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Affiliate Declaring in WSOs?

by Azarna
68 replies
I know that the US Federal Trade Commission requires affiliate sellers to declare their financial connection to products they are reviewing etc.

Does this also cover reviews in the WSO section etc? I often see what look like good products, followed by a pile of (suspicously) glowing reviews.

I have been told that often those reviews are from affiliates of the product

Do reviewers have to declare their financial interest in what they are reviewing here - and if not, could it not be a rule, please?

It seems very unfair on buyers otherwise.
#affiliate #declaring #wsos
  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Most of the positive reviews I receive on my WSO's are from customers and not affiliates.

    Some of the people who do review my products "self-declare" whether they received a complimentary copy or if they bought the product.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom B
      Banned
      Did you get an email promoting the product from someone? If not then the affiliate wouldn't get paid if you just wondered into the wso section on your own.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ash R
    Yep, most reviews are from customers. Some people get free review copies to provide a detailed review and they usually declare it.

    Affiliates don't make any money even if they post a review in the wso. They only make money if they provide you with their affiliate link to the wso.

    I promote wso's as an affiliate to my email list, and when I do so I have a disclaimer at the bottom. I think people who blog about wso's as an affiliate also use disclaimers on their blog
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    • Profile picture of the author timpears
      Originally Posted by Ash R View Post

      Yep, most reviews are from customers. Some people get free review copies to provide a detailed review and they usually declare it.
      I don't think so! Most WSO's have more testimonials than sales pitch. WSO sellers don't give out that many reviews. Typically I see them offer from about 3 to 5 review copies. The rest of the testimonials are from buyers.

      I have reviewed many WSO's and if I am asked to review one that I think is crap or the same old stuff, I will just not leave a review. So any time you see my testimonial, it is because I think the product is a good one. I am not going to lie just because I got a free copy.
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    This would be a very hard rule to enforce. In an ideal world EVERY customer would have to declare whether they received a free review copy or actually paid money for the program.

    Unfortunately it's not the case. As with any marketplace... buyer beware. You can usually get a pretty good idea of things by going through the sales copy and all the comments. If you're still unsure then don't purchase unless they offer some type of money back guarantee.

    If they do then you really have nothing to lose.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Azarna View Post

    I know that the US Federal Trade Commission requires affiliate sellers to declare their financial connection to products they are reviewing etc.
    ...if this is not reasonably obvious to the average person.

    Almost everyone on the Warrior Forum is a marketer, and almost every marketer here is an affiliate marketer, and almost every affiliate marketer will join the affiliate program of any product they like enough to give a review.

    You can and should assume that if a WSO has an affiliate program, any review posted on the Warrior Forum is indeed from an affiliate.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      ...if this is not reasonably obvious to the average person.

      Almost everyone on the Warrior Forum is a marketer, and almost every marketer here is an affiliate marketer, and almost every affiliate marketer will join the affiliate program of any product they like enough to give a review.

      You can and should assume that if a WSO has an affiliate program, any review posted on the Warrior Forum is indeed from an affiliate.
      Yes but not everyone knows that a WSO might have an affiliate offer attached to it. How does a newbie determine how a WSO is offering commissions to affiliates?

      My opinion is that if you are posting a review in the hope that someone will buy through a link you sent them, then you should have to acknowledge that you are an affiliate for the product. There are way too many affiliates that will be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd people to post in a brand new WSO as soon as it becomes live, and it is plainly obvious to those of us who have been here a while what their intentions are. They should be obliged to let everyone know that just like we have to add an affiliate discloser on our websites if we are promoting other peoples products.

      Why should the WSO section be any different that anywhere else?!
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

        Why should the WSO section be any different that anywhere else?!
        Because it isn't anywhere else.

        You are on a forum full of people who make money selling things on the internet. If they are helping to sell something, they probably make money for it.
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author linkwhizz
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      ...if this is not reasonably obvious to the average person.

      Almost everyone on the Warrior Forum is a marketer, and almost every marketer here is an affiliate marketer, and almost every affiliate marketer will join the affiliate program of any product they like enough to give a review.

      You can and should assume that if a WSO has an affiliate program, any review posted on the Warrior Forum is indeed from an affiliate.
      Bingo, a beautiful answer...

      People sometimes forget this forum is a marketers forum. It should be assumed that every recommendation is rewarded.

      Not to mention, why can I not leave a review if I haven't paid for a product? That is to assume that I would leave a good review for a bad product in order to make sales.

      That kind of business practise would not last long.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    A review posted by a an affiliate under a WSO does not have to have a disclaimer, because the affiliate is just a person in the thread. They are not posting links to an offer. There is no way for him to profit by somebody reading his review in the WSO thread.

