Paypal Dispute Problem - A Loophole in Paypal Network : Share Your Views

44 replies
Hello all,

A client ordered my Services by purchasing from my website ( Shopping Cart). Paid via Paypal and I was suppose to submit the report in 45 days time.

Update (13th Jan 2012):- Today Paypal Refunded the payment to Buyer and Also Charged me $50 Settlement Fee. Read my This Post for details.

We started it and work is almost done.

Today we got 1 mail from Paypal that client filed chargeback saying He did not made that transaction.

Here is the Paypal mail text
The buyer claims that this purchase was made without authorisation to use
the credit card. Their credit card issuer needs additional information from
you about this transaction.
Now we have almost finished his work, the deadline is not over yet, still he filed charge back.

I discussed with some of my friends and all said in this case Paypal always return money to buyer.

Now isnt this a big problem for us? without any fault and even after doing all work paypal will refund the money to buyer.

Is it a loophole in Paypal system as many said Paypal will only give decision in the favor or buyer.

I responded Paypal with the Screenshot of buyers email ( Order Submission Form) and I also have details of my shopping cart by which we received order.

Did anyone face similar problem? What should I do in this case...

Hope I will get some genuine advice here.
Sorry if you find typo errors, I am frustrated and typing in hurry
Thanks
Anki
#dispute #loophole #network #paypal #problem #share #views
  • Profile picture of the author Mr. Ken Russell
    If it's a charge back there's absolutely nothing you can do. You can try calling PayPal and explaining your situation. They will ask questions like:

    1) What type of service was it?

    etc..

    Also mention on how it was a digital product, PayPal doesn't provide buyer protection for digital products/services.

    Although with a unauthorized transaction - credit card charge back, you have little to no chance of ever getting the payment. The best thing I'd try to do is try to try and contact the buyer directly and offer him a proposal or threaten his website.
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  • Profile picture of the author NddS777
    Originally Posted by Wisden Writers View Post

    Hello all,

    A client ordered my Services by purchasing from my website ( Shopping Cart). Paid via Paypal and I was suppose to submit the report in 45 days time.

    We started it and work is almost done.

    Today we got 1 mail from Paypal that client filed chargeback saying He did not made that transaction.

    Here is the Paypal mail text


    Now we have almost finished his work, the deadline is not over yet, still he filed charge back.

    I discussed with some of my friends and all said in this case Paypal always return money to buyer.

    Now isnt this a big problem for us? without any fault and even after doing all work paypal will refund the money to buyer.

    Is it a loophole in Paypal system as many said Paypal will only give decision in the favor or buyer.

    I responded Paypal with the Screenshot of buyers email ( Order Submission Form) and I also have details of my shopping cart by which we received order.

    Did anyone face similar problem? What should I do in this case...

    Hope I will get some genuine advice here.
    Sorry if you find typo errors, I am frustrated and typing in hurry
    Thanks
    Anki
    Hmm, I recently experienced the exact same thing, and have noticed that a few people have also been stiffed this way.

    I've been waiting for about 4 weeks now; this is my most recent response from Paypal -- you'll probably receive it as well...

    "Using the information you sent us, we are disputing the buyer's request to
    reverse the payment.

    The buyer's card company has reversed the charges for this payment. The

    funds have been removed from your account at this time. If the card company
    decides the case in your favor, the funds will be available in your PayPal
    account.

    The credit card company has charged
    PayPal a settlement fee for this
    chargeback. According to the terms of the PayPal User Agreement, we debited
    your PayPal account to cover this fee.


    ------------------------------
    -----
    Transaction Details
    ------------------------------
    -----


    Buyer's name:

    Buyer's email:
    Transaction ID:

    Transaction date: 25 Nov 2011

    Transaction amount: D
    Case #:
    Your transaction ID:


    ------------------------------
    -----
    What to Do Next
    ------------------------------
    -----

    To learn more about how to respond to a reversed payment, visit the

    Resolution Center and check out our tutorials.

    If you want to send over additional information, please provide it as soon

    as possible. Just log in to your PayPal account, go to the Resolution
    Center, and click "Details" next to this case. For faster processing,
    choose "Upload files."

