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An Open Post to All WSO Creators ---- Please stop wasting our time

by digichik
64 replies
WSO Creators...


Please stop creating video only WSOs. I know that video is considered, in some IM circles, the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel, it isn't!


If you are making tens of thousands or millions of dollars online, then please take some of your profits and invest in Dragon software (voice transcription software), if you don't want to type out a course or have it professionally transcribed.


Most video courses are painful to sit through, they drag on and on. This would be okay if they were actually delivering useful content, but they aren't. Just a whole lot of repeating the same thing over and over, out of a 40 minute video there may actually be 15 minutes of useful content. Question, do the producers of these courses ever sit down and try to listen to what they have produced? I know, that was definitely a rhetorical question. If they did review their video courses before offering them as WSOs, they would be hard pressed to sit through to the end themselves.


For those of us who have, husbands, wives, children, elders, jobs and other life responsibilities, it is difficult to find the time to sit down and watch three hours of videos to learn some aspect of IM. However, if you offer the course in PDF form we can print it out so that we can read it while on a break at work, at soccer practice with the kids, at a doctors appointment with an elder, or on public transportation to or from work. In other words we can easily find time through out the day to learn the material. With video it's much more difficult to find the time to sit and watch the course. In most cases, I can read faster than you can talk. PDF is a more efficient way to deliver your course, most of the time.


In PDF form, we can print it out and make notes right on the page, and then refer back with out having to remember which of 10 videos the content was in, then have to search the video to hear it again.


Please just use video when you have to visually demonstrate something, such as how to use a particular software, or an over the shoulder demonstration.


If you insist on doing video, then please have respect for my time as you customer, don't drone on and on, don't just keep repeating the same things over and over, and talk faster. If I need something repeated I can Pause and Replay. Make an outline, if not a script, of the material you want to cover, so that you have an idea of what you are doing. Please keep your content relevant a deliver it in a succinct manner.


Now I must return to this WSO video course I just purchased, it's painful to sit through, but I know there are some pearls of wisdom somewhere in there, there just has to be...





EDIT: For those of you thinking of producing a WSO, consider purchasing WillR WSO for Mobile Websites as a guide on how to use PDF and video in a near perfect combination.

His videos are concise and easy to watch; his PDFs are easy to read. One can get through the content in a few hours and get right to making money the next day. Isn't that what WSOs should be about? Also, his updates and follow-up with his customers is exemplary.
#creators #open #post #stop #time #wasting #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    you are absolutely right about that and I totally get your point.

    Some Wso creators choose video because it's much easier for them in faster to create.

    you just sit down and talk explain stuff and boom now you have a high quality product.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
      Kal,

      Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post


      Some Wso creators choose video because it's much easier for them in faster to create.
      Easier and faster for the creator is NOT a benefit the customer cares about. The reason most people buy any product is because they are looking for an easier/faster way to do something.

      you just sit down and talk explain stuff and boom now you have a high quality product.
      There's absolutely no correlation between "sitting down and talking" and "quality".

      As the OP says... videos are often repetitive and rambling.

      Personally there have been times when I've considered poking my eyes with a pin rather than watch a video that's less interesting than watching paint dry.

      John
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      • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
        Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

        Kal,



        Easier and faster for the creator is NOT a benefit the customer cares about. The reason most people buy any product is because they are looking for an easier/faster way to do something.



        There's absolutely no correlation between "sitting down and talking" and "quality".

        As the OP says... videos are often repetitive and rambling.

        Personally there have been times when I've considered poking my eyes with a pin rather than watch a video that's less interesting than watching paint dry.

        John
        John,

        I totally agree with you 100%,however I think you missed my point or I was not clear enough or maybe both .:rolleyes:
        what I was trying to clarify to the op the reason WHY some Wso creators do videos
        Instead of a pdf format.

        Wasn't in any way supporting what they are doing. In fact I hated myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author MattCatania
    Originally Posted by digichik View Post

    WSO Creators...


    Please stop creating video only WSOs. I know that video is considered, in some IM circles, the greatest thing since the invention of the wheel, it isn't!

    Most video courses are painful to sit through, they drag on and on. This would be okay if they were actually delivering useful content, but they aren't. Just a whole lot of repeating the same thing over and over, out of a 40 minute video there may actually be 15 minutes of useful content.
    You did a good job at bashing every WSO creator.

