by JB
168 replies
You buy a product now the chances are it will be hours of webinar material with very little written content. Personally, I hate webinars unless they are technical walk through's of software or on screen presentations that couldn't be easily explained in writing. I used to be on a few lists for IM info but recently they just contain links to webinars, which seem to be the lazy approach to me. I'll probably get flack for saying that and I'm not trying to rub anyone up the wrong way but webinars seem like the easy way out. You waffle on front of a camera for a while and you don't have to spend the time creating a pdf which is easier to scrutinise. That's not always the case but personally I am starting to feel this more and more. A couple of reason while I don't like webinars include:

1) I spend time working on my IM business during my crappy day job so I have no soundcard. Otherwise I work on it when my wife is watching tv or when I'm in bed. I don't want to have to wear headphones just to get the info I want.

2) I much prefer to read at my own pace and know where to skip to from a introductory menu. Find a specific piece of information is a real pain in a 30 minute video.

3) Sometimes the person doing the webinar comes across badly (they may seem boring, over animated or just the type of person I wouldn't warm to) - even if the info is good this can ruin the product because you are forced to look at them to get the info.

4) And most importantly. I spend a great deal of time reading up and researching on my mobile device because it's just so handy and accessible and I travel around a lot. Pdf's are no problem, I can read them direct from my dropbox but webinars are a no go.

Am I the only one who thinks this way? Do they really convert more than regular text based sales?
#hate #webinars
  • Profile picture of the author nicelife
    I totally agree.

    I like to read at my own pace as well and I don't even like videos most of the time.
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  • Profile picture of the author RHert
    I don't mind webinars, but it is much harder to find the information in a webinar than a pdf and I also find that it takes more time. Most webinars spend the first twenty minutes with introductions and their stories (which will help sell but is useless for information purposes). The last twenty minutes is trying to sell their product, or upsell another product. I like PDF's. They get to the point and if you want to find a specific piece of information for review it's much easier. I think the wise people are the ones using PDF along with webinars.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by JB View Post

    Am I the only one who thinks this way?
    No ... not at all!

    Originally Posted by JB View Post

    Do they really convert more than regular text based sales?
    It's just "fashionable", I think. Marketers like them. Customers not so much.

    People do it because everyone else does it, and they all assume "it 'must' work or everyone wouldn't be doing it".

    Call me a skepchick but that's actually how most internet marketing decisions are made. :p
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    • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      People do it because everyone else does it, and they all assume "it 'must' work or everyone wouldn't be doing it".
      This rings true big time.

      Whatever happened to common sense? :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

        Whatever happened to common sense? :rolleyes:
        Its virtue, ironically and uniquely among virtues, is that almost nobody has any of it ...
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        • Profile picture of the author sal64
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Its virtue, ironically and uniquely among virtues, is that almost nobody has any of it ...
          That's coz every one is in love with common sense's cousin... dollars and cents.

          Anyways...

          Ideally you should have all forms of content to allow for people's preferences.

          Audio is still best in my books, followed by text. Video is you need visual explanation.

          Sal
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Ryan
        I agree for the most part. If they are going to do a video product they should also include all the same information in pdf format.

        Sure the videos might have some good material but you have to sit and go through it all to get to the meat and potatoes. And if you wanted to go back over a certain point you have to replay the video and try to figure out where they spoke on that particular topic.

        Overrated in my opinion. I like to be able to easily go back over the material, I don't want to have re-watch a bunch of videos to find the info I was looking for.
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    • Profile picture of the author WD Mino
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      It's just "fashionable", I think. Marketers like them. Customers not so much.

      People do it because everyone else does it, and they all assume "it 'must' work or everyone wouldn't be doing it".

      Call me a skepchick but that's actually how most internet marketing decisions are made. :p
      I respectfully must disagree Alexa, it is not fashionable, the conversion rate on a webinar is powerful.Granted this year has seen a sudden influx of webinars but they do work and work much better and much much faster than any other campaign you could do.

      cheers
      -WD
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
        Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

        I respectfully must disagree Alexa, it is not fashionable, the conversion rate on a webinar is powerful. Granted this year has seen a sudden influx of webinars but they do work and work much better and much much faster than any other campaign you could do.

        cheers
        -WD
        Quiet Will - lets not encourage more people to do them. Let them keep hating webinars and we can keep making a killing with them .
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      • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
        Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

        I respectfully must disagree Alexa, it is not fashionable, the conversion rate on a webinar is powerful.Granted this year has seen a sudden influx of webinars but they do work and work much better and much much faster than any other campaign you could do.

        cheers
        -WD
        Correct but now everyone and their brother is doing webinars and now we have fake webinars (pre-recorded), a lot of these are done by people who really have no clue.

        20 PowerPoint slides and mumbling through a 90 minute presentation is not a quality webinar IMO - which is probably why we're now seeing the "I hate webinars" rants.

        So... a well done webinar stills kicks butt and I do believe they convert well. The poorly done webinar is just painful to sit through. I can't do it. I rather watch paint dry.
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    • Profile picture of the author Henry White
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      ...

      People do it because everyone else does it, and they all assume "it 'must' work or everyone wouldn't be doing it".

      Call me a skepchick but that's actually how most internet marketing decisions are made. :p
      Following the followers? Maybe that's one of the key reasons so many fail. Clearly it's directly related to the shiny object syndrome!
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      • Profile picture of the author Tang
        This is a fascinating thread - I've bookmarked it!

        Fascinating because when you know what people who hate webinars hate about them -- you can make yours better!

        From what I've gathered, it seems the old adage is at play:

        • People love to buy, but hate to be sold to.

        I don't hate webinars. But I am annoyed by many of them for the following reasons...

        • Lack of preparation. Can you at least sound like you're not reading?
        • Lack of professionalism. Starting late 'to give people a little more time to get here' (because the people with schedules who are here on time don't matter at all)... Coughing in the microphone... talking with phlegm in your tonsils...
        • Lack of substance. Light 'tips,' instead of solid, actionable education...
        • Lack of respect for the audience's time. Long, extended pauses, meaningless banter.
        • False scarcity. Mind you, I have no problem with scarcity -- just false scarcity.
        • I could go on...
        To the folks who only seem to be able to tolerate webinars with no pitch at all I say --

        Relax?

        We're in business, aren't we, guys?

        If there are no sales to be transacted, why would one do a webinar at all? Just to be cool?

        Lots of cool (and broke) people in the world.

        Fact: If you're invited to a webinar, something's probably being sold -- can we get over it?

        The deal's not that bad: 'Hey -- I'll teach you some stuff that's going to genuinely help you... and if you're impressed with the little time we've had together, you'll probably love my full product/course/whatever.'

        Like mindykoch (above), I have attended quite a few webinars that made me grab a pen and take furious notes! It was great stuff!

        The point of failure is here: Many webinar givers aren't holding up their end of the deal.

        They skim...

        They stall...

        They sidestep...

        They laugh at their own jokes and just generally entertain each other... and show no respect for the audience sitting there waiting for them to deliver the goods.

        THEN they're like 'well wow Bob I'll tell you what, this was some truly SPECTACULAR information you shared with the audience today, thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to just share this mind blowing stuff... so you have something special for the audience today right?' (omggg here it comes...)

        PITCH PITCH PITCH PITCH... 'only a few more left!'

        Again, I would submit that few of us (even many of you complainers) really mind a pitch if you have indeed been blown away by what's been taught.

        When the information's great, the time flies by and the pitch is interesting, rather than annoying.

        Bottom Line: I don't believe all of you 'hate webinars.' I believe you hate bad webinars.
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  • Profile picture of the author Christophe Young
    I don't like them either. They are VERY fashionable right now!

    I must get like two or three emails a week from an IM'er with affiliate links to Webinars. Most are at least an hour in length and who has time to sit through one that long.

    Now I just delete those emails.
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  • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
    I hate anything that wastes me time... thus, I hate most "experts"
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    • Profile picture of the author paulius
      i also don't like webinars. with webinar automatically comes more BS, and even if you have recorded copy, and try to skip any part, you can't be sure that you don't skip info that you are looking for. becouse during webinar, person who doing webinar are more distracted, not always are straight to the point.
      i like only one type of video material. not longer then 10-15 min. straight to the point videos, which shows exact step, or manual how to use software, or something like that.

      Paulius
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    video products allow the seller or marketer more control over the way the sales process is handled.

    with video productions, the users dont get to skip over important emotional triggers that the sellers use to convince people to take action.

    its about control, thats why they convert better.

    the marketers have more control over the mind of the prospects/customers for those few minutes they are watching the video than they would if it was just a pdf.
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    • Profile picture of the author JB
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      video products allow the seller or marketer more control over the way the sales process is handled.

      with video productions, the users dont get to skip over important emotional triggers that the sellers use to convince people to take action.

      its about control, thats why they convert better.

      the marketers have more control over the mind of the prospects/customers for those few minutes they are watching the video than they would if it was just a pdf.
      Very true, that's another reason I don't like webinars. They invariably contain an upsell which you can't get away from. I hate being upsold too unless it really makes sense so I tend to skip this when I'm reading but might come back to see what it was about at a later date after I have processed the information that I wanted in the first place. The worst kind of webinars of all are those that don't have any controls (no pause, forward or reverse) - I saw one recently for a a really HUGE release by a well known marketer that had no controls at all on the squeeze page. So even if you are interested in the product and you go off to think about it, then come back to check up on something you have to look at the entire 5 minute pitch again (before you even got to a purchase link!). Needless to say I didn't buy it and it seems that the release has also flopped.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dailybread
    I agree completely. I read quickly and a webinar is generally, as has been said, 20 minutes of life story, 20 minutes of some info and 20 minutes of selling. The last webinar I attended was about 55 minutes of selling and 5 minutes of really basic info I already knew. Minute for minute, I much prefer to read a pdf. I thought I was the only one before reading this thread.
    I also object to video squeeze pages where it doesn't show how long the video is. These days I just skip the video completely. I have sat through some that go for 25 minutes and I am just like "Come on!".
    Did anybody else notice how well written and with correct grammar all these posts are? A pleasure to read. Well done everybody. And I love the name "Scepchick". Too clever!
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    • Profile picture of the author CherryPicked
      Originally Posted by Dailybread View Post

      I agree completely. I read quickly and a webinar is generally, as has been said, 20 minutes of life story, 20 minutes of some info and 20 minutes of selling. The last webinar I attended was about 55 minutes of selling and 5 minutes of really basic info I already knew. Minute for minute, I much prefer to read a pdf. I thought I was the only one before reading this thread.
      I also object to video squeeze pages where it doesn't show how long the video is. These days I just skip the video completely. I have sat through some that go for 25 minutes and I am just like "Come on!".
      Did anybody else notice how well written and with correct grammar all these posts are? A pleasure to read. Well done everybody. And I love the name "Scepchick". Too clever!
      I too hate videos and especially webinars. Some videos I will watch, depending on the person but others I will pass up entirely.

