Clickbank dead. ! Wondered why you are not doing well with CB?

76 replies
Actually ive been wondering though it doesnt really affect me much because i nv really promote clickbank.

BUT i just tot of asking.

There are people who buys clickbank stuff using their own affiliate link.

So wouldnt this affect affiliate marketing?

The product owner will still earn his share, but the affiliate part is gone.

Whats ur take on this...

Summary for the sake of new comers. :
1. we are talking about clickbank IM niche.
2. It is about affiliates not vendors.
#clickbank #dead
  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

    There are people who buys clickbank stuff using their own affiliate link.
    There are. It's permitted.

    Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

    So wouldnt this affect affiliate marketing?
    Only for the "internet marketing" products. There's not much point in promoting those as an affiliate, obviously: as you say, people will buy them through their own affiliate links. Generating the customer is one thing: being paid a commission on the resulting sale is another matter altogether.

    That's why so many of those products have such high gravity figures, too: every person who buys one through their own affiliate link is adding "1" onto the gravity score. Those high gravities don't mean that the product's selling to anyone else. They don't even mean that anyone's promoting the product.

    But that's only the "internet marketing niche". Fortunately there are about 500 other niches where none of that's relevant at all.

    In other words, what you're saying is perfectly true, but it's only true of one market.

    It's not relevant to the other 99% of us.

    I may have the numbers wrong: sue me. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


      Only for the "internet marketing" products.

      Agreed.

      Make sense.

      but why are so many people still promoting IM niche clickbank stuff.?
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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        Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

        but why are so many people still promoting IM niche clickbank stuff.?
        Good question. They're not, really, perhaps? The ones you see here, yes: because it's an internet marketing forum and they sell WSO's and build lists in that "niche" anyway, so we're looking at a "skewed representation". To some extent?

        And in some cases, I can only imagine that they're people who "haven't quite worked it out"?
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        • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Good question. They're not, really, perhaps? The ones you see here, yes: because it's an internet marketing forum and they sell WSO's and build lists in that "niche" anyway, so we're looking at a "skewed representation". To some extent?

          And in some cases, I can only imagine that they're people who "haven't quite worked it out"?
          but does this affect WSOs?

          like people who has a WSO pro affilite accuont, do they buy under their own link? lol..
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      • Profile picture of the author WillR
        Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

        Agreed.

        Make sense.

        but why are so many people still promoting IM niche clickbank stuff.?
        I'll give you a little hint. People don't promote stuff that makes them no money for very long. Have a think about it... they're not doing it because they are losing money. Some will test things, lose money, and move on. But those you see promoting the same product weeks later are generally making money from it.

        THAT is why they promote them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          I'll give you a little hint. People don't promote stuff that makes them no money for very long. Have a think about it... they're not doing it because they are losing money. Some will test things, lose money, and move on. But those you see promoting the same product weeks later are generally making money from it.

          THAT is why they promote them.
          Yup i thought of that concept before.

          But the thing is that i see sites [like review sites] that are still going on for very long, and what im thinking is that promoting IM stuff especially with clickbank isnt working because people use their own Affiliate links to buy.

          So this 2 points dont link.
          They are still sites promoting CB stuff for quite some time, and it shouldnt be because of my point, so where is the link.?

          hahaha So i can only guess that in this case what alexa smith say makes sense. Those people are not quite there yet. They are still trying and tweaking etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          People don't promote stuff that makes them no money for very long.
          They don't, but these very high gravity products in that niche have a huge turnover of affiliates.

          Many try to promote them, struggle to make a sale, and eventually drop out. Meanwhile, the sale(s) they do eventually make keeps the product's gravity climbing.

          More and more inexperienced affiliates, wrongly imaginging that a product with a rising gravity "must be selling well" decide to promote it, and do the same thing.

          It's self-perpetuating.

          It doesn't mean that any affiliates are earning anything at all out of those products.

          And often they're not.

          Originally Posted by WillR View Post

          But those you see promoting the same product weeks later are generally making money from it.
          Well, "months later", anyway. Many new affiliates will struggle for "weeks" with a product.

          But you can't see this from the gravity figure, anyway, of course. All you see is a "high and rising number". To people who don't understand how gravity works, that means "affiliates are doing well" (that's not necessarily true at all, obviously!). In other words, the constant turnover of affiliates is concealed by the figures.
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          • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            They don't, but these very high gravity products in that niche have a huge turnover of affiliates.

            Many try to promote them, struggle to make a sale, and eventually drop out. Meanwhile, the sale(s) they do eventually make keeps the product's gravity climbing.

            More and more inexperienced affiliates, wrongly imaginging that a product with a rising gravity "must be selling well" decide to promote it, and do the same thing.

            It's self-perpetuating.

            It doesn't mean that any affiliates are earning anything at all out of those products.

            And often they're not.



            Well, "months later", anyway. Many new affiliates will struggle for "weeks" with a product.

            But you can't see this from the gravity figure, anyway, of course. All you see is a "high and rising number". To people who don't understand how gravity works, that means "affiliates are doing well" (that's not necessarily true at all, obviously!). In other words, the constant turnover of affiliates is concealed by the figures.

            yes exactly.

            i would say the fault is in clickbank gurus itself.

            because in their course they always teach people to see gravity.

            i use to blindly follow but slowly i knew how it works and that it doesnt necessarily mean high gravity is good.
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
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        Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

        Agreed.

        Make sense.

        but why are so many people still promoting IM niche clickbank stuff.?