    I personally prefer to sit and watch/listen to them because I find that I can learn better when I can hear somebody talk about a topic. Everybody learns differently.

    As for you saying that there isn't useful content then maybe you're buying WSO's from people who aren't putting in the effort to create a stunning WSO... but you CAN'T say that everybody who creates video only WSO's deliver less than average content.

    Just another blanket statement thrown around by members of this forum.
    /sigh
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    • Profile picture of the author digichik
      Originally Posted by MattCatania View Post

      You did a good job at bashing every WSO creator.

      I personally prefer to sit and watch/listen to them because I find that I can learn better when I can hear somebody talk about a topic. Everybody learns differently.

      As for you saying that there isn't useful content then maybe you're buying WSO's from people who aren't putting in the effort to create a stunning WSO... but you CAN'T say that everybody who creates video only WSO's deliver less than average content.

      Just another blanket statement thrown around by members of this forum.
      /sigh
      I wasn't bashing every WSO creator. If you read my post very carefully you will see that I said "most", not "all". I try hard not to make blanket statements.

      I realize that people learn in different ways, some need to read it, some need to see it, some need to do it. My point is it would probably be better for 90% of WSO purchasers to have the course in print. In some cases, depending on the materials covered, the course should be a combination.

      Just because one produces hours of videos(with no real content) doesn't mean they over delivered on their offering, it just means they are going to waste our time. You over deliver when you give me the content in a straight forward way without the usual filler (BS).

      I just get tired of sitting through hours of BS to get 30 minutes of actual instruction. My time is valuable to me, it can't replace it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert X
    I agree about 90%. I am a video course creator an I specifically NEVER ramble and have "filler" content such as, showing how to download something or how to sign up for something else. I HATE people that do that crap! I am creating a course as you read this about creating video courses that are worth while and NOT filled with crap. I buy 100's of products and sooooo many are such garbage. People are selling these products just to make a buck and are telling others to create their own garbage products that they have built in freakin' Istanbul by a guy who doen't know the 1st thing about the product they created. It's getting ugly and I'm gonna try to make a change.

    10% are good,, not ALL are bad,, just most

    It will be out after the 1st of the year. My project got hacked and is now delayed.

    Robert X
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    It totally depends what the course is about. I will always use video for tutorials and over the shoulder coaching when I am showing people exactly what to do on their computer - I find this works much better and is much faster for people to pick up than reading through text instructions and screenshots.

    If all I am providing is theory then I will not use video slideshows for those, I will just provide a PDF document because it's much easier for the customer to consume the information in that format.

    So you can't just say "don't use video" because it depends what information is being taught. I use both video and pdf for different things and I've never once had a customer complain.

    What you also need to understand is that product creators are always trying to limit unnecessary support queries. If I were to try and explain all the stuff I have shown them in videos in written pdf documents I am almost certain my support queries would sky rocket... that tells me one thing. Video is much better for over the shoulder training.

    Having said all that I do also get sick and tired of those video courses that ramble on about their life story and try to turn 5 minutes of content into 20 minutes just so they feel better about charging more money. I don't care about your life story or what you've done up until now. I didn't pay for that, just give me the damn information. And if all you are going to do is use text slides or sit on the Google homepage while you are talking then stick the content in a PDF instead. But they don't because once again they feel video has a higher value associated with it thus they feel more confident about charging more money.
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    • Profile picture of the author digichik
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      It totally depends what the course is about. I will always use video for tutorials and over the shoulder coaching when I am showing people exactly what to do on their computer - I find this works much better and is much faster for people to pick up than reading through text instructions and screenshots.

      If all I am providing is theory then I will not use video slideshows for those, I will just provide a PDF document because it's much easier for the customer to consume the information in that format.

      So you can't just say "don't use video" because it depends what information is being taught. I use both video and pdf for different things and I've never once had a customer complain.

      What you also need to understand is that product creators are always trying to limit unnecessary support queries. If I were to try and explain all the stuff I have shown them in videos in written pdf documents I am almost certain my support queries would sky rocket... that tells me one thing. Video is much better for over the shoulder training.

      Having said all that I do also get sick and tired of those video courses that ramble on about their life story and try to turn 5 minutes of content into 20 minutes just so they feel better about charging more money. I don't care about your life story or what you've done up until now. I didn't pay for that, just give me the damn information. And if all you are going to do is use text slides or sit on the Google homepage while you are talking then stick the content in a PDF instead. But they don't because once again they feel video has a higher value associated with it thus they feel more confident about charging more money.