      I have to say, I've passed by your signature because sure, I'd LOVE an extra $100 a day, but it's video. Most of my IM 'education' is done on my tablet while I take my kid to the park or play with her outside. It will play some video, not others but I can't listen on headphones while making sure my kid doesn't take a nose dive off a slide or wander off!
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      • Profile picture of the author Dailybread
        Hey CherryPicked, Hahaha! Yes they are, but, they are how-to videos showing you specific tasks as you do them. Good catch but. It did make me laugh. :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author PsychoProfits
      Originally Posted by Dailybread View Post

      I agree completely. I read quickly and a webinar is generally, as has been said, 20 minutes of life story, 20 minutes of some info and 20 minutes of selling. The last webinar I attended was about 55 minutes of selling and 5 minutes of really basic info I already knew. Minute for minute, I much prefer to read a pdf. I thought I was the only one before reading this thread.
      I also object to video squeeze pages where it doesn't show how long the video is. These days I just skip the video completely. I have sat through some that go for 25 minutes and I am just like "Come on!".
      Did anybody else notice how well written and with correct grammar all these posts are? A pleasure to read. Well done everybody. And I love the name "Scepchick". Too clever!
      Took the words out of my mouth, I agree with every word
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      • Profile picture of the author aaronclancy
        I run some webinars, and I know some people who always turn up - and not only to mine but others too. They watch so many webinars they never have time to do the implementing.

        So watch them, learn, but TAKE ACTION!
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  • Profile picture of the author TravellingMissie
    I have to admit I have NEVER even listened to a webinar. I am not really a fan of videos and only watch them when I really need to, they come in handy when it shows you how to actually do something. Otherwise I prefer to read, go st my own pace and highlight the actions I must take.

    It definitely is a bandwagon that a lot of IM folk are jumping on. On the positive side for me, I have saved a lot of money as I very rarely buy info tat has a webinar or video!
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    I don't like webinars either. I don't mind them if it helps in training to show some people how to do something but I much prefer reading.

    And, if you have to go back and look for something, you have to go through all the videos to try and find what you are looking for.

    I can read a lot faster so I prefer things written.

    This is also why I don't like videos only on webpages or video sales pages.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Yeah, I do agree. Most are trying to sell me more products and services. Talk about a sales promo. Also they try to stuff junk to fill it out for me.

    Please site one instance that useful information was in a webinar - one. Mostly it is full of super spam junk content as in totally crappy.
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  • Profile picture of the author zamzung
    I agree with you too! I don't love videos and webinars are learning material... I'm finding myself to work the best with written content and I prefer to see an ebook or something like that when I buy a product... but it seems too many marketers these days use videos, because they believe people prefer them over text... maybe they do, but the question is how many those people is out there...
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  • Profile picture of the author Blindbiz
    I love most webinars, have learned more from webinars than most anything else.
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  • Profile picture of the author coconutcrawler
    I'd rather read it than hear it.

    Although some may contain valuable content for some, mostly newbies such as I. It does irritate me when you hear the info you liked in the 2nd 1/2 of the presentation & if you wanted it repeated, it would have to be replayed, FROM THE BEGINNING!
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  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    I'm not sure why those making webinars do not also have them transcribed.

    Possibly, it has been done and was not profitable. Though I tend to doubt it.

    Or perhaps an index to a pre-recorded webinar so you would know what to expect. That shouldn't be too difficult. In fact, it could be created by someone jotting down notes as it is first being recorded.

    At 5:12 see the secret to ....

    At 17.14 you'll be amazed at ...

    Overall, I agree with prior comments that many (not all) webinars are being used for lazy marketing.

    Sometimes a webinar is useful for showing something.

    But you see this all the time....

    ___ is a way to make money fast. So everyone does it without using their noodle. Webinars are that flavor of the month. And it hurts those who do quality webinars when less people will bother with them.

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
      I've never once attended a webinar. I have signed up for a few but they're often at times that don't really suit me in the UK. I'm not sure I'd have the patience to stick listening to one for 1+ hours anyway because I'm not a big fan of video or audio either.

      I sometimes download the recording after a webinar has taken place - I prefer those because at least you can fast forward to the interesting bits.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      I'm not sure why those making webinars do not also have them transcribed.

      Possibly, it has been done and was not profitable. Though I tend to doubt it.

      Or perhaps an index to a pre-recorded webinar so you would know what to expect. That shouldn't be too difficult. In fact, it could be created by someone jotting down notes as it is first being recorded.

      At 5:12 see the secret to ....

      At 17.14 you'll be amazed at ...

      Overall, I agree with prior comments that many (not all) webinars are being used for lazy marketing.

      Sometimes a webinar is useful for showing something.

      But you see this all the time....

      ___ is a way to make money fast. So everyone does it without using their noodle. Webinars are that flavor of the month. And it hurts those who do quality webinars when less people will bother with them.

      .
      most dont do this because it is not in the sellers best interest to do so. the webinar is about controlling the sales process.

      its about essentially forcing the user "read" the entire long sales letter.

      thats why the conversion rates for webinars are so high, they force people to listen to the whole sale pitch.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris1212
      I totally agree with you JB! I can't stand webinars unless, as you say, they are showing you how to do something on screen that can't be easily explained in print or still shots.

      What really burns me is the low quality webinars where you hear two guys talking (and you wonder if they're drunk) with lots of ums, uhs, and laughs (like some inside joke is going on between them).

      It's like they have NO respect for anyone else's TIME!

      Some of them sound like they have no agenda, no script, and no idea of any points they should be making for their audience. They're just BSing and we have to listen to them in hopes of learning something... not likely, though.

      I'm really glad you posted this and I HOPE some of these "lesser informed humans" who produce this crap will read this and change their approach.

      Sometimes all the new technology can be seriously abused. Sad.

      Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
    So...this is fascinating.

    How many of you have purchased things as a result of a webinar?

    Have any of you ever attended a webinar because maybe you got a chance to hear some one that you don't normally hear?

    Why do we Warriors say they convert so well if this survey of people is accurate...I wonder?

    I guess you could say that the people attracted to this topic would not be representative of the population of internet marketers. Thus, one can't necessarily draw conclusions from this thread where most hate them.

    Now my friend who is a prolific car salesman (his numbers are always conistently high) says that none of us like obnoxious sales people. But, he says, we all buy from them (I have--although I don't always) So the fact that we might HATE the medium and know we are going to get pitched at the end (after the set up of going through the problems we can all identify with), does NOT mean that we wont buy.

    CT
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    • Profile picture of the author CherryPicked
      Originally Posted by Charles Harper View Post

      So...this is fascinating.

      How many of you have purchased things as a result of a webinar?

      Have any of you ever attended a webinar because maybe you got a chance to hear some one that you don't normally hear?

      Why do we Warriors say they convert so well if this survey of people is accurate...I wonder?

      I guess you could say that the people attracted to this topic would not be representative of the population of internet marketers. Thus, one can't necessarily draw conclusions from this thread where most hate them.

      CT
      True! I clicked because I thought 'boy, I hate webinars too!' so I doubt we're representative of the market.

      Timing is everything though and webinars are not ever well timed for me. They are at dinner time or bed time for my child. They are when I might be having dinner with friends, or a cup of Starbucks when I do occasionally get to get out of the house.

      So, they are simply not my cup of tea.
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by Charles Harper View Post

      So...this is fascinating.

      How many of you have purchased things as a result of a webinar?

      Have any of you ever attended a webinar because maybe you got a chance to hear some one that you don't normally hear?

      Why do we Warriors say they convert so well if this survey of people is accurate...I wonder?

      I guess you could say that the people attracted to this topic would not be representative of the population of internet marketers. Thus, one can't necessarily draw conclusions from this thread where most hate them.

      CT
      i never said they didn't work. they work great (for the seller) which is exactly why i never watch them.

      anyone who attempts to force me into making an emotional decision has no chance at getting any money from me. i have realized over many years that sellers by in large do this to compensate for the lack of real content and information.

      these webinars are not how to use a product, or how to do skill. most of them are running the users through a series of very well documented emotional triggers to get people to take the desired action.

      they work very well. however, i would bet a good bit of money that if you polled people on this, you would find a direct correlation where people with more experience find them more annoying (from a users perspective).
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    • Profile picture of the author JB
      Originally Posted by Charles Harper View Post

      So...this is fascinating.

      How many of you have purchased things as a result of a webinar?

      Have any of you ever attended a webinar because maybe you got a chance to hear some one that you don't normally hear?

      Why do we Warriors say they convert so well if this survey of people is accurate...I wonder?

      I guess you could say that the people attracted to this topic would not be representative of the population of internet marketers. Thus, one can't necessarily draw conclusions from this thread where most hate them.
      This is a great post. The key point is that the feedback on this thread is most likely going to be from people who hate webinars because of the thread title (my bad I suppose!). That said, it would be interesting to see how many of us have purchased something as a result of a webinar. Personally, I have but it was for software so the webinar showed a functioning walk through with voice over - it explained and more importantly showed how easy it was to use. I have never purchased anything else from a webinar.
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  • Profile picture of the author oda
    My beef is that you find it hard to take in the information because you know the goofy sales pitch is coming at the end.

    The best webinar i ever did was one where we knew there was nothing for sale, it was just a quick 10 Minute presentation and an Hour of question and answer.

    To me if your setting a webinar, your trying to make money, NOT help ME.
    Its so bloody obvious its not funny.

    Now maybe that's because I spend so much time around IM products and people, But I guarantee you i am NOT coming to your webinar unless I know there is NO sales pitch.

    You and your webinars/salespitchenars Mate! (new word?)
    (Aussie's will get that)

    last word:
    Webinars should be educational and offer value, if you gove me good info in the webinar, don't try and put that false scarcity and hard sell on me, i will check out your product.

    There is Nothing wrong with telling people your product web address at the end of the webinar. If people feel like they got some value then they will buy your goods/service.

    Use your webinars to build the relationship , NOT your bank account!

    If you do a good job on the first bit, the second will flow on as a consequence.

    Thanks for listening with your eyes.

    Oda
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  • Profile picture of the author Lambert Klein
    I don't care for them either. Same with most videos. I really dislike the videos without controls.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sue Bruce
      I received a pre-recorded webinar last night from one of the "big guys". I usually minimize them and listen while I'm working.

      He said to try and arrange a webinar with an authority in your niche ASAP and keep contacting authorities using the top down approach until you find one who agrees because webinars have the highest conversion rate of any marketing method.

      I save important points in notepad and many times there are only a few that I add to my docs.

      However, info from a webinar has been very useful i.e. (Britany L's ) It's how I began online.

      You never know what you will find or where you'll find it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    I'll add my vote to I hate webinars.
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author sondrac
    Thought it was just me, not a fan of webinars either. I also like scrolling through the information to get past the hype.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chiayee
    Webinar is not my ky cup of thing, too.

    English is not my first language, so I have problem understanding some of them (due to the accent).
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    • Profile picture of the author Hesaidblissfully
      Seems like people are talking about 3 separate things in this thread:

      There are webinars, which are usually video presentations sold under the premise of teaching you something, but are usually a structured sales pitch for a product/service, although some are purely content with nothing for sale (at least not directly).

