Got a death threat today from an irate customer

by Magim
173 replies
So here's a first for me.

I received an email today from some guy telling me how he "bet everything he had on my s---ty product" and how it "ruined his life" and how he's going to basically come over to my house and kill me. (btw he doesn't have my address)

I sent the guy a much more reasonable response than he deserved, and am currently waiting on his.

Anyways, while I fully recognize that this guy is an a-hole and it's a completely idle threat, this is bumming me out a lot more than it should. I've been doing IM for awhile (largely within email marketing) and I've never had that extreme level of vitriol directed toward me. I'd consider myself one of the good guys-- I don't put out crap products, nor do I promote crap products. If he had that bad of an experience with a product of mine that it "ruined his life", he's most certainly in the extreme minority...

Ugh.

Anyone else had to deal with people sending you threats and anger of this magnitude? How do you handle these bad apples?
#customer #death #irate #threat #today
  • Profile picture of the author Dinistreniad
    Sadly, I get death threats on an almost weekly basis, just because I exist.

    I pass them all on to the authorities, though I don't really take any of them seriously.

    The truth is, some people are lunatics.
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    • Profile picture of the author Keeslover
      I hope you told him that if he persisted in his vitriol, you'd let the police handle it.
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    • Profile picture of the author MP80
      Originally Posted by Magim View Post

      ..I've never had that extreme level of vitriol directed toward me.
      Btw I know what you mean by this - I got jumped and bashed by a couple of guys while out one night the year before last. It left me with a broken jaw in two places, and two brain injuries (amongst other things). I am still recovering from the brain damage (lol I'm sure a few people have noticed ) and now have permanent metal plates etc in my jaw.

      Before that happened I always figured 'do unto others..' and if I was a nice guy, others would be nice to me. But these guys didn't know me from Adam - they had not long been out of prison (for doing the same thing) and were high on alcohol and drugs.

      Originally Posted by Dinistreniad View Post

      The truth is, some people are lunatics.
      That is so true. These kinds of people are just trouble looking for somewhere to happen.. try not to take it to heart because it's not personal.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnWiz
        Good for you buddy... love your attitude.

        Originally Posted by MP80 View Post

        Btw I know what you mean by this - I got jumped and bashed by a couple of guys while out one night the year before last. It left me with a broken jaw in two places, and two brain injuries (amongst other things). I am still recovering from the brain damage (lol I'm sure a few people have noticed ) and now have permanent metal plates etc in my jaw.

        Before that happened I always figured 'do unto others..' and if I was a nice guy, others would be nice to me. But these guys didn't know me from Adam - they had not long been out of prison (for doing the same thing) and were high on alcohol and drugs.



        So anyway, try not to take it to heart because it's not personal.
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    • Profile picture of the author gacott
      Originally Posted by Dinistreniad View Post

      Sadly, I get death threats on an almost weekly basis, just because I exist.

      I pass them all on to the authorities, though I don't really take any of them seriously.

      The truth is, some people are lunatics.
      Ehh, you may just want to take a look at what you are doing and how you are doing it, seriously. I can see once, maybe twice, but weekly is an issue.

      Just saying.

      Garret
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
      Originally Posted by Dinistreniad View Post

      Sadly, I get death threats on an almost weekly basis, just because I exist.
      Wow - you must be doing something really underhanded if that is happening.

      The president of the USA doesn't get that many.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

        Wow - you must be doing something really underhanded if that is happening.
        Nah, you just have to make a lot of ignorant, small-minded, violent people angry. That's a lot easier on the internet than you'd think.
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    • Profile picture of the author achukuttan
      Originally Posted by Dinistreniad View Post

      Sadly, I get death threats on an almost weekly basis, just because I exist.

      I pass them all on to the authorities, though I don't really take any of them seriously.

      The truth is, some people are lunatics.
      Thats right Dinistreniad, got an interesting threat yesterday from a lunatic!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    hum guess a few things to be learnt here

    always use a po box or equivalent so they dont actually come knocking at your door

    plus always have a disclaimer on your site and or product saying results are not typical don't invest what you can;t afford etc
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    • Profile picture of the author Hackbridge
      Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post

      hum guess a few things to be learnt here

      always use a po box or equivalent so they dont actually come knocking at your door
      In the UK unless your life is in danger, and you can prove it with proof from the correct authorities you cannot, cannot get a PO Box whereby your address behind the box is protected. You would need a letter from say either the Police, or other Goverment organisation(s), the Courts included when making an application for a PO Box that conceals your address.

      Brian
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    • Profile picture of the author DA
      Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post

      hum guess a few things to be learnt here
      always use a po box or equivalent so they dont actually come knocking at your door
      plus always have a disclaimer on your site and or product saying results are not typical don't invest what you can;t afford etc
      I agree with you.
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    • Profile picture of the author anthony2
      Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post

      hum guess a few things to be learnt here

      always use a po box or equivalent so they dont actually come knocking at your door

      plus always have a disclaimer on your site and or product saying results are not typical don't invest what you can;t afford etc

      I agree with the quote above.
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  • Profile picture of the author MP80
    Hey Matt,

    I haven't (yet) but I imagine it comes with the territory. Try not to let it get you down, as I for one can vouch for the quality of your stuff. You never know what's going on in that guys life right now, or if he just has some kind of mental problem.

    Either way - it says more about him than it does about you, and I'm sure over time it won't affect you so much.. probably just a bit of a shock to the system right now.

    Sorry I couldn't be much more help, and I hope you get some better answers soon

    Merry Xmas (lol)

    Max
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    Is the person based in the US?
    Since they've bought something from you their address will be available through the payment processor, so you could report them to local authorities, though it's unlikely they'd act.
    Personally I would write a 'professional' letter, indicating in a civil way that threats of this type are taken very seriously by you and that you're prepared to pursue the matter with the local authorities should the threats persist. Then see if they back-off, or escalate. If they escalate, I'd involve the authorities. If you have their address, or even City, contact the local police and file a complaint.
    Most likely they'll back-off, but I'd want to have some closure and not be wondering for too long about their intent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Report it to the police, and if you don't have one already you should invest in a gun.

    I trust my life to GLOCK, and so does law enforcement. Don't go with a cheap one like Hi-Point. Your life is worth the extra $ spent on a quality pistol.

    While you hope you never have to use it, IF you should ever have to then it needs to work. Not jam up.

    It's better to have one and not need it, than it is to need one and not have it..

    People are crazy, you don't know if hes making empty threats or not.

    But you cant rely solely on the police. If someone comes to your house, you need to be ready to defend yourself and your family while you wait for the cops to get there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Samrath Gupta
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Report it to the police, and if you don't have one already you should invest in a gun.

      I trust my life to GLOCK, and so does law enforcement. Don't go with a cheap one like Hi-Point. Your life is worth the extra $ spent on a quality pistol.

      While you hope you never have to use it, IF you should ever have to then it needs to work. Not jam up.

      It's better to have one and not need it, than it is to need one and not have it..

      People are crazy, you don't know if hes making empty threats or not.

      But you cant rely solely on the police. If someone comes to your house, you need to be ready to defend yourself and your family while you wait for the cops to get there.
      I LOVE THIS IDEA LOL.... GOING TO BUY A GUN SOON
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    • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
      God bless America!

      man you like your guns

      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Report it to the police, and if you don't have one already you should invest in a gun.

      I trust my life to GLOCK, and so does law enforcement. Don't go with a cheap one like Hi-Point. Your life is worth the extra $ spent on a quality pistol.

      While you hope you never have to use it, IF you should ever have to then it needs to work. Not jam up.

      It's better to have one and not need it, than it is to need one and not have it..

      People are crazy, you don't know if hes making empty threats or not.

      But you cant rely solely on the police. If someone comes to your house, you need to be ready to defend yourself and your family while you wait for the cops to get there.
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    • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post


      I trust my life to GLOCK, and so does law enforcement. Don't go with a cheap one like Hi-Point. Your life is worth the extra $ spent on a quality pistol.
      I prefer a Ruger Super Blackhawk... it goes through trees and metal
      better!

      I have gotten threats over the years from a few customers, and even
      site visitors who were upset that I didn't kick others off of a discussion
      forum. One customer for example, HATED GoDaddy, and because I
      recommended them in an email, he spent about six months attacking me
      via emails.

      You should take every threat seriously, although the response from
      local authorities will vary. I live in a community of retire soldiers
      who probably ALL own guns, look out for each other and are
      properly trained to use them.

      I would certainly report it, and probably let the individual KNOW that
      I had reported it.

      Willie
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    • Profile picture of the author Soren
      I'm sorry to hear you've been threatened, however, if you're giving high risk advice in certain niches, which potentionally could ruin peoples lives, then it was just a matter of time, sadly.

      Personally I'll never ask people to trust me THAT much, to put ALL eggs in one basket, but that's just ONE of the reasons why I don't operate in these niches.

      Because even though we know to ourselves, that we would never try to give people a solution we're not 100% sure will work, there's all sorts of factors which we cannot forsee.

      Showing people to make money with zero to minimum financial investment (simply asking for their focus, enthusiasm and passion) is one thing, showing them how to improve their life, by guiding them in the right direction, and overcoming a problem is one thing, but telling them how to get their ex back (which could turn out catastrophically in some cases), how to loose a lot of money trading or gambling or anything with a high risk involved, is just not something I'd be willing to do (I'm not saying that's what you do either) for several reasons besides morality:

      1) there's too many unknown factors, we cannot take into account and generalize
      2) people don't follow your advice spot on, and their lives worsens, they go broke, gets torn apart etc
      3) people will blame you and make your live miserable even though you've warned them, and wanted the best for them (if they are psychos)

      I wouldn't follow Whos That Guru's advice, and was amazed to see someone beginning to talk about guns in an internet marketing community. This is just nuts to me, and I believe it somehow must be a big joke.

