Help! 5 Minute Refund Request & Paypal....

50 replies
I know there have been many discussions on customers purchasing and then immediately asking for a refund.....which is simply a blatant attempt to rip the seller off.

I know there's not much anyone can do when using clickbank and the serial refund requester must be refunded without recourse.

But what about Paypal?

Some guy purchased a product from me, downloaded and requested a refund all within 5 minutes according to the timestamps on my emails. And in about another hour I got a refund claim from paypal!

Is paypal any better than clickbank at protecting the merchant?

I know I probably should just refund this guy, but its the principle of it. The guy didn't even have time to unzip the package before he asked for a refund ....and the jerk really pisses me off!

Will paypal support me if I contest this refund request? Whats the best way of asking Paypal for their support?

Or will paypal blackmark me for getting the refund request and could I be in danger of losing my paypal account?

I really hate being held up like this

Let me know what I should do....Please!


Thanks,


Scott
#minute #paypal #refund #refund request #request
  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    Hi Scott

    It happens to the best of us and yes it pisses you off.

    You could contest it with paypal, but what's the point, you just get stressed and upset and you'll probably refund him in the end anyway cos he's doing your head in.

    Kim
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  • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
    Hi Scott,

    What was the claim with Paypal for. If its a digital item and he claim that he didnt receive it..show paypal the proof that he did, and that its a digital item. Normally, they will side you.

    But seriously,m this is a better optin. Refund him back.. and ban his IP throughout all your site(s).
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    • Profile picture of the author Jamie Iaconis
      Hi,

      I had a similar situation recently...

      A guy bought something from me, then said the DL didn't work
      somehow, so he purchased again, then he goes on to "claim"
      un-authorized use on his account to get both payments back...

      Since Paypal didn't give him the refunds, he went
      on a did a chargeback on both and that is where
      I am at now, I will lose the chargebacks, but he should
      have emailed after the first purchase to get the DL.

      GEEZ... the freaking nerve of some people!

      [EDIT]

      Usually for digital products, claims will go in your
      favor, but chargebacks you will get screwed

      [END EDIT]
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      • Profile picture of the author scottparat
        Jamie....I'm curious. Did the guy do a chargeback through his credit card or through paypal?

        If the chargeback is through his credit card, are they a given? I mean, does the credit card company refund regardless of the situation?

        Thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author Jamie Iaconis
          Originally Posted by scottparat View Post

          Jamie....I'm curious. Did the guy do a chargeback through his credit card or through paypal?

          If the chargeback is through his credit card, are they a given? I mean, does the credit card company refund regardless of the situation?

          Thanks
          Hi,

          Yes... chargebacks are initiated through the credit card company
          and I have had a few run-ins with chargebacks now...

          They have, in every case, all digital products, granted the chargeback
          as I feel Paypal is basically powerless in chargebacks situations...

          That what it seems like to me anyways... if it
          was physical products, you could provide shipping
          details yada yada, but digital products I gather the
          credit card companies see no proof of delivery etc

          Not too sure.
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        • Profile picture of the author scottparat
          Please don't assume that the buyer is trying to rip the seller off. I have, on occasion, bought a product that didn't do what I thought it was going to do. I'm not saying the seller misrepresented the product. It may have been the product was too basic or too sophisticated for my needs. Or didn't have the information I thought would be included.
          Sorry Dee....I'm not buying your logic. Although I trust that you destroy the file....99% won't.

          First my salespage clearly describes the product. Second, there's no way you could unzip it take it for a test drive...then figure out that its not for you, find my email address, write the email all within 5 minutes. If you can do that you've had too much practice.

          Secondly, I can't go to BestBuy and purchase a software product, open up the box and then ask for a refund.

          Third, never purchase anything in a brick and mortar store...let along a digital download, expecting to bring it home to see if I like it and then whimsically return it. Might be just me, maybe I'm old fashioned in my thinking.

          Thanks for the input though
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  • Profile picture of the author grumpyb
    This is a common problem on paypal as well
    they paypal will always rule aginst you unless you can prove delivery which is real hard to do with a digital product.
    So unless you are in a position to deal with this Fraud in the legal system then I guess the least stressfull way is to put it down to exoerience and factor into your numbers a percentage to cover these events
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    • Profile picture of the author DeePower
      I know there have been many discussions on customers purchasing and then immediately asking for a refund.....which is simply a blatant attempt to rip the seller off.