    If your
    PayPal account balance is negative because of this payment
    reversal, please reimburse us by adding funds to your account or by sending
    a check to the following address:

    PayPal

    Attn: Accounting Department
    P.O. Box 45950
    Omaha, NE 68145-0950
    United States
    ------------------------------
    -----
    Due Dates
    ------------------------------
    -----

    Keep in mind that the timeframe and outcome are determined by the credit

    card company, not PayPal. It may take up to 75 days for the card company to
    reach a final decision.

    You're responsible for the amount of the reversed payment until the card

    company reaches a decision. If your PayPal balance is negative because of
    this, please add funds to your account as soon as possible.


    ------------------------------
    -----
    Other details:
    ------------------------------
    -----

    Reason for reversal


    This transaction is not marked as eligible for Seller Protection.



    Questions? Go to your
    PayPal account and click "Help" the top right corner
    of any page.

    Thanks,


    PayPal
    "
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
    He ordered Contextual Link Building Service from my website Contextual Link Building Service-One ( Paid Via Shopping Cart )

    What Kind of product is this? It does not require any physical delivery.

    I know in case of CC charge Back PP always refund money to buyers thats why I am worried as we already completed almost all work.

    Any advice?
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Wisden Writers View Post


      I know in case of CC charge Back PP always refund money to buyers thats why I am worried as we already completed almost all work.

      Any advice?
      This isn't true. It is a myth that paypal always refunds money to buyers. Since you were offering an intangible item(service) you aren't eligible for seller protection. The plus side of things is that if you can prove communication from the client, or anything similar, then chances are you can win the chargeback. The money, however, will not be returned to your account for about 90 days if you win. The reason that is, is because paypal is not a merchant account, they have a different merchant account. What happens is, when you dispute the chargeback, the bank will typically send the money back unless it disputes a second time against the chargeback.

      Depending on the type of card, and the bank, your odds of winning will vary.

      If you never had communication from the buyer, then you're out of luck most likely.
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  • Profile picture of the author NddS777
    Just for interest's sake, what was the buyers name?
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
    Hey NDDS777, Your sale took place on same day. Buyer name start with PH, I think its unethical to reveal anyone's name on public forum until I receive confirmation from buyer.

    Can you tell me is this the same person, I mean your buyer name also start with PH?
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    • Profile picture of the author NddS777
      Originally Posted by Wisden Writers View Post

      Hey NDDS777, Your sale took place on same day. Buyer name start with PH, I think its unethical to reveal anyone's name on public forum until I receive confirmation from buyer.

      Can you tell me is this the same person, I mean your buyer name also start with PH?
      Hmm, okay, nope, seems its a different name/buyer. Was just wondering.

      But I'm looking into this.

      I'm gonna PM you shortly, just keep a look out.
      Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Wisden Writers View Post

      My Account is Business Account.. Is merchant account is something else?
      I've only won one of those when the buyer said they did not authorize the charge and I didn't actively try to win it. I was resigned to the fact that Paypal reverses those and for some reason, Paypal said there was no evidence that the purchase was unauthorized.

      Google Merchant Account if you're considering going with a merchant account. There are lots of them.
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      • Profile picture of the author warriorkay
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I've only won one of those when the buyer said they did not authorize the charge and I didn't actively try to win it. I was resigned to the fact that Paypal reverses those and for some reason, Paypal said there was no evidence that the purchase was unauthorized.

        Google Merchant Account if you're considering going with a merchant account. There are lots of them.
        You are right... winning such cases is rare but there are some
        instances where you do win. I think in such instances paypal
        discovers something else that shows the buyer is lying or fraudulent
        and so decides in the seller's favor. I have also had some of these
        rare wins, without even actively trying to win,


        Kingsley

        .
        Signature
        Kingged.com Coaching and Partnership Program
        Is The ONLY Coaching Program That Does 99% Of The Work
        TO MAKE MONEY FOR STUDENTS FROM 1ST DAY
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Did they file a charge back or dispute the charge?

    Both have a tad of hope...

    If charge back, PP will submit the information you provided but the buyers credit card w/ make the final decision. They normally always side with their client. Especially for nontangible items.