      Instead consider how you're going to inform people about the risk involved in following your advice, that it's basically their own responsibility to follow them spot on, and even if they manage to do that, there's no guarantee that it'll turn out for the better. Just tell them about the little things in the universe which we do not control... I mean, if there's a risk involved which could ruin there lives...

      I'm really not saying it's your fault at all, just that you need to inform them about the dangers beforehand so that it becomes crystal clear. That's WAY better than going too far underground, undercover, buying a gun, hiring bodyguards and building a large fence around your house.

      I hope you don't receive any more threats. Merry christmas
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    • Profile picture of the author AnthonyCurtis
      Best answer!

      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Report it to the police, and if you don't have one already you should invest in a gun.

      I trust my life to GLOCK, and so does law enforcement. Don't go with a cheap one like Hi-Point. Your life is worth the extra $ spent on a quality pistol.

      While you hope you never have to use it, IF you should ever have to then it needs to work. Not jam up.

      It's better to have one and not need it, than it is to need one and not have it..

      People are crazy, you don't know if hes making empty threats or not.

      But you cant rely solely on the police. If someone comes to your house, you need to be ready to defend yourself and your family while you wait for the cops to get there.
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    • Profile picture of the author nickdamodda
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Report it to the police, and if you don't have one already you should invest in a gun.

      I trust my life to GLOCK, and so does law enforcement. Don't go with a cheap one like Hi-Point. Your life is worth the extra $ spent on a quality pistol.

      While you hope you never have to use it, IF you should ever have to then it needs to work. Not jam up.

      It's better to have one and not need it, than it is to need one and not have it..

      People are crazy, you don't know if hes making empty threats or not.

      But you cant rely solely on the police. If someone comes to your house, you need to be ready to defend yourself and your family while you wait for the cops to get there.


      Well I live in California, so it isn't the same around here as the Midwest :/ Any suggestions now? The gun laws here are crazy.
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  • Profile picture of the author solado
    If your product claims to make '$1,000 per week sitting on your hands', then to be honest no matter how good the product is, your going to get those 'special needs' customers who believe making $1,000 a week is possible and cant see it for a marketing tactic.

    This is one of the reasons why i want to develop as an affiliate / adsense content creator, i have no intrest in customer service for this purpose, people are just to unpredictable and the less communication i have with them, the better
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    • Profile picture of the author Magim
      Thanks everyone for your insights, I appreciate it.

      I think in the future, I'm going to go with the "send a professional/civil letter kindly informing the person that they need to back the f*** off or the authorities will get involved" approach.

      And happy holidays to y'all!
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Magim View Post

        Thanks everyone for your insights, I appreciate it.

        I think in the future, I'm going to go with the "send a professional/civil letter kindly informing the person that they need to back the f*** off or the authorities will get involved" approach.

        And happy holidays to y'all!
        Magim, you are not dealing with a rational person. Send the letter, then sit down with local LEOs and show them your documentation. If the guy is from another state, skip the locals and contact the FBI. It's called 'making terroristic threats', and with all the nutjob shootings these days, they take such things seriously.

        They will likely have someone at the buyer's local area let him know that he's now on their radar, and to back off. It doesn't have to escalate past that, but you do want things on record.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Stephens
    You must report this to the police, with any evidence and his address if you have it, and be prepared. Very sad really, but just shows we are all not decent people.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zero
    I'd handle it just like i would any other annoyed customer. Refund them and apologise the product wasn't up to their standards, but at the same take note of their details and if it happens again - report them to the authorities.
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  • Profile picture of the author emini_guy
    Originally Posted by Magim View Post

    So here's a first for me.

    I received an email today from some guy telling me how he "bet everything he had on my s---ty product" and how it "ruined his life" and how he's going to basically come over to my house and kill me. (btw he doesn't have my address)

    I sent the guy a much more reasonable response than he deserved, and am currently waiting on his.

    Anyways, while I fully recognize that this guy is an a-hole and it's a completely idle threat, this is bumming me out a lot more than it should. I've been doing IM for awhile (largely within email marketing) and I've never had that extreme level of vitriol directed toward me. I'd consider myself one of the good guys-- I don't put out crap products, nor do I promote crap products. If he had that bad of an experience with a product of mine that it "ruined his life", he's most certainly in the extreme minority...

    Ugh.

    Anyone else had to deal with people sending you threats and anger of this magnitude? How do you handle these bad apples?
    Sadly, there are people like that out there always eager to take advantage of you or even to hurt you physically. This one is really extreme. I would contact the police, of course.

    I had to deal with a nutjob like that too on one occassion. The nutjob wanted to get my product free and so she filed a totally frivolous claim with Paypal, but as much as Paypal protects the buyer, they sided with me.

    Following this the nutjob threatened to denigrate my reputation online and even to sue Paypal. It turns out that the nutjob was in fact my competitor. You never know who you are dealing with.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Andrews
      Banned
      Originally Posted by emini_guy View Post

      Following this the nutjob threatened to denigrate my reputation online...
      It always pays to have a reputation management plan in place to act as a backup should anyone actually do this.

      Find out which sites can get to page 1 of Google very, very quickly and have content prepared in advance to go on this string of websites. Then if somebody does lob a few missiles your way in an effort to discredit your reputation, you simply use the power of these other websites with your fresh content to quickly shift their derogatory comments to page 2 of Google and beyond.

      Hence making sure that as few people as possible see their negative comments aimed at you.

      One or two companies online specialize in providing this service which it might be worth you or anyone else looking into if you're at all concerned about this or similar issues.

      Best,


      Mark Andrews
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    That's pretty drastic. Never had a death threat, although someone sent me a nasty email saying they didn't like women with tattoos. lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      That's pretty drastic. Never had a death threat, although someone sent me a nasty email saying they didn't like women with tattoos. lol.
      LOL wow. Im speechless..

      Nobody forced them to look at your avatar.. which by the way, is that really you? I've always wondered that.

      & Damn MP.. sorry to hear.

      What goes around comes around though, I'm a firm believer in karma. I might not be religious but I do think that you get what you put in. They will get whats coming to them one day, dont worry.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      That's pretty drastic. Never had a death threat, although someone sent me a nasty email saying they didn't like women with tattoos. lol.

      I once had a death threat in 2005. The local authorities refused to take it seriously, and the cop was pissed that I had "wasted his time" to report it.

      I told the cop that maybe it was a waste of time, but if I turned up dead, he would know where to start looking.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    Never had death threat but that should be reported IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author Magim
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    Playing with people's hopes and dreams is a more serious business than many think.
    Very true. Unfortunately, a lot of people can't seem to grasp the notion that to achieve those dreams, it's going to take time, effort, tenacity, focus, and perhaps most important, the ability to keep going through failures and disappointments. This is something that I really try to get across within my marketing efforts, but I guess this guy didn't get the message.
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    • Profile picture of the author emini_guy
      Originally Posted by Magim View Post

      Unfortunately, a lot of people can't seem to grasp the notion that to achieve those dreams, it's going to take time, effort, tenacity, focus, and perhaps most important, the ability to keep going through failures and disappointments. This is something that I really try to get across within my marketing efforts, but I guess this guy didn't get the message.

      Many of them don't, and it does not even matter in how many places you put it on your website because they will not even read it. It's kinda pointless when it comes to certain people.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Magim View Post

    How do you handle these bad apples?
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Samrath Gupta View Post

      I LOVE THIS IDEA LOL.... GOING TO BUY A GUN SOON
      If you do, plan on spending enough time and money to be competent with it under pressure. Otherwise, it's quite likely that an assailant who is competent with a weapon under pressure will take yours away from you and use it on you.

      At least, that's what the statistics say...
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      • Profile picture of the author BackLinkiT
        One thing I have learnt over time is that some people are just gratuitously nasty for no apparent reason. Don't take it personally, that's all I can say, really.

        Forget it and have a great Christmas!

        Peter
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      • Profile picture of the author bretski
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        If you do, plan on spending enough time and money to be competent with it under pressure. Otherwise, it's quite likely that an assailant who is competent with a weapon under pressure will take yours away from you and use it on you.

        At least, that's what the statistics say...
        And make sure they are completely inside your house. Buddy of mine is doing time for defending his home and two small children from an idiot because he didn't wait for him to take that last step inside the house after destroying my buddy's truck, smashing out all the windows in the front of his house and then the front door with a baseball bat... and competency with a shotgun under pressure isn't difficult.

        All of this brings to light the question of whether you should or shouldn't use your real name when marketing and whether or not you should use your real address on autoresponder emails.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Magim, you are not dealing with a rational person.
        I agree with John.

        I would not just try to forget something like this and do nothing about it. Unless you are omniscient you don't actually know if the person is serious or not. Report it first. Nothing you can say or do will cool the person down as much as a talk with the local authorities.

        I'm not sure about the wisdom of a gun. The most likely people to die from a gun in the home are the people who live in the home. We all make mistakes and screw things up. A mistake with a gun can be one you don't recover from.
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      • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        If you do, plan on spending enough time and money to be competent with it under pressure. Otherwise, it's quite likely that an assailant who is competent with a weapon under pressure will take yours away from you and use it on you.

        At least, that's what the statistics say...
        It's quite easy (in Michigan at least) to get a PO Box as well as a concealed pistol permit. If one fails you it's reassuring having the other.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    TY John.

    Definitely visit the shooting range frequently until you are comfortable with it, and like John said you need to know how to react under pressure. You should also take your significant other with you, teach them how to use it too. After all, it doesn't do them any good if you are away from home and something should happen.

    And ALWAYS clean your pistol after using it.

    I can break mine down, clean everything and put it back together in under 10 minutes.

    This prevents powder residue from building up on the slide that leads the bullet into the chamber, which in turn prevents jamming.

    Even if you do have a GLOCK, it can still jam without proper maintenance AND without proper handling. You can't limp-wrist it (meaning make sure you have a firm grip when firing.)

    OH - and you should also take a concealed weapons class so you can legally carry it on you.