      Please don't assume that the buyer is trying to rip the seller off. I have, on occasion, bought a product that didn't do what I thought it was going to do. I'm not saying the seller misrepresented the product. It may have been the product was too basic or too sophisticated for my needs. Or didn't have the information I thought would be included.

      I don't buy many digital products but the first thing I do is skim the contents. I can tell pretty quickly, within 5 minutes whether it's the product I thought I bought. If I do ask for a refund I destroy the files on my hard drive.

      Dee
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by DeePower View Post

        I know there have been many discussions on customers purchasing and then immediately asking for a refund.....which is simply a blatant attempt to rip the seller off.

        Please don't assume that the buyer is trying to rip the seller off. I have, on occasion, bought a product that didn't do what I thought it was going to do. I'm not saying the seller misrepresented the product. It may have been the product was too basic or too sophisticated for my needs. Or didn't have the information I thought would be included.

        I don't buy many digital products but the first thing I do is skim the contents. I can tell pretty quickly, within 5 minutes whether it's the product I thought I bought. If I do ask for a refund I destroy the files on my hard drive.

        Dee
        exactly! I too have requested a refund after buying a product (once or twice over 12 years of doing business on the internet) for the same reasons. Not everyone who requests a refund is a scammer. Our job as marketers is to give good customer service if we are to survive and if that means giving a refund once in a while to an unhappy client, then so be it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sweebit
    Getting a scammer every once in awhile is part of being in business on the net. Refund the guy. Tighten up your security, and don't lose any sleep over it. Put your efforts into making more sales and not worrying about the occasional loss. Every business on the internet has money set aside for calculated loss. Its just par for the course. In my experience, paypal will most likely make you give a refund. So, instead of spending hours on the phone trying to get something accomplished with them and risking your paypal accout, just refund and move on. AJ
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  • Profile picture of the author havplenty
    I think paypal is blatantly ripping off its users. Recently I had a unauthorized transaction claim against my account. Paypal claims that the transaction was reversed, however, my balance before the transaction occurred was affected.

    I don't know much about online accounting, but if I have $10 in my account and some puts in another $10 and takes it back, my balance shouldn't be $0. And that's what has happened to me.

    I don't know quite how to fix this problem, which is very ongoing, and I would appreciate any tips that can help.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sweebit
      Originally Posted by havplenty View Post

      I think paypal is blatantly ripping off its users. Recently I had a unauthorized transaction claim against my account. Paypal claims that the transaction was reversed, however, my balance before the transaction occurred was affected.

      I don't know much about online accounting, but if I have $10 in my account and some puts in another $10 and takes it back, my balance shouldn't be $0. And that's what has happened to me.

      I don't know quite how to fix this problem, which is very ongoing, and I would appreciate any tips that can help.
      Don't feel bad. Paypal stole 4k from me. True story. They do rip people off. I wish I could say different but their system is designed to make money. They do it legally. They double bill, they double collect, and they freeze accounts with cash in them and keep the money. Period. I have proof. AJ Sorry, not all will have a bad experience, but most will. If you want I can give you a website URL with thousands and thousands of people fighting paypal for losing money. I know 1 guy got 60k taken, and he lost his business. AJ
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      • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
        Posts like this make me laugh

        Paypal stole 4k from me be interesting to see the instances surrounding this

        but their system is designed to make money. Bloody hell and here was me thinking they were a charity all this time, I didn't think for one moment they were an actual business designed to make money!!!

        I can give you a website URL with thousands and thousands of people fighting paypal for losing money Don't believe everything you read online, and if you're talking about paypalsucks.com then many of those stories are either years old or there were circumstances surrounding them
        not divulged


        Originally Posted by Sweebit View Post

        Don't feel bad. Paypal stole 4k from me. True story. They do rip people off. I wish I could say different but their system is designed to make money. They do it legally. They double bill, they double collect, and they freeze accounts with cash in them and keep the money. Period. I have proof. AJ Sorry, not all will have a bad experience, but most will. If you want I can give you a website URL with thousands and thousands of people fighting paypal for losing money. I know 1 guy got 60k taken, and he lost his business. AJ
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        • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
          Originally Posted by Kim Standerline View Post

          Posts like this make me laugh

          Paypal stole 4k from me be interesting to see the instances surrounding this

          but their system is designed to make money. Bloody hell and here was me thinking they were a charity all this time, I didn't think for one moment they were an actual business designed to make money!!!

