Internet blackout in SOPA protest

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So apparently reddit is shutting itself down for 12 hours to protest SOPA and Wikipedia might do the same.

Source: Jan. 18 Internet Blackout to Protest SOPA: Reddit Says Yes | Techland | TIME.com

I don't see Google following (although they can't be happy about youtubes future). It'll be interesting to see however.
#blackout #internet #protest #sopa
  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    I've never understood the mentality that goes into protesting?

    "I'm upset with you, so I'm going to make myself suffer!"

    :confused:
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    • Profile picture of the author MonopolyMan
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      I've never understood the mentality that goes into protesting?

      "I'm upset with you, so I'm going to make myself suffer!"

      :confused:
      The fact that it's going to hurt them will highlight just how much they're against it and rather than just switching to 404's or whatever people will get a message about protesting SOPA so it will raise awareness.
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    • Profile picture of the author TheSpokesman
      Those willing to suffer have created a lot of change in this old world.

      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      I've never understood the mentality that goes into protesting?

      "I'm upset with you, so I'm going to make myself suffer!"

      :confused:
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        That "foolishness" is called your 1st Amendment right to free speech and autonomy. If you lose it, those 12 hours of sales aren't going to mean squat a few months from now. Trust me on that one.
        +1



        Originally Posted by TheSpokesman View Post

        Those willing to suffer have created a lot of change in this old world.

        Yeah but it's a lot better to make the other guy suffer. Seriously, most of the people that are standing up against this are webmasters and marketers. If they really cared, they would turn all of their sites into a call to action to stop SOPA/PIPA, then market the hell out of them until it is done.

        Because you know what? The people with billions of dollars and tons of power are not going to stop until they are done. So how on Earth could anyone possibly believe that fighting back for a whole 12 hours to raise awareness when they are already far behind their enemy is an effective strategy at all?

        "Undecided" legislatures are probably enjoying escorts and alcohol from lobbyists right now, and the only reason they are "undecided" is that they want to see how much more they can milk it for.
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    • Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      I've never understood the mentality that goes into protesting?

      "I'm upset with you, so I'm going to make myself suffer!"

      :confused:
      Look on the bright side...it beats self immolation -



      The "people" corporations have to win this - not the corporations who 'think' they are people...this bill is the modern day equivalent to the saying: "Cutting off the nose to spite the face". (an expression used to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem) or "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".

      They really have to understand people are not necessarily against their intention - just the intended method. It won't work. They have to listen to reason. How do you to get them to listen?

      I liked what Bill Moyers said the other day...
      "I have a friend in Texas, who says, I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one..."
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    • Profile picture of the author AJ Ervin
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      I've never understood the mentality that goes into protesting?

      "I'm upset with you, so I'm going to make myself suffer!"

      :confused:
      I can think of a "few" US civil rights protesters that would beg to differ... I'm no historian but I'd venture to say that those folks made quite a difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Protests to bring awareness do not work. Success requires force. It was a nice idea, but Google and Facebook? Not going to happen.

    That's almost like saying Wal-Mart will join the labor unions in a protest for worker's rights.
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Protests to bring awareness do not work. Success requires force. It was a nice idea, but Google and Facebook? Not going to happen.

      That's almost like saying Wal-Mart will join the labor unions in a protest for worker's rights.
      Actually, you MUST protest to BRING awareness first.

      Garrie
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by MonopolyMan View Post

        I don't see how you arrived at the idea of raising awareness not working. Awareness is what can lead to action and people putting pressure on the politicians.

        No I don't think Google will follow suit, it'll just be a rumor, but I don't think an act like this would be completely in vain.


        While in truth sites like Reddit could be under threat from SOPA we don't really know if it would happen. And these are not small sites closing down, it will certainly get the message to people who haven't heard about what's going on or haven't really understood it.

        It won't completely be in vain? You think it's going to stop SOPA/PIPA? Or even slow it down?




        Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

        Actually, you MUST protest to BRING awareness first.

        Garrie

        1. The protest is far too little, far too late. If anone really cared about stopping SOPA/PIPA they should have "raised awareness" a long time ago.

        2. Protesting by hurting yourself only annoys people. Protests should actually hurt the people you are targeting.



        Stopping SOPA would have required defeating this and stopping PIPA would have required defeating this, as well as organizing major boycotts against these companies. (Which includes, for example, Comcast & Time Warner, for those of you who didn't expect it.)




        ...which is something nobody is actually trying to do.
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        • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          1. The protest is far too little, far too late. If anone really cared about stopping SOPA/PIPA they should have "raised awareness" a long time ago.
          Before, it was a possible bill. You get support before its signed to try and stop it. If its done to early, the noise dies down.

          2. Protesting by hurting yourself only annoys people. Protests should actually hurt the people you are targeting.
          Guess you dont know history. Most protests hurt the people protesting and the targets in some fashion.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            You are right that the protest won't stop it on its own - but it will create awareness, it will allow people to see what it is like to be silenced. IF the awareness results in recall of the legislators who vote for it, we can get it knocked back down - but it will take action on top of the awareness.

            And whoever said that the companies that actually promoted this bill aren't being boycotted - you are right, but not many people understand that the same companies that built and sell the pirating software are the ones that orchestrated the bill in the first place. So everyone that has used that software just got tooled. Unfortunately - these idiots have just proved what a threat having no morals or scruples can be to EVERYONE.

            Writing to legislators with a loud offer to sign recall petitions if they sign and dropping off any company that pushed this bill into our government and sending them a nice clear letter telling them why they will no longer get money from your pocket is a real good start on getting the action necessary to stop this in its tracks. Either act, or just take your risks that your own site won't be the next one seized.

            I am quite aware of the fact that many corporations are playing both sides, just as antivirus companies do. That still doesn't change the fact that nobody is using boycotts to hurt them in a way they would actually care about.

            Turning off your site is just going to get people to Google a different one to waste time on. People do not care enough to actually call their legistlatures, much less "write them a letter." And it's too inconvenient to stop going to Wal-Mart or switch away from the major cable networks.

            Those few people who do act are not going to have the voice of those who have donated millions of dollars to their campaigns and causes.

            A mere "protest" isn't going to change the reality of years of lobbying and donations. Seriously, these are the same corporations that sued a 12 year old girl and and the family of a dead Vietnam vet to prove their point.

            Protesters are simply NOT going to win a Major League game with those Little League tears.





            Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

            Before, it was a possible bill. You get support before its signed to try and stop it. If its done to early, the noise dies down.

            Guess you dont know history. Most protests hurt the people protesting and the targets in some fashion.


            If it was done early, there wouldn't have been a need for noise. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" and all that.

            And umm... I might have different history books than you do, but it seems that while some do actually work, most protests and rebellions are crushed. (Of course I wasn't in history, so I can only go by what the historians tell me.)
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

              I am quite aware of the fact that many corporations are playing both sides, just as antivirus companies do. That still doesn't change the fact that nobody is using boycotts to hurt them in a way they would actually care about.

              Turning off your site is just going to get people to Google a different one to waste time on. People do not care enough to actually call their legistlatures, much less "write them a letter." And it's too inconvenient to stop going to Wal-Mart or switch away from the major cable networks.

              Those few people who do act are not going to have the voice of those who have donated millions of dollars to their campaigns and causes.

              A mere "protest" isn't going to change the reality of years of lobbying and donations. Seriously, these are the same corporations that sued a 12 year old girl and and the family of a dead Vietnam vet to prove their point.

              Protesters are simply NOT going to win a Major League game with those Little League tears.
              You're 100% right, Mike. Ya know, I've been speaking out for years on dangers in recent legislation. I've petitioned for impeachment, recalls, and a lot of things that most people just stuck their tongues out and raspberried me for. I was told I was a tinfoil nutcase paranoid. Well, a lot of eyes have been opened since then. Many too late on many issues that would have prevented situations from ever getting this far.

              I understand that. I mean who in their right mind would actually have thought that we could lose habeas corpus and posse comentatus? To lose free speech on top of that is going to be a nightmare of proportions I don't even want to think about. I can say that freely now because it's been a long time since anyone thought I was paranoid. Too much water has gone under that bridge.

              But people are still befuddled. They don't really know how to react to this stuff. And it might be the last chance we get to actually do anything online to make a statement that helps those still in a quandary figure out that they need to get involved - and fast.

              Protest on its own may or may not achieve what we need to achieve - overt public reaction. It did in the Nam era - it didn't during the bailout. But one thing we can do is wake up those who still don't get it - and we can make people angry enough to actually get their fingers out of their noses, shut off the tv and actually DO something.

              One thing we have in our favor is that corporations are willing to join this protest. Corporations have power. Can you imagine the chaos that Google blacking out for a day - and paypal will do to US commerce for that day? That's a taste of what our whole online life can be like if government takes over the Net. Some say it can't be done - but China hasn't got much of a problem with it. There is work right now creating a National Internet ID - and SOPA would make that furiously easy to implement. Do you realize that any entrepreneur on the net can, and probably will, be effected by that?

              It's gone way too far already and we might not be able to stop it. But we might. So we have to try and that means pulling out all the stops and taking every action we can take to do so. The blackout is something that is a statement by businesses and corporations - it needs to be followed, as well as preceded, by every effort anyone can make personally. Boycotting the corporations responsible is a necessary act and we can hope that anyone dealing with those corporations will walk. We can hope that every citizen who learns of SOPA will write, email, or call their legislators. We can hope that people will be standing on the lawn of the WH the day the vote is to take place. And we can hope that if the vote doesn't go in our favor that people will recall every rep that has anything to do with it passing, because that will be the only way we have left to save our skins. People either "get it" now or we ALL lose. Period. Game over - State 1, People 0.

