Article Marketing: Conflicting Advice

62 replies
I need a little help here. I'm new to the whole Internet Marketing business though my niche is in Self-development, I just have a little problem.

I've heard from some people that if you submit an article that you have already written to an article directory it will be classed as duplicate content.

I have also heard the contrary, that it is ok to submit your articles to more than one directory and that as long as all the backlinks are pointing to your site then you won't get slapped for duplicate content.

Which is correct? :confused:

Thank you.
#advice #article #conflicting #marketing
  • Profile picture of the author bluetechseo
    If you are submitting an article to many different directories then it would be best to just spin that one article into 10 or just re-write it.
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  • Profile picture of the author timsoulo
    If you have a "nice website" (not MFA or SPLOG or smth)... why would you want links from article directories anyway?

    go and submit a couple guestposts to relevant blogs.. you'll see mUUUUch better results!
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    • Profile picture of the author PatriciaJ
      Submitting an article that you have already posted on your site to an article directory is called syndication not duplicate content.

      It is totally fine to submit your articles to as many as you wish to, but always better to get them indexed on your site first.

      It isn't best to spin articles, you don't need to and far too many get badly spinned until they are difficult to read or you can't understand them.

      @timsoulo Article directories are intended for the purpose of syndication not just backlinks. Guest blogging is great and a way of getting your content and links on authority sites in your niche just as submitting to such as EZA may lead to get your articles syndicated on authority sites.
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    • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
      Well, I can only speak from my own experience. I use article directories for the purpose they were originally intended - as repositories for articles, where they are subsequently found and published by webmasters in their niche relevant newsletters, and often, on their high traffic websites. This is how I now make my living, and have done for more than ten years.

      I originally began using the internet when I expanded my membership organization onto the web, after years of circulating material by snail mail. (I have, in the interim, expanded successfully into several additional niches.)

      Does that qualify me as having sufficient experience to reply to your thread?

      Anyway, to answer your question: No, you do not need to spin your articles. Over the years, I have written thousands of articles; all have been first published on my own websites/blogs, then on Ezine Articles, then (sometimes) on ArticleBase and sometimes one or two other directories. This is true "content syndication"..

      Over more recent years, this has only changed in that I now submit articles to my growing list of niche relevant webmasters after publishing on my on websites and before Ezine Articles. This means I am virtually removed from any dependance upon Google to provide me with focused traffic.

      In the real world, there really is no such thing as a Google duplicate content penalty. I have written a substantial article explaining this on my own blog, but I don't think it's appropriate to include a link and "blow my own trumpet" here.

      In the past there must have been dozens of similar threads asking exactly the same question, and no doubt they will continue long into the future. I have provided you with my own experience, acquired over many years of hands-on marketing. Decide as you will...
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  • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
    Originally Posted by SuperDJ View Post

    I need a little help here. I'm new to the whole Internet Marketing business though my niche is in Self-development, I just have a little problem.

    I've heard from some people that if you submit an article that you have already written to an article directory it will be classed as duplicate content.

    I have also heard the contrary, that it is ok to submit your articles to more than one directory and that as long as all the backlinks are pointing to your site then you won't get slapped for duplicate content.

    Which is correct? :confused:

    Thank you.
    You're not going to get slapped for duplicate content, but do yourself a huge favor.

    Do a search on the Warrior Forum for Alexa Smith and start reading what she says about Article Marketing. It will make the difference between you wasting months of time and coming back later to tell all of us "article marketing" doesn't work.

    If you are really ambitious, do the same thing with TPW (Bill Platt).

    Please don't thank me, just remember to hit the thanks button on their posts as the light bulbs start going on....
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Originally Posted by SuperDJ View Post

    I've heard from some people that if you submit an article that you have already written to an article directory it will be classed as duplicate content.
    Those people need to buy a clue, at least on this topic. "Duplicate content", according to Google, is identical content found on the same site. There is no such thing as a "duplicate content penalty", as there are so many innocent ways that a site could have duplicate content.

    For example, Google recognizes the following as different pages, even though they both point to the same place:

    example.com

    example.com/index.html


    If you run a blog platform, you can add urls in categories, date-based archives, tags, etc.

    All Google says is that if you don't use the tools they provide (nofollow, noindex, canonical urls, etc.), they will choose which url to use, and it may not be the one you want.

    Originally Posted by SuperDJ View Post

    I have also heard the contrary, that it is ok to submit your articles to more than one directory and that as long as all the backlinks are pointing to your site then you won't get slapped for duplicate content.

    Which is correct? :confused:

    Thank you.
    This is closer to correct, but not quite. Many directories, including EZA, require that all instances of the article have the same author name. This is to help ensure that the article does, indeed, belong to the submitter. Has nothing to do with the mythical "duplicate content."
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  • Profile picture of the author affilorama-portal
    Search engines will not rank a page with duplicate content. They want to display unique, relevant articles. If the articles you submit to article directories are the same, you would only have one chance to rank for those articles so it would be better to submit different/rewritten content to article directories so each would have a chance to rank well in search engines.
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    • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
      Originally Posted by affilorama-portal View Post

      Search engines will not rank a page with duplicate content. They want to display unique, relevant articles. If the articles you submit to article directories are the same, you would only have one chance to rank for those articles so it would be better to submit different/rewritten content to article directories so each would have a chance to rank well in search engines.
      Oh dear, more completely inaccurate information yet again. Please people, stop perpetuating complete myths. Only you can create "duplicate content" by publishing content more than once on one website/blog.