    And I dont know about all Americans, but I definitely love guns. lol I'm sure you can tell..

    One more thing - if you have children, PLEASE keep it out of their reach.
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    • Profile picture of the author NateRivers
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      TY John.



      Even if you do have a GLOCK, it can still jam without proper maintenance AND without proper handling. You can't limp-wrist it (meaning make sure you have a firm grip when firing.)
      That's exactly why I choose a hammerless revolver for concealed carry- to each his own.

      And to the OP- like everyone else has said, there's just nothing you can do to prevent that stuff except close up your shop- keep doing your thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Buddy of mine is doing time for defending his home and two small children from an idiot because he didn't wait for him to take that last step inside the house
    I know laws are different based on location, but in this state there are Doctrine laws in place to protect you from being prosecuted in case you should have to use deadly force to protect yourself, your family, OR your property.

    I'm not waiting until they enter my house.. There is no telling what sort of diseases people could have, and I'm the one who has to live here after everything is over. I dont want to clean that mess up.

    Your friend did the right thing in my opinion. It just sucks that the judicial system didn't agree.

    You can either be judged by 12 or carried by 6..

    I'd take the 12 any day.
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    • Profile picture of the author Andy Hart
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post


      You can either be judged by 12 or carried by 6..

      I'd take the 12 any day.
      That's a fantastic quote, never heard that before but really do like it, where's it from??
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    • Profile picture of the author richjr72
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      I know laws are different based on location, but in this state there are Doctrine laws in place to protect you from being prosecuted in case you should have to use deadly force to protect yourself, your family, OR your property.
      That is why I love Florida. haha

      I have had my share of death threats too. My death threats come from Youtube. I do gaming footage on Youtube. I guess instead of hitting the back button, they'd rather make threats. I just laugh about it. It's sad.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    That's his fault for "betting everything" on anything. This guy is obviously very unstable if he would make a death threat over a product. That being said, you need to take it seriosuly, and that's because anybody that would make a death threat over something that small may just be crazy enough to carry it out. Gather as much information on this person as you can and document everything. Then, contact the authorities and have him locked away where he belongs.
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  • Profile picture of the author stevea7777
    Sounds like the guy needs a little Christmas cheer. You'll always get crazys like this but you can't let it keep you from doing what you love. As long as you're promoting good products and have good disclaimers on your sites and offer refunds for anyone not happy with your product, it's his problem. But I would suggest, as others have, to be careful about too full disclosure for you and your family's sake.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Tanner
    This is how you deal with guys like that...


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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    LOL Brandon

    Chuck Norris has really been dead for 20 years. Death is just too afraid to tell him.
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Buying a gun is not the solution.

      I thoroughly despise US laws.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
        Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

        Buying a gun is not the solution.

        I thoroughly despise US laws.

        Well, Daniel, you're in the UK, so its not a problem, right?

        I am forever grateful we enjoy the protections of the Second Amendment to the Constitution here in the US.
        It has kept us a free people for 230 years...

        _____
        Bruce
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      • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

        Buying a gun is not the solution.

        I thoroughly despise US laws.
        You clearly aren't a fan of common sense, or self preservation either. That's what happens when you're a slave to the state all your life.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by megalinktraffic View Post

          there is a saying that barking d_gs don't bite!
          that's it..
          I'm afraid I have scars to prove that that particular saying is wrong. Make the wrong move, and it takes just a second for that barking dog to start chewing...
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
          Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

          You clearly aren't a fan of common sense, or self preservation either. That's what happens when you're a slave to the state all your life.
          If you feel the need to possess a firearm then you're a slave to a culture which preserves and perpetuates fear.

          It's your sure sign your culture is a complete and utter mess when people so readily suggest to go and buy a firearm after some spineless fool makes a few frantic keypresses to someone on a computer and a considerable amount of people condone it. Indoctrination at it's very finest. Certainly not the free spirits you are trying to depict yourselves as by any means.

          Maybe it would take a worst case scenario for people to think otherwise. Unfortunately that's how people usually learn most effectively,which is a shame - like those families who pat their sons and daughters on the back when they enter into the military only to stopping to think, question and complain when the crap hits the fan and someone is hurt.

          Here in the UK we don't have to go to bed with guns for the simple reason that they aren't made readily available and thus the next person isn't likely to have one. What is this common sense you speak of?
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          • Profile picture of the author bretski
            Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

            It's your sure sign your culture is a complete and utter mess when people so readily suggest to go and buy a firearm after some spineless fool makes a few frantic keypresses to someone on a computer and a considerable amount of people condone it. Indoctrination at it's very finest. Certainly not the free spirits you are trying to depict yourselves as by any means.
            Guns can be a very good deterent to violent crime. There is a town in Georgia, I belive it is, where all resident are required to own and carry firearms. There is zero crime.

            Just think about it logically... if the thought to do someone harm does come across someone's mind and they are angry and crazy enough to document it, there is intent. As the person on the receiving end of that threat, if you do not take that threat seriously then there is something wrong with your self-preservation instinct.
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            • Profile picture of the author King Zultar
              Originally Posted by bretski View Post

              Guns can be a very good deterent to violent crime. There is a town in Georgia, I belive it is, where all resident are required to own and carry firearms. There is zero crime.
              Kennesaw IIRC.
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            • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
              Originally Posted by bretski View Post

              Guns can be a very good deterent to violent crime. There is a town in Georgia, I belive it is, where all resident are required to own and carry firearms. There is zero crime.

              Just think about it logically... if the thought to do someone harm does come across someone's mind and they are angry and crazy enough to document it, there is intent. As the person on the receiving end of that threat, if you do not take that threat seriously then there is something wrong with your self-preservation instinct.
              Lol. Reminds me of an "All In the Family" Episode.

              Archie says - "I could stop airline hijackings right now. Arm all the passengers at takeoff and collect them all when you land".

              Lol - nice logic.

              I know people in the States value their right to bear arms and can respect it. However more guns equals more violent death. The statistics bear it out.

              As for imigrants all being armed so everyone else needs to be. The answer is fix the problem at the source. Not arm everyone else to protect against the bad, bad illegal immigramts.
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              • Profile picture of the author King Zultar
                Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

                I know people in the States value their right to bear arms and can respect it. However more guns equals more violent death. The statistics bear it out.
                I'm in Orkney, an island archipelago off the top of Scotland. We have the highest level of legal gun ownership in Scotland and the UK. Lots and lots of guns here, yet most people literally don't lock their doors. The highest violent crime parts of the UK are invariably areas with very low levels of legitimate gun ownership. I'm not claiming there's a causative relationship there, but, given that probably one in four homes has a firearm of some sort (and some many), this place ought to be a war zone. In reality I have friends who don't lock their doors when they go away on vacation.

                If you look at Switzerland, since the 19th century every Swiss male of military age had to have a firearm at home - latterly typically a selective fire rifle and ammunition. In the 1980s their militia had a mobilisation strength of over 600k (only 15k regulars) so that is a lot of fully automatic weapons in private homes. You could buy pretty well anything over the counter until 1998 when certain classes of firearm were restricted. I think they still have concealed carry there. Do you associate Switzerland with armed crime, societal breakdown etc? The areas of the USA with the most permissive gun laws are almost always the lowest violent crime areas. Why do you think that is?

                KZ
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                • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
                  Originally Posted by King Zultar View Post

                  If you look at Switzerland, since the 19th century every Swiss male of military age had to have a firearm at home - latterly typically a selective fire rifle and ammunition. In the 1980s their militia had a mobilisation strength of over 600k (only 15k regulars) so that is a lot of fully automatic weapons in private homes. You could buy pretty well anything over the counter until 1998 when certain classes of firearm were restricted. I think they still have concealed carry there. Do you associate Switzerland with armed crime, societal breakdown etc? The areas of the USA with the most permissive gun laws are almost always the lowest violent crime areas. Why do you think that is?
                  KZ
                  Probably not the best of examples to have used. Switzerland has the highest firearms-related death rate in Europe apart from Northern Ireland. Not evidence of societal breakdown perhaps but certainly a strong suggestion that mass ownership of guns can increase your chances of being killed by one.

                  Strangely though, in almost all countries where owning firearms is legal, or prevalent, the risk is not so much homicide or accident (although both are generally elevated), but suicide.

                  And with or without guns, the Swiss are sadly near the top of that particualar international list. List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  Martin
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                  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
                    Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

                    Probably not the best of examples to have used. Switzerland has the highest firearms-related death rate in Europe apart from Northern Ireland. Not evidence of societal breakdown perhaps but certainly a strong suggestion that mass ownership of guns can increase your chances of being killed by one.

                    Strangely though, in almost all countries where owning firearms is legal, or prevalent, the risk is not so much homicide or accident (although both are generally elevated), but suicide.

                    And with or without guns, the Swiss are sadly near the top of that particualar international list. List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                    Martin
                    My experience is that most of the people who are killed by guns did something to deserve to get shot.

                    My bottom line is this. If you attack my person, a family member, or try to break into my home, I'm going to take your head off with a cleanly aimed shot.
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            • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
              Originally Posted by bretski View Post

              Guns can be a very good deterent to violent crime. There is a town in Georgia, I belive it is, where all resident are required to own and carry firearms. There is zero crime.

              Just think about it logically... if the thought to do someone harm does come across someone's mind and they are angry and crazy enough to document it, there is intent. As the person on the receiving end of that threat, if you do not take that threat seriously then there is something wrong with your self-preservation instinct.
              Why are they required to own and carry firearms?

              I wasn't suggesting not to take the threat serious, rather reconsider going to an extreme.
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            • Profile picture of the author tpw
              Originally Posted by bretski View Post

              Guns can be a very good deterent to violent crime. There is a town in Georgia, I belive it is, where all resident are required to own and carry firearms. There is zero crime.

              Just think about it logically... if the thought to do someone harm does come across someone's mind and they are angry and crazy enough to document it, there is intent. As the person on the receiving end of that threat, if you do not take that threat seriously then there is something wrong with your self-preservation instinct.