              The fat lady is just about to start bellowing.
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                You're 100% right, Mike. Ya know, I've been speaking out for years on dangers in recent legislation. I've petitioned for impeachment, recalls, and a lot of things that most people just stuck their tongues out and raspberried me for. I was told I was a tinfoil nutcase paranoid. Well, a lot of eyes have been opened since then. Many too late on many issues that would have prevented situations from ever getting this far.

                I understand that. I mean who in their right mind would actually have thought that we could lose habeas corpus and posse comentatus? To lose free speech on top of that is going to be a nightmare of proportions I don't even want to think about. I can say that freely now because it's been a long time since anyone thought I was paranoid. Too much water has gone under that bridge.

                But people are still befuddled. They don't really know how to react to this stuff. And it might be the last chance we get to actually do anything online to make a statement that helps those still in a quandary figure out that they need to get involved - and fast.

                Protest on its own may or may not achieve what we need to achieve - overt public reaction. It did in the Nam era - it didn't during the bailout. But one thing we can do is wake up those who still don't get it - and we can make people angry enough to actually get their fingers out of their noses, shut off the tv and actually DO something.

                One thing we have in our favor is that corporations are willing to join this protest. Corporations have power. Can you imagine the chaos that Google blacking out for a day - and paypal will do to US commerce for that day? That's a taste of what our whole online life can be like if government takes over the Net. Some say it can't be done - but China hasn't got much of a problem with it. There is work right now creating a National Internet ID - and SOPA would make that furiously easy to implement. Do you realize that any entrepreneur on the net can, and probably will, be effected by that?

                It's gone way too far already and we might not be able to stop it. But we might. So we have to try and that means pulling out all the stops and taking every action we can take to do so. The blackout is something that is a statement by businesses and corporations - it needs to be followed, as well as preceded, by every effort anyone can make personally. Boycotting the corporations responsible is a necessary act and we can hope that anyone dealing with those corporations will walk. We can hope that every citizen who learns of SOPA will write, email, or call their legislators. We can hope that people will be standing on the lawn of the WH the day the vote is to take place. And we can hope that if the vote doesn't go in our favor that people will recall every rep that has anything to do with it passing, because that will be the only way we have left to save our skins. People either "get it" now or we ALL lose. Period. Game over - State 1, People 0.

                The fat lady is just about to start bellowing.

                You must be the other person out there that is saying all of this. It blows my mind that most Americans have no clue what habeas corpus and posse comentatus are, much less how vital they were to our freedoms.

                Terry Goodkind described it best. If a thief came into your house and stole the whole piece of meat from your table, you would fight him to keep it.

                But if he only came in and stole a slice, it wouldn't be worth chasing him and possibly fighting and dying. After all, it was only a little slice.

                As each generation passes, more little slices of freedom are stolen, and the following generations grow-up without them. They have no idea how important they were, and think that old people are overreacting.


                Until people are willing to really take the fight to them, it's not going to work. I appreciate that people want to do something, but Reddit turning it's site up and trying to raise awareness, that is just not going to hurt anyone but themselves. And Bill, I'm a fan, but a pop-over is even weaker.


                Every freedom on this Earth is there because at some point people took up the sword and fought and won the right to it. And it will be taken away unless it is fought for with force.


                Raising awareness is not enough. It takes organized, concentrated effort to hurt the corporations, lobbyists, and politicians where they really care-- their wallets and their sense of power.


                Markters could do this. We could protect ourselves. But if you're serious about protecting freedoms, completely shut down all of your sites until the fight is won, putting up the message. Stop your PPC campaigns for money and change them to fight it. Educate the people en masse, publish phone numbers, addresses, and emails addresses for the legistlatures. Organize massive boycotts against those companies who support them. Blast it all across every forum and blog on the web. Refuse to buy or sell anything to the supporters. Get the public to completely and continuously swamp them until their secretaries can no longer hold our anger back.


                Don't have the intestinal fortitude for that? Then let's just stop making threads about it and prepare for the changes that are coming.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicholasb
    I don't get it , wouldn't that basically just be giving them what they want
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    • Profile picture of the author MonopolyMan
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Protests to bring awareness do not work. Success requires force. It was a nice idea, but Google and Facebook? Not going to happen.

      That's almost like saying Wal-Mart will join the labor unions in a protest for worker's rights.
      I don't see how you arrived at the idea of raising awareness not working. Awareness is what can lead to action and people putting pressure on the politicians.

      No I don't think Google will follow suit, it'll just be a rumor, but I don't think an act like this would be completely in vain.

      Originally Posted by nicholasb View Post

      I don't get it , wouldn't that basically just be giving them what they want
      While in truth sites like Reddit could be under threat from SOPA we don't really know if it would happen. And these are not small sites closing down, it will certainly get the message to people who haven't heard about what's going on or haven't really understood it.
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    • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
      Originally Posted by nicholasb View Post

      I don't get it , wouldn't that basically just be giving them what they want
      The main target of the protest, is to show people, what can happen if this bill pass.

      People will take it more seriously
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  • Profile picture of the author DigitalBusker
    Isn't SOPA designed to protect big business and if some smaller business benefits at the same time then that's just a coincidence?
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    I was about to post about the blackout , you were faster than me

    Here is a list of big websites may join the black out, some of these sites:

    - AOL
    -Facebook
    - PayPal
    - eBay
    -Esty
    - .. and more

    Technolog - Will Google, Facebook, others 'nuke' Internet over SOPA?

    It looks like we going to have a day off lol but really way to go.

    WE ARE ALL AGAINST THAT BILL
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    Tucows is in too...

    Dear Developers,

    This message is to let you know about an important initiative Tucows is taking
    part in on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 that may impact you.

    The proposed SOPA legislation is fundamentally flawed in how it works and the
    damage it is likely to do to the Internet, which has been the greatest platform
    for innovation the world has ever seen. For that reason Tucows will be joining
    the blackout organized by our friends at Reddit by blacking out the Tucows
    Software Download site on January 18th, 2012 from 8 AM to 8 PM EST (1300-0100 UTC).

    During the 12-hour Blackout period, we will be displaying a full-screen overlay
    that will obscure the Download site pages and block access to them. This overlay
    will include information about why Tucows is participating in the Stop SOPA
    Blackout Day.

    How will this impact you?

    There will be few or no user interactions and downloads from
    Tucows.com/downloads during the blackout period. You will still be able to
    access your accounts in the Author Resource Centre and can continue to manage
    your keywords and update your products as you like, keeping in mind that normal
    service and site updates will return after the 12-hour blackout period.

    We apologize in advance for any inconvenience that our participation in the Stop
    SOPA Blackout Day may cause for you, but at the same time we urge you to
    consider how dangerous to all users of the Internet the SOPA legislation is if
    it were to become a reality. We thank you for your continued business and
    support, and we look forward to stopping SOPA in its tracks!

    If you have any questions or concerns regarding your listing in
    Tucows.com/Downloads please let us know by emailing developer@tucows.com

    For more information about our participation in the Stop SOPA Blackout Day, visit:

    Tucows Inc. News » Blog Archive » Why We Don’t Like SOPA

    Thank you from all of us here at Tucows!
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  • Profile picture of the author Fraser SellHealth
    This will never fly , and if it does god save our souls
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Fraser SellHealth View Post

      This will never fly , and if it does god save our souls
      It will never fly? The bailout did and it had more opposition than anything ever. The fact that the NDAA just passed is a very frightening indication that this WILL pass, and that it WILL be exploited.

      I've heard talk that Congress is ready to ditch it - but up til a few days before O signed NDAA into law, he claimed he would veto it. That didn't happen.

      You are right that the protest won't stop it on its own - but it will create awareness, it will allow people to see what it is like to be silenced. IF the awareness results in recall of the legislators who vote for it, we can get it knocked back down - but it will take action on top of the awareness.

      And whoever said that the companies that actually promoted this bill aren't being boycotted - you are right, but not many people understand that the same companies that built and sell the pirating software are the ones that orchestrated the bill in the first place. So everyone that has used that software just got tooled. Unfortunately - these idiots have just proved what a threat having no morals or scruples can be to EVERYONE.

      Writing to legislators with a loud offer to sign recall petitions if they sign and dropping off any company that pushed this bill into our government and sending them a nice clear letter telling them why they will no longer get money from your pocket is a real good start on getting the action necessary to stop this in its tracks. Either act, or just take your risks that your own site won't be the next one seized.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    I hope Paypal doesn't blackout, or if they do, they are still accepting payments. I'd rather not lose any sales over this foolishness.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by nicheblogger75 View Post

      I hope Paypal doesn't blackout, or if they do, they are still accepting payments. I'd rather not lose any sales over this foolishness.
      That "foolishness" is called your 1st Amendment right to free speech and autonomy. If you lose it, those 12 hours of sales aren't going to mean squat a few months from now. Trust me on that one.
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      • Profile picture of the author TheSpokesman
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        That "foolishness" is called your 1st Amendment right to free speech and autonomy. If you lose it, those 12 hours of sales aren't going to mean squat a few months from now. Trust me on that one.
        Have to agree. I'll give up a day of PayPal.
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Why would they? What would Paypal have to gain at all? The last thing that a company operating as an illegal bank wants is to piss off the people making the laws.
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    As far as SOPA, it is not yet late. We still have a shot.

    Sites like reddit have been trying to stand against it since the beginning.

