Being Out Priced By Third World Countries

78 replies
Howdy,

I do a lot of SEO work on freelancing sites , I normally have to charge a lot more than most people as 95% of people on there are from Third World Countries and can charge a lot less. Now , here comes the rant...

I mean , how can I compete with people charging $1 for SEO work it's stupid , and dam right annoying. I mean no disrespect to those people , as I've never meet and thus can't judge them. But it's really quite annoying , I'm trying my best here , trying the cheapest price per hour I can then some Kid comes a long with $1 an hour and i've been blown out the water.

It's stupid , and getting quite tedious now. I try to write the best cover letter I can , perhaps that's why a lot of people hire me , but still it's annoying.

Rant Over..

Comments?
#countries or #priced #world
  • Profile picture of the author nm5419
    I don't know where you've already looked for work, but try IT Outsourcing Eastern Europe | Freelancers and Freelance Jobs if you haven't already. That's a service that enforces a $3/hour minimum (shrugging shoulders over that!), and it appears to market to a US, UK, etc. clientele. It also appears to service a European freelancer workforce only.
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  • Profile picture of the author PatriciaJ
    I would be aiming to get clients offline who know nothing of cheap freelancing sites. Give them a top quality service and you may get referrals and be able to charge a decent rate.

    You could also put together a team of cheap workers to do some of the work and outsource them to others.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    There's a guy on this forum who grosses about a million dollars a year selling SEO services. How do you suppose he competes with the cheapies? In fact, there are thousands of SEO folks earning excellent money at it. What are they doing? The same goes for graphics, writing, Web design, product creation, etc.

    Why not make a study of people in the top end of the fields rather than ranting about the competition? Then do what they're doing. Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      There's a guy on this forum who grosses about a million dollars a year selling SEO services. How do you suppose he competes with the cheapies? In fact, there are thousands of SEO folks earning excellent money at it. What are they doing? The same goes for graphics, writing, Web design, product creation, etc.

      Why not make a study of people in the top end of the fields rather than ranting about the competition? Then do what they're doing. Good luck.
      I missed that out in my Thread , I do earn decent money but it just annoys me when that happens , (In the Original Post)
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  • Profile picture of the author BlackRob
    Sadly we live in strange times I'm afraid. I would recommend the site nm5419 recommended, at least a minimum of $3.00 per hour is better than the ludicrous $1.00 per hour.

    One factor you should always think of is how good is the work that these people do? If the answer is every $1.00 per hour job is not good enough, then you may well get the job as people will be willing to pay for results.

    Just my twopennorth.

    Rob.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

    some Kid comes a long with $1 an hour and i've been blown out the water.
    Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

    how can I compete with people charging $1 for SEO work it's stupid
    Agreed. You can't.

    But, with respect, you're the one choosing to market your services in such an international (i.e. low priced) market, you know?

    Living in the West (and in one of the very most expensive parts of the whole of the "West"), as you do, you're never going to be well paid by doing piecemeal bits of SEO work which people on Fiverr (or wherever) are also offering. It's just not a valuable skill, in an international market.

    The long-term answer is not to scratch around here, there and everywhere in desperate search of clients willing to pay $3/$4 per hour instead of $1: it's to acquire and develop a more valuable skill set.

    Similarly, it's no good for a writer complaining that people won't pay more than $5 for an "article". Those wanting to earn money from article-writing need to develop the skill set needed to sell "niche syndication articles" for $100, rather than "article directory articles" for $5. Or they need to start training to be copywriters, or whatever. There's no future in selling $5 articles because the customers don't know how to use them, anyway, and their own businesses usually don't survive enough for them to come back for more and pay $10.

    The "annoying nuisance" of which you (understandably) complain is only ever going to get "worse" (of course, for many people in the Philippines it's actually "better"), rather than better. I'm "just saying".
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  • Profile picture of the author ArwenTaylor
    In all honesty, you are not competing for the same customers. I used to worry about people who charge $2 for a 500 word article. The reality is, people who write for those rates typically produce low-quality work that does not convert very well. Eventually, people who are serious about their Internet marketing will either 1) quit and complain to everyone who listens that Internet marketing doesn't work or 2) realize they need better quality content and will pay the higher price for a quality writer.

    It's the same with SEO and the other myriad services offered online. Many (not all!) will do low quality work for those prices and the people who paid for them will either go away or pay for higher quality work.