      Then video sales letters, which usually skip the pretense of teaching information and are just a sales presentation. These were cool before the novelty wore off, but now I'm significantly LESS likely to buy a product from a video sales letter than from a written sales letter. Why? Sales letters are scannable, so I can just skip ahead and find out what the offer is and if I want it. With video sales letters, I usually don't even bother watching them because I know I'll have to sit through a presentation just to find out what the offer even is. I realize that I am not everyone, but there ya go.

      Then video info products. These (hopefully) are actual content that teaches you how do something. I dislike video info products unless there's an actual REASON for the product to be in video, such as something that needs to be visually demonstrated. I'd much rather have a written manual or transcript, either as a main product or included with audio/video.

      The reason people buy information products is to get information from them, so whatever makes extracting information from the product the easiest for the user is best. Video/audio only isn't the most efficient way for most info products, so at least have a written manual or transcript available if you want to make more customers happy (Even more so when you have hours and hours worth of content).

      Of course, video/audio has a higher perceived value than just a pdf, and it's easier and quicker for most people to make a video than write a report or have it written, so people use video even when a written report would do the job. Which is fine, but at least have a transcript or manual to go with it.
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      • Profile picture of the author SpiralX
        Originally Posted by Hesaidblissfully View Post

        Seems like people are talking about 3 separate things in this thread:

        There are webinars, which are usually video presentations sold under the premise of teaching you something, but are usually a structured sales pitch for a product/service, although some are purely content with nothing for sale (at least not directly).

        Then video sales letters, which usually skip the pretense of teaching information and are just a sales presentation. These were cool before the novelty wore off, but now I'm significantly LESS likely to buy a product from a video sales letter than from a written sales letter. Why? Sales letters are scannable, so I can just skip ahead and find out what the offer is and if I want it. With video sales letters, I usually don't even bother watching them because I know I'll have to sit through a presentation just to find out what the offer even is. I realize that I am not everyone, but there ya go.

        Then video info products. These (hopefully) are actual content that teaches you how do something. I dislike video info products unless there's an actual REASON for the product to be in video, such as something that needs to be visually demonstrated. I'd much rather have a written manual or transcript, either as a main product or included with audio/video.

        The reason people buy information products is to get information from them, so whatever makes extracting information from the product the easiest for the user is best. Video/audio only isn't the most efficient way for most info products, so at least have a written manual or transcript available if you want to make more customers happy (Even more so when you have hours and hours worth of content).

        Of course, video/audio has a higher perceived value than just a pdf, and it's easier and quicker for most people to make a video than write a report or have it written, so people use video even when a written report would do the job. Which is fine, but at least have a transcript or manual to go with it.
        Agreed for the most part. Just one thing:

        Webinars aren't necessarily for sales pitches only. If you compare it to offline, you know those seminars they have for 'no money down' or money making info-seminars - you go to a free 2 hour seminar and then they pitch you for another hour or two - to go to their weekend course (paid seminar). Webinars also can fall into both categories. The free kind - which always comes with a pitch - or the paid kind, which is akin to an offline paid seminar, a teaching course.

        Some people appreciate that, so I think the webinar is a useful tool to deliver paid seminars online.

        I agree with so many people in this thread. Info products delivered by video with no accompanying pdf is pure laziness. I think the person got lost in the product creation, they just went and recorded an audio, maybe did a few slides to make it a 'video', and that's it. They may have some useful info in their verbal brain dump but until they can organize it into a written form, they're wasting my time.

        There are exceptions though. I have seen a few info products where the videos were little chunks of info. Neatly organized and to the point. 5 or 10 minutes max in a module, no filler. That I don't mind. It's the hour long rambling ones that really bother me and reflect poorly on the product creator, they just don't seem to care about quality or about their customer's satisfaction. Or perhaps they're just inept.

        We have opened a real can of worms here. Definitely I hate the trend to present info products on video, but there are exceptions to the rule. In general though, any good product creator should easily be able to take one product and present it in pdf, audio and video.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    I hate when a product only comes with video documentation. I simply don't have the patience and nerves to go/seek through videos when i want to know how to use a tool or software. A pdf usually is 1000x faster and more efficient.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    I personally also hate webinars. Many are creating them because they are following big marketers footsteps however I say that is completely wrong. I personally only released one product with video instead of an eBook, and it didn't go very well. People were complaining about the lack of PDF's so I've never done it again.

    I would not encourage anybody to create webinars for products unless you aim to create a package of webinars and eBooks for customers to choose from.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I can think of few things more boring than a webinar. If they can't type it up or hire someone to type it up so I can read the info in my leisure, I'm not interested. Good for you if they convert for you. Snoooze.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ettienne
    Haha, yeah the last webinar that claimed they have a "secret" to share and it would be for free (and give free stuff away, etc) eventually tried to sell a $997 product. That was the last time I wasted an hour on a webinar, never again. I also don't use it myself, it's simply not necessary.

    I'm sure it works sometimes, but it's just not for me and I'd never recommend it to any of my readers.
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  • Profile picture of the author mindykoch
    I only go to a few webinars. I read very, very quickly and absorb information quickly. Webinars usually go to slow to hold my attention and I find myself multi-tasking as I listen to them.

    Occasionally, I will attend a webinar that makes me grab a pen and paper and I need to jot every thing down quickly because it is drinking from the firehose. That is the kind of webinar that I love.
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  • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
    I hate webinars too, but that doesnt mean I dont want to single them out. I prefer testing and seeing for myself rather than just putting personal preference on something as important as my online business.
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  • Profile picture of the author BigNorm
    People who ramble in webinars annoy me. Get to the point, this is why I watched in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author kjmeylan
    I will have to say that I do not care much for webinars. If you have no thing that is different from what they show, then it throws the whole thing off. I need visual more than anything.
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    • Profile picture of the author sunnyimrs
      In webinars people all ways try to give out some good quality information and at the end they try to sell there own stuff to all the webinar participants.
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    • Profile picture of the author TravisVOX
      What are the thoughts about webinars in the non-IM niche?
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      • Profile picture of the author LeeLee
        Originally Posted by TravisVOX View Post

        What are the thoughts about webinars in the non-IM niche?
        I've never seen one now that you mention it.

        Add me to the group who don't mind a pitch since it is clear there will be a pitch. But at least give me value for my time.

        In 3 years I have probably watched 2 dozen webinars. Of those, 2 gave me good information. In fact, one gave me all the information except the "shovel".

        I have not been seeing an increase in webinars but it seems some in this thread have.

        What i have noticed is different IM "families" use them. For lack of a better word, guru 1 uses them and so do all his followers. They appear on each others webinars and hawk them to their lists.

        I can't think of a single instance where a lone marketer invited me to a webinar.
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        • Profile picture of the author SpiralX
          Originally Posted by LeeLee View Post

          I've never seen one now that you mention it.

          Add me to the group who don't mind a pitch since it is clear there will be a pitch. But at least give me value for my time.

          In 3 years I have probably watched 2 dozen webinars. Of those, 2 gave me good information. In fact, one gave me all the information except the "shovel".

          I have not been seeing an increase in webinars but it seems some in this thread have.

          What i have noticed is different IM "families" use them. For lack of a better word, guru 1 uses them and so do all his followers. They appear on each others webinars and hawk them to their lists.

          I can't think of a single instance where a lone marketer invited me to a webinar.
          Lol - then let me be the first. No j/k. I am using the webinar format but in a different niche than IM. I'm going with the paid model and may even be closing sales for the webinar without pitching by webinar. But really, free webinars are a great model for the prospect and the salesperson, if done well, so it's be crazy for me not to use it. The ideal free webinar: a lot of great content, the prospects learn info they can apply, and a pitch that is for a helpful product related to the free content.

          Free webinars, done well, are win-win. The prospect gains knowledge, and pays for it by being pitched at the end. The marketer gains a captive audience in exchange for the quality info they are willing to teach for free.

          But obviously, especially in the IM niche, free webinars tend to be abused.
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      • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
        Originally Posted by TravisVOX View Post

        What are the thoughts about webinars in the non-IM niche?
        My biggest clients do webinars in the real estate niche where the
        prerecorded ones have been the norm for YEARS!

        They work!

        Willie
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  • Profile picture of the author NinjaEntrepeneur
    Webinars convert really well, i would use it to make money from it, but i don't like to attend to webinars because they always end up offering me something to buy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
      I personally LOVE webinars.

      They are great for giving an interactive sales presentation.

      They are great for teaching a topic.

      They are great for just getting a message out.

      Many that I tune in to are too long, poorly structured,
      and too much backslapping.

      Webinars are gaining popularity simply because they
      work better than many alternatives.

      Especially when you get into higher priced products,
      you need greater interactivity. Webinars are the
      next best things to face-to-face presentations

      Willie
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    • Profile picture of the author toodise
      I am with you Ninja I hate sitting through a very informative webinar that I enjoyed and all the time knowing that I am going to asked to buy something 3 different ways... I hate when they reframe the way the are trying to sell you stuff.
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    • Profile picture of the author aaronchen1
      I'm actually surprised at how many people here dislike webinars. thats interesting considering that most people prefer watching some sort of video than reading. takes left effort and its passive.

      I'm alright with them if they are good. if they're crap, then i hate wasting 1-2 hours of my life

      but having said that, they do sell very well, so if u're a product seller where the price point is high (over $100), webinars are much more effective.
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  • Profile picture of the author Charles Harper
    Could it be that these people who come to webinars know what the product is going to be and are probably already half way down the road to the sale? Then maybe the webinar puts them over the top. I bought from a webinar the other night. But I was already pre-diposed to buy. All the webinar did was push it over the top. And maybe that is why they convert so well.

    This thread is absolutely fascinating to me, that so many Warriors don't like them.

    Perhaps we like doing them, not being on them.

    CT
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  • Profile picture of the author robnoble
    When webinars are good they are very very good but when they are bad they are horrid!

    I agree with Charles Harper, it's fascinating that so many IMers don't like webinars and yet they are touted everywhere you see and convert so well - intredasting!
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Barboza
    I attended a webinar once. It was organized by a friend and targeted to English teachers (I'm one) It was full of great advice on using technology in a ESL classroom. No sales pitch, of course, so I loved it. I wouldn't mind attending their webinars evey week if they did it more often.

    But internet marketing related webinars are just long sales pitches, even the most informational ones. I don't see the point in waiting for an hour listening to some "tips" and "useful" information that only lead to "buy my stuff and you'll make money".

    When I get emails invitation for webinars, and I may feel interested in the topic, I just wait for the sales email on next day. That way I could buy their product without wasting an hour of my life.
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    • Profile picture of the author NinjaEntrepeneur
      Originally Posted by Alex Barboza View Post

      I attended a webinar once. It was organized by a friend and targeted to English teachers (I'm one) It was full of great advice on using technology in a ESL classroom. No sales pitch, of course, so I loved it. I wouldn't mind attending their webinars evey week if they did it more often.

      But internet marketing related webinars are just long sales pitches, even the most informational ones. I don't see the point in waiting for an hour listening to some "tips" and "useful" information that only lead to "buy my stuff and you'll make money".