    If that same review is posted on his website with an affiliate link to the offer, then there is a need for a disclaimer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      A review posted by a an affiliate under a WSO does not have to have a disclaimer, because the affiliate is just a person in the thread. They are not posting links to an offer. There is no way for him to profit by somebody reading his review in the WSO thread.

      If that same review is posted on his website with an affiliate link to the offer, then there is a need for a disclaimer.
      If they post a review/endorsement of the WSO and then send an email blast to their list, then they will make sales from it and that is their intention. It's as obvious as the nose on your face.
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

        If they post a review/endorsement of the WSO and then send an email blast to their list, then they will make sales from it and that is their intention. It's as obvious as the nose on your face.

        Have you seen EBR's face? I am not so sure that it is so obvious what part of his face is the nose on his face...


        Don't be mad at me Brian... I could not resist the chance to laugh at that comment...

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      • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
        Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

        If they post a review/endorsement of the WSO and then send an email blast to their list, then they will make sales from it and that is their intention. It's as obvious as the nose on your face.
        My mother said I have a cute nose. Now you tell me that my nose is "obvious". Sigh. Back to the therapist again.

        Your response has nothing to do with FTC requirements, which is what I thought this thread was about.

        A review posted in a chat forum that does not contain any affiliate links or monetization of the offer being reviewed does not require an affiliate disclaimer, regardless of whether or not the reviewer is an affiliate of the product elsewhere.

        If he has affiliate links on his website, then a disclaimer needs to be in place there.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

          Your response has nothing to do with FTC requirements, which is what I thought this thread was about.

          A review posted in a chat forum that does not contain any affiliate links or monetization of the offer being reviewed does not require an affiliate disclaimer, regardless of whether or not the reviewer is an affiliate of the product elsewhere.

          If he has affiliate links on his website, then a disclaimer needs to be in place there.

          It may also not apply to Mike, because he lives in Australia.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      There is no way for him to profit by somebody reading his review in the WSO thread.
      Not just for that, no, but there's always this little game running there.

      1. I post my great review in your WSO thread.

      2. You put my review in the OP. I have now effectively altered your sales copy to my advantage.

      3. I send my affiliate link to prospective customers who are particularly swayed by the kind of review I gave you.

      I may also be currying favour with the WSO author to get similar treatment in my own WSOs, or to get him to mail for me, or to score a JV deal, or whatever.

      There are a million ways to profit from a glowing review in a WSO thread, and most of them don't require an FTC disclosure... but the consumer should be aware that this is a marketing forum full of marketers who are all marketing to one another. So even if you can't see the angle, you should always assume there is one.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
        Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

        My mother said I have a cute nose. Now you tell me that my nose is "obvious". Sigh. Back to the therapist again.

        Your response has nothing to do with FTC requirements, which is what I thought this thread was about.

        A review posted in a chat forum that does not contain any affiliate links or monetization of the offer being reviewed does not require an affiliate disclaimer, regardless of whether or not the reviewer is an affiliate of the product elsewhere.

        If he has affiliate links on his website, then a disclaimer needs to be in place there.
        The response you quoted may not have anything to do with the FTC requirements, but my first does. The response you quoted me on was in response to your post.

        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Not just for that, no, but there's always this little game running there.

        1. I post my great review in your WSO thread.

        2. You put my review in the OP. I have now effectively altered your sales copy to my advantage.

        3. I send my affiliate link to prospective customers who are particularly swayed by the kind of review I gave you.

        I may also be currying favour with the WSO author to get similar treatment in my own WSOs, or to get him to mail for me, or to score a JV deal, or whatever.

        There are a million ways to profit from a glowing review in a WSO thread, and most of them don't require an FTC disclosure... but the consumer should be aware that this is a marketing forum full of marketers who are all marketing to one another. So even if you can't see the angle, you should always assume there is one.
        To assume everyone knows the same as you is just plain silly if you ask me. Just because this is a marketing forum doesn't mean that everyone viewing it is going to assume that any review posted is going to be in relation to a commission. New people to IM especially won't! I never did when I first came here and I'm most others didn't either.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          Not just for that, no, but there's always this little game running there.

          1. I post my great review in your WSO thread.

          2. You put my review in the OP. I have now effectively altered your sales copy to my advantage.

          3. I send my affiliate link to prospective customers who are particularly swayed by the kind of review I gave you.

          I may also be currying favour with the WSO author to get similar treatment in my own WSOs, or to get him to mail for me, or to score a JV deal, or whatever.

          There are a million ways to profit from a glowing review in a WSO thread, and most of them don't require an FTC disclosure... but the consumer should be aware that this is a marketing forum full of marketers who are all marketing to one another. So even if you can't see the angle, you should always assume there is one.
          Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

          To assume everyone knows the same as you is just plain silly if you ask me. Just because this is a marketing forum doesn't mean that everyone viewing it is going to assume that any review posted is going to be in relation to a commission. New people to IM especially won't! I never did when I first came here and I'm most others didn't either.