      WillR, you are not included in my rant. I bought your WSO for mobile and your videos should be used in a case study of how to do it right. You used a combination of video and PDF perfectly. I really appreciate your style, straight to the point useful information. You gave me the information I needed to make money and I have. No filler, just the information I needed to know.
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    • Profile picture of the author Damielle
      Different people learn in different ways. I personally prefer video because and think its best for tutorials but obviously some prefer PDFs.
      I guess its best to have as many formats for your customers to consume which is what I've seen in most of the good WSOs I've bought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    Well that is your personal opinion and you are welcome to it. But believe me, as someone who makes a living doing video tutorials, when people are learning new things most of them learn better visually.

    Less experienced people often prefer video as well. I personally do not include a pdf with any of my videos and it has never even been mentioned to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author madelyndon
    Yes, I agree. Definitely prefer reading something and even printing it for later, rather than sitting through videos. I saw one recently where I had to shut it off. The guy had the most annoying voice - I really wanted to punch him!
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    • Profile picture of the author WillR
      Originally Posted by madelyndon View Post

      The guy had the most annoying voice - I really wanted to punch him!
      Haha. I think we've all come across one or two of those ourselves.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ed Micah
      Originally Posted by madelyndon View Post

      Yes, I agree. Definitely prefer reading something and even printing it for later, rather than sitting through videos. I saw one recently where I had to shut it off. The guy had the most annoying voice - I really wanted to punch him!
      You got the point there - it feels like you've wasted the money that you've invested into the course when you hear the annoying voice. You just can;t help it - lol.
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  • Profile picture of the author braincandy7
    I fully understand your point and in many situations i agree.

    The one time i personally believe that videos are of great benefit however is in the case of my site where we teach newcomers how to setup websites, add content, pictures, wrap text, buy and forward domains, install plugins and other potentially confusing things like that. Watching someone actually doing what they are teaching you while at the same time explaining why can often save lots of time rather than waste it.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Why do you feel compelled to click the buy now button on video only WSOs? Just don't click the button
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    • Profile picture of the author digichik
      Originally Posted by iAmNameLess View Post

      Why do you feel compelled to click the buy now button on video only WSOs? Just don't click the button
      You can't always tell they are video only. It's not just the video, but the lack of real content, delivered in a way that doesn't torture me to listen and watch.
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      • Profile picture of the author MOCrendon
        Originally Posted by digichik View Post

        You can't always tell they are video only. It's not just the video, but the lack of real content, delivered in a way that doesn't torture me to listen and watch.

        Digichick, you beat me to it! (I was writing this when your post came through) Many vendors, not just the WSO creators, do NOT make clear the medium(s) they're using / supplying. It infuriates me when I find the product I have downloaded is nothing more than a long-winded video or set of videos, badly produced.

        There are marketers (bless them) who provide transcripts of their videos. They're usually a little more expensive than a similar product without a transcript but I think they're worth the extra cost. Even many of those so-called video products(those which are nothing more than a bunch of text only slides with a commentary) often come with a PDF containing copies of the slides used in the "video", which when printed out give me something on which to scribble my own notes.

        Which brings me on to you Mr Tim Carter ;-)

        Without question, you are prolific creator of videos. I have several hundred of them - many with PLR! They are some of the best training videos I have seen. All meat! No filler, no waste! Highly recommended!

        While I would like to see you sell them being sold with transcripts, I'm glad they're not. I use them in my coaching sessions and can make a little extra money from those lazy students who want access to a copy of my working notes - the ones I take each time I view any true video!

        And Tim, the fact it has "never even been mentioned" to you that you do not provided PDF transcripts is probably due to the simple fact that, for the most part, you produce short videos with content that is easily absorbed and digested. And Tim, you do include a PDF with some of your videos - it's the resource file!

        Okay, that's enough praise for you in one post. I have work to do. I still have some notes to write up on a couple of your more recently released videos before I use them in tomorrow night's class.

        And finally, a couple of my more successful clients tell me they make more money selling videos with transcripts than without, and have fewer refund requests! Might be worth keeping this in mind you video only WSO creators!
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        • Profile picture of the author Brandon Huang
          I am currently doing my product with a pdf file and video...

          In some parts of the book I will ask them to refer to a titled video of mine for more information. Videos should always be broken down into segments, where they are titled according to parts, which would save others more time..

