It's Official PayPal Is Dying!

75 replies
The other day there was a news post showing that among online sellers PayPal is down about 22% with more and more people opting for regular merchant accounts, even other 3rd party processors seen a minor increase in usage just not PayPal.

You can read the article here:

Study Sees PayPal Adoption Down Among Multi-Channel Merchants

Now, you may also think well, PayPal still has most of the market when it comes to 3rd party processing and while this is correct, there is a big player coming to the game in 2012 with a bunch of developers backing them.

You may have heard of them before they are called VISA. They are launching www.V.me and it's pretty slick.
#dying #official #paypal
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    I think "Dying" might be "overkill", but it is good that Visa is finally stepping up to the plate.
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    • Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I think "Dying" might be "overkill", but it is good that Visa is finally stepping up to the plate.
      "Dying might be overkill"...isn't that a double pun-i-tive? :rolleyes: jk

      I've seen Paypal go from a one-room schoolhouse the school of hard-knocks - (we get the hard-knocks, they get our money...)

      They used to be very convenient - now it's whatever is convenient for them.

      It's good to see some more choices...maybe they'll realize they are not the only game in town. Isn't that what free enterprise is all about?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I think paypal is growing up - it is certainly not dying. It is now offered as a payment option on many large manufacturer and commerce sites.
        I've spent over $1700 in the past four days on some large physical items - and paid for every one of them through paypal.

        The purchases were made through large commerce sites that didn't offer the paypal option two years ago. Paypal is becoming mainstream for buyers but that may end up making it harder for those selling digital downloads.


        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author robnoble
          Hopefully having a competitor in the wings will get Paypal playing fairer and not being so heavy handed with account closures.
          The need to contact them before expecting any kind of jump in transactions or risk facing suspension without effective redress is incomprehensible to me!

          Thanks for the link Thomas
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Daniels
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I think "Dying" might be "overkill", but it is good that Visa is finally stepping up to the plate.
      Down 22% is dying (didn't say dead) when standing next to VISA.. again VISA.. its not overkill, Paypay is dying in the sense of having a monoply on most of the online transactions/processing..

      My educated guess is that many others will follow suite now that VISA has made this decision, it won't stop with VISA.. no more monopoly, looking at Paypal's history within the last 5 years amongst marketers (eBay especially) it seems many bridges have been burnt, if PP was looking ahead they would have realized it was in there best interest to get marketers on there side.

      Not saying they should put up with scamming but the way they went about freezing accounts with little mercy and holding funds without looking deeper into the situation has left a bad taste in some marketers mouth's.

      But that is an attitude that many corps take when they put profits first and members second...
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    Damn...does that mean I'm gonna have to change all my payment button codes?
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by rooze View Post

      Damn...does that mean I'm gonna have to change all my payment button codes?

      Nah... It means you will have more choices for payment processors soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Michal
    Yeah obviously paypal is still accepted millions of places so they'll be around a long time, they will just start losing market share to another processor.

    which means the market will be more competitive...which usually means it will give the end users "us" a better experience because they want our business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Meharis
      Originally Posted by Thomas Michal View Post

      Yeah obviously paypal is still accepted millions of places so they'll be around a long time, they will just start losing market share to another processor.

      which means the market will be more competitive...which usually means it will give the end users "us" a better experience because they want our business.


      Thomas Michal,

      Uh yeah. And 3 years from now we will complaining because "V.me" is doing the same thing
      PP was doing.... By then, "S.me" will be looking great and so on.
      Banks/Credit Cards companies are crooks with license to steal.
      If there was a way to analyze their DNA, you'll find 90% chameleon...
      They change the way to get your money. Nothing else.

      Meharis
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    Oh no! Someone better notify Paypal right away.
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    • Profile picture of the author pwtmike
      Originally Posted by Marhelper View Post

      Oh no! Someone better notify Paypal right away.
      I just called in using my WEB PIN and let them know.