              Conroe Texas did this too.

              It is a small town, just about 30 miles north of Houston TX.

              At the time, I remember them saying that in the previous year, home burglaries were 32. After they passed a law requiring all home-owners to have a loaded gun in their home, home burglaries dropped to 2 per year.

              I guess the local burglars decided that it was safer to do their work in Houston.

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      • Profile picture of the author BarryOnline
        Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

        Buying a gun is not the solution.

        I thoroughly despise US laws.
        Agree, if owning a gun keeps you safe, then the US should be one of the safest countries in the world.

        It's crazy the way you can just go buy a gun in the US, just gives bad people easy access to deadly weapons.
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        • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
          Originally Posted by BarryOnline View Post

          Agree, if owning a gun keeps you safe, then the US should be one of the safest countries in the world.

          It's crazy the way you can just go buy a gun in the US, just gives bad people easy access to deadly weapons.
          So, you want to talk violent crime...

          In the UK, there are 2,034 offenses per 100,000 people.

          The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents.

          People don't need guns to do bad things.

          I think the fact that you may get your head blown off in the U.S. might have something to do with those numbers. I'll take the right to carry over the alternative any day of the week.
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          • Profile picture of the author BarryOnline
            Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

            So, you want to talk violent crime...

            In the UK, there are 2,034 offenses per 100,000 people.

            The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents.

            People don't need guns to do bad things.

            I think the fact that you may get your head blown off in the U.S. might have something to do with those numbers. I'll take the right to carry over the alternative any day of the week.
            Of course people don't need guns to do bad things, but guns give bad or crazy people a tool to do more damage.

            Those figures just show there's less violent crime in the US compared to the UK, not that less people are shot and killed in the US compared to the UK.

            Those figures are off anyway because crime is reported and measured in diffenent ways between countries. For example, affray is considered a violent crime in the UK. So if I say to someone "I'll kick your ass" I could be arrested for affray and charged with a voilent cime. How many out of those 2,034 offences could be affray?

            Still feel safer in the UK, I would rather get into a fist fight than a fire fight.
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            • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
              Originally Posted by BarryOnline View Post

              Still feel safer in the UK
              The beautiful part about that is nobody is forcing you to leave there and move here

              Merry Christmas. On to happier conversations now. I could debate this topic until the cows come home, but I would have to put on my serious face. I've had waaaay too many little tiny glasses of whatever the heck that stuff was they were serving, so let's play nice and sing a holiday song.

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          • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
            Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

            So, you want to talk violent crime...

            In the UK, there are 2,034 offenses per 100,000 people.

            The U.S. has a violence rate of 466 crimes per 100,000 residents.

            People don't need guns to do bad things.

            I think the fact that you may get your head blown off in the U.S. might have something to do with those numbers. I'll take the right to carry over the alternative any day of the week.
            You are way off.

            Look at the statistics and who is near the top and who is near the bottom.

            Take into account gun laws and you see who is safer.
            List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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            • Well, we live in Idaho, so not only does everyone own a gun, but the kids have gun safety classes in school. Children around here are raised to know that guns are tools and to appreciate them as such. To say that having a gun in your home (or at someone else's house) is a threat to children is to fail to recognize that there are many things in any home that can be a threat to children if they aren't taught to respect them. My husband's power tools could be a serious threat to our children if they don't know how to behave around them (and if we don't act responsibly in how/where we use them and how we teach the children about them).

              Heck, I got the hubby a shirt for Christmas this year that says "Guns Don't Kill People... Dads With Pretty Daughters Do!"

              Just a warning about restraining orders... yes, you want to have them on record, but do NOT count on them to actually protect you. Had a restraining order against my psycho ex and after he violated it several dozen times (I actually had cards printed up that had our case #, the restraining order #, a physical description of him and his vehicle and all of his legal information on it because I got tired of having to explain it every time) we went to the court and were told, "A restraining order is just a piece of paper, there is nothing we can actually do to enforce it, just keep calling the police every time he violates it." I thought my current husband was going to tear the clerk's throat out when he said that!

              So, as the daughter of two police officers, I know that I can't rely on big city police to save my butt (part of why we moved to Idaho, many states away from the psycho and haven't been bothered since. If he showed up in our tiny little town, I'd have about a dozen big farmers/ranchers with their shotguns at my side faster than he could get to me.)
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
          Originally Posted by BarryOnline View Post

          Agree, if owning a gun keeps you safe, then the US should be one of the safest countries in the world.

          It's crazy the way you can just go buy a gun in the US, just gives bad people easy access to deadly weapons.
          Indeed. I think the hypothesis we can draw is:

          We need to be born outside of the box to think outside of the box.
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          • Profile picture of the author King Zultar
            Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

            Indeed. I think the hypothesis we can draw is:

            We need to be born outside of the box to think outside of the box.
            Part of that hypothesis is that the UK (the box I was born in - but I've lived in a place with radically different ideas on 'gun control') is just as much of a 'box' as the USA - if anything it's a smaller one. Most of us tend to treat other cultures and their norms subjectively.

            Objectively, there is little inference one can draw from rates of gun ownership within the UK or elsewhere and crime. That a thriving modern democracy with almost universal fully automatic weapons ownership has very low armed crime compared to other countries that outlaw civilian ownership altogether disproves a simplistic "More guns = more violence" model. The trouble is that we have been so indoctrinated with the latter view by successive governments since 1920 that trying to convince folk here (other than those that already own guns, which includes a suprising number of serving and ex law enforcement types) that there are other ways of doing business is like trying to discuss whale evolution with a Jehova's Witness.

            You might want to reflect on the fact that we have vastly higher armed crime here in the UK after enacting some of the most restrictive/punitive firearms legislation than we did before we enacted it.
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      • Profile picture of the author AnthonyCurtis
        Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

        Yes, the US gun laws are much too restrictive.
        Not in Texas. Everyone's got a gun here...
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        • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
          Originally Posted by DimeSaleDotNet View Post

          Not in Texas. Everyone's got a gun here...

          This is incredibly disturbing. A 4 year old carrying an AK 47 or whatever it is? I live in Texas and yes, most people here have guns. In fact, I live in the deer hunting capital of the world. I often wonder why it takes a machine gun to kill an animal.

          The economy is in bad shape. Maybe this guy had very little money and bought your product but did not put the time nor effort involved to make it work.

          People are doing things now they never would have thought about doing before. Without a job, unemployment is rising, no way to take care of your family, it tends to make a person do things they wouldn't in their "right" mind.

          Not sure if you have refunded the buyer's money, no idea how unstable this guy is, but what if you were able to determine what exactly he did that went wrong. Maybe you can help him.

          This forum is about helping people.
          Why is it any different to help someone who is not on this forum.

          Is this guy serious about the death threat? No one knows. Would he expect a helping hand? Probably not.

          But what if all he needed was some guidance - a giving person to help him?
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          • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
            Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post


            People are doing things now they never would have thought about doing before. Without a job, unemployment is rising, no way to take care of your family, it tends to make a person do things they wouldn't in their "right" mind.

            Not sure if you have refunded the buyer's money, no idea how unstable this guy is, but what if you were able to determine what exactly he did that went wrong. Maybe you can help him.

            This forum is about helping people.
            Why is it any different to help someone who is not on this forum.
            Most people would consider a death threat a reasonable excuse to forfeit a customer's right to getting help.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
              Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

              Most people would consider a death threat a reasonable excuse to forfeit a customer's right to getting help.
              We do not know the specifics of the communications between the OP and his client. We don't know the product he sold, the price, etc. There are many unknowns in this situation.

              I agree, most people would agree that a death threat is a reasonable excuse not to help a customer.
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          • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

            This is incredibly disturbing. A 4 year old carrying an AK 47 or whatever it is?
            ...Somehow I get the feeling that the above image was Photoshopped, and meant to be humorous.
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          • Profile picture of the author tpw
            Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

            I often wonder why it takes a machine gun to kill an animal.

            I think the only animal that it is legal to use a machine gun to kill is human... Legal, if one is in the military that is... :p
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            • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
              Originally Posted by tpw View Post

              I think the only animal that it is legal to use a machine gun to kill is human... Legal, if one is in the military that is... :p
              I didn't say anything about a machine gun being legal to kill an animal. I said: "I often wonder why it takes a machine gun to kill an animal."
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              • Profile picture of the author tpw
                Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

                I didn't say anything about a machine gun being legal to kill an animal. I said: "I often wonder why it takes a machine gun to kill an animal."

                I do realize that, and my point was that I have never heard of people actually using machine guns to kill animals.

                Using an automated weapon to kill an animal is illegal in most, if not all, of the states in the United States.

                To be honest, I cannot imagine anyone who kills an animal for food wanting to use a machine gun for the kill.
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                • Profile picture of the author bretski
                  Originally Posted by tpw View Post

                  I do realize that, and my point was that I have never heard of people actually using machine guns to kill animals.

                  Using an automated weapon to kill an animal is illegal in most, if not all, of the states in the United States.

                  To be honest, I cannot imagine anyone who kills an animal for food wanting to use a machine gun for the kill.
                  Full auto is outlawed in most states except if you have a permit, I believe. Semi-auto is also a no-no if you're hunting I believe unless you're handicapped and can't work the bolt on a rifle.... and crossbows during bow season if you're handicapped.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

            This is incredibly disturbing. A 4 year old carrying an AK 47 or whatever it is? I live in Texas and yes, most people here have guns. In fact, I live in the deer hunting capital of the world. I often wonder why it takes a machine gun to kill an animal.

            The economy is in bad shape. Maybe this guy had very little money and bought your product but did not put the time nor effort involved to make it work.

            People are doing things now they never would have thought about doing before. Without a job, unemployment is rising, no way to take care of your family, it tends to make a person do things they wouldn't in their "right" mind.