        Most likely because your thesis is incorrect.
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        • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
          Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

          Most likely because your thesis is incorrect.

          lol

          hi there

          but can u give ur opinion and reason.

          because the majority seem to think the same, [that IM niche is more or less dead or should i say not very easy to do] because people in the IM niche are aware with affiliate links and thus they will sooner or later buy tru their own links which will result in the affiliate commission being lost.

          im not saying i am correct.

          but if u would like to beg to differ u may. =) haha
          but pls also justify ur stand..

          cheers!
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    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      It's permitted.
      So is licking a dogs bum.

      Doesnt mean you should do it though.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lee Murray
        Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

        So is licking a dogs bum.

        Doesnt mean you should do it though.
        Yeah, unless it's a dare.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

        Doesnt mean you should do it though.
        I don't hesitate to, Johnny, if I'm buying a product to assess it with a view to possibly promoting it as an affiliate, and the vendor won't give me a free copy (but in those rare cases I never ask for a refund, however bad the product is, because even if it turns out that I don't want to promote it, it did fulfil the purpose for which I bought it, i.e. "reviewing/assessing it" - besides which, I imagine ClickBank understandably might not take too kindly to people habitually buying things through their own affiliate links and then asking for refunds!! :p ).

        But I'm perfectly entitled to buy products, under those circumstances, through my own affiliate link, and vendors who don't like that (though it's hard to see why, when they're still getting "their share" anyway) should sell their products elsewhere. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I don't hesitate to, Johnny, if I'm buying a product to assess it with a view to possibly promoting it as an affiliate, and the vendor won't give me a free copy (but in those rare cases I never ask for a refund, however bad the product is, because even if it turns out that I don't want to promote it, it did fulfil the purpose for which I bought it, i.e. "reviewing/assessing it" - besides which, I imagine ClickBank understandably might not take too kindly to people habitually buying things through their own affiliate links and then asking for refunds!! :p ).

          But I'm perfectly entitled to buy products, under those circumstances, through my own affiliate link, and vendors who don't like that (though it's hard to see why, when they're still getting "their share" anyway) should sell their products elsewhere. :p
          And I agree Alexa, but you probably make up the 2% of people that do the right thing, as opposed to the other 98% that just "game the system"
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          • Profile picture of the author J Bold
            Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

            And I agree Alexa, but you probably make up the 2% of people that do the right thing, as opposed to the other 98% that just "game the system"
            But in the end, if you don't like it as a vendor, what can you do about it? Not much, right? It's allowed on Clickbank and you don't control their rules.

            So, the only option is to forget about it or to move your product to another marketplace.

            Just my opinion...
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            • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
              Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

              ...or to move your product to another marketplace.
              Exactly. .......
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        • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I don't hesitate to, Johnny, if I'm buying a product to assess it with a view to possibly promoting it as an affiliate, and the vendor won't give me a free copy (but in those rare cases I never ask for a refund ...
          I have occasionally asked for a review copy myself. Sometimes those requests were granted, sometimes refused. In the case where they were refused, I have considered buying for the purpose of reviewing the products but have usually decided against.

          It seems to me that if an affiliate can demonstrate the ability to bring a significant amount of targeted traffic to an offer, a vendor should be glad of the proposal. I want to work with people who have a win-win attitude and I simply cannot think of a valid reason why someone I approach would not want to have me as an affiliate.

          Anyone who might think I just wanted a product for free does not understand me or my motives. But more to the point, they also do not (imho) have the abundance mentality of the partners I am seeking to work with.

          Will
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  • Profile picture of the author MariusPrice
    Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

    Actually ive been wondering though it doesnt really affect me much because i nv really promote clickbank.

    BUT i just tot of asking.

    There are people who buys clickbank stuff using their own affiliate link.

    So wouldnt this affect affiliate marketing?

    The product owner will still earn his share, but the affiliate part is gone.

    Whats ur take on this...
    Clickbank will be dead soon if they will still allow crap products out there and also buyers request refunds for almost any product. I will never sell anything on clickbank, i will get also a bad reputation. My two cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
      Originally Posted by MariusPrice View Post

      Clickbank will be dead soon if they will still allow crap products out there and also buyers request refunds for almost any product. I will never sell anything on clickbank, i will get also a bad reputation. My two cents.
      Hey now! Clickbank allowing refunds for any product is a GOOD thing. I won't buy a product without a refund guarantee. 9 times out of 10 I never need to use it. But if a product is truly garbage, then I won't keep it and will want my money back. Any company that sells a product and doesn't offer a refund is one I won't do business with.

      If you're product is good, you've got nothing to worry about. You probably will still get a few refunds (you cannot please everyone), but that is part of selling a product.
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      • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
        Originally Posted by cypherslock View Post

        Hey now! Clickbank allowing refunds for any product is a GOOD thing. I won't buy a product without a refund guarantee. 9 times out of 10 I never need to use it. But if a product is truly garbage, then I won't keep it and will want my money back. Any company that sells a product and doesn't offer a refund is one I won't do business with.