          To assume that most people "just don't get it" is silly to me...

          For example, this page we are on right now:

          www.warriorforum.com/main-internet-marketing-discussion-forum/491620-affiliate-declaring-wsos.html

          And... Look at the very first page that all users see when they come to the Warrior Forum. Take note of red underlines and highlight boxes:


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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

          To assume everyone knows the same as you is just plain silly if you ask me.
          There is no assumption involved. Anyone who doesn't know what kind of forum they're using doesn't belong on it.

          That goes for every forum everywhere. If you do not know what kind of community you are in, you do not belong there. Either find out where you are and how to belong, or shut up and go away.
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          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            There is no assumption involved. Anyone who doesn't know what kind of forum they're using doesn't belong on it.

            That goes for every forum everywhere. If you do not know what kind of community you are in, you do not belong there. Either find out where you are and how to belong, or shut up and go away.
            It's one thing to know what kind of forum you are on compared to automatically expecting every review you see in a WSO thread to be linked to someone trying to makes sales as an affiliate!
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

              It's one thing to know what kind of forum you are on compared to automatically expecting every review you see in a WSO thread to be linked to someone trying to makes sales as an affiliate!
              A reasonable and prudent person is naturally and normally skeptical of any review for any product which has been posted by a marketer.

              All reviews of all products in the WSO section have been posted by marketers.

              If you can't connect the dots on that, it's not my problem.
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              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
                Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                A reasonable and prudent person is naturally and normally skeptical of any review for any product which has been posted by a marketer.

                All reviews of all products in the WSO section have been posted by marketers.

                If you can't connect the dots on that, it's not my problem.
                I think you're connecting dots that aren't there. I don't know what research you did to find out that every single review in the WSO section comes from a person who calls themself a marketer.

                It appears to me that 10% of reviews are from people who have just joined the forum and are looking into how to become IMers. That certainly doesn't make them a marketer.

                If you were to go to a new car yard to look at a new car and someone came up and gave you advice, would you assume they were a car salesman?!
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

                  I think you're connecting dots that aren't there. I don't know what research you did to find out that every single review in the WSO section comes from a person who calls themself a marketer.
                  I think what he means is most people here consider themselves to be that or at least are wanting to be that and if they want to be, they probably tell everyone they are.

                  If you were to go to a new car yard to look at a new car and someone came up and gave you advice, would you assume they were a car salesman?!
                  I would. I'm buying a car, if they want to sell it to me and they had any business sense, they ought to be a salesperson.

                  Sorry but what would you assume they were?
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                • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                  Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

                  It appears to me that 10% of reviews are from people who don't know what they're talking about.
                  And when someone who does not know what they're talking about gives you advice, you should... ?

                  Anyone?

                  Bueller?
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                  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
                    Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                    And when someone who does not know what they're talking about gives you advice, you should... ?

                    Anyone?

                    Bueller?
                    Well it appears that we both disagree with the others points of view. I will leave it at that with no hard feelings.
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                    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                      Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

                      Well it appears that we both disagree with the others points of view.
                      It appears to me that you just argued we shouldn't assume people leaving reviews are marketers, because it looks to you like about 10% of them aren't.
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                      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
                        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                        It appears to me that you just argued we shouldn't assume people leaving reviews are marketers, because it looks to you like about 10% of them aren't.
                        Just let it go mate.
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                        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                          Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

                          Just let it go mate.
                          You don't seem to understand that forum posts are forever. This is not a chat session which disappears when we drop the subject. The thread could show up in a search months or even years down the road.

                          It's not actually "letting it go." It's "letting the record stand."
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                          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                          • Profile picture of the author sal64
                            Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

                            Similar to how us Aussies feel about the people who live in Tasmania. We say they sleep with their cousins, have 6 fingers, etc.
                            Similar to how we make fun of Queenslanders... because our North is like the American South... full of red necks and yokels. Except for Bill and Brian of course. They were just unfortunate to be born in the wrong place.

                            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                            You don't seem to understand that forum posts are forever. This is not a chat session which disappears when we drop the subject. The thread could show up in a search months or even years down the road.

                            It's not actually "letting it go." It's "letting the record stand."
                            Mate I am actually starting to automatically open threads where I've seen you post... very scary Caliban... very scary.

                            Note to self: Bookmark this thread and bump it in 2015 for amusement purposes.
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                            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                              Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

                              Note to self: Bookmark this thread and bump it in 2015 for amusement purposes.
                              Someone on another forum once posted a link to a site on the internet called "Flame Warriors" listing different kinds of people who start flame wars.

