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Can we still expect some honesty?

by kirakirafuwafuwa
21 replies
I know how important it is to upsell your products, but IM is reaching a point where almost every sales letter and squeeze page are outrageous. So much, in fact, that it's hard to believe anymore.

The push button stuff and generating over 9000 USD in one month stuff can already be excused because they're just insane, but then you have the little things such as "I used this link building method on my sites and they worked" (I'm skeptical because, if you have the ability to make successful money sites with your SEO, why do you have to waste time on offering it to others?), or "This 12-page e-book got me a gajillion subscribers in no time" (why waste time selling it when you can be building bigger lists and thus earning more money from e-mail marketing?).

I'm not saying all are lies, but can we ever expect some honest-to-goodness marketing? If so, how do we spot these honest ones?
#expect #honesty
  • Profile picture of the author swords
    Originally Posted by kirakirafuwafuwa View Post

    I know how important it is to upsell your products, but IM is reaching a point where almost every sales letter and squeeze page are outrageous. So much, in fact, that it's hard to believe anymore.

    The push button stuff and generating over 9000 USD in one month stuff can already be excused because they're just insane, but then you have the little things such as "I used this link building method on my sites and they worked" (I'm skeptical because, if you have the ability to make successful money sites with your SEO, why do you have to waste time on offering it to others?), or "This 12-page e-book got me a gajillion subscribers in no time" (why waste time selling it when you can be building bigger lists and thus earning more money from e-mail marketing?).

    I'm not saying all are lies, but can we ever expect some honest-to-goodness marketing? If so, how do we spot these honest ones?
    From people with proof. Making a website and ranking it up in Google can be an easy task - but a very tedious one. If I could rank one site to #1 in Google and make $3000/mo for 10 hours of work, or sell an eBook (with proof of my sites making me this much) for $20 and sell 1000 copies.... eh?
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Same Old Rant, over and over.

    It seems like every third new member picks one of the standard rants, fills it full of the same illogical questions, iffy assumptions, and sloppy thinking, and posts it like they were the very first to ever think of them.

    And, of course, since no-one else ever thought of them, new threads have to be created for each iteration.

    Bleah.


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author T.R. McCarroll
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Same Old Rant, over and over.

      It seems like every third new member picks one of the standard rants, fills it full of the same illogical questions, iffy assumptions, and sloppy thinking, and posts it like they were the very first to ever think of them.

      And, of course, since no-one else ever thought of them, new threads have to be created for each iteration.

      Bleah.


      Paul
      How about this ... newbies when joining be forced to go through a detailed interactive FAQ before they be allowed to post in the general forum.

      Just my 2

      T.R.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Here's an idea:

    STOP READING THOSE THREADS (OR BUYING THOSE OFFERS).

    Complaining about it is utterly inconsequential.

    There's a goldmine of actionable, profitable information, tools, services and value waiting for you in the WSO section here and in the market in general.

    Just don't get distracted on your way there by the next shiny object.

    Brian
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    Brian McLeod
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  • Profile picture of the author Roaddog
    I don't think anything has gotten better or worse...
    Just what one notices.

    There have always been people who use exaggeration and flat out lies in advertising...and not, by far, just in IM.


    The more the world seems to change, the more it stays the same

    Maybe time just to grow up and see what is?

    I really fail to see where people think the Internet is any different, than any street corner.

    Buyer beware....
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  • Profile picture of the author shireen
    Hi:

    Shireen here :-)

    In my opinion, the best way to learn is to do it, experience it & learn from mistakes.

    You'll know how to spot for scam or genuine info when you gain more experience..

    Hope it helps :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Originally Posted by shireen View Post

      Hi:

      Shireen here :-)
      Yes, ma'am, we know. It says so right there at the top of your profile section.
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    • Profile picture of the author kirakirafuwafuwa
      Originally Posted by shireen View Post

      Hi:

      Shireen here :-)

      In my opinion, the best way to learn is to do it, experience it & learn from mistakes.

      You'll know how to spot for scam or genuine info when you gain more experience..

      Hope it helps :-)
      What if you can't afford to mistakes? If your livelihood is on the line?

      I don't read WSOs or other offers to whine about them. Heck, I wasn't even referring to WSOs. I'm referring to sales pitches in general. As I said, it seems hard to find honesty for those on the Internet.