      When I get emails invitation for webinars, and I may feel interested in the topic, I just wait for the sales email on next day. That way I could buy their product without wasting an hour of my life.
      I totally agree!
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    • Profile picture of the author Henry White
      Originally Posted by Alex Barboza View Post

      I attended a webinar once. It was organized by a friend and targeted to English teachers (I'm one) It was full of great advice on using technology in a ESL classroom. No sales pitch, of course, so I loved it. I wouldn't mind attending their webinars evey week if they did it more often.

      But internet marketing related webinars are just long sales pitches, even the most informational ones. I don't see the point in waiting for an hour listening to some "tips" and "useful" information that only lead to "buy my stuff and you'll make money"...
      That has been my experience in corporate training as well.

      I think the difference that makes it significantly more fluid and successful for us, and, obviously for teachers, is that we have to be "in the spotlight and on stage" daily, as an integral part of the job. So, naturally, it's going to be more polished and professional than the ones trying to escape their day jobs, who probably haven't done anything remotely like public speaking or delivering a presentation since their last oral book report for English in high school.

      It's usually the featured guest who carries the bulk of the responsibility. The host can be on the brink of a nervous breakdown from anxiety and stage fright, and no one will even notice - provided the guest delivers.

      In time, though, I think we'll see tremendous improvement from marketers as they adapt to the technology and master the essential skills and production standards. Those who do will be richly rewarded; and those who don't will be abandoned in their wake.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim3
    The reason for webinars is obvious, someone can sit in front of a mic and talk for 90 minutes, without having to do any writing at all, it's more efficient.

    Having said that they are mostly just squeeze pages with sound, but at least they offer some value and are not 'blind'
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Baker
    I only love webinars to those guys who are very well-known or IM gurus
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    I tend to doze off and tune out most times.

    Webinars are used as a substitute for stage pitching, as you can reach a captive audience any time, any place. It also allows affiliates to help promote you via their list.

    Because you are speaking, you agin trust and rapport... or so it goes.

    The reality is that many webinar presenters are as boring as watching dog poo turn white - and some webinars go on for just as long.

    I remember when Alex MAndossian hit the market with his teleseminar secrets. Big before webinars.

    Bu thte difference was that Alez had personality, passion and knew how to talk. He was always interesting and provided real content.

    Nowadays it's boring boring boring.

    As far as productsgo, I have to admit that I'd mucg rather print off a pdf with screen caps.

    However, due to saturation and the availability of ebooks on amazon from $1 - videos now give a higher perception of value and help justify exhorbitant prices for what is basically a glorified audio book. This helps maintain margins for affiliates, and the circus goes on.

    Of all the 3 media, audio is still the best because you can listen in your down time. Vidoes require you to set time aside.

    Anyway, that's just my $4.61's worth.

    Sal
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  • Profile picture of the author matchoo77
    I won't watch them unless I think they have an entirely new concept that presents value...so I've watched about 2 webinars in the last 3 years.
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  • Profile picture of the author HairyPoppins
    Some of the things I hate are when the speaker has a thick accent, doesn't quite get to the point, and for some reason I can never quite get them loud enough to hear every word on just my stock laptop speakers.
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    • Profile picture of the author mog320
      Add me also to the "I hate webinars" and video sales letters list. They tend to be too time consuming. Sometimes I will have one playing while I am doing something around the house and not really be engaged. I would rather read and get to the point, especially if I don't know how long they are.

      Do people say webinars convert well because they have a higher conversion rate or because they produce a higher number of sales? It seems to me that you would be losing a lot of potential customers doing a webinar as opposed to a sales letter (if you are choosing one of the other, of course).

      A webinar with 1000 people on it may convert at 25% selling 250 but a sales letter read by 10,000 converting at 5% sells 500. Not sure about the conversion rates. Just giving an example here.

      I don't know so I am just wondering why they are so popular. More sales or higher conversion rate?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
    Originally Posted by WD Mino View Post

    I respectfully must disagree Alexa, it is not fashionable, the conversion rate on a webinar is powerful.Granted this year has seen a sudden influx of webinars but they do work and work much better and much much faster than any other campaign you could do.
    Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

    Quiet Will - lets not encourage more people to do them. Let them keep hating webinars and we can keep making a killing with them .
    The OP is talking about buying products that end up being webinars:

    Originally Posted by JB View Post

    You buy a product now the chances are it will be hours of webinar material with very little written content. Personally, I hate webinars unless they are technical walk through's of software or on screen presentations that couldn't be easily explained in writing.
    To the OP: the reason people do webinars is because it's quick and dirty product creation. People are able to get more products out into the marketplace in a shorter amount of time.
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    • Profile picture of the author SpiralX
      Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

      The OP is talking about buying products that end up being webinars:



      To the OP: the reason people do webinars is because it's quick and dirty product creation. People are able to get more products out into the marketplace in a shorter amount of time.
      Exactly. Well put - quick and dirty product creation.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrislangley
    This is the reason why being a salesman takes some skill especially in the real world
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
    Guess what...

    Most people don't like banners... they work.

    Most people don't like pop-up ads... they work.

    Most people don't like commercials on TV... they work.

    Most people don't like longer sales videos... they work.

    Most people don't like webinars... they work too.

    The reason you keep seeing all these things you "don't like" is because they work. Who cares what you "don't like"... you're a marketer, your obligation to your business is to do what works.

    Or don't, and let other people keep making the money... while you keep complaining about what you "don't like"... your call.

    -Gary
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Gary_The_Ace View Post

      Guess what...

      Most people don't like banners... they work.

      Most people don't like pop-up ads... they work.

      Most people don't like commercials on TV... they work.

      Most people don't like longer sales videos... they work.

      Most people don't like webinars... they work too.

      The reason you keep seeing all these things you "don't like" is because they work. Who cares what you "don't like"... you're a marketer, your obligation to your business is to do what works.

      Or don't, and let other people keep making the money... while you keep complaining about what you "don't like"... your call.

      -Gary
      Funny .... I don't use any of those and have made a full time living online for over 12 years. So glad you're giving us the option not to use them if we don't want to. Guess some of us are mopping up the floor, picking up all the customers who hate all that stuff.
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Funny .... I don't use any of those and have made a full time living online for over 12 years. So glad you're giving us the option not to use them if we don't want to. Guess some of us are mopping up the floor, picking up all the customers who hate all that stuff.
        I don't either, but Gary does make the point that your job is to do what's best for your business. And I agree with that. If banners work best, then use them. If you are good on webinars and can close, then you'd be crazy not to use them.

        What annoys me with this thread is that people just jump on board and follow the herd... yep me too. I hate webinars.

        Obviously there is a reason/s why.

        So instead of the me-too crowd, I wish posters would articulate why. That way there is a chance that we can all learn from it and those who do it, can improve them... leading to a better end viewer experience.

        So far, only a few have given valid reasons why.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

          So instead of the me-too crowd, I wish posters would articulate why. That way there is a chance that we can all learn from it and those who do it, can improve them... leading to a better end viewer experience.

          So far, only a few have given valid reasons why.
          It's simple.

          #1. Bandwidth. I'm connected to the Internet by my Droid. To view a Webinar, I have to get in my car, drive to the library or Starbucks and watch it. Yawn.

          #2. Time. I'm not interested in your hour or more pitch. I can scan a pdf for relevant facts in just minutes. Webinars are a waste of my time, and if your product is also in video format, see #1.

          A rather big name marketer that I have purchased from previously has a product out that I assume is interesting, however the only way I've found it presented is by video, so a product that actually interests me simply isn't worth getting in my car to view it at a WiFi location. Does he care? No. The big gurus have made it crystal clear that they do not care one iota about rural customers on slow connections.
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          • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            It's simple.

            #1. Bandwidth. I'm connected to the Internet by my Droid. To view a Webinar, I have to get in my car, drive to the library or Starbucks and watch it. Yawn.

            #2. Time. I'm not interested in your hour or more pitch. I can scan a pdf for relevant facts in just minutes. Webinars are a waste of my time, and if your product is also in video format, see #1.

            A rather big name marketer that I have purchased from previously has a product out that I assume is interesting, however the only way I've found it presented is by video, so a product that actually interests me simply isn't worth getting in my car to view it at a WiFi location. Does he care? No. The big gurus have made it crystal clear that they do not care one iota about rural customers on slow connections.
            You're making a few horrible assumptions here...

            #1. You're in the overwhelming minority of customers in this space, and many others... this isn't a decision based on exclusion, it's a decision based on doing what's best for the majority. ( making it a decision based on inclusion... more customers served, not less )

            #2. The fact that YOU personally aren't interested isn't relevant. One customer does not make a business, many customers do... and in nearly all the cases I've seen, offering a text alternative to a video has hurt conversions by a wide margin.

            As for your "the gurus" don't care line... it's not that whoever you're taking about doesn't care, it's that big businesses need big numbers of customers. I'm not sure who these "gurus" are that everyone keeps referring to, without ever naming anyone... but if you're referring to marketers with bigger businesses... again, this is a business decision.

            They're better off selling at 2% conversion than at 1.7% conversion. If you do that to 10,000 people... that's 200 customers, vs 170 customers.

            Sure, you may lose some potential customers by using video, but you're gaining MORE overall by using these videos... it's simple marketing, and simple math. In short, the customers you lose because they have a bad connection are more than made up for by the fact that you can bring in more overall customers by using video.

            -Gary

            P.S. And as marketers, you should ALL be testing anyway... these numbers come from the people I know, and from my own data. That said, if you're not testing video, testing pop-ups, testing banners, and other things you might "hate", don't get upset if another marketer comes into your niche and crushes your business.

            P.P.S. I'm not trying to single you out... I didn't realize I was quoting the same OP twice in a row until after I'd responded.
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            • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Gary_The_Ace View Post

              You're making a few horrible assumptions here...

              #1. You're in the overwhelming minority of customers in this space, and many others... this isn't a decision based on exclusion, it's a decision based on doing what's best for the majority. ( making it a decision based on inclusion... more customers served, not less )

              #2. The fact that YOU personally aren't interested isn't relevant. One customer does not make a business, many customers do... and in nearly all the cases I've seen, offering a text alternative to a video has hurt conversions by a wide margin.

              As for your "the gurus" don't care line... it's not that whoever you're taking about doesn't care, it's that big businesses need big numbers of customers. I'm not sure who these "gurus" are that everyone keeps referring to, without ever naming anyone... but if you're referring to marketers with bigger businesses... again, this is a business decision.

              They're better off selling at 2% conversion than at 1.7% conversion. If you do that to 10,000 people... that's 200 customers, vs 170 customers.

              Sure, you may lose some potential customers by using video, but you're gaining MORE overall by using these videos... it's simple marketing, and simple math. In short, the customers you lose because they have a bad connection are more than made up for by the fact that you can bring in more overall customers by using video.

              -Gary

              P.S. And as marketers, you should ALL be testing anyway... these numbers come from the people I know, and from my own data. That said, if you're not testing video, testing pop-ups, testing banners, and other things you might "hate", don't get upset if another marketer comes into your niche and crushes your business.