    Jan. 24th: Our Best Chance to Kill SOPA - Blog - OpenCongress
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    • Profile picture of the author espresso
      will google join in
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    I would prefer to drop a pop-over on my sites during that window. The pop-over would explain the why and how to by-pass the pop-over.

    Anyone got some code I could use for that purpose?

    I know how to do it with htaccess, but I'd prefer to do it with javascript.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mike,
      1. The protest is far too little, far too late. If anone really cared about stopping SOPA/PIPA they should have "raised awareness" a long time ago.

      2. Protesting by hurting yourself only annoys people. Protests should actually hurt the people you are targeting.
      You were never an activist, were you?

      This kind of protest is seen as a literal "demonstration." An example to the public of what could happen in a widespread way if the bill passes. The short-term "pain" is considered by the protesters to be a good investment to prevent much more pain in the future.

      And a lot of people just won't do anything until they see the inconvenience at a personal level.

      The object of protests isn't, by the way, to hurt anyone. It's to show them the potential hurt they could experience if they ignore the protesters. In this case, voter outrage, staff time being consumed dealing with complaints, and possible loss of their jobs come next election, among other less obvious problems.

      In close races, things like this could be key issues. But only in close races. On the flip side, these issues tend to be part of coalition creation, which can build against a candidate and contribute to a nightmare over time.
      And umm... I might have different history books than you do, but it seems that while some do actually work, most protests and rebellions are crushed.
      Two words: Arab Spring.

      Another two: Mohandas Gandhi.

      Two more: Love Canal.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Mike,You were never an activist, were you?

        This kind of protest is seen as a literal "demonstration." An example to the public of what could happen in a widespread way if the bill passes. The short-term "pain" is considered by the protesters to be a good investment to prevent much more pain in the future.

        And a lot of people just won't do anything until they see the inconvenience at a personal level.

        The object of protests isn't, by the way, to hurt anyone. It's to show them the potential hurt they could experience if they ignore the protesters. In this case, voter outrage, staff time being consumed dealing with complaints, and possible loss of their jobs come next election, among other less obvious problems.

        In close races, things like this could be key issues. But only in close races. On the flip side, these issues tend to be part of coalition creation, which can build against a candidate and contribute to a nightmare over time.Two words: Arab Spring.

        Another two: Mohandas Gandhi.

        Two more: Love Canal.


        Paul

        Nope, I've never had a reason to be an activist, so that's why I've been so slow to understand this, perhaps. I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

        But, it wasn't the peaceful protests that brought awareness in those examples. It was the horrible suffering and the dying children.

        And in my experience, politicians don't make the choices that people want them to until they start feeling that pain-- not when it is only being threatened.
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      I would prefer to drop a pop-over on my sites during that window. The pop-over would explain the why and how to by-pass the pop-over.

      Anyone got some code I could use for that purpose?

      I know how to do it with htaccess, but I'd prefer to do it with javascript.
      greybox.

      You download it, upload it to your site, then add a simple "timeout" javascript command that will render the popover.

      Orangoo Labs - Download

      GreyBox - Advance usage
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  • Profile picture of the author agc
    A few more words to add to Pauls:

    trade unions (triangle shirtwaist factory)

    kent state

    martin luther king


    The reason most protests today don't accomplish anything is because the protesters aren't focused on a single issue. But when the big unifying issue arises.....
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  • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
    I think the message is clear here,

    Don't engage in any activity that infringes on others copyrights. I'm not a legal expert by any means and I don't purport to understand the potential legal ramifications of these bills, but it appears to me from reading them that this is not such a "bad" thing to do something to that helps protect the copyrights of others.

    I know several forums that will be gone pretty quick and many WSO product creators should be HAPPY about that! Including me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Russ,

      Yeah, it sounds good. The stated goal is something I support. But the implementation is abysmal.

      Let's assume this would apply to sites hosted in the US, which is unclear from many of the reports I've read. How could companies use this to get the forum added to this blacklist?

      Some kid uses a picture of a famous person as their avatar, without permission.

      A designer offers a product that contains graphics created by someone else, or photos they didn't pay licensing rights for.

      A poster replies to the question, "Is it safe to use a trademark in a domain name" by saying, "Yeah. Go ahead. Just remove it if you get caught."

      Some idiot posts links to warez sites in his signature file.

      The TV/movie spammers drop by.

      Someone posts a technique suggesting the use of YouTube videos without permission of the creators of those videos.

      One of the many music videos posted in threads in offtopic turns out to be unauthorized.

      A WSO seller offers software that's based on someone else's code.

      Anyone familiar with the forum knows we remove infringing material when it's reported and we have reasonable evidence that there is actual infringement. It is safe to assume, though, that not everything is reported. And some stuff we just don't have any way to know about for sure.

      Wouldn't matter. The site could be alleged to be pirate-friendly, and could be added to the blacklist.

      Does that sound like sensible legislation to you?


      Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I think the message is clear here,

      Don't engage in any activity that infringes on others copyrights. I'm not a legal expert by any means and I don't purport to understand the potential legal ramifications of these bills, but it appears to me from reading them that this is not such a "bad" thing to do something to that helps protect the copyrights of others.

      I know several forums that will be gone pretty quick and many WSO product creators should be HAPPY about that! Including me.

      Absolutely, I'm sure everyone here is against piracy and would support a bill that worked to stop it-- But SOPA and PIPA go too far.

      It steals too much liberty and provides too little security.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Russ,

        Yeah, it sounds good. The stated goal is something I support. But the implementation is abysmal.

        Let's assume this would apply to sites hosted in the US, which is unclear from many of the reports I've read. How could companies use this to get the forum added to this blacklist?

        Some kid uses a picture of a famous person as their avatar, without permission.

        A designer offers a product that contains graphics created by someone else, or photos they didn't pay licensing rights for.

        A poster replies to the question, "Is it safe to use a trademark in a domain name" by saying, "Yeah. Go ahead. Just remove it if you get caught."

        Some idiot posts links to warez sites in his signature file.

        The TV/movie spammers drop by.

        Someone posts a technique suggesting the use of YouTube videos without permission of the creators of those videos.

        One of the many music videos posted in threads in offtopic turns out to be unauthorized.

        A WSO seller offers software that's based on someone else's code.

        Anyone familiar with the forum knows we remove infringing material when it's reported and we have reasonable evidence that there is actual infringement. It is safe to assume, though, that not everything is reported. And some stuff we just don't have any way to know about for sure.

        Wouldn't matter. The site could be alleged to be pirate-friendly, and could be added to the blacklist.

        Does that sound like sensible legislation to you?


        Paul
        I see what you are saying but I fail to make the connection on how the examples you give pertain to a site like this or even Youtube? The bills require due diligence to determine if a site is dedicated to the infringement of copyrights.

        From my abysmal reading comprehension the operative word here is "Dedicated"

        Each bill has a section for definitions which give the meaning of a term in relation to the bill or text.

        Neither bill gives a definition for the word dedicated therefor we can rightly judge that the meaning pertains to the common understanding of this word.

        Look at it this way,

        • (b) Orders of the Court-
        (1) IN GENERAL- On application of the Attorney General following the commencement of an action under this section, the court may issue a temporary restraining order, a preliminary injunction, or an injunction, in accordance with rule 65 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, against the nondomestic domain name used by an Internet site dedicated (wholly committed to, as an ideal, personal goal, set apart or reserved for the specific purpose) to infringing activities,


        Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

        Absolutely, I'm sure everyone here is against piracy and would support a bill that worked to stop it-- But SOPA and PIPA go too far.

        It steals too much liberty and provides too little security.
        No one is at liberty to infringe on others rights. So please explain to me how you see it this way please.
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

      I think the message is clear here,

      Don't engage in any activity that infringes on others copyrights. I'm not a legal expert by any means and I don't purport to understand the potential legal ramifications of these bills, but it appears to me from reading them that this is not such a "bad" thing to do something to that helps protect the copyrights of others.

      I know several forums that will be gone pretty quick and many WSO product creators should be HAPPY about that! Including me.
      Sure - but we HAVE laws against it already. Why would they be dead set on a new one if it was just a copy of one already in place which they can already enforce any time they want to? This isn't about piracy - this is about the control to shut down anything that posts any information they don't want being seen by the public.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        Because DMCA doesn't work very well in other countries in many cases. How do you shut down a site that's being hosted in a basement?

        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Sure - but we HAVE laws against it already. Why would they be dead set on a new one if it was just a copy of one already in place which they can already enforce any time they want to? This isn't about piracy - this is about the control to shut down anything that posts any information they don't want being seen by the public.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          we HAVE laws against it already
          Yes, we have laws about piracy, child porn, etc for internet sites hosted in the U.S. We have no way to enforce our laws for countries which allow such activity and for sites hosted in those few countries and aimed at a U.S. audience.

          So - as a U.S. citizen you can't put up such a site in this country and be safe from prosecution or loss of the site but someone hosting in Russia or Romania can.

          That's one of my sticking points with the arguments against SOPA. I don't care for some of the wording and think it needs more consideration before action...but...is freedom from censorship defined as "the right to do whatever I want to do online"? We've seen the argument of "free speech" used by some who ended up paying in court for "slander".

          To be blacklisted requires authorities get the approval/sign off of a judge. That's not enough for me - should be a panel decision where the information is publicly available during the process. The circumstances under which blacklisting can occur are not clearly defined.

          I'm uneasy both with those in full support of SOPA - and those dead set against it.


          EDIT: Big companies protect their interests and some see SOPA as either protecting those interests or leading to other protections/interpretations that will suit their business or in leading to something that will harm their business in the future.

