What Would You Rather Have Lots of Traffic & an CRAP Site or the Reverse?

42 replies
Today's no brainer question is ...

What Would You Rather Have Lots of Traffic & an CRAP Site or the Reverse?

The reason I am asking of course is to provoke a thought for our newbie brothers and sisters on the forum.

TRAFFIC is everything in IM.

You can spend a ton of money and thousands of hours building a site and not make a bean if you have no visitors.

Of course you will need to build a site that converts. This is an essential part of the puzzle.

However the biggest SKILL you need is how to generate traffic period!

John
#crap #lots #reverse #site #traffic
  • Profile picture of the author BlackRob
    Give me the trafic, as a site can always be tweaked to get it right.

    You can always have the most beautiful site on earth, but without traffic, it will always be useless, as nobody will ever see it.

    This is why traffic is the holy grail of internet marketing, and why there are so many ebooks and products about this subject.

    Great post.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Traffic is king! Oh, no … wait… that's content….

    crap, which is it?

    On the one hand, you could be getting a ton of traffic and if your content is crap and doesn't convert, you might not make a dime.

    One the other hand, you could have the best converting website on the planet but if you get no traffic then you won't make a dime.

    I say they are both equally important BUT it's probably harder to learn how to get traffic than it is to learn how to make your site convert.

    Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Of course...if you throw a lot of adsense ads onto that crap site, you'll make a nice chunk of change when all those visitors try to escape. I doubt it is a sustainable model though.

    You take the amazing site with no traffic, figure out (or get someone to figure out) just why the heck no one is coming, and fix the problem. Easy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    Cashcow you actually made me laugh out loud ... good response

    You are of course correct about content being king i.e. we must have the correct content created to engage, retain, build and convert.

    However I would still swap out quality of content for more traffic if I had to choose.

    Traffic is a more better King

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author rrm
    Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

    TRAFFIC is everything in IM. John
    Well, it's a huge piece of the IM puzzle but it's not everything.

    It's like my Christmas tree. I can have it all decked out, lights, balls, and other doodads, even the angel topper. Beautiful tree with lots of presents on the skirt. But if nobody comes to my house, what good is it, really, except that I like looking at it. It gets me "in the mood" for Christmas.

    On the other hand, if I have a dried up stick stuck in a pot of dirt on a little bitty table and no presents under the tree, and lots of family and friends who come over and find no gifts to give and no food to eat, I guarantee they won't stay long. "Well, we gotta go, Bub, see you next year!"

    The tree and hospitality (or lack thereof) didn't "convert" many friends.

    How 'bout this: a tree, not too fancy but with some gifts, and some good food in the kitchen, a time of fellowship with everyone who comes in and it will be a great time for host and guest.

    Ron
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  • Profile picture of the author medosabry
    I choose both LOL a lot of traffic and a highly converting offer. But if I have to choose especially if I am a newbie is going for less traffic but with a highly converting offer as many newbies give up if they didn't see results in the first two or three month so we need to show them that it works and all they have to do after that is to get more traffic whether by targeting keywords that gets higher search volume or by repeating the same process they have made many times tell they make the amount of money they want....
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    This isn't an 'either or' question. A pretty, well written site is great. But if no one sees it, you got squat. Same with traffic. You can send millions of people to a site but if it's ugly and poorly written, you got squat. You need both.

    I would say though, traffic has the edge because if you have enough traffic you will convert a tiny percentage of visitors. And even if you have the best site in the world, without traffic, you've got nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      It's kind of funny...

      All y'all are talking about pretty, well-written, high-converting sites versus crap sites.

      But y'all talk about 'traffic' as if it's something that doesn't have the same good quality/poor quality spectrum.

      If I had to rank the combinations:

      1) Good quality site with oodles of well-targeted, motivated traffic. This one is indeed the no-brainer.

      2) Less-than-optimum site with the same traffic as above. If the match is good, some will convert and testing is likely to yield good results.

      3) Optimum site with less-than optimum traffic. Again, some will convert and traffic sources can be added/optimized.