      Articles published on your own website and in article directories, as guest blogs, etc. are not duplicate content, they are syndicated content...:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Eddie Titan
        Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

        Oh dear, more completely inaccurate information yet again. Please people, stop perpetuating complete myths. Only you can create "duplicate content" by publishing content more than once on one website/blog.

        Articles published on your own website and in article directories, as guest blogs, etc. are not duplicate content, they are syndicated content...:rolleyes:
        Annie,

        I would ask Alexa, but since she has, consistently, in the past, linked to your article as a credible source regarding what many claim to be the duplicate content myth, I would appreciate a response from you regarding the following:

        It seems like many people here keep trying to get a couple messages across. The messages being, syndicated content is not duplicate content and syndicated content will not be penalized by Google because it is not considered duplicate content, but rather, it is considered to be syndicated content. To me, even this, is not entirely true. You are right on one count: Syndicated content will not be penalized by Google for being duplicate content.

        However, you are not right to claim, syndicated content is not duplicate content.

        Correct me if I am wrong, but duplicate content

        refers to substantive blocks of content within or across domains that either completely match other content or are appreciably similar.
        This was taken from Google's General Guidelines found here. This page was last updated by Google on 11/17/2011

        Furthermore, if you want a dictionary definition of the words, you will find it is pretty much identical to what Google is trying to explain in their guidelines.

        It is not correct to claim that syndicated content is not duplicate content.

        When you publish a duplicate of your content (that is presumably published on your website first) and then "syndicate" it to other web properties, you are essentially sending out multiple copies of your content, are you not?

        After you syndicate your content, the content syndicated can be classified as "syndicated content". But, that does not mean it is no longer considered duplicate content. Did the content magically change? Is it not a duplicate or a near duplicate of your original work?

        It is duplicate content, however, if you want Google to also classify it as "syndicated content", you must take the proper measures, which are explained on the same Google page referenced above.

        Syndicate carefully: If you syndicate your content on other sites, Google will always show the version we think is most appropriate for users in each given search, which may or may not be the version you'd prefer. However, it is helpful to ensure that each site on which your content is syndicated includes a link back to your original article. You can also ask those who use your syndicated material to use the noindex meta tag to prevent search engines from indexing their version of the content.
        I know you, Alexa, and myob, and others have been in the content syndication arena for a while. So, I am not doubting your experience in the field. I am just doubting your explanation of duplicate content to syndicated content. Which is surprising because I have read many of your posts on other topics and your logic is on point and your abilities to express yourself in writing surpasses mine.

        My question is, why do you think syndicated content is not duplicate content?

        And, what do you mean by "penalized" when you say, syndicated content will not be penalized by Google?

        What is the penalty? To me, the penalty is Google will notice your syndicated content as a duplicate of your original content and filter it accordingly. This will allow your original content, published on your website, to out rank the syndicated content. So essentially, it is a "good" penalty.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
    Banned
    DAYS SINCE THE "DUPLICATE CONTENT ISSUE" HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP: 3

    ....
    ...
    ..
    .

    DAYS SINCE THE "DUPLICATE CONTENT ISSUE" HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP: 0

    Still, I think 3 might be the record.
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  • Profile picture of the author rooze
    Before worrying about the mechanics of it all, ask yourself "why would I want to submit something/anything to an article directory, what's in it for me?".
    If you answer that question and decide that you still want to do it, then research the correct way. Otherwise, forgedda bout it.
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  • Profile picture of the author nm5419
    You can take your advice from people who validate their results with nothing more than "their personal experience," or, you discover for yourself what happens with content spam from authoritative sources.

    Google shoves "syndicated" and duplicate content into an archive of unseen supplemental results in an effort to provide a valuable web experience (you can read more about that here: Supplemental Result - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

    According to Google, "duplicate content generally refers to substantive blocks of content within or across domains that either completely match other content or are appreciably similar." And it requires publishers who use copied content on their sites to adorn it with a noindex tag so that Google can keep it out of its index. (Authoritative source: Duplicate content - Webmaster Tools Help)
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    • Profile picture of the author MattCatania
      Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

      You can take your advice from people who validate their results with nothing more than "their personal experience," or, you discover for yourself what happens with content spam from authoritative sources.

      Google shoves "syndicated" and duplicate content into an archive of unseen supplemental results in an effort to provide a valuable web experience (you can read more about that here: Supplemental Result - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

      According to Google, "duplicate content generally refers to substantive blocks of content within or across domains that either completely match other content or are appreciably similar." And it requires publishers who use copied content on their sites to adorn it with a noindex tag so that Google can keep it out of its index. (Authoritative source: Duplicate content - Webmaster Tools Help)

      What about those who syndicate articles to ezine authors? Google doesn't even come into the picture here - so worrying about 'duplicate content' as you view it, is a moot point.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MattCatania View Post

        What about those who syndicate articles to ezine authors? Google doesn't even come into the picture here - so worrying about 'duplicate content' as you view it, is a moot point.