    In any case, you are going after the wrong clientele. Look for and try to attract clientele who realizes that if they want results, they need to pay for a true expert and not waste (yes waste!) money learning the hard way that cheap rates gets cheap results.
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Originally Posted by ArwenTaylor View Post

      In all honesty, you are not competing for the same customers. I used to worry about people who charge $2 for a 500 word article. The reality is, people who write for those rates typically produce low-quality work those does not convert very well. Eventually, people who are serious about their Internet marketing will either 1) quit and complain to everyone who listens that Internet marketing doesn't work or 2) realize they need better quality content and will pay the higher price for a quality writer.

      It's the same with SEO and the other myriad services offered online. Many (not all!) will do low quality work for those prices and the people who paid for them will either go away or pay for higher quality work.

      In any case, you are going after the wrong clientele. Look for and try to attract clientele who realizes that if they want results, they need to pay for a true expert and not waste (yes waste!) money learning the hard way that cheap rates gets cheap results.
      I do , I have a few good clients that have even said that to me. But when I get a application denied because someone offered $1 per hour it makes me rage so hard.
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      • Profile picture of the author ArwenTaylor
        Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

        I do , I have a few good clients that have even said that to me. But when I get a application denied because someone offered $1 per hour it makes me rage so hard.
        Well, just think of it as making room for that client who will recognize the value of what you do and will pay the price for it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

        when I get a application denied because someone offered $1 per hour it makes me rage so hard.
        I hear you, I promise. But this is unproductive.

        You're seeing the problem, when that happens, as being "Some kid in the Philippines has undercut me on price". That isn't the problem. The problem is that you're choosing to sell a service which is also available elsewhere for $1. Sorry - harsh words but perfectly true.
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        • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I hear you, I promise. But this is unproductive.

          You're seeing the problem, when that happens, as being "Some kid in the Philippines has undercut me on price". That isn't the problem. The problem is that you're choosing to sell a service which is also available elsewhere for $1. Sorry - harsh words but perfectly true.
          No , That means it's cheaper for them to live in there countries , here in the UK it cost's a lot more things such a food , rent and so on...
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          • Profile picture of the author nm5419
            Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

            No , That means it's cheaper for them to live in there countries , here in the UK it cost's a lot more things such a food , rent and so on...
            You're correct, and you're experiencing a common phenomenon of working within a global medium. Every industry is affected by it online and offline, not just SEO. So take the advice that makes sense for your trade and just move on.

            Good Lord!
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

            No , That means it's cheaper for them to live in there countries , here in the UK it cost's a lot more things such a food , rent and so on...
            You say "No", but you're making exactly my point.

            That's why you're never going to make any real money, in your "real terms", by selling a service which people can buy elsewhere for a fraction of what you're selling it for. What you need to do instead is sell a service that they can't buy elsewhere for a fraction of your price.

            Your problem is that your skill set isn't a valuable enough one to be profitable/sustainable in the very expensive part of the world in which you live.

            If you're selling a service online (which is clearly what we're talking about, in an internet marketing forum), then with your South-of-England cost of living to think about, you're never going to be able to compete on price with a kid in the Philippines. Nor can you prevent your potential customers from having access to his services, given that - by definition - they have internet connections.

            Where you might be able to compete with him is in acquiring and developing more valuable skills which he doesn't have.
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            • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              You say "No", but you're making exactly my point.

              That's why you're never going to make any real money, in your "real terms", by selling a service which people can buy elsewhere for a fraction of what you're selling it for. What you need to do instead is sell a service that they can't buy elsewhere for a fraction of your price.

              Your problem is that your skill set isn't a valuable enough one to be profitable/sustainable in the very expensive part of the world in which you live.

              If you're selling a service online (which is clearly what we're talking about, in an internet marketing forum), then with your South-of-England cost of living to think about, you're never going to be able to compete on price with a kid in the Philippines. Nor can you prevent your potential customers from having access to his services, given that - by definition - they have internet connections.

              Where you might be able to compete with him is in acquiring and developing more valuable skills which he doesn't have.
              I get what you mean there , but I have been trying this. But I don't even do the work , I just outsource it all.
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            • Profile picture of the author raiko
              I'll chime in and mention that the way you market your services can help as well. I outsource articles and SEO at times and the biggest problem I have is finding good VALUE. I look for the lowest price at which I can get the quality I desire. I usually need higher quality work then I can find at $5.00 an article or $3 an hour. The problem I have is that it is easy to find the lowest price product that is bad quality and it's fairly easy to find something that is far too expensive for me. But, it is very difficult to find a reasonably priced writer or SEO'er. If you can market yourself effectively in that middle ground then I think you can find a lot of work and make decent money as well. As your reputation grows so will your clientele.

