Freelancers out there

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Update: I am so disappointed. This is more of a sad disappointment rather than an angry disappointment. If you read below, i mentioned how 1 of my freelancer didnt reply me for 5 days, that dispute was anger, this most recent one is sadness. One of those low days.
After that guy who went missing for 5 days, i cancel project that i awarded to him and while disputing for refund i did search and hire another guy on freelancer.com.
This time i did not give any upfront, i escrow 50% as milestone. But b4 that we spoke for over a week, discussing project specs, knowing each other and setting common expectations and deadlines, he even told me step by step how he will do the function on my site. Finally all set to go, i escrowed and he started.

Then come deadline, he request to push deadline, i granted. Day before deadline i visited my site and it was only 1/4 done. I checked with him to see if everything was alright and if he still could make it in time, he said "dont worry sir" etc.
Today, he told me "sorry sir, we are not able to do it, it is too complex."
Then he canceled milestone and escrow funds went back to me, but sadly freelancer.com charge $7.50 for each project that is awarded whether failed or success, it is non refundable.
Now i have to start the whole process again. searching, talking, interviewing, knowing the freelancer, explaining, expectations, deadlines. etc.
He told me i should get a professional web-scrapper to do and it should be easy.
But i posted a web scrapping job title, and he bid, and when discussing he told me he can do, and even all the steps, then later claim its too complicated to do on joomla, he wanted to do on joomla, i had to pay someone else on fiverr [multiple gigs of cos] to change my whole site to joomla template just for him to do that feature, because he say he professional in joomla, now that i spent money to change the whole site to joomla, he say very complex to do this feature on joomla.

oh and by the way, FYI i paid him above average bid. This is for a scrapping feature, and i offered $300. [thats for those who insist that price is always directly link to quality]

This is when freelancers make me go mad. whether its sad mad, or angry mad.
But i have to say, this guy is better in terms of client relation, thats why im not angry, just sadly disappointed. and thats why i say it makes alot of difference with good CS or client relation cos no-one and no company is perfect in their goods or services, but with good CS it makes the difference. period.



Having outsourced quite alot of stuff, met lots of people, hired and paid many, got scammed by quite a few... and this is what i have to say..

To freelancers: Freelancers out there, if you want to be respected as a professional please be professional.

i read an article recently, Many times freelancing is not given the due respect as a profession, when someone ask you what do you do, u say freelance, u dont really get the respect, freelancing is like you dont have a job, unemployed. Going from one place to another, from odd jobs/projects here and there. No stready flow of income, it depends on whether u have projects coming your way.

But freelancing is also a profession, many people live day to day by it, many professionals quit their corporate day jobs and freelance. So what is the main difference between them and the rest of the wanna-be who just want a fast quick buck? [this is in general, not all corporate people are good, and not all freelancers are bad]

Professionalism.
This comes with communication, responsibility, and skill.
Of cos needless to say without the skill, you cant do the job.

Communication, you have to tell and update or inform your employer for that project every little detail unless of cos he doesnt want to be bothered and entrust you with the whole thing.

I have had people not communicating with me. After i send them the upfront or escrow they just disappear for 2 days, then later on teh 3rd day they reply me and say they started work already.
[how would i know u just started and tell me now u started 2 days ago]

Responsibility - for one, if im the freelancer, i cant go to bed without fulfilling this part, i feel that once i am entrusted with a project and while its on going its an open project, therefore i must remain contactable at all times, for online contacts it means at least within 24hours because of time zones.

and if i have problems committing to that, i would inform the employer in email 1st. AND IN DETAILS. and i will follow up until it is clarified then i will whole heartedly leave, unless of cos its emergency like i have to shoot an email and go for 2 days or something.

Its like recently a freelancer told me his family problem then he no mood to do work, ask me to give him 2-3 days. he shot me that email and went of for 5 days un-contactable. i asked him what exactly the 2-3 days means, after 3 days he will continue to work or give him 3 days and he will finish the work, because he already passed the deadline. but he just left and for 5 days, which exceeded his extra time he requested from me.

And just today, one of my freelancer just replied me today when i asked him something 2 days ago, since 2 days until now i see him online everytime which is good, but i give him time to reply me, only today when i shoot him a chat msg then he replied.


Sometimes its hard to respect freelancers if they dont deserve it in the 1st place.

But i must say that i have encounted good ones along the way. Really good ones, that if i ever meet them face to face, i will give them a pat on the back. And maybe some tips. =)
#freelancers
  • Profile picture of the author pandadoodle
    I've been freelancing for over 11 years and I don't want to be tarnished with the same brush.

    The problem is that people who tend to pick and blame "freelancers" are the one who are not willing to pay good money start with, will head on over to freelancer or elance to name a few expend the moon for $100 then run off and complain.

    You get what you paid for.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
    You are so, so right - freelancers make me so mad.