      4) Crap site with crap traffic. Roll the dice, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

      5) Crap site with no traffic. Who cares?
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      • Profile picture of the author KenJ
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post


        1) Good quality site with oodles of well-targeted, motivated traffic. This one is indeed the no-brainer.

        2) Less-than-optimum site with the same traffic as above. If the match is good, some will convert and testing is likely to yield good results.

        3) Optimum site with less-than optimum traffic. Again, some will convert and traffic sources can be added/optimized.

        4) Crap site with crap traffic. Roll the dice, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

        5) Crap site with no traffic. Who cares?
        That's some list John. Thank You

        I have one site that is in the number one category. It makes me money.
        I have a few sites in the 2 -4 categories. Sometimes almost by accident they make sales. Just occasionally I have a very good money day and think I am THE MAN at this.

        I do not want to discuss how many category 5 sites I have wasted my time on.

        Kenj
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Having the OP's choice of 2 is just crazy. Like saying - would you rather get hit with a hammer or knife - you would say "neither".

    Just because there are 2 choices doesn't mean that you have to choose one, especially when the situation makes all the difference.

    Even the word traffic has many different meanings.

    Do you want LOTS of traffic? Sure!

    Lots of bad traffic that doesn't do anything but soak up your bandwidth? - err, then no!

    Do you want a lovely site that people say is beautiful, but no-one ever buys from?

    Do you want a horrible site that seems to generate lots of sales?

    You can go on and on about what you want - but ultimately there are many factors and which one you want more of (or less of) depends entirely on what that means to your results.

    Many people create a product and then think it's just a matter of getting traffic and they'll make money. But then they choose a really poor traffic source and spend more than they make.

    Traffic is meaningless. Content is meaningless. What matters is - is your desired result being achieved? (i.e sales, sign-ups, branding etc..)

    If the answer is no - then the rest is irrelevant.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fun to Write
    I don't make crappy sites and I prefer targeted traffic to just any old type of traffic.

    So...my choice is to create a site that has quality content designed for a specific audience, that attracts as much TARGETED traffic as possible.
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    • Profile picture of the author Azarna
      A good site will naturally attract more traffic on its own merits.

      A crap site is unlikely to convert.

      Better little traffic but it all being paying customers than thousands of instant bouncers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    Amen at Fun to Write ... of course targetted traffic is the way to go.

    A good site will be designed to attract traffic but most marketers do offsite activity to promote traffic.

    The point I am making is that in my experience a lot of people just struggle to get traffic and definitely need to learn the skills.

    Otherwise no traffic = no money.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    I actually have both.

    And guess what converts most...is the Lots of traffic with a crappy site.

    But I must tell you that site is crappy, but has the best copy, actually hired a pro copywriter to help me which was a coulple hundred bucks, but it converts day after day...and week after week. If traffic is KING...then your COPY and how well you write WORDS i would say is the QUEEN.

    These are two elements that you must master to make money online.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
      Originally Posted by celente View Post

      I actually have both.

      And guess what converts most...is the Lots of traffic with a crappy site.

      But I must tell you that site is crappy, but has the best copy, actually hired a pro copywriter to help me which was a coulple hundred bucks, but it converts day after day...and week after week. If traffic is KING...then your COPY and how well you write WORDS i would say is the QUEEN.

      These are two elements that you must master to make money online.
      I really love this response as someone who is not really very technical it is good to know that a poor quality site with good copy on and lots of traffic can sell well.

      Any chance of the link

      John
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

    Today's no brainer question is ...

    What Would You Rather Have Lots of Traffic & an CRAP Site or the Reverse?

    The reason I am asking of course is to provoke a thought for our newbie brothers and sisters on the forum.

    TRAFFIC is everything in IM.

    You can spend a ton of money and thousands of hours building a site and not make a bean if you have no visitors.

    Of course you will need to build a site that converts. This is an essential part of the puzzle.

    However the biggest SKILL you need is how to generate traffic period!