          In fact, I prefer everything to be in pdf usually and I only do videos to demonstrate something...

          e.g. A video made to demonstrate to the audience on how to install wordpress or etc...
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  • Profile picture of the author Tadresources
    Personally I hate videos - sometimes it is necessary if you are teaching someone a skill such as how to braid a horse or how to sew.

    But for the internet marketing world I absolutely hate it and if I see a video on a sales page I always leave straight away regardless of the product or service on offer.

    I also avoid products that are sold as videos and never buy them.

    If you are going down that route why cant you offer both - and then you are providing for everyone?

    Lets protest to bring back the pdf!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jude.A
    I agree with you absolutely.
    Please just use video when you have to visually demonstrate something, such as how to use a particular software, or an over the shoulder demonstration.
    I also prefer PDFs except for the reason above.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashley Redcliff
    I agree on some of your points.

    Videos should only be created if really necessary, e.g. product demonstrations, showing how to do a task that is hard to describe... etc.

    I really like text-based products that have helpful, supportive videos. However, if any included videos aren't necessary, then it is pretty annoying.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mikaedi88
    Thanks for the post, I agree with most of what you say, I myself prefer PDF because at least I can print it off and read it at my leasure and, of course refer to, if needed.

    The problem I have, which mainly about Video presentations etc is the creators don't give you the choice, which is an automatic turn-off.

    An example could be, I recieve an email from marketers recommending a offer or programme, thats fine,as I have subscribed to them, I click on the link to the site, which contains a Video/ not interested in that type of medium, I try to click away from it, not an easy task at all, I am forced to either click on the red X top right several times, or sometimes when that does'nt work, close down altogether.

    This is not in my mind, good Marketing tactics to encourage buyers at all, but all to common.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I agree, but you're wasting your time ranting about it. So many threads on this already and it is the consensus of the video only producers of sales pages and products that they don't really give a rats ass about the opinions of those who hate video and can't or won't watch them. They insist that we're in the minority that they don't market to.

    In other words, they're too lazy to deliver in both formats, so just move on and buy products that do cater to those who can't/won't watch videos.
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    • Profile picture of the author Rashell
      I don't mind the droning videos as much as I don't like the poorly formatted pdf files.

      At least with the videos I can multi-task or fast forward. With an eBook you have to sit there and actually read to sort through all the useless crap.

      Some authors
      • won't be bothered to design the text on the page so that it's easily readable for most every platform that will access it.
      • will use fonts that are annoyingly small. Forcing readers to zoom and scroll to read the content.
      • will use fonts that are annoyingly large. I guess they do this so they can brag about how many "pages" the eBook has.
      • won't be bothered to use graphics to assist visual learners.
      • will use the wrong graphics in the wrong place and interrupt the flow of communication.
      • won't be bothered to use bullet points, emphasis and indentations to assist in the flow of communication.
      • won't be bothered to create a linkable table of contents
      • or to number the pages of the document.
      • won't be bothered with spelling or grammar checks.
      • I could go on.
      I could but I won't. Shoot if someone else is going to spend the time
      • trying a method
      • testing the method
      • and giving me the 411
      I can sort through the rest. With all the brainstorming, trial and error time they just saved me what do I really have to complain about.


      Rashell
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  • Profile picture of the author IMHopeful
    I agree the OP. Videos are way too overused these days. It's a known fact that reading a book allows you to better absorb information, as compared to watching TV. I don't get how watch an online video is any different that watching the boob tube. To each their own though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sharyn Sheldon
      As an instructional designer for many years, I have to say that delivering content in several formats is the best way to go. Everyone learns differently. Like you said, it's easy enough to have something transcribed and put into a pdf. Some people prefer video, some audio, and others would rather read it. Personally, I prefer having a pdf so that I can either print it out and flip through, or read on my iPad while I'm working out. You can't skim through video to find what's relevant for your own needs.

      Thanks for pointing out the need to always have a print version of video content. I, for one, would really appreciate it.

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      • Profile picture of the author JRCarson
        As a course creator, I think it's completely dependent on the content someone is talking about...

        I figure it's time for a PDF if I bore myself when I'm doing a video.