    I sacked two writers not very long ago and the problem with them was not the quality of the work but the fact that they would not communicate with me at all and it drove me crazy.

    Then you can guarantee that they would both hand in a big project together at the same time and I would then have to drop everything to check their work.

    I just wish I could find more reliable writers and graphic designers. I could probably find 1000 good quality seo workers but the same just cant be said for writers.

    I wouldn't mind but I can offer them a lot of regular work and I have never had a writer leave me unless I have ended the work with them so I must be okay to work with. I don't stand over the shoulders of my workers I just want to know that they can do the work, understand it and when they can have it back to me.

    I am looking forward to hearing who else has had similar problems.
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by pandadoodle View Post

      I've been freelancing for over 11 years and I don't want to be tarnished with the same brush.

      The problem is that people who tend to pick and blame "freelancers" are the one who are not willing to pay good money start with, will head on over to freelancer or elance to name a few expend the moon for $100 then run off and complain.

      You get what you paid for.
      i do not disagree with you, in fact to a certain extend i do agree.
      in my other post regarding fiverr, i did comment that "you get what u pay for" regarding fiverr. because i just cant see how paying someone $5 would be a good thing if the job is big.

      having said that i myself have had some good gigs done on fiverr.
      and there are many people supporting fiverr.

      so here are my replies to you.

      1. dont worry, im not trying to bunch you with the rest. i did say not all freelancers are like that. And its a fact that people do not really respect freelancing as a job, it was written in my daily news article. Im just stating why it might be so. And so this thread is just to shout out to freelancers, more on a "pls take note" issue, im not by any means saying all freelancers are bad.

      2. its not price issue, again you cant generalize cheap stuff, fiverr have many people doing things for $5, great stuff. and also not expansive things means good quality. it doesnt simply mean that.

      i have experience both end where i paid for cheap service and had good experience and paid high budget for bad service.

      so it really isnt the price here. its the person, the freelancer.
      so dont take it personal and jump the gun to defend yourself. =)
      because im not attacking you. lol. im just saying a note to all freelancers.
      its good if you are not in the same category.

      cheers.

      Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

      You are so, so right - freelancers make me so mad.

      I sacked two writers not very long ago and the problem with them was not the quality of the work but the fact that they would not communicate with me at all and it drove me crazy.

      Then you can guarantee that they would both hand in a big project together at the same time and I would then have to drop everything to check their work.

      I just wish I could find more reliable writers and graphic designers. I could probably find 1000 good quality seo workers but the same just cant be said for writers.

      I wouldn't mind but I can offer them a lot of regular work and I have never had a writer leave me unless I have ended the work with them so I must be okay to work with. I don't stand over the shoulders of my workers I just want to know that they can do the work, understand it and when they can have it back to me.

      I am looking forward to hearing who else has had similar problems.
      i feel you too mate..
      it can be really frustrating.

      i spent hours looking through my chat history with one guy i had working with me for web development, just to see whether i was expecting too much. i started looking at all the dates and time he reply me. he goes missing for 2-3 days in between emails and even 5 days straight once. for that guy i already decided to dispute for a refund. simply wasting my time and money.
      i spent 3 hours today just do all the paper work for evidence, printing out my emails and everything just to file a dispute through my bank.
      im gonna make sure he pays, at the same time it just makes me to mad that i have to spend all this extra time and effort to do all this just to get my money back and start from "0" again, because u have to find another guy, talk to him, share project specs, then he starts work. everything... from interview to completion its gonna take some time.

      and worst is that im rushing this.

      he is a nice guy, knowledgable, good skills, we hit off well before the project, but for some reason he just cant seem to reply my emails on time. 24 hours max is my waiting time, any longer its irresponsible to have an open project and not be contactable by employer.
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      • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
        Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post


        i feel you too mate..
        it can be really frustrating.

        i spent hours looking through my chat history with one guy i had working with me for web development, just to see whether i was expecting too much. i started looking at all the dates and time he reply me. he goes missing for 2-3 days in between emails and even 5 days straight once. for that guy i already decided to dispute for a refund. simply wasting my time and money.
        i spent 3 hours today just do all the paper work for evidence, printing out my emails and everything just to file a dispute through my bank.
        im gonna make sure he pays, at the same time it just makes me to mad that i have to spend all this extra time and effort to do all this just to get my money back and start from "0" again, because u have to find another guy, talk to him, share project specs, then he starts work. everything... from interview to completion its gonna take some time.

        and worst is that im rushing this.

        he is a nice guy, knowledgable, good skills, we hit off well before the project, but for some reason he just cant seem to reply my emails on time. 24 hours max is my waiting time, any longer its irresponsible to have an open project and not be contactable by employer.
        Well I always find that there are plenty of good quality workers but they just disappear.

        Though what I do now is keep a copy of the word document I sent them with the work I want them to do and call it:

        Workers name date issued.

        Then I can keep a record of how long it has taken them.