          I can give you a website URL with thousands and thousands of people fighting paypal for losing money Don't believe everything you read online, and if you're talking about paypalsucks.com then many of those stories are either years old or there were circumstances surrounding them
          not divulged
          I'm with Kim. I've had a PayPal account since 2000 with 0 problems. If you violate PayPal's terms of service, ie use their service to market illegal schemes, etc...then you are asking for trouble.
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          • Profile picture of the author Sweebit
            Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

            I'm with Kim. I've had a PayPal account since 2000 with 0 problems. If you violate PayPal's terms of service, ie use their service to market illegal schemes, etc...then you are asking for trouble.
            LOL. I sold computers. Good ones. I never marketed anything illegal or violated TOS. They have tricks. But, until your account is frozen and you go through it, you will definitely side with them. I had no problems for a year and a half. They were perfect. Then wam. They started running me through the gauntlet. 1 freeze right after the other. Anyway, I don't want to stear you away from paypal because they do work for some people. All I am saying is that they have been dishonest, and its possible someday they could be with you. Papal's system systematically freezes accounts. One of my clients had his paypal account frozen because he filed a chargeback on his credit card. Paypal froze his account stating he should have filed a claim through paypal and not filed a CC chargeback. His account is still frozen. He can't use paypal, and he had 300 bucks in there. When is the last time your bank froze your account? They play like a bank, and they are not. They are a merchant. Thats all Im saying.... I did over 100k in business with paypal before they stole 4k from me. You don;t treat people that way. I just don't agree with how they do business. But, like I said, until your on the recieving end you will side with them. I did.
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            • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
              Originally Posted by Sweebit View Post

              LOL. I sold computers. Good ones. I never marketed anything illegal or violated TOS. They have tricks. But, until your account is frozen and you go through it, you will definitely side with them. I had no problems for a year and a half. They were perfect. Then wam. They started running me through the gauntlet. 1 freeze right after the other. Anyway, I don't want to stear you away from paypal because they do work for some people. All I am saying is that they have been dishonest, and its possible someday they could be with you. Papal's system systematically freezes accounts. One of my clients had his paypal account frozen because he filed a chargeback on his credit card. Paypal froze his account stating he should have filed a claim through paypal and not filed a CC chargeback. His account is still frozen. He can't use paypal, and he had 300 bucks in there. When is the last time your bank froze your account? They play like a bank, and they are not. They are a merchant. Thats all Im saying.... I did over 100k in business with paypal before they stole 4k from me. You don;t treat people that way. I just don't agree with how they do business. But, like I said, until your on the recieving end you will side with them. I did.
              if that's the case, I'm very sorry this happened to you. PayPal do have procedures to follow and everyone who uses their services has to be aware of their TOS before using them. I'm sorry but I still find it very hard to believe that they would freeze someone's account for no good reason.
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              • Profile picture of the author Charles E. White
                I sold a product that was to be downloaded. The download page stated it was in a zip file. A woman purchased the product and requested a refund within a minute....why? Because she said she didn't have a zip drive. I gave her the damn refund, I figured if she was that damn dumb an explanation wouldn't help any. Just refund the guy.

                I have done business with PayPal since they started and some days over 10K a day and have never had a problem with them. I guess I'm lucky!
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              • Profile picture of the author Sweebit
                Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

                if that's the case, I'm very sorry this happened to you. PayPal do have procedures to follow and everyone who uses their services has to be aware of their TOS before using them. I'm sorry but I still find it very hard to believe that they would freeze someone's account for no good reason.
                I am not really sure why paypal does what they do. I don't trust them so I prefer not to use them. I like to be in control of my money and not subject to some 3rd parties decision on what should happen with my money. I use a few other merchants including google checkout and have not had a problem with any other merchant at all. The money goes directly into my bank account. Since I quit using paypal I have not had 1 single chargeback or refund asked by ANYONE. So, by that, I can only determine that paypal adds headaches. Because I am not doing anything different now than I was then. I am glad you guys haven't had any problems with paypal. I actually myself find that hard to believe, but thats good. Maybe you have built up a good relationship with paypal and they leave your account alone. Who knows. All I know is that I have seen them cheat good people. I dont trust them so I'll stick with ones I trust.
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              • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
                Originally Posted by Karen Blundell View Post

                if that's the case, I'm very sorry this happened to you. PayPal do have procedures to follow and everyone who uses their services has to be aware of their TOS before using them. I'm sorry but I still find it very hard to believe that they would freeze someone's account for no good reason.
                As someone that has been verified by paypal for about 7 years or so I will tell you now that the security team will in-fact freeze your account just to do normal security checks. The entire time you can not get any payments and this goes on for about 2 days unless it is on the weekend...