    John
    Bollax, the skill is getting conversions, if you get that right traffic is the easy part.

    with conversions every man and his dog will want to send you traffic.

    PLUS with good conversions you can buy all the traffic you ever need.
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    • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      Bollax, the skill is getting conversions, if you get that right traffic is the easy part.

      with conversions every man and his dog will want to send you traffic.

      PLUS with good conversions you can buy all the traffic you ever need.
      Bingo.

      I was thinking just this thing.

      You don't need gobs of traffic to do well if you have a high conversion ratio.

      I'd rather have a great site that converts well on even minimal traffic. Now I am playing the best of both worlds.

      Traffic is easy actually - you simply buy it. I realize that's the bane of a lot of people's existence on the Warrior Forum. But the reality is that traffic is simply a cost of sales. You can either spend all kinds of time doing SEO, outsourcing SEO, or simply buy the traffic via PPC or CPA, or even buy the traffic via JVs by giving up a chunk of the sale.

      No matter how you slice it, you're paying for traffic in some fashion. So in the end, it's really the easiest part of the equasion.

      Building a value proposition and creating a site that converts really well... well that's a very different game. Even an ugly site that has great copy takes a specific skill.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    A site that converts but gets no traffic is dead in the water ... sorry have to disagree.
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    • Profile picture of the author golf69
      Conversions from great site is what you need...you can always pay for the traffic
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    • Profile picture of the author Dominis Marketing
      Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

      A site that converts but gets no traffic is dead in the water ... sorry have to disagree.
      No site that converts well will ever lose traffic. It converts well in the first place because there's traffic..The traffic coming to the site is the statistical basis for computing conversion.

      You can never say that a site converts well if you don't have any traffic whether paid or free...
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

      A site that converts but gets no traffic is dead in the water ... sorry have to disagree.
      That's because you're missing the point.

      There seems to be an undercurrent in IM that Traffic has to be free and come from spamming the internet with links to your site, and that therefore you will inevitably get a fair amount of 'untargeted' (or useless) traffic which doesn't help you.

      But that this is the price you pay for having this need for traffic.

      Rob Puddy is absolutely right - and it's the reason why many IMers struggle.

      You think you need to understand SEO or 'Traffic generation' in order to make sales.

      The reality is - you can just buy traffic. Not just any traffic but laser targeted traffic which you can turn on and off like a tap.

      Because so many people want their traffic for free, they wrap themselves around the free traffic axle and waste a lot of time worrying and focusing on all the wrong things.

      Traffic is the easiest part of the whole equation.

      Connecting with your visitors and converting those visitors into customers is the bit you can't always get right quickly. Ultimately as long as you test and track and then constantly improve your conversion process and you have a decent value chain so that your customers get lots of value and you get lots of opportunities for revenue - it's all good.

      When you think of your visitors as a wallet and you want your traffic for free - then you will always struggle.
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  • Profile picture of the author MattCatania
    If it's targeted traffic then send it all my way! I'll direct it through my squeeze page, onto my list where I can create mouth-watering value for each person whilst building a strong relationship. This will pay off in long-term
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  • Profile picture of the author AlexRyan
    I would take traffic of course and then change the website to suit my conversion ration better. If that is cheating then whoops. But no traffic cant convert by definition.
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  • Profile picture of the author JerrickYeoh
    If i have no choice to pick of it . I will go with poor website and with lot of traffic.
    Poor website yet lot of people search and looking for.
    If you have a nice website and do not have traffic . That mean you only do it for yourself .
    Everything we show in website just because we would like to share something to others.
    That the main purpose. Traffic is the one able to generate income and not nice website with no traffic.
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    • Profile picture of the author UncleDearest
      I guess the traffic if I have to choose but I've learned that TARGETED traffic is worth it's weight in gold! When I started focusing on more targeted keywords I lost over half of my traffic but my sales tripled. I love it! Less work, more organized and precise stats. My sites don't look like total crap, but they aren't fancy either. When I stopped worrying about how fancy they should be I started getting more done and making more money. I kinda started focusing on both at the same time, the targeting and no more fretting about the way the sites looked.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    @AndyHenry I humble myself and accept the point you make here.