        I have two new ones that I hired on here over the last few weeks and both have gone awol!!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
      Originally Posted by cashp0wer View Post

      You are so, so right - freelancers make me so mad.

      I sacked two writers not very long ago and the problem with them was not the quality of the work but the fact that they would not communicate with me at all and it drove me crazy.

      Then you can guarantee that they would both hand in a big project together at the same time and I would then have to drop everything to check their work.

      I just wish I could find more reliable writers and graphic designers. I could probably find 1000 good quality seo workers but the same just cant be said for writers.

      I wouldn't mind but I can offer them a lot of regular work and I have never had a writer leave me unless I have ended the work with them so I must be okay to work with. I don't stand over the shoulders of my workers I just want to know that they can do the work, understand it and when they can have it back to me.

      I am looking forward to hearing who else has had similar problems.
      I am sorry to hear you have had such difficulties with writers, but we are not all like that. There are plenty of good, competent, responsible and professional writers around.

      Of course, you get what you pay for, and I wonder if that might be where the problem lies.

      John.
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      • Profile picture of the author cashp0wer
        Originally Posted by John Coutts View Post

        I am sorry to hear you have had such difficulties with writers, but we are not all like that. There are plenty of good, competent, responsible and professional writers around.

        Of course, you get what you pay for, and I wonder if that might be where the problem lies.

        John.
        Hi John.

        I know there are some good ones out there - I have about five full timers that came from the wf and are very good. But I have another 5 that frustrate the hell out of me with their poor time keeping and lack of communication.

        I personally believe it is the luck of the draw which one you end up with.

        I also agree that you can get what you pay for that is why whenever I see someone advertising their services on here for $1 per 100 words I never even bother viewing the thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author pandadoodle
    Most freelancers I know who are in the same price bracket and higher than me don't tend to flake on clients as we have spent time building up our reputations so unless there was something major involved like a death in the family that would be one of the few reasons why contact might be slack.

    Id also advice not passing over $700 + to anyone whos work looks like they tend to charge $100.. money madness rushes in and before you know it they spent the money and have no interest doing the work.

    I'm not going to pimp my services, but if you or anyone else is looking to for a freelancer in the future and want some advice before hand (my area of expertise is design) and you want to check out what is being said to you is true and so on then my inbox is always open

    Good Luck in the future.
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by pandadoodle View Post

      Most freelancers I know who are in the same price bracket and higher than me don't tend to flake on clients as we have spent time building up our reputations so unless there was something major involved like a death in the family that would be one of the few reasons why contact might be slack.

      Id also advice not passing over $700 + to anyone whos work looks like they tend to charge $100.. money madness rushes in and before you know it they spent the money and have no interest doing the work.

      I'm not going to pimp my services, but if you or anyone else is looking to for a freelancer in the future and want some advice before hand (my area of expertise is design) and you want to check out what is being said to you is true and so on then my inbox is always open

      Good Luck in the future.
      hey sure thing man.
      great to know you.


      oh regarding the price factor again, its very hard to say for sure what is gonna happen.
      i would say it depends. if i hire a guy from US and he charge $700 for something while another guy in india charges $100 or $200 i would say its still a good catch if you go for the india guy, because i have done that b4, and it worked out well, its because their currency is weaker, so much weaker that to them, $100 is a month wage. to the US guy $700 is not even a months wage.

      that is the difference. so its quite hard to guage by price who is going to be good and bad. haha
      and reputation is quite hard to figure out especially so many fake reviews.

      unless is someone u know or someone whom u know reviewed someone else. as long as someone u knew is in the picture then is good.

      if everyone in the picture is unknown then u will nv know the truth until you work with him.
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  • Profile picture of the author pandadoodle
    if you hire most of your freelancers from india then that's half your problem there
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  • Profile picture of the author adammaxum
    You'll find communication problems with new writers, foreign writers = INDIA, and the occasional dead beat.

    I agree with everything you stated, and thanks for sharing. I've experienced it for myself while hiring, and it can drive anyone crazy. Like pandadoodle says, you typically get what you pay for. Also, never hire a freelancer without some experience/feedback to avoid potential issues from arising in the future.
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Burton
      Originally Posted by princecapri View Post

      Boy oh boy! Clearly no love lost here!

      The OP is based on the assumption that most (not all) freelancers fall in the same bracket. Fortunately, for freelancers like myself, this is not the case. (Its the same as saying that all Internet marketers are selfish people who want to earn money at the cost of other people....)

      You more often than not get what you pay for. You can pay $2 for a 500 word article that might be returned in a week. The article will have a lot of mistakes, will be spun version of something on ezine and the author will not offer any correction.

      On the other hand, you can pay $20 for a 500 word article, get constant communication and update (if its a big project) and get all the work done well within a set time-frame.

      As a freelance writer I often get small work from one client. I'd be honest - I'd rather take up 5 big clients than 50 smaller ones. Why? Because there is so much admin behind the scenes. Client that require one or two articles don't really want to pay much either! So really, there are 2 sides to a coin.