            Not sure if you have refunded the buyer's money, no idea how unstable this guy is, but what if you were able to determine what exactly he did that went wrong. Maybe you can help him.


            But what if all he needed was some guidance - a giving person to help him?
            Lori - Your feelings of humanity and empathy here are extremely dangerous. It is wonderful to want to help people - the world would be a better place for it. But you seem not understand that when a person's head is not right, they will not always respond to kindness in like. There are humans that will torture others to death - do you think that someone so incredibly unbalanced will respond with kindness to kindness? There are those not capable of feelings in the way you are -- to think otherwise can be deadly.

            When I worked at the crisis center I saw many women in hospitals, completely mangled by people they were nice to and tried to help, both strangers and loved ones. Others were just killed. Period.

            One of the things I did at the crisis center was to teach women self-defense - not to make martial arts masters out of them - but to get it through their heads that when someone attacks you, you are in danger - the proper response is self-defense --NOT empathy. Empathizing with the wrong person is a sure way to get yourself killed. You would not believe how many killed by home intruders are killed because they don't want to shoot another human and hesitate just long enough to have their weapon taken and are killed by their own weapon because they wanted to defend themselves but are just too "nice" to be able to understand the complete danger of another person.

            At the crisis center I would show a woman - "If he grabs you like this, you do this....." and they would often say "I couldn't do that, I might kill him". The only answer is "Yeah you might, but when it comes to a point you have to use a move like this - the creature attacking you is NOT worried about your health and well-being.

            I know you are a wonderful person, Lori - but always remember that it doesn't take a terrorist to cut you to shreds and laugh while doing it. You have to make room in your intellect, and in your heart, to recognize evil and danger - and to understand that just because it walks in human form, does not make it human. Your life may depend on you understanding that at some time.

            As far as guns - my father taught me to shoot his rifle when I was 4 years old. Ignorance of weapons does not keep a kid safe - or anyone else around the kid. I was also allowed to keep a jack knife and taught to use it and when I cut all four fingers with it I was scolded for being stupid and careless. In a collapse of a society, kids sometimes need the skills to survive without adults around - and this society is in collapse.

            Machine guns - might not need it to put food on the table, but our congress just took away habeas corpus, posse comatatus, and due process (i.e. Rule of Law). There may come a time during your lifetime that you will be very grateful that our citizens have them.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
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            • Profile picture of the author Lori Kelly
              [quote=HeySal;5309754]
              Lori - Your feelings of humanity and empathy here are extremely dangerous. It is wonderful to want to help people - the world would be a better place for it. But you seem not understand that when a person's head is not right, they will not always respond to kindness in like. There are humans that will torture others to death - do you think that someone so incredibly unbalanced will respond with kindness to kindness? There are those not capable of feelings in the way you are -- to think otherwise can be deadly.
              Hi Sal. I'm not naive and I do know there are people in this world who are truly evil. No one knows if the customer would respond with kindness to kindness.

              My first marriage was to a psychopath and there is not a doubt in my mind he would have killed me if I stayed. He beat the **** out of me, threatened my life and hunted me down when I left him. When he found me, he kicked in my apartment door and I was holding a shot gun and there is not a doubt in my mind that if he did not leave, I would have pulled that trigger.

              I lived in some pretty shady places when I was young and I learned self defense and trained to utilize both the skills and developed the mental aspect of the effectiveness of the art. If me or any of my family members are ever in a situation that our lives our threatened, I will protect me and my family at all costs.

              That law did pass and I did everything I could advocating against it. I called my State Senators, Congressmen and the Whitehouse. I posted a call to action on my forum.

              The "humorous" photo of kids holding guns scares the hell out of me. Last year when my kid was attending elementary school, a kid brought a gun to school. I don't find that humorous.
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              • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
                Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post

                I gotta say shocked by the amount of people who own or carry guns, an alien concept to use in Europe.

                Interesting to read about the gun culture though, quite an eye opener

                thanks guys
                Instead of 'gun culture', you should name it what it really is - the 'self-preservation' culture. We realize that in a truly life-threatening situation, the police will arrive in time to identify our bodies, not in time to keep us from acquiring that condition.

                Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

                Buying a gun is not the solution.

                I thoroughly despise US laws.
                True enough. Buying a gun is only the start. You'd have to learn to use it, and have the will to use it.

                Originally Posted by BarryOnline View Post

                Agree, if owning a gun keeps you safe, then the US should be one of the safest countries in the world.

                It's crazy the way you can just go buy a gun in the US, just gives bad people easy access to deadly weapons.
                IMHO, one of the reasons that the US is not the safest country in the world is that the citizenry is actively discouraged from defending and protecting themselves, being told to rely on law enforcement. Unfortunately, the bad guys know this. "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

                Originally Posted by nickdamodda View Post

                Well I live in California, so it isn't the same around here as the Midwest :/ Any suggestions now? The gun laws here are crazy.
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                [...]One of the things I did at the crisis center was to teach women self-defense - not to make martial arts masters out of them - but to get it through their heads that when someone attacks you, you are in danger - the proper response is self-defense --NOT empathy. Empathizing with the wrong person is a sure way to get yourself killed. You would not believe how many killed by home intruders are killed because they don't want to shoot another human and hesitate just long enough to have their weapon taken and are killed by their own weapon because they wanted to defend themselves but are just too "nice" to be able to understand the complete danger of another person.

                At the crisis center I would show a woman - "If he grabs you like this, you do this....." and they would often say "I couldn't do that, I might kill him". The only answer is "Yeah you might, but when it comes to a point you have to use a move like this - the creature attacking you is NOT worried about your health and well-being. [...]
                I've had the same experience. I've come to the unfortunate conclusion that the vast majority of people - women AND men - don't possess the willingness to aggressively defend themselves in a desperate situation. They either aren't willing or able to be utterly ruthless when their lives are in danger, or they're afraid of the legal consequences that may rain down on them if they do act.

                Most women looked at me in abject horror when I began to instruct them on how to repel an attacker - slashing throats and eyes with keys, biting and tearing off noses and ears, etc. They don't want to hurt their attacker, they just want to get away. To their credit, they are civilized, caring people - but because of that, because of their inability to be uncivilized when the circumstances require it, they'll be at the mercy of anyone who isn't.

                Originally Posted by Lori Kelly View Post

                Hi Sal. I'm not naive and I do know there are people in this world who are truly evil. No one knows if the customer would respond with kindness to kindness.

                My first marriage was to a psychopath and there is not a doubt in my mind he would have killed me if I stayed. He beat the **** out of me, threatened my life and hunted me down when I left him. When he found me, he kicked in my apartment door and I was holding a shot gun and there is not a doubt in my mind that if he did not leave, I would have pulled that trigger.

                I lived in some pretty shady places when I was young and I learned self defense and trained to utilize both the skills and developed the mental aspect of the effectiveness of the art. If me or any of my family members are ever in a situation that our lives our threatened, I will protect me and my family at all costs.
                If more people were like you - willing and able to protect themselves and their families - I think there would be less crime than there is, especially when would-be criminals learn that there could be a higher consequence to their actions than there is now. That you have had the experiences you've had, and still have the compassion and willingness to look to "treat meanness with kindness" solutions is a testament to your character.

                ###

                I keep weapons in my house. They are NOT locked away from my kids (teenage boys), and they ARE loaded, with a round in the chamber, at all times. They are somewhat hidden, but are easily accessible if and when they are needed. My family has been trained how to use them effectively, and when. They know that if they have to shoot someone, the result won't be pretty, but they are prepared for that as best they can be. They take the capability of ending a life very seriously, but also understand that while it is very unlikely, at some point in time it may be necessary.

                I find it very disheartening to have to discuss this kind of thing on a marketing forum. We tend to think that there is at least some semblance of insulation from the crazies of the world because of the relative isolation we have.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                [quote=Lori Kelly;5310007]
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post


                Hi Sal. I'm not naive and I do know there are people in this world who are truly evil. No one knows if the customer would respond with kindness to kindness.

                My first marriage was to a psychopath and there is not a doubt in my mind he would have killed me if I stayed. He beat the **** out of me, threatened my life and hunted me down when I left him. When he found me, he kicked in my apartment door and I was holding a shot gun and there is not a doubt in my mind that if he did not leave, I would have pulled that trigger.

                I lived in some pretty shady places when I was young and I learned self defense and trained to utilize both the skills and developed the mental aspect of the effectiveness of the art. If me or any of my family members are ever in a situation that our lives our threatened, I will protect me and my family at all costs.

                That law did pass and I did everything I could advocating against it. I called my State Senators, Congressmen and the Whitehouse. I posted a call to action on my forum.

                The "humorous" photo of kids holding guns scares the hell out of me. Last year when my kid was attending elementary school, a kid brought a gun to school. I don't find that humorous.
                Makes me feel better to hear that, Lori -- not the part about having a nutcase for an ex, but that you are able and willing to protect yourself.

                Kids with guns at school are scary. Kids with guns aren't inherently scary to me. Kids who have not been taught correctly and have unstable home lives with guns do. Unfortunately, most people feel more horror with the idea of shooting a child who is dangerous than an adult. Look at the reaction vets got when returning from the Viet Nam war because they had to shoot "babies" - but when the kid approaching you is likely to be harboring a hand grenade, there isn't much sense to those "awe, but it's just a baby" reactions. Cold real world facts aren't always pretty. I feel no more emotion at having to aim a gun at a kid who is threatening my life than an adult. A kid like that is just a really screwed up adult waiting to happen.
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      • Profile picture of the author hitesh93
        Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

        Buying a gun is not the solution.

        I thoroughly despise US laws.
        You're right. Buying a gun is not the solution. Shooting an intruder with it is.
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        • Profile picture of the author tpw
          Originally Posted by hitesh93 View Post

          You're right. Buying a gun is not the solution. Shooting an intruder with it is.