              P.P.S. I'm not trying to single you out... I didn't realize I was quoting the same OP twice in a row until after I'd responded.
              You're making an assumption that I give a rats ass about being in the minority of people who live in the country and aren't sought out by those webinar whizzes. I'm not offended because no amount of bandwidth could persuade me to watch people pitching products for hours. My time is more valuable than that to me.

              So it is entirely relevant TO ME that I don't like webinars. Might not be relevant to you that I and quite a few people in this thread don't like webinars, but honestly, I only care about how I feel about them ... not about how you or anyone else feels about them or about how they convert. So, I didn't miss your point about webinars making money. I simply don't care how much money you make. I'm happy with what I make and with HOW I make it. You can be in the group that wants to scrape every little penny by any means possible.

              My goals and needs are different. I don't waste time watching webinars and I don't use them and I don't care if I'm missing money.

              I've been very satisfied with what I do and how I do it for 12 years. You be the webinar fan boy. Wooo hooo ... Go Webinars. I'll be who I am.
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      • Profile picture of the author Gary_The_Ace
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Funny .... I don't use any of those and have made a full time living online for over 12 years. So glad you're giving us the option not to use them if we don't want to. Guess some of us are mopping up the floor, picking up all the customers who hate all that stuff.
        You entirely missed the point.

        Just imagine how much MORE you could be making it you got out of your own way, and started making a few of your decisions based on bringing in more customers, rather than avoiding pop-ups...

        The way I've always seen it is this...

        I provide great value, and if I'm not doing everything in my power to bring in the most customers I possibly can... I'm doing both myself, and my potential customers a disservice. I believe in my stuff that strongly... and I believe that if I let someone leave my page, without trying my best to teach them how I do things... then I must not feel that strongly that I'm the best option out there.

        If you don't believe in your stuff that strongly, and you're happy with a "full time" income (whatever that means), that's perfectly fine... but don't kid your self, you're not making anywhere near what you could be if you were marketing more aggressively.

        -Gary

        P.S. Aggressively does NOT mean being scammy... they're two entirely different things.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
      Originally Posted by Gary_The_Ace View Post

      Guess what...

      Most people don't like banners... they work.

      Most people don't like pop-up ads... they work.

      Most people don't like commercials on TV... they work.

      Most people don't like longer sales videos... they work.

      Most people don't like webinars... they work too.

      The reason you keep seeing all these things you "don't like" is because they work. Who cares what you "don't like"... you're a marketer, your obligation to your business is to do what works.

      Or don't, and let other people keep making the money... while you keep complaining about what you "don't like"... your call.

      -Gary
      ... not all banners work.

      ... not all pop-ups work.

      ... not all TV commercials work.

      ... not all long sales videos work.

      ... not all webinars work.

      Sometime in 2012 we'll see the big announcement... "the death of webinars".

      To the OP, don't "hate webinars", hate the presenter (hate is a bit harsh). Well done webinars are great. Don't write them all off.
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  • Profile picture of the author dvnent
    most webinar emails i see only give a small time window to watch and i end up missing at most times. A downloadable/private site upload of some type for subscribers isnt too bad an idea
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  • Profile picture of the author Brendan Vraibel
    You can add another one here who hates them. If I ever make an important video of any kind, I always transcribe it. The only videos that I really watch are tutorial type screen recordings.
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  • Profile picture of the author Courage
    I'm on perry marshalls list and pretty much every third email is a link to a webinar.

    It's extremely irritating because you have to sign up for the webinar, and then you
    have to be there when happens, I don't live in America so these webinars are usually really early morning or late at night.

    Even worse is when you buy a product and the first video is 10 minutes of some guy telling you how to sign up to twitter etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author dreamcatcher90
    They're cool as long as they include Powerpoint presentations while speaking. Just watching a video with someone speaking makes me feel like I'm in a classroom.
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    Count me in as another person who *hates* webinars.

    'Matter of fact, I've never attended one!

    My time is soooo packed these days as a solopreneur and moose wrangler and mom of bunches and wife etc., plus I'm still striving to always keep a grip on sanity....

    I would *never* spend my time at a webinar. Too much to do at home on me own!

    Heck, I don't like video marketing either - give me a PDF where I can read it in me own time and own space within 3 minutes instead of a video where I have to sit....and watch....and watch......

    Everyone has what works best for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author PakCyber
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by PakCyber View Post

      People who ramble in webinars annoy me. Get to the point, this is why I watched in the first place.
      They have to ramble on. It simply doesn't take over an hour to say buy my sh*t.
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  • Profile picture of the author iDesigners
    I like downloadable webinars as it can be used later on when we need hear them or while we are travelling.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    A few things we know are true...

    1. You don't need to attend webinars if you don't want to... maybe unless you're held at gunpoint.

    2. Statistically webinars convert higher and at higher pricepoints than plain old sales letters. Whether you like them or not, they work, and so people use them.

    3. Some people prefer reading, some prefer watching.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      A few things we know are true...

      1. You don't need to attend webinars if you don't want to... maybe unless you're held at gunpoint.

      2. Statistically webinars convert higher and at higher pricepoints than plain old sales letters. Whether you like them or not, they work, and so people use them.

      3. Some people prefer reading, some prefer watching.
      Forgot one more thing we know is true.

      Some sellers acknowledge that there are a lot of people who don't want to or can't spend the time viewing webinars and along with their webinars, they have someone type up a transcript. Same with products. I've bought quite a few products that were offered in both video and pdf.

      Now those are smart marketers. I mean, if you're going after every dime you can get, this is the solution that will appeal to anyone.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Forgot one more thing we know is true.

        Some sellers acknowledge that there are a lot of people who don't want to or can't spend the time viewing webinars and along with their webinars, they have someone type up a transcript. Same with products. I've bought quite a few products that were offered in both video and pdf.

        Now those are smart marketers. I mean, if you're going after every dime you can get, this is the solution that will appeal to anyone.
        Transcript for a 2 hour webinar is way too much money for most of them to spend on.

        However, if it's a real, hands-on webinar where they're showing you how to do something it would be tough to generate a transcript for it.

        I think it's funny folks say WF marketers whine about being sold and it just works so basically, stop whining.

        But this is one of the most popular IM forums. The WSO is now becoming a mini-ClickBank, even big names are coming back to do WSO's... so instead of just writing off these type of complaints as whiny WF marketers, consider that maybe there is a change afoot.

        This is like a focus group (if you're in the MMO/IM niche).

        Companies pay big bucks to get together a highly targeted group of customers/consumers to get their feedback and you're getting it here for free. Don't just scoff it off. We all can learn new things about trends, etc.
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        Forgot one more thing we know is true.

        Some sellers acknowledge that there are a lot of people who don't want to or can't spend the time viewing webinars and along with their webinars, they have someone type up a transcript. Same with products. I've bought quite a few products that were offered in both video and pdf.

        Now those are smart marketers. I mean, if you're going after every dime you can get, this is the solution that will appeal to anyone.
        True that would certainly add a lot more value. ...And perceived value actually.
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Crawley
    Some of these posts are cracking me up, lol...

    "Webinars converts sales like crazy for me but I don't like watching them 'cause they always selling something." I laugh but I must agree, haha.

    I like and use webinars when conveying technical how to or information that is much more understandable when receiving via a webinar. They have been a great list builder for me. Now I don't really use them in the IM or offline marketing market because everyone in these markets are constantly bombarded with "Register for My Next and Greatest Webinar" emails. I use them more in the local business market and a few niche markets I work in. I also use them for coaching programs, for coaching purposes not so much for marketing purposes.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by JB View Post

    You waffle on front of a camera for a while and you don't have to spend the time creating a pdf which is easier to scrutinise.
    Most people these days want their information delivered via some reasonable approximation of television. They don't really care about ease of use because they have no intention of actually using it. They just want to pretend for a while, and then go back to their stupid boring lives feeling like they did something.

    And most product creators don't really care what good they do for you, so long as they get your money. They don't care if you learn anything useful because they know you probably have no intention of using it. Since your brain can't distinguish between fantasy and reality, picturing yourself as independent and successful can trick your brain into thinking you actually were.

    So you get addicted to the fantasy and keep going back to some marketplace or other to get your fantasy fix, throwing your money at nothing without noticing it doesn't really get you anywhere for months or even years, and the vendors and affiliates keep right on scooping it up and telling you all about the latest shiny new dream you have just GOT to try.

    There's a lot of money in dealing dope, you know.

    Your complaint isn't really with the webinar format or with video products. It's with bad vendors and bad affiliates selling bad products. And when you think about it, good products are by definition in the minority.
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    • Profile picture of the author sal64
      No... apparently you have to conform.

      BTW, I had no idea about where you are located, so all the more power to you and success.

      There's something nice about someone who can stand up say: I'm happy being me - so screw you and your ideas.

      Too many people drinking the Kool Aid and simply repeating what they're told... passed on as educated opinions.


      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      You're making an assumption that I give a rats ass about being in the minority of people who live in the country and aren't sought out by those webinar whizzes. I'm not offended because no amount of bandwidth could persuade me to watch people pitching products for hours. My time is more valuable than that to me.

      So it is entirely relevant TO ME that I don't like webinars. Might not be relevant to you that I and quite a few people in this thread don't like webinars, but honestly, I only care about how I feel about them ... not about how you or anyone else feels about them or about how they convert. So, I didn't miss your point about webinars making money. I simply don't care how much money you make. I'm happy with what I make and with HOW I make it. You can be in the group that wants to scrape every little penny by any means possible.

      My goals and needs are different. I don't waste time watching webinars and I don't use them and I don't care if I'm missing money.

      I've been very satisfied with what I do and how I do it for 12 years. You be the webinar fan boy. Wooo hooo ... Go Webinars. I'll be who I am.

      Nice work Caliban...

      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Most people these days want their information delivered via some reasonable approximation of television. They don't really care about ease of use because they have no intention of actually using it. They just want to pretend for a while, and then go back to their stupid boring lives feeling like they did something.

      And most product creators don't really care what good they do for you, so long as they get your money. They don't care if you learn anything useful because they know you probably have no intention of using it. Since your brain can't distinguish between fantasy and reality, picturing yourself as independent and successful can trick your brain into thinking you actually were.

      So you get addicted to the fantasy and keep going back to some marketplace or other to get your fantasy fix, throwing your money at nothing without noticing it doesn't really get you anywhere for months or even years, and the vendors and affiliates keep right on scooping it up and telling you all about the latest shiny new dream you have just GOT to try.

      There's a lot of money in dealing dope, you know.

      Your complaint isn't really with the webinar format or with video products. It's with bad vendors and bad affiliates selling bad products. And when you think about it, good products are by definition in the minority.
      As for the OP, and point being products which turn out to be webinars...

      It really depends to be honest.

      If you buy a product which turns out to be a webinar aka product pitch, then you've been screwed.

      On the other hand, I see nothing wrong with creating a product based on real information.

      In other words, if I sell a training series which is done live and with open Q&A sessions... and then record everything... I see nothing wrong with promoting this as a product.

      Any entrepreneur worth their salt would do exactly the same.

      If fact, it sure beats the heck out of canned videos where someone reads off a powerpoint.

