Piracy - Where Do You Draw The Line?

It isn't a slippery slope. Some people don't think twice about stealing, and some don't do it. But yes, you are a hypocrite if you download TV shows and fault him for theft as well.

Wow, that poor VA. I can't believe you dropped him after you admitted to doing the same.

That's a lot of Karma to make up before Christmas.

Stealing is stealing. There is no gray area. Believe it or not, there are people who just don't pirate and that's the line. You can watch TV shows online legally, and if someone isn't able to earn enough to legally own that big name graphics software (by the way, adobe cs is what, $130 month if you can't afford to buy it outright?) then I don't think they really need it.

It doesn't matter if this is an IM product or a TV show. People have worked hard to create it, and they deserve to get paid. Period.

Pdrs,

At least you had the courage to admit it. Most people would never admit to it

5% will always be dishonest even if they don' t get anything out of it.
5% won't, even if their life depends on it.
The rest of us- we're just adapting to what we perceive to be honest or dishonest.

Unless a person is from the 5% who are honest ALL THE TIME, he/she should not judge others.

Stealing is bad, but that's just something to think about...

Stealing is wrong, regardless of the industry it is in. It's definitely harder to control online than anywhere else. You can't exactly put a loss prevention officer on a webpage and say, here watch this for illegal downloads (although...I'm sure that would help unemployment. Someone get on creating that system). It takes money out of all of our pockets when people steal content, same way it does with Music, TV, and other creative industries. Is all the money gone? No. Are we going to end up broke and homeless? Probably not. It's a problem that needs to be dealt with somehow. Smart people: get on that.

the internet has created a loose feeling of IP.

Barriers are very grey now. I remember as a young teen with no money, and my parents were not interested in helping me to enjoy life at all... Downloading whatever game would run on my computer, it was basically the joy of my childhood. Had it not been for my skils at finding games to play, I would of had almost nothing to enjoy on my computer where I ended up finding my career...

I always wanted to buy the games when I could afford it, and now that I am older and have steady income, I regularily buy my games!! The reason for me is: If I like it, I want there to be more of it, so I support it!!

I feel in the meta level someway there is this personal choice revolution in buying things. We buy now not because we thirst for it and have to have it, and then regret it. We buy because love what we got and we want to show support.

I think its a great value that has come out shining as a result of the rampant grey areas presented in the modern picture.

Bottom line is: Someone worked hard for that thing you are enjoying, and while we all know the bitter pain of not being able to enjoy something especially when its digital and of no physical loss to the owner - It is stealing to not pay him what he asks to enjoy his creation. Now there is a little problem here:

I know at least myself is part of a group/religion/country where our law is: Someones property is protected and you are not allowed to use it but what is found in the public areas is considered ownerless, because an owner who lets say, left their cellphone in the middle of the busy public street gives up he will find it. With this principle we then ask, what is the status of the Internet, and if it is considered a public area, then whatever is found in the public area that you can get, its considered ownerless.

This means that if you find an album for download freely, you can download it because internet is public domain and therefore whatever is found is ownerless on it.

The otherside which is actually really nice, is that while you can download what is there, it is AGAINST the law and moral fabric that keeps society on the good side of the fence to take what is not yours and put it on the public domain for everyone to take freely. Because when you do this, you caused that person financial loss.

Therefore: If you buy a game, and put it online, or crack it and put it online, you are the one who is responsible for the damage to the original party, while anyone who downloads it morally is in the grey area at best, but is not directly damaging someone.

So I suggest for those who are not strict on the US version of these laws, to consider that someone worked hard on that product, and by you just taking it you are causing them to fail where they really succeeded. It will cause damage to productivity and success in general and will stifle the goals of ones who created the product now losing a lot of revenue from everyone getting it for free. Buy your products as much as you can to support the companies you enjoy working with. But listen, if you are downloading stuff online - don't pretend like its murder or stealing because its not. But when YOU buy something and then put it online freely for others, you have definitely done a very bad thing in many ways.

OK as for the TV Shows. Basically it boils down to a certain set of episodes that my gf and I watch every Thursday night

We can watch the shows for free on the cable package we have paid for but be subjected to 7 minutes of advertising... along with each show. Or we can wait 30 minutes until the shows have aired, grab em on whatever torrent site and watch them commercial free.

Still stealing - you bet... Do I feel really bad about it... not so much Whats the difference of just using a PVR and fast forwarding through the ads...

The 'big name graphics software' - absolutely stealing - and as someone pointed out I should definitely just pony up the cash since it is part of my business after all. But after going through all of my other software - that is the one piece that I haven't actually paid for.

This whole incident has really made me give an honest look at what I have stolen and what I have paid for. I'm also a professional musician and absolutely loathe music sharing etc... So you can bet that any music I own has been bought legally.

...Although I once downloaded a Metallica album straight into my Recycle Bin just so I could steal from them and not have to listen to it...

So I guess my personal line is:

I'm going to continue to download the odd TV show to get past the advertisements - at least till I get my PVR - I only watch about 3 shows a week anyways and I'll justify it to my maker when the time comes

As for everything else I do believe it is straight up stealing and we've seen a huge loss in the creative sectors because of this.