      I resonate John Coutts sentiments here. But Newbieee, I hope you have better experience with freelancers from hereon. As a remedy, I'd suggest talking to your freelancer on Skype and judging his personality - THAT is the most important factor!

      Good luck.
      The OP didn't say all freelancers are like this. He pointed out specific examples of problems he's had, and made the point (perhaps not in the nicest way, perhaps not expressed perfectly), that if a freelancer wants to work as a freelancer and be treated with respect for their profession, they need to demonstrate professionalism.

      Many freelancers do. But there are the freelancers who don't treat it like a business, some of these are hobbyists, some are incompetent, some are just inconsiderate. Among these they may b=produce fantastic work, but if they can't work with their client as the client expects, or if they can't communicate with their client, they damage their reputation, and by calling themselves freelancers (or any other title) that stigma bleeds over onto the hard working ones who do provide quality services.

      WHEN I write for a client, which these days is rare, I give them my best in communication and in quality, regardless of the price on the work. But I've hired writers (and graphics designers, web designers and programmers) who really didn't give a rat's *** and it came across in their treatment of me as a client and in the quality of work they produced.

      I don't like to truly micromanage. I will give a good detailing of what I want, a timeframe, and agree on timelines. If something needs my input, I'm available to my freelancer (or my client) numerous times throughout the day. Since I work with people up to 13 hours offset from my local time, I'm available most hours of the day or night. (when a project is in the works, I am usually available with answers within 3 hours, which at 2AM is usually better than most clients or freelancers expect)

      Originally Posted by adammaxum View Post

      You'll find communication problems with new writers, foreign writers = INDIA, and the occasional dead beat.
      I have a problem with the statement arbitrarily including foreign writers, whether singling out India specifically. I know and work with people from The Philippines, Eastern Europe (Russian Federation, Romania, Ukraine & Estonia), Malaysia, India and Turkey (Also UK and Australia but I don't see anyone complaining about their English very often).

      About 3/4 of the ones I know and work with speak and write English better than most American born Associate's Degree holders I know. The only complication I have working with them are the time differences, but I adjust my schedule and they adjust theirs.
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  • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
    no i hire from different countries, but i think its not fair to generalize for example india.

    they have many good workers there.
    and i have encountered many good ones.
    unless of cos if more people can come and say they had problems with india freelancer then i think its a bigger pool of stats and then we can further deduce that india is not really a good place to outsource, but for now i dont think so.

    i have had US people giving me this kind of service too.
    i dont really think its the country, its the individual person.

    the only thing that comes with the country is the time zone, the language, but the attitude is the person, not the country.
    like whether he bothers to open his email and reply daily, for someone who earns from online and doesnt open his email daily, there is something wrong.

    ahhaha
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  • Profile picture of the author SamuelUherek
    I find it really difficult to find a good freelancer. When I find someone they are great for the first time or for the first part of the job and then just turn off. Like Newbieee said, I have to way 2 days for a reply to my email. On the one hand I understand it, but on the other hand I don't know what they do it.

    If I want to make money by doing freeliancing, I would try to develop exactly the skills like Professionalism, Responsibility, and Communication. I don't think there is something bad about someone making money this way. It's their live-style. Why not?

    But when I see how they treat their employers, I have to think of them like they are not honest to their work and only people who actually can't do one thing properly would go freelancing. I don't know...

    For example I have a guy on fiverr who has an amazing gig. I built such a relationship with him that now I just send him a message and he does the work for me. He doesn't even wait for me to order a gig. Unbelievable. He does a great job and I have to say, he is the best freelancer I ever met. And on freelancer . com I had a writer who was really and I mean REALLY good, and after the 3rd order the quality and the deadline was gone. I'm not going to hire her again. And she was so so good.

    I think even if you are a freelancer you should treat it like a business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by SamuelUherek View Post


      I think even if you are a freelancer you should treat it like a business.
      yes exactly, i think some freelancers think that by doing freelance they can relax, like be their own boss in the sense work at their own time own target.

      thats where they are wrong.


      i think im a reasonable employer, if they cant make it in time i will extend, all they have to do is let me know, and stay in contact, that is all im asking, is that so hard?


      my rule of thumb is this, 24 hours reply. You work online, dont tell me under normal circumstances you dont check you email once a day at least.

      pass 24 hours and you owe me an explanation. simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
      Originally Posted by SamuelUherek View Post

      I think even if you are a freelancer you should treat it like a business.
      Anyone who takes on freelance work and does not treat it like the business it is, is not a true freelancer. Such a person is simply an idiot.

      John.
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      • Profile picture of the author pandadoodle
        Originally Posted by John Coutts View Post

        Anyone who takes on freelance work and does not treat it like the business it is, is not a true freelancer. Such a person is simply an idiot.

        John.
        Agree with that 100%. If I treated my clients like fools id not have lasted 11 years.