      Best to all.

      Sal

      PS: There's enough hate going around in the world... no need to add to it here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    I actually like MOST webinars although I have also dozed off a time or two. They have to be spot on to an area I'm interested in or I don't even sign up. They are even valuable if you just want to study the pitch. I recently 'attended' one put on by a couple of Warriors. In all the time I've been on the WF its the first time I've heard Bill Platt's voice and I can personally testify to his genuine Okieness. He sounds a lot like my favorite brother-in-law who hasn't lived in Tulsa in 30 years but sounds like he just moved from there last Thursday.
    .
    Seriously, I deal with very busy people. Bankers, Lawyers and Executives of all different kinds. I have about 5 seconds to get their attention. They will NOT watch a video if its more than three minutes long. Many won't watch one at all. I have very good luck with audios but they had better be straight to the heart of the matter. It would not occur to me not to send along a PDF transcript. Some of these professional people have amazing reading rates. That is just the way they absorb information.

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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    You are correct in this thread -- most webinars I've seen are horrible, and many webinar presenters have terrible presentation skills or don't provide authentically useful content. Bland pitchfests of theory, poorly-presented is the norm, of hundreds I've seen over the years.

    In surveying my customers, they tell me they want More webinars (from me)... the key is they have to be high-value and professionally done. For example, I've personally produced hundreds of webinars for my business over the last 11 years I've been online fulltime (I did over 91 paid events this year alone, for example).

    But it all starts with a 95% high-value content great honest good free webinar, that has a modest, brief pitch at the end. For many years people have told me my free webinars are better than most of my competitors' for-pay webinars, which is a nice compliment.

    BUT I'm a former corporate fortune 500 professional trainer, and taught MBA courses after that. I've logged thousands of "platform hours" in front of tens of thousands of participants in countries all over the world, to a variety of folks on different topics for years. So I've got a huge edge over my competitors.

    Most people doing webinars aren't professional trainers, and have no speaking, teambuilding, interactive Q&A skills... so they do horribly crappy slow-moving basic-content pitchfests. Thank goodness I've spent decades as a speaking professional before going online, it makes a big difference.

    I totally agree with the main thoughts in this thread, the vast majority of webinars are horrible, amateurish pitchfests that I can't stand to listen to for more than 3-5 minutes without clicking off in disgust, and ask "can I get a video replay?" so I can skim thru them without wasting an hour of my life. Points well made.

    In the IM industry they're taught to only "say what to do, but not HOW to do it, charge 'em for the how"... which means a lot of vague useless bs theory in most webinars. If you want to build trust, you have to give some authentic content... duh. But the huckster-marketers are largely incompetent, greedy, or both.

    -k

    p.s. actually I'm GLAD most webinars and presenters are butt-ugly amateur pitchenarfests, because it makes it easy for us professional speakers who thoughtfully provide advanced, specific genuine "how to" content to stand out and deliver much better content than competitors do.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    Yep, I love webinars too, when done right.. hey Willie good to 'see' you again. It was good meeting you in Denver, years ago. In fact my entire business model has shifted towards "mostly webinars", which are used w/high ticket items as well as standalone low-cost training. I like gotowebinar the best. Right re poor structure, agree... many seem to ramble on without having a specific agenda and a list of "how to" items presented.

    I realized the impact of webinars when I recently redid my site menu (kencalhoun.com) and top left "Webinars" is the main first menu, with a dozen plus in the drop-down menu as the top choice. It's a strategic shift, away from physical/dvds, to streaming education as being the primary mode of training.

    If it were my thread/op I'd make the title "I hate bad webinars!" which we all probably agree with lol
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  • Profile picture of the author viffer211
    If you hate webinars then you're really just a buyer and not a seller, in which case, you're unlikely to be making much money at all anytime soon.

    No marketer with more than half a brain should ever look past a medium which can convert customers at anything from 20 - 50% at all sorts of different price points.

    And they happen in multiple niches as well - I've hosted one for a realtor who was pitching his properties in a certain holiday destination and it brought in more reservations and deposit applications than about 6 months worth or hard work would have done in a normal working capacity.

    Anyone saying 'I hate webinars' is also saying 'I hate huge conversions, easy money and being miles ahead of the competition'. Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by viffer211 View Post

      If you hate webinars then you're really just a buyer and not a seller, in which case, you're unlikely to be making much money at all anytime soon.
      That's just too funny. My mortgage is paid off ... so is my car. Haven't had a day job for 12 years.

      There's a certain moderator here who markets with an email newsletter. Doesn't do videos or webinars either. I may be wrong about this, but I think he's pretty successful. :p
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  • Profile picture of the author John Kilcoyne
    Webinars appear to be the 'In Thing' at the moment. Rather than keep going over and over the content in these in voque offerings I prefer to read PDF's .
    John.
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  • Profile picture of the author PunditGonzo
    If done correctly, webinars can be helpful. Mainly as a Q&A session. Just my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    This thread was a much better way to spend your time than on a webinar. /sarcasm

    It's all good though. Hate them or love them, webinars work well for both promotions and for creating info products IF they're done right and IF the customer's interests are the primary focus.

    Peace
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Z
    I think that done right Webinars are a fantastic tool. The problem now, and is probably the reason for the thread was that they are very much over done now.

    It's like anything in business, someone uses a technique and finds that it works well and helps generate or increase sales, so the word gets out and pretty soon everyone is using the same exact technique.

    Then, all the buyers get burned out because all they see is that one technique over and over and over and over.

    That seems to be where we have gotten now. It's a shame because I like webinars I just think that too many people have jumped on the bandwagon and done such a poor job with them that it is making them look bad as a whole.
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Ron D is right, they are conducted because they just work and convert. I know 2 marketers in here that actually do really good webinars and do give lots of great information but their pitches at the end convert up to 45 - 50% and some even higher depending on the topic.

    They may suck, but they just work. But as long as the presenters give good info, then it should be all good. I hate those straight out pitch fests from that start to finish.
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  • Profile picture of the author Intermission
    I agree with most everyone else as well (and thought it was just me for the longest time!), I hate webinars too and info you buy that comes only available in video form. I MUCH prefer pdfs (as long as the English is readable, many of these are far too sloppily put together too).
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  • Profile picture of the author Mollysue
    I hate them with a passion. I was recently sent a link to a recorded webinar/video conference which showed a playing time of around 90 minutes Sorry Mr Guru, but I have more important things to do with my precious time.

    If I get any more emails from anyone telling me I shouldn't miss their webinar, I'll be hitting the Unsubscribe button.
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  • Profile picture of the author NetworkCorridor
    I think a lot of people are missing the points of most individuals who are running a webinar with a product.

    Often times it is about the product, I have watched a lot of webinars and came out with a tool that has saved me a lot of money over time and has managed to make me a lot of money at the same time.

    Often times a visual connection gives you feelings of a connection and security, as opposed to someone that you have never seen or been introduced to.

    Perhaps they are still a good idea and people are watching, or they would not exist any longer.

    It seems to me the presenter could do a little better job. However, based on the comments I have seen here.
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  • Profile picture of the author UncleDearest
    I hate them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Petroley
    Unfortunately you are right, I agree.
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  • Profile picture of the author NetworkCorridor
    Sorry my second post I did not think my first one made it in, I will run laps.
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  • Profile picture of the author pacelattin
    Webinars are where "experts" read from someone else's.

    People who make money, do. People who want to trick you, sell webinars, seminars, "secrets"
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    • Profile picture of the author davidjames42973
      I'm glad to have bumped into this post. I never knew there were so many webinar haters.

      I'm a huge fan of webinars. I try to attend them from the marketers that offer good information. I also do 1 webinar a week for my email list. I take the approach where every week I try to deliver the best content I possibly can. Sometimes I have something to sell at the end of the webinar, but there are other times I'm offering great content because I enjoy doing so.

      Thank you webinar haters for speaking up. I am going to experiment with this with my email list. Do they prefer webinars or do they prefer pdf's?
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  • Profile picture of the author thekaver
    i totally agree with you.

    some people do see more value in videos and webinars!!!!

    me personally i prefer 1 pdf i can read through
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  • Profile picture of the author dutchguy
    I like some (offline) webinars, sometimes when the person speeks a bit too slow I speed them up in the VLC player. The online seminars however are most of the time on incovient times (at least here in Europe)
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
    Worth mentioning again is the preparation and presentation. A couple of weeks ago I attended a Willie Crawford webinar on a Friday night no less. I have three pages of notes and I got a couple of gems that I could use within 24 hours. I don't know how many people attended but I don't think many left early. It was a little like having a good conversation with a friend in my living room. Obviously he's had some training in public speaking which I recommend to ANYONE who does presentations large or small.

    Thomas
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    good point Willie re prerecorded ones, I need to add that to my process, it sounds like a great way to leverage/automate time
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  • Profile picture of the author Shannon Herod
    There is a reason why Youtube.com is the second biggest Search engine.

    There is also a reason that Television is so popular.

    There is also a reason reading is almost abandoned by the majority of people after they get out of school.

    So, there is a reason that I use video.

    Here is something to thing about...

    You do not hate webinars...

    You hate boring webinars!

    Video and other sorts of media are preferred over reading. Here is why most want written material... A sort cut.

    I did a test recently to see if this was the case. I took a product and split it into 3 sections.

    1.Video only
    2. Video and full transcripts
    3. Video and notes with time stamps on the notes.

    Now, I monitored the feedback, the downloads of the pdf and the completion rate of the video.

    Guess which one won?

    Guess which one came in last?

    Ok, so #3 won overwhelmingly and the feedback was awesome.

    #2 lost and #1 came in the middle.

    So guess what I now do. Video with time stamped notes.

    So, to me it shows that people do not want to read. They simply want a shortcut. And that mentality has been proven for thousands of years.
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  • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
    Personally, I like reports that I can flip through and get to the good part in about 2 minutes, as opposed to a webinar. I think webinars as teaching tools do have their place, though. You really need a mixture of the two. As someone mentioned, different people learn in different ways. I think webinars grew out of the idea that people look at videos as having more intrinsic value than print--as a product to sell. But I think most people on the wf are over that, and have come to realize that a succinct report is much better than a webinar, in most cases...not all.
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  • Profile picture of the author winsenken
    Not all the webinar are bad, but I agree that some of the webinar are boring and the screenshot quality is damn low. Sometime, worse, the quality of sound is suck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jazzmin
    Most webinars are too long. The information could be condensed.

    I don't like the trend of videos and webinar replays not having pause and fast-
    forward controls on the player. I like the option to have some control.

    My trick: There are 3 solitaire games I enjoy--Hearts (pre-loaded on most PCs), 8-off (goodsol version has undo), and, from dkmsoftware, Shisen (free). I listen while playing. Also, I keep a Notepad open for notes. This combines exercising my mind, recreation, and (hopefully) getting good information.