        But sometimes all people need is a video to finally see how easy something is, or to get inspiration that it's very simple to do...or whatever.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by digichik View Post

    Please stop creating video only WSOs.
    Could you please record this post as a video? I don't like to read.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    To me, the issue is TOPIC DEPENDENT....some topics just naturally lend themselves to live visual instruction and some don't. A lot of wso sellers buy into the notion that "video adds more value" and ignore the more important question: What helps the buyer learn best?

    ...there are of course, badly formatted, badly written pdf's too, but when a video is bad, it's really bad :-) lol!
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Deegan
    I totally understand where you're coming.Personally what I try to do and what I hope others do if they are using video, is to create a script or at least a strong outline/mindmap to work off of. That you're not rambling or going on a tangent every few minutes. One tip that I picked up from Andy Jenkins was to slightly speed up the audio of your presentation which can help quite a bit if you happen to be a slow talker.

    A quick tip for those who need to create PDF's for training material check out a program called "Screen Steps". It's fantastic. It's designed for creating tutorials on what not. A great feature the software that not many people utilize is its ability to publish to WordPress. She could create step-by-step tutorials and publish them in both PDF and within your blog or membership site.

    One more tip, if you do have naturally Dragon speaking you can use it to transcribe the audio from your videos in order to provide a PDF version of your content. There is a bit of additional set up and training the software to get everything set up right but it's definitely worth the effort.
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  • Profile picture of the author t0mmy
    word!

    no offence guys but there is soooo much fluff in the WSO section, i believe if your going to make a product then for the love of god give people some value for their buck! provide quality and unique products not fluff!
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert H Cwik
    Originally Posted by digichik View Post

    ---cut---
    Most video courses are painful to sit through, they drag on and on. This would be okay if they were actually delivering useful content, but they aren't. Just a whole lot of repeating the same thing over and over, out of a 40 minute video there may actually be 15 minutes of useful content. Question, do the producers of these courses ever sit down and try to listen to what they have produced? I know, that was definitely a rhetorical question. If they did review their video courses before offering them as WSOs, they would be hard pressed to sit through to the end themselves.
    ---cut---
    As much as the above is an over-generalization (since some video courses are delivering value without dragging on), I want to join with my observation referring to the highlighted fragment.

    What I really hate, what puts me off and almost makes me ask for the refund is the fact that those videos are often thrown in without any edits whatsoever . In many of them the author wants to make a point, and goes, for example, to their WP blog dashboard, and selects the wrong option, goes back, apologizes, selects another wrong option, until they finally remember what they were to click. 3-5 minutes of the video went by ... Another situation - logging into their sites - oops, I forgot my password ... So another attempt, and another, and...

    I could give you specific examples with cut scenes of such videos.

    People buy WSOs to learn. At least I do, and I follow the videos as they go.

    "Do this" - pause - I do this - play "Now do that" - pause - I do that... and I can't find what the man was talking about - play - "No, sorry, it's not here... Let's try here... No... Oh, here it is! Click this link here!"

    Is this professional or what?

    For goodness sake, this is not live, it's a recorded video! Work on it, edit, cut, delete what's not contributing, like your goofs, otherwise it all looks like unprofessional hap-hazard bunch of unsuccessful login/registration/download attempts with some content in between. Edit the audio, too, when your video is nothing else than a recorded presentation.

    Of course it does not concern ALL WSO creators who use video but a part of them. I hope they'll read this post by any chance and blush
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelcook2003
    I prefer both video AND PDFs; combined they are very powerful. However, if the video is unedited, has creepy background music mixed in, and the PDF is all over the place, without a proper clickable summary, then I'd ask for a refund because I believe that a seller who cannot pack the information, doesn't have much information to sell in the first place.
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  • Profile picture of the author eastwest97
    As a training specialist, I totally understand where the OP is coming from. But to sit on the fence here...adults are a mix of visual, audio and kinesthetic learning. I prefer to read than watch a video but at times, a visual video "how-to" is a great help. Personally, I think it should be offered in both forms to accommodate the customers. I am a technical writer in my day job and I instill both the written word and screen shots and/or Camtasia video for all my training courses.

    Just my $0.02.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    I do a combination in most of my courses because I know the stats for my audience are about half and half for vid/txt preferences.

    I myself HATE watching video for the exact reason you describe - people repeat, don't get to the point fast enough, etc. I read like the wind - and I always prefer readings with an optional video tutorial if I need the help seeing it in action.
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  • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
    I agree totally......

    Videos are cool at times.... But, I prefer both a PDF and videos...