        "Now properly fed, the troll embarks to wreak havoc on the thread."
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by MattCatania View Post

        What about those who syndicate articles to ezine authors? Google doesn't even come into the picture here - so worrying about 'duplicate content' as you view it, is a moot point.
        Absolutely true, Matt ... but best to take no notice, because Dave's only trolling here, really, as you can see clearly enough from his sig-file.

        He knows perfectly well, after all the discussions and posts like this one that Google actually takes the time and trouble to explain at length that they like syndicated content, fully understand the need for it, and don't treat it as "duplicate content" at all - which, of course, it isn't.

        Article Marketers - Lay the Duplicate Content Myth To Rest Once and For All | Internet Marketing and Publishing
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        • Profile picture of the author nm5419
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Google actually takes the time and trouble to explain at length that they like syndicated content
          Repeating what someone said they heard at a seminar isn't a direct quote. And constantly referring to an unverified rumor as if it were a fact and as if it didn't contradict what is in writing (even when you didn't even attend the seminar yourself) is absurd. You should know that as a writer. But maybe you're not a writer. Are you a writer? Have you ever written any factually based material?
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      • Profile picture of the author nm5419
        Originally Posted by MattCatania View Post

        What about those who syndicate articles to ezine authors? Google doesn't even come into the picture here - so worrying about 'duplicate content' as you view it, is a moot point.
        Syndicating duplicate content to ezine publishers creates the same problem that syndicating duplicate content to webmasters creates. And that is a lack of a valuable experience, which is, consequently, what Google is trying to eradicate.

        Google's requirements, in fact, are a response to massive user backlash against what millions of users don't want to see. Unfortunately, that critical point seems to fly over everyone's head: Nobody wants to see the crap... not on the web... and not in an ezine, that thing that's being abused as a Google-free, underground spam gutter (thanks to certain people).
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

          Syndicating duplicate content to ezine publishers creates the same problem that syndicating duplicate content to webmasters creates. And that is a lack of a valuable experience, which is, consequently, what Google is trying to eradicate.

          Google's requirements, in fact, are a response to massive user backlash against what millions of users don't want to see. Unfortunately, that critical point seems to fly over everyone's head: Nobody wants to see the crap... not on the web... and not in an ezine, that thing that's being abused as a Google-free, underground spam gutter (thanks to certain people).
          To quote the mantra of a certain troll...

          Prove it.

          Show credible proof that including a syndicated article in an ezine guarantees the lack of a valuable experience.

          Show credible proof of this 'massive user backlash' and what 'millions of users' want to see.

          Seems like you're getting a bit shrill, ol' buddy. Is there a tantrum in the works?
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          • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
            Banned
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            To quote the mantra of a certain troll...

            Prove it.

            Show credible proof that including a syndicated article in an ezine guarantees the lack of a valuable experience.

            Show credible proof of this 'massive user backlash' and what 'millions of users' want to see.

            Seems like you're getting a bit shrill, ol' buddy. Is there a tantrum in the works?
            All we're gonna get is this:

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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
              John,
              Seems like you're getting a bit shrill, ol' buddy.
              Yeah. While most of this person's posts would be fine in isolation, there seems to be an agenda here, and it's a bit too focused on a single point of attack.

              The personal comments are going to stop, one way or another. I'd prefer it if people made an effort to moderate their own tones.


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              • Profile picture of the author nm5419
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                John,Yeah. While most of this person's posts would be fine in isolation, there seems to be an agenda here, and it's a bit too focused on a single point of attack.

                The personal comments are going to stop, one way or another. I'd prefer it if people made an effort to moderate their own tones.


                Paul
                "This person's" only agenda here is to get people to stop spamming the web, ezines, or whatever channel they're funneling their reruns through, and finally do something original. As an internet user, I would like my web experience improved in that manner.
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            ... Is there a tantrum in the works?
            He just needs a hug.
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            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
              Banned
              Originally Posted by myob View Post

              He just needs a hug.


              My last image for the day, I promise. Don't want a vacation :p.
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              • Profile picture of the author celente
                Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post



                My last image for the day, I promise. Don't want a vacation :p.
                Looks like somewhere you should not go looking for hugs at 3am in the morning. LOL
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                • Profile picture of the author ElisabethHalligan
                  Sorry to take this a little OT, but since someone mentioned hitting the "thanks" button... WHERE is the "thanks" button??? I keep seeing that people thanked someone... I've read dozens of posts I would LOVE to thank people for... but apparently I'm too brain-dead to figure out how to do it...

                  sigh

                  (that being said, my husband about sent diet coke out his nose over that free hugs picture)
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                  • Profile picture of the author bluedolphinc
                    Originally Posted by ElisabethHalligan View Post

                    Sorry to take this a little OT, but since someone mentioned hitting the "thanks" button... WHERE is the "thanks" button??? I keep seeing that people thanked someone... I've read dozens of posts I would LOVE to thank people for... but apparently I'm too brain-dead to figure out how to do it...

                    sigh

                    (that being said, my husband about sent diet coke out his nose over that free hugs picture)
                    Hi Elisabeth,

                    Look at the bottom of each post, to the right. There are 4 buttons there, the last one is the "thanks" button. Just click on it once after the post you want to thank : - )
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                    • Profile picture of the author bluedolphinc
                      Originally Posted by AnniePot View Post

                      Well, I can only speak from my own experience. I use article directories for the purpose they were originally intended - as repositories for articles, where they are subsequently found and published by webmasters in their niche relevant newsletters, and often, on their high traffic websites. This is how I now make my living, and have done for more than ten years.