    If it's a PayPal dispute, you should show PayPal the IP address of the order and remind them to check it against the IP they buyer normally shows when logging in. Let them know it will more than likely be from the same ISP and geo location. I've done this before and have won.

    Garrie
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    Screw You, NameCheap!
    $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:

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  • Profile picture of the author Adam Martinez
    I have had similar problems in the past. When I gave paypal all the information and proof they needed they ended the dispute in my favor (the seller)
    So paypal does not always decide in the favor of they buyer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      Did they file a charge back or dispute the charge?

      Both have a tad of hope...

      If charge back, PP will submit the information you provided but the buyers credit card w/ make the final decision. They normally always side with their client. Especially for nontangible items.

      If it's a PayPal dispute, you should show PayPal the IP address of the order and remind them to check it against the IP they buyer normally shows when logging in. Let them know it will more than likely be from the same ISP and geo location. I've done this before and have won.

      Garrie
      He Filed Charge back not dispute.

      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I've only won one of those when the buyer said they did not authorize the charge and I didn't actively try to win it. I was resigned to the fact that Paypal reverses those and for some reason, Paypal said there was no evidence that the purchase was unauthorized.

      Google Merchant Account if you're considering going with a merchant account. There are lots of them.
      I just informed Paypal with buyer's order details, nothing more I can do here. I will wait for Paypal. I think I lost the money though it was just $600 but still its a big loophole and How can we survive if buyers keep placing chargeback request.

      Originally Posted by Adam Martinez View Post

      I have had similar problems in the past. When I gave paypal all the information and proof they needed they ended the dispute in my favor (the seller)
      So paypal does not always decide in the favor of they buyer.
      I am hoping for the best, hope PP will do the same with me..
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  • Profile picture of the author learnrope
    Dons't the buyer need a password to use Paypal like a bank ATM card? How can they dispute something they log into and buy via a password?
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    • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
      Yes, it always need pasw, don't know why PP behaves this way...

      No response from buyer means he surely want to scam money.

      Originally Posted by learnrope View Post

      Dons't the buyer need a password to use Paypal like a bank ATM card? How can they dispute something they log into and buy via a password?
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      • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
        A client ordered my Services by purchasing from my website ( Shopping Cart). Paid via Paypal and I was suppose to submit the report in 45 days time.

        We started it and work is almost done.
        Did you have email correspondence between you and the client? If not, that is important to have so there is a paper trail showing that the client really did intend to purchase the service.

        Also, if the service costs more than $1000 I always have the client sign a simple agreement about the engagement to protect myself. My merchant account provider actually recommended this after I had one unhappy customer about five years ago. I need something with a signature to show that the client agreed with my refund policy.

        Marcia Yudkin
        Signature
        Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
    Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

    Did you have email correspondence between you and the client? If not, that is important to have so there is a paper trail showing that the client really did intend to purchase the service.

    Also, if the service costs more than $1000 I always have the client sign a simple agreement about the engagement to protect myself. My merchant account provider actually recommended this after I had one unhappy customer about five years ago. I need something with a signature to show that the client agreed with my refund policy.

    Marcia Yudkin
    It was normal order, Client ordered via email, we received order form filled with his details of order.
    He must have received one Thank You and order confirmation mail. We were about to submit report in 5-10 days, work was almost done.

    Transaction was of $598 exactly not over $1000 so nothing else was needed.

    Originally Posted by Michael Milken View Post

    You might as well charge it off as a loss. Paypal doesn't protect sellers at all in the event of a chargeback. They'll tell you that they're working in your favor, but they aren't. They drop the matter as soon as the buyer's credit card company reverses the charges.

    In your case, I don't see why the buyer would do that BEFORE he gets the product. It sounds like if he were gonna rip you off, he would have done the chargeback after receiving the product or service.
    Thats what I was thinking, I have not delivered work yet, He did not even sent me any mail about order.
    I can screw his website and make it a hell place but thats unethical and I will not do it even I loose all the money.

    This seems to be serious problem , Paypal should check when client ordered, what was his IP and cookies.