      Gotta love that web pin. So ahead of the times, paypal...
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  • Profile picture of the author mattpaul2000
    Other merchants have been far to slow to try and catch up with paypal online but we have heard it all before when it come to paypal and catching them up. See Google Checkout
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  • Profile picture of the author Dimitris Skiadas
    Paypal may had a small decrease but i think it will take a long long time before it dies.I believe that this decrease has come due to the displeasure of the people using it(mainly the merchants) who had a lot of problems with frozen accounts,account limits etc

    My hope is that there will be at the near future an online payment processor equal to Paypal.

    Dimitris
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    Like some of the other here, I suspect paypal is a long way from going under, however, if they do not see the handwriting on the wall they could face some challenging times in the near future because everything is going digital, considering that books are moving into the digital arena, you have what is likely to be one of the biggest sellers of the Christmas season, amazon kindle fire, is going to sell like there is no tomorrow and digital products will follow that same trend.

    If paypal does not make that adjustment to the coming digital market, they might face a real challenge for the future.
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  • Profile picture of the author DavidMoore557
    Wow!

    If VISA is making a play for this market, it seems that the other cards won't be too far behind. Paypal may wind up being irrelevant.

    I'm interested to see what will happen.

    -DaveMike
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    Well a guy can dream, can't he?

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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
      I wouldn't start planning for a funeral based on the survey results of under 2,000 merchants.

      The last quarter figures showed that PayPal's revenue is actually up 31% year on year, with further growth, especially offline, anticipated.

      It's only natural that competitors are going to enter the online arena and eat into PayPal's market share. But with the overall market continuing to expand, established players should still stand to benefit.

      With $1.1 billion revenue off a payment volume of $29.3 billion just in the last quarter, I should think a lot of businesses are wishing they could be dying like PayPal.

      Driven By PayPal, eBay Q3 Revenue Up 32 Percent To $3 Billion; Net Income Up 18 Percent To $628M | TechCrunch


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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    Don't forget that PayPal and eBay are connected at the hip. (same ownership).

    There will always be an eBay hence there will always be a PayPal....probably, maybe.
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    • Profile picture of the author magiclouie
      Originally Posted by rooze View Post

      Don't forget that PayPal and eBay are connected at the hip. (same ownership).

      There will always be an eBay hence there will always be a PayPal....probably, maybe.
      I agree with you, mate. I have been using paypal for quite some time now and I haven't encountered any problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
        Originally Posted by magiclouie View Post

        I agree with you, mate. I have been using paypal for quite some time now and I haven't encountered any problem.
        The problem is that they won't give you any warning. I had about 3 weeks back in August when they were freezing my account every day or every other day for the dumbest things. Even had my account frozen for setting up a payment plan with my cell phone company.

        What was really embarrassing is that I found out the hard way the first time while I was out to dinner on a second date. Imagine my horror and embarrassment when the waiter returned and announced "Sir, I'm sorry, but your card was declined."

        The bottom line is that they can do what they want, when they want, to who they want, and that type of power kind of scares me. That's why I ALWAYS have backups ready in case they decide to pull my account permanently, for whatever reason they decide is alright.

        I know two people who had several thousand in their account and it was frozen and their account ermanently suspended. One waited 14 months to get his money and the other has been waiting 16 months and still has not gotten his money.

        If that's not reason to be careful with Paypal, then I don't know what is. I use my business to feed my family, and it kind of galls me that someone on the other end of a computer that doesn't know me at all can have control over that, and with the press of a key can freeze my money and potentially cause my family to go hungry.

        Maybe that's an extreme scenario, but a lot of folks live hand-to-mouth these days, and it should be no light decision to potentially take away someone's income.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Daniels
        Originally Posted by magiclouie View Post

        I agree with you, mate. I have been using paypal for quite some time now and I haven't encountered any problem.
        We all said this at one time...whenever they push the red button then what? so prepare and have backups and don't be so confident in your current standing with paypal or any processor for that matter. Any time someone else is in control of your livelihood (if your making money to live off of) have backups.
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    • Profile picture of the author dudelive
      I say the more the better.