          Industrial espionage, sharing of plans and production schedules, possible release of company secrets, etc. Their position on SOPA is based on bottom line or on concern about future bottom line - and protection from liability. It's business for most of them.
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          • Remain Diligent: SOPA and PIPA Must Be Squashed, Not Changed

            As members of both the Senate and the House start falling back to a more defensible position by considering the removal of the DNS provision from SOPA and PIPA, many voices of opposition to the bills are claiming victory. This is a big mistake.

            Remain Diligent: SOPA and PIPA Must Be Squashed, Not Changed | Fast Company
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          • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
            That's not entirely true. I mentioned in another thread that the U.S. has bilateral copyright agreements in place with many countries.

            This being said, it can be next to impossible to get a site in another country to remove infringing materials only through a DMCA notice even if a bilateral agreement is in place.

            One would most likely need to hire an attorney in the offending country to have the material removed if the site owner is defiant or not responsive.

            See the list: Bilateral copyright agreements of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Yes, we have laws about piracy, child porn, etc for internet sites hosted in the U.S. We have no way to enforce our laws for countries which allow such activity and for sites hosted in those few countries and aimed at a U.S. audience.

            So - as a U.S. citizen you can't put up such a site in this country and be safe from prosecution or loss of the site but someone hosting in Russia or Romania can.

            That's one of my sticking points with the arguments against SOPA. I don't care for some of the wording and think it needs more consideration before action...but...is freedom from censorship defined as "the right to do whatever I want to do online"? We've seen the argument of "free speech" used by some who ended up paying in court for "slander".

            To be blacklisted requires authorities get the approval/sign off of a judge. That's not enough for me - should be a panel decision where the information is publicly available during the process. The circumstances under which blacklisting can occur are not clearly defined.

            I'm uneasy both with those in full support of SOPA - and those dead set against it.


            EDIT: Big companies protect their interests and some see SOPA as either protecting those interests or leading to other protections/interpretations that will suit their business or in leading to something that will harm their business in the future.

            Industrial espionage, sharing of plans and production schedules, possible release of company secrets, etc. Their position on SOPA is based on bottom line or on concern about future bottom line - and protection from liability. It's business for most of them.
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          • Profile picture of the author UptonGoodwin
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Yes, we have laws about piracy, child porn, etc for internet sites hosted in the U.S. We have no way to enforce our laws for countries which allow such activity and for sites hosted in those few countries and aimed at a U.S. audience.

            So - as a U.S. citizen you can't put up such a site in this country and be safe from prosecution or loss of the site but someone hosting in Russia or Romania can.
            So the US should have the right to remove websites that aren't breaking the law in the country they are hosted in?

            Even if you think the wording on the bill doesn't apply to you, if one of these two bills pass, it's only going to lead to more legislation involving the Internet as the congressmen who have been bought to support this bill will support others, like the removal of net neutuallity. This bill passing very easily could lead to you paying your ISP extra money to use facebook.
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Just a couple of things...

              > Paul mentioned "a kid using a copyrighted image as an avatar." If you watch that left column for any period of time, you'll see enough copyright infringements and trademark violations to make an ambulance chaser drool.

              > It's not a simple matter of "awareness" - it's a matter of reeducation. Most people see the stuff the folks with the money and the media access want them to see.

              Someone says "this is bad." Another goes to the source and says "so and so says this is bad." Media supporters say "of course they say that, they want to keep offending." Doesn't matter if it's true.

              > Politicos have their own method of squashing protests. It's called the "never-ending fundraiser." Try writing to your Congressman or Senator. You end up on the "politically active" mailing list and get buried under mail, phone calls, etc. asking for your "support", which you can easily show by check or credit card.

              I really hope this thing can be defeated, because I have infinite faith in our politicos' ability to screw things up.
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          • Profile picture of the author HeySal
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            Yes, we have laws about piracy, child porn, etc for internet sites hosted in the U.S. We have no way to enforce our laws for countries which allow such activity and for sites hosted in those few countries and aimed at a U.S. audience.

            So - as a U.S. citizen you can't put up such a site in this country and be safe from prosecution or loss of the site but someone hosting in Russia or Romania can.

            That's one of my sticking points with the arguments against SOPA. I don't care for some of the wording and think it needs more consideration before action...but...is freedom from censorship defined as "the right to do whatever I want to do online"? We've seen the argument of "free speech" used by some who ended up paying in court for "slander".

            To be blacklisted requires authorities get the approval/sign off of a judge. That's not enough for me - should be a panel decision where the information is publicly available during the process. The circumstances under which blacklisting can occur are not clearly defined.

            I'm uneasy both with those in full support of SOPA - and those dead set against it.


            EDIT: Big companies protect their interests and some see SOPA as either protecting those interests or leading to other protections/interpretations that will suit their business or in leading to something that will harm their business in the future.

            Industrial espionage, sharing of plans and production schedules, possible release of company secrets, etc. Their position on SOPA is based on bottom line or on concern about future bottom line - and protection from liability. It's business for most of them.
            Hmmm - that's odd. Of those 82 sites that were seized some months back WITHOUT due process - many were US sites. The vast majority had nothing to do with pirating. Yet you trust the wisdom of people who just enacted NDAA?

            It was not Congress who wrote this bill - it was lobbied to them by the same corporations who made and sold pirating software - and even used its ability to be used for pirating as the basis for selling it - an act that the very bill they lobbied for makes illegal as hell. Yet there are those who do not understand the full hazard of this bill. Look at the actions set to follow (further regulation - US Internet ID for one) and add them up together. Your hair will turn grey - fast.

            People have GOT to stop looking at each act of Congress as an isolated issue and start looking at the progression. Each act opens the way for something just a little more restrictive down the way. The Patriot act used to be used only overseas for purposes of war and suddenly it is a monster that took down due process in the US. Well who could have seen that coming - right? Anyone who understands what the move from free press to corporate news, and anyone who has seen things like monitoring phone calls, attaching people to GPS, and cameras on street corners saw it. The rest were running around not giving a crap, yelling "tinfoil" at anyone who warned them - or making sensible, "logical" statements about how benign some further act of Congress that really was outside of their power scope actually was.

            Sorry - not buying the "no harm done" argument on this one at all.
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            • Profile picture of the author mustbecrap
              Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

              People have GOT to stop looking at each act of Congress as an isolated issue and start looking at the progression. Each act opens the way for something just a little more restrictive down the way. The Patriot act used to be used only overseas for purposes of war and suddenly it is a monster that took down due process in the US. Well who could have seen that coming - right? Anyone who understands what the move from free press to corporate news, and anyone who has seen things like monitoring phone calls, attaching people to GPS, and cameras on street corners saw it. The rest were running around not giving a crap, yelling "tinfoil" at anyone who warned them - or making sensible, "logical" statements about how benign some further act of Congress that really was outside of their power scope actually was.

              Sorry - not buying the "no harm done" argument on this one at all.
              I agree totally..

              It is never what you see, its always what you dont see.. When I look at this I see tragedy on so many levels.. But I wonder what is going on in the left hand when they have us focused on their right hand.

              As nature lady pointed out, the Patriot Act proved that.

              Its true that many just sit back and say nothing.. But I for one hope the whole net goes down for the day, any short term losses I experience will be gained back.. I can only hope that someone big enough joins in.. if google joined in then the average person would see the truth..

              lets look at it from another side:

              I certainly don't want to have to explain to my grand children when they ask (who by the way are no yet born, my children dont have partners, and I certainly hope my daugher is no preganant .. what will you say if you grandchild asks, "grandpa what were you doing when they took away our freedom", how will you answer that one.. "I was sitting watching the TV".. For many that's the only response they will have...


              mbc
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                No, Sal, I didn't say I trusted them. I read the bill quite some time ago and I don't like it. I also don't like the fear mongering "what if's" that are being used in some areas where people are pushing their own agendas (or corporate agendas).

                I don't trust the "I won't sign it" either - we've heard that one before. I agree (in an election year) loud protest will put off the bill until they think they can slide it through quickly with no fanfare. It might be changed, or might not.

                So the US should have the right to remove websites that aren't breaking the law in the country they are hosted in?
                That's where I have problem. The truth is no- I don't think "they" should be able to take down a site located in another country...but we may have the right to keep those sites from being transmitted in our country where they do violate the law.

                Why does Hostgator take down a site if it receives a DMCA or a porn complaint? Because if they don't, they can also be in trouble. What's the difference if ISP's were required to block access to certain sites that are in clear violation of US laws?

                To me, the problem with SOPA isn't the initial goal of restricting sites that break US law from distribution in the US. It's in creating a monster that uses a sledge hammer instead of a scalpel.

                I don't like SOPA and don't trust legislators to get it right. But I also don't trust the motives of the some of the groups fighting against it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        Sure - but we HAVE laws against it already. Why would they be dead set on a new one if it was just a copy of one already in place which they can already enforce any time they want to? This isn't about piracy - this is about the control to shut down anything that posts any information they don't want being seen by the public.
        Unfortunately the laws and apparatus to enforce them are not effective so thats not entirely accurate. SOPA is horrible the way it is written but the flip side of that is that is that there is an issue and one of the problems why the Media industry can get so far with it is because there isn't that much of a passion for ending piracy among online users.

        Theres kind of a wink and a shrug. We want to be able to go on and take music, watch a clip and use software without paying for it. There IS a sub culture among internet users that maintain that everything on it should be free. We tend not to get upset about that mentality until one of our WSO products ends up being offered somewhere we didn't authorize it.