    I am sure its easy for them to track all this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
    @Big Mike, Even If stolen CC used.. What's our fault here? We did not paid to our account. I am sure client himself ordered. He is not even bothering to reply now.
    He know it very well how to get the money back. Now I have no other option but to waste more time and remove his links.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    Yes chargebacks are constant, don't know if it would work now. I always send a physical product as well with a confirmation of receipt through the usps. This way I can show they received something, Yes digital products get charged back constantly on paypal in fact quite a few scammers out there that will buy a dig product and then file a chargeback with paypal, knowing they will get there money back and just be happy with the script they pretty much stole.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
    @Jamesvick, I can create 1 Backlink which can sandbox his site, but that's unethical and at least we will not go this way. Let it be, profit and loss is part of business but its a very serious problem. Paypal should consider this issue.
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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Wisden Writers View Post

      @Jamesvick, I can create 1 Backlink which can sandbox his site, but that's unethical and at least we will not go this way. Let it be, profit and loss is part of business but its a very serious problem.
      No you can't, lol.

      I think I lost the money though it was just $600 but still its a big loophole and How can we survive if buyers keep placing chargeback request.
      The same way every other business has survived since the creation of credit cards. Chargebacks existed long before Paypal, and are not a Paypal issue. You would still have gotten a chargeback even if you weren't using Paypal, and your money would be just as gone as it likely is now.

      Paypal should consider this issue.
      Consider what issue? This isn't a Paypal issue, it's a federal law issue.

      Even If stolen CC used.. What's our fault here?
      You don't get to keep stolen money, even if it wasn't your fault. Having said that, if he's ignoring your emails now, could be he was hoping you had built all or most of the links, and filed the chargeback to get out of paying for them. In other words, he wanted the links for free.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    This is very unfortunate. Sounds to me like maybe the buyer hired more than one to do this job and then went with whoever was cheapest or finished first, charging back on your transaction.

    Well, look at this way: You now have a nice report that you worked hard on. why not have a minisite designed and sell it on Clickbank, Rapbank, or a WSO yourself? Surely you would recover the money for your services that way.

    Better yet, sell it with a PLR license as a wSO. you can get $9.95 a pop all day long and you'd probably sell dozens of them, if not more. I'd buy one...
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  • I recently went through a similar problem with PayPal, and I'm sorry to say that PayPal did NOTHING about it. They simply washed their hands clean of the issue. It's a futile battle, or at least it was for me.

    Your best move is to let it go and move on, because chances are that you will not get anything out of this one. Focus your efforts in greener ventures.
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  • Profile picture of the author InspireGuy
    I stopped using PayPal on Flippa because of this issue, I now only use Escrow.com
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    • Profile picture of the author learnrope
      Originally Posted by InspireGuy View Post

      I stopped using PayPal on Flippa because of this issue, I now only use Escrow.com
      When selling ownership of a site,isn't this a clean sale that can be proven?

      How do you lose on this one?
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  • Profile picture of the author Brad Gosse
    If the buyer charged back after making a commitment to you to purchase he would have had to lie to his card issuer saying the charge was not valid.

    If so they have committed fraud.

    You could call the local police in his town and ask them to press charges. I have done this in rare cases and they will often pay the person a visit if you complain they are running an internet scam and have defrauded you.
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  • Profile picture of the author jpsilver
    It's a sad fact that fraud is a big problem in business and one of the things I had to do was raise my prices to cover the loss and any more eventual losses but still remain competitive.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
    I found 99% PP give decision in favor of Buyer.. We can't change our nature of business for PP ****.. Such Buyers hardly exists. Hopefully we will not face more such incidents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    This is absolutely no loophole. If a buyer charges back then they get their money back. It's how things work. PayPal can't do anything about charge backs, you'll have to contact the credit card company, in which case, they'll require an authentic signature obtained from the customer in sale, which you probably don't have.
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  • Profile picture of the author MiFortuna
    Check the WHOIS from his website, hopefully it is public and shows his name or address. if that is the case it would prove that it was the client that ordered the service for the website in his name. If you have any correspondence between you that would be good. You may want, from now on, always contact a client after an order asking a simple question. Just so you can have proof in case of disputes such as this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Toasted75
    Have you actually contacted the buyer and asked why he made the charge back??? This is the obvious first step and it's possible that he just saw the charge on his cc and didn't realise what it was and made the charge back... a quick email asking what's going on may all be what's required to resolve this - especially when you haven't even handed over the report yet.