                      I originally began using the internet when I expanded my membership organization onto the web, after years of circulating material by snail mail. (I have, in the interim, expanded successfully into several additional niches.)

                      Does that qualify me as having sufficient experience to reply to your thread?

                      Anyway, to answer your question: No, you do not need to spin your articles. Over the years, I have written thousands of articles; all have been first published on my own websites/blogs, then on Ezine Articles, then (sometimes) on ArticleBase and sometimes one or two other directories. This is true "content syndication"..

                      Over more recent years, this has only changed in that I now submit articles to my growing list of niche relevant webmasters after publishing on my on websites and before Ezine Articles. This means I am virtually removed from any dependance upon Google to provide me with focused traffic.

                      In the real world, there really is no such thing as a Google duplicate content penalty. I have written a substantial article explaining this on my own blog, but I don't think it's appropriate to include a link and "blow my own trumpet" here.

                      In the past there must have been dozens of similar threads asking exactly the same question, and no doubt they will continue long into the future. I have provided you with my own experience, acquired over many years of hands-on marketing. Decide as you will...
                      Originally Posted by PatriciaJ View Post

                      Submitting an article that you have already posted on your site to an article directory is called syndication not duplicate content.

                      It is totally fine to submit your articles to as many as you wish to, but always better to get them indexed on your site first.

                      It isn't best to spin articles, you don't need to and far too many get badly spinned until they are difficult to read or you can't understand them.

                      @timsoulo Article directories are intended for the purpose of syndication not just backlinks. Guest blogging is great and a way of getting your content and links on authority sites in your niche just as submitting to such as EZA may lead to get your articles syndicated on authority sites.
                      I agree with you both. From personal experience and from reading top honest sellers online. Great posts thanks.

                      And for the other...when my child was small and trying to get attention and then trying to throw a temper tantrum if no attention was given, I learned a valuable lesson...don't respond to the temper tantrum. When they are done, quietly let them know it will not be allowed again. I never had another problem. And for adults...or who should be adults...same thing. Ignore them and they will go away. And then we can all get back to a great topic
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                    • Profile picture of the author ElisabethHalligan
                      Originally Posted by bluedolphinc View Post

                      Hi Elisabeth,

                      Look at the bottom of each post, to the right. There are 4 buttons there, the last one is the "thanks" button. Just click on it once after the post you want to thank : - )
                      I've only got three buttons... Quote, MultiQuote, and Quick Reply... no "thanks"... I wonder if I need a higher post count before I get to say thank you to anyone....
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                      • Profile picture of the author bluedolphinc
                        Originally Posted by ElisabethHalligan View Post

                        I've only got three buttons... Quote, MultiQuote, and Quick Reply... no "thanks"... I wonder if I need a higher post count before I get to say thank you to anyone....
                        OOPS...I forgot. Just post some more and the thanks button will come on. Sorry : - )
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                • Profile picture of the author stong
                  Can I hijack this thread for a bit here to ask about a related question?

                  I personally believe that there's no harm in syndication (i.e. distributing the same articles to different websites/blogs/ezines. But what happens if the site owner believes otherwise, and requests only original articles to be submitted?

                  Do you say 'nope, syndication or bust', or comply and do a rewrite?

                  The reason I ask this is because if there's one site owner that believes solely in original articles, there must be a lot more of them out there, some of whom may have the perfect amount of traffic that I want to reach out to.

                  If I refuse to provide exclusively original articles for them, I'll lose a source of traffic. But if I agree to their requests, what do I do when there's a whole bunch of them wanting their own original articles?

                  It's pretty much a Catch-22 situation.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by stong View Post

                    Can I hijack this thread for a bit here to ask about a related question?

                    I personally believe that there's no harm in syndication (i.e. distributing the same articles to different websites/blogs/ezines. But what happens if the site owner believes otherwise, and requests only original articles to be submitted?

                    Do you say 'nope, syndication or bust', or comply and do a rewrite?

                    The reason I ask this is because if there's one site owner that believes solely in original articles, there must be a lot more of them out there, some of whom may have the perfect amount of traffic that I want to reach out to.

                    If I refuse to provide exclusively original articles for them, I'll lose a source of traffic. But if I agree to their requests, what do I do when there's a whole bunch of them wanting their own original articles?

                    It's pretty much a Catch-22 situation.
                    That's really a case by case thing; and something that you need to decide if you are okay with. If writing a unique piece of content for that site will get you in front of the traffic you want and will get you the results you want, why not? If you won't get the results you want out of the effort? Forget about it. Your time is valuable.
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                  • Profile picture of the author nm5419
                    Originally Posted by stong View Post

                    The reason I ask this is because if there's one site owner that believes solely in original articles, there must be a lot more of them out there, some of whom may have the perfect amount of traffic that I want to reach out to.
                    Of course there are. These are the people you want to associate with because they know how to work the web.