        That kind of sets the stage to frame the battle as property owners against those who want to steal property.

        So I don't know about an earlier post that says the bill should just be defeated not changed. I see some room to change it and make a mature attempt at addressing some legitimate issues. Like most I am not in it for the studios that make millions of dollars but due to some connections I am aware of those who are not making as much as some people think and that do get bit hard by piracy.

        Screen writers who don't get paid anywhere near what you would expect them to get (given that its their stories most of the time), Musicians, basically anyone getting paid any royalties. By the time the present safeguards work their way through the legal system they lose out permanently from piracy and some are making less than many us us are.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Mike,
          We tend not to get upset about that mentality until one of our WSO products ends up being offered somewhere we didn't authorize it.
          Who is this "we" of which you speak, Mouseketeer?

          Seriously, you have an excellent point. We see it all the time in this forum, but usually only from losers who have never produced anything more useful than McFertilizer in their lives. People who have a vested personal interest in being able to grab and "share" whatever digital goodies they want, without the crippling inconvenience of being called thieves for their troubles.

          Occasionally you get someone like Caliban, who is an actual producer, and who has put an effort of thought into the thing that gives his opinions on the subject weight and credibility. I don't agree with all of his conclusions, but I find his arguments sensible and thought provoking.

          He doesn't advocate piracy, mind you, but he's got a much better understanding of the "information wants to be free" half of the quote than most people will bother to attempt.

          Still, as you say, it is largely a matter of personal convenience, rather than principle, for most people. And we, as a group, are guilty of a significant sin in this regard. Every time we devalue experience and skill at teaching, or let some clueless git spout off without correction about how everything in the market is just "rehashed crap," we encourage the mindset that rationalizes these thefts.

          I have often wondered if the generalized hatred of "gurus" we see in the rantings of so many of our members doesn't derive from the same root.

          And we wonder why teachers are so poorly paid.


          Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author agc
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          Theres kind of a wink and a shrug. We want to be able to go on and take music, watch a clip and use software without paying for it. There IS a sub culture among internet users that maintain that everything on it should be free. We tend not to get upset about that mentality until one of our WSO products ends up being offered somewhere we didn't authorize it.

          That kind of sets the stage to frame the battle as property owners against those who want to steal property.
          That's the core of what's at stake... property owners wanting to defend their property from the thieves. But there is also another (often overlooked) dimension to the issue, namely, that the property owners are using the property for profit in the context of a society, and therefore are responsible to that society on some level. This nuance is almost overlooked in these debates. A property owner doesn't HAVE to expose their property to the public, but they choose to so that they can take money from the public in exchange for some use of the property.

          To illustrate, say I own commercial property in NYC that I rent out for $5000 / mo. How much of that $5000 is because of the intrinsic value of my property? Most entrepreneurs will immediately say "ALL OF IT, BECAUSE YOU OWN IT." But to that I say.... then take that property out of NYC and put it in Middleton, Nebraska. Now how much rent do you get for it? The difference is the amount that I as a property holder am benefitting from SCOIETY every single month. And I'd bet in NYC, thats about 80% of the total rent income.

          The propery owners want to benefit from the society... but they don't want to pay for it. So far, the large property owners are really benefitting way more than they are suffering. Except for the poor suckers that bought MySpace. Whoa.

          Much as the feudal lords owned the land, and let the serfs till it for (just barely) sustenance... modern property owners would like to own "the land" of the internet.

          The problem is that feudalism really sucks for the 99.9% of us who aren't the feudal Lords.

          Not to say I'm advocating piracy... but when things get too far out of balance, there does tend to be a violent swing the other way.

          And today, the "out of whack" is not to the detriment of the Lords of Property. Today, the out of whack is to the detriment of the ever increasing serf class. While piracy is out there on the internet, it's not like the feudal Lords have been starving. The piracy is no where near on the level where a violent broad sweeping action is warranted. And things that further the oppression of the McFertilizer chaps actually push the accumulation of "property" even further towards an eventual melt down.

          The irony is that the US may eventually be the next Egypt or Syria. Though hopefully not in my lifetime.

          I don't really have any solutions here... just a little more food for thought.
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          • Profile picture of the author atvking
            As I see it most people are worried about SOPA being abused, but I don't fully understand.
            Abusing any law is in fact illegal. Break the law and you will be punished.

            So lets say I have website x and some competitor y falsely accuses me of pirating his content, my site gets shut down, I sue and win $$$.

            Am I wrong with this presumption?

            To me, at a first glance, it seems that people are afraid of false complaints bringing their property down? You will get your day in court and sue the pants off of them no?
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by atvking View Post

              As I see it most people are worried about SOPA being abused, but I don't fully understand.
              Abusing any law is in fact illegal. Break the law and you will be punished.

              So lets say I have website x and some competitor y falsely accuses me of pirating his content, my site gets shut down, I sue and win $$$.

              Am I wrong with this presumption?

              To me, at a first glance, it seems that people are afraid of false complaints bringing their property down? You will get your day in court and sue the pants off of them no?
              You've obviously never been involved with a legal action involving a major corporation and a legal team commanding fees higher than the GDP of some countries.

              You may run out of resources long before that day in court comes. Like when you ask for documentation, as is your right, and the corporation delivers print copies using a semi-trailer truck. Which gives them time to root around in the deep dark recesses of your closet looking for bone fragments.

              I read once that the average wait to get that day in court was measured in years. And even if you do live long enough to win, you still have to collect.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Mike,

    The disability movement, ADA laws, and currently home care has been done mainly by protests. Disabled people getting arrested, news outlets reporting on it, politicians then getting beind it and then people getting behind it.

    It's a long process but most of whats been done is from protests where there really was no one to "hurt" long term.

    Are there times when people need to use force? Yes. And in this instant, people should be boycotting sponsors. Which would hurt both sides.

    I saw a guy complaining about the RIAA and he said "cant do anything as their isnt an alternative." My reply was to not support band that are members. He didnt like that.

    Garrie
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Here's another protest some of us may have heard of: The Boston tea party.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Russ,
      Neither bill gives a definition for the word dedicated therefor we can rightly judge that the meaning pertains to the common understanding of this word.
      "Rightly?" Are you certain enough of that to bet your own sites on your interpretation? Or your right to visit sites that might be wholly against piracy, but found to be "dedicated" to it by whatever some corporate lawyer or under/mis-informed judge thinks it means?

      The problem with this stuff is that these sorts of things tend to get rubber-stamped under the goal of prevention, and you have to prove your innocence after the action has been taken. That is rarely a speedy or inexpensive process.

      The US government doesn't exactly have the best record with this sort of "preventative" system. Remember the US Senator (Teddy Kennedy) who was refused air passage because he had been placed on our anti-terrorist "no fly" list? Or the FISA court's rubber-stamping of wiretapping orders for peaceful US citizens?

      And you can bet that, even if it doesn't apply to US-based sites when passed, the word "non-domestic" will be removed at some point.

      You place much more faith in the goodwill and good sense of bureaucrats than I ever would.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
        OK Paul, you are right! I'm on board! Its the application of the law that I am now concerned about! Can't trust those bureaucrats as far as you can throw them.


        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Russ,"Rightly?" Are you certain enough of that to bet your own sites on your interpretation? Or your right to visit sites that might be wholly against piracy, but found to be "dedicated" to it by whatever some corporate lawyer or under/mis-informed judge thinks it means?

        The problem with this stuff is that these sorts of things tend to get rubber-stamped under the goal of prevention, and you have to prove your innocence after the action has been taken. That is rarely a speedy or inexpensive process.

        The US government doesn't exactly have the best record with this sort of "preventative" system. Remember the US Senator (Teddy Kennedy) who was refused air passage because he had been placed on our anti-terrorist "no fly" list? Or the FISA court's rubber-stamping of wiretapping orders for peaceful US citizens?

        And you can bet that, even if it doesn't apply to US-based sites when passed, the word "non-domestic" will be removed at some point.

        You place much more faith in the goodwill and good sense of bureaucrats than I ever would.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Torreylee
          Originally Posted by Rus Sells View Post

          Its the application of the law that I am now concerned about! Can't trust those bureaucrats as far as you can throw them.
          I couldn't say it better if I sat here for two hours trying. Us the people are NOT the ones being taken into account, it's the liars and snakes in power. Almost ANY law can be twisted to fit the criteria of those who are in control.
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  • They really have to understand people are not necessarily against their intention - just the intended method. It won't work. They have to listen to reason. How do you to get them to listen?

    Apparently - they are finally listening...if this isn't just a dodge for time -
    Under voter pressure, members of Congress backpedal (hard) on SOPA
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

      They really have to understand people are not necessarily against their intention - just the intended method. It won't work. They have to listen to reason. How do you to get them to listen?

      Apparently - they are finally listening...if this isn't just a dodge for time -
      Under voter pressure, members of Congress backpedal (hard) on SOPA
      That ruse is often used to get the public to stop hammering. Then they pass it anyway and most don't realize it because of the "commitment" against the bill that was publicized just before they passed it.

      DO NOT EVER trust anything that says a bill won't go through -- stick to your guns and hammer on it until it is defeated.

      Need an example of one that was being hammered to hell and back until Mr. President promised he'd veto it - then people eased up because it was promised all would be okay - then the bill was NOT vetoed? NDAA - Americans no longer have habeas corpus and posse comentatus on their OWN soil.

      If you would trust any government that would take your right to due process away from you and make it just fine and dandy for them to kick your door in, seize you without just cause, detain you forever without one word to anyone about where you are - then you are out of your mind.
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    I am disappointed on how some warrior are given negative impact about the protest before it even start.