    If you are going to spend your time and $40 to list your WSO, spend some more money over at fiverr.com to have your videos transcribed..... The money spent for transcription will easily come back to you in additional sales....

    My two cents.... :-)

    All the Best,

    Rich
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    • Profile picture of the author Wakunahum
      Just a little tip...

      Get VLC player and you can speed up the videos. I normally watch most at double speed to get through them faster.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
    Videos can be painful to watch when done poorly, and a pleasure to consume when done well. It simply depends.

    Let's ban "bad videos" and encourage "good videos."

    --- Ross
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    • Profile picture of the author jppromo
      Totally agree with that! When videos are done well I find them better than PDF's.
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    • Profile picture of the author jppromo
      Originally Posted by Ross Bowring View Post

      Videos can be painful to watch when done poorly, and a pleasure to consume when done well. It simply depends.

      Let's ban "bad videos" and encourage "good videos."

      --- Ross
      Totally agree with that! When videos are done well I find them better than PDF's.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
      Originally Posted by Ross Bowring View Post

      Videos can be painful to watch when done poorly, and a pleasure to consume when done well. It simply depends.

      Let's ban "bad videos" and encourage "good videos."

      --- Ross
      The worst videos are the ones where they dont even talk and only type on the screen and have loud music... I really hate those videos!

      I havent purchased a standalone Video product like that but their training videos for plugins and programs were like that.
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      • Profile picture of the author sellerscompanion
        I can totally see both sides of this, and it really depends on the topic. For some topics, I might want to hunker down for a few hours and read a PDF that I have printed while drinking a hot cup of coffee in my PJ's. On other topics, I want to devour videos and do each task step by step.

        I have to also say that there are certain product creators that I hate to see doing a video because I need extra caffeine to stay awake. I know what you mean about feeling trapped because you don't want to miss anything important.... should it happen to actually come up. Being a Southern gal with a fast moving brain, I tend to talk too fast. However, I think it makes some of my videos better because I don't add filler. I want to get to the point, so I figure people can pause it if they need to.

        What I really despise are LONG videos that are just Powerpoint presentations. I can read, people. I don't need you to read to me on video.

        Charity
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
        I came into this thread thinking their might be something interesting and worthwhile to read, but far out - what a waste - that's 8 mins of my life I'm not going to get back.

        To the OP; easy answer; stop buying crap!

        I guarantee that if you gave one of my videos 5 mins, you'd be glued to the screen and not worrying about other stuff in life that seems more interesting. Simple fact is, MOST PEOPLE shouldn't be doing video or audio work; speaking well in front of a microphone is a craft, not a hobby.

        Caliban -

        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        Could you please record this post as a video? I don't like to read.
        I gave you the first "thanks" I've handed out in weeks for a good belly laugh

        Thx.

        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author celente
          Originally Posted by Paul Barrs View Post


          easy answer; stop buying crap!

          Paul
          Nice paul you sorted it all out in 5 simple words. well done. And I agree with you 200%
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        • Profile picture of the author digichik
          Originally Posted by Paul Barrs View Post

          To the OP; easy answer; stop buying crap!

          And how, exactly, am I supposed to determine what is crap and what isn't without purchasing it first? The review system isn't always the help that it is supposed be.
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Having a day to let this thread marinate, my memory has kicked out an idea that may be of some use in this type of situation...

            You don't want to produce PDF versions of your training or other video content, for whatever reason. A portion of your buyers don't wan't to sit through long stretches of video (quality issues aside) or hunt for the bits of content they want to review.

            Years ago, Jack Nicklaus put out a monster video product called "Golf My Way" (at least it was a monster for the time). About six hours on two VHS tapes. And a guide with matched topics and time stamps so you could go to exactly which bit of video you wanted to watch.

            Need to review how to hit a sidehill shot with the ball above your feet? Tape 1 at 1:46:12. Simple and elegant.

            As a product producer, you (or someone you hired) could create such a guide in one pass through the videos. And add a ton of value for a little bit of time and effort...
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            • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
              John,

              Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

              . And a guide with matched topics and time stamps so you could go to exactly which bit of video you wanted to watch.
              Please refrain from offering sensible, brilliantly simple and totally doable suggestions. You're making the rest of us look bad.

              Sincerely,

              Becky
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          • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
            Originally Posted by digichik View Post

            And how, exactly, am I supposed to determine what is crap and what isn't without purchasing it first?
            Simple.

            If you can't tell whether it's crap, chances are it is.