        If you're product is good, you've got nothing to worry about. You probably will still get a few refunds (you cannot please everyone), but that is part of selling a product.
        okay that is for his post..

        but any input on my OP?
        hahaha

        would love to hear your opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author JCorp
    Believe it or not, it's still very profitable for some people...
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    • Profile picture of the author MariusPrice
      Originally Posted by JCorp View Post

      Believe it or not, it's still very profitable for some people...
      Yes for some who provide a real product or services but how we know i think 90% from CB is just crap
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MariusPrice View Post

        i think 90% from CB is just crap
        Really? You've looked at 13,500 of the 15,000 currently active products, then, to draw this conclusion?! :p

        Call me a skepchick, but when I see people saying that, I always wonder if perhaps they're thinking of just the "make money online" and "internet marketing" niches, and are ignoring about 499 other niches in which ClickBank has available so many thousands of other products from which so many of us make our livings? :confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author Lee Murray
    Straight promotion of IM products is a tricky beast. If you're really committed to the niche, however, I suppose you could get around your fellow marketers buying through their own affiliate links if you get involved with product launches and offer some "too good to be true" bonus incentives.

    People are still making a killing doing this. The secret is, you've got to sweeten the pot so much that your prospect believes your bonus offers to be MORE VALUABLE than the 50% they could save by going through their own link.

    Some savvy marketers will bribe their leads with services like backlinking and custom content... and still others will actually ship them a physical product like an iPod or something, provided the prospect doesn't refund within the 60-day grace period.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Never bought through my own affiliate link. I always forget. And honestly, I have no trouble paying the vendor or an affiliate that I TRUST. So it's never really occurred to me.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      Clickbank products can be extremely lucrative, especially in the non-IM niches. And it is actually quite rare for the average consumer to even have their own affiliate link. In addition, the unconditional 60-day money back guarantee is a powerful sales inducement, particularly when coupled with other incentives.
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  • Profile picture of the author damasgate
    It would be interesting to have a discussion on just how to promote products in general to other IM people. The WSOs seem to be doing a great job but usually it's their own product. I could see myself taking affili links off of a product if I'm in a bad mood lol
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  • Profile picture of the author lkpub
    I never had much success with Clickbank... too many people online are aware of the fact that if they use their own affiliate link they can get the referral... not just IMers either... I pretty much stopped promoting them... found other more profitable ways with better conversions...

    Just my thoughts
    Linda =}
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by lkpub View Post

      too many people online are aware of the fact that if they use their own affiliate link they can get the referral... not just IMers either...

      Even if they are using their own affiliate link, the vendor is still making money, and the buyer is not stealing it for free online!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by lkpub View Post

      I never had much success with Clickbank... too many people online are aware of the fact that if they use their own affiliate link they can get the referral... not just IMers either...
      May I ask how you know for a fact, specifically in niches outside IM, how your failure to get any success with CB was due to your potential customers signing up to become affiliates and costing you the sale?

      Just asking because I do have success, outside IM and I've never had that problem.

      Or were you just promoting IM products?...In which case, you gave up after just the IM niche or, way, way, too early. I'm very pleased for you though, that you've found other, more profitable ways, with better conversions.

      Originally Posted by MariusPrice View Post

      Yes for some who provide a real product or services but how we know i think 90% from CB is just crap
      I'm afraid you need to look much harder....and sort those stats out too.
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      • Profile picture of the author JeromyS
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        I don't hesitate to, Johnny, if I'm buying a product to assess it with a view to possibly promoting it as an affiliate, and the vendor won't give me a free copy (but in those rare cases I never ask for a refund, however bad the product is, because even if it turns out that I don't want to promote it, it did fulfil the purpose for which I bought it, i.e. "reviewing/assessing it" - besides which, I imagine ClickBank understandably might not take too kindly to people habitually buying things through their own affiliate links and then asking for refunds!! :p ).

        But I'm perfectly entitled to buy products, under those circumstances, through my own affiliate link, and vendors who don't like that (though it's hard to see why, when they're still getting "their share" anyway) should sell their products elsewhere. :p
        Agreed! Why not? It is allowed. If ur account hasn't been cleared you don't get the money back, so you do need to be an active affiliate for this to work anyway.

        I have promoted cb and done fine. I make an effort to review products/services. Some garbage on there, true. but not fair to the many honest vendors to paint them all the same. There are many good products/services on cb.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
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      Originally Posted by lkpub View Post

      too many people online are aware of the fact that if they use their own affiliate link they can get the referral... not just IMers either...
      This isn't quite so, Linda. This is exactly why ClickBank's "Customer Distribution Requirement" exists, to protect affiliates' commissions against that possibility, and effectively to prevent others from doing that. The whole system wouldn't work without that built-in protection.

      It is only IMers who can do this and be paid the commissions themselves.

      This is the point, and the reason that problem applies only to the "MMO"/"IM" niches.
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by lkpub View Post

      I never had much success with Clickbank... too many people online are aware of the fact that if they use their own affiliate link they can get the referral... not just IMers either... I pretty much stopped promoting them... found other more profitable ways with better conversions...

      Just my thoughts
      Linda =}
      I dont think so, at all.

      In fact, i think the majority of customers who buy don't even know what an "affiliate link" is.

      Do you think that Becky, Jenny, Joe and Jack who purchase an acne remedy, yeast infection cure, treatment for hairloss, registry cleaner or dog training book have a clue what an "affiliate link" is? Hardly...
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      • Profile picture of the author JeromyS
        Originally Posted by GeorgR. View Post

        I dont think so, at all.

        In fact, i think the majority of customers who buy don't even know what an "affiliate link" is.