      I hate being tied to PayPal with the fear of waking up to a empty account someday.

      Plus I would like to give my customers a choice. It might help with sales.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      The old saying "A known devil is better than an unkown angel" may come into play in this situation.

      Why people would be led to believe that a credit card company that will routinely increase a person's credit card rate from 10% to 30% 'just because' will suddenly change it's preditory behavior and suddenly become 'the good guy' is beyond me.

      They are getting into the business to extract money from the marketplace. There is no ulterior motive outside of profits here. And if that means playing an even bigger ogre than PayPal, don't be surprised.

      ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author Brendan Vraibel
    Hopefully Visa's program can be competitive so that Paypal will adjust and will actually care when they can't take care of their customers basic needs. I am for sure excited to see where this goes.
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  • Profile picture of the author bigbucks9
    I would like to see another competitor in the market. I have had some issues with paypal in the past and look forward to another option.
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by Thomas Michal View Post

    You may have heard of them before they are called VISA. They are launching www.V.me and it's pretty slick.

    I have already signed up for a V.me developer account. It looks like it might be an enjoyable programming environment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Melissa82
    I think Paypal could easily gain back any market share they have lost if they weren't so closed minded when it comes to the allowance of it's usage towards porn and gambling.

    That has to change once the second generation of ownership is in place but they are currently missing out on at least tens of millions in profit and billions in transactions.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Melissa82 View Post

      I think Paypal could easily gain back any market share they have lost if they weren't so closed minded when it comes to the allowance of it's usage towards porn and gambling.

      That has to change once the second generation of ownership is in place but they are currently missing out on at least tens of millions in profit and billions in transactions.

      Both of those industries are shaky, primarily because people will spend money then chargeback, just because...

      My buddy used to do porn, and he said that his chargeback rate was plus 50% every month.

      Given this track record, I can imagine that PayPal is playing smart by avoiding those black holes.

      And on the gambling side, enabling gamblers is very dicey with U.S. Law.
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      • Profile picture of the author Melissa82
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Both of those industries are shaky, primarily because people will spend money then chargeback, just because...

        My buddy used to do porn, and he said that his chargeback rate was plus 50% every month.

        Given this track record, I can imagine that PayPal is playing smart by avoiding those black holes.

        And on the gambling side, enabling gamblers is very dicey with U.S. Law.
        Nothing a few asterisks couldn't solve
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  • Profile picture of the author focused
    I'm looking forward to v.me.
    I like the idea of a valid and powerful alternative to
    the PayPal dynasty.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Barboza
    I'm wondering who sponsored that article...
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  • Profile picture of the author Osman_M
    Far from dying. It will take a lot to take down Paypal but then again I guess if there is a company that can do that it would be Visa.
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  • Profile picture of the author DudeAndy
    Paypal is just like Google. They will need a very revolutionary system and service to put this giant out of business. Paypal is here to stay, at least for the following years.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dale21
    I really don't think PayPal will be 'dying' anytime soon. It will be healthy to add more competition, maybe even cause the fees for merchant accounts to become a little more reasonable.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Yes Dude,

    Paypal aint going anywhere, they know they have the monopoly, and not going anywhere soon.

    Sure there will be challenges, but I say bring it on..... It will make paypal step up to the plate a bit more, they have been hard on some markters and there are some horror stories in here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Elluminati
    Hmmm...I'm like everyone else. PayPal is here to stay...
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    I remember when the discounters took on Sears and Wards and everyone laughed and said they didn't stand a chance against the two largest retailers in the world.

    Thomas
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    When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
      Originally Posted by Thomas Wilkinson View Post

      I remember when the discounters took on Sears and Wards and everyone laughed and said they didn't stand a chance against the two largest retailers in the world.

      Thomas
      I think a lot of the younger crowd, has never even seen a wards, LOL, but yes, back in the early 1980s there was this small company called Tri-Star which everyone said would not make a dime...