              I actually haven't seen anyone working for $1 an hour yet. I would be afraid to hire them anyway. What quality would I get for a buck?
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          • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
            Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

            No , That means it's cheaper for them to live in there countries , here in the UK it cost's a lot more things such a food , rent and so on...
            Interesting sentiment...you could just..

            MOVE
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            • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
              Originally Posted by Barry Unruh View Post

              Interesting sentiment...you could just..

              MOVE
              I don't think that's a valid comment to make , nor productive for anyone...
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              • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                Banned
                Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

                I don't think that's a valid comment to make , nor productive for anyone...
                Not entirely true. People move all the time to areas that they are more financially capable to live in.
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      • Profile picture of the author sailor4528
        Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

        I do , I have a few good clients that have even said that to me. But when I get a application denied because someone offered $1 per hour it makes me rage so hard.
        I don't do online work, but have sold and delivered lots of consultancy work (including software service) in the past. Trying to win against low-ballers is difficult unless you are in their market.

        As another poster said, $1 an hour is a lot of money to some folks. So,

        - if you're going to compete with them, then offer products and services to match - i.e. cr#p quality, machine generated.

        If not, then

        - restrict your reach,
        - qualify your prospects hard,
        - spend more time marketing (that is, justifying why you charge more) -
        - differentiating your service, over deliver (what's cheap for you and valuable for them)
        - deal with fewer customers at higher rates.

        Pay peanuts, get monkeys - that's the saying. Open any business up to globalisation and prices go down. It's funny though isn't it, that with cheap Indian and Chinese autos, people still buy Mercedes? And people still pay the rates that Accenture charges for Java skills - as a f'rinstance.

        Don't look back in anger, look forward with vigour and a determination to shape your future.

        That's my preaching over for today. Sorry if it sounds condescending, but hey, it's Sunday!

        Oh, I just remembered about specialising...a consultant is someone who knows more and more about less and less, until he/she knows everything about nothing...um..where's square one again...
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        Take a break - entertain yourself with a great Kindle techno-thriller! Gate of Tears by James Marinero. Action, intrigue, naval and aerial conflict in one of the world's strategic oil chokepoints. Up to the minute and beyond...Video Trailer

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  • Profile picture of the author Toasted75
    You shouldn't be anywhere near $3 an hour, lol... if you think you need to compete with them, you need to re-look at your business model. Focus on quality services, attract the right clientele (and freelance sites may not be the right location to find them if everyone there is looking at price alone)... definitely start looking for clients in your local area - the offline forum on here offers some excellent advice for that (and many local business keywords are easier to rank for too). If you've got a track record already, you're ahead of the game... don't be afraid to charge what you're worth (and then add more too it because you're probably still under charging).
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    • Profile picture of the author ArwenTaylor
      Originally Posted by Toasted75 View Post

      (and freelance sites may not be the right location to find them if everyone there is looking at price alone)
      That's true. Freelance sites like Odesk and Elance attract people who are looking for cheap workers. They are not the best places to look for clients.
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Originally Posted by Toasted75 View Post

      You shouldn't be anywhere near $3 an hour, lol... if you think you need to compete with them, you need to re-look at your business model. Focus on quality services, attract the right clientele (and freelance sites may not be the right location to find them if everyone there is looking at price alone)... definitely start looking for clients in your local area - the offline forum on here offers some excellent advice for that (and many local business keywords are easier to rank for too). If you've got a track record already, you're ahead of the game... don't be afraid to charge what you're worth (and then add more too it because you're probably still under charging).
      Please , I wish people would understand me correctly... I DON'T DO THE WORK FOR $4 I charge around $7-$11 depending on the project.

      Thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author Toasted75
        Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

        Please , I wish people would understand me correctly... I DON'T DO THE WORK FOR $4 I charge around $7-$11 depending on the project.
        Thanks
        I don't think you quite understand the advice you're getting here... $7-$11 an hour isn't exactly going to give you a viable business - you may as well just offer $3 an hour... it doesn't really change that much.