                What you got to realize is paypal has laws they must follow, so they do random security checks on accounts.

                James
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                • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
                  [DELETED]
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
                    I've had my paypal account "frozen" when we took a massive amount of money within a short period of time however all we had to do was some verification and security checks and it was fine. Everything was back up and running within a couple of hours

                    And freezing meant we could do everything as usual except draw money out which wasn't a hardship for the sake of a couple of hours

                    BTW Sweebit, Paypal, Google checkout etc are not merchant accounts as such, they are third party processors, there is a difference.

                    They also have to show they are behaving responsibly and within the law, so of course they have to be seen to ensuring their security procedures are valid

                    Kim

                    Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                    Out of curiousity, James, why does the law allow Paypal to freeze the funds in your account for these "security checks"? I've never heard of a real bank doing this. Not that I'm against Paypal, by any means - I've been using them almost since their inception without every having a problem or having my account frozen. Are these "security checks" random or intigated by some sort of suspicious circumstance?

                    Tina G
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                  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
                    Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                    Out of curiousity, James, why does the law allow Paypal to freeze the funds in your account for these "security checks"? I've never heard of a real bank doing this. Not that I'm against Paypal, by any means - I've been using them almost since their inception without every having a problem or having my account frozen. Are these "security checks" random or intigated by some sort of suspicious circumstance?

                    Tina G
                    Tina,
                    Well I can't really say the law allows them but I know I had a security check out of the blue on my account after doing a WSO last year. They put a freeze on the entire account, then they check the account and all business information and such must be up to date according to FTC regulations. Then they ask you questions and if all is well they open the account again. Process normally takes 2 business days.

                    I also never knew this until it happened to my account of of the blue.. No chargebacks or anything, just a random security check.

                    James
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                    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
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                      • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
                        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

                        Hmm, during a WSO, huh? Maybe the sudden influx triggered it, then. I would think as long as you're legitimate and have the proper records, then it shouldn't be too big of an inconvenience. I was under the impression that you couldn't use the account at all but if you can do everything but withdraw, what's the big deal?

                        Tina G
                        When they do a full security check the account is frozen.. During my WSO I lost sales but I also got PM's asking what the deal was and I explained and those customers waited for paypal to get their crap together and they came back.

                        Point is though paypal can do it and it can very well cost you big time when they do. I do not say this to scare anyone away from paypal, fact is paypal is all I use and I will use until they day eBay shuts it down.

                        James
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                        • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
                          One way to avoid this is to phone PayPal and inform them that you are about to run a sale and expect a huge influx of new transactions. This way they know to expect it and you are less likely to get flagged for a rush of sales in a short time period.

                          Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

                          When they do a full security check the account is frozen.. During my WSO I lost sales but I also got PM's asking what the deal was and I explained and those customers waited for paypal to get their crap together and they came back.

                          Point is though paypal can do it and it can very well cost you big time when they do. I do not say this to scare anyone away from paypal, fact is paypal is all I use and I will use until they day eBay shuts it down.

                          James
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                          • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
                            Originally Posted by Johnny Slater View Post

                            One way to avoid this is to phone PayPal and inform them that you are about to run a sale and expect a huge influx of new transactions. This way they know to expect it and you are less likely to get flagged for a rush of sales in a short time period.
                            Hi Johnny,
                            Thanks, yeah I got that from Bev..lol The WSO I ran was a little bit back now but I have learned from what Bev posted shortly after I had to deal with it..

                            James
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    • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
      Originally Posted by havplenty View Post

      I think paypal is blatantly ripping off its users. Recently I had a unauthorized transaction claim against my account. Paypal claims that the transaction was reversed, however, my balance before the transaction occurred was affected.

      I don't know much about online accounting, but if I have $10 in my account and some puts in another $10 and takes it back, my balance shouldn't be $0. And that's what has happened to me.