                    Originally Posted by stong View Post

                    If I refuse to provide exclusively original articles for them, I'll lose a source of traffic. But if I agree to their requests, what do I do when there's a whole bunch of them wanting their own original articles?

                    It's pretty much a Catch-22 situation.
                    Write for the sites that have the largest amount of traffic first, and then the second, third, and so on.
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                  • Profile picture of the author myob
                    Originally Posted by stong View Post

                    Can I hijack this thread for a bit here to ask about a related question?

                    I personally believe that there's no harm in syndication (i.e. distributing the same articles to different websites/blogs/ezines. But what happens if the site owner believes otherwise, and requests only original articles to be submitted?

                    Do you say 'nope, syndication or bust', or comply and do a rewrite?

                    The reason I ask this is because if there's one site owner that believes solely in original articles, there must be a lot more of them out there, some of whom may have the perfect amount of traffic that I want to reach out to.

                    If I refuse to provide exclusively original articles for them, I'll lose a source of traffic. But if I agree to their requests, what do I do when there's a whole bunch of them wanting their own original articles?

                    It's pretty much a Catch-22 situation.

                    Personally, I would just pass on to the next prospective publisher rather than comply, because for me to provide an original (unpublished) article would be a most onerous request. It seldom is an issue anyway, but my marketing model is to develop syndicated outlets in a wide spectrum of niches. Writing specifically for targeted readers is resource-intensive, and efficiencies of scale are maximized in leveraging articles through syndication. With currently over 28,000 publishers in my network (and growing rapidly), writing unique articles is not cost-effective.
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                    • Profile picture of the author nm5419
                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                      With currently over 28,000 publishers in my network (and growing rapidly), writing unique articles is not cost-effective.
                      Most people just call it "work."
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                      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                        "This person's" only agenda here is to get people to stop spamming the web, ezines, or whatever channel they're funneling their reruns through, and finally do something original. As an internet user, I would like my web experience improved in that manner.
                        First, you're not going to convert the convinced. That's an exercise in futility.

                        Second, you're not going to accomplish anything at all with a consistent tone of hostility. Well, not anything that's on your wish list, at any rate.

                        Third, you're going to have to be much more logical in your arguments if you want to make any headway with the folks who haven't already made up their minds on the subject.

                        Anger and illogic are hardly the most convincing debate combination you might choose to apply to the effort.


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                        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

                          As a person that has built my own search engines since 1997, I'll answer this from my own perspective.

                          A single syndicated article is fine. However, having the same syndicated article appearing multiple times in the search results is not what I'd want in my own search engines.

                          And, arguing that a syndicated article "in an ezine" is taking the argument completly out of context. The issue is concerning Google's point of view, not ezines.

                          When you have written an article that links to other resources, how many times have you included links to the very same info (download, plugin, etc) more than once, even if it's hosted on different sites?

                          Who here that has ever built a list of external resources intentionally linked to multiple versions of the same information?
                          Kurt, my reference to articles published in ezines was a direct response to this:

                          Syndicating duplicate content to ezine publishers creates the same problem that syndicating duplicate content to webmasters creates. And that is a lack of a valuable experience, which is, consequently, what Google is trying to eradicate.
                          Beyond that, I was simply turning the tables on someone who constantly whines about proof, and makes his own points by repeating "I'm right because you haven't shown me proof I'm wrong."

                          I've never had that issue with you, nor do I now.

                          Beyond that, we seem to be looking at search as "one query, one result". Let's look at the omnipresent subject of 'dog training'. If I manage to syndicate an article on basic obedience training on a site devoted to raising and training service dogs, I believe Google may find the copy on that site more relevant than the one on my basic training site if the query and search history indicate a site about service dogs is more on point.

                          And I've never heard Google say that an article indexed multiple times would not return different versions for different searches. All I've ever heard is that they will only return on copy per search and index one copy per site. That's not the same as saying that there can only be one copy of a piece of content anywhere on the Internet.

                          Originally Posted by stong View Post

                          Can I hijack this thread for a bit here to ask about a related question?

                          I personally believe that there's no harm in syndication (i.e. distributing the same articles to different websites/blogs/ezines. But what happens if the site owner believes otherwise, and requests only original articles to be submitted?

                          Do you say 'nope, syndication or bust', or comply and do a rewrite?

                          The reason I ask this is because if there's one site owner that believes solely in original articles, there must be a lot more of them out there, some of whom may have the perfect amount of traffic that I want to reach out to.

                          If I refuse to provide exclusively original articles for them, I'll lose a source of traffic. But if I agree to their requests, what do I do when there's a whole bunch of them wanting their own original articles?

                          It's pretty much a Catch-22 situation.
                          If a site owner with the right blend of audience make-up and potential traffic wants original content, I make a decision whether or not to provide it. If a bunch of them want original articles, you evaluate each one and decide what you want to do.

                          The Catch-22 here is that submitting original content means you are no longer "syndicating" your content, by definition.
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                          • Profile picture of the author nm5419
                            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                            Beyond that, I was simply turning the tables on someone who constantly whines about proof, and makes his own points by repeating "I'm right because you haven't shown me proof I'm wrong."
                            Yet, another inference that was never said!