        Unless you've got a contract that guarantees you 8hrs/day 5 days per week - you can't hope to earn a living in UK/US/Aus etc. I would suggest that you need to start looking around the $50/hr mark and while it'll no doubt be pretty obvious that the freelance sites aren't going to get you a lot of work at that price, you do have other options that will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Power Solutions
    As a programmer I have faced pretty much the same dilemma. So most of my contract work has come from offline local clients. If you don't have the offline option then start out charging low, provide a better quality service, and build up your reputation. With a reputation for quality work you will of course be able to charge more.
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  • Profile picture of the author nm5419
    @simplybeastz, you might want to create an account at vWorker as well. At least there, you can filter out low paying jobs and interact with clients who pay over a specified amount. That includes both fixed-fee and per-hour jobs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Vlad Romanov
    Like others mentioned, select the right buyers. For example people write articles for 5$, I'm fine with that because I can go on constant content and in half an hour write an article that sells for 30$... That guy who writes articles for 5$ will be paid 5$ for the rest of his life... I can charge more and get contracts which will cut out the commission constant content takes...

    Good luck,
    Vlad
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  • Profile picture of the author nm5419
    simplybeastz, are you selling SEO services or articles???
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    I'm going to get all philosophical and metaphysical on you right now. Here goes. Ralph Waldo Emmerson said: The only thing that can grow is the thing you give energy to. Thirteen words. Thirteen very powerful words when strung together the way they are.

    Here's another one. You can seek walls or you can seek bridges. I don't know if I heard that somewhere of if I came up with it myself.

    One more from Earl Nightingale, co-founder of one of the largest personal publ;ishers in the world. You become what you think about most of the time. A lot of people claim to have said that first but it was Earl.

    So... whatcha gonna do? Rant or be successful?
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      I'm going to get all philosophical and metaphysical on you right now. Here goes. Ralph Waldo Emmerson said: The only thing that can grow is the thing you give energy to. Thirteen words. Thirteen very powerful words when strung together the way they are.

      Here's another one. You can seek walls or you can seek bridges. I don't know if I heard that somewhere of if I came up with it myself.

      One more from Earl Nightingale, co-founder of one of the largest personal publ;ishers in the world. You become what you think about most of the time. A lot of people claim to have said that first but it was Earl.

      So... whatcha gonna do? Rant or be successful?
      Both of them...
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    I can understand your concern, however you must accept 2 things.

    1) The USD compared to other currencies. In some countries with $100 USD they can feed their family for months with that kind of money. So even if they are on FIVERR and do a few gigs a day they can live very comfortably.


    2) People get what they pay for normally. They know it costs more to get a decent job done. A company I know here in oz pays $5k a month for SEO but they are getting much more than someon who pays say $100 a month.


    Do not worry just offer a good service, and make sure you are offering plenty of value, then you will not lose really.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    I would suggest you go for higher end clients and pitch your work as being superior. I say this because I once spent $30 dollars at once on Fiverr (had to paid some punk kid 6 times) and he ended up using xrummer to send out spammy backlinks to porn sites all over the world.

    This was a costly mistake to one of my sites - one that I will never do gain. Now I much rather pay a lot more to get better service with people that know what the heck they are doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
      Originally Posted by Christiani View Post

      I would suggest you go for higher end clients and pitch your work as being superior. I say this because I once spent $30 dollars at once on Fiverr (had to paid some punk kid 6 times) and he ended up using xrummer to send out spammy backlinks to porn sites all over the world.

      This was a costly mistake to one of my sites - one that I will never do gain. Now I much rather pay a lot more to get better service with people that know what the heck they are doing.
      Wow! Thanks this is the one of the best post's in this thread. Not just someone telling me how bad I'm doing and why my opinion is wrong.

      Thanks
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      • Profile picture of the author ArwenTaylor
        Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

        Wow! Thanks this is the one of the best post's in this thread. Not just someone telling me how bad I'm doing and why my opinion is wrong.

        Thanks
        I don't think anyone is trying to tell you that your opinion is wrong. I think your opinion is perfectly valid. However, I think each person in this thread, and in their own way, is trying to tell you that are approaching the problem from the wrong angle.

        There is ALWAYS going to be someone out there who is going to offer the same service at a cheaper rate than you. That "kid" who is doing SEO for $1.00 per hour is probably competing against someone who can do the same work for $0.75 per hour, and that person is competing against someone who can do it for $0.50 per hour.