            People who have good stuff will go out of their way to make sure you know it, and the review section reflects that.
            Signature
            "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author SergioFelix
    LOL so much insights here and I always thought that video was more valuable than a PDF!

    I think it is a matter of choice, some like video, some like written text.

    I agree with the ones saying that video is cool for over-the-shoulder demoing purposes however, there are also people that won't even read the PDF's and dive straight to video if the whole course is available in that format.

    It's no surprise that most important blogs and sites are starting to release their content in all the platforms possible (video, written blog article, downloadable mp3/podcasts, pdf, and versions for mobile devices)

    I don't know if this has been discussed here before but I think that delivering the same content on so many different formats, should raise the cost.

    Not because I say so but because it is an industry standard.

    Take a look for example at something we are all familiar with like Amazon.

    If I try to buy the Steve Jobs book, it currently sells for:

    Kindle Edition ............................$11.99
    Hardcover ................................$17.49
    Audio, CD, Abridged, Audiobook ....$19.79

    If you bundled this together (like Sitepoint does with their books) you could get an special discount but you would have to pay extra for receiving the same content on another format.

    Would it be okay if we create a product and deliver that in three different platforms and we charge MORE if you want the three platforms bundle?

    I know many will say they don't agree but if someone is perfectly fine with just written text or video or audio, then it would actually benefit them so they could get the product way cheapier.

    There's no point in paying premium prize for something you're not going to use.


    ***

    This turned out a big rant but I'm trying to stay on topic, what are your thoughts about it?

    (it DOES interest me too!)

    Thanks in advance!

    Sergio
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  • Profile picture of the author Tony54465
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author ShayB
      This thread isn't really about vids vs. PDFs.

      People don't seem to mind vids as long as as the vids are done well and have no fillers and fluff.

      Same can be said of PDFs that have fluff and nonsense in them to inflate page count.

      It's more of an issue of content than format, IMHO. (Which is a good thing to remember, no matter what the format.)
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

        you just sit down and talk explain stuff and boom now you have a high quality product.
        Kal, the ones where the creator just sits down and talks are some of the worst offenders and efinitely not "high quality" products.

        People hear some guru or expert tell them that with video, they can have a product ready to sell in an hour, so they drink the kool-ade and make the video.

        Think of any theatrical release...

        That 90 minute movie took weeks of shooting dozens or hundreds of hours of video, not to mention the blocking and rehearsal time. Then post-production teams spend weeks snipping and tweaking until the film is as good as they can make it.

        Adding time to actually practice your presentation and editing the result may add a few hours to your product creation time. But the difference in quality can be staggering.

        Originally Posted by Ross Bowring View Post

        Videos can be painful to watch when done poorly, and a pleasure to consume when done well. It simply depends.

        Let's ban "bad videos" and encourage "good videos."

        --- Ross
        I'm going to say what I always say in these discussions...

        It isn't the format, it's the execution. The best way to ban bad videos is to refund bad products and not buy additional ones until the provider ups their game. In fact, it's about the only effective way.
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  • Profile picture of the author lotsofsnow
    I go through several WSOs every day (well, that's my job..).

    Anyhow, yes I sincerely hate all video WSOs as it often takes hours to through on of these monsters.

    Recently there was one WSO and I had to go through 13 of the 20 videos to finally find out that it was all crap; nicely packaged crap though.

    Some kind of quick overview would be really great (and most people don't sit through all videos anyhow - they just pick what they need and move on). It's like high school - or did you read all of Hamlet ???

    HP
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  • Profile picture of the author SergioFelix
    It's impossible to have everyone happy.

    No wonder whenever there's a new WSO release there's always someone having heated discussions.

    Quick example:

    I recently had to "sit" through a video (above one hour in time) that basically said: "pick a niche and if it doesn't works out, jump to another one".

    The video was filled explaining what a niche was and what it wasn't, where to get ideas from, what was considered a profitable niche, etc, etc.

    If I didn't know what a niche was in the first place, I know I'd have loved the module.

    But as I did know, it was long and boring as hell for me.

    Can I bash the marketer for that? I don't think so, yet that HAPPENS here a lot.

    1. A rating system could help. (newbie, intermediate, advanced, etc)
    2. Showcasing what is covered on every video (inside the training area).
    3. Adding advanced play controls to the video players (play speeds at 2x)

    Everyone can just complain about it and yet they do nothing to make this any better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
    In some cases I agree with you.

