Achieving Success in 2012 with the Right Niche

12 years ago

Hi Benjamin,

I like your method, it's very clever and I see your logic.

I am sort of curious though ... for how many people here is the focus on 'finding niches' as opposed to 'finding my niche'?

I totally get that for affiliate marketing, having multiple niches and being in multiple markets is good sense, it's like having a portfolio of shares and it's insurance in case something happens to one affiliate relationship or another. Send the traffic to the different links and see the results.

But for developing and selling products and services and creating a traditional 6 figure or 7 figure information marketing business around intellectual property you create, the conventional wisdom is the opposite - the big money in that game is on focusing on one niche (or a very small number of niches) and getting to know them really well so you can know how they think and how to create value for them. For example, someone like Jeff Walker has a fairly defined niche in internet marketing - he teaches PLF for online marketers who want to make more money, and he doesn't really focus too much on other topics (although he is quite capable of speaking to other topics). For the entrepreneurs I talk to or coach, when they have problems having too many projects and niches is often at the heart of their problem and they are seeking focus, what to prioritise around.

It seems like the distinction is really around affiliate marketing in multiple niches versus developing and selling your own products and services in one niche or a very small number of niches.

Are most people here affiliate marketers? Is that why there is so much talk about niches as opposed to a niche?

Thanks
1 reply

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Benjamin Ehinger

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lauchlan

Hi Benjamin,

I like your method, it's very clever and I see your logic.

I am sort of curious though ... for how many people here is the focus on 'finding niches' as opposed to 'finding my niche'?

I totally get that for affiliate marketing, having multiple niches and being in multiple markets is good sense, it's like having a portfolio of shares and it's insurance in case something happens to one affiliate relationship or another. Send the traffic to the different links and see the results.

But for developing and selling products and services and creating a traditional 6 figure or 7 figure information marketing business around intellectual property you create, the conventional wisdom is the opposite - the big money in that game is on focusing on one niche (or a very small number of niches) and getting to know them really well so you can know how they think and how to create value for them. For example, someone like Jeff Walker has a fairly defined niche in internet marketing - he teaches PLF for online marketers who want to make more money, and he doesn't really focus too much on other topics (although he is quite capable of speaking to other topics). For the entrepreneurs I talk to or coach, when they have problems having too many projects and niches is often at the heart of their problem and they are seeking focus, what to prioritise around.

It seems like the distinction is really around affiliate marketing in multiple niches versus developing and selling your own products and services in one niche or a very small number of niches.

Are most people here affiliate marketers? Is that why there is so much talk about niches as opposed to a niche?

There is one major thing we have to look at to answer your question. Why do we know who the product creators are and those making money from one very successful niche with a product or a series of products? The simple answer, is because their name is on it and they have branded that name all over the place.

We know these people as the "so called" experts or gurus because they have branded themselves this way. This is a fine way to make money and many have been very successful at it.

However, do we know those that own 100 or so small niche sites making them a few dollars each per day or more? Do we know the person making a 6 or 7 figure income from Google AdSense websites that he or she owns? What about the person that is thrilled with $50,000 a year and does not have any desire to make more money?

Trust me these people exists and just because we don't hear about them does not mean they are not quietly going about making their money without promoting themselves, but instead promoting their websites.

I believe many have made money from creating products, but I also believe there are many that have never created a single product that are making great incomes online.

It is very important to be able to find niches if you ever want to discover your niche as well. My niche, the one I have passion for and the one that I want to be my long term success is not what I thought it would be when I started. It didn't even make sense then, but through finding many niches I found it and found my passion for it.

There is a great need for all beginners and many veteran marketers to be able to find their niche. Your questions are valid and you make a good point.

The answer to your final question about why there is so much talk about niches has to do with the number of ways a person can make money online. Here are a few of them that require the ability to find niches:

Flipping websites
Affiliate marketing
Article marketing
Click advertising websites (Google AdSense, etc.)
Blogging
Classified advertising methods
and many more.

Those wanting to make money online have to be able to locate niches they can work within one way or another. It is an important skill and there are even people that do this as a freelancing gig for others.

Benjamin Ehinger

Thanks
1 reply

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lauchlan

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger

However, do we know those that own 100 or so small niche sites making them a few dollars each per day or more? Do we know the person making a 6 or 7 figure income from Google AdSense websites that he or she owns? What about the person that is thrilled with $50,000 a year and does not have any desire to make more money?