    No need to jump straight down the throat of PP or whoever, start with the client first
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    • Profile picture of the author thecableguy
      Maybe you try contacting the credit card issuer and explaining the situation? I remember ages ago when I had a merchant account I had a chargeback reversed. I had the mail receipt as proof of delivery, but it was done immediately over the phone. Apparently it was habitual. They're the one's doing the chargeback, well the buyer is, but they can change it better than Paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Webpromotion
    This is what I have figured.

    If the buyer buys a non tangible product with FUNDS ALREADY in his paypal account
    then he can file a dispute but not a chargeback.
    Chances are that he will lose.

    If the buyer pays for the non tangible product and has no funds available BUT he has a credit card attached to the account. Paypal will charge the credit card, and the transaction becomes a credit card transaction. The buyer can go to paypal and file a dispute but he will lose. So, he files a Credit Card charge back, at that point paypal has no choice but to return the money to the buy because the credit card pulls it from paypal. At that point, the buyer always wins.

    I bought a software that was cr@p using paypal funds,.. I files a dispute but lost.
    I hired outsourced some non tangible work to someone and they did not deliver, I filed a dispute but paypal would not do anything about it. The thing was that when i ran the payment, I did not have enough funds in my paypal, so ended up pulling the money from my DEBIT card(master card). So, I filed a chargeback thru my card.
    The money was returned to me. I won the chargeback.

    Hope this info help people.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
    At all, I checked the whois data. Its whois guard protection so cant get the info.

    Obviously I tried contacting buyer but he did not responded, He surely want to get the money back...

    It was chargeback not dispute.
    How can I contact CC Company as I don't know. However buyer was from US, Have his shipping address.
    I will take this seriously And I will communicate with the buyer always even if its not required. We normally get everything from client so we don't need any communication to work on order. We deliver work in given time and thats all.

    Bdw, everyone is telling about digital signature.

    Can someone tell me more clearly Signature Thing, We can communicate with client and get the signature if its digital.
    However I don't want to panic my clients much..
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    • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
      Originally Posted by Webpromotion View Post

      This is what I have figured.

      If the buyer buys a non tangible product with FUNDS ALREADY in his paypal account
      then he can file a dispute but not a chargeback.
      Chances are that he will lose.

      If the buyer pays for the non tangible product and has no funds available BUT he has a credit card attached to the account. Paypal will charge the credit card, and the transaction becomes a credit card transaction. The buyer can go to paypal and file a dispute but he will lose. So, he files a Credit Card charge back, at that point paypal has no choice but to return the money to the buy because the credit card pulls it from paypal. At that point, the buyer always wins.
      NO! I wish you guys would stop spreading misinformation on this board about paypal. Just because you have bad experience with fighting chargebacks, doesn't mean that is the case. You dispute the chargeback... if you don't dispute the chargeback of course you lose. I have won over half the chargebacks ever issued on me. It depends on the bank card... the type of credit card, and how well you show your proof!

      Originally Posted by Wisden Writers View Post

      At all, I checked the whois data. Its whois guard protection so cant get the info.

      Obviously I tried contacting buyer but he did not responded, He surely want to get the money back...

      It was chargeback not dispute.
      How can I contact CC Company as I don't know. However buyer was from US, Have his shipping address.
      I will take this seriously And I will communicate with the buyer always even if its not required. We normally get everything from client so we don't need any communication to work on order. We deliver work in given time and thats all.

      Bdw, everyone is telling about digital signature.

      Can someone tell me more clearly Signature Thing, We can communicate with client and get the signature if its digital.
      However I don't want to panic my clients much..
      You don't contact the CC company directly. If you used paypal, you don't even know his bank, or type of card used! You need to dispute the chargeback in paypal, call them if you have questions. After 90 days you get your money back, or if they know you lose beforehand like if they do a double dispute then you will know sooner that you lost.