    The basis of my initial post is that I have always found getting traffic easy and observed many struggle with getting visitors to there sites.

    I still feel strongly that even with a site that converts well there is definitely a skill required to get TARGETTED traffic to the site.

    As you say you can buy this traffic at any point ... I do choose the free route mainly because for me it is easy to do. Although at this time I am running some Facebook campaigns which are doing nicely also.

    Really like your perspective and insight though ... in fact I accept that what you say is absolutely true.

    Imagine the power of being able to generate tons of free traffic to a site that converts like its on crack
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    One's useless without the other.

    Tons to traffic to a site that doesn't convert is pointless... Just like a super high converting site site with zero traffic is pointless.

    James Scholes
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  • Profile picture of the author sandebdavid
    Obviously you need both, but the question is which should come first, the traffic or the nice site? I say get the traffic first and then later start twicking with the site in terms of content and monitor the conversion rates.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    Hands down, the reverse!

    Some traffic can literally be worthless. A site with targeted traffic can make more than another site with 10x (or more) traffic where visitors only bounce and never buy or click.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Wilson
    Sites can be updated these days in a few minutes especially if you use WP.

    Getting a premium domain and uploading it and tweaking takes only a few hours. I've just recently changed the design on my site and bounce rate went down for 50%.

    Anyway, traffic first, everything else second (in theory it works, in real life it is the other way around).
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I agree with the comments that "you can just buy traffic" but I believe that makes it sound too easy. You need just as many skills to efficiently buy traffic as you need to do SEO, etc. A newbie can burn through tons of money buying traffic that brings in zero return. There are many, many ways to pay for traffic. Some sources work better for one purpose and others for another. Yes, you can quickly test keywords and many other conversion factors but that takes a measure of skill and experience correct? It is very easy to PAY for traffic that is not targeted. It is also easy to pay for targeted traffic but to target incorrectly.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
      Originally Posted by Janice Sperry View Post

      I agree with the comments that "you can just buy traffic" but I believe that makes it sound too easy. You need just as many skills to efficiently buy traffic as you need to do SEO, etc. A newbie can burn through tons of money buying traffic that brings in zero return. There are many, many ways to pay for traffic. Some sources work better for one purpose and others for another. Yes, you can quickly test keywords and many other conversion factors but that takes a measure of skill and experience correct? It is very easy to PAY for traffic that is not targeted. It is also easy to pay for targeted traffic but to target incorrectly.
      But the question isn't - which is the easiest, it's about the value of traffic versus website/conversions.

      You can choose any element of running an online business and some people will struggle with it, so ultimately the 'best' thing to do is - test things for yourself and then develop your own best plan. Whether that's outsourcing your traffic generation, or finding a strategy that works for you - you still need a website that converts that traffic.

      There are many ways to get traffic and you can outsource it completely - there are people who will manage your PPC campaigns for you, so ignorance or inexperience at PPC is not an excuse for not using it.

      If you have a source of traffic that makes you more money that it costs to get that traffic - the mechanism itself is largely irrelevant.

      Way too many people in IM think they have to do it all themselves and that paying for something means they shouldn't do it - or that if you pay for something you need to be an expert in using it.

      ALL IM activities can be outsourced.

      It's all about mentality.

      If you don't know how to do something - you can just find someone who does and get them to do it. If you think you can't do PPC effectively then just pay someone who can.

      The thing to bare in mind is that what usually makes all the difference in whether a strategy is profitable or not is - what the value of each customer is.

      If your whole strategy revolves around trying to make your money in front-end sales, then you'll have to work 10 times harder than the person who has a great funnel of products for each customer and ultimately makes 10 times more on the back end than the front end (a very common situation).

      If you think your PPC of $0.10 per click is only monetised by converting a one-time affiliate sale for $20 and you can't convert enough to make it worth it - you may actually find that if you sent that same traffic at the same cost to your own list with regular relevant offers - that the numbers turn out to be profitable.