Trust me these people exists and just because we don't hear about them does not mean they are not quietly going about making their money without promoting themselves, but instead promoting their websites.

The answer to your final question about why there is so much talk about niches has to do with the number of ways a person can make money online. Here are a few of them that require the ability to find niches:

Flipping websites
Affiliate marketing
Article marketing
Click advertising websites (Google AdSense, etc.)
Blogging
Classified advertising methods
and many more.

Those wanting to make money online have to be able to locate niches they can work within one way or another. It is an important skill and there are even people that do this as a freelancing gig for others.

Benjamin Ehinger

Hi Ben,

Great points. I get that there are both these types of businesses, but I was sort of thinking aloud about whether these two types of business are totally different.

And I certainly wasn't questioning how important it is to find niches. Whether your business needs one niche or many, I agree the ability to find a great niche is one of the central success factors for your business. And this holds true whether your business is online or offline.

I tend to think of successful bloggers as producing their own content, building their list, and selling products or services and being definitely in the 'focus on 1 niche' camp. But now that I think about it there's probably another class of bloggers who are more about the advertising and affiliate revenue and may well create multiple blogs in multiple niches.

Thanks
1 reply

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Benjamin Ehinger

12 years ago

Originally Posted by lauchlan

Hi Ben,

Great points. I get that there are both these types of businesses, but I was sort of thinking aloud about whether these two types of business are totally different.

And I certainly wasn't questioning how important it is to find niches. Whether your business needs one niche or many, I agree the ability to find a great niche is one of the central success factors for your business. And this holds true whether your business is online or offline.

I tend to think of successful bloggers as producing their own content, building their list, and selling products or services and being definitely in the 'focus on 1 niche' camp. But now that I think about it there's probably another class of bloggers who are more about the advertising and affiliate revenue and may well create multiple blogs in multiple niches.

I think it is safe to say these are two different business models with some of the same marketing methods, but implemented differently. For example, someone focusing on one niche will do what you are talking about with the original idea of a blogger and build a list to promote their product to, but why can't I do this with many niches as an affiliate marketer or even someone promoting AdSense sites?

Many don't think building a list is necessary with AdSense sites, but what if this was how you got the visitors that did not click on your ads to come back over and over, then eventually click? This is a method many may not have thought of, but it does work if implemented correctly.

Another example is the one niche person using Pay Per Click to drive traffic to their site. What if I can get traffic to my AdSense site for half the price of the average amount I make per click? Now PPC becomes a viable method for both types.

Sometimes it is the creative mind that finds the answer and I think we are dealing with two very different business models, but very similar marketing plans.

Benjamin Ehinger

Thanks

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sufalamtech

12 years ago

Thanks for your valuable post in this discussion.

Thanks
1 reply

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Benjamin Ehinger 12 years ago

Originally Posted by sufalamtech

Thanks for your valuable post in this discussion.

You are welcome....I hope it helps you and anybody else that needs help finding a niche to work in. I know with so many unemployed there are more and more trying their hand at online money making. I just want to share my knowledge as many others did in this forum when I first started.

Benjamin Ehinger
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rileyb

12 years ago

Spying on Flippa is fun

Thanks

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luckystepho

12 years ago

Thanks for sharing Benjamin- I had never thought of using Flippa to find niches but it's a great idea.

Thanks

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AndreasJacobsen

12 years ago

well, this is a ressource method I haven't heard of before... thank you for sharing

Thanks

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spen

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger

I find the competition by doing a search in Google for the keyword phrase in quotation marks. Any number under 250,000 is usually pretty easy for me to rank for.

Benjamin Ehinger

If sites at top Google have a lot of backlinks, it's PR is high, is it beat them easy?
thanks

Thanks
2 replies

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JohnMcCabe 12 years ago

First off, Benjamin, thanks for the Flippa angle. Hadn't thought of that one...

As for my own process, I tend to think in terms of markets and niches within them. For example, I don't think of "weight loss" as a niche. It's a broad market with dozens or hundreds of diverse niches within it.

I also tend to think of 'niches' as groups of people, rather than products. I wouldn't have considered "garage door openers" as a niche. The niche would have been "home owners with their own garages", which opens things up to promoting more than openers - there are storage systems, floor coatings, etc.

And since SEO isn't my main emphasis, I don't really worry much about number of searches and competition and such. I spend much more time looking for ways I can connect with people in that market. Are there active blogs which accept either outside content or advertising? Forums, the same. Ezines. Offline pubs.