                            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                            The Catch-22 here is that submitting original content means you are no longer "syndicating" your content, by definition.
                            That's why it's not called syndication.
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                            • Profile picture of the author myob
                              Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                              That's why it's not called syndication.
                              Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                              Most people just call it "work."
                              I think he's finally got it!
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                            • Profile picture of the author Joseph Robinson
                              Banned
                              Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                              Yet, another inference that was never said!
                              Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                              Show me where I've been proven wrong.
                              Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                              Well seeing there's a simple way to demonstrate your position, prove it.
                              Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                              Well I'm from the Midwest, and that means I gotta see it to believe it.
                              Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                              It's so weird that you say that. I wish there were some numbers somewhere that 'quantified' your guarantee.
                              I feel like John Stewart! :p

                              Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                              Joe, I have to admit it. When you're right, you're right...:rolleyes:
                              I won't let it go to my head lol.
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                        • Profile picture of the author nm5419
                          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                          Anger and illogic are hardly the most convincing debate combination you might choose to apply to the effort.
                          I've never, ever had anyone claim my statements were illogical before -- especially when I link to the source of what I'm talking about, but I guess there's always a first time for everything.

                          I have, therefore, come to interpret that to mean "a difficulty in understanding." Which is difficult to understand itself when the links that I point to substantiate my position. Perhaps it's more "a difficulty in accepting," or, "a difficulty in admitting one's wrong." Maybe even, "a difficulty in letting go of one's ego."

                          Whatever the case may be, I've decided that this place is just inundated with dishonest individuals who prey on the uninformed. That disgusts me (hence my anger). So I bid all the con artists adieu and hope that one day, these IM noobs will see through all the baseless claims they make.

                          Numbers matter people! Try getting a business loan with a "Hey, it works for me" proposal and see how far that gets you! Good luck and I'll see you on the respectable side online business!
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                          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                            Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

                            I've never, ever had anyone claim my statements were illogical before -- especially when I link to the source of what I'm talking about, but I guess there's always a first time for everything.

                            I have, therefore, come to interpret that to mean "a difficulty in understanding." Which is difficult to understand itself when the links that I point to substantiate my position. Perhaps it's more "a difficulty in accepting," or, "a difficulty in admitting one's wrong." Maybe even, "a difficulty in letting go of one's ego."

                            Whatever the case may be, I've decided that this place is just inundated with dishonest individuals who prey on the uninformed. That disgusts me (hence my anger). So I bid all the con artists adieu and hope that one day, these IM noobs will see through all the baseless claims they make.

                            Numbers matter people! Try getting a business loan with a "Hey, it works for me" proposal and see how far that gets you! Good luck and I'll see you on the respectable side online business!
                            Originally Posted by Joe Robinson View Post

                            All we're gonna get is this:

                            Joe, I have to admit it. When you're right, you're right...:rolleyes:
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                          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                            I've never, ever had anyone claim my statements were illogical before
                            Perhaps you've got them focused on the hostility and they're not looking that closely at the arguments?

                            Could happen.
                            Perhaps it's more "a difficulty in accepting," or, "a difficulty in admitting one's wrong." Maybe even, "a difficulty in letting go of one's ego."
                            Or, perhaps, it might just be "sees illogic in the comments as stated, and makes that known."

                            Could be.
                            Whatever the case may be, I've decided that this place is just inundated with dishonest individuals who prey on the uninformed.
                            An interesting - and demonstrably illogical - comment within this context.

                            Of the people you have regularly attacked in discussions about content syndication, I am not aware of any who sell products or offer services to others that are supported by their comments here on the subject. How is their behavior predatory?

                            I have personally seen you categorize someone else's differing opinion as a lie, without any evidence to support the suggestion that they believe something other than what they have stated. That is both illogical and insulting.

                            Your comment above falls into that example. They have opinions other than yours, therefore they are dishonest?

                            Those are, by the way, fairly typical examples of the tone you regularly display in these discussions. If you don't consider unfounded attacks on the character of others to be hostile, perhaps the problem is in your definitions.


                            Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author Kurt
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            To quote the mantra of a certain troll...

            Prove it.

            Show credible proof that including a syndicated article in an ezine guarantees the lack of a valuable experience.

            Show credible proof of this 'massive user backlash' and what 'millions of users' want to see.

            Seems like you're getting a bit shrill, ol' buddy. Is there a tantrum in the works?
            As a person that has built my own search engines since 1997, I'll answer this from my own perspective.

            A single syndicated article is fine. However, having the same syndicated article appearing multiple times in the search results is not what I'd want in my own search engines.

            And, arguing that a syndicated article "in an ezine" is taking the argument completly out of context. The issue is concerning Google's point of view, not ezines.

            When you have written an article that links to other resources, how many times have you included links to the very same info (download, plugin, etc) more than once, even if it's hosted on different sites?

            Who here that has ever built a list of external resources intentionally linked to multiple versions of the same information?
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          • Profile picture of the author nm5419
            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            To quote the mantra of a certain troll...
            Name calling. How professional.

            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            Show credible proof that including a syndicated article in an ezine guarantees the lack of a valuable experience.
            "guarantees the lack of a valuable experience"

            An incredible inference from something that was never said.