                              One of the types is the "Necromancer," who posts in very old threads to revive old pointless discussions.

                              So I bookmarked the thread and went back to the forum two years later to post "personally, I am a Necromancer" in it...
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                              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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                            • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
                              Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

                              Similar to how we make fun of Queenslanders... because our North is like the American South... full of red necks and yokels. Except for Bill and Brian of course. They were just unfortunate to be born in the wrong place.
                              I was born in Boston. I just live down south because it makes me feel smart.

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                        • Profile picture of the author tpw
                          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

                          It appears to me that you just argued we shouldn't assume people leaving reviews are marketers, because it looks to you like about 10% of them aren't.
                          Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

                          Just let it go mate.

                          Technically Mike, you started it...

                          In your always desperate attempt to try to prove to someone that you are more honest than the rest of us. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        but the consumer should be aware that this is a marketing forum full of marketers who are all marketing to one another. So even if you can't see the angle, you should always assume there is one.
        Can I make the assumption then that everyone here can tell his a*** from his elbow?

        Jeez, I must be underestimating some of the members here.

        A reasonable and prudent person
        That's not how I'd describe a lot of people here.

        That goes for every forum everywhere. If you do not know what kind of community you are in, you do not belong there. Either find out where you are and how to belong, or shut up and go away.
        I like that and will campaign for it.
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        Wibble, bark, my old man's a mushroom etc...

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  • Profile picture of the author Kecia
    This may be slightly off topic but it can help you spot genuine reviews over affiliate or friendly promotions.

    Read the reviews carefully and see if they actually sound as if the person has a copy of the product. I've noticed several WSO's where the first few comments merely recommend the product owner and don't even mention the particular product being sold. To me, this just sounds like friendly promotion rather than an honest review.

    Others may say things like "be sure to grab this insane offer now!!!" which can sound more like a continuation of the salesletter rather than a review.

    Unless the review is thorough and actually mentions things that relate to the product, I take it with a grain of salt.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Kecia View Post

      This may be slightly off topic but it can help you spot genuine reviews over affiliate or friendly promotions.

      Read the reviews carefully and see if they actually sound as if the person has a copy of the product. I've noticed several WSO's where the first few comments merely recommend the product owner and don't even mention the particular product being sold. To me, this just sounds like friendly promotion rather than an honest review.

      Others may say things like "be sure to grab this insane offer now!!!" which can sound more like a continuation of the salesletter rather than a review.

      Unless the review is thorough and actually mentions things that relate to the product, I take it with a grain of salt.

      You nailed it.

      My friends who vouch for me don't pretend to be reviewing the product. They are clearly saying that they "believe in me", rather than my product.

      People who bought my product talk about the product.

      You seem to be very on the ball when it comes to cutting through the bull****, so you are already on good footing for figuring out what is reputable and what is questionable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ash R
      Originally Posted by Kecia View Post

      This may be slightly off topic but it can help you spot genuine reviews over affiliate or friendly promotions.

      Read the reviews carefully and see if they actually sound as if the person has a copy of the product. I've noticed several WSO's where the first few comments merely recommend the product owner and don't even mention the particular product being sold. To me, this just sounds like friendly promotion rather than an honest review.

      Others may say things like "be sure to grab this insane offer now!!!" which can sound more like a continuation of the salesletter rather than a review.

      Unless the review is thorough and actually mentions things that relate to the product, I take it with a grain of salt.
      Just wanted to chime in with Kecia here for a moment. When i buy wso's I usually try to read between the lines of reviews and see what the reviewers actually say about the product.

      Most people who leave detailed reviews will reveal a lot about the product itself.

      So whether or not the review is from an affiliate, a potential buyer can find it useful.
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      Don't sweat the small stuff :)
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      • Profile picture of the author Azarna
        Thank you for all the replies (even the ones that I think were calling me stupid, lol).

        I had forgotten that one would be buying from the OP of the WSO, so no reviewers could directly profit from that particular offer of the item anyway!

        I have bought one WSO, and only bought that because it was also available as a real book and had good reviews on Amazon - so I trusted it.

        I am very cynical of the reviews on WSOs. If a product has loads of 'this is brilliant, its a no brainer', I just click away. That is not a review, that is someone posting for a mate, heh.

        So, ironically perhaps, I am far more likely to read about one that has reviews with the odd negative in them - simply because NOTHING is perfect so I believe that the reviewer is a real purchaser giving their honest opinion - warts and all.

        And a few warts do not put me off, but a complete whitewash does (I do like to mix metaphors lately).
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        • Profile picture of the author WillR
          Originally Posted by Azarna View Post

          I am far more likely to read about one that has reviews with the odd negative in them - simply because NOTHING is perfect so I believe that the reviewer is a real purchaser giving their honest opinion - warts and all.
          You hit the nail on the head and a lot of product owners don't understand this. The odd review that points out things that could be improved will usually help your situation and look a lot more authentic. It all depends how you, as the product owner, react to them.