    But I gotta say that when I released a pdf WSO I ended up with so many what if questions, emails, PM's, Skype messages that I went crazy and got sick every time I opened up my emails.

    Now I mainly use videos and I get at least 95% less questions.

    So I do understand the value of having a PDF and you can dig in real quick and get the highlights... But usually leaves too many unanswered questions and it turns into a support nightmare, or I should say an email coaching nightmare..lol

    Also Dragon and those voice transcribing programs suck. Too many mistakes and takes a long time to get it to even somewhat work.



    Also used a few transcribers and it slows down the whole product creation phase and can get costly.

    So a better question would be to ask... If product creators started adding PDFs to their Video WSO's are you willing to fork over more cash to buy it?

    So instead of a $10-$20 WSO... You pay $20-$40

    I try to add a quick PDF to my products now, so that people can follow along or get the key points. But not meant to replace the actual training.

    When I buy a video course I usually just skip around the video or if I downloaded the video I have sped up the speed to 1.5x or a little more using VLC player.
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    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by Dr Dan View Post

      So a better question would be to ask... If product creators started adding PDFs to their Video WSO's are you willing to fork over more cash to buy it?

      So instead of a $10-$20 WSO... You pay $20-$40
      Dr Dan,

      That is interesting, my friend...

      I don't see adding fiverr transcribed content doubling the price.... Even if you posted a "Help Wanted" transcription ad here at WF, you could probably get most WSOs transcribed for under $200... Maybe even a little less on Craig's list....

      From a business perspective, will you recoup your $200 from additional sales? If it is good, you easily will.... Plus, you now have an asset you can sell as a printed book on CreateSpace and other outlets.... More $$$.....

      All the Best,

      Rich
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      • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
        Originally Posted by RichBeck View Post

        Dr Dan,

        That is interesting, my friend...

        I don't see adding fiverr transcribed content doubling the price.... Even if you posted a "Help Wanted" transcription ad here at WF, you could probably get most WSOs transcribed for under $200... Maybe even a little less on Craig's list....

        From a business perspective, will you recoup your $200 from additional sales? If it is good, you easily will.... Plus, you now have an asset you can sell as a printed book on CreateSpace and other outlets.... More $$$.....

        All the Best,

        Rich
        The problem is the time it takes to go through the transcripts and edit all the mistakes.

        As far a doubling the price its not how much its costs to have the product created. Otherwise all the PDFs should be free and no one would make any money on wso's ebooks etc.

        But if a product creator needs to double their time to create a product, then the price is going to be higher.
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  • Profile picture of the author jrpt
    Simple rationale: Video is harder to duplicate and redistribute if done the right way. Text can be copied/pasted/stolen.

    I agree with your premise though. Text takes time and thought...video doesn't necessarily.
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    • Profile picture of the author RichBeck
      Originally Posted by jrpt View Post

      Simple rationale: Video is harder to duplicate and redistribute if done the right way. Text can be copied/pasted/stolen.
      jrpt,

      If someone wants to steal your content in text or video, it is pretty hard to stop totally....

      With videos, you don't need the original file.... All you need to do is record the video as it is playing.... Not as easy as copy and paste... But, still pretty easy...

      With my software, I do my best to slow them down by using copy protection....

      All the Best,

      Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author Reebz
    PDFs are a mandatory accompaniment with a video.

    I need something to search so I can pick and choose what is right for me.

    Great post!
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    • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
      I'm so damn old school... I like a box to arrive via FED EX.

      The 'thud factor' is a lost art
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  • Profile picture of the author buckeyes09
    I suppose it depends what the WSO is teaching. I've found some that are video that show step-by-step guides, such as on Wordpress, that are very helpful because you don't have to guess what to do. Ones that are philosophical take up time and don't need to be video-based.
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    Christian

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  • Profile picture of the author SiteSpeculator
    I would like to add to this rant by saying I would like someone to just send me money - preferably in large denominated bills. Having to watch videos, read reports and learn all this stuff is getting old.
    Where can I sign up for the cash delivered to my mail box for doing nothing course? AND I'd like it read to me while I lay in bed by a Playboy Playmate . . .
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

      John,



      Please refrain from offering sensible, brilliantly simple and totally doable suggestions. You're making the rest of us look bad.

      Sincerely,

      Becky
      Sorry...

      I lost my head there for a minute.
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