      Short term focus on quick profits ultimately leaves 'most' of the potential revenue on the table.

      Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnDBrewer
    I want to say thanks to everyone because I am a newbie and definitely will work on the traffic at the same time as content. I hope to be a good contributing member to this Warrior Forum in the coming months and years with experience earned.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tadresources
    Well I often buy sites via flippa that are making a ton of money, have lots of traffic but they really suck in the appearance side of things.

    And what do I do - I make it look good and the looking good doesn't cost half as much as it would to create a site from scratch with an alexa rank in the top 50,000.

    Plus IMO not many people seem that interested in flippa with the ugly sites so it means I can get my sites for less.
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  • Profile picture of the author tampaprogrammer
    Here is an OBVIOUS real world example. An ugly site with HUGE traffic.

    CRAIGSLIST .... need I say more which is more important?

    Rod
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  • Profile picture of the author savvybizbuilder
    Its true, its easy to build a website but the challenging part on how to drive traffic. The next challenge is on how to covert visitors into costumer. But social media works well for me, Like Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn. You don't have a massive traffic, you need a quality visitors that interested on your product and services. Maybe, if you are into Google Adsense you need a massive traffic. But in my case, I need quality visitors.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    Some really good points made I think.

    I do still stand by my original comment. Even though someone has said you can just buy traffic getting targetted traffic at the right price is still a skill in itself.

    Finding and testing products that sell i.e. convert is also an essiantal part of the marketing mix but without traffic u wont sell nothing not never

    BTW I do not think sites have to be pretty to convert. Some of the best converting sites are ugly but have amazing sales letters or the product is so compelling people will just buy them.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by celente View Post

      I actually have both.

      And guess what converts most...is the Lots of traffic with a crappy site.

      But I must tell you that site is crappy, but has the best copy, actually hired a pro copywriter to help me which was a coulple hundred bucks, but it converts day after day...and week after week. If traffic is KING...then your COPY and how well you write WORDS i would say is the QUEEN.

      These are two elements that you must master to make money online.
      Celente, my friend, I have to disagree with you here...

      There is no way on this Earth you can call a site that "converts day after day" crappy. Ugly, maybe. But crappy? No way.

      A Very Smart Person once told me that good design goes unnoticed because it serves the purpose for which it was created.

      There are lots of ugly sites that serve their purpose quite well, and there are many sites that, while pretty, couldn't sell new eyes to a blind man. In my view of things, the pretty but useless site qualifies as "crappy", not the ugly but effective one. Maybe that's just the engineer in me creeping out...


      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Because so many people want their traffic for free, they wrap themselves around the free traffic axle and waste a lot of time worrying and focusing on all the wrong things.
      Andy, I love the mental picture this bit draws...
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie123
    Always take the traffic! However, that is easier said than done. The question as posed as a catch-22. Sure, you want the traffic, however, that comes from content and relationship building, which means a productive and useful website. The cart before the horse. Hey, if that can work...do it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
    Let's look at the whole picture -

    I would rather have a good looking site with high converting sales copy; and I'd want that sales copy to refer to a medium - high ticket product ($500+) - and I'd want that product to be so damn good that people didn't even consider refunds for it.

    And now let's compare my ideal to most IM beginners...

    I want to build a site that takes only seconds to build. I want it to link to as many affiliate links and ads as I can becasue i don't care what happens to the people that visit the site. I want to be able to build as many of these as I can becasue I was told that the law of averages will work in my favor and my hit and miss approach will work one day. And I want to be able to do this at least half a dozen times a week...

    Me? I'd rather spend a few months building a product and a site that makes ten times whatever all those auto-generated crap sites do in a year!

    Paul Barrs
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    Traffic is easy actually very easy! We just go get traffic.

    But does it convert? Traffic & conversion are the two main elements

    When it comes to making money online.

    So the reverse hands down!!
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  • Profile picture of the author spycraft
    Hahaha I beg to differ Kal. Give me the traffic and I'll give you the site! That's an actual offer so if you're interested PM
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