Essentially, how many different ways can I put my message in front of interested people, and are there enough of them?

That last is where more traditional keyword research can help.
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Benjamin Ehinger 12 years ago

Originally Posted by spen

If sites at top Google have a lot of backlinks, it's PR is high, is it beat them easy?
thanks

It depends on those sites. If you are going up against giants like Amazon, then it can be hard, but I have seen good traffic from the lower part of the first page and have beat out some of these sites from time to time.

Backlinks matter, but not the same way they used to. High quality backlinks can make a difference compared to a number of low quality backlinks.

Benjamin Ehinger
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myob

12 years ago

Rather than chasing after niches, I have always searched broad networks or groups of people such as within associations, professions and demographics. These organizations span hundreds of highly profitable niches, and marketing to them is completely independent of any SEO considerations. But using Flippa could certainly be an additional resource to locate new product lines.

Thanks
1 reply

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celente

12 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Rather than chasing after niches, I have always searched broad networks or groups of people such as within associations, professions and demographics. These organizations span hundreds of highly profitable niches, and marketing to them is completely independent of any SEO considerations. But using Flippa could certainly be an additional resource to locate new product lines.

People are missing out on the power of flippa. I have met two amazing marketers and networked by using flippa and PM system. Great to do research on flippa too, by clicking the most active sites. That is a gold mine for sure.

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Rod Cortez

12 years ago

Benjamin,

Thanks for sharing your niche ideas usin Flippa. Very clever.

I've been at this a long time. At one point I had hundreds of URLs that I kept on an Excel spreadsheet, ranging from websites, marketplaces, library listings, etc. to generate niche / market ideas. Then I got to a point where I didn't need all that stuff. Why? Because I was over-complicating something that was actually pretty simple.

A few years ago, I obtained my most profitable niches by doing a few simple things:

1. Asking people what they were passionate / interested in.

2. Going to Google.com or Dogpile.com and typing in phrases such as:

"How do I fix....."
"How many [X] does [X] have?"
"Ways to....."
"What do [X] want...."
"What's the best......?"
"How to...."

3. Focusing on evergreen markets, meaning that they'll be around when I'm 80 years old. Instead of thinking in terms of niches at first, I would think about people's lifestyle choices and the things they can't live without and, lastly, where advertisers spend their money.

Most of the old timers here know that one of the niches I'm in is the dating niche. It's uber-ultra competitive, with new entrants coming in daily. But it's a rabid market full of repeat buyers. And none of the players own all the channels of distribution, so one can still compete and win.

I think of it this way: 50 years from now people are still going to get married. Fifty years from now.......

.....People are going to look for a mate.
.....People are going want their children to be healthy.
.....People are going to want their kids to get good grades.
.....People are going to want to lose weight.
.....People are going to want new recipes.
.....People are going to want to improve their kitchens / bathrooms / garages / etc.
.....People are going to want to cure sweaty palms.
.....Etc., etc., etc.

And there are hundreds, if not thousands, of ways to monetize them all.

RoD

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Benjamin Ehinger

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Rod Cortez

Benjamin,

Thanks for sharing your niche ideas usin Flippa. Very clever.

I've been at this a long time. At one point I had hundreds of URLs that I kept on an Excel spreadsheet, ranging from websites, marketplaces, library listings, etc. to generate niche / market ideas. Then I got to a point where I didn't need all that stuff. Why? Because I was over-complicating something that was actually pretty simple.

A few years ago, I obtained my most profitable niches by doing a few simple things:

1. Asking people what they were passionate / interested in.

2. Going to Google.com or Dogpile.com and typing in phrases such as:

"How do I fix....."
"How many [X] does [X] have?"
"Ways to....."
"What do [X] want...."
"What's the best......?"
"How to...."

3. Focusing on evergreen markets, meaning that they'll be around when I'm 80 years old. Instead of thinking in terms of niches at first, I would think about people's lifestyle choices and the things they can't live without and, lastly, where advertisers spend their money.

Most of the old timers here know that one of the niches I'm in is the dating niche. It's uber-ultra competitive, with new entrants coming in daily. But it's a rabid market full of repeat buyers. And none of the players own all the channels of distribution, so one can still compete and win.

I think of it this way: 50 years from now people are still going to get married. Fifty years from now.......

.....People are going to look for a mate.
.....People are going want their children to be healthy.
.....People are going to want their kids to get good grades.
.....People are going to want to lose weight.
.....People are going to want new recipes.
.....People are going to want to improve their kitchens / bathrooms / garages / etc.
.....People are going to want to cure sweaty palms.
.....Etc., etc., etc.