        The reality is, you cannot compete on price anymore. As Alexa & nm5419 pointed out earlier, that is the consequence of working in a global economy. Instead, focus on using the energy you are expending being upset about cheaper competition on something more productive; like looking for better clients or learning a skill that can earn you more money.

        Instead of banging your head against the brick wall that will never budge, look for a bridge to the place where you make the money you want.

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        • Profile picture of the author nm5419
          Originally Posted by ArwenTaylor View Post

          As Alexa pointed out earlier, that is the consequence of working in a global economy.
          Corrected: "As nm5419 pointed out earlier, that is the consequence of working in a global economy."
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          • Profile picture of the author ArwenTaylor
            Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

            Corrected: "As nm5419 pointed out earlier, that is the consequence of working in a global economy."
            Fixed it. Both of you pretty much said the same thing in different ways.
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            • Profile picture of the author nm5419
              Originally Posted by ArwenTaylor View Post

              Fixed it. Both of you pretty much said the same thing in different ways.
              Thanks, but our perspectives are quite different. Alexa told the OP s/he's basically wasting his/her time working in the SEO business because of global competition.

              (I told him/her where and how to get higher paying clients.)
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                Alexa told the OP s/he's basically wasting his/her time working in the SEO business
                My own guess is that you'll find that the OP, Arwen and anyone else reading the thread are perfectly well aware that I said no such thing at all, and you're the only one who really misunderstood (or chose to). There are plenty of highly successful SEO companies in London, after all. :rolleyes:
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                • Profile picture of the author nm5419
                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  My own guess is that you'll find that the OP, Arwen and anyone else reading the thread are perfectly well aware that I said no such thing at all, and you're the only one who really misunderstood (or chose to). There are plenty of highly successful SEO companies in London, after all. :rolleyes:
                  • "But, with respect, you're the one choosing to market your services in such an international (i.e. low priced) market, you know?"
                  • "Living in the West (and in one of the very most expensive parts of the whole of the "West"), as you do, you're never going to be well paid by doing piecemeal bits of SEO work which people on Fiverr (or wherever) are also offering. It's just not a valuable skill, in an international market."
                  • "You're seeing the problem, when that happens, as being 'Some kid in the Philippines has undercut me on price'. That isn't the problem. The problem is that you're choosing to sell a service which is also available elsewhere for $1. Sorry - harsh words but perfectly true."
                  • "That's why you're never going to make any real money, in your 'real terms', by selling a service which people can buy elsewhere for a fraction of what you're selling it for. What you need to do instead is sell a service that they can't buy elsewhere for a fraction of your price."
                  • "Your problem is that your skill set isn't a valuable enough one to be profitable/sustainable in the very expensive part of the world in which you live."

                  Oops! Those statements must have come from a different Alexa in this thread. My bad. :rolleyes:
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                    Oops! Those statements must have come from a different Alexa in this thread. My bad. :rolleyes:
                    Actually, her statements are correct but you just don't understand what she was talking about. That is ok, but it makes you look foolish when you try to tell her what she meant when you clearly have no clue.

                    If you really read what she said, she said the OP has nothing unique to offer. He offers the same value as the 3rd world worker. In fact, he hires the 3rd world worker to do what work he does get.

                    That says he is not selling a unique service. He is bitching about losing work because he has no unique selling point and his business model just plain sucks.

                    Clients are finding out he offers nothing of value when they can get the same service from the 3rd world person that actually does the work.

                    Now he is jumping up and down crying like a baby because other people understand he offers no value.
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                    • Profile picture of the author nm5419
                      Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                      Actually, her statements are correct but you just don't understand what she was talking about. That is ok, but it makes you look foolish when you try to tell her what she meant when you clearly have no clue.

                      If you really read what she said, she said the OP has nothing unique to offer. He offers the same value as the 3rd world worker. In fact, he hires the 3rd world worker to do what work he does get.

                      That says he is not selling a unique service. He is bitching about losing work because he has no unique selling point and his business model just plain sucks.

                      Clients are finding out he offers nothing of value when they can get the same service from the 3rd world person that actually does the work.

                      Now he is jumping up and down crying like a baby because other people understand he offers no value.
                      Hi. I just created a new rule for myself -- and that is to respond to posts that stay in context with the argument/debate at hand. I simply hate it when people leave out critical components of a conversation just so they can fumble their way to a point. I won't be addressing any of your points above as a result.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Tom B
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                        Hi. I just created a new rule for myself -- and that is to respond to posts that stay in context with the argument/debate at hand. I simply hate it when people leave out critical components of a conversation just so they can fumble their way to a point. I won't be addressing any of your points above as a result.
                        Don't be too hard on yourself. It is pretty apparent you have no understanding of what is being discussed and you decided to troll instead.