        Do you think that Becky, Jenny, Joe and Jack who purchase an acne remedy, yeast infection cure, treatment for hairloss, registry cleaner or dog training book have a clue what an "affiliate link" is? Hardly...
        Agreed. Perhaps what is happening with the 'bad rap' is that so many newbie affiliates start on CB. I don't know what the success rate is for newbie affiliates, but I would guess it would be low (under 10% likely). So, maybe a lot of people blame their lack of success on ClickBank???? Depending on what you are trying to sell, there is a tonne of money to be made on CB still, IMHO
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  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    it's really only in the internet marketing niche, which servers the product owner greatly because it will skyrocket the gravity, but can also be easily combated by the affiliate by offering a good bonus if purchased through their link.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    clickbank dead.

    NOPE wtf..... no way.

    I Make my living on clickbank, and no...its not in the boring IM niche.

    I am in several other niches that are totally different.

    The reason people fail with clickbank is so many reasons.....

    1) No good offer

    2) crappy copy

    3) do not build lists

    4) do not build relations with their list

    5) Do do offer value

    should I go on.

    For the right person, who tests and drives targeted traffic to their offeres or affiliate offers the opportunities are endless.

    Seriously the more 'idiotic' threads I see like this, the more I know clickbank will be around for many years and be the leader.
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
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    Clickbank is whatever you make of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Black
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    • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
      Originally Posted by James Black View Post

      Customers in certain niches don't know what affiliate links are, but many in this day and age do, especially younger people.
      Well, the point was that someone claimed it's not good selling on CB because "many are buying through their own affiliate link" <-- making it sound as if the vast majority of people on this planet are signed up with clickbank
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      • Profile picture of the author bretski
        Honestly, if you can pick a good niche and a good product with a good sales page that is not leaky, you stand a good chance of making some money. Of course, knowing how to sell/pre-sell helps.

        Keep an eye out for sketchy vendors though. I presently have a ticket open with CB concerning some click fraud... and yeah, I do have video proof.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jim Howard
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    Why would that make the whole industry dead? not even 1% of all customers would be doing this and who cares if they are? The vendor is still making money lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by Jim Howard View Post

      Why would that make the whole industry dead? not even 1% of all customers would be doing this and who cares if they are? The vendor is still making money lol.
      yes yes..

      pls again read and follow the entire thread.

      =)

      we are talking about clickbank, IM niche, affiliates.

      cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author Ruehl
    Hmmm..... I've never ever heard of ClickBank (just shows how much of a newbie I am LOL). Guess it's too late for me to test it out then if it's dead!
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by Ruehl View Post

      Hmmm..... I've never ever heard of ClickBank (just shows how much of a newbie I am LOL). Guess it's too late for me to test it out then if it's dead!
      oh no, that is not what i meant.

      this is meant more for a discussion and by no means am i saying its factually dead.

      i dont want to be sued by clickbank.. lol..
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Price
    Clickbank is FAR from dead

    Buying through own affiliate links has been around for years... it hasn't affected my earnings much nor any successful affiliates I know.
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  • Profile picture of the author jeresteem99
    I'm planning to have a Clickbank product. Now, Im thinking to make a deep research of success and failure of Clickbank product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Christian542
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by JCorp View Post

      Believe it or not, it's still very profitable for some people...
      Originally Posted by Christian542 View Post

      Believe it or not, it's still very profitable for some people...[img]http://www.*****************/jh2.jpg[/img]
      [img]http://www.*****************/2.jpg[/img]
      [img]http://www.***************/4.jpg[/img]

      hmmm looks like christian's bot gave him away.

      what shall we do ... =P

      a note for christian "STOP SPAMMING!"

      wow i just noticed all his posts are spams.
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

        hmmm looks like christian's bot gave him away.

        what shall we do ... =P

        a note for christian "STOP SPAMMING!"

        wow i just noticed all his posts are spams.
        It's a cookie stuffer and a really, really bad one that can't hide them.

        You need to report these people immediately, NOT quote them and give them even more publicity.
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        • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          NOT quote them and give them even more publicity.
          nah, its okay.
          i tot someone else will do that.

          i may do it later. if im in a bad mood. hahaha

          because he is not advertising anything, so giving him ?publicity doesnt do him any good. in fact this is to let people know about him to give him a bad name..

          unless he advertise something on his sig or something like that then we want to stop him asap.

          hahaha
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
            Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

            nah, its okay.
            i tot someone else will do that.

            i may do it later. if im in a bad mood. hahaha

            because he is not advertising anything, so giving him ?publicity doesnt do him any good. in fact this is to let people know about him to give him a bad name..

            unless he advertise something on his sig or something like that then we want to stop him asap.

            hahaha
            What?

            You need to read more, what he is doing is so against the rules you wouldn't believe it.

            Oh well at least the mods will know you only try and keep this place good when you feel like it.

            Seriously, you have no idea what cookie stuffing is do you? The person doesn't give a s*** about a bad name and they'll get banned as soon as a mod see's them, so no, you're not doing anyone any favours and the fact you won't even report him shows you don't give a toss about the forum either.

            Well done. :rolleyes:

            See this thread then you'll realise how silly you now look.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Wilson
    Is it just me or CB convert reaaaaaaaaally bad these days. I get a sale per 30 people who actually click the buy button.

    About a year ago I did a sale per 10.
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by Daniel Wilson View Post

      Is it just me or CB convert reaaaaaaaaally bad these days. I get a sale per 30 people who actually click the buy button.

      About a year ago I did a sale per 10.
      its not really you.. generally that is the case..
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      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
        Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

        its not really you.. generally that is the case..
        I sell CB products and have done for a while, I never sell IM stuff but products outside IM sell very well.

        The problem is lots of people are relying on the CB sales letters to convert and not bothering to pre sell, they're also not bothering to make a list so they only have the one chance to sell to them. Once they've left the page they're gone.

