32 replies
I must say, sometimes it gets really annoying to be told, over and over again about a deadline and once the deadline passes, the offer has not changed.

I was bombarded recently with an offer for a "cartoon character" about how to make money by giving away stuff and not selling anything. Of course the deadline was "Tonight" and then it would go from "free" up to $197. Well days have passed, and of course the offer is still "Free".

Same thing happens with other well known marketers. It's not all of course. there are plenty of products that are sold out and then taken off the market.

But when does it just become either a flat out lie or just plain bullshit? Even the OTO is bullshit because many savvy people know how to clear heir cookies and then just go back to the page if they want the offer at the OTO price.

I've even seen pages where they claim it is a OTO, but there is nothing in place to make it a OTO. GO back the next day and the same page is there, claiming I will only ever see this page once...but I see it every time I go to it.

It's funny how nobody calls some of the well known marketers on the bullshit of phony deadlines or Bogus Values for the bonuses for fear of either being alienated or possibly never getting "in" with them.

Ever see that one too...I was going to sell this at $297, but I've decided to give it to you FREE as a bonus. So that makes the value $297? Come on...
#deadlines #fake
  • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
    Yeah, the old 'get it cheap whilst you can offer' is a well used marketing tactic, but it would be annoying if people don't follow it through.

    My guess is he / she hasn't had any success so they've just left it until it draws more people in.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dana_W
    "Even the OTO is bullshit because many savvy people know how to clear heir cookies and then just go back to the page if they want the offer at the OTO price."

    Well, that doesn't make the OTO b.s., it means that some people know how to cheat.

    But as for the rest of it - yes, if you claim that an offer is for a limited time only and it isn't, then you do lose credibility. Know what though? I doubt it hurts sales. You shouldn't do it - because it's just as easy to make an honest offer - but I doubt it hurts sales.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
      Agreed.

      Also, what about when they say there are only 500 copies left, now 365 copies, now just 65 copies left etc...

      That really bugs me and immediately I think bull****
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      • Profile picture of the author Frank Ayres
        Originally Posted by Steadyon View Post

        Agreed.

        Also, what about when they say there are only 500 copies left, now 365 copies, now just 65 copies left etc...

        That really bugs me and immediately I think bull****
        It isnt always bull, i have a limit and a countdown on my membership sites and it is genuine as the membership site software automatically updates it as someone joins or leaves
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by Dana_W View Post

      Well, that doesn't make the OTO b.s., it means that some people know how to cheat.
      Hmm. Is it cheating if someone's promotional material is not true. "You will only see this offer one time, so pay close attention"

      How about "If you are not very computer savvy and don't know how to erase your cookies, you will most likely see this offer one time only and therefore feel pressure to buy the product now - not realizing you could take months to really decide because the offer will still be here"

      Could you imagine an offer being made like that?
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      • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
        I'm not a lawyer, but, if I remember right, it is illegal in some states in the U.S. to offer a "sale" price on an item that is not really a sale but it's permanent price. And, there may be time limits on how long a "sale" may be held in order to be considered a sale price and not a regular price.

        Some people get around this by running a script that will list the item at regular price for one day every x days in order to qualify it as a sale.

        But, I bet most don't do that, and most probably aren't even aware of such laws. They just "do what everyone else is doing" and think it's okay.

        Perhaps there are similar laws covered one-time offers or limited time offers too.

        At any rate, the economy isn't great right now. Some states are hurting for funds. So, don't be surprised if states start poking around looking for people and businesses they can fine to boost their revenues...
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      • Profile picture of the author Lance K
        Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

        Hmm. Is it cheating if someone's promotional material is not true. "You will only see this offer one time, so pay close attention"

        How about "If you are not very computer savvy and don't know how to erase your cookies, you will most likely see this offer one time only and therefore feel pressure to buy the product now - not realizing you could take months to really decide because the offer will still be here"

        Could you imagine an offer being made like that?
        Clearing cookies won't help if the OTO is regulated by placing IP addresses on ban lists.
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        • Profile picture of the author Golelen
          Let's face it, at least in the IM products niche there is a lot of cheese. Sales pages that are 20 feet long, deadlines that aren't, a limited supply of product that isn't limited, etc. All that kind of stuff undermines credibility.