      Btw if I saw a thread like this, I wouldn't have made it. No need for animosity.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by kirakirafuwafuwa View Post

        What if you can't afford to mistakes?
        Then perhaps you shouldn't be in business.
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        BS free SEO services, training and advice - SEO Point

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        • Profile picture of the author kirakirafuwafuwa
          Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

          Then perhaps you shouldn't be in business.
          I'm saying this from a newbie's perspective. Say, I have a set amount of money so I can only do so much.

          That guy (I don't know how to multi-quote) raised a good point about how profitable it can be to write guides that you're gonna write anyway, but I'm talking about guides that supposedly teach how to earn over $10,000 in just one month. You could double or even triple that if you work at it instead of writing an e-book about it and having to deal with marketing and after sales support. Sure, down the line a $27 e-book can make $27,000, but won't you be able to make much more than that if you apply your own method to yourself?
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  • Profile picture of the author kennykjtan
    You can detect only a lie when you've been lied to so the best thing is to ignore all the "Make Money Fast" "Push 3 Button to make $10,342.91 in 2 weeks" stuff.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by kirakirafuwafuwa View Post

    I'm skeptical because, if you have the ability to make successful money sites with your SEO, why do you have to waste time on offering it to others?
    You seem to have some weird idea that writing down what you do and putting a price tag on it is a waste of time.

    First of all, you can only do so much. If you want to scale your business up beyond the number of hours you personally can do what you do in a day, then you have to write down what you do so you can train someone. It's just part of growing your business.

    So why not stick a price tag on that and sell it? You had to do it anyway; it's a sunk cost. But what you'll find, more often than not, is that you can make more money with that product than you can make building those sites.

    Meanwhile, the customers are paying a lot less for the product than the product will make them if they follow the method. Sure, it's $50 down the drain today, but if it's going to make you another $100 in a month... where's the problem? Especially if it's going to make you $100 the next month, too?

    Everybody wins. It may seem weird, but it's true: when a legitimate marketer writes a legitimate guide to his methods and sells it, both the vendor and the customers are better off for it.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author mosthost
    You have to kiss a lot of frogs before you find the Prince
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  • Profile picture of the author JieLim
    Ask for recommendations. That's one of the best ways. I found two top quality internet marketers, Tristan Bull and Kim Roach through a friend who had bought their products before, and I agree that their products were very useful.

    So ask for recommendations! =)

    Jie
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    Originally Posted by kirakirafuwafuwa View Post

    I'm not saying all are lies, but can we ever expect some honest-to-goodness marketing? If so, how do we spot these honest ones?
    To reply to both questions asked with one answer -

    No, you cannot expect some "honest-to-goodness" marketing. It exists, but it's so shrouded in horse-droppings that you'll never spot it unless you actually buy the horse-s and discover for yourself just how worthless and misleading it is.
    The process of spending your money on horse-s is called 'gaining experience', and you'll run out of money long before you run out of horse-s to buy. So you have to pray that the 'experience' gained begins to influence your judgement before the cash runs out.

    Remember this - when you buy all the horse-s you're helping to put bread on the table of a poor struggling IM'er who has also bought more than their fair share of horse-s. So you're part of a natural cycle of events which simply could not exist without you, almost like Mother Nature's glorious planet.
    Be thankful for what you have and never stop giving
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Wilson
    I rather go for 12 page high quality ebook then 100 pages of same old SEO stuff that doesn't even work nowadays.

    Ask a certain webmaster how he's done it in person through email and offer $$$ in return.
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    - High search volume keywords , high CPC keywords, easy to rank keywords
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Caliban offered an excellent, and very often accurate, explanation of why someone might take the time to write down and sell their methods. There are others you might consider if you looked beyond the simple "What's the maximum money?" issue.

      For some people, writing it out forces them to clarify their thoughts. They see things they wouldn't otherwise have noticed, and they end up being more effective at what they do in their own businesses.

      Some people do it for a type of recognition they can't get from most of their family and friends: The respect of people who understand the business and what's involved.

      Some do it for their egos.

      For some, teaching is a social thing. It's a connection to the world in an increasingly disconnected environment.

      Some simply want to make a difference. Yes, there really are people who help because they want to help. The really smart ones know that help that comes free isn't often any help at all, since it's treated as being worth the price asked.

      There are reasons aside from money that drive some scammers, too. For some, it's the challenge of figuring ways around the structures meant to keep them out.

      For some, it's a feeling of freedom and/or control they only get by saying "Screw the rules. I make my own choices."

      For others, it's ego. They measure their worth by money, but all that is for them is a way of keeping score.

      And some are just malevolent little creatures who derive pleasure from knowing they've caused someone else pain.

      There are almost certainly other reasons on both sides that I haven't thought of.