    As Internet Marketer and (Warriors) we are suppose to be more positive than anyone else on the internet.

    SOPA is not going to solve anything, and I wouldn't be shocked if it pass. Maybe everyone wake up once he realize what he lost.

    A copyrighted maerial can shutdown facebook because a 13 years old uploaded a song or a photo is famous singer.

    Warrior Froum might disappear because a copy righter report WSO that relay on his software or even a new member changed his profile image to "copyrighted image"

    We might wake up and find twitter in a blackout because they linked to a media site in third world countries, oops they brought some unwanted news.

    Now they mentioned that someone can go to jail up to 5 years for uploading a stream media, does that mean, a 13 years old will grow up in jail or the court take custody because his parents didn't give him enough awareness of SOPA or PIPA

    anyway, back to seriousness, if we believe this bill shouldn't pass, our biggest issue shouldn't be 12 hours of blackout and no sales.

    We are warriors, and I hope as warriors we can show that we up to the challenge. reddit owner done a big part on his behalf and he will be on the hearing, let us show him our support and that there is more people who are saying NO to SOPA and PIPA.

    If this bill didn't pass make sure you done your part in stopping it

    and if it pass, make sure you don't regret that you didn't care enough to say No loud enough
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  • Profile picture of the author Benjamin Ehinger
    You know it is up to us citizen and it is time we all GROW A PAIR and stand up for our rights. The United States has WAY too much government and it is no longer a Government for the people.....WE PAY TAXES and these idiots work for us!

    Stop allowing lobbyist to make all the decisions with their pocket books. Protesting is how we changed this country a number of times and there are many forms to use.

    ONE I have been using for quite some time is NOT shopping at huge stores like Wal-mart. I would rather support my local business person because our country was founded on small businesses and will NEVER get back to a good economical place until we start putting more into these smaller businesses and start eliminating the Corporate Greed

    SOPA is a ridiculous idea and one more way of this government trying to control us, the money, and everything else that makes the USA such a great country!

    Benjamin Ehinger
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  • Profile picture of the author theebookcavern
    Hey Guys - Has anyone seen this script? Pretty useful for anyone wanting to protest.

    Sopa Blackout

    Unfortunately, I can't take the credit for the find. Barbling posted it in this thread:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...stop-sopa.html

    Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
    If this ACT really goes through, we might find ourselves on a TOR network by the end of this month. I pray for the vurnable souls that will see another kind of Internet when that happens. It's good that some stuff is getting filtered already, like ordering drugs (cocaine,heroine) online and child.. well you know what I mean. If the general public and a more inexperienced public gets exposed to this kind of stuff..

    They banned the Pirate Bay last week here in The Netherlands. Funny, to see that the only countries that banned this website next to my country are Iran and China.. Not that I was roaming around much on this site, but it does say something about where the Internet might be heading to.

    Some people basically already explained how to get on the Pirate Bay via a TOR network..ON NATIONAL TELEVISION.

    Well, I am quitely watching on the side..
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    • Profile picture of the author vendor
      I suggest raising the largest petition ever created on the internet.
      We need to buy a domain like "stopSopa.com" or something like that
      and call people from all over the world to sign.
      The opposition to this law is probably in the hundreds of millions
      of people worldwide and such a petition could be a powerful tool in this case when congress will see how large the opposition is world wide.
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      • Profile picture of the author StevenJones
        Ever heard of www.avaaz.org ? This global organization fights against these kind of bills. They do this by getting petitions signed. Almost each petetion gets signed by over a million users. They alreade featured this SOPA thing twice.

        Already did a small campaing on my personal facebook page, called 'Save The Internet' that was the least I could do.

        Originally Posted by vendor View Post

        I suggest raising the largest petition ever created on the internet.
        We need to buy a domain like "stopSopa.com" or something like that
        and call people from all over the world to sign.
        The opposition to this law is probably in the hundreds of millions
        of people worldwide and such a petition could be a powerful tool in this case when congress will see how large the opposition is world wide.
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  • Profile picture of the author meltingwaves
    Hola,

    I think it's really cool of big companies to totally shut themselves off, even knowing that they'll lose some profit, because they believe so much in the freedom of content on the internet. I just believe that everything needs to be free flowing so that people can access what they need to access in order to take their lives to the next level, and we shouldn't put restrictions on that.

    I heard LinkedIn was also on the lists of websites that would go dark to protest this too. That would be interesting indeed...

    Benjamin Jacques
    Melting Waves
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by meltingwaves View Post

      Hola,

      I think it's really cool of big companies to totally shut themselves off, even knowing that they'll lose some profit,

      Yeah it's noble, and maybe it will bring some "awareness" as I have been shown. But unless that awareness is channeled into concentrated effort to affect the money the politicians are getting... Have you seen how much money they are getting!? from those people trying to get them to pass SOPA/PIPA??


      This shows you how much they have received from lobbyists who want them to pass SOPA.

      This shows you how much they have received from loybbyists who want them to pass PIPA.


      Losing a few thousand dollars from your own bank account is not really going to hurt their feelings, if anything they are laughing at you with a glass of whiskey in one hand and an escort in the other. If we blackout the Warrior Forum, for example, we really need to hammer these legislatures hard during their hearing on the 18th, and really support those who have said they are against it.


      1. Swamp the politicians with phone calls and emails before, during, and after their hearing on the 18th

      2. Swamp the corporations with warnings that they will be boycotted en masse
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  • Profile picture of the author DigitalBusker
    Just wonder if Americans have not heard of SOPA and what it means? They can bury their heads in sand if they want, they will at least know it's their choice if they do. If they let SOPA go through though, then that lets someone ELSE bury their heads for them. They might regret this.

    One sponsor I did see was Caterpillar inc. I wonder if they just like the principle of SOPA or does Caterpillar believe there is widespread counterfeiting of its products? Can't be easy to copy those.
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by DigitalBusker View Post

      Just wonder if Americans have not heard of SOPA and what it means? They can bury their heads in sand if they want, they will at least know it's their choice if they do. If they let SOPA go through though, then that lets someone ELSE bury their heads for them. They might regret this.

      One sponsor I did see was Caterpillar inc. I wonder if they just like the principle of SOPA or does Caterpillar believe there is widespread counterfeiting of its products? Can't be easy to copy those.
      Or maybe Caterpiller doens't have any skin in the internet game, so it's a lot easier for them to support what's right? [edit - oops, I see they support SOPA not oppose it... now I have no idea whats up with Caterpillar. Doesn't really change my opinion much though.]

      One thing worth keeping in mind: Every single one of us more or less knows what's right and wrong... it's only when we have to act on that knowledge in the context of our own goals, needs, wants... that it suddenly becomes "a grey area" and we start rationalizing stuff we really know is wrong into righteousness.

      This is why the problems are intractable... because we (people in general) freely and openly discuss the concepts, but then act on our closely guarded own selfish interests.

      So Google is all of a sudden all about "right and wrong"... but really it's ONLY because this time THEY have something to lose. They never gave it a second thought when terminating adsense accounts, seizing the assets (balances), without recourse, and without any shred of due process or appeal or arbitration.

      The reality is that people are hypocrites and companies are hypocrites... we all are by nature. However rich people and rich companies can inflict their hypocrisy on us all in broad sweeping strokes by exerting the power afforded by their wealth.

      And it doesn't help that the vast majority of people are timid sheeple, safety, comfort and convenience come first at all times. They dare not fight back lest they be risk being inconvenienced, discomforted.

      For example, the ONLY way that we as a nation can actually conserve energy is to price it so people can't afford to waste it. Nothing else has ever worked. Sure we have public opinion. But that's just the stuff people openly talk about and it has almost nothing to do with what they actually DO.

      Maybe that helps to understand what's really going on here with SOPA. Rich publishers (RIAA, MPAA) want to protect their intellectual property. Other rich publishers (Google, Reddit, etc) want to protect their intellectual property.

      None of this has anything to do with right and wrong... it's only about how they can spin it to convince the sheeple to buy into their partisan BS.

      (That said, I am vehemently opposed to SOPA. It's yet another gross violation of due process, shifting the burden of proof even more to the accused. It also is incompetently written from even the most basic technology standpoint.)
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    • Profile picture of the author Lee MacRae
      Originally Posted by DigitalBusker View Post

      One sponsor I did see was Caterpillar inc. I wonder if they just like the principle of SOPA or does Caterpillar believe there is widespread counterfeiting of its products? Can't be easy to copy those.
      Actually there are factories in "low cost" countries that build equipment and put the Caterpillar name on it just as you see with Disney products or Louis Vuitton handbags. And for many of these big name companies the aftermarket parts are even more lucrative than the original equipment they build and that's another area where factories build counterfeit products and put them into the marketplace. Back about a decade or so there were a number of people in Canada killed when transport truck tires came off and rolled down the highways. An investigation revealed "grey market" or counterfeit bolts that were holding the tires on had snapped because they were actually made from low grade materials instead of the higher grade required to prevent this type of accident. I've personally seen counterfeit products from equipment in quarries to chains and bearings on amusement park rides. Nobody gets killed from using a Louis Vuitton handbag but you certainly don't want your roller coaster ride to go off the rails because the equipment is counterfeit and under specification.