And there are hundreds, if not thousands, of ways to monetize them all.

RoD

Rod,

Thanks for the info and you just helped me transition into another one of the ways I find niches.

This is one of the easiest ways to find a niche and for some reason it never gets talked about and beginners never seem to use it.

Rod mentioned asking people what they are passionate about and evergreen niches. To go along with this idea, you can use your local library or magazine stand. Pick up a magazine and look at the advertising and headlines.

Guess what? The magazine itself fits into a niche and the advertising is targeting a niche within it. There is a reason why magazines have so much advertising and this advertising does not come cheap, but it produces results.

If you want to find a niche that you can make a profit in, pick up a magazine because it fits into a niche, and start looking at the articles and advertisements. This will tell you what people within that niche are looking for.

I agree with Rod and believe that you need to be looking at evergreen niches. The fads that come and go are temporary and will only make you money for a short amount of time, but the niches that will be around forever will make you money forever.

This is the other part of the Flippa formula that I use and because I am targeting niches that are already successful and using sites that have been sold for large sums of money, I am not the only one that believes they are good niches. The buyer is too.

Benjamin Ehinger

Thanks
1 reply

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JohnMcCabe

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger

If you want to find a niche that you can make a profit in, pick up a magazine because it fits into a niche, and start looking at the articles and advertisements. This will tell you what people within that niche are looking for.

I agree with Rod and believe that you need to be looking at evergreen niches. The fads that come and go are temporary and will only make you money for a short amount of time, but the niches that will be around forever will make you money forever.

Benjamin Ehinger

And if you want to find the niches with staying power, dig into the stacks and grab issues of that magazine going back a few years. Look for products, companies and ads who have been appearing in the magazines over time.

One magazine I use has an ad for a pretty boring fabricated metal part. The ad has a sample of the product with a pretty girl in a bikini. The interesting part for me is that the ad has been running for so long the model could easily have a granddaughter old enough to take her place in the ad...

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D37

12 years ago

Great info. Thanks for the share.

Thanks

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MattCatania

12 years ago

You've narrowed your niche choices to be in accordance with 'SEO guidelines'. This, to me, is a problem. Some of the most lucrative niches do indeed have a lot of SEO competition, but really, that's only ONE way to put yourself in front of a market.

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Osman_M

12 years ago

Thats an awesome to find niches. Never though of fillpa, everything is right there for you. Thanks a lot mate.

Thanks
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Benjamin Ehinger

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MattCatania

You've narrowed your niche choices to be in accordance with 'SEO guidelines'. This, to me, is a problem. Some of the most lucrative niches do indeed have a lot of SEO competition, but really, that's only ONE way to put yourself in front of a market.

You assume I have narrowed my niche choices....I have already given two of my ways of finding niches with this thread, but you probably didn't read down to find the other......I never said this was the only way to put yourself in front of a market and if I were going to post everything I do to find niches and get in front of markets it would take me days and many more words than the few I have written.

The narrow mind is the one that assumes I have narrowed my niche choices.

Originally Posted by Osman_M

Thats an awesome to find niches. Never though of fillpa, everything is right there for you. Thanks a lot mate.

You are welcome. Another one to add to the arsenal of tools and tricks to find ways to make money online.

Benjamin Ehinger

Thanks

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MattCatania

12 years ago

I'm sorry if I came across as if I were attacking you, that wasn't my intention at all.

Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger

Then, I do my keyword research and try to find a handful of good keywords with a decent amount of searches and low competition. This is all done with the Google keyword tool and nothing fancy. I am usually after keywords that get an exact match of at least 300 searches and have low competition.

I find the competition by doing a search in Google for the keyword phrase in quotation marks. Any number under 250,000 is usually pretty easy for me to rank for.

Many will tell you that keywords with only 300 searches a month are a waste of your time, but this is bad information. These are what are referred to as low hanging fruit and they are easy to pick.

You won't need as many backlinks, if any at all, to get the ranking you need to get a traffic from these keyword phrases. If you go after a handful of these they add up. Five keyword phrases that get 300 searches a month are just as good as one that gets 1,500 searches a month and it is easier to rank high for the lower searched keyword phrases.

This is how I get my niches and find my keyword phrases....How do you find your?