                        Luckily for us, we don't really put much thought into what non people on this forum say. You have no name, you are trolling reputable people in this thread and you are displaying a trollish website in your sig.

                        Maybe you should look at enacting more rules if you want people to actually take what you say serious...

                        BTW, I also sent Alton your url to see if he would enjoy seeing his name used in that manner. I know Alton and that would really surprise me.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Joe Mobley
                      Bingo! You beat me to it Thomas.

                      What is amazing is the amount of great information in this thread yet some can not see it. Oh well...

                      Joe Mobley


                      Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

                      Actually, her statements are correct but you just don't understand what she was talking about. That is ok, but it makes you look foolish when you try to tell her what she meant when you clearly have no clue.

                      If you really read what she said, she said the OP has nothing unique to offer. He offers the same value as the 3rd world worker. In fact, he hires the 3rd world worker to do what work he does get.

                      That says he is not selling a unique service. He is bitching about losing work because he has no unique selling point and his business model just plain sucks.

                      Clients are finding out he offers nothing of value when they can get the same service from the 3rd world person that actually does the work.

                      Now he is jumping up and down crying like a baby because other people understand he offers no value.
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                      • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
                        I would just like to add , the main reason why I got into the SEO Business is because I was at a conference some day and the Guy who was speaking owned his Own SEO Conference ; I was shocked by home much he was charging for very little so that's why I came in.

                        I think I miss delivered my thread. By no means am I complaining at the money I'm making , it's good money. I usually get 2-3 clients a week , which is pretty good for oDesk. It's just on the rare occasions where posters pick the $1 prices instead , I just think " Oh Golly , this posters going to waste his money and cry back to Odesk in a couple of weeks." This just makes me annoyed.

                        I see no reason , why you need to come at me like this. It's fine argue with my opinion , but to actually direct it at me. Is unacceptable.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                    Oops! Those statements must have come from a different Alexa in this thread.
                    Let's not get ahead of ourselves, here: your comprehension-level appears not to be quite advanced enough to be able to pull off "sarcasm", I'm afraid. Those statements all came from me, as you're well aware. What you seem to be the only one failing to appreciate is that they don't mean that I told the OP he was wasting his time in the SEO business because of his location. I simply didn't say that. There are plenty of successful SEO companies in the South of England, after all - as I mentioned.

                    I said (and still say) that he'd clearly be better off acquiring and developing a more valuable skill set.

                    You alone apparently chose to misinterpret that as necessarily meaning "an entirely non-SEO skill set". :rolleyes:

                    Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                    My bad.
                    You got that bit right - just literally rather than sarcastically as you intended!
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                    • Profile picture of the author nm5419
                      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                      You alone apparently chose to misinterpret that as necessarily meaning "an entirely non-SEO skill set". :rolleyes:
                      Eh - tell it to someone who cares. I don't "do" back-peddlers.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                        Corrected: "As nm5419 pointed out earlier, that is the consequence of working in a global economy."
                        Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                        • "But, with respect, you're the one choosing to market your services in such an international (i.e. low priced) market, you know?"
                        • "Living in the West (and in one of the very most expensive parts of the whole of the "West"), as you do, you're never going to be well paid by doing piecemeal bits of SEO work which people on Fiverr (or wherever) are also offering. It's just not a valuable skill, in an international market."
                        • "You're seeing the problem, when that happens, as being 'Some kid in the Philippines has undercut me on price'. That isn't the problem. The problem is that you're choosing to sell a service which is also available elsewhere for $1. Sorry - harsh words but perfectly true."
                        • "That's why you're never going to make any real money, in your 'real terms', by selling a service which people can buy elsewhere for a fraction of what you're selling it for. What you need to do instead is sell a service that they can't buy elsewhere for a fraction of your price."
                        • "Your problem is that your skill set isn't a valuable enough one to be profitable/sustainable in the very expensive part of the world in which you live."