            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            Show credible proof of this 'massive user backlash' and what 'millions of users' want to see.
            Do search engines not load in your brower??

            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            Seems like you're getting a bit shrill, ol' buddy. Is there a tantrum in the works?
            Ugh. No. Just your average stomach turning.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
          Originally Posted by nm5419 View Post

          Syndicating duplicate content to ezine publishers creates the same problem that syndicating duplicate content to webmasters creates. And that is a lack of a valuable experience, which is, consequently, what Google is trying to eradicate.
          Surely, those who subscribe to one ezine will be unaware of the content in other ezines, unless of course, they have subscribed to all of them.

          To put it another way, if an article is syndicated across 20 different ezines, for example, then the readers of each ezine are most likely to be unaware of what is being published in the other ezines. They most likely won't even know of the existence of the other ezines!

          This means that each reader will find the article (that they come across only once) to be a valuable experience, assuming of course that the said article is well written.

          You seem to be assuming that everyone is aware of every instance of an article being syndicated, which, while technically possible I suppose, is in reality never going to be the case.

          John.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    I really love the ignore user feature in this forum

    -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author ElisabethHalligan
    And... bah da dum... NOW it shows up. I must have needed 5 posts. THANK YOU!
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  • Profile picture of the author Eddie Titan
    Oh, and one last question

    Do you syndicate to build links to your websites or to drive traffic to your content, or both?

    I figure it is the latter. I wonder how effective backlinks from syndicated content are in comparison to backlinks from unique content published on other websites.

    I have always encountered better results, in terms of search engine optimization, by building backlinks using unique content.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Eddie,

      I think most people who syndicate quality content, as opposed to keyword spew spammers, are primarily interested in the direct traffic. Any SEO benefits that might accrue are secondary, or fit longer-term objectives.

      That doesn't mean they're unimportant, as those links tend to be from higher quality sites.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Eddie,

        I think most people who syndicate quality content, as opposed to keyword spew spammers, are primarily interested in the direct traffic. Any SEO benefits that might accrue are secondary, or fit longer-term objectives.

        That doesn't mean they're unimportant, as those links tend to be from higher quality sites.


        Paul

        There you go...

        No one will ever win this battle over the right way and the wrong way of doing article marketing.

        Half the audience thinks article marketing is simply throwing enough keywords on a page to get crawled by Google to gain a link that might could impress Google.

        The other half of the audience is looking to develop high-quality content for syndication, so that they can get direct traffic from the article, with SEO being a secondary consideration and a definite benefit.

        The final half of the audience thinks the other two groups are full of ****, and that there is no kind of value in article marketing whatsoever...



        And the fourth half of the audience think all article marketers create a bunch of gibberish keyword articles that amounts to nothing more than duplicate content spam, produced by people who have never produced any value for anyone else in their lives.

        With 230% on one side or the other, the value of article marketing will always be personal to the person who participates in it. Either it has value to them, or it doesn't.

        And to the naysayers, you can take your strength from the fact that thousands of people agree with your view on it, regardless of any other considerations. :rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author Eddie Titan
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Eddie,

        I think most people who syndicate quality content, as opposed to keyword spew spammers, are primarily interested in the direct traffic. Any SEO benefits that might accrue are secondary, or fit longer-term objectives.

        That doesn't mean they're unimportant, as those links tend to be from higher quality sites.


        Paul
        Yep, I agree Paul.

        I think article marketing should be done in that fashion. Write quality content for people not search engines and syndicate the content to multiple sources that will generate traffic to your websites. The backlinks come with the territory.

        In post 49 I was referring to what Google thinks of backlinks from duplicate/syndicated content as apposed to backlinks from unique content. There is a lot of variables, obviously, so the only way to understand how much more/less weight Google gives to unique content as apposed to duplicate/syndicated content should be based on one's own experiences with search engine rankings. I was just trying to see if other people have crunched their data and found something amusing to share with the rest of us regardless of whether it is similar to my results or not.

        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        No one will ever win this battle over the right way and the wrong way of doing article marketing.
        Bill you always seem to have a way with words. Good point.
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        • Profile picture of the author Barry Unruh
          Originally Posted by Eddie Titan View Post

          Bill you always seem to have a way with words.
          And I just thought he was trying to get his post ranked for the term "article marketing"...Which half does that put me in again?
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          • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
            I would also like to point out that a) Publishing an article on my own site b) Offering it for syndication to my private list of publishers, and c) Adding it to Ezine Articles, and occasionally one and at most two other directories, hardly constitutes "spamming the web", as nm5419 implies in post #28 above.

            Have you ever read Site Pro News? The majority of their widely read content is syndicated from other blogs and websites. Previously unpublished articles get top spots, but syndicated content is accepted, and in fact comprises the bulk of their site.

            Similarly, news feeds from all the major sources are syndicated far and wide across the web.
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Something else to spice up the stew...

              I'm going from memory here, but IIRC, Google considers everything on a page when calculating duplicate content - including the underlying html/javascript/etc. One of the problems ecommerce and catalog sites have is that the amount of 'unique' text on the page is minimal compared to the repeated content (navigation, repeated ads, disclaimers, etc.).

              That might tend to mean that finding the same 1kb of text on multiple pages of 5kb-25kb across multiple domains would never even trigger a flag for duplicate content.