        To the person who posted above saying they have trouble with freelancers then say they found them on fiverr, you have no argument you pay $5 for a job.

        If you want to be successful in business why not dig into your own pockets and pay the money to get the job done properly first time around!
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        • Profile picture of the author rprost
          Paying more is no guarantee that the person you hire will be any more professional, there are freelancers in all price rangers who do the same thing.


          Originally Posted by pandadoodle View Post

          Agree with that 100%. If I treated my clients like fools id not have lasted 11 years.

          To the person who posted above saying they have trouble with freelancers then say they found them on fiverr, you have no argument you pay $5 for a job.

          If you want to be successful in business why not dig into your own pockets and pay the money to get the job done properly first time around!
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          • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
            Originally Posted by pandadoodle View Post

            To the person who posted above saying they have trouble with freelancers then say they found them on fiverr, you have no argument you pay $5 for a job.

            If you want to be successful in business why not dig into your own pockets and pay the money to get the job done properly first time around!
            like i said it isnt really the amount, its the person, but to a certain extend the amount plays a part, but it depends on what work you are outsourcing. If its just a logo design or some simple work $5 at fiverr can settle it for good.

            i said i did buy a few gigs on fiverr before, and it went well.

            i tried bigger gigs like web design and bought multiple gigs to make up for the price and surprisingly that particular guy did much better and communicated with me better than someone i paid $300 on freelancer.com to design a simple site.

            Originally Posted by rprost View Post

            Paying more is no guarantee that the person you hire will be any more professional, there are freelancers in all price rangers who do the same thing.
            exactly, thats what i said. =)

            though price sometimes to a certain extend plays a part, it is not everything, nor is it a 100% indicator of a good worker.

            i believe that whatever it is, goods or services, there are always those great deals out there that you can always find that are cheaper than average and does better than average.

            its not about paying top dollar, if so i can be a scammer, buy good reviews, market myself well, and just balloon my price rates, and u think im a good person, i would love to scam people like that.

            why not, high price and people think u are good, so i can scam more money. isnt that good. lol.

            it just doesnt simply work that way, but yes, pay ur freelancers well if you are happy with them.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
            Originally Posted by rprost View Post

            Paying more is no guarantee that the person you hire will be any more professional, there are freelancers in all price rangers who do the same thing.
            Do you have personal experience in this?

            I mean, have you ever hired a content writer at say, $0.10 per word, $0.15 per word, $0.20 per word - or even $1 per word, or more?

            If you have not hired freelance writers in that price range, how can you possibly know they will not act professionally?

            I think you will find that outside of the $5-to-$15-an-article-and-no-more mentality there is actually a considerable degree of professionalism to be found. Why don't you actually put it to the test and see for yourself?

            John.
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  • Profile picture of the author WriterWahm
    You are right; many freelancers do not even have the courtesy to open their mail or to reply. It is frustrating and aggravating. But we are not all like that. We are human in that sometimes, we miss deadlines. But I will ALWAYS communicate and let my clients know what is going on. Apart from my writing, it is one area my clients really appreciate about my service.

    I think when you get a freelancer (or 2 or 3) that meet your criteria in every way, stick with them and treat them right, which includes paying them well.
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  • Profile picture of the author flipgrind
    Banned
    Got some headache from freelancers. They almost take down my business because of not completing the work that I gave them.
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  • Profile picture of the author pandadoodle
    I'm sorry but 99% of the time there is a direct relation between quality of work and the professionalism of that person.

    I mean I woun't expect a $100,000 Mercedes to preform the same as a $50 car.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nexstair
    Let me give a quick advice to all.Do these before hiring a Freelancer and you would be saved:

    1- Dont pay any upfront - if someone insist then use some third party services like Odesk and escrow money.
    2- Work on milestones: set interim payments and pay once you see work done.
    3- Check feedback score on any third party freelancing website before selecting any provider.
    4- Most important - Dont get sucked by amazing rates.Go for what make sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
      Originally Posted by Nexstair View Post

      Let me give a quick advice to all.Do these before hiring a Freelancer and you would be saved:

      1- Dont pay any upfront - if someone insist then use some third party services like Odesk and escrow money.
      2- Work on milestones: set interim payments and pay once you see work done.
      3- Check feedback score on any third party freelancing website before selecting any provider.
      4- Most important - Dont get sucked by amazing rates.Go for what make sense.
      Disagree with #1 and believe freelancers should at least get half the money up front. How are we supposed to trust you? It works both ways. This also means I don't care for point #2 either.

      #3 makes sense and I agree with it, and I also agree with #4 because the lower rates usually mean lower quality.