Benjamin Ehinger

... but does this not assume that you WILL be narrowing down which niches you'll go after based on the amount of competing pages - under 250,000 as you put it?

Thanks

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Peru101

12 years ago

I never thought of Flippa, but it makes sense. Another niche-finding technique to add to my arsenal.
I like to go into dmoz.org and look through their categories and narrow down from there.

While it's common to believe that you can't beat Amazon, many marketers claim that they are actually easier because they don't optimize their pages like we do.

On a more humorous note, how come when I type "define:arsenal" into Google, no dictionary results appear?

Thanks
1 reply

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Benjamin Ehinger

12 years ago

Originally Posted by MattCatania

I'm sorry if I came across as if I were attacking you, that wasn't my intention at all.

... but does this not assume that you WILL be narrowing down which niches you'll go after based on the amount of competing pages - under 250,000 as you put it?

I never said that THOSE are the only keyword phrases I go after, just made the point that they are easier to rank for. Never assume that one strategy is all a smart marketer has in his arsenal....this would be like assuming there is only one bullet in the gun.

Originally Posted by Peru101

I never thought of Flippa, but it makes sense. Another niche-finding technique to add to my arsenal.
I like to go into dmoz.org and look through their categories and narrow down from there.

While it's common to believe that you can't beat Amazon, many marketers claim that they are actually easier because they don't optimize their pages like we do.

On a more humorous note, how come when I type "define:arsenal" into Google, no dictionary results appear?

dmoz.org is another good site for research. Amazon is beatable, but it takes a longer term strategy.

"define:arsenal"

Google

I get results when I type it in and the first two include the definition and a result from dictionary.com.....your Google must be broken...lol

Benjamin Ehinger

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1 reply

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MattCatania

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger

I never said that THOSE are the only keyword phrases I go after, just made the point that they are easier to rank for. Never assume that one strategy is all a smart marketer has in his arsenal....this would be like assuming there is only one bullet in the gun.

Okay, I was a little off, thank you for clearing that up

Best of luck!

Thanks
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Logic outweighs all.

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Benjamin Ehinger 12 years ago

Originally Posted by MattCatania

Okay, I was a little off, thank you for clearing that up

Best of luck!

I knew where you were going with all of it and this is and this is why we post in here. It gives us the chance to share all of our ideas. When I first posted this, I was trying to target more of the beginner confused with where to find a niche.

Beginners usually need to see results to continue on and build confidence in what they are doing. Any results will help them move forward and with lower competition keywords they are more likely to see results faster.

That is the major reason I did not mention that I split my keyword phrases into three categories and I always go after a mix of highly competitive keywords (still need to be buying keywords, however) medium competition, and lower competition.

Balance is the key to many things in life and it also helps when attacking a new niche.

Benjamin Ehinger
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Doris8888

Banned 12 years ago

[DELETED]

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Benjamin Ehinger

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Doris8888

They're not strict in IP addresses, you can sign-up multiple times with same ip then post feedback on your other account. Bottom line is you have a better quality service that's what count for.

Either you have no idea what is being discussed or this is spam.....this has nothing to do with what this post is about.

Benjamin Ehinger

Thanks
1 reply

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bobcarlsjr 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger

Either you have no idea what is being discussed or this is spam.....this has nothing to do with what this post is about.

Benjamin Ehinger

spam.. a lot of them on WF now.. saw one another day from Jennifer7777..

seems like they are all <girl names><recurring number>
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- Benjamin Ehinger 12 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by bobcarlsjr
  
  spam.. a lot of them on WF now.. saw one another day from Jennifer7777..
  
  seems like they are all <girl names><recurring number>
  
  Yep that is one of those things they do. They try to use the girl name or picture to soften us guys up and get us to buy into them being real. I know guys that don't spam, but use that marketing tactic quite well.
  
  Benjamin Ehinger
  
  Thanks
  
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Mary Wilhite

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Benjamin Ehinger

.

Many will tell you that keywords with only 300 searches a month are a waste of your time, but this is bad information. These are what are referred to as low hanging fruit and they are easy to pick.

Benjamin Ehinger

Great insight. Fresh thinking.

Thanks
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Benjamin Ehinger 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Mary Wilhite

Great insight. Fresh thinking.

Thank you....It is true that it is a bit fresh since every guide I have seen in the past few years tells you these keyword phrases are not worth your time, but this also means that the people reading these guides are not trying to go after them.

It may take a little more work, at first, but the results are always easier to come by.

Benjamin Ehinger
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