          LOL

          You have just made my day... :p
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
          Originally Posted by hitesh93 View Post

          You're right. Buying a gun is not the solution. Shooting an intruder with it is.
          They don't usually permit the use of firearms behind bars so I'm hoping if a fired bullet happens to go astray into someones vital organs (the attacker or otherwise) you can stand your ground without one within that environment. It's certainly likely for the sole fact the next person won't have one.

          In a hypothetical circumstance, I guess shooting you would be the intruders solution, hence the severity of your supposed retaliation and the fact that they are carrying a gun in the first place. Note the pattern.

          Ah well, "fire with fire" seems to be the general consensus with no clear view that the fire itself is the root of the problem where both parties are blindly normalizing a level of violence which demands them both to own the same kind of deadly tools.

          Wonders will never cease - nor will our displays of bravado.
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          • Profile picture of the author King Zultar
            Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

            In a hypothetical circumstance, I guess shooting you would be the intruders solution, hence the severity of your supposed retaliation and the fact that they are carrying a gun in the first place. Note the pattern.
            That would be the case all things being equal. However, in reality, they're not.

            There are very stiff penalties for armed intrusion, attempting to rob/assault/rape someone, shooting them whilst attempting to do any of the above to them etc. There are not (or should not be) penalties for shooting an intruder from whom you feel an immediate threat (at least one state allows you to shoot a fleeing burglar if you believe he has your property). Shooting you immediately lines that burglar up for a very strong sentence (up to and including death). Career and natural-selection wise, moving to an area that outlaws gun ownership for defence or establishing that a home is empty before breaking into it starts looking like a very sensible career choice.

            You can argue that there are scenarios where a defensive firearm would be useless - for instance if someone sneaked up behind you and spontaneously shot you in the head. You have to ask yourself how likely such scenarios are compared with having to deal with a potentially armed home invasion (and lets face it, having a gun to face an unarmed home invasion isn't a bad outcome).

            On a macro scale we could argue that Russia could fire its entire nuclear arsenal at the UK despite our having Trident. That doesn't stop us having Trident as a deterrent on the rational hypothesis that Russia is lead by rational individuals. There are other reasons to have Trident, but they are IMHO outside the realm of analogy with gun control.
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      • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
        Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

        Buying a gun is not the solution.

        I thoroughly despise US laws.
        I LOVE US gun laws. I live in Arizona, and you don't even need a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Look closely at the small of people's backs out here and I'd say at least 50% of males in Arizona have a piece there or around their ankle. You need to have protection because there are a lot of cartel members, Mexican gangs, and tweakers out here in Phoenix. I never leave home without my gat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Pretty
    Originally Posted by Magim View Post

    So here's a first for me.

    I received an email today from some guy telling me how he "bet everything he had on my s---ty product" and how it "ruined his life" and how he's going to basically come over to my house and kill me.
    Call the police. Ask them to send an officer to your home. The email is evidence. Preserve it. You have described a death threat and a person who has directed an "extreme level of vitriol" at you.

    Such a person might be emailing threats to others, which is one of the reasons the police need to have a record of your experience. It may be important that this incident coincided with a holiday.

    Ask the police for some guidance moving forward. They may have an existing protocol for incidents such as these.

    Patrick
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    @Willie, Rugers are nice too. I just like GLOCK because of the high capacity mags & because there is no safety. The gun itself IS the safety, as you know. Thats why they are called Safe-Action pistols.

    Although I was at the shooting range a few years back, the guy next to me had an Uzi that would shoot both 40 cal & 9mm rounds, without having to change a thing. He let me shoot it in exchange for shooting my Model 22 - And let me tell you, man, that Uzi was SICK!!!!!!!!!! <3

    @Daniel, I didn't say it was the SOLUTION. I said it was an OPTION. "You should invest in a gun" is not the same as "You have to invest in a gun"

    Obviously just because I like them doesnt mean everybody has to feel the same way.
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  • Profile picture of the author wfoutsourcing
    Unfortunately, some people really do believe that there is a such thing as "get rich quick", and they never bother to read the rest of the strategy for making money, then suddenly when they are not over-night millionaires, it becomes your fault.
    Man, whatever happened to personal accountability, where people actually took the blame for their own mistakes? Seems like these days everyone is looking for a convenient person to blame for their problems, which is what it sounds like this guy did with you, and I am so sorry for that.
    Report him to the authorities, and definitely keep your defenses on guard, lock your doors, and get some form of personal protection (carry it legally though!), and be careful going places alone, and if you do, always let someone know where your going to be. Although the guy was probably just blowing off steam or trying to bully you, it never hurts to be cautious. Please be safe and keep us up to date on the situation, you experiences may help save someone else's life someday.
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  • Profile picture of the author dougb
    I knew there were some a## holes out there but not to that extent, there is lots of good info here, I am going to check out PO boxes real soon. For any major threat at the very least inform the police and get a file number from them, even if you believe it is not real. In this day and age none of us ever really know for sure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    edit:

    Nevermind, I just re-read your post and I missed the "revolver" part.

    I dont like revolvers, but yea like you said to each their own. haha
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene43
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Buchinski
      I worked in a police station when one highly trained officer killed another who was also his best friend. It was an extremely sad accident. The gun was a Glock, but the nature of the accident had nothing to do with that.

      Highly trained or not, we all have moments of distraction.

      Originally Posted by Gene43 View Post

      One thing I have learnt over time is that some people are just gratuitously nasty for no apparent reason. Don't take it personally, that's all I can say, really.

      Forget it and have a great Christmas!
      What's with the invisible images in your post? (which I've deleted from the quote) They don't seem to serve any purpose.
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
        Originally Posted by Lloyd Buchinski View Post

        I worked in a police station when one highly trained officer killed another who was also his best friend. It was an extremely sad accident. The gun was a Glock, but the nature of the accident had nothing to do with that.

        Highly trained or not, we all have moments of distraction.



        What's with the invisible images in your post? (which I've deleted from the quote) They don't seem to serve any purpose.
        That would be cookie stuffing. They tend to pop up in "popular" threads.

        Report the posts that he had the invisible images in by clicking the button - The mods will be able to find out if he was cookie stuffing or not.

        Although I'm pretty sure he was.. Why else would it be invisible, ya know?

        That is NOT allowed here. I'm all for some BH stuff, but that is one thing even I wont do.
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      • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
        Originally Posted by Lloyd Buchinski View Post

        I worked in a police station when one highly trained officer killed another who was also his best friend. It was an extremely sad accident. The gun was a Glock, but the nature of the accident had nothing to do with that.

        Highly trained or not, we all have moments of distraction.



        What's with the invisible images in your post? (which I've deleted from the quote) They don't seem to serve any purpose.
        He was cookiestuffing Godaddy and Hostgator, pretty smart actually
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          pretty smart actually
          Not if you plan to stay here
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by JackPowers View Post

          He was cookiestuffing Godaddy and Hostgator, pretty smart actually
          It's pretty much an instant ban here, so not particularly smart.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            Seems to me if you are truly concerned, there's one way that might work.

            A copy of the email along with customers name/address as a simple report to police to be put on file. Then let the customer know you don't take threats lightly and have made a police report that includes his name/address.

            I would not expect police anywhere to jump into action over an angry email - but knowing his name is now "on record" could be a light bulb moment for him.

            kay
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          • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

            It's pretty much an instant ban here, so not particularly smart.
            I appreciate the technical skill involved.
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        • Profile picture of the author Shane Hon
          I don't think he really bet "everything he had" Did he ask for a refund? Sounds like he has been dissapointed with other products before he got yours as someone doesn't really blow his top at the very first product. So, what is he expecting from products?
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        • Profile picture of the author sirtom
          All this talk of violence and such makes me want to go buy a gun and hit up the shooting range..

          And on another note, never had anyone hate on me to that degree.. It would take a lot to get that mad at a product though, especially because if it was THAT bad, you have no one to blame but yourself if you kept going through it WHILE it was ruining your life.

          In the response to said customer, I'd have mentioned the 30-day money-back guarantee

          Well, off to play MW3.

          -Tom
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by sirtom View Post

            In the response to said customer, I'd have mentioned the 30-day money-back guarantee

            Well, off to play MW3.

            -Tom
            If the guy is really unbalanced, you could just make the situation worse. Picture it...

            "I bet everything I have on what you put in your product, and I lost everything. You ruined my life. I'm going to kill you."

            "Did I mention that the product has a 30-day money back guarantee?"

            "WTF?"
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  • Profile picture of the author JackPowers
    Death threats are way past my comfort zone, would report to police right away.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aesop87
    Haters gonna hate.

    I think of death threats as a symptom of your hard work paying off. Once you put yourself out there, there are going to be people who disagree with you. Some will issue death threats, and most will be idle threats. I think genuine death threats are a rare phenomenon unless you cause a shockwave in a massive community of people. Social proof can have a dangerous effect on people's mindsets -- take the fatwa issued by Tehran against Salman Rushdie, for instance.

    You'll be fine. You've already responded gracefully and done your due diligence with this customer. I would move on, and call the authorities if he/she presses further. Don't let it get you down -- if your actions are just and you know them to be so, this incident should only serve to bolster your efforts. You're making an impact on people's lives, most likely for the better overall -- don't forget that.
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  • Profile picture of the author netguy12
    Just curious but are you selling picks?
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Originally Posted by Magim View Post

    Got a death threat today from an irate customer
    A customer actually killed me once, but I had the last laugh. Imagine his surprise when I came back to life.

    Seriously, a customer came to my door once. It was actually the husband of my customer. He demanded that I give back the fifteen hundred dollars that his wife spent on a pair of hearing aids. It was six months after she purchased. He said he just found out how much she paid and he wasn't having any of that. I called the police. He left when the police came, but crashed his car at the end of my street and got arrested for disorderly conduct. Good times.