        So no, generally that isn't the case. Generally people who don't know how to sell CB products are converting badly, those with an idea of how to convert visitors to sales, are still doing rather nicely.

        Edit. Don't mean to say I told you so but Christian has been banned already.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          I sell CB products and have done for a while, I never sell IM stuff but products outside IM sell very well.
          Indeed. Quite so. Exactly.

          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          The problem is lots of people are relying on the CB sales letters to convert and not bothering to pre sell, they're also not bothering to make a list so they only have the one chance to sell to them. Once they've left the page they're gone.
          Well, nobody's selling many ClickBank products without building a list - whatever else they're doing. :rolleyes:

          Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

          Generally people who don't know how to sell CB products are converting badly, those with an idea of how to convert visitors to sales, are still doing rather nicely.
          Exactly so.

          Almost every single time there's one of those "Why Am I Not Making More ClickBank Sales?" threads whose originator actually shows their site and asks for suggestions/observations, it's obvious within 5 seconds of looking that they're either selling a product with a grotesque problem on the sales page, not themselves pre-selling adequately to targeted traffic, or not building a list and communicating effectively with their prospective customers.

          However you look at it, selling ClickBank products is really all about three main things ...

          (i) You have to select the products wisely: obviously enough, without getting this part right, it doesn't much matter what else you do!

          (ii) You have to pre-sell effectively to well-targeted traffic (so you have to at least one reliable way of attracting well-targeted traffic, and to understand clearly the difference between selling and pre-selling).

          (iii) You have to build lists yourself and form relationships with the people on them, so that they'll buy on the strength of your recommendation. Without doing this, your conversion-rate will typically be somewhere between "very low indeed" and "non-existent": ClickBank products are generally successfully sold only on "trust", i.e. how much your customers trust your recommendation. Your income will be directly proportional to the degree of trust you establish by list-building and list-communications: it's simple, but it isn't easy.

          These three things just aren't optional: you simply have to do all three of them adequately, to earn any money worth talking about from ClickBank products.
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          • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
            Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

            These three things just aren't optional: you simply have to do all three of them adequately, to earn any money worth talking about from ClickBank products.
            yea, i agree, that is the NOW situation.

            Back in 2008 it was optional. haha

            now its aint optional.

            so in a way its harder.

            =)
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            • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
              Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

              yea, i agree, that is the NOW situation.

              Back in 2008 it was optional. haha

              now its aint optional.

              so in a way its harder.

              =)
              I think the market changed and you failed to do so.

              2008 was nearly 4 years ago, it shouldn't take 4 years to figure out a new way of selling something.

              Besides, direct linking is exactly what I was going on about. You have just one chance to sell, you have to rely on someones else's often bad copy and you have no list, so no asset and therefore, no business.

              It is the difference between trying to make a quick buck and creating a long term business that serves you for years to come.
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              • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
                Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                I think the market changed and you failed to do so.

                2008 was nearly 4 years ago, it shouldn't take 4 years to figure out a new way of selling something.

                Besides, direct linking is exactly what I was going on about. You have just one chance to sell, you have to rely on someones else's often bad copy and you have no list, so no asset and therefore, no business.

                It is the difference between trying to make a quick buck and creating a long term business that serves you for years to come.

                wow.. hi richard.

                ive noticed u have been hot on my posts, replying and combating my every post.

                i really appreciate any of your good comments but i dont appreciate some of your side comments.

                just for record sake
                1stly regarding the spam guy- everyone is different, so for not reporting someone doesnt make me silly.

                2ndly - even if u feel like bringing it up to my attention u could pm me because this is not what the thread is regarding.

                3rdly - again different people do things differently, if i wish to do affiliate marketing without a website so be it. all im saying is that last time i dont have to pre sell i can just direct linnk. now i need to do all those to see some results which alexa pointed out too. so in a way its harder.
                and so i moved on to other things like markethealth where i still do direct linking and i still get results.
                with CB direct linking doesnt get any. that is the comparison.

                so i have a choice, to move on like what u say, move on with times and adapt or i can move to other places but still do my old methods and earn.

                so this is in no contacts to say i fail to move on with times. its just a matter of what i want to do as long as it brings in the dough.

                and you are just jumping to conclusions and defaming me.
                i did not say i took 4 years to find out, which caused u to say i failed to adapt.

                4th - as i said this thread's discussion is about clickbank, IM niche, affiliate link. its about people buying IM products tru their own affiliate links and whether this has caused IM niche to fair badly.
                other then that all other side topics and rabbit trail pls keep it short, u dont need to argue with every single rabbit trail. if anything u can use pm.
                u can see some thread where some people change topic and people reply to those side topics and in the end changed the discussion, spoiling the thread's OP. lets keep it to the main OP.

                5th - and of cos from now, i will not reply to any rabbit trail that is bashing. i will only reply to posts that are related to OP.
                and some small neutral, non-offensive, non-aggressive, not arguing rabbit trails.

                peace.
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                • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                  Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

                  wow.. hi richard.

                  ive noticed u have been hot on my posts, replying and combating my every post.
                  Not true at all chap. I was disagreeing with you, it happens on discussion forums, you shouldn't take things to heart. I'm very sorry I don't just agree with everything you say.

                  1stly regarding the spam guy- everyone is different, so for not reporting someone doesnt make me silly.
                  Of course not. My point was that it needs to be reported. Look at how you responded - "I'll report it later if I get annoyed", "HA HA HA" etc. I was just trying to show you that it is a bad thing but as I said, you don't have to report anything and that's fine.