I'm really surprised there haven't been more people willing to be a bit more honest about their online activities - I guess online piracy is a bit like buying a Nickleback album. No body will admit to it but there are millions of people doing it

this is a tough subject. Regardless of where you fall there is only one line and it drawn deeply in the sand at completely right and completely wrong with the sand on either side being justified as gray for miles in every direction. Is it stealing to taste a grape in the grocery store without paying for it when they are priced by the pound? Is it stealing to not claim every single penny of income that you made when it comes to file your taxes? Is it stealing to take someone else's research and rewrite it to meet your needs?

As I a writer I am often asked to write things that I do not agree with. I am able to sleep at night by having drawn my own line in the sand that allows me to sleep. I protect the works developed my clients, I buy, read and borrow liberally from all types of sources. Sometimes they are rewritten in another light but most times they are used to produce ideas.

There is an old saying that goes "There is nothing new under the sun," at times I believe this and then I happen across an idea that seems very new until I continue to research and find a different version of the same idea.

Draw your own line, treat everyone like you treat the most dear person in your life and you will have much success. Of that I am sure!

David

And of course the last post raises a somewhat related issue in terms of "rewrites" etc...

99.9% of people that upload music videos to Youtube are not paying royalties to the respective artists. Is watching them stealing? Is the uploader the thief?

Now switch the example to downloading a cracked version of Adobe Suite on ISOhunt. Ethically there is no difference.

...and don't try to tell me you haven't watched a music video on Youtube. You're all guilty.

Adobe Suite is so expensive!

I think only large agencies can afford it!

It is a hard thing to be perfect. I know how you feel. I have had friends give me products before. It is hard to point fingers at people without three of them pointing back at you. None of us are perfect. But now you have realized what you are doing, what are you going to do about it?

I personally try not to make judgements about people and their habits. Unless their actions affect me directly, it is hard to put myself in their shoes so I just try to mind my own business. I figure that it doesn't really matter what other people think of me. The only ones that matter are my wife and my family, and what I think about myself. So are you happy with yourself, or do you want to pay for that software you pirated? Only you can make that decision. But you have taken the first step, which is admitting your faults.

Good luck.

You don't.

As someone mentioned above, doers do, others don't. Nobody does it partially.

Further, don't think that those who stole/downloaded your WSO were ever going to buy it otherwise. They would wait for it, and/otherwise, move on. So no money lost as far as you are concerned. IF it still doesn't feel good, think of it as a repayment of the graphic program you so affectionately mentioned. :p See, there is natural justice after all! There is no way out, you know?

Ken

I think piracy is really popular in college because everybody is broke and there's an idea that you're entitled to stuff you can't afford... which is a whole different rant.

It goes like this, what goes around comes around, do unto to others, if want and promote such an action it is likely what you will get.
Keep the piracy as close to zero on all counts, it only makes sense.
This is one topic closer related to my niches than the usual.
I didn't change overnight, but over the years I've gotten to the point where I don't do it at all.

Well, you basically have two choices.

You can hold yourself to the same moral standard, or you can stop being such a jerk about other people's moral standards.

There's no real "right" answer. It's just a question of which one makes you feel less like a doucheball.

Great responses all around.

I guess I can elaborate a little more.

The dude already told me once he was out stealing this and that and the other thing... I basically told him that he's probably not gonna get very far if he's going around telling people in the industry that he's doing that and that I didn't really want to hear about it.

I definitely wasn't gonna fire him straight up because of that.

What did it for me was that after telling him that he comes back to me a few days later and said "hey I found out about "so and so" (the associate of mine) from one of your websites so I went and downloaded all his courses from this piracy forum! - they're great!

It pi$$ed me off! So I canned him straight up.

So I guess really it was more about his attitude towards the whole thing and the fact that a worker of mine would tell me that he's out ripping off associates of mine that caused me to can him.

But that's what got me thinking about the whole thing in general and got me to start this thread.

I agree its a moral code. I would never do this myself however I can see where people are comng from. I think that proper research is the backbone of all purchases. Its hard to that sometimes and people resort to "theiving" the product. I would like to think that all people end up buying software they like.

Exactly where the 7th commandment puts it.

Otherwise we have the savage mentality: If neighbor steal me cow, oh bad ! When me steal neighbor cow, o good !

Well - I know the answer is not in the SOPA...

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions...

Oh and just to be clear - I never said "Photoshop"

well, i try to do things the right way. i have several thousands of dollars of software on my cpu.

however, i am very aware that it is very likely many people i have hired in my 15 years of online business did not possess all the licenses to all of the software they used to complete projects for me.

personally, i think it is a little of the scope of my responsibility to "police" others to make sure they are using legit software and such. it is just not possible, much less practical.

now do i knowingly hire dishonest people or people who i know get software for free, hell no. if people are dishonest, it is just a matter of time before they screw me somehow.

but the reality is that if you have hired very many workers on freelance sites, it is almost guaranteed that you have hired people who used a program like photoshop, dreeamweaver, camtasia, or many others without the proper licenses.

i guess i would have to agree that things are just not black and white. i try to do whats right, but its a little unreasonable for me to take on responsibility of what is on someone elses cpu and how it got there.