      Benjamin Ehinger
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    • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
      Originally Posted by Nexstair View Post

      Let me give a quick advice to all.Do these before hiring a Freelancer and you would be saved:

      1- Dont pay any upfront - if someone insist then use some third party services like Odesk and escrow money.
      2- Work on milestones: set interim payments and pay once you see work done.
      3- Check feedback score on any third party freelancing website before selecting any provider.
      4- Most important - Dont get sucked by amazing rates.Go for what make sense.
      If any client presented me with that checklist, I would tell them to go away and never come back. I only take on clients I feel I can trust, and someone with that kind of checklist is not in that category.

      You seem to be unaware that not all freelance writers are scrambling for the crumbs off the table. Some of us choose our clients carefully for we have found from experience that clients are not always ethical or honest.

      Over the years I have grown to recognize the signs of a difficult client, and in my opinion, one wielding a checklist like that is the kind of client I would rather not have.

      Yes, there should be protective measure put in place by both client and freelancer, but there comes a point where it goes too far.

      John.
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      • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
        Originally Posted by John Coutts View Post

        If any client presented me with that checklist, I would tell them to go away and never come back. I only take on clients I feel I can trust, and someone with that kind of checklist is not in that category.

        You seem to be unaware that not all freelance writers are scrambling for the crumbs off the table. Some of us choose our clients carefully for we have found from experience that clients are not always ethical or honest.

        Over the years I have grown to recognize the signs of a difficult client, and in my opinion, one wielding a checklist like that is the kind of client I would rather not have.

        Yes, there should be protective measure put in place by both client and freelancer, but there comes a point where it goes too far.

        John.
        I agree 100% and I have actually turned down a number of clients like this. If you have a quality product at a fair rate, as a freelancer, you are not struggling for work and this checklist is absurd.

        Benjamin Ehinger
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        • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
          Originally Posted by magiclouie View Post

          If you dislike freelancers, why not hire full time VA's. My guess is that you don't have enough work to give for your full time VA or you don't have the budget. Probably, you are skeptical of getting one as well.
          yea i do have full time VAs, but they are more for general stuff, like a PA in a company, PAs dont do specific specialty stuff, like if you need a professional web design and features you find a programmer.

          So my customer service and stuff are by my VAs, but not for specific stuff. I outsource to professionals for individual stuff.

          Originally Posted by pandadoodle View Post

          I'm sorry but 99% of the time there is a direct relation between quality of work and the professionalism of that person.

          I mean I woun't expect a $100,000 Mercedes to preform the same as a $50 car.
          i get your point.
          but number 1. There is no such thing as a $50 car, unless u are talking about a toy car then yes the performance is of cos different! lol.

          2. You mentioned mercedes, its a Well known brand, a quality brand, an established brand. So even if their cars are half the price, i wouldnt mind buying.
          imagine another car player in the industry just came up with a new model and put a $100,000 price tag on their normal car, does it automatically become a super car or a sports car? i doubt so.

          thus price does not always necessarily 100% equate to quality.
          well i give it to you that some cases it does, but not in all circumstances.
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  • Profile picture of the author greenleaf5
    It helps to see the samples of work, communication style, resume / profile and also draw the terms of the freelance work, such as response time to e-mail, upfront, so there are no problems to deal at a later time.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    1- Dont pay any upfront - if someone insist then use some third party services like Odesk and escrow money.
    2- Work on milestones: set interim payments and pay once you see work done.
    3- Check feedback score on any third party freelancing website before selecting any provider.
    4- Most important - Dont get sucked by amazing rates.Go for what make sense.

    I disagree with point 1. I am a freelancer and I often ask for money up front. It depends on who the client is. However, I always offer an explanation if they ask.
    I tell them that I guarantee my work. I have a website and I would NEVER do anything to tarnish my credibility which I have taken a lot of time and effort to build.

    I think the other pointers are reasonable.
    I think that some employers have unreasonable expectations but I always get everything explained before I quote any fees.
    So far, I have not had many bad clients and I hope not to have any or many in the future. I admit I am tougher now than before when it comes to getting paid.

    I have written a book on freelancing as well so if anybody wants to know more info, it's full of good advice based on my experience and that of others I know.
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  • Profile picture of the author magiclouie
    If you dislike freelancers, why not hire full time VA's. My guess is that you don't have enough work to give for your full time VA or you don't have the budget. Probably, you are skeptical of getting one as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author danlew
    I have been outsourcing some of my projects to freelancers, but some of them didn't live up to their price. We need to be more careful about picking the right person to outsource the project.
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  • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
    Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

    Having outsourced quite alot of stuff, met lots of people, hired and paid many, got scammed by quite a few... and this is what i have to say..

    To freelancers: Freelancers out there, if you want to be respected as a professional please be professional.

    i read an article recently, Many times freelancing is not given the due respect as a profession, when someone ask you what do you do, u say freelance, u dont really get the respect, freelancing is like you dont have a job, unemployed. Going from one place to another, from odd jobs/projects here and there. No stready flow of income, it depends on whether u have projects coming your way.