      I don't know quite how to fix this problem, which is very ongoing, and I would appreciate any tips that can help.
      There should be $10 in your account. Did you use the money for other purchase. Look in your recent transaction to see where the money went.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jamie Iaconis
      Originally Posted by havplenty View Post

      I think paypal is blatantly ripping off its users. Recently I had a unauthorized transaction claim against my account. Paypal claims that the transaction was reversed, however, my balance before the transaction occurred was affected.

      I don't know much about online accounting, but if I have $10 in my account and some puts in another $10 and takes it back, my balance shouldn't be $0. And that's what has happened to me.

      I don't know quite how to fix this problem, which is very ongoing, and I would appreciate any tips that can help.
      Funny thing, me too...

      It seems to me that they take a $10 or $20 (something)
      fee everytime something like this happens...

      I should know the exact figure, but nevermind it because
      they're gonna take it anyways and I'll be wasting my time.

      Like I said though... I believe there is a $10 or $20 fee when
      someone either makes a claim or they deal with a chargeback.

      Sucks ass, but what can you do, it's Paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kristi Lane
    What is your stated refund policy for the product in question?

    Kristi
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    Hi Scott,
    Digital products are not overed under paypal's terms, any complaint or claim just prove the person downloaded the product and that is pretty much about all you need to do.

    I got one of those recently for one of my downloadable products, buyer made complaint "not received".. So I replied and told seller here is the stats that prove you did in-fact get it. Then I tuened around and emailed them another link for download.

    Buyer refused to remove the complaint so I esculated it to a paypal claim , yes sellers are allowed to do that. I then gave paypal all the proof and told paypal that is it a virtual product and they did get exactly what they paid for. I then gave paypal the actual url of where it shows I will not refund on a virtual product as the sales copy has no hype on it at all.. It says exactly what the product is.

    So I let paypal handle it and deal with it... I will see my money put back in a few days..

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
    I've said this a few times in threads like this, there are some very good reasons to use password protected download areas and this is one of them.

    I have had PayPal claims and credit card chargbacks ruled in my favor because I proved that the purchase was for a digital product and that the customer did in fact recieve the product. My proof was the access logs that the scripts I used created ( which showed the customers name and IP address) and the emails from the customers.

    In any contact you have with customers through PayPal put a statement at the beginning saying something similar to this: "This was a digital purchase and the customer accessed my password protected members area to download the product. The customer still has access to this area and has full access to the product purchased. Because this is a digital purchase it is not covered by the Buyer Protection policy of PayPal."

    Adding that statement alone will win almost every claim. When you add in the access log information and any emails where customer says they did in fact access the protected download area and you will win pretty much every case. I won't say you will win every one, but in over 2 years I have only lost 2 Paypal claims and have won all but 1 chargeback claims using this process.
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    • Profile picture of the author scottparat
      Thanks Johnny for this suggestion:

      Originally Posted by Johnny Slater

      In any contact you have with customers through PayPal put a statement at the beginning saying something similar to this: "This was a digital purchase and the customer accessed my password protected members area to download the product. The customer still has access to this area and has full access to the product purchased. Because this is a digital purchase it is not covered by the Buyer Protection policy of PayPal."
      You probably won't answer this, but how many refund requests have you had since you started? I wonder simply because I'm afraid to piss off paypal. But if you can have 100 refund requests without them bouncing you, then I'll definitely fight it

      Thanks again
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      • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
        Scott,

        In total I've had about 30 refund requests since I started selling products online. I did have a very high refund rate for a short period because I didn't position my product properly and didn't have the user manual updated at the time.

        PayPal will not raise an eyebrow at the random few refund requests. The most important thing is to make sure that if you have a refund policy posted on your sales page that you do honor it. That doesn't mean you have to give in and give a refund to everyone, but just that you make sure to stand by your own words.

        Originally Posted by scottparat View Post

        Thanks Johnny for this suggestion:



        You probably won't answer this, but how many refund requests have you had since you started? I wonder simply because I'm afraid to piss off paypal. But if you can have 100 refund requests without them bouncing you, then I'll definitely fight it

        Thanks again
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Hey Scott,

    Paypal will back you up on this. To prove the buyer had (has) access to the download, included the download link in your reply messages so that both PP and your customer have absolute proof they have access.

    But as others have said, the customer can issue a chargeback and you'll end up losing the money down the road.

    Unless the person was a real jerk, it's probably best to just refund and get the issue off your mind and spend the time trying to get a couple of sales.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Hey Scott,

      Paypal will back you up on this. To prove the buyer had (has) access to the download, included the download link in your reply messages so that both PP and your customer have absolute proof they have access.