      However, one of the problems I have with these big-name companies claiming to want to protect jobs through legislation like SOPA is that in many cases they're not protecting large numbers of jobs in the USA because a lot of these companies are now producing their products "offshore", many in "sweat shop" environments...just check out great
      American" companies like Caterpillar or Levi. Levi moved all production out of North America starting back in 1992 even though they admitted they were making money... they said they could make a lot more with offshore products. These companies destroyed a lot of American jobs...which is the reason why the middle-class [who paid a lot of taxes and supplied revenue to the government] is rapidly disappearing...and now they want the American government to support them in their fight against counterfeit products and any websites that offer them for sale!?
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      • Profile picture of the author DigitalBusker
        Originally Posted by Lee MacRae View Post

        However, one of the problems I have with these big-name companies claiming to want to protect jobs through legislation like SOPA is that in many cases they're not protecting large numbers of jobs in the USA because a lot of these companies are now producing their products "offshore", many in "sweat shop" environments...just check out great
        American" companies like Caterpillar or Levi. Levi moved all production out of North America starting back in 1992 even though they admitted they were making money... they said they could make a lot more with offshore products. These companies destroyed a lot of American jobs...which is the reason why the middle-class [who paid a lot of taxes and supplied revenue to the government] is rapidly disappearing...and now they want the American government to support them in their fight against counterfeit products and any websites that offer them for sale!?
        This is a well made point. It's clearly legislation that will be negative on jobs at a time when the US can least afford it. Reddit say their business model could not have come into existence if SOPA was in force at the time. The computer industry is one area the US has going for it. It seems SOPA wil change this. In time tax revenue could/will be negatively affected because of it? An unintended consequence of course!

        But the US Government has shown a fair degree of hysteria in wanting to impose it's will not just on its own people but on other countries as well, as in US pressured Spain to implement online piracy law | Technology | guardian.co.uk

        There is a strong suggestion the US government is also going along with SOPA as it will more easily be able to use this legislation to increase tax collection! If there's one thing that (highly) motivates politicians to act, it's this kind of possibility.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by drmani View Post

          Seen this?

          White House Will Not Support SOPA, PIPA

          All success
          Dr.Mani
          Dr. Mani, with all due respect, when I read that article my first reaction was "Wow, there has to be a pony in there somewhere!" Particularly in an election year that sees a president with historically low approval ratings and a congress with ratings in the single digits.

          Originally Posted by DigitalBusker View Post

          Let's hope so. A few luminaries have tried to flag their opposition to SOPA, the question is does Congress want to listen to them?

          https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/1...-sopa-and-pipa
          That's quite a "murderer's row" of Internet techies. I hope the administration is smart enough to listen to them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Roan
    I'm all for it if it wakes up people! Most of the people have no clue of what is going on and what will happen. There are actually conspiracy theories that have come true and will come true. This has been one of em. We can still try to prevent this whole SOPA thing from happening!
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    Some interesting thoughts, opinions, ideas, some more interesting than others, but the only real way to stop this insanity, is to vote these scum buckets that support this kind of stupidity, That is really the only way that anything will change is if the congressmen and senators get the idea that they might loose their Fat Government, jobs.

    All the protesting in the world will never make any difference at all as long as those that sponsor these Bills, (often they do not even read them) because they did not write them, until these Jokers, are held accountable for what they do nothing will ever change.

    Just vote them out, once they get the idea that they could loose their jobs over supporting this kind of legal trash, they will think twice before blindly supporting these kind of bills.

    The Electronic Frontier Foundation laid out four excellent points as to why the bills are not only dangerous, but are also not effective for what they are trying to accomplish:
    • The blacklist bills are expensive. The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that PIPA alone would cost the taxpayers at least $47 million over 5 years, and could cost the private sector many times more. Those costs would be carried mostly by the tech industry, hampering growth and innovation.
    • The blacklist bills silence legitimate speech. Rightsholders, ISPs, or the government could shut down sites with accusations of infringement, and without real due process.
    • The blacklist bills are bad for the architecture of the Internet. But don't take our word for it: see the open letters that dozens of the Internet's concerned creators have submitted to Congress about the impact the bills would have on the security of the web.
    • The blacklist bills won't stop online piracy.
      The tools these bills would grant rightsholders are like chainsaws in an operating room: they do a lot of damage, and they aren't very effective in the first place. The filtering methods might dissuade casual users, but they would be trivial for dedicated and technically savvy users to circumvent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    @Tinfoil, hat, LOL, good one, at the risk of getting way off topic, the PA, as some have said is being used in ways it was never "Meant" to be used.

    That is why SOPA and PIPA is so important, congress is out of control no doubt about that, if we do not firmly take control of what we do on the Internet someone else will.

    Did you know that the P.A. is being used to obtain "Sneak and Peak" Warrants where black hooded thugs in Body Armour, penetrate a US home to see what they can see that might be illegal, if they find anything they come back and this time they dont sneak. No one back in when the Patroit act was enacted ever thought it would one day be used to fund a "War on Drugs" but that is what they are doing.

    The P.A. is being used to seize vehicles and homes, in the war on Drugs, because and get this, money has been traced from the sale of drugs in the US to fund activities "Covered in the Patriot Act"

    We can look at history, and see what happens, when good men do nothing, and while there are likely none here that remember prohibition, we can study it in context here, Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Now, I know this is definitely Tinfoil hat territory,

    But if they are using the Patriot act to fund the War on Drugs, and if they are using I.C.E. to take down websites, (with no constitutional or congressional authority at all)

    What do you think they will do, if they get PIPA and SOPA passed, how long do you think it would take them before they were able to get "your" website shut down. How long before a post like this would result in men with black masks showing up at your door?

    I realize that a lot of people here may not live in the U.S. but for those of us that do, this year is an election year, and if you value your freedom to get online and do what you want to do with your money, with your free will, then you need to take Action, )

    Call your Senator, (you wont actually get to talk to him or her) but you can talk to an Aid who will jot down your name and phone number, and give them a short but polite version of why you feel that SOPA and PIPA are bad for America and the world.

    We may not be able to stop everything that is wrong in this world but we can stop this and

    we can vote against any one that supports SOPA and PIPA

    We can Boycott any company that supports SOPA and PIPA

    We can do that, and while wearing a tinfoil hat will not do any good at all, except perhaps good for a laugh, if your not careful, someone wearing a tinfoil hat will come up to you someday under a Bridge and say

    "I told you so"

    Take legal action, in 2012 Vote the Buggers out...
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  • Profile picture of the author Mate
    If facebook, google, wikipedia, paypal etc. shut down for a day, a BILLION people will have awareness of SOPA and they will ALL be against that.
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    • Profile picture of the author DigitalBusker
      Originally Posted by Mate View Post

      If facebook, google, wikipedia, paypal etc. shut down for a day, a BILLION people will have awareness of SOPA and they will ALL be against that.
      Let's hope so. A few luminaries have tried to flag their opposition to SOPA, the question is does Congress want to listen to them?

      https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/1...-sopa-and-pipa
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    • Profile picture of the author Rus Sells
      It's actually more on that list, Cheezbuger as a network of sites is 50+ so the list is actually well over 100. YAY!!

      Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Tucows, Cheezburger are recognizable - most of the others I've never heard of.

        It's good he list is growing - but 100 sites on the internet is nothing and we all know that. Now, if all the blogs that attracted visitors by talking about SOPA decide to go "dark" the number would be MUCH bigger.

        If you google the term.....stop SOPA - there are 132,000,000 results. If you exact match, it's 1,350,000. Now that number would make a statement
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  • Profile picture of the author vendor
    From what i read today SOPA is well on it's way to getting dead and buried..
    now PIPA is next..
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  • Profile picture of the author CyberSEO
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      I absolutely guarantee you that these bills will not die. They may appear to die, but they will simply be reintroduced in slightly different forms with new names. And they will be passed. This is standard operating procedure.

      And it's a sad thing. The specific problems with these bills are secondary to my general concern over any government interference in the internet. The internet works. Leave it alone.

      To the extent that there are still problems with copyright enforcement on the net, if those problems can't be solved without giving the accuser overly broad powers and putting the burden on the accused, then it can't be solved. Because that "solution" is not a legitimate option.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Don't you believe it.

      PIPA is still active, and they're not going to stop if they smell some other potential benefit aside from the IP protection. The minute the heat dies down, some version of the thing will be back, unless we make it clear that we're not going to accept any form of this idea as US law.

      I've been thinking for a couple of days about the implications of SOPA/PIPA, and they go way past anything I've seen discussed in the saner environs. Just thinking some of the stuff that seems inevitable if it's passed made me feel like I should line my Stetson with tin foil.

      Here's the seed question for the "What if" chain that bothers me most: What if other countries decide to follow suit?

      I think that's a reasonable question.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Here's the seed question for the "What if" chain that bothers me most: What if other countries decide to follow suit?

        I think that's a reasonable question.


        Paul
        What's the Internet version of a nuclear war?

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        • Profile picture of the author taskemann
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          What's the Internet version of a nuclear war?

          YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
          Haha! Good one John!
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          John,
          What's the Internet version of a nuclear war?
          One version would be the unleashing of a large percentage of the zombied computers in the larger botnets on some group of targets. A successful attack on the root servers would be fairly destructive, too. There are others, but they're all along similar lines.

          I was thinking more of a serious Balkanization. The Internet works as a mass communication tool because it largely lacks the political boundaries of realspace. Introduce political boundaries the way this sort of thing could encourage, and you're looking at a potentially rapid and destructive trend to isolationism.

          Online, that doesn't just mean "People here can't speak with people there." It also means a greater likelihood of localization of the networks. Or worse, the protocols.

          That doesn't require any conspiracy theory. Just a lot of people reacting to changing circumstances from a short-term mindset. Take away the incentive to cooperate and even the most mature people - or nations - can turn into childish screamers all too quickly.