                  2ndly - even if u feel like bringing it up to my attention u could pm me because this is not what the thread is regarding.
                  Except you quoted him and you diverted attention to him and I responded to what you wrote.

                  3rdly - again different people do things differently, if i wish to do affiliate marketing without a website so be it. all im saying is that last time i dont have to pre sell i can just direct linnk. now i need to do all those to see some results which alexa pointed out too. so in a way its harder.
                  and so i moved on to other things like markethealth where i still do direct linking and i still get results.
                  Fair enough but as you said, this is about Clickbank and you can't do that there. That was my point. I'm glad you've found alternatives though. I'm also deeply sorry for telling you what works for me.

                  so this is in no contacts to say i fail to move on with times. its just a matter of what i want to do as long as it brings in the dough.
                  Of course it is, fair enough, I apologise that I told you what works for me. I do hope it helps others but I'm very sorry you didn't like that. Again, I'm sorry I tried to help you by telling you what works for me.

                  and you are just jumping to conclusions and defaming me.
                  That's just nonsense. I was discussing a point with you. If you can't handle having a conversation with someone that is politely disagreeing with you, I think you need to get thicker skin.

                  4th - as i said this thread's discussion is about clickbank, IM niche, affiliate link. its about people buying IM products tru their own affiliate links and whether this has caused IM niche to fair badly.
                  Yes, I agree but I was just pointing out, as others seem to think the only niche in CB is IM, that there are other niches where this is far less likely to happen. Again, sorry for pointing that out.

                  other then that all other side topics and rabbit trail pls keep it short
                  There were no side topics and I've no idea what a rabbit trail is. :confused:

                  5th - and of cos from now, i will not reply to any rabbit trail that is bashing. i will only reply to posts that are related to OP.
                  and some small neutral, non-offensive, non-aggressive, not arguing rabbit trails.
                  Apart from laughing at my suggestion to report a cookie stuffer, this is the first time you've responded to me anyway. I also suggest you re-look at what I've written. There is no aggression and I certainly wasn't offensive and I still don't know what a rabbit trail is. Where did I "bash" you?

                  Either way I'll make sure I stay out of your way here, I certainly won't offer to help you in any way and if I ever see you write anything I disagree with I'll stay deathly quiet - after all this is a discussion forum and the last thing I should be doing is discussing things.

                  So, on that note let's just let bygones be bygones and we'll say no more on the matter. Very sorry you found my posts upsetting, that certainly wasn't my intention.

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                  • Profile picture of the author ash2611
                    Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                    Not true at all chap. I was disagreeing with you, it happens on discussion forums, you shouldn't take things to heart. I'm very sorry I don't just agree with everything you say.

                    Of course not. My point was that it needs to be reported. Look at how you responded - "I'll report it later if I get annoyed", "HA HA HA" etc. I was just trying to show you that it is a bad thing but as I said, you don't have to report anything and that's fine.

                    Except you quoted him and you diverted attention to him and I responded to what you wrote.

                    Fair enough but as you said, this is about Clickbank and you can't do that there. That was my point. I'm glad you've found alternatives though. I'm also deeply sorry for telling you what works for me.

                    Of course it is, fair enough, I apologise that I told you what works for me. I do hope it helps others but I'm very sorry you didn't like that. Again, I'm sorry I tried to help you by telling you what works for me.

                    That's just nonsense. I was discussing a point with you. If you can't handle having a conversation with someone that is politely disagreeing with you, I think you need to get thicker skin.

                    Yes, I agree but I was just pointing out, as others seem to think the only niche in CB is IM, that there are other niches where this is far less likely to happen. Again, sorry for pointing that out.

                    There were no side topics and I've no idea what a rabbit trail is. :confused:

                    Apart from laughing at my suggestion to report a cookie stuffer, this is the first time you've responded to me anyway. I also suggest you re-look at what I've written. There is no aggression and I certainly wasn't offensive and I still don't know what a rabbit trail is. Where did I "bash" you?

                    Either way I'll make sure I stay out of your way here, I certainly won't offer to help you in any way and if I ever see you write anything I disagree with I'll stay deathly quiet - after all this is a discussion forum and the last thing I should be doing is discussing things.

                    So, on that note let's just let bygones be bygones and we'll say no more on the matter. Very sorry you found my posts upsetting, that certainly wasn't my intention.

                    Hey newbieee, how are you!

                    Actually i would advice that you be more numb to this kind of things, after all you are in public. A thread is public and there are all kinds of people having all kinds of posts.
                    You cant beat them because mouths and hands are theirs, you can join them or you can ignore and learn to be numb.

                    Anyhow, the OP is more for a discussion not asking for help. Correct me if im wrong newbieee. You were not really asking for help right?
                    So richard, he wasnt asking for your help.
                    Its just a discussion.
                    He wasnt saying "pls help, im stuck, i think its because people are buying from their affiliate links"
                    Op wasnt stating it in this manner.

                    And lastly, sarcasm and apology and shaking hands dont go together.
                    :p

                    My 2 cents.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                      Originally Posted by ash2611 View Post

                      Hey newbieee, how are you!

                      Actually i would advice that you be more numb to this kind of things, after all you are in public. A thread is public and there are all kinds of people having all kinds of posts.
                      You cant beat them because mouths and hands are theirs, you can join them or you can ignore and learn to be numb.