                        Oops! Those statements must have come from a different Alexa in this thread. My bad. :rolleyes:
                        Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                        Hi. I just created a new rule for myself -- and that is to respond to posts that stay in context with the argument/debate at hand. I simply hate it when people leave out critical components of a conversation just so they can fumble their way to a point. I won't be addressing any of your points above as a result.
                        Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                        Eh - tell it to someone who cares. I don't "do" back-peddlers.
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                      • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
                        You're not in SEO if you're peddling Fiverr gigs. There are multimillion pound SEO agencies galore in London and they're not selling Fiverr gigs.

                        Who buys Fiverr giggs? People with no money.

                        People with money understand that cheap is usually not good. A low price is often a deterrent.

                        A huge part of making money in SEO is in customer relations. The average marketing executive has no idea about SEO and they need to feel sure of what you're doing and they need to feel smart that they've found you.

                        So you can do linkbuilding and target a certain demographic of semi-clued in webshop owners and small biz or you can do full scale SEO with lots of customer contact.

                        Affiliate markers are the last people you'd like as customers as they're so used to $17 products and free stuff that they think $300 a month is extreme!

                        So, as has been suggested already, you need to develop skills beyond being a middleman if you wan't to make real money of SEO.
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                      • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                        Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                        Eh - tell it to someone who cares. I don't "do" back-peddlers.
                        Are you like 12 years old or something?
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                      • Profile picture of the author tehnolife
                        Banned
                        Come on...if you do these kind of posts you only hurt your reputation and this doesn't help you further.

                        This is a debate forum...you have to understand that before you start posting and acting like a 10 years old kid.

                        Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                        Eh - tell it to someone who cares. I don't "do" back-peddlers.
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            • Profile picture of the author ArwenTaylor
              I just want to make it clear, when I said this:

              Originally Posted by ArwenTaylor View Post

              Fixed it. Both of you pretty much said the same thing in different ways.
              I meant that both Alexa and nm5419 basically told the OP that the consequences of selling in a global market is that you must compete with other people who can sell their services for cheaper. That's is all.

              And to be fair, Alexa is right about it being difficult to make a good living in Western countries like the U.K. and the U.S. selling low-priced products and services. Typically, the cost of living in these places are much higher than those in countries like India et al. In order to pay your bills selling low-priced items, you will have to sell a lot of them. This can mean a lot of time and energy spent just making ends meet and why most people in this thread recommend going after clients who are willing and able to pay for higher-priced services.

              Also, if you are selling a product that someone can get somewhere else for cheaper, then you have to increase the perceived value of the product you are selling if you want to command the higher price. That's just common business sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    creating any business that competes mainly on price only is very tough, much less a service oriented business that competes for customers largely on price.

    i would suggest looking for ways to increase the perceived value of your services to a point which makes customers pay a fair wage for your services.

    but at the end of the day, you must realize that you will lose some jobs to people who use cut rate bidding to get jobs. there will always be people who only look for the cheapest price, there is nothing you can do about that.

    and speaking as someone who has done business online a long time, more often than not, you really dont want the jobs from those bottom of the barrel clients. they usually complain more, and dont really understand why how business works, which leads to all sorts of troubles.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Wilson
    You can be better than that kid. But even that can be tough.

    You'll need to customize your offer so it will give more value and you'll have a reason for higher price.
    Get regular customers by over bringing and giving as much value as you can.
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  • Profile picture of the author x3xsolxdierx3x
    There is good, effective, SEO and not-so-good, ineffective, SEO. It's almost become a bit of a marketing catch word that everyone has jumped onto the bandwagon of--even people who have never had success in SEO before in their lives, want to suddenly sell products regarding it. GOOD SEO is worth more than $1/hour, no matter the country, however, it's up to you to prove your worth somehow. As recommended, look at what others are doing, and learn from them.

    Prove that you can make me $100 a day, and I'll gladly pay you $10-$50/day. Even $75 would be a bargain.
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  • Profile picture of the author ben341
    If you cannot provide something of additional value than those charging such a low amount then you are looking in the wrong place for business. The day that every business owner realises they can get next-to-nothing labour from such sites is the day the West runs out of money and we all starve. Either prove you're worth the extra, which isn't difficult, or look elsewhere for work. The best advice I ever heard was "raise your prices to raise your income". It is far easier to find 1/10 businesses willing to pay $20 an hour than it would be to find 10/10 willing to pay $1 hr if you look in the right place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    SimplyBeastz, just keep finding ways to get better and better at what you do and before you know it you'll break through that threshold when you least expect it.
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    • Profile picture of the author packerfan
      You need to take a few minutes and come up a USP for your service.