    P.S. In line with all of my pro gun friends... my XD9 was tucked in the belt, just in case.
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  • Profile picture of the author Capitalist_Pig
    +1 on making sure you are able to defend yourself. Nothing else is important when compared to the safety of you and your family.
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  • Profile picture of the author evilsaigon
    You've handled well there. I guess you can only offer to help him out with the problems he faced, and ask him calm down and describe what exactly's going, cuz killing you is not gonna salvage his life...
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Killing me is against my TOS.
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  • Profile picture of the author Greenfatman
    That's why I love adsense and amazon ... It's hard to teach people make money online because you never know how they will act.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Weapons are not a bad idea at all. From my training and experience: when a person threatens, they aren't usually the most dangerous - the dangerous ones come with no warnings attached.

    I had a phone call once that was a death threat. He merely said "I'm going to kill you." So I asked him - "um...are you talking directly to me or is it one of the other people that live here you have a problem with?" He didn't say anything for a minute (not too bright if that question confused him). So finally he repeated himself "I am going to kill YOU" - with a little emphasis on the "you".

    My response was - "Oh, okay. Well thanks for the warning. Come on over. I'll be waiting for ya."

    As far as I am concerned, that is the only response that someone threatening your safety deserves or requires.

    After responding, make a copy of the email and the header and just drop it off at the local cop shop. You have just recorded that the person is a threat to your life and safety and if you do end up shooting a stranger (or electrocuting him, which happens to be my favorite form of weapon against intruders) who is causing a problem or being a potential threat, you have proof that you acted in justifiable self-defense.
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    I gotta say shocked by the amount of people who own or carry guns, an alien concept to use in Europe.

    Interesting to read about the gun culture though, quite an eye opener

    thanks guys
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    • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
      Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post

      I gotta say shocked by the amount of people who own or carry guns, an alien concept to use in Europe.

      Interesting to read about the gun culture though, quite an eye opener

      thanks guys
      Then you should head into states with heavy hunting populations. They may not own a single handgun for protection, but may have several shotguns and a couple of rifles, and are extremely good shots with them.

      I would definitely recommend notifying your local police, but assuming the person is in the USA it is technically in federal jurisdiction, if he is outside your state. Along with contacting local police you should request they forward a copy of your complaint to his local police department and the appropriate federal office with jurisdiction.

      Barry

      P.S. You may be protecting more than just yourself. If he is unstable about the purchase of your product he may be a danger to people around him.
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    • Profile picture of the author Willie Crawford
      Originally Posted by thesuccesscoach View Post

      I gotta say shocked by the amount of people who own or carry guns, an alien concept to use in Europe.

      Interesting to read about the gun culture though, quite an eye opener

      thanks guys
      In many instances, I prefer a compound bow Richard. It attracts
      less attention

      I am properly, formally trained on that too.

      Willie
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  • I received an email today from some guy telling me how he "bet everything he had on my s---ty product" and how it "ruined his life" and how he's going to basically come over to my house and kill me. (btw he doesn't have my address)

    I wouldn't be too sure about that. It took me two minutes to find your address.

    fLufF
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    Someone once threatened to half-kill me twice. Don't know if that was a death threat or not?
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Kelly
    Hi,

    When your dealing with death threats, there is no point engaging in discussion with the individual. It's best to report or ignore based on your assessment of the 'threat level'.

    cheers, Patrick
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    ^ Yup, it might be "smart" if you're thinking short term, but long term.. not so much.

    Anyway, merry christmas to all
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  • Profile picture of the author megalinktraffic
    there is a saying that barking d_gs don't bite!
    that's it..
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    I heard it from one of the foremen when I used to work with the water company.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eduard Stinga
    This aspect seriously scares the s**t out of me - I was actually planning to go further with this IM thing, use my real address and name, etc. but now I'm in a dilemma :/
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  • Profile picture of the author steve72b
    exactly. reply saying you notified authorities. What he wrote is a punishable threat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    Is it just me, or is the forum getting extra political today?

    Here, have some eggnog and chill out everyone.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

      Is it just me, or is the forum getting extra political today?

      Here, have some eggnog and chill out everyone.

      It can only get so political, and when it has become too political, the thread will be deleted.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisFrost
    One suggestion to avoid such situations was to use a post box.

    Too bad some countries have laws that force you to state a real address or even a private address as soon as a web site has any commercial interests.

    Seems there is no way to prevent such people from harassing you :/, isn't it?
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    I stopped spending time trying to justify to others why I own guns. If you don't like them, come and get them from me.

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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    So -- I'm curious. Magim - how much did the customer spring on this product that ruined his life anyhow?
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  • Profile picture of the author ian buckingham
    Wow, looks like some people really are proper nutcases....i think that they are the wrong mindset altogether too :-( i don't know what goes wrong with people but they sure do get wound up at times
    there is some good advice for me here too incase i get something like this happen!!
    i din't know it was so rife within the IM community ...it must have been quite a SHOCK to you and my heart goes out to you man
    keep on keeping on
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    Death threats?

    Ha ha! Try being a Warrior Forum Mod and then see how
    long it takes for the crazies to come out. ;-)

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Puppets seem to always get away with death threats...

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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    OP, hope you get that issue solved. Have you contacted authorities?
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  • Profile picture of the author PanamaRex
    As was said before ... offer a 30 or 60 day money back refund guarantee. Noone wants to feel as if they were "taken" by a product that didn't do what it said it would. If you haven't offered a refund, then do so right away.
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  • Profile picture of the author bluetechseo
    Although I have promoted Forex for a couple of years successfully I have not come across any death threats or any psychos yet but I always keep my personal details private.

    This is a lesson for all newbies to keep their details private even if it does cost that bit extra.

    I would contact a lawyer personally.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by bluetechseo View Post


      I would contact a lawyer personally.
      I was surprised no one's said that yet.

      That's the first thing I'd do... and let him/her decide the plan of action.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffanyLambert
    I got my first death threat this year. Some idiot got spam on his blog and whoever posted it put Tiffany Dow as the name. So he decided to let me know he was coming for me.

    After explaining that he was a moron, and why, I informed him that I had sent headers and all of his email to the FBI and my local police department. I also (as a courtesy) let him know I own a snub nose .38 special police edition and my daddy raised me to shoot straight, empty the rounds, and use hollow point bullets so there's no clean wound.

    Never heard from him but I don't mess around with threats - I have 3 kids. And yes, if anyone comes to my door uninvited, I'm ready.

    Had to laugh at the post here about making sure they take the last step in. My dad raised me to shoot, then drag them inside and finish the job there. (Kidding of course - sort of - I don't think a Texas jury would fault me for shooting an intruder who wasn't all the way in).

    I would report it to everyone official and be protected just in case. Too many nut jobs in this world to shrug ANY of them off. And look at Selena Gomez - her stalker tells the judge to put a restraining order in place himself and the judge still doesn't do it. Can't count on common sense anymore.
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    • Profile picture of the author caseycase
      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      I got my first death threat this year. Some idiot got spam on his blog and whoever posted it put Tiffany Dow as the name. So he decided to let me know he was coming for me.

      After explaining that he was a moron, and why, I informed him that I had sent headers and all of his email to the FBI and my local police department. I also (as a courtesy) let him know I own a snub nose .38 special police edition and my daddy raised me to shoot straight, empty the rounds, and use hollow point bullets so there's no clean wound.

      Never heard from him but I don't mess around with threats - I have 3 kids. And yes, if anyone comes to my door uninvited, I'm ready.

      Had to laugh at the post here about making sure they take the last step in. My dad raised me to shoot, then drag them inside and finish the job there. (Kidding of course - sort of - I don't think a Texas jury would fault me for shooting an intruder who wasn't all the way in).

      I would report it to everyone official and be protected just in case. Too many nut jobs in this world to shrug ANY of them off. And look at Selena Gomez - her stalker tells the judge to put a restraining order in place himself and the judge still doesn't do it. Can't count on common sense anymore.
      Wow Tiffany, love your response to them! And, you are right, common sense no longer abounds, and the police cannot be there to protect you, they can usually only show up after something bad happens. Hence the reason why I have guns in my house.
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    • Profile picture of the author HypeText
      Originally Posted by TiffanyDow View Post

      I got my first death threat this year. Some idiot got spam on his blog and whoever posted it put Tiffany Dow as the name. So he decided to let me know he was coming for me.

      After explaining that he was a moron, and why, I informed him that I had sent headers and all of his email to the FBI and my local police department. I also (as a courtesy) let him know I own a snub nose .38 special police edition and my daddy raised me to shoot straight, empty the rounds, and use hollow point bullets so there's no clean wound.

      Never heard from him but I don't mess around with threats - I have 3 kids. And yes, if anyone comes to my door uninvited, I'm ready.

      Had to laugh at the post here about making sure they take the last step in. My dad raised me to shoot, then drag them inside and finish the job there. (Kidding of course - sort of - I don't think a Texas jury would fault me for shooting an intruder who wasn't all the way in).

      I would report it to everyone official and be protected just in case. Too many nut jobs in this world to shrug ANY of them off. And look at Selena Gomez - her stalker tells the judge to put a restraining order in place himself and the judge still doesn't do it. Can't count on common sense anymore.
      No need for Hollow Points if you aim for the Head!
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  • Profile picture of the author OO
    Wow, what is up with these customers thinking they have the right to do and say whatever they want? I think they have been brainwashd by PayPal.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul_1
    Most people who make threats are trying to vent off... But since it is illegal to make threats anywhere, then he should be informed that you are involving the police so he'd back off...
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  • Profile picture of the author Majin
    Ahaha death threat, seriously, i admit i might be scared a bit at he begginning if i would live in USA, so easy to get a gun.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    ^^ LOL lets see, AK 47, M16/M4A1, P90, Mini Uzi, 50 Cal Barret, some kind of Walther pistol, Desert Eagle, RPG, Squirt Gun & a Car.

    Did I win?

    Oh and I ordered them from left to right, then started next line & left to right.