                      Anyhow, the OP is more for a discussion not asking for help. Correct me if im wrong newbieee. You were not really asking for help right?
                      So richard, he wasnt asking for your help.
                      Its just a discussion.
                      He wasnt saying "pls help, im stuck, i think its because people are buying from their affiliate links"
                      Op wasnt stating it in this manner.

                      And lastly, sarcasm and apology and shaking hands dont go together.
                      :p

                      My 2 cents.
                      Thanks for your comment Ash but we're both gentlemen and we've already settled things via PM. We are friends now.

                      I'm afraid you're a bit late but it's nice you took the time to try and mediate.

                      Anyhow, lets try and get back on topic. :p
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                      • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
                        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

                        Thanks for your comment Ash but we're both gentlemen and we've already settled things via PM. We are friends now.

                        I'm afraid you're a bit late but it's nice you took the time to try and mediate.

                        Anyhow, lets try and get back on topic. :p
                        hey! lol..

                        when i was replying i did not see this post.. hahaha

                        looks like we were typing during the same time...
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                    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
                      Originally Posted by ash2611 View Post

                      Hey newbieee, how are you!

                      Actually i would advice that you be more numb to this kind of things, after all you are in public. A thread is public and there are all kinds of people having all kinds of posts.
                      You cant beat them because mouths and hands are theirs, you can join them or you can ignore and learn to be numb.

                      Anyhow, the OP is more for a discussion not asking for help. Correct me if im wrong newbieee. You were not really asking for help right?
                      So richard, he wasnt asking for your help.
                      Its just a discussion.
                      He wasnt saying "pls help, im stuck, i think its because people are buying from their affiliate links"
                      Op wasnt stating it in this manner.

                      And lastly, sarcasm and apology and shaking hands dont go together.
                      :p

                      My 2 cents.
                      hey ash!

                      i noticed u are following me too. hahaha

                      i wasnt asking for help yes.. but anyways its cool, no worries..

                      we have settled it tru pm. We are fine.. we are friends.. right richard? =)
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                      • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
                        Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

                        but anyways its cool, no worries..

                        we have settled it tru pm. We are fine.. we are friends.. right richard. =)
                        Correctamundo my friend .
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by Daniel Wilson View Post

      Is it just me or CB convert reaaaaaaaaally bad these days. I get a sale per 30 people who actually click the buy button.

      About a year ago I did a sale per 10.
      yes the market is changing slowly.

      back in 2008 when google adwords still allowed direct linking via affiliate links i used to do direct linking and could be profitable.

      now we have to link to our own page and pre-sell.

      so generally i would say that the market is harder to sell to now.. and the ever changing TOS and policies of networks are not helping either. hahaha

      take heart, u are not alone.

      but try to find other stuff than just CB.
      diversify and see what works better.

      i moved away from mainly CB.
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  • Profile picture of the author GetRichMatrix
    Is there a real difference to the affiliate when you buy it for yourself, with your own hoplink? No.

    I see it all the time with my own products on clickbank, someone sends me 1 or 2 visits with a sale right away. What a conversion, super, he should send me more traffic :-) No, it was that guy/girl buying it form him or herself. Fine by me you know, because quite often they then really start to promote it if and when they liked the product!
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  • Profile picture of the author SunnyDelight
    I always wondered about people buying stuff through their own affiliate link. Lol. Seems like a great way to get deals on things but not sure if i'd ever do it though
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  • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
    alright then.. lets continue and stick with the thread.


    so how, do u think IM niche in clickbank is somewhat dead to affiliates because of people purchasing tru their own affiliate links? - richard is this why u stay clear of IM niche?? what were ur reasons for not promoting IM niche if u have any in particular. =)
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    Alexa Smith

    thanks for the input on gravity which has always been somewhat of a mystery to me as it has been for a lot of affiliates. Now let's say that I"m a Clickbank vendor, wouldn't it be in the best interest to many of my affiliates if I explained how Gravity works since a lot of people are persuaded by that number? What's your take?

    Where can I get more info on how gravity works? Thanks in advance.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Christiani View Post

      Alexa Smith

      thanks for the input on gravity which has always been somewhat of a mystery to me as it has been for a lot of affiliates. Now let's say that I"m a Clickbank vendor, wouldn't it be in the best interest to many of my affiliates if I explained how Gravity works since a lot of people are persuaded by that number? What's your take?
      Most of your affiliates won't be too interested. Some of the ones who "ought" to be interested won't believe you about it anyway.

      These silly beliefs from the Urban Myth School of internet marketing are very prevalent and very pervasive indeed. People just don't want to be told that there's no correlation between gravity and numbers of sales. And they don't want to be told that there's no correlation between gravity and conversion-rates.

      Few will listen.

      If you have a "decently successful product" there, you'll already know that more than 90% of your affiliate-referred sales come from 10% of your affiliates. Those affiliates don't need to learn this, and the others won't listen anyway.

      I wouldn't bother. It's time that can better be spent in other ways.

      Sorry indeed if I sound "defeatist" about it; I think I'm actually just being "realistic".

      Originally Posted by Christiani View Post

      Where can I get more info on how gravity works? Thanks in advance.
      This post contains an explanation and some detailed "illustrative examples": http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post2495251

      And if you want a whole thread (only a short one!) to read, rather than an individual post, there's always this one: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...clickbank.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
        Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

        Most of your affiliates won't be too interested. Some of the ones who "ought" to be interested won't believe you about it anyway.