      I think it's important, though, not to confuse well-meaning incompetence with deliberate scamming. I've seen a whole lot more of the former than the latter.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author HairyPoppins
    You just sort of learn to ignore the numbers. They're cute and they're sexy but it most cases they're bs or maybe they are true but it's the exception to the rule. If you plan on buying a product then look at the reviews and check the reputation of the seller. If something is crap people will say it's crap. That's what I've doe in the past and it seems to have worked for me. I got burned a few times it's just part of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author dudelive
      I just ran into a "headline" problem with a WSO of mine.

      I was alerted that my headline was misleading when really it wasn't but then again I didn't clarify the statement well enough.

      I am very strict at only saying what I know is true and can prove.

      You have to take everything with a grain of salt in this and all business when it comes to advertising.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    One of the biggest fallacies in marketing is that if people have a winning business model they would never sell it or offer it to others because they'd be too busy working it. People who believe this often reason that folks who've discovered something that works would carefully guard it so others wouldn't "steal" the idea and dilute the market.

    There might be a small bit of truth to that in certain venues but overall, it's baloney.

    Take a look at the WSO forum. Every day thousand of sound business models are sold. Every day people start threads on this and other boards complaining about hyped up WSOs and how this doesn't work and how that is a lie, etc. The truth is, most of the stuff works very well.

    I put up a WSO back in the spring that outlines how to market wholesale PLR and MRR products. A couple of years ago, almost by accident I found myself pulling in around a thousand bucks a month doing just that. And when I put up the WSO people were sending me private messages asking stuff like, "if this system is so good, why in the world would you be selling it?"

    I have to laugh. First, there's plenty for everyone. If you believe otherwise you're coming from "lack" or a poverty mindset and it will kick your ass because you WILL get what you belive. But the truth is, it's almost impossible to saturate a market, especially one like PLR - MRR. But that's not the point at all.

    Most people are in love with the idea of making a living online but not with what it takes to actually do it. I swear, if people would just pick a freakin' horse and ride it (that's a metaphor for putting a plan into action) they'd start making money.

    But the majority don't. On any given day you can come here, the main forum, and read dozens of posts about how dishonest WSO sellers are. Or about how many WSOs they've bought that don't work. Or about any number of other imaginary problems that jump into their path on the way to success.

    Sometimes I'll click on the profile of such a person and check his or her posting history. And sure enough, the individual is involved in lots of threads where people are complaining about how freakin' unfair everything is and how they get screwed over all the time. And as Earl Nightingale once said, "You become what you think about."

    There's an old saying: "You can make money or you can make excuses, but you can't make both." That's true.

    How do you spend your day? A lot of people seem to think there's some kind of virtue in having a popular post on WF. That might be true if the post actually offers something of value.

    But if it's just another post whining about how unfair everything is (these posts are almost always very popular) then it's a waste of time, a productivity killer. You can't print out a popular thread and trade it for groceries.

    Here's an idea that might serve you well. If you're not a War Room member, join the War Room. I think it's $40. There are literally 100s of 'seasoned' WSOs in there and they're available for free. There's absolutely no need to allocate a friggin budget for WSOs. Just pick a horse and ride it. And if you do want some variety in business models, the War Room offers just that. The beauty is, you pay once and have 100s of different plans available for free.

    Find one you like, put blinders on and just do it. I watched a video yesterday of a really young marketer. His advice was exactly what I've been saying. Find one thing and devote at least 6 months to working it. He suggested that a year was better. This kid isn't even 20 and he's making $400 a day marketing. I learned a lot just watching his 10-minute promo video.

    A long time ago I decided I could get up every day and do one of two things. I could look for walls or I could look for bridges. I decided to seek the bridges in most cases. And that's what I get most of the time.

    What do you look for?
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  • Profile picture of the author brittlesnc
    Kirakirafuwafuwa,

    I feel your pain about sales letters/sales pitches...don't even get me started on some of the garbage that can be found in the WSO section; but there are some good WSOs to be found as well...it just sometimes takes some time to weed through the garbage.

    But 1 thing you can do is if you see a WSO you like, check the person out...many of the best WSOs I've purchased were from people who were already contributing a great deal of excellent FREE info to the Warrior Forum already...

    The above is usually a good indication that if they're giving away great info for free usually the info their selling is even better...

    And more importantly like a few have already mentioned it is EXTREMELY important to do the work and focus on 1 method/business model...you accomplish nothing by being lazy and jumping from business model to business model...I've had to learn this the hard way unfortunately .
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