    So yea, I deserve a prize I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author ephame
    No death threats but even simple things like your "site sucks" etc can still bother me as I want to be as perfect as I can. I know I can't please them all and some people will over expect or be in the mindset to be dis-appointed but it always still agitates me if they are upset. Do people think you want them to be upset?... Really that's what i'm out to do... Come on people

    Death threat counter still at 0 but i'm sure it could happen eventually, but i would never take it personally. Like your customer seemed to state, he put all his eggs in one basket and didn't succeed it could have been anyone Else's product it just so happened it was yours.

    You've acknowledged his complaint you'd like to hope he could at least respect that
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    ^ not photoshopped, its actually real. but yes, it was meant to "disturb" the interwebz hahaha
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  • Profile picture of the author anthony2
    Originally Posted by Magim View Post

    So here's a first for me.

    I received an email today from some guy telling me how he "bet everything he had on my s---ty product" and how it "ruined his life" and how he's going to basically come over to my house and kill me. (btw he doesn't have my address)

    I sent the guy a much more reasonable response than he deserved, and am currently waiting on his.

    Anyways, while I fully recognize that this guy is an a-hole and it's a completely idle threat, this is bumming me out a lot more than it should. I've been doing IM for awhile (largely within email marketing) and I've never had that extreme level of vitriol directed toward me. I'd consider myself one of the good guys-- I don't put out crap products, nor do I promote crap products. If he had that bad of an experience with a product of mine that it "ruined his life", he's most certainly in the extreme minority...

    Ugh.

    Anyone else had to deal with people sending you threats and anger of this magnitude? How do you handle these bad apples?

    You mentioned he doesn't have your address.
    So do you use a P.O Box?

    You mentioned doing alot of email marketing and
    services like aweber will place your address at the bottom
    of every email.

    So thats why i was asking were you using a P.O Box.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashley Redcliff
    In that situation, I politely apologise to hear about their inconvenience, but I'm not afraid to make it clear that the product actually requires effort when using it, i.e. it's not a magic bullet, and people are responsible for what they do with what they learn. Give them that reminder.

    While many say "the customer is always right", I think you should be straight with someone who is threatening you. I wouldn't be afraid to tell him that he needs to withhold from using threats unless he wants to be reported to the police. The guy is not gonna hurt your rep, not when he's talking to you so irresponsibly. Nothing should be dealt with in such a manner.
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    • Profile picture of the author bretski
      Originally Posted by Ashley Redcliff View Post

      In that situation, I politely apologise to hear about their inconvenience, but I'm not afraid to make it clear that the product actually requires effort when using it, i.e. it's not a magic bullet, and people are responsible for what they do with what they learn. Give them that reminder.
      Oh... yeah... ummmmm.... I don't think I'd use the word "bullet"
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  • Profile picture of the author Helene E
    You have to have a physical address posted by law in the U.S. these days. So get one from a virtual office place that you can either go to or they can forward your mail to. Regus.com has them throughout the world and the UPS store has a physical address as well (and a conference room you can rent by the hour), but I don't think they forward mail.

    As for the threat, you need to contact both local authorities and your state's attorney general's office. At the very least, they need to know where to start looking if something happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author CyberSEO
    Just wonder... What kind of products you guys sell, if you are getting death threats? If you sell a solid product, it will never "ruin someone's life". At least why don't you just issue a refund?

    Sorry but I really can't get it...

    P.S. During all that years I'm in the IM, I was never receiving any threats. Furthermore, there was just one or two times when the customer asked for a refund and he was refunded.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by CyberSEO View Post

      Just wonder... What kind of products you guys sell, if you are getting death threats? If you sell a solid product, it will never "ruin someone's life". At least why don't you just issue a refund?

      Sorry but I really can't get it...

      P.S. During all that years I'm in the IM, I was never receiving any threats. Furthermore, there was just one or two times when the customer asked for a refund and he was refunded.

      I received my death threat, because the guy double-opted-in to my mailings, then got mad because I sent him email.

      He called me a "spammer" and told me that he knew where I lived and would personally put me six-feet under.

      So no... You don't have to literally harm people in order to receive death threats from people.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        You would not believe how many killed by home intruders are killed because they don't want to shoot another human and hesitate just long enough to have their weapon taken and are killed by their own weapon because they wanted to defend themselves but are just too "nice" to be able to understand the complete danger of another person.

        At the crisis center I would show a woman - "If he grabs you like this, you do this....." and they would often say "I couldn't do that, I might kill him". The only answer is "Yeah you might, but when it comes to a point you have to use a move like this - the creature attacking you is NOT worried about your health and well-being.
        This is the reason I made the comment about using the gun enough to be familiar with it, and to practice under pressure.

        Back when I taught gun safety (although the program was expanded and renamed 'Hunter Education'), there was always someone who wanted to be macho and talk about the loaded gun under the bed. Good way to get someone killed by accident, especially curious kids.

        Then we ran an exercise. We mentally had people go through the motions of loading their gun and getting it ready to fire. For most handguns, it was 3-4 seconds. We told people that if they couldn't do that after coming awake from a sound sleep, they should keep the guns locked away.

        We also taught people that pointing a gun at an intruder 'to scare him off' was a really bad move. There were three possible outcomes, and two of them were potentially fatal to the homeowner. One, the guy runs off. Two, he uses his own weapon to shoot you. Or three, he takes your gun away from you and uses it on you.

        Which brought us back to our over-riding theme - never point your gun at anything unless you are ready and willing to pull the trigger.

        [quote=Lori Kelly;5310007]
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        My first marriage was to a psychopath and there is not a doubt in my mind he would have killed me if I stayed. He beat the **** out of me, threatened my life and hunted me down when I left him. When he found me, he kicked in my apartment door and I was holding a shot gun and there is not a doubt in my mind that if he did not leave, I would have pulled that trigger.

        I lived in some pretty shady places when I was young and I learned self defense and trained to utilize both the skills and developed the mental aspect of the effectiveness of the art. If me or any of my family members are ever in a situation that our lives our threatened, I will protect me and my family at all costs.
        According to the state trooper that visited our classes, the number one weapon they recommended was a 12 gauge pump shotgun. No autoloader to jam. No real need to aim, just point. And the sound that slide makes when you jack a shell into the chamber is enough to make many intruders' blood run cold and some to soil themselves...

        Again, you have to be willing to pull the trigger, though. If you aren't, don't get a gun. Get a loud dog...
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Full auto is outlawed in most states except if you have a permit, I believe.
    Na, that law was passed in 1986.

    Its still perfectly legal to own/sell/buy/trade a full-auto AS LONG AS it was manufactured before the bill was signed into law.


    No permit needed as long as it was made before then.
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    • Profile picture of the author King Zultar
      Originally Posted by Whos That Guru View Post

      Na, that law was passed in 1986.

      Its still perfectly legal to own/sell/buy/trade a full-auto AS LONG AS it was manufactured before the bill was signed into law.


      No permit needed as long as it was made before then.
      You do need to pay $200 to the US government to get a tax stamp that allows you to purchase the weapon (or lower receiver), so you in reality you do need a permit for it anywhere in the US. Also the weapon does need to have been registered with the BATF prior to the Hughes Amendment coming into effect in 1986, so a selective fire Thompson made in 1920 and discovered in someone's effects, or brought into the country subsequently wouldn't qualify. There are some obscure exemptions for law enforcement samples etc. There is no such restriction on short barrelled rifles and 'Any Other Weapons' which can still be registered new.

      I'm in the UK BTW, own and love guns and have no desire to take away anyone else's gun freedoms. You do have to realise, however, that having had gun registration for rifled cartridge arms since 1920 and an effective ban on ownership for defensive purposes since 1945 (except in Ulster) people here tend to have an attitude shaped by that fact - that's just the way most of us are.

      KZ.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    No news from OP... Hope he's all right. What a freaking situation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Yadira Barbosa
    I think this guy already ruin his own life a long time ago and want to blame something, the problem is he chose you, but dont worry about this guy, he is nuts.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Tim - do you realize how many illegal immigrants we have in this country and how easy it is to traffic firearms over our south border? If you took away our weapons, only criminals would be armed - and they ARE armed, and illegally so. We have a place in the US that had gun laws - and more innocent people were killed there than anywhere else in this country other than the regions of the south where the illegals are coming across the border.

    We take our right to own guns very seriously - especially with the political climate that is going on right now. Perhaps you do not mind that your government can send troops into your cities and towns and completely destroy you while you have no way to stop them. We do mind that over here. We also know that other countries are very less likely to invade a country on their own soil if they have to fear every resident in the country and not just the military.

    As far as US citizens go, we know other countries don't have guns. We don't care how you live. We also don't care how others want us to live. Those that don't like our gun laws are very free to live elsewhere -- they are not so free to take the right from those who cherish it.

    It's really that simple. In this country we carry guns. Those who choose to break into our homes and threaten our safety and homes know that and take their own risks if they choose to ignore it. As far as lunatics with guns - it's a risk we are willing to take to be able to defend our lives and our way of life.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    I haven't read all the posts in here but I understand how you feel.

    I have had someone who claimed to have ties with the mob and they're putting out a hit on me. He was an owner of a limo company. I had another say he was going to come kick my ass because I sent him an invoice for the remaining amount of money he owed me on a project. I had another person actually COME HERE from North Carolina because I wouldn't give him a refund for a website he ordered 18 months prior.

    There are crazy people out there. I have an ex that threatened to kill my dog. More mental institutions should become available for these people. Some people are just crazy and emotional messes. Nothing you can do about it except control how YOU react.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sharyn Sheldon
    This is seriously frightening and I'm really impressed with all the support and toughness of everyone here. I'm one of those non-violent types who would be freaked out and sleepless if something like that happened to me. I always like to see the good in people, so it's a shock when that kind of vitriol shows up. People seem to think they can write whatever they like just because they're online and relatively anonymous.

    Did you end up reporting it to the police and telling him you did? I hope so.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrislangley
    You could just offer him a refund, but ignore the threat
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