          Once an "us versus them" mindset becomes accepted, it's only a matter of time before philosophical factions start to become destructively active. Of course, that's probably not far off now, but we're in a position to do something about it as long as we maintain the net as a commons. If we start parceling it out as regional fiefdoms, the ability to respond effectively to cyber attacks drops a lot.

          This isn't just an American issue. We have all got a lot at stake in maintaining the political neutrality of the network itself.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author DigitalBusker
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post


            That doesn't require any conspiracy theory. Just a lot of people reacting to changing circumstances from a short-term mindset. Take away the incentive to cooperate and even the most mature people - or nations - can turn into childish screamers all too quickly.

            Once an "us versus them" mindset becomes accepted, it's only a matter of time before philosophical factions start to become destructively active. Of course, that's probably not far off now, but we're in a position to do something about it as long as we maintain the net as a commons. If we start parceling it out as regional fiefdoms, the ability to respond effectively to cyber attacks drops a lot.

            This isn't just an American issue. We have all got a lot at stake in maintaining the political neutrality of the network itself.


            Paul
            This is a fundamental point, one worth re-iterating! There are powerful interests, mainly corporate ones with their political cronies who view the internet as Threat to their power and ability to control, not just people, but law-making that controls the people!

            We can see how the internet can be used to disrupt the progression of laws like SOPA which will have irritated the hell out of its sponsors. And it will not "die" for that reason. They won't simply go away.

            "They" still want to control the internet, IF they can. You IM'ers know first hand how it can be turned to your advantage to provide you with an income. Should come as no real surprise to discover "some" want to use it to provide them with power or control. If they can turn the internet into their own legal global monopoly, just think of the income potential!

            The Arab Spring movements brought down whole countries. People who have held power for years using their country's Legal, Academic, Business and Political institutions now see the internet as an emerging threat to those cozy, reliable ways of controlling people. And SOPA is "in your face" evidence of how they intend to bring the internet to heel. If SOPA does not succeed today, I promise you this, they will be back tomorrow and the day after with something else. They don't stop, ever.
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            • Profile picture of the author SlicedGenius
              If you want to join in the fight, but can't quite bring yourself to black out your site - I heard about this WordPress plugin which adds a minimal corner ribbon to your site (links through to the main American Censorship site for more info)

              WordPress › Stop SOPA Ribbon « WordPress Plugins
              Signature
              Hot Topics PLR Pack - Get five high quality, exclusive reports on some of the hottest topics in IM. Complete with squeeze pages and e-covers.
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Signature
      Screw You, NameCheap!
      $1 Off NameSilo Domain Coupons:

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  • Profile picture of the author washout
    Wow, that just goes to show the power of united people.
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  • Profile picture of the author renukoot
    Here is one Plugin for Normal Websites who wants to stands against SOPA

    Sopa Blackout

    This is what the web could look like under the Stop Online Piracy Act.

    Pledge - STOP SOPA
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    www.caressl.com - Upto 75% Discount on SSL Certificates & Website Scanner. If you don't find what you looking for, raise a support query and we will get you that SSL Certificate.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveBagasao
    Not that I'm for SOPA...I'm not for any kind of sensorship, especially online, but one of the reasons this came about is because of all the pirating, illegal downloads, and copyright violations going on.

    Now in our Government's typical fashion, they are going way overboard to solve a problem that laws are already in place for...and screw things up for all the honest people doing business online.

    For all those who excel in stealing and profiting from other people's content (and you know who you are)....A BIG THANKS!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    I don't believe anyone who has been paying attention can think SOPA is actually about stopping piracy.
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    The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

    ...A tachyon enters a bar.

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    • Profile picture of the author SteveBagasao
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      I don't believe anyone who has been paying attention can think SOPA is actually about stopping piracy.
      You're right, but that's the excuse they're using. If piracy wasn't a big problem to begin with, then they could not use it as their "in."
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by SteveBagasao View Post

        You're right, but that's the excuse they're using. If piracy wasn't a big problem to begin with, then they could not use it as their "in."

        Great point, although I really believe that if it weren't this excuse, it would be another.

        This is using shotguns to kill mosquitoes.



        It will eventually pass, in one form or another, under one name or another... Just as the Federal Reserve was born despite the many, many people who warned against it. We're playing a game of Space Invaders.
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        The bartender says: "We don't serve faster-than-light particles here."

        ...A tachyon enters a bar.

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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I'm not sure anyone has mentioned that Wikipedia is blacking out in protest.

    Seems a pretty massive statement for such a massive website, one of the biggest in the world.

    English Wikipedia anti-SOPA blackout - Wikimedia Foundation

    Now they are non-profit as far as I understand so I can't see any of the for-profit big guns blacking out (google, Facebook, yahoo), but you never know.

    Oops just noticked this, Google will not blackout, but they are joining the chorus as well:

    Google joins SOPA protest, sans blackout - Kim Hart - POLITICO.com

    We'll see what happens...
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  • Profile picture of the author DigitalBusker
    Heard David Gerrard earlier today, (BBCRadio4 "PM" programmhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qskwe 39 mins into the show,) speaking on behalf of Wikipedia who are also going for a 24hr blackout of their English language websites.

    His analogy of SOPA was to ask us to imagine motor cars had developed quite quickly and had been around for only 15 years. And then that cars had become widespread, but that very occasionally cars had been used in criminal activity, like bank robbery. He suggested SOPA was becoming so silly, that it was akin to wanting to ban ALL cars because of their usefulness to criminals AND that if you questioned the mentality of the official approach that they would attempt to label you as someone in favour of bank robbery because you were against banning said cars!

    By way of "balance" the BBC also gave Sandra Aistars of Copyright Alliance the opportunity to speak in favour of SOPA and not surprisingly she believed that SOPA would not be draconian at all......

    But if you can't get Wikipedia tomorrow now you know
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    Even though I'm English, I don't know why you're all kicking up such a fuss about the Scots...

    SOPA | Homepage

    Tsk...

    Steve
    Signature

    Not promoting right now

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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Fullman
    New to this thread...but isn't this 'SOPA/PIPA' thing an entirely 'USA' proposal?

    Let's face it, no-one's gonna shut anything down, and life will carry on.

    The internet isn't 'owned' by anyone...and you ain't about to be turned into a nanny state.

    Chill out
    Signature

    Not promoting right now

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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

      New to this thread...but isn't this 'SOPA/PIPA' thing an entirely 'USA' proposal?
      Yes.

      Where do most of your buyers come from?
      Where are most of your sites hosted?
      Where are most of the sites you visit hosted/owned?

      SOPA is a USA proposal but has global e(a)ffects.

      -g
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      For those who don't know it yet -- there is a third bill called OPEN. I have not read the entirety, but what I have read is almost a duplicate of SOPA. Paul Myers is right - they are going to bring it back until they can move it in right under our noses while we are paying attention to the more publicized versions of the bill.

      Add OPEN to your blackout text along with SOPA and PIPA.

      Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

      New to this thread...but isn't this 'SOPA/PIPA' thing an entirely 'USA' proposal?

      Let's face it, no-one's gonna shut anything down, and life will carry on.

      The internet isn't 'owned' by anyone...and you ain't about to be turned into a nanny state.

      Chill out
      And Stephen? It targets non-domestic websites. That's YOU, buddy.
      Signature

      Sal
      When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
      Beyond the Path

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    • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Steven Fullman View Post

      New to this thread...but isn't this 'SOPA/PIPA' thing an entirely 'USA' proposal?

      Let's face it, no-one's gonna shut anything down, and life will carry on.

      The internet isn't 'owned' by anyone...and you ain't about to be turned into a nanny state.

      Chill out
      Richard O'Dwyer says hi.

      And for the record, it's too late.....we already ARE a nanny state.
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  • Profile picture of the author JerrickYeoh
    These are the 18 websites that will black out to protest sopa.
    Imgur
    Tor Project
    Miro
    iSchool at Syracuse University
    Oreilly.com
    Wikipedia
    Reddit
    Mozilla
    WordPress.org
    icanhazCheezburger Network
    MoveOn.org
    Good Old Games
    TwitPic
    Minecraft
    Free Press
    Mojang
    XDA Developers
    Destructoid
    Good.is


    Check out this how Google Home Page Protest against SOPA.
    Google to Use Homepage to Protest SOPA on Wednesday
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  • Profile picture of the author quickregister
    Awareness works and action works. Sopa and PIPA suck. They are the first step to the government completely controlling the freeest form of communication that has ever existed. Internet freedom has allowed revolutions to take place.

    We as internet marketers have a lot of power to raise awareness about internet censorship. This forum would probably get shut down if these bills pass.

    Do you have a list? Most of us marketers do. Imagine if all of us mailed our lists asking people to contact their politicians about these draconian bills?

    How about if we treated it like a "launch?"

    I am mailing my 200k list now.

    Look what happened with the Godaddy boycott. It worked Godaddy changed their position on these bills.

    Everybody should stop "marketing" for a few seconds and take time to send an email to our lists encouraging people to speak out against these bills. If enough complain they will hear us.

    I wrote an article about 5 Things Internet Marketers Can Do To Fight Internet Censorship.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/articles...ml#post5445172

    I don't know about you but I do not want to be a slave. Up to you.
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    I'm impressed and pleased that Wikipedia will be blacked out in protest, but I think it's really got to be Google, Facebook or Twitter doing this for real impact.

    Come on Zuckerberg, time to use some of your power.


    Andrew
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