      In fact most of the big name players, jumped ship and laughed when Tri-Star continued to distribute films.

      Funny thing is now no one is laughing at Tristar now...
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    It would seem obvious to me that the v.me site would only accept paypal and nothing else, which could obviously be a drawback to sellers as there are plenty of people who have Mastercard, etc.

    Unless I'm wrong?
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    • Profile picture of the author Melissa82
      Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

      It would seem obvious to me that the v.me site would only accept paypal and nothing else, which could obviously be a drawback to sellers as there are plenty of people who have Mastercard, etc.

      Unless I'm wrong?
      v.me will accept Mastercard

      From v.me:

      V.me is launching in early 2012. Sign up now for beta access to our Developer Center APIs, sandbox, and documentation.
      Whether you're developing the next cool app or an eCommerce store, V.me allows you to accept payments securely with everyone's favorite payment methods, including Visa, MasterCard, and American Express
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I might go so far as to say I love PayPal but I know that woud get me tarred and feathered in these parts. I've been with them since 1999 and have never, ever had a problem. I've had my share of disputes and every time there was a legit argument on each side.

    And while I'm at it, lemme tell you about the wild and woolly days before eBay owned PayPay... Nah, you wouldn't want to hear it. If you think they're outlaws now, you should have been around then.

    PayPal ain't going nowhere no time soon. There might be giants chipping away at their foundation but they will certainly reenvent themselves to meet the challenges.

    Am I a fan of this rogue, pirate company? Yeah, I guess I am. But only because they're a necessary evil. Get yer ass out there and see what you have to do to get a merchant account and then come back here with a slit open vein dripping with with no appreciable results. Maybe then you'll appreciate the pirate we know as PayPal.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Can users purchase from funds that sit idle in their account similar to PayPal?
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    I learned a long time ago not to put all my eggs in the Paypal basket, so to speak. I have just heard so many horror stories about entire businesses being ruined and thousands lost or held that I set myself up a backup plan a long time ago.

    My Paypal backup is simple. It's E-Junkie + Google Checkout (soon to be "Google Wallet").

    After trying a broadcast to my list using just the Google Checkout option, I found that I made almost as many sales as I normally would have using Paypal.

    I'll tell ya, it's comforting to know that I can easily switch to a backup plan should I lose my Paypal account suddenly.

    Don't get me wrng, I've had no problems with Paypal and they are still my first choice of payment processor, buyt in Internet Marketing it's SO important to have backup plans for everyhting (including hosting and autorespondr).
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    • Profile picture of the author ry6782010
      Paypal sucks rooster. But, the only reason I use it is because of Ebay, Flippa, etc. I used to have bad experiences with them because at one point as some know, you wern't allowed to close your account if you still have funds in it. Now, when you want to close your account, it's no issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author superzjn
    Good news. Paypal is not so kind to us.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Q
    Banned
    This processor is a threat to Paypal? Hmmm....

    Guys like AlertPay, LibertyReserve and WebMoney can't even compete with Paypal's standards, but this one's pretty new to me really.

    We'll see if this one's gonna bring Paypal's market down.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    People mindlessly bitch about everything. I'm not specifically talking about this post exclusively. Take the WSO forum for example. There are people who put full time effort into posting about how many flaky offers they see there and how much money they've lost to 'preditors' on that forum. And how much money the exploiters are pulling in. Man, does it ever get tiresome reading that sh!t!

    Isn't the PayPal complaint the same thing? I mean, who the hell is forcing anyone to use PayPal or WF or Amazon or Clickbank or whatever.

    But still, PayPal serves a purpose. If it's not for you, just bug out. Simply don't use 'em. According to the many ditractors, there are plenty of alternatives. Oh, wait. They're not nearly as convienent as PayPal. Okay... But wait. The others require me to sign up and give them a pint of my blood.