    Another trick: If you can download the webinar and play it back with VLC Media Player, Double the playback speed. Your brain will still understand what is being said, and in fact may find the slightly added challenge more engaging.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    with perceived value of pdf "special reports", the best combination seems to be combination of webinars + pdf special reports that summarize main points in the webinar content, dripped during product launches
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Mark Hess View Post

      People don't like 85 videos....
      Yes they do. People are still raving about the Amazon WSO earlier this year that sold like umpty bajillion copies. They LOVE getting 85 videos for $10.

      But they won't use them. Who the hell has time?

      I don't. I unzipped the archive and went "sweet mother of crap in a hat that is a lot of videos" and that's the last time I even looked in the folder.

      So what do you want?

      Are you just after a crowd of fans and a bunch of money in your pocket?

      Or do you want to actually help people?

      One of those is a lot easier than the other.
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      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author Trivium
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Yes they do. People are still raving about the Amazon WSO earlier this year that sold like umpty bajillion copies. They LOVE getting 85 videos for $10.

        But they won't use them. Who the hell has time?

        I don't. I unzipped the archive and went "sweet mother of crap in a hat that is a lot of videos" and that's the last time I even looked in the folder.

        So what do you want?

        Are you just after a crowd of fans and a bunch of money in your pocket?

        Or do you want to actually help people?

        One of those is a lot easier than the other.

        Interesting perspective. I suppose I'm more used to helping people than I am to IM lol, because I never really thought of it this way. I suppose if your end goal is just to make the most money (which with IM, it probably should be), then just throwing a ton of videos to the crowd of people eager to snatch them up would work quite well.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Trivium View Post

          I suppose I'm more used to helping people than I am to IM lol, because I never really thought of it this way.
          The dirty little underlying secret is that most people do not really want to be helped. We all know the saying: "give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach him to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime."

          In the Real World, long before he learns how to fish, he'll start complaining that he still doesn't have any of the fish you promised him and he wants a refund.

          Meanwhile, all of these people are saying "give him a fish, then offer to teach him how to fish." But then he'll complain that he didn't come here to learn how to fish, he came here to get another fish, and he'll stop showing up.

          All of those people know damn well that what they really need is to learn how to fish, but they're too bound up in the fantasy of discovering a secret place with an endless supply of fish they can just throw in their sack without learning anything.

          And there is such a place. It's called "already knowing how to fish." But until you learn how to fish, you can't get there from here.

          Everyone seems to think money is like beans, and there's only so much of it that gets parceled out to everyone on the planet. Money is an idea. It's numbers in a computer. Every day, people make up more numbers and stick them in the computer, and they're money because enough of the right people agree they're money. Think of it this way.

          You have 500 Quatloo coins, and you put them in the bank. The bank says "we'll give you 4% annual interest," so at the end of the year you'll have 520 Quatloo coins. Then the bank loans those 500 Quatloo coins to Bob, who has to pay 8% annual interest.

          Except those are the only 500 Quatloo coins in the world.

          Now, at the end of the year, Bob owes the bank 540 Quatloo coins - so the bank has 40 Quatloo coins on paper that were manufactured out of thin air. But there are no actual Quatloo coins behind them. The only 500 Quatloo coins in the world belong to you. Meanwhile, the bank owes you 20 of those coins, but you don't (and can't) get any more actual Quatloo coins. There are only 500 of them. You already own them.

          But the idea of those 40 Quatloo coins can be bought, sold, and traded on the open market just like actual Quatloo coins that really do exist... so long as nobody wants to actually pick up the coins and hold them.

          Money does not actually exist. It's imaginary. It's arbitrary. It exists because we say it exists. It is an elaborate global game of let's-pretend. And what makes you rich is to convince enough of the right people that we should all pretend you have a lot of it.

          It is not a numbers game. It is a relationship game.

          But everyone's so busy scrambling to grab the beans out of the bucket, and find a bigger bucket with more beans in it, and come up with some way to grab more beans at once, they never quite seem to figure out that there is no bucket and there are no beans.
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          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author TimCastleman
    I haven't read any of the comments - just the original post and I'm wondering this ... of all the people who clicked like - how many of them make 6 figures in IM??

    My guess is maybe 1 or 2 but the majority don't.

    Now how many people hosting the webinars make that much?

    Many more is my guess.

    That's the real lesson.

    Oh and it's called transcripts - it will solve the problem.

    If the content provider doesn't offer it - get them done yourself. Problem solved.

    Tim
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  • Profile picture of the author Trivium
    I see that a webinar, if done well, can present content in an engaging and interesting manner, however more often than not, this is not the case. For some people, rambling in front of a camera for 10-30 minutes is much easier than writing an e-book.

    In my opinion, the benefits of a webinar are:
    • They are something you can often listen to in the background whilst doing other tasks.
    • They can be very engaging, and convey ideas and techniques that would be difficult to demonstrate in written media.
    • Are good for people who don't wish to read through what can often be extensive documentation.
    However, I feel the downsides of webinars significantly outweigh the up-sides:
    • To get the information you need, you usually need to watch the whole video. These videos can be quite long, making the whole process inefficient and tedious.
    • While you can easily search for a specific topic or section in a text-based document, you don't have this luxury with a video.
    • You can read a pdf of e-book at your own pace, and thus you govern the speed at which you absorb and learn the material. In a webinar, you are trapped at the pace of the videos themselves, and if this is either too slow or too fast for you, then the experience is frustrating
    • In videos, you have a captive audience, and thus the producers are often more inclined to deviate from the strict goal of the video (to teach you something) and will often add irrelevant information, or try to promote their product(s).
    I feel webinars would be much better suited as a complement to written material, rather than just a standalone product. This way, you'd have the option to read the pdf/ebook first, and then refer to the relevant webinar if you needed further information, or a different take on a section of the text. But that would obviously be more difficult than just doing either a webinar, or an ebook.



    I apologise if I've repeated what's already been mentioned, but this thread is quite long, and I haven't had the chance to read through every post.
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  • Profile picture of the author EricSt
    I like attending webinars for the same reason I enjoy reading sales copy (even for a product I have no interest in purchasing), to learn what is working.

    I almost started a thread a while ago stating my distaste for the opening headline "Who Else Wants to Learn blah blah blah..." I've seen this one so many times it makes me sick. But, if it keeps popping up that must mean it's working. Or at least did work in the past.

    I think that when utilized correctly, the webinar is the most powerful tool an internet marketer can use. But if abused, or presented poorly, it can also be the quickest way to lose a subscriber.

    Providing value to our audience should be our top priority no matter what medium we're using (blog, email, webinar). If we do that right, the rest will follow.
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  • Profile picture of the author itrepreneur
    I prefer audio seminars as I can listen while driving.
    A PDF of the webinar is always good so you can read when you get a chance.
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  • Profile picture of the author JustLight
    Accepted that most webinars are like that but there are really good ones with great content. But can you afford to throw away the baby with bad water?
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  • Profile picture of the author ProScribe
    I have seen a few well presented webinars which were informative but like many of the warriors I prefer things in text simply because it is easier to refer back to them later.

    If something is actually useful, I'm going to reread it multiple times and I want to be able to find quickly what I'm looking for.

    That said I can imagine that webinars convert better overall with the general public for the same reason that people like television more than they like books
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Hatfield
    I love webinars!!! Young beautiful girls in lingerie frolicking about.

    Oh wait, never mind that is webcams.

    I hate webinars that don't offer you a replay so that you can skip around. I think some of their strategies are just to babble on about nothing until they wear you down and turn you into a mindless drone that pulls out their credit card.

    On the other hand, if you provide good value and actionable content then I am more than happy to sit through it no matter how long it is. Although I still want a replay.
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  • Profile picture of the author frank07
    I prefer to read text. I hate some webinars with some guru talk and talk...
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I hate what I call webimercials!

    I have to admit my experience is very limited. A few times but no more than a few minutes before I logged out. Each time I remember thinking, "Are you serious?"

    On the other side of the coin I heard some can be educational and/or motivational without sales pitches at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Janice Sperry View Post

      I hate what I call webimercials!
      There is a webinar formula that is basically the "hotbox" 1-hour sales seminar over the internet.

      The key to making that formula work is to spend your first 45 minutes giving out totally free and distinctly useful information. Then you swing into the pitch without an obvious transition, and at the "back of the room" you have a $300 product.

      Most people trying to do webinars on the internet completely bork this up and try to pitch their product the whole hour. The whole point of the formula is to make people happy first, so even if they don't buy they walk away with some awesome, useful information they can use to do business better or make make money.

      That way, they'll come to your next free webinar with a different $300 product at the back.
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  • Profile picture of the author SearchingLost
    I like the webinar depending on the speaker. But more often then not, it seems as though most webinars tend to be someone just reading from a power-point, which can be boring. That is why I like it when the speaker has a great personality.
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  • Profile picture of the author barickiza
    Me to. They are too long and practically do not say anything useful.
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    • Profile picture of the author darkangel
      I actually like webinars (and calls in general). I haven't attended many webinars recently though, mostly because I don't feel so "hungry" for information anymore and my business is doing pretty well. Back in the day when I started with internet marketing and was too broke to buy products, calls and webinars were precious to me. I've learned so much about this business mindset and how this whole thing works.

      What surprises me about this thread is that most people here (maybe all) are marketers that supposedly understand the dynamics of sales and here they are complaining about "the pitch" just like the lay customer does. I understand if a customer who doesn't know anything about marketing feels betrayed when he's invited to a call or webinar and realizes the reason for the event is to sell a product. But hey, marketers bitching about it? Really?

      What annoys me about video however is how video products are overrated. I don't mind webinars at all and I still find them useful to keep me motivated and in the right mindset to take action about my business. Video products on the other hand are abusive! I actually like them for what they are, especially if they come with PDFs and audios - the whole multimedia package, I love that! The problem is how it's being priced lately. No product is worth $1,997! Not even the quintessential $997! Videos actually have less information than a book, are harder to follow (at least for me, I learn better reading) and much faster and easier to produce than a well written book. This whole thing is about perception, obviously! I just don't want to be one of the dunces that think that video products are "more valuable" than a real book (or ebook for that matter).

      I really miss the old days when you could get a "good" product to learn the drill and get your business going for $97. Still overpriced books, that's for sure, but still affordable for the majority of people that are new to this business. I bought my share of $997, $1,997 products when they were a novelty but soon found out that they had no more value than the old 97 dollar ebooks.

      I don't hate "the gurus" by any means, but I can't get myself to purchase their products anymore, even though I can now actually afford them. Some of them have great insight, but when I'm interested I try to grasp what it is during the launch and yes, even watching the webinars, but shelling 2000 dollars to watch shallow videos that won't really add much to the basic concepts that were presented during the launch just feels wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author positivemagic
    I don't mind webinars that have good content and not alot of hype. But PDF files take too long to read. Gives me a headache. I like short 3-5 min videos with quick instructions on how to do certain things. No story line, no upsale on products. If I like the short lesson, I would love to go to the blog to see more. But that's it for me. Does anyone agree?
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  • Profile picture of the author James Foster
    I think it should also be taken into account where we are ....

    We're on a forum, text base. Of course most people are going to prefer written ... that's why they're here.

    I bet if this were a video post, put up on YouTube, most of the video responses (like thread replies) would be saying the exact opposite. Everyone would be talking about how much they love webinars ...