      Your competition is competing on price. So you need something else. Could be service, speed, whatever.

      Then you need to market yourself differently. Don't look for clients on Odesk and Fiverr.

      Mail some post cards to local businesses, go knock on some doors, try PPC, etc. Set up a professional looking site, sell professional services to professionals.

      Or just keep whining because your competition is cheaper. The choice is yours.
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      • Profile picture of the author packerfan
        And something actually useful to help.

        Go opt-in on this page. Jay Abraham - Marketing Genius

        There's more free information there than you can absorb in 3 months. Read the first book. You'll instantly think about your business differently.

        And it's all free. Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Jay in any way.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nexstair
      Here is the best possible suggestion: Most of the people across North America and Europe do not prefer to work with overseas companies or individual.Go and target those people.If they lean toward less price then outsource and get your commission on it.If you give your people good rates than they would certainly prefer you.

      Hope it helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author copywriter
      I have full-time employees in the Philippines. This year I flew there and spoke at 12 different universities on the topic of Outsourcing.

      Was interviewed on TV about it in Iloilo City

      Have been there 5 times in the last 5 years and... I don't know of ANYONE who can do SEO in the Philippines for $1 an hour.

      FYI my guys are on $500 a month minimum.
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      • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
        Originally Posted by copywriter View Post

        I have full-time employees in the Philippines. This year I flew there and spoke at 12 different universities on the topic of Outsourcing.

        Was interviewed on TV about it in Iloilo City

        Have been there 5 times in the last 5 years and... I don't know of ANYONE who can do SEO in the Philippines for $1 an hour.

        FYI my guys are on $500 a month minimum.
        I'll try and find a link , but have to go out. I'll post it later.
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    • Profile picture of the author Azarna
      Businesses outsource to third world companies to save on overheads.

      Western economies are in a downwards spiral.

      I don't suppose many businesses are thinking 'I will stop this and use my own coutrymen to help our economy'.
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  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    As my Nan used to say "good things ain't cheap and cheap things ain't good"

    Jason
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  • Profile picture of the author chrislangley
    In these scenarios, once they see your reputation and a list of satisfied customers, they usually stick with the trusted guys than someone offering a very cheap rate, but it takes time to build such a reputation
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  • Profile picture of the author absolutelee
    Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

    Howdy,

    I do a lot of SEO work on freelancing sites , I normally have to charge a lot more than most people as 95% of people on there are from Third World Countries and can charge a lot less. Now , here comes the rant...

    I mean , how can I compete with people charging $1 for SEO work it's stupid , and dam right annoying. I mean no disrespect to those people , as I've never meet and thus can't judge them. But it's really quite annoying , I'm trying my best here , trying the cheapest price per hour I can then some Kid comes a long with $1 an hour and i've been blown out the water.

    It's stupid , and getting quite tedious now. I try to write the best cover letter I can , perhaps that's why a lot of people hire me , but still it's annoying.

    Rant Over..

    Comments?
    Don't compete. By that I mean add more value to your service. Also, if you're doing seo for offline businesses they've already been burned once by cheap seo. Position yourself as the seo expert who can actually get the job done right.
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Luis
    Banned
    There's always a market for expensive vintage French wines, just as there's always a market for cheap California wines.

    Same goes for anything in the market, including SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author golf69
    Yes you definitely move..haha
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  • Profile picture of the author Rukshan
    Now we live in a global village where we connect each other
    That's why you need to focus Offline marketing methods to target more local customers. They are the group who pay enough amount that depends on the location.
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    Stop! - would lend the keys to your Mercedes to a "kid who works for $1 hr"?

    Think about it this way - most people who post a job on the freelancer boards are considering placing one of their most prized possessions in the hands of a person they've never met.
    I recently posted a gig on Elance for some coding work on my main money site, there's no way I'd give my passwords to some kid who offers services for $1.00/hr - no matter where he lives.

    I want a professional, well written proposal, from a USA based company with a good Elance reputation. The hourly rate is inconsequential - I'm placing my livelihood in the hands of someone I've never met - if they crash my site, even for 24 hrs, what will that cost me?

    I'd say it's even more important with SEO than with coding. Broken code can be fixed, or a backup restored. Bad SEO is hard to undo.

    Why not let the client know via your quote that you're of the highest integrity, you stand by your work, you have a great reputation and you are HERE in the USA and ready to work for a sensible rate.

    Just a thought.
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