    See, there's always somethig in the way. PayPal sucks, right? Yeah. So does Congress and the Senate and the office of the president, past, present and for sure, the future. And then there are the corporate vampires and the media and Lady GaGa, and Justin Beeeever... But these are the things we learn to live with.

    And if you really think PayPal should die, then create the poison that drives them away. In other words, come up with a system that does what they do, but do it better and with a smile. I'll certainly sign up and do business there.

    There's always an answer, but not necessarily one people want because it gets in the way of their bitching.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
      Very interesting. With Visa's existing infrastructure, this could get huge quick. I'd love to see a serious competitor to Paypal. When merchants start leaving them in droves, maybe they'll think twice about freezing the account of every other successful merchant for 6 months at a time.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Excuse me, but reality check here.

    "The study compared multi-channel merchants who had active listings on the EveryPlaceISell.com (EPIS) Merchant Directory"

    Anyone here listed there? I'm not. I've never heard of it.

    I did a quick look over the site. It looks like they have about 2,100 sites listed... roughly 1,250 of which are "multi-channel" merchants.

    OMG, about 275 people on that website stopped using PayPal last year.

    Seriously?
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  • Profile picture of the author Colin Palfrey
    As Caliban pointed out, PayPal are doing quite fine, regardless of what a ridicolously small test group may say.

    I've never had a problem with PayPal and I've moved a lot of money through them. They phoned me up in the past to say they had a problem. They were right to do so and I fixed the problem.

    I've never had a complaint or problem from them that wasn't 100% justified.

    It's possible that PayPal are the monsters people say, however... I would point to this forum as a comparison. There are people out there who think we are totally corrupt for not letting them run their scams here. Seriously, there are a lot of them and they moan all over the internet. Now we know those people are the ones in the wrong, we are here on the inside of this problem, grateful they are banned. I can't help thinking the people 'foot-stamping' about PayPal may be just the same type of people, we just can't see their business practices well enough to identify what they are doing wrong.

    I welcome any serious competition for PayPal, though. Competition always makes people offer better deals.
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  • Profile picture of the author renukoot
    I think we should wait and watch.

    One thing is sure that Paypal is not going.
    Second Let the v.me to come & see what it offer. May be like Google Checkout only USA & Canada can create account. As in Developer Signup in v.me only USA & Canada sign up is allowed.
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    • Profile picture of the author affhelper
      If Visa wants to compete they need to build some kind of platform. Paypal has eBay as their platform which basically guarantees them a big market share.

      It's all about platforms nowadays.
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      • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
        Originally Posted by affhelper View Post

        If Visa wants to compete they need to build some kind of platform. Paypal has eBay as their platform which basically guarantees them a big market share.

        It's all about platforms nowadays.
        Visa owns the lions share of the credit/debit card market. I don't know how many customers that equates to, but I think it's safe to say that it's in the hundreds of millions (if not over a billion). What if they started including direct mail ads for V.me with each of their customers monthly statements, every month, for the next few years?

        If that's not a "platform", I don't know what is!
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        • Profile picture of the author sparklers
          I personally use PayPal on my ecommerce site, however I am now an ISO for Sage Pay and will be switching to their platform as soon as my shopping cart is certified. This is going to save me 1000's per year by having an actual merchant account like any other retail shop.
          PayPal is nice if your not doing a whole lot of transactions, similar to GoPayment and Square. Moving away from PayPal is a good problem to have IMO.
          PM me if your interested in merchant accnt options.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Daniels
            Originally Posted by sparklers View Post

            I personally use PayPal on my ecommerce site, however I am now an ISO for Sage Pay and will be switching to their platform as soon as my shopping cart is certified. This is going to save me 1000's per year by having an actual merchant account like any other retail shop.
            PayPal is nice if your not doing a whole lot of transactions, similar to GoPayment and Square. Moving away from PayPal is a good problem to have IMO.
            PM me if your interested in merchant accnt options.
            Well said, pp is for low money making, MOST of the people that had issue with paypal where making some real money (thousands daily). For people that have no issue it could be, keyword "could be" that your not earning much hence your not a threat if you pull your money out.
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      • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
        I have never used paypal for anything other than purchases or small services. I've been interested in using it to make business transactions through, but have stayed away from it, because I keep reading forum threads where people got shut down over night with virtually no explanation.