    You want to complain about a Democrat - go to a Republican convention ....

    Want to complain about video - got to a text based arena.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    great points from most everyone. nowadays (and I'm finding this the case more in my own business as well), people don't so much want webinars, as a downloadable REPLAY of the webinar, meaning basically they just want a video download.

    so that's what I do in ADDITION to the LIVE webinars, is record my webinars I do and attendees can download them from a link in email I send them 24-48 hours after it's over. when i see webinar offers, I always just wait til there's a replay link, use internetdownloadmanager.com to snag/auto download the video of the webinar, then fast forward/scan through it at my leisure, taking 2-3 minutes to look at it instead of an hour (same thing, or Crtl-U or firebug to find s3 source code of the video in those salesletters with no video controls, so I can download it in a minute and scrub through it using media player, not watching for the embedded delay java buy button etc)

    most webinars are useless pitchfests and very little information that's practical, so I like a REPLAY /video link that I can scrub/fast forward through.

    for webinar presenters, there's a lot of things you can do to keep people coming back for live events (like the Q&A you do with them, is live, not recorded), and other strategies.
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  • Profile picture of the author jivens
    Banned
    I completely agree with the OP, this is a growing trend and it's getting REALLY annoying. I can read just fine!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Clay
    I enjoy webinars that provide value. I don't mind if they try to sell something either, just as long as I believe its going to be of use to me. Also, its good if you get a replay of the webinar so you can watch it again at your own pace in case you missed something in your notes.
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  • Profile picture of the author ahlexis
    You know what I hate most about MOST webinars?

    All these webinar marketing people know that smartphone sales are outpacing PC sales. Yet they take NO consideration for the person who is attending the webinar using their smartphone! I mean, not everybody is sitting @ home waiting around for their message. Some of us are out and about getting other stuff done, possibly standing in line at the grocery checkout or someplace else where plugging in a set of earbud/headphones is no big deal.

    How dumb is that? ESPECIALLY when sometimes the SUBJECT of the webinar is the growth of or marketing of a smartphone tool! For instance, there was a product put out a while back about how unreadable the typical offline website is when somebody goes to it using a smartphone. Yet the WEBINAR for this product didn't even give the details of the phone number to call in or the webinar number to allow you to attend using your smartphone, you had to be in front of your PC in order to get the details to phone in to hear their pitch!

    I've seen it done where upon signing up by providing your email you are provided with the details to phone in to hear just the audio of the webinar, but it's really REALLY rarely used.

    I mean, these guys should be all over GoToMeeting to GET this platform something usable for those on the Android platform!

    Or perhaps they should use another method of providing their webinar to the public. Because GoToWebinar pretends like the Android market doesn't exist.

    I mean, in my mind this is the most obvious display of Einstein's comment as mentioned below I have seen in some time.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by ahlexis View Post

      Yet they take NO consideration for the person who is attending the webinar using their smartphone!
      Precisely how many products have you bought at the end of webinars you attended with your smartphone?

      Therein lies the answer to why nobody giving webinars cares about smartphones.
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  • Profile picture of the author NetworkCorridor
    I have found a lot of good products watching webinars, that have saved me a lot more time once it was implemented. Personally, it makes good use of driving down the road if you have some good headsets.

    A lot of good products are found on Webinars because that is where professionals often times go.

    Some people I bet would rather listen while working on something else than to try to read it.

    I do think they are often time mismanaged.

    If it is a product, then they should be able to skip the introductory as I would not care about the presenter rather I would prefer to know the product.

    If I was going to rely on someone for personal advice on a on-going matter, seeing them and getting to know them is helpful.

    I would suggest they just lock in some more flavor.
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  • Profile picture of the author NetworkCorridor
    I have found a lot of good products watching webinars, that have saved me a lot more time once it was implemented. Personally, it makes good use of driving down the road if you have some good headsets.

    A lot of good products are found on Webinars because that is where professionals often times go.

    Some people I bet would rather listen while working on something else than to try to read it.

    I do think they are often time mismanaged.

    If it is a product, then they should be able to skip the introductory as I would not care about the presenter rather I would prefer to know the product.

    If I was going to rely on someone for personal advice on a on-going matter, seeing them and getting to know them is helpful.

    I would suggest they just lock in some more flavor.
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  • Profile picture of the author FreeMeal
    You can pretty much guarantee in every webinar there will be a good 10-15 minutes wasted while the host tries to take a question from a viewer, but he can't get the mic to work.

    Or the host will spend about twenty minutes explaining something ridiculously simple in as many, over elaborate and different ways as possible. And all along you're thinking; "yes I got it the first time, 'you right mouse click and choose Save as', can we please move on...", then they'll say "lets take a ten minute break".

    Also, people's weird vocal habits become really noticeable and annoying. I was watching/listening to one the other day, and the guy kept smacking his lips after every sentence. I had to switch it off about a quarter of the way through.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Now this is an interesting thread! I was just thinking how much I dislike video-only stuff, whether it's a presentation OR the product itself.

      I'm a reader and a writer, so I very much prefer text to anything else. I love, LOVE books, or anything with the printed word. As others have mentioned, it allows me to go through something at my own pace and I read very quickly. It also allows me to skim and skip to different parts.

      Next comes audio. I fell in love with my iPhone and have a BUNCH of business training audios on it which I'm constantly listening to, whether I'm in the bathtub (yes, seriously) or in my car -- or anywhere else.

      Video comes in dead last. Video definitely comes first after an in-person meeting or presentation. It's the next best thing, adding a personal element which makes the person seem more real, adding value and immediacy (unless it's only a Power Point presentation with narration).

      But, as others have mentioned, I HATE the inability to skim and skip for the info and the difficulty in referencing a particular point. I also dislike when I can't fast forward, or even see how long the video IS. Arrgghh! (Smart marketers at least tell you how long the video is!)

      Also, as coconutcrawler said, it's especially irritating when you have to go all the way back to the beginning if you want to rewind to find a particular piece of info. Arrgghh!

      And just the fact that I HAVE to be at my computer to watch a video.. I can't be in the tub, in my car, or doing anything else if I want the info.

      Hence, I almost never attend webinars (sales presentations). The videos I tend to watch are usually the product itself. And that's only with people I really enjoy watching/listening to, like Carrie Wilkerson. In other words, I have to really like you to pay attention to a video beyond 10 minutes, period.

      I recently purchased a list-building product from Carrie Wilkerson, which is in webinar format. But only because I really like her.

      Jeff Walker's current PLF course is mostly video, which drives me NUTS! I like him though and his info is good. He DOES have some coaching calls and PDFs of different points. Which reminds me: I need to e-mail his support staff to see if they'll provide MP3s of the videos so I'm not hogtied to my computer for the info.

      For me, I have to force myself to do video since I don't care to appear on camera. So I won't be doing anything with a lot of video in it any time soon. For me, video is a nice side dish, not the meat of my offerings. I'd prefer to skip video altogether, but I can't deny the power of video.

      The bottom line though, is it doesn't matter what we LIKE. What matters are the numbers. Since everyone's niche/target market is different, your results will be different from others. You need to test and go with what works. If video/webinars give you a better conversion, go with it. If not, then don't.

      If you're going to do video though, I'd recommend sticking with something like YouTube or another service which can be viewed on mobile phones. It drives me NUTS when I want to watch a video on my phone, but can't because it's hosted by Vimeo or some other such service which isn't viewable on mobile devices!

      Ok, end rant.

      Michelle
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  • Profile picture of the author Saito
    They are not my mode of consumption, for sure. I have spent years increasing my reading and learning speed, and can fly through several ebooks in one sitting, scanning, skimming, skipping around as needed, in a Starbucks or comfortable setting.

    Having a computer in front of me for 1-2 more hours feels like I'm working more. It feels like work.

    You can't skip ahead and come back easily in webinars. You can't get an easy overview of what you will learn. It's totally linear...just watch and wait and watch and wait.

    The only tip I have is that if you're using Windows Media Player you can click on Enhancements --> Audio Speed and listen to it 1.5-2.0 times as fast to help speed it up a little.

    I tried letting them play as background music but it affected my ability to take notes and therefore learn. When I'm in learning mode I try to be in a peak state and full-on BRING IT just like when I'm working.
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  • I know a thing or two about webinars, and I can 100% assure you that they work in terms of conversion, prospect engagement and control of the sales pitch flow.

    Obviously, that assumes that you can create a GOOD webinar. Just like watching a good film is fun, and watching a bad film is awfully boring. So, if can craft a good webinar as it's meant to be done, I can 100% guarantee you that they TOTALLY outperform long text sales pages, video sales pages, etc.

    And I speak with hard data in my hands...
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    • Profile picture of the author starsign
      I never watch a webinar live as they can be so frustrating.

      Being in the UK most webinars are not in my timezone, which works perfectly for me as I prefer to watch the recording.

      I wait for it to finish loading in the background, then skip the introduction waffle, digest and take notes of the valuable bits and never listen to the sales pitch.

      I have learned a fair bit from webinars and know which marketers always deliver some decent content before their sales pitch.
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  • Profile picture of the author jayspann
    Call me a hypocrite because I almost never watch webinars, but do host several webinars a month.

    I do have mine edited into video replays, audios, and pdfs.

    While I dont take the time to watch most webinars because I agree with you that most of the info is fluff. Including some of my webinars.

    What I can say in that my webcast generate ten times the return on my time invested then other forms of media.

    Webinars won't be going anywhere because they work.

    My .02

    Jay Spann
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  • Profile picture of the author celente



    If you do not like then do not watch them.

    If they are increasing your conversions, then keep using them.
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  • Profile picture of the author ayhaah
    I love most webinars, have learned more from webinars than most anything else.
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  • Profile picture of the author sandy christine1
    I think they are a waste for speaker, and the virtual attendee.

    Webinars, where a speaker presents over the Internet, at a predetermined time to an audience sitting at home or at their desks, have always seemed to be a classic example of having your cake and eating it too. By the way - that expression makes no sense whatsoever. If I'm having cake you better believe that I want to eat it!
    Anyway, I digress...
    The problem with webinars is that they have all the disadvantages of actually going to see someone speak, with none of the advantages.
    From the speaker side, webinars offer the possibility of actual interaction with participants. However, because the interaction is one way, unless initiated by the viewer, the speaker has no idea as to how well the presentation is going and therefore how to tailor it to address potential issues.
    I also cannot help shaking the notion that webinars are, for the most part, the lazy way out. If online delivery is what is required, let's have proper content. Presentations that can be downloaded, shared, and watched again and again on the viewers schedule. YouTube, Slideshare, or even PowerPoint all make this very easy.
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  • Profile picture of the author tenji
    That depends, but I hate most of the webinars.
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  • Profile picture of the author cbnet
    I prefer PDF files than videos/audios, as you can read PDF files at your own pace. You can file & refer to them easily & also make notes along the margins in PDF files.
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  • I like them but I'm more selective now. Some are too hard to listen to technically: low audio, too many speakers, a mess.
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    Marketing is not a battle of products. It is a battle of perceptions.
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