          Some product owners will get all defensive and argue with the person making the suggestions. This does no good for the product owner. Quite often they end up making a fool of themselves in public. The smart vendors however will publicly acknowledge the feedback, thank the person for leaving it, and reply to that feedback in a sensible manner. It's what differentiates a rookie from a pro.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
    Perhaps there should be a sticky in every section now that reads "If you read a review/testimonial from a fellow member, presume they are trying to build an income from it".
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

      Perhaps there should be a sticky in every section now that reads "If you read a review/testimonial from a fellow member, presume they are trying to build an income from it".

      I totally disagree. You joined an Internet Marketing Forum when you became a WarriorForum member. This is where you learn about marketing, you are able to buy and sell marketing products, so to put a disclaimer in every section is kind of redundant, don't you think?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
    I understand that this is a marketing forum Bill, and so will most people, but some people are just plain ...... to realize. Everything is not as clear cut as it appears to some of us as it appears to everyone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
    Originally Posted by Azarna View Post

    I know that the US Federal Trade Commission requires affiliate sellers to declare their financial connection to products they are reviewing etc.

    Does this also cover reviews in the WSO section etc? I often see what look like good products, followed by a pile of (suspicously) glowing reviews.

    I have been told that often those reviews are from affiliates of the product

    Do reviewers have to declare their financial interest in what they are reviewing here - and if not, could it not be a rule, please?

    It seems very unfair on buyers otherwise.
    Not legal advice and I am not a lawyer.
    I believe if there is any material connection it has to be declared if I send an offer with an affiliate link it is clear if they click that link and buy I get something for it. I don't think it matters what venue it is in but I can be mistaken.

    If on the other hand it is outright fraudulent and reviews are not real then that is a different story, normally if I review something I do not promote it for the very reason you stated if I have something to gain it completely makes the review useless it is not unbiased but bias so not much point in that.

    so I think declaring you will make something off it if they purchase should be declared and I would rather be safe then sorry
    cheers
    -WD
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    The only people that I don't believe will understand that this is a marketing forum is people from Arkansas... LOL

    If you lived here in Oklahoma, you would understand that we make fun of people from Arkansas as if they didn't have the brains God gave a gnat...

    In the North, they make fun of anyone from the South...

    In the South, we make fun of each other...

    The only people slower than people from Arkansas is people from Mississippi... Right Brian? :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      The only people that I don't believe will understand that this is a marketing forum is people from Arkansas... LOL

      If you lived here in Oklahoma, you would understand that we make fun of people from Arkansas as if they didn't have the brains God gave a gnat...

      In the North, they make fun of anyone from the South...

      In the South, we make fun of each other...

      The only people slower than people from Arkansas is people from Mississippi... Right Brian? :p
      Similar to how us Aussies feel about the people who live in Tasmania. We say they sleep with their cousins, have 6 fingers, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
    That person giving you advice on the car you are looking at good just be someone who bought the same car recently and has brought their car in for a service, notices you looking at the same car and tells you how good a car it is.

    I never assume anything about a person until it comes out of their mouth or they type it on their computer. Not everyone we see in the same surroundings as us have the same intentions!
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

      That person giving you advice on the car you are looking at good just be someone who bought the same car recently and has brought their car in for a service, notices you looking at the same car and tells you how good a car it is.
      Wow! Aussies are friendly at car lots

      In America if someone approaches you at a car lot you run...

      ... unless of course you are wishing to be sold too
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    • Profile picture of the author Coby
      Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

      That person giving you advice on the car you are looking at good just be someone who bought the same car recently and has brought their car in for a service, notices you looking at the same car and tells you how good a car it is.
      Wow! Aussies are friendly at car lots

      In America if someone approaches you at a car lot you run...

      ... unless of course you are wishing to be sold too

      In fact if someone walked up and started talking to me outta the blue about the car and WASN'T a salesman I would think that person was very weird... :p
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Coby View Post

        Wow! Aussies are friendly at car lots

        In America if someone approaches you at a car lot you run...

        ... unless of course you are wishing to be sold too

        In fact if someone walked up and started talking to me outta the blue about the car and WASN'T a salesman I would think that person was very weird... :p

        It must be because you are a former-Okie, but I thought the same thing when he said it. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Yeah, we are still in the dark ages down here...

        Where strangers smile and say good morning to each other....

        Where we can still go out at night without fear of being mugged...

        Where gas station attendants aren't locked in behind bullet proof glass...

        I guess one day we'll catch up with 21st century US of A.

        Life is good down here.