    But freelancing is also a profession, many people live day to day by it, many professionals quit their corporate day jobs and freelance. So what is the main difference between them and the rest of the wanna-be who just want a fast quick buck? [this is in general, not all corporate people are good, and not all freelancers are bad]

    Professionalism.
    This comes with communication, responsibility, and skill.
    Of cos needless to say without the skill, you cant do the job.

    Communication, you have to tell and update or inform your employer for that project every little detail unless of cos he doesnt want to be bothered and entrust you with the whole thing.


    I have had people not communicating with me. After i send them the upfront or escrow they just disappear for 2 days, then later on teh 3rd day they reply me and say they started work already.
    [how would i know u just started and tell me now u started 2 days ago]
    Seriously, a whole two days after you paid you didn't hear from them. You also have to understand that freelancers need a break and sometimes don't work for a couple of days.....it is often called a weekend and this is not always Saturday or Sunday. Also, we have families and emergencies that happen as well.

    When it hits 5 or 7 days with no communication and you have tried to contact them a few times, then you should start to be concerned....not after 2 days.

    Also, if I had to tell my clients every little detail of what I am doing I would never get anything done.

    Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post


    Responsibility - for one, if im the freelancer, i cant go to bed without fulfilling this part, i feel that once i am entrusted with a project and while its on going its an open project, therefore i must remain contactable at all times, for online contacts it means at least within 24hours because of time zones.

    and if i have problems committing to that, i would inform the employer in email 1st. AND IN DETAILS. and i will follow up until it is clarified then i will whole heartedly leave, unless of cos its emergency like i have to shoot an email and go for 2 days or something.

    Its like recently a freelancer told me his family problem then he no mood to do work, ask me to give him 2-3 days. he shot me that email and went of for 5 days un-contactable. i asked him what exactly the 2-3 days means, after 3 days he will continue to work or give him 3 days and he will finish the work, because he already passed the deadline. but he just left and for 5 days, which exceeded his extra time he requested from me.

    And just today, one of my freelancer just replied me today when i asked him something 2 days ago, since 2 days until now i see him online everytime which is good, but i give him time to reply me, only today when i shoot him a chat msg then he replied.


    Sometimes its hard to respect freelancers if they dont deserve it in the 1st place.

    But i must say that i have encounted good ones along the way. Really good ones, that if i ever meet them face to face, i will give them a pat on the back. And maybe some tips. =)
    It sounds like you either have a string of bad freelancers you are venting about or you simply expect way too much out of them. They are not slaves and many times they have other things going on. I would not start getting concerned so quickly.

    If my clients were bugging me and stalking my every move, I would go crazy.

    Benjamin Ehinger
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  • Profile picture of the author princecapri
    Boy oh boy! Clearly no love lost here!

    The OP is based on the assumption that most (not all) freelancers fall in the same bracket. Fortunately, for freelancers like myself, this is not the case. (Its the same as saying that all Internet marketers are selfish people who want to earn money at the cost of other people....)

    You more often than not get what you pay for. You can pay $2 for a 500 word article that might be returned in a week. The article will have a lot of mistakes, will be spun version of something on ezine and the author will not offer any correction.

    On the other hand, you can pay $20 for a 500 word article, get constant communication and update (if its a big project) and get all the work done well within a set time-frame.

    As a freelance writer I often get small work from one client. I'd be honest - I'd rather take up 5 big clients than 50 smaller ones. Why? Because there is so much admin behind the scenes. Client that require one or two articles don't really want to pay much either! So really, there are 2 sides to a coin.

    I resonate John Coutts sentiments here. But Newbieee, I hope you have better experience with freelancers from hereon. As a remedy, I'd suggest talking to your freelancer on Skype and judging his personality - THAT is the most important factor!

    Good luck.
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    • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
      Originally Posted by princecapri View Post

      Boy oh boy! Clearly no love lost here!

      The OP is based on the assumption that most (not all) freelancers fall in the same bracket. Fortunately, for freelancers like myself, this is not the case. (Its the same as saying that all Internet marketers are selfish people who want to earn money at the cost of other people....)

      You more often than not get what you pay for. You can pay $2 for a 500 word article that might be returned in a week. The article will have a lot of mistakes, will be spun version of something on ezine and the author will not offer any correction.

      On the other hand, you can pay $20 for a 500 word article, get constant communication and update (if its a big project) and get all the work done well within a set time-frame.

      As a freelance writer I often get small work from one client. I'd be honest - I'd rather take up 5 big clients than 50 smaller ones. Why? Because there is so much admin behind the scenes. Client that require one or two articles don't really want to pay much either! So really, there are 2 sides to a coin.

      I resonate John Coutts sentiments here. But Newbieee, I hope you have better experience with freelancers from hereon. As a remedy, I'd suggest talking to your freelancer on Skype and judging his personality - THAT is the most important factor!

