Post

              Do you display a banner with the product that you promote on your landing page? Under the subscription maybe ?
              I make my own ... I'm not sure you'd call them "banners", really, though: they're part of my site's navigation system. They have to be the right size and shape and colour for me (which the vendors' never are).

              Originally Posted by canyon View Post

              It could also include a banner that sends the user to the review page on your website of that product.
              Yes - I do this.
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              • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                Originally Posted by canyon View Post

                I've read that it should be on the left because people start reading from the left to the right so the most attention span is on that part.

                Anyways, thanks for the detailed responses!
                Two thoughts on this, based on experience...

                1. People may start reading from left to right, but all that means is that your left-side box is the first thing they stop looking at as they scan.

                2. This is amplified by the way people have come to expect websites to work - navigation on the left/top, content in the middle, ads and supplemental information on the right.

                I like a prominent opt-in box in the right sidebar, with just a few bullets explaining the high points of the offer. I also like to put another opt-in form at the end of my landing page text, as it seems to make filling in the form and clicking the button a natural extension of reaching the end of the text.
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                • I have a question for Alexa and other successful article marketers.


                  Through mainly active article syndication, I have managed to get various articles on context relevant websites.

                  However, the traffic I am recieving from those websites is pathetic. Within about 4 weeks I have had about 10 hits from all of those websites put together.

                  Is it about being patient and waiting for one particular site to give you a decent flow of traffic? Or is it just a numbers game?
                  Signature

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                  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by GoodnightSweetRatRace View Post

                    Is it about being patient and waiting for one particular site to give you a decent flow of traffic? Or is it just a numbers game?
                    It can be both of those ... there's always some luck in it, and it's often unpredictable, but of course the more you have "out there" the more is your chance of a sudden flood of targeted traffic. It really does go in fits and starts. You can seem to get almost nothing from a few "consecutive" places (if you keep track of when they syndicate - I admit I don't do this accurately because their timing isn't really relevant to me), and then suddenly hit the jackpot with the next one.

                    Overall, of course, you get the dramatic surges of targeted traffic more from the ezines than from the websites (because their readers are more likely all to see it on or around the same day), and a sudden, huge traffic spike is sometimes the way you discover that something's actually been circulated in an ezine (because they don't always remember to tell you and send you a copy!) ...

                    Good luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Forgot to ask: Do you display a banner with the product that you promote on your landing page? Under the subscription maybe ?

    I do not refer only to a banner that links directly with the official selling webpage. It could also include a banner that sends the user to the review page on your website of that product.
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