        Originally Posted by Coby View Post

        Wow! Aussies are friendly at car lots

        In America if someone approaches you at a car lot you run...

        ... unless of course you are wishing to be sold too

        In fact if someone walked up and started talking to me outta the blue about the car and WASN'T a salesman I would think that person was very weird... :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
        Originally Posted by Coby View Post

        Wow! Aussies are friendly at car lots

        In America if someone approaches you at a car lot you run...

        ... unless of course you are wishing to be sold too

        In fact if someone walked up and started talking to me outta the blue about the car and WASN'T a salesman I would think that person was very weird... :p
        It was just an analogy! Not to be taken seriously. :confused:
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

          It was just an analogy! Not to be taken seriously.
          Analogies that cannot be taken seriously are probably bad ones.
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  • Profile picture of the author zamzung
    In my opinion, no matter how affiliate is promoting products, they should include affiliate disclaimer somewhere (on their website, blog post and even in emails)... i don't pay much attention to that because I know that each email I get with a recommendation to some product or WSO is actually an affiliate email, so I know they are connected that way... I guess we all know that since we are involved with internet marketing...

    Related or not, it doesn't matter to me... because I rarely buy something based on reviews, since I know many of them are just affiliate reviews... I'm buying depending on the facts that some product or WSO can do for me...
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert H Cwik
    Wow, that was a long and hard reading here.

    I think that the whole problem can be reduced to two sentences, but some people here really can't tell their nose from their .... (make Freud happy, put any part of your body that comes first to your mind here )

    Sentence 1: Reviews in the WSO thread, no matter how good, bad or ugly, MUST NOT and DO NOT contain affiliate links and so can't be treated as affiliate offers. End of Story 1.

    Sentence 2: If you send an e-mail with your review AND your affiliate link in it, you should include material connection statement (the same with your blog) if the law in your country so requires. End of Story 2.

    All further discussion is simply pointless.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Robert H Cwik View Post

      Sentence 1: Reviews in the WSO thread, no matter how good, bad or ugly, MUST NOT and DO NOT contain affiliate links and so can't be treated as affiliate offers. End of Story 1.
      You really don't get it.

      A Warrior will go to a WSO thread and post a glowing review of the WSO, then apply for his affiliate link.

      The WSO vendor approves his request because he left such a great review.

      Now the affiliate goes and emails his list. The list sees his disclaimer.

      But everyone else reading the threads sees the same review in the sales copy, which is not really there because the product is great. It is there because the reviewer is going to apply to be an affiliate.

      The review, in short, is just a supplicant stroking the vendor's cane to see if he can get a commission bump or some other kind of preferential treatment.

      But he's not promoting an affiliate link in the WSO thread. Technically, he's only promoting the original WSO, in which he does not have a stake at the time the review is written. Legally, he is not required to write a disclaimer.

      But the review is still utter garbage written for personal gain, not out of goodwill and concern for his fellow consumers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        You really don't get it.

        A Warrior will go to a WSO thread and post a glowing review of the WSO, then apply for his affiliate link.

        The WSO vendor approves his request because he left such a great review.

        Now the affiliate goes and emails his list. The list sees his disclaimer.

        But everyone else reading the threads sees the same review in the sales copy, which is not really there because the product is great. It is there because the reviewer is going to apply to be an affiliate.

        The review, in short, is just a supplicant stroking the vendor's cane to see if he can get a commission bump or some other kind of preferential treatment.

        But he's not promoting an affiliate link in the WSO thread. Technically, he's only promoting the original WSO, in which he does not have a stake at the time the review is written. Legally, he is not required to write a disclaimer.

        But the review is still utter garbage written for personal gain, not out of goodwill and concern for his fellow consumers.
        I personally see it the other way around Caliban. For me members who have already become an affiliate for a particular WSO will write a review as soon as they have become aware of the WSO going live (hence why we see so many 'glowing' reviews at the top) and then they go and send their email list a message about the WSO promoting it. Their subscribers then go to the WSO thread and see the list owner/affiliate has left such a great review and then go ahead and purchase solely on that review.

        This is the sole reason why I believe that affiliates should state that they are infact so, because the only reason they have left a review is in hopes that their subscribers will buy the product so they get a commission.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

          I personally see it the other way around Caliban.
          You're missing the point.

          For me members who have already become an affiliate for a particular WSO will write a review
          But if I'm NOT an affiliate when I write the review, then I do NOT have to put a disclaimer on it because I am NOT an affiliate for the WSO.

          So I can post a glowing review on the thread, and THEN go sign up as an affiliate... after posting the review.

          No disclaimer is necessary.

          Their subscribers then
          ...SEE THE DISCLAIMER THE AFFILIATES ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO PUT IN THEIR EMAIL.