      The only disadvantage with paypal and chargebacks is that it isn't a typical merchant account where if you dispute the chargeback, and they dispute your dispute, you lose with paypal. Usually banks won't accept a dispute to your dispute. If they do, that is where a real merchant account will come in handy, because then it goes to a board where they typically favor the seller. Paypal doesn't do that. However, with paypal you will typically win 50% of chargebacks if you handle it properly and concisely.
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  • Profile picture of the author learnrope
    What is a digital signature?
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    • Profile picture of the author ahlexis
      I love, love, LOVE that movie "The Firm" starring Tom Cruise!

      Especially the part where the feds show up to collect files with a hand truck and all he has left behind is a single folder.

      How is this relevant?

      Brad Gosse is onto something. If they have told the credit card issuer that they did not order and they have in fact ordered and you can prove it, then it's fraud. If it's done via the US Mail then it's mail fraud.

      In that movie "The Firm", the penalty for committing federal mail fraud is $10,000 and/or 5 years in prison . . . PER INCIDENT. The fraud committed in the movie was a simple over-billing by attorneys. Every single lawyer at the firm had done it, and the minute they put a stamp on the envelope that went out to the client being overcharged the crime became mail fraud.

      OK. Maybe I'm being extreme here. And maybe it's different because it's not mail fraud because you did business over the internet.

      Guess what? Fraud over the internet is considered wire fraud. Same as if you convinced a bank to wire money someplace it shouldn't have gone. Because it's NOT US Mail, there's minimum 1 count federal PLUS 1 count state every time. Plus there's theft by deception. Plus . . .

      OK. I think you get the point.

      You might want to consider sending an email alerting the "customer" that you take all fraud seriously and turn over all results to the police department, state attorney general's office of the person committing the fraud, along with the IRS and the FBI. Will they care?

      Maybe, maybe not.

      But I guarantee you an IRS Examiner with the eagle eye of a proctologist is the last thing someone needs who is cheating someone over the net. Because if they are committing fraud with you, chances are you're not their only crime victim.

      I once knew a guy who was unaware that his sister was being beaten by an abuser. She put up with it because she had 5 kids, none of them belonging to this dude, thinking she couldn't do any better. (And it's a good thing the guy I knew never found out until after the rest of this story played out!) But the thing is, this woman told her stupid abuser that if he hit her one more time she was going to call the police. I call him stupid because he didn't listen.

      And she called the police.

      And when they got there, they took one look around and took him off to jail.

      But not for beating this woman. No, they took a look around in the back room and found 15 computers and various other computer parts and printers and such, all in brand new condition in factory-sealed boxes.

      "Hey, you got invoices or receipts for these things?" the cops asked before they hooked him up with his brand new matching set of bracelets. It turns out the guy had been part of a crime ring and all that brand new equipment was stolen . . .

      He got way more time for the computer theft than he ever would have gotten for the crime the cops were called out for!

      And so it just might be with your situation; you may call the cops, they show up, and discover a major crime ring.

      You never know till you call.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ti
    I can't believe nobody has mentioned 2 solutions here:

    1) File a civil lawsuit as a small claim. Assert your rights to collect provided you have evidence that the transaction was authorized. These things are actually a lot easier to win than you would imagine. Plus, depending on state, you can recover all sorts of legal and administrative fees.

    2) Sell the claim to debt to a collector. Many collectors will charge you between 70-95% of the claim amount. So if the claim is $700, you simply would provide all your evidence to the collector, along with the contact, and essentially sell the debt. The collector pays you say $100 and then accepts responsibility to collect the debt. Whether or not they collect the debt doesn't matter at all as they bought the debt from you for a discount.

    #1 takes more effort, accepts a certain amount of gamble, but can result in returning the full amount in dispute + administrative fees, which can often be excessively high depending on your state.

    #2 takes little to no effort and offers you a small amount of $ which can often be better than nothing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
      Your options are open If I was also from US, which is not in this case, I am from India so its not possible for me to take legal action against buyer sitting somewhere in USA even though I have his Address ( Postal Address ).

      Originally Posted by Ti View Post

      I can't believe nobody has mentioned 2 solutions here:

      1) File a civil lawsuit as a small claim. Assert your rights to collect provided you have evidence that the transaction was authorized. These things are actually a lot easier to win than you would imagine. Plus, depending on state, you can recover all sorts of legal and administrative fees.