          A product should be able to stand on it's own merit w/o having to rely on underhanded sales tactics like some of those mentioned above. Most people are good and honest, but there are a few bad apples out there....
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          • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
            As far as the IP address. Yes, thats a better way to do it, but still easy to get around if you just change your IP address by using different wireless access.

            The big marketers I've seen don't use that though, only cookies.

            Deadlines do work. Ive had many people write to me after a deadline expired and beg me to extend the deadline or some people had a question about a product and wrote to me that they "hope I answer by the deadline".

            Marlon Sanders talks a great deal about deadlines saying thats the way to get people from leads to buyers - deadlines for bonuses...thats the biggie.

            Another pet peeve that I touched on is the value if these free bonuses that seem to come from nowhere. Free Bonus A - value $197. I always ask...Where?

            Where is it selling for $197??

            one time I asked this of a well known marketer on their blog in the comments...of course a day later my comment was erased and never answered.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    As you point out in your opening post, not ALL marketers are lying when they say an offer ends after a certain time or quantity.

    Here's my suggestion. Note when the offer "expires", then go back and check afterwards to see if it has indeed expired. If not, then they are lying. There's no gray area in that case, IMHO.

    Another suggestion. Do your best to ignore that part of the sales letter, and ask if you'd buy it without the possibility of a looming deadline. This suggestion is second, because it means you could be buying from someone who is unethical - and what does that say about every other aspect of their business?

    There really are those who limit quantities (SpudDS, others, and I are similar in that regard).

    Now, here's the thing. Even IF a marketer is ethical, and sticks to any limits they set - they still may be thought of as scammers for nothing more than using a common (and legitimate) sales technique.

    What it comes down do is this: Does the offer stand on its own without any deadlines (fake or real)?

    All the best,
    Michael
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      Take-away selling - ie. deadlines - is extremely powerful.

      It has lost a lot of credibility with Internet marketers doing
      it so badly though.

      I would be a little leary of getting your marketing information
      from sellers who use brazenly cheesy fake deadlines - because
      if that is one of their best tricks they are behind the times.

      We are in an age of skepticism. Such tactics undermine
      credibility if they aren't done in a cohesive way. Joe Sugarman
      has a video floating around somewhere where he sold his
      3 books for a silly-cheap price and forced the people in
      the room to make up their minds in 3 minutes or something.
      Then when a guy made up his mind too late Sugarman
      just said "I'm sorry sir" - illustrating that when you close
      the offer it's closed. Period.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric X Vignola
    That is the whole scarcity tactic. Just like the one with the script that shows today's date. I think that is kind of annoying as well, especially if you think about the offer and come back to it later and see that the date changed instead of staying the same.

    Really? you can't be more clever than that? Like anything you have good ethical marketers and you have people just using a scarcity tactic to try and rake in as much money as possible.

    The difference is if you actually USE the scarcity tactic you will get MORE sales as opposed to less. For example someone comes across you site, they see that it expires in 2 days or whatever. The decide to wait, two days later they come back and the offer is GONE, Sold Out whatever.

    Now the person feels like they get cheated but by themselves not the marketer, for not taking action sooner. Fast forward a week or however long. The person sees another offer from the same marketer on something else with a deadline on it, they will jump on it and spend less time thinking about it because they do not want to miss it this time.

    Scarcity = More Sales. Whoopie the tactic worked!