        These silly beliefs from the Urban Myth School of internet marketing are very prevalent and very pervasive indeed. People just don't want to be told that there's no correlation between gravity and numbers of sales. And they don't want to be told that there's no correlation between gravity and conversion-rates.

        Few will listen.

        If you have a "decently successful product" there, you'll already know that more than 90% of your affiliate-referred sales come from 10% of your affiliates. Those affiliates don't need to learn this, and the others won't listen anyway.

        I wouldn't bother. It's time that can better be spent in other ways.

        Sorry indeed if I sound "defeatist" about it; I think I'm actually just being "realistic".



        This post contains an explanation and some detailed "illustrative examples": http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post2495251

        And if you want a whole thread (only a short one!) to read, rather than an individual post, there's always this one: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...clickbank.html

        Thanks for the info Alexa. Hopefully I'll make a few more dollars before Clickbank stops breathing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
          Originally Posted by Christiani View Post

          Thanks for the info Alexa. Hopefully I'll make a few more dollars before Clickbank stops breathing.
          it wont stop breathing at least for the next decade. [after all nothing lasts forever] because as many people have said, there are many other niches that are doing well. only IM niche in CB is more screwed than the rest. hahaha IMO.
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          • Profile picture of the author Vikram73
            Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

            it wont stop breathing at least for the next decade. [after all nothing lasts forever] because as many people have said, there are many other niches that are doing well. only IM niche in CB is more screwed than the rest. hahaha IMO.
            Don't jump to conclusions like this. I stayed away from the IM niche for a long time on Clickbank but recently started promoting a CB IM product.

            I'm not building a list, its medium gravity (around 30ish).

            All I did is SEO the page, rank for my keyword and write a very long and in-depth review.

            $3-$400 a month. Only had 1 refund in 8 weeks.

            Would I be making more if I was catching leads and doing more pre sell thru that? Probably.

            If you are new you need to learn how to get traffic and pre sell in your reviews. Building a list is nice and will get you more money but you'd be surprised at how much money you can still make without one.

            Frankly I have some sites in weirdo niches that I'll never bother to build a list in. They just don't get my interest that much.

            ClickBank is great. I've had some really bad experiences with CPA networks. CB analytics tend to be unreliable but overall it's a good place to start.
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            • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
              For years I've been reading horror stories about how bad ClickBank is, how all affiliates are cheats for using their own links, how the cookies are not working, how sales have dropped to zero and how only idiots promote anything in the Internet marketing niche.

              A lot of it sounds genuine and clearly a lot of people feel they have real greivances.

              However, none of it is borne out by my own experience.

              I promote almost exclusively products in the Internet marketing niche and have never had any problems. My cookies are set, my sales are consistent, my refund levels are predictable and reasonable and as to people using their own links to buy and cutting me out - I can't know and don't really care.

              All I am concerned about is that my monthly income from ClickBank, although not the majority of my online income by any means, is consistently in four figures and tends to trend upwards.

              The reason, I believe, that my experience seems to differ from so many other people - and I'm not in any way saying that they are wrong - is that the quality of my traffic to ClickBank and the quality of the products I recommend to that traffic are both consistent.

              I will only recommend products that I have tried, tested and approve of, and I only, in general, promote such products to my own lists - never to random search engine generated traffic.

              If you promote bad products (of which I agree there are still too many on ClickBank, but not as many as on some of their competitors) to poor quality audiences, the results will be predictably dire. Garbage in, garbage out.

              Alexa talks a great deal of sense about how to make ClickBank work and how to interpret the figures properly. However, she and I differ in our opinions regarding the IM market. According to her business plan, marketing IM products on ClickBank is not effective. That's cool, but remember that she is talking about her business plan.

              According to my business plan it works just fine.

              How will it work according to your business plan? That's something you have to find out for yourself and not be swayed by anyone, including me or Alexa, who may be approaching online business completely differently to you.

              Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    And Clickbank is not quite dead... a friend of mine makes over 2 million in sales yearly there... and it's not in the IM niche.

    Best of luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author HonestAffiliate
    So far it looks like this in the discussion:

    - People are buying through their own affiliate links in the IM
    Niche, not in the other niches

    - Smart affiliates entice their subscribers/referalls to buy with
    through Bonuses that create equal or greater value than what
    would subscriber get back on commission.

    - Other smart affiliates shift their focus to non-IM Niche in CB or
    leave CB in favor of other retailer with better terms.

    Has anyone heard about statistics or estimate how much of
    affiliate sales is hijacked?

    For example, if affiliate runs promotion, and gets people click
    on his ad or email link, is there a way to find out how many
    people that clicked his link ordered through their own link later?

    I highly doubt that would be trackable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by HonestAffiliate View Post

      So far it looks like this in the discussion:

      - People are buying through their own affiliate links in the IM
      Niche, not in the other niches

      - Smart affiliates entice their subscribers/referalls to buy with
      through Bonuses that create equal or greater value than what
      would subscriber get back on commission.

      - Other smart affiliates shift their focus to non-IM Niche in CB or
      leave CB in favor of other retailer with better terms.

      Has anyone heard about statistics or estimate how much of
      affiliate sales is hijacked?

      For example, if affiliate runs promotion, and gets people click
      on his ad or email link, is there a way to find out how many
      people that clicked his link ordered through their own link later?

      I highly doubt that would be trackable.
      thanks for reading and knowing the discussion from head to toe.

      haha.. u got it right.

      i doubt there is a way to figure out how much has been hijacked.

      the latest clicked link will have the cookie overwriting the old one.
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