              As I say, I'm going from memory, but the source was the SEO course the Stompernet guys sent out with their first big launch. I'm open to being 're-educated' on this one...
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              • Profile picture of the author rooze
                Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

                Something else to spice up the stew...

                I'm going from memory here, but IIRC, Google considers everything on a page when calculating duplicate content - including the underlying html/javascript/etc. One of the problems ecommerce and catalog sites have is that the amount of 'unique' text on the page is minimal compared to the repeated content (navigation, repeated ads, disclaimers, etc.).

                That might tend to mean that finding the same 1kb of text on multiple pages of 5kb-25kb across multiple domains would never even trigger a flag for duplicate content.

                As I say, I'm going from memory, but the source was the SEO course the Stompernet guys sent out with their first big launch. I'm open to being 're-educated' on this one...
                Hi John,

                That was correct for a long time but Google claims it now uses some weird 'snippet' technology, so it's able to look at snippets of content and establish if those same snippets appear elsewhere. It then has some sophisticated way of examining and grading each snippet to determine the degree of duplication (in other words, it's clever enough to detect when something is exactly the same, largely the same, pretty much the same, something similar or nothing like, not just the page as a whole, but sections/paragraphs on the page).
                They also claim to be working on new technology which is capable of removing the entire page template during processing of the algorithm. That would eliminate the variable of all the on-page extraneous clutter and just focus on the content.
                Now this is what Google claims (a Matt Cutt video) but we know they don't always tell us the truth
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                • Profile picture of the author tpw
                  Originally Posted by rooze View Post

                  Now this is what Google claims (a Matt Cutt video) but we know they don't always tell us the truth

                  Only listen to Google long enough to test what they say.

                  They can tell us that they have the technology or they are working on the technology, and that may be true.

                  But possessing the technology does not mean that it is part of their algorithms.

                  The actual search results they produce often happen despite those things that they promise will hurt our rankings...

                  Google does not live or die based on "unique content". They live or die based on the "quality of their results" as perceived by the majority of their users.

                  If "unique" was the leading factor in their search results, spam blogs full of spun gibberish would win the day. But it doesn't, does it?

                  Build and promote your sites for your users, with little regard for Google. Build and promote your sites in a way that they will continue to be successful, even if Google disappeared tomorrow. Do this, and you may be surprised when you find that Google loves your sites anyway.


                  Originally Posted by mello87 View Post

                  So lets say for direct traffic purposes from webmasters sites/article directories, it is okay to submit the same article multiple times? I.e. no need to spin?

                  Cheers
                  Yes. See above.
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                  • Profile picture of the author rooze
                    Originally Posted by tpw View Post

                    Only listen to Google long enough to test what they say.

                    They can tell us that they have the technology or they are working on the technology, and that may be true.

                    But possessing the technology does not mean that it is part of their algorithms.

                    The actual search results they produce often happen despite those things that they promise will hurt our rankings...

                    Google does not live or die based on "unique content". They live or die based on the "quality of their results" as perceived by the majority of their users.

                    If "unique" was the leading factor in their search results, spam blogs full of spun gibberish would win the day. But it doesn't, does it?

                    Build and promote your sites for your users, with little regard for Google. Build and promote your sites in a way that they will continue to be successful, even if Google disappeared tomorrow. Do this, and you may be surprised when you find that Google loves your sites anyway.

                    Yes. See above.
                    Hi Bill,

                    Thanks....

                    Not sure if your speech about how Google works was intended for me or you were just using a 'snippet' of something I said to help illustrate your point.

                    Cheers

                    Rooze
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                    • Profile picture of the author tpw
                      Originally Posted by rooze View Post

                      Hi Bill,

                      Thanks....

                      Not sure if your speech about how Google works was intended for me or you were just using a 'snippet' of something I said to help illustrate your point.

                      Cheers

                      Rooze

                      Rooze: To be honest, this is one of the few threads where I answered without reading the entire thread.

                      In this case, I ignored the thread, until I saw Paul Myers commenting on it. Then I read his post, responded to his comments, then started paying attention to the conversation at the end of the thread.

                      I did not see your original comments at all.

                      Maybe you and I share the same belief about how Google works, and how much value we should put on their recommendations?
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                      Publish Coloring Books for Profit (WSOTD 7-30-2015)
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  • Profile picture of the author mello87
    So lets say for direct traffic purposes from webmasters sites/article directories, it is okay to submit the same article multiple times? I.e. no need to spin?

    Cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author mello87
    Thanks Bill. There were quite a lot of posts, and some of the deliberating veered off into other aspects, so just wanted to make sure i wasn't being an idiot

    Many Thanks

    Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author SuperDJ
    Thanks for all the help guys. I think I've found my answer. I don't know how to 'thank' a post though. I use Google Chrome and can't see it anywhere on your posts. >.<
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by SuperDJ View Post

      Thanks for all the help guys. I think I've found my answer. I don't know how to 'thank' a post though. I use Google Chrome and can't see it anywhere on your posts.
      It will appear only after you've made 5 posts yourself. Good luck! And well done on surviving the "baptism of fire" you had, here, with your first thread being somewhat controversial through absolutely no fault of your own.
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