    The problem is most marketers forget this is a tactic that takes time (even though it is one that focuses on limiting time) and if you do not do it right no one will ever believe your "deadlines".

    so do the smart thing and do it right
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  • Profile picture of the author bladerunner
    I think that most people do not believe the SPECIAL PRICE and the REAL VALUE PRICE of some marketers ads
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    • Profile picture of the author Eric X Vignola
      Originally Posted by bladerunner View Post

      I think that most people do not believe the SPECIAL PRICE and the REAL VALUE PRICE of some marketers ads
      I think you are wrong. A lot of people in the IM and make money field might be savvy to this kind of marketing but why would someone who is looking to train their dog how to do a handstand know these little marketing tricks?

      You need to be aware of your market and the person you are selling it. It is foolish to use these "tricks" to IM and make money veterans who are wise to them unless you actually back them up by making them REAL.

      If you skimp on the real part it is pointless and make's us all look like shams. But you do not have to worry about that if you actually follow up with your marketing tactics and make it a special price that goes away for months after 2 days at a low price.
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  • Profile picture of the author Debbie Songster
    I must say, sometimes it gets really annoying to be told, over and over again about a deadline and once the deadline passes, the offer has not changed.
    I feel the same way - I think its deceitful especially when there are scripts out there to make the "page honest"

    For example I have 2 WSO's running
    On one the price will expire Midnight Jan 31 - go try it, it will be closed
    The other one is a limited numbers product - so when 75 are sold you won't be able to buy. It will be closed
    Both of these are managed by my Fantasos system so I don't have to think about it.

    My stores - today I just put up a 35% off coupon. The code expires midnight Jan 31. Its handled automatically by the system.

    This is basic technology so there is no excuse for a "sales page" to lie.
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  • Profile picture of the author mistermint
    Hi All,

    My first post here.

    Think a lot of those old tactics are dieing a grim death. There are so many disingenuous offers around, people are plain tired of it.

    IMO when your selling then, offer your best price first time not suck it and see prices with a tonne of rubbish bonuses. This just cheapens the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Top Deal
    It's like spamming to attract visitors and make money
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  • Profile picture of the author BillyD
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Ultracart also has real OTO's AFTER the sale is made. They call it upsell after.
      This is different.

      What I was referring to was OTO's after someone signs up for a freebie.

      Frankly, I never understood this...Someone is signing up for something free and then all of a sudden, before they can get their freebie, they are "made an offer". Most of the time it is not hidden that it is an OFFER. It's a real salesman tactic.

      But why would someone, looking to get their free somethingorother...want to all of a sudden buy something - sometimes for $197. Sometimes they are not only made 1 OTO but 3 in a row.

      Didn't take the first one - here is a lower priced second offer - didn't take that one - ok here is an even lower priced offer.

      I never understood how that could be effective to offer someone something for purchase, right then and there, when they are signing up for something free, and then made to jump through some hoops just to get their freebie.

      But hey, whaddo I know.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kenneth Fox
        I personally don't agree with setting time limits, price increases etc. without
        enforcing them but people in general are conditioned to act on such offers
        and this comes from infomercial marketing.

        I think it's very effective to use such take away strategies and I'm sure
        millions of people respond to them every day.

        Take a look at the next infomercial you see on tv and notice how they say
        things like, "Order in the next ten minutes and we will double the offer", or
        things like that.

        Or

        "Purchase your handy dandy steamer in the next five minutes and we will
        take off one whole payment"

        I think you get my point here. The fact is, this kind of marketing strategy
        has it's place if put together correctly but like a few of you have said, a
        lot of marketers butcher the whole process.
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      • Profile picture of the author PaidToEmpower
        Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

        Ultracart also has real OTO's AFTER the sale is made. They call it upsell after.
        This is different.

        What I was referring to was OTO's after someone signs up for a freebie.

        Frankly, I never understood this...Someone is signing up for something free and then all of a sudden, before they can get their freebie, they are "made an offer". Most of the time it is not hidden that it is an OFFER. It's a real salesman tactic.

        But why would someone, looking to get their free somethingorother...want to all of a sudden buy something - sometimes for $197. Sometimes they are not only made 1 OTO but 3 in a row.