      2) Sell the claim to debt to a collector. Many collectors will charge you between 70-95% of the claim amount. So if the claim is $700, you simply would provide all your evidence to the collector, along with the contact, and essentially sell the debt. The collector pays you say $100 and then accepts responsibility to collect the debt. Whether or not they collect the debt doesn't matter at all as they bought the debt from you for a discount.

      #1 takes more effort, accepts a certain amount of gamble, but can result in returning the full amount in dispute + administrative fees, which can often be excessively high depending on your state.

      #2 takes little to no effort and offers you a small amount of $ which can often be better than nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
    Paypal Reversed the Payment Also Charged About $50 Fee what the Hell is this now..

    Can I do anything else? Now its not only $600, $650 loss, $50 is the charge for settlement. Can I do something here?

    Using the information you sent us, we are disputing the buyer's request to
    reverse the payment.

    The buyer's card company has reversed the charges for this payment. The
    funds have been removed from your account at this time. If the card company
    decides the case in your favour, the funds will be available in your PayPal
    account.

    The credit card company has charged PayPal a settlement fee for this
    chargeback. According to the terms of the PayPal User Agreement, we debited
    your PayPal account to cover this fee.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    Paypal's main goal, it seems, is to protectthe buyer at all costs. Funny strategy since the whole interface is primarily to collect payment for sellers.

    If you were to look at it through Paypal's eyes, however, you'd probably see that if folks weren't copmfortable paying through Paypal in the first place, it wouldn't be of much use to sellers.

    What happpened to you stinks, and I hope you don't get discouraged and give up because of it.

    At any rate, you have a nice original report and that has a lot of value. My advice, create a whole product with minisite and sell it with PLR as a WSO. You'll recoup your losses and make some profit me thinks!
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  • Profile picture of the author G56Ace
    You can't really do anything. I run a pretty large Social Media Marketing business, and we get hit by Chargebacks at least once or twice a month. In some cases, it's really just that some smart ass stole the credit card information, but in other cases, I know for a fact that the buyer did purchase my services authentically.

    Regardless, a Charge back is initiated through the Credit Card Company, so not only do you need to convince Paypal that the order was legit, but PayPal has to convince the Credit Card Company as well. Physical products are much easier to dispute because you have real third-party proof (Shipping Information, Tracking number, etc.), but with Virtual products or Services, it's your word against the buyer. Lets just say, if a Chargeback is initiated, just let it go. You won't win.

    As for the extra $50 (which is a little steep, because they charge me $20), it's just something Paypal charges you for their time in dealing with the issue. It really sucks, but that's PayPal. You can always use a different payment gateway if you don't like it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wisden Writers
      I can see only $10 charge in the transaction log but about I initiated the withdraw and when i see my PP balance it was $49.xx reduction from my balance.
      Don't know How..
      Any chance CC company don't find the transaction fraud?
      Can we contact CC company as well?


      Originally Posted by G56Ace View Post

      You can't really do anything. I run a pretty large Social Media Marketing business, and we get hit by Chargebacks at least once or twice a month. In some cases, it's really just that some smart ass stole the credit card information, but in other cases, I know for a fact that the buyer did purchase my services authentically.

      Regardless, a Charge back is initiated through the Credit Card Company, so not only do you need to convince Paypal that the order was legit, but PayPal has to convince the Credit Card Company as well. Physical products are much easier to dispute because you have real third-party proof (Shipping Information, Tracking number, etc.), but with Virtual products or Services, it's your word against the buyer. Lets just say, if a Chargeback is initiated, just let it go. You won't win.

      As for the extra $50 (which is a little steep, because they charge me $20), it's just something Paypal charges you for their time in dealing with the issue. It really sucks, but that's PayPal. You can always use a different payment gateway if you don't like it.
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  • Profile picture of the author gacott
    Charge backs is probably the worst part about this business. We have been able to win a few of them based on using membership sites and using the access logs as proof of delivery and receipt.

    I have actually been thinking of building a service that is aimed at helping digital sales people decrease charge backs.

    Garret
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    Short URL and QR Code Marketing like you have never see before. Scrimp takes it to a whole new level!

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