        It sounds to me like even if you took precautions to do business right through them there is always a risk. I would hate to see everything just collapse like that.
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      • Profile picture of the author AdWorkMedia
        This is cool to hear! More competition might mean lower fee's and more features!
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  • Profile picture of the author Oranges
    Sounds good! At least we'll have an option to avoid paypal and stop being treated so cheaply by the way Paypal work and because of their monopoly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
    If you guys think you've heard horror stories about Pay Pal
    wait until VISA gets in the game full bore.

    They will not only freeze your account, they'll send someone
    to your home to kick your ass... lol
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    If you knew what I know you'd be doing what I do...
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  • Profile picture of the author lamatic
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author gfMedia
      I've been with PayPal and eBay since 1999.

      I had my account frozen once for a few days until I corrected an issue.

      That correction resulted in a major decrease in my income which I knew was coming so I was trying to fix it, but I didn't get it fixed in time.

      It really would be great to have several other "GOOD" options available and not just rely on PayPal.

      Having Visa as a viable option is definitely welcome.

      BTW, I also signed up as a V.me developer, and the API looks really good.
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  • Profile picture of the author sscot
    Big-headed PayPal, Do you want any more?
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  • Personally, I'd love to see PayPal lose its customer base and fizzle out. Awful company. But I highly doubt that's going to happen.

    We can only hope that this new competition will prompt PayPal to actually give a $@%t about customer service.
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  • Profile picture of the author jasonthewebmaster
    Banned
    YES!! DIE PAYPAL DIE!!! Just send me the money you owe me first damnit! LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Personally, I have no issues with Paypal. I've run thousands of transactions with them with very little issues over the years with a wide variety products and in different markets. However, it's nice to see another player jump into the fray. I'm still playing with Google Checkout (meh so far), but it's really limited on what I can do with it.

    Roughly 90% of all our transactions are run through our merchant account, so Visa, bring it on.

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author zamzung
    I will be interesting to see Visa on this market and how will they handle all the process... but still I don't think Paypal will lose too much, and it won't die, that's for sure...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jone101
    Very Interesting read. Was not aware of the issues with PayPal and thanks for the heads-up. Unfortunately PayPal is the only affordable option in certain countries. The fees of the other providers are simply too expensive and then they do not provide services across the board.

    PayPal dying? Nah, think it is a bit premature to make a statement like that. Me thinks a bit of healthy competition will be awesome and to our benefit in the end. Still a happy PayPal customer but glad to have learned about the other providers out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author Juvv2096
    I watched a youtube video a few weeks ago about a company that is going against paypal, and offering flat rate transaction payments for any transaction, no matter the size. It was something stupid like 30 or 50 cents, even if you did like 10 grand.

    Seriously if they get big, they could shut paypal down I rekon.

    Sorry I cant remember their bloody name or else I would share it with you guys as they do operate out of America only.
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  • Profile picture of the author fxteam
    Paypal needs some real competition I remember the good ole days when we at least had stormpay that was competing with paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Link Money
    I like the idea, but think the url is too hard to remember.
    Wonder what their fees will be for business accounts?
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  • Profile picture of the author chrislangley
    It's about time Paypal had some competition, will make it great for the end users
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  • Profile picture of the author Fahu
    well I say its probably for the good, I'm sure something better will come along.
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  • Profile picture of the author Carmen_Hudson
    I won't be switching. Sure, I've had an issue or two with PayPal in the past, but no more than I've had with any other company I've ever done business with long term. PayPal has been very good to me and my business. I don't see myself switching to Visa, especially as I can take credit cards through PayPal too. I can understand why some people don't like them and like others have said, I'm sure competition will be healthy for everyone. But I intend to continue being a loyal customer.
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