        Didn't take the first one - here is a lower priced second offer - didn't take that one - ok here is an even lower priced offer.

        I never understood how that could be effective to offer someone something for purchase, right then and there, when they are signing up for something free, and then made to jump through some hoops just to get their freebie.

        But hey, whaddo I know.
        Not sure I know all that much either but I gotta believe that it must work, or you wouldn't see it so much...and, I have to admit I HAVE bought things when I was signing up for something free.

        By the same token, I have been annoyed when I had to jump through 3-4 hoops to get my free thing, when I was not interested in the purchase offers.

        I guess since everyone is different and there are a million different ways people can respond (even the same person), it makes sense to the marketer to just "keep puttin it out there".
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        • Profile picture of the author Tyson Faulkner
          This tactic is widely known and used, especially in the marketing community. What I don't understand, is why it is so popular to lie to people for money. Like other have said in this thread, if you say that the sale ends tomorrow, and it doesn't you are LYING.

          The fact is that marketers have control of their websites, and the one thing that we should be worrying about is being truthful. It bothers me that deceit is so wide spread and accepted.

          If you want to create scarcity, be creative and do something different. Be truthful about your offers and it will pay off in the end. Just because a lot of marketers say those cheesy little javascripts make them more sales, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

          Basically it all comes down to this: If you LIE knowingly, in order to make more sales. In the very basic sense you are lying for money, con artists do the same thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author mistermint
    Hi Kenneth, I'm in the UK, we have a company that sells furniture, they advertise on tv constantly, each week " The Sale Must End Monday" it's getting to be a national joke been like that for the past 14 years on the other hand they are still in biz lol
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    • Profile picture of the author Kenneth L
      We're Marketers and we sell things.

      If something like a O-T-O makes more money or "fake" scarcity...then I say use it.

      Absolutely.

      Before I got into Internet Marketing I bought things with fake scarcity because I believed it at the time and the fear of loss was big.

      Remember 99% of people you market to are not savvy Marketers.

      And also keep in mind you're almost certainly losing money if you don't use these tactics.

      Put simply, get over the fact you're a Marketer, a Salesman in Print, and get on with it.

      Use everything in your favour and stack the deck. Dan Kennedy speaks in this way and is one of the few who tells the truth about what we really do.

      Kenneth
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      • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
        Its either a LIE or NOT, its black and white, marketing tactic yes, a good one yes, abused yes, however, I am more focused on Credibility my own that is, than anything.

        Credibility serves us daily, keep yours intact, dont lie.

        Just my thoughts
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      • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
        Originally Posted by Kenneth Rearden View Post

        Put simply, get over the fact you're a Marketer, a Salesman in Print, and get on with it.

        Use everything in your favour and stack the deck. Dan Kennedy speaks in this way and is one of the few who tells the truth about what we really do.

        Kenneth
        This is an interesting comment. And I was saying to my wife last night when we were out food shopping last and I was criticizing a food label as being total bullshit because it had on it "facts" that are manipulated to benefit the product. Such as a bag of Potatoes with a big benefit labeled on the bag - Healthy for you because it has NO FAT.

        Of course it has no fat. No potato has ever had fat in it. That's a law of nature.

        Now maybe that's a bad example, but its the one that comes to mind right now.

        But it conveniently leaves off something like, sprayed with pesticides that will cause cancer. Even though this is true, it would damage sales so it's conveniently left off.

        And thats what marketing is...portraying something in its best light. Leaving out some things if it will hurt sales.

        When it comes down to it, its manipulation. And thats fine as long as you embrace that thats what you do as a marketer.

        But when it comes down to it, and maybe this is harsh for some people...much of it is bullshit.

        Yes bullshit. You are going to say the things that help your cause and leave out the things that don't.

        I agree with this comment you made Kenneth, but I guess what gets me is that fact that some marketers try to make it like they aren't bullshitting.