      Good luck.
      yes, i agree there are 2 sides to the coin.

      no all freelancers are good, on the other hand not everytime the employer is right.

      its really depends on the situation.

      i dont outsource article writing, so i dont know the rates, but i paid 1 guy $300 for a website. i think he should be online to communicate with me, further more he said he will need me to be around to ask me as and when.

      so i made it a point to let him know my schedules and timings, but he didnt bother to tell me his, so now he become my boss? lol.
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      • Profile picture of the author princecapri
        Originally Posted by Newbieee View Post

        yes, i agree there are 2 sides to the coin.

        no all freelancers are good, on the other hand not everytime the employer is right.

        its really depends on the situation.

        i dont outsource article writing, so i dont know the rates, but i paid 1 guy $300 for a website. i think he should be online to communicate with me, further more he said he will need me to be around to ask me as and when.

        so i made it a point to let him know my schedules and timings, but he didnt bother to tell me his, so now he become my boss? lol.
        Haha, well, that is a problem! I hope you get that resolved (as a freelancer, I apologize for what people in my profession are doing). But you really should be more thorough before parting away with your money, and by that I mean speaking to the freelancer once or twice before hiring him/her. No two ways about it
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  • Profile picture of the author pandadoodle
    maybe half the problem is that you seem to think you "employ" a "freelancer" trying to treat a "freelancer" as an "employee" has a host of problems to start with...
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    • Profile picture of the author John Coutts
      Originally Posted by pandadoodle View Post

      maybe half the problem is that you seem to think you "employ" a "freelancer" trying to treat a "freelancer" as an "employee" has a host of problems to start with...
      The client who treats a freelancer as someone equal, and not as an employee or slave, will always get more out of the deal. After all, the freelancer provides his or her services and the client pays for the privilege of receiving them; it's an equal partnership.

      Of course there will always be bad clients and bad freelancers, but there are plenty of ways the astute person can overcome, or bypass, that.

      John.
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  • Profile picture of the author rosiebrown0
    yes i agree with you at some extent because all the freelancer are not the same.If some are careless then some are good..so before choosing the right freelancer be careful..go through their previous project and then make decision.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cre8ive
    Here are a few tips for freelancing.
    (My business started as a freelance designer, now i have a small agency in 2 countries, so I know a bit from both sides)

    1. If you go for the cheapest, expect that the freelancer underbid himself so bad to get you as client, that his motivation WILL drop, since you are not a "good client" (based on revenue. unless he can up the price on next projects)

    2. If a freelancer is having a low order intake, he can take the luxury of providing overperforming and fantastic customerservice... But if he has lots of work, how can he then spend 7 hours a day answering emails, skype calls etc? (been there.. done that) - when you wake up to more than 50 emails adressed to you personally (not spam..) it gets frustrating - And as much as i hate to say it.. succes has its price, and the more popular a freelancer gets.. the lower the quality of the customerservice will get. Even though i have been pulling 72hours straight working periods to keep up.. it still wasnt enough for some of my clients and i ended up messing up in communications and providing a service i myself would call beneath my personal standard and ethics.. And that blows, if anything does.

    3. If you want a reliable freelancer. Make sure that he actually feels he has a decent earning. Dont be a Scrooge, or he will look for other clients to shift you out with as fast as he can, rather than focus on building the best possible relationship with you. A possibility could be to hire a freelancer on part time, or openly discuss the pricings, to make sure its fair for both.

    4.th possibility could of cource be that the guy was an unprofessional wannabe, plain and simple
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  • Profile picture of the author james240
    Banned
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      How many threads are you going to start about bad freelancers?

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...reelancer.html

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ed-worked.html

      ...and now another one?
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      • Profile picture of the author Newbieee
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        How many threads are you going to start about bad freelancers?

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...reelancer.html

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ed-worked.html

        ...and now another one?
        Hi! i was waiting for someone observant enough to say that.

        1. its because new aspect of it and new cases keep popping up, thus i post new threads altogether.

        2. and if you read, they are structured differently, meaning 1 may be for asking advice, the other is more of a note to freelancer, and another 1 is for bit*hing.

        if you put altogether you will not get the same response, when u bit*h and vent your anger to tell people what happen people will talk about the issue, and some comfort, when u ask for advice people give advice, when you put a note to freelancers, people will debate on both sides [from freelancers point of view and from outsourcer point of view]

        so when i post for advice, i have to give a rough outline of what happen thus it may seem like im repeating.
        but the purpose is different.
        anyway u can see that the time that its posted far apart from each other. so there are new developments and new cases. and it makes sense, 1st i was in the devastated mood and whine/complain/vent. then the later post i was asking a specific question for advice. then now this thread is a shout out to all freelancers.

        so bumping up will just mess things up, it will be better some times to start a new thread for different purpose

        BUT thanks for following all of them. =D
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  • Profile picture of the author aaaa33030
    Scriptlance is a better site to use where you pay 100% escrow and only transfer payment to the worker when the work is completed satisfactorily. If the project is canceled then scriptlance refunds the $5 fee and no funds are lost
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