      But as others have said, the customer can issue a chargeback and you'll end up losing the money down the road.

      Unless the person was a real jerk, it's probably best to just refund and get the issue off your mind and spend the time trying to get a couple of sales.
      Kurt,
      This is the problem though.. If you can prove they did in-fact download your product then stand your ground and prove your point. When we as sellers just say "I do not want to deal with this, here is your money back" it sends a message to buyers that it is ok to rip us off..

      This is why you have stats and the ability to prove that someone actual got what they paid for.

      James
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet View Post

        Kurt,
        This is the problem though.. If you can prove they did in-fact download your product then stand your ground and prove your point. When we as sellers just say "I do not want to deal with this, here is your money back" it sends a message to buyers that it is ok to rip us off..

        This is why you have stats and the ability to prove that someone actual got what they paid for.

        James
        James,

        I disagree. For one, "stats" don't mean a thing and can be faked very easily. Like I said, include a download link in your initial response, that's proof they have access to the download, as a PP rep can also download the link and they know the buyer got the message.

        Second, chances are you'll get a chargeback any way. PP doesn't mind refunds, but get too many chargebacks and you're risking you PP account.

        But like I said, if the person is a real jerk, go ahead and fight it. If not, I'm not going to fight every battle, considering that if the buyer asks for a chargeback, they'll get it. Fight over.
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        • Profile picture of the author TeamGlobal
          Hey Scott,

          I agree that it can be very frustrating especially if we don't feel as if the customer took the time to see the real value in the product.


          Re:"Let me know what I should do....Please!"

          If you have a guarantee policy then stick to it and issue the refund regardless of how you feel about it.

          All The Best,


          Tony
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        • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          James,

          I disagree. For one, "stats" don't mean a thing and can be faked very easily. Like I said, include a download link in your initial response, that's proof they have access to the download, as a PP rep can also download the link and they know the buyer got the message.

          Second, chances are you'll get a chargeback any way. PP doesn't mind refunds, but get too many chargebacks and you're risking you PP account.

          But like I said, if the person is a real jerk, go ahead and fight it. If not, I'm not going to fight every battle, considering that if the buyer asks for a chargeback, they'll get it. Fight over.
          Kurt,
          Depends upon what kind of stats, servers raw access files can not be faked and I do mean raw access files not cpanel stats. I always would provide a link to any download in response to paypal, this is something any seller should do.

          Chargebacks from Credit Cards are a different kind of battle and some can be won and some not. Fact is if the credit card company or bank wants their money back then they will get it.

          This greatly also depends upon what type of product, for example a developed website from scratch would be handled differently then just a digital download.

          I would agree that sometimes it is just best to refund and get it over with but there are cases that you just need to stand your ground and make your point. Specifically if we are talking about a large ticket item.

          James
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  • Profile picture of the author Mo Goulet
    I purchased a program a while back that allows me to transform a digital download into an .EXE file which I can set an expiration date to and other options like pop ups or have a page open in their browser when they close out. You could simply distribute the .EXE file with a 30 day expiration which will be absolutely no good to those who get refunds and automatically send your customers a 30 day thank you for being a customer with a new non-EXE file.

    There are certain products I lock up that way with no options locked in so it does not annoy people and it looks just like a pdf when opened and there have been no complaints.

    I've also been thanked when I send them a "Hi just checking to make sure you are happy with the "product name" you got last month and here is the updated version" email.

    I haven't had anyone ask for a refund so I haven't had the pleasure of seeing their face when they try to open it after 30 days or worse yet if they sell it or give it to anyone else....LOL


    Oh well just a thought...
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  • Profile picture of the author Emailrevealer
    Here's one of my complaints about paypal:

    I have paypal and a real merchant payment account with authorize.net.
    If I get a chargeback thru a CC company I just fax over a copy of my report I provided the client and the money is back in my account in 10 days. Every single time.

    If I get a payapal claim I email a copy of the report. I explain to paypal that its a digital product then I mail a copy of the report with a tracking # and I win the paypal claim 100% of the time.
    Unless the client says the magic words that allow them to buy and steal anything they want online with paypal. I'm not going to reveal that scam but its 100% foolproof way to steal with paypal.

    But even when I win a claim with payapal then the client can go and do a charge back with their CC co and Paypal is suposed to "fight for me" but I guess they don't because I lose that every time.