        When your email reads - and here is the exact part of the email I am talking about in print - "Do You Su.ck At Making Money" for only $0.00, but tonight at midnight the price is going up to $197.,"

        That email was sent Jan.26

        And if you go to the page advertised in that email, today it is not $197, but still "free" I put it in quotes because the goal is to get you to join a continuity program so the "Free" part is not really free, you have to pay shipping, anyway...

        The tactic is good, if it works, it's good.

        However, it is a lie, or plain and simple, bullshit.

        Now, if you can get over that fact, as Kenneth says, and, as he quotes Dan Kennedy says...that's fine.

        You embrace what you are doing...being a marketer and using every tactic you know how to increase sales.

        But as I said to my wife last night...it's like 90% of what marketers say and do is bullshit.

        Didn't Seth Godin write a book - "All marketers are liars"

        The salesletter tells people what they want to hear, with a deadline it knows is false. Many would call that bullshit.
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        • Profile picture of the author radhika
          I have seen so many web site which says 'Offer expires tonight'. But there passes somany nights.... But the offer is still be there ...

          ONLY THING that determines you on buying is, if you need that product or not.

          Why do you get so upset about other offers? If you need the product really bad, pat yourself for saving money and buy it. You don't need it , move on. What is the use in stressing out yourself?

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  • Profile picture of the author filterstb
    I've these generated deadline ads a couple of times, more recently when looking for printer toner. It is suspicious looking to have a deadline just so happen to be an hour or two away...so I try to ignore it. I think, well, I'll get this product if it looks good to me and I like the price being offered. I think that should be the only reason to buy anyway, with or without an advertised "deal."
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  • Profile picture of the author BFMedia
    Even in my younger IM days, I avoided any marketer that used petty tactics such as the one described...I mean, I really feel like it insults my intelligence! I know that sounds silly...but it does.

    It's amazing how many people still fall for that very old, and very worn out tactic. As someone mentioned above, it IS a great way to close a deal a lot faster than normal, but the IM crowd (the wannabe gurus who take advantage of rookie IM'ers) has seriously ruined it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steadyon
    Or what about this kind of storyline:

    "Hey guys the doors are only open until Midnight Friday. After that we can't take any more orders. So be sure to check your emails when the doors open on Friday morning..."

    The following week (truth in brackets):

    "Hey guys, due to the unprecedented response (very little response) we are able to reopen the doors again for a few hours this week (I hope we get some more orders).

    We want everyone to be able to take advantage of this offer (we need more sales).

    We realised that when we sent the last email out it was holiday time in Timbuktu and not everyone would have had a chance to see their emails (boy do we need some more sales).

    We want to be fair to everyone and so we will reopen for a short while(maybe we will reopen everyweek until this things finally dries up).

    Also, we just realised that we had this super duper bonus that was just lying around in a box in the cellar that we want you to have (ok so the last bonuses weren't enough so we'll try this one).

    Blow me, we just realised that there is a credit crunch on right now and everyone should be able to pay by installments. Silly of us to keep asking you for $1997 all in one go (boy do we really need your business and if you pay by installments it will only end up costing you even more).

    So be sure to get it before the new deadline or you will miss out again (yes, maybe for just another week and perhaps we can pull the rabbit out of the hat and get the cleaning lady to crash our servers again)."


    Slightly cynical perhaps, but I am a little jaded from all of the excessive over the top hype I've been subjected to lately.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt

    Hurry and Post Your Opinions Now!

    This thread will be locked in 10 minutes.
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  • Profile picture of the author scoobywow
    Not all sellers are lying as outlined in your opening post and some of the replies below, but if it is for real do you think they can prove it - what if a law states that you may have to.....
    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-new-post.html

    Regards Roger
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  • Profile picture of the author tscott_87
    Yes, I've noticed that as well, and it can get pretty annoying. I know they are trying to use the law of scarcity/law of whatever it is with deadlines... law of wanting something now? Anyway, it's alright I suppose if it's true. But it definitely does get old and gets me aggravated if the seller is lying.
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