          The problem is not their subscribers. The problem is people like you, who are not their subscribers, and do not see the disclaimer. All you see is a glowing review from someone you don't know. That review was left by someone who was not an affiliate for the product at the time, so no disclaimer was necessary.

          But the review was still left for the sole purpose of making sales as an affiliate.

          You are trying to make a rule based on what someone was thinking when they posted their review. This is not an enforceable rule.
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          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
            Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

            I totally disagree. You joined an Internet Marketing Forum when you became a WarriorForum member. This is where you learn about marketing, you are able to buy and sell marketing products, so to put a disclaimer in every section is kind of redundant, don't you think?
            Is that like using your left turn signal when you're clearly in a "Left Turn Only" lane at a stop light redundant?

            Originally Posted by Robert H Cwik View Post

            All further discussion is simply pointless.
            Yea, right...:rolleyes:

            Caliban,

            In your way of thinking the 'pre-affiliate' review is legally static even after the reviewer becomes an affiliate. You don't think the 'legal relationship' between the marketer and the affiliate changes that reviews' status.

            It's been assumed the affiliate would only send prospects to the WSO via email. However, such a prospect could be sent via other means such as a sig link outside of the WF, as an example.

            I'm not sure this is so black and white...

            But if I'm NOT an affiliate when I write the review, then I do NOT have to put a disclaimer on it because I am NOT an affiliate for the WSO.

            So I can post a glowing review on the thread, and THEN go sign up as an affiliate... after posting the review.

            No disclaimer is necessary
            ~Bill
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            • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
              Originally Posted by Bill Farnham View Post

              Is that like using your left turn signal when you're clearly in a "Left Turn Only" lane at a stop light redundant?



              ~Bill
              hey, that resembles me, Bill!
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    • Profile picture of the author Damielle
      I've found this thread to be very entertaining as well as informative.

      I think sometimes we forget that we are on a marketing forum where the point is to make money. We are all different, and see things differently but we certainly should not be offended when people market to us on a marketing forum.

      Just saying...
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  • Profile picture of the author flamewave
    I have seen the same guys speaking up the same persons products, usaually followed by a cringe worthy "are you insane selling at those prices!!" sort of comment. I largely ignore these.
    That being said unless i followed a link to the WSO then affiliate do not make anything. They may however hold an intrest in that product and receive it on the actual sale regardless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Baker
    I'm not missing any freaking point man! I'm telling you how I see why these glowing reviews are being left and you're telling me why you think they are doing it.

    You say that someone leaves a review before they become an affiliate and I believe they leave the review after they have become an affiliate.

    You're trying to tell me that the review was left by someone who has either bought the product or is pretending to have bought the product and then goes of to Warrior Plus to apply to become an affiliate for the product. I don't believe that's how members do things.

    This is what I believe is happening:

    Members of the Warrior Forum who have become aware that there is an affiliate system linked to some of the WSO's will go and register to become an affiliate and pay the $3.95 a month registration fee.
    They then go and see what offers they can apply to become an affiliate on through the Warrior Plus system.
    They find an offer they think will convert well and apply to the owner of the product to become an affiliate.
    Once approved they will go to the WSO thread and write a "glowing review".
    They send an email to their list and when their subscribers purchase they get a commission.

    When we see the same people posting at the top of WSO threads with their "glowing reviews" they have typically been notified by the WSO Owner when the WSO is going to go live so they can post their review at the top. When a subscribers reads the WSO thread, their list owner's review will be at the top and they will purchase based solely on their review.


    Now compare that to what you are saying:

    You are saying that a member reads a WSO offer and thinks "awesome" and writes a "glowing review" and then goes to Warrior Plus to apply to become an affiliate for the product.
    The WSO owner approves them based on their "glowing review".
    The new affiliate send an email to their list
    Subscribers purchases


    To me, what you are saying doesn't appear logical. Why would someone write a review and then apply to become an affiliate? You think that the great review is going to help them get approved?
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Zamantra Marketing View Post

      I don't believe that's how members do things.
      Yes, but you made that up in your head.

      I sell products online for a living.

      Believe whichever you want.
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        If they post a review/endorsement of the WSO and then send an email blast to their list, then they will make sales from it and that is their intention. It's as obvious as the nose on your face.
        Meanwhile, back in the real world, one has little if any relation to the other. And when they send that email blast, they are supposed to disclose that they are an affiliate, making your entire argument moot anyway.

        Much ado about nothing....but that's pretty much the norm around here.
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        • Profile picture of the author linkwhizz
          I am in the "WSO circle" and I can tell you that the glowing reviews that are left on threads are left by guys that are doing it to support a friend.

          Most guys do it the same way as me. I get a review copy a few days before, I will go through it and if it is something I want to promote I will send out my email with my review and affiliate link.