    Why is it I can provide less proof to my real merchant credit card processing service and win but provide more proof thru pay pal and lose?
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  • Profile picture of the author bob_sikorski
    "The customer is always right" in the eyes of Paypal and even the credit card companies. Unless you state that there are no refunds, the customer is entitled to a refund no matter what their reason is.

    Accept it! It's just part of dealing with all the idiots out there in our society.

    BTW, Paypal is great as long as you follow their guidelines. I've talked to them several times over the phone throughout my many years on the net and came out very satisfied. They will always side with the buyer.

    Bob
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    Bob Sikorski

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  • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
    Forget about Paypal's 'seller protection policy' or their 'no refunds on digital products' thing.

    Give the guy a refund and walk away.

    If you get too many of these, PayPal will classify you as high risk and quickly say 'buh bye'.

    And for all the people that say "just call paypal and explain things to them"...sure, that works sometimes, but if your account gets forwarded to their 'bean counter' department, none of that matters.

    Issue the refund and go on with your business.
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    • Profile picture of the author scottparat
      Just wanted to say "thanks" to everyone who took time to comment.

      I guess I need to install DLguard so I can track purchases better. If I decide to fight a refund request, it sounds like I'd be better armed.

      As I thought, looks like the situation makes many angry, making some fight the scumbags who are serial refunders but most probably just go ahead and refund.

      Tony gets how I feel as most probably do:

      Originally Posted by TeamGlobal

      Hey Scott,

      I agree that it can be very frustrating especially if we don't feel as if the customer took the time to see the real value in the product.


      Re:"Let me know what I should do....Please!"

      If you have a guarantee policy then stick to it and issue the refund regardless of how you feel about it.

      All The Best,


      Tony
      And Kurt, amongst others takes not of my biggest fear, losing my paypal account.

      Originally Posted by Kurt

      Second, chances are you'll get a chargeback any way. PP doesn't mind refunds, but get too many chargebacks and you're risking you PP account.

      But like I said, if the person is a real jerk, go ahead and fight it. If not, I'm not going to fight every battle, considering that if the buyer asks for a chargeback, they'll get it. Fight over.
      Charles....your customer takes the prize. If I had a 10K day, I would have send the poor woman $20

      Originally Posted by Charles E. White

      I sold a product that was to be downloaded. The download page stated it was in a zip file. A woman purchased the product and requested a refund within a minute....why? Because she said she didn't have a zip drive. I gave her the damn refund, I figured if she was that damn dumb an explanation wouldn't help any. Just refund the guy.

      I have done business with PayPal since they started and some days over 10K a day and have never had a problem with them. I guess I'm lucky

      Bottom line for me.

      Although I've only had about 3 paypal refunds in the last 4 years or so (I won't mention clickbank refunds), I'm always afraid the worse could happen and lose my paypal account. With all the links and pages I've got out there with paypal buttons, it would be a major setback.

      Soooo, like most suggested I guess I'll just swallow hard and give the jerk his money.


      Thanks again everyone!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Francis
    create a new paypal account , than leave it as unverified and send all payment to bank account if you have negative create new one you wont have to refund .
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    Have a good PPC campaign with good ROI but don't have the capital to make use of it ? PM me.

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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichVillain
    ive lost a few claims on pp and won some too :-)
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    "Move over Rich Jerk, here comes the Rich Villain!

    Daily Paypal Payouts, 70% Commission, Best Conversions Ever!"


    www.RichVillain.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Glenn Bradley Cooper
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Charann Miller
    I laid out everything crystal clear in my WSO, gaves samples of the content quality, chapters of my ebook and even gave screenshots of the graphics buyers receive and this customer still asks for a refund with 2 hours his reason was that it wasn't what he was looking for.

    That was why I included everything upfront so that they could make an informed buyers decision and they knew exactly what they would be getting. Point is no matter how perfect your product is you will always get refunds, albeit by dodgy people but it's just the nature of the game.

    Best to just do it and chalk it up to experience, if the same Paypal email address comes up time and time again requesting a refund I'd find a way to block them from buying from you.

    Just my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Whisonant
    With the economy going down and down, it's only going to get more and more people becoming serial refunders.

    One refund request is fine. Your product is just not for them. Just refund them.

    But if they keep demanding refunds for every product they buy from you, it's time to block them from purchasing any further products from you.

    Re's
    Rob Whisonant
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