          If the vendor is a personal friend or the product is especially good then I will post in the thread too.

          Some people on this thread are missing one big point. My presell is done at my first interaction with my customer which is always by email, my review in a thread "might" add a few more sales. But my email copy should be compelling enough on it's own.

          The big problem with certain people is that you think like a consumer, not a marketer. You complain about practises that are at the heart of our great industry, yet you spend your life in this marketing forum. Maybe the industry is not for some people.

          I treat my subscribers like intelligent adults, I assume they have an interest in Internet marketing products and I point them in the direction of what I believe are good ones.

          It is not up to me or anyone to assume that some people are dumb enough, which I don't believe they are anyway, to not know that on a marketing forum they are very likely to be interacting with people that are selling to each other.

          Common sense is the disclaimer.
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          • Profile picture of the author Robert H Cwik
            Originally Posted by linkwhizz View Post

            I am in the "WSO circle" and I can tell you that the glowing reviews that are left on threads are left by guys that are doing it to support a friend.

            Most guys do it the same way as me. I get a review copy a few days before, I will go through it and if it is something I want to promote I will send out my email with my review and affiliate link.
            ---cut---
            I don't even get a review copy. I simply have my WSO notifications set up = WSO of the day. If something pops up, I just go and see. If it is something I can use, I buy it, and then I think it only fair enough to share my opinion after I have reviewed/used it.

            Since these WSO are mostly high quality, I usually leave positive feedback.

            I apply for being an affiliate only after I have used what I have bought and it has produced results for me. This sometimes leaves me behind as the WSO I want to promote may get closed...
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            • Profile picture of the author linkwhizz
              Originally Posted by Robert H Cwik View Post

              I don't even get a review copy. I simply have my WSO notifications set up = WSO of the day. If something pops up, I just go and see. If it is something I can use, I buy it, and then I think it only fair enough to share my opinion after I have reviewed/used it.

              Since these WSO are mostly high quality, I usually leave positive feedback.

              I apply for being an affiliate only after I have used what I have bought and it has produced results for me. This sometimes leaves me behind as the WSO I want to promote may get closed...
              Thats fair enough but I get sent the review copies, i never ask for them and i dont have time to go look for offers to promote.

              My review is completely the same regardless of whether I have paid for the product or not. Of course I am sure there are people who give good reviews for bad products to help a friend or just to make sales but that is not a sustainable business model and those guys will get weeded out by natural selection.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i am pretty sure EBR has it right on this one from the legal point of view.

    the only place an affiliate is required to disclose that they are an affiliate is when they link to the wso offer from their site or in their promotional email.

    now if those reviews are incentivised, which can easily be argued due to the affiliate relationships, then the product owner may in fact have some additional responsibilities of disclosures. but i am not sure of the law on this exactly for several reasons. one of which is the mere fact that the review may or may not be incentiviced at all, and that will depend upon whether the affiliate makes any sales of the product.

    personally, i dont put much into any review by anyone. i am smart enough to know that it is very likely there is some motivation for well over 50% of the positive reviews left on WF. some are affiliates, some are looking to make "friends" so their new buddy will promote their stuff, others received review copies for any number of reasons.

    the key is to understand that from a buyers perspective. and yes some of us with years of experience do understand it and realize whats going on. however, the majority of WSO buyers dont have that level of experience.

    and this is where the moral stuff comes in. should you use the fact that most customers dont fully understand all the in's and outs of the sales process and whats really going on?

    This sort of stuff is whats kept me out of the IM game. i am just not comfortable doing that sort of thing. sure, i can see where it can be argued that its not the sellers responsibility, and that is true. but that still does not make it the right thing to do.

    i guess thats where each seller has to make their stand. for me, if you are good enough, it will show up. sure your sales would go down for a bit if you used a full disclosure methodology, but you would set yourself apart (above) from the crowd.

    i guess i am not totally convinced a person could compete and play fully and i mean fully above the board. and thats not a stab at wso sellers or others in IM, but to a man, some of us do in fact realize that there are games being played, and those who can least afford it are losing at those games.

    lets face it, if 80+% of your sales page is describing how a person can make five figures in 90 days, and then in small print you are forced by the FTC to put "results not typical" are you really playing above the board?

    edit: sorry if my posts get this thread locked or nuked. i am sure my post wont sit well with a lot of folks here. but it is how i see things through some very experienced eyes.
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  • Profile picture of the author flamewave
    If the review is posted purely based on the hope of a return then I think it needs to be highlighted. Its unfair to post a biased review on a public forum for a product that you have an interest in selling. Regardless of if you are currently selling or intend to promote. Its crap, and screams fake as soon as I see them.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrislangley
    This seems like another loophole for the FTC to exploit
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