I can't understand how people will promote scam products...

I would think to say promoting "anything" to be a scam is a bit extreme, as there are many quality products and items I have purchased and used online that I would great recommend and even re-purchase due to their quality.

Products like those I can see, and usually do see, having a high amount of affiliates and converting very well due to word of mouth...

I havent done the email submit promotion you method with CPA offers, I was more referring to low quality information products with blatant false promotion...

Might just be me though, I dunno.

That was kind of a silly remark. Thousands of very legitimate companies are promoting their products online - just go in at Commission Junction and check what big players are represented there! Use your head before posting.

That's a pretty big brush you got there... NOT everything online is a scam. You really need to change your thinking about the internet and marketing on the internet.

For instance, I wrote a book to protect children from scrupulous child care providers and sub-standard daycare's. My information is NOT a scam no matter which way you look at it.

Mike Hill

Most ridiculous exaggeration of the year!


As for the original question:
1. Many people promote things without looking at the product.
2. Some people don't care as long as the item sells.
3. They may have checked out the product and thought it was good. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone agrees, and the word "scam" is way overused (see quote above).

I agree with you on this. There are so MANY rip-off artists out there trying to grab other peoples hard earned $$ it sickens me. An Internet user must be savy! Buyer beware

I wish that were true! There are very underhanded people who can, and do, game the system for years. Just look at Madoff, for example. Any educated person can look at the plethora of "get a free XBox - just sign up for these FREE deals" or "I got my 12,000 stimulus check from Obama - just send me $1.99 to find out how I did it!!!" ads and realize that they are scams, yet for some reason people keep falling for them since they stay in business. I don't understand how these companies make enough money to pay themselves, let alone hire employees.

BTW those Obama stimulus ads on Facebook.... there are several different people running them, yet they all show the exact same check. I bet somebody is getting rich selling them pictures of checks and the business outline...

I agree. The best way to promote a product, is buy it, test it out. If you belive in it then promote it. How can anyone promote a product they've never used. Granted you an't buy everything but be selective. If that product will help you and your business, then buy it used it and then promote it. In order to sell a product convincely, you must have some experience with it.

WOW, you are telling the true of ClickBank products.....
But the main point is, we need money, and customer need dream or hope.
That why the majority of the high-selling products is selling hope or dream but scam.

Off topic, but I went to school with Eugenia Katsoudas. Is there a familial connection? OH, and yes, many people will do anything for money. Look at those gas mods a few months back. Doing that would void your car's warrantee and who knows what else?

TomG.

just my .02 worth balderdash. You can just as easily purchase the product and verify that it is worth having your name associated with it before promoting as you can just pick something and not care as long as you get your commission. I have been around the block a few times in this world and basically what I have witnessed in people (generally speaking) is greed.

I will admit that I have come into contact with some IMers with integrity but judging from my in box they are far and few in between.

You actually think those who "makes money" promting less than bad products, cant put fold on their table. Most can, no doubt about it.

I'd say it was probably due to naming specific people / books / vendors. If you just write a generic gnol on how it's bad but don't name and products specifically it should have been alright.

Most forums and companies have a no vendor verdicts rule, which means you can talk about things being bad, but you can't name specific companies / people or the forums / website could get sued by them for false allegations.

Hey digga45,

I'm not a fan of buying into any opportunities. I believe you should only promote as an affiliate what you've found useful as a customer. If you believe in it, it's much easier to give an effective recommendation.

There are a ton of so called short cuts for sale. Looking for long-term success? Build your own niche content sites that bring in multiple streams of income. You can't build em in a day though.

I finally started making money when I stopped wasting it on this op n' that, and began building my own sites.

Best of luck!

Sorry you feel so bad about the stuff... but I have to agree with some of the other dudes in the forum, it's about keeping at it. If you stop now, halfway through a project, that's yet another Million you won't ever make.

I'm not going to defend my products as lots of folks (who use them consistently) get great results, but I will defend the idea of something I do being a "scam".

Here's my general rule: If it doesn't work I won't sell it.

I get your frustration. Seriously. I used to be there! But it was because I kept at it and kept pushing that I was able to succeed.

More importantly... you should take a closer look at everything. The method you described up there is NOT part of my program.

You may have gotten MSS confused with another dudes stuff. In fact, if you had read the first PDF in module I you would have known I strongly suggest new IMers NOT spend money on domains and hosting until they learn the bare-bone basics.

ClickBank marketing is basically the entry point to the whole game as 99% of the research is already done for you.

You may also want to listen to that MP3 in there called "Don'tQuitOrI'llEatYou". It'll directly address what you're feeling right now.

Hope that helps!

And yea, if you want to dump the product and do something else you always can. (That's why I run it through Clickbank But whatever you chose to do the only advice I can give is to stick with it.

This stuff works. I'm living proof of that.

But it only works if YOU work it... and keep working it.

Jonny

I've never saw Johnny's products, but I don't see anything wrong with the advice he
gave you.

He's not the first person to think of it or do it, but neither is anybody's stuff most of the
time.

INCLUDING MINE.

He's just teaching what has worked for him.

I do the same thing.

Not defending him at all, just stating that the info he gave you isn't bullshit.

Oh and about it taking you "a whole day" to build your website - Are you complaining?

Just wondering.

- Jason

Is that the only thing that was taught in that product? AND is that EXACTLY the way they described it or is that the way you interpreted it?

And, to answer your question... NO I haven't reviewed that one yet.

Mike Hill

PS. At least you responded with more than a quick one or two liner this time. Judging by your other posts in other threads I might have confused you with someone just trying to increase their post count just to get a sig line going...

NO NO NO NO NO!

You should not feel better about doing something you know is wrong.

For God's sake, is it really that difficult to have morals? Don't let someone else talk you out of what you KNOW is right!

It fascinates me how people just drop their morals on the internet. You wouldn't walk into a bookstore and swipe a CD, but most people (including me) have music they have gathered illegally.

I'm not necessarily trying to take the high and mighty road here (obviously), but just saying that YOU have to evaluate and live with the consequences of your actions, not just to you, but to others.

Therefore, just because someone tells you it's okay to promote crap, doesn't MAKE it okay.

In regards to the OP:

You have ethics and morals. That makes you weird.

Don't ever let go of them.

-Dan

Yes, it is sad some people do things like these just to earn quick cash. They might be thinking that as long as they're earning tons of money promoting scams they're on the right track.

Rafael

I'll clear this up for you Dan, and defend Jonny on this one. No, it's not spam. Jonny does not teach the sending of spam at all. I had an earier post on my blog entitled "To Spam or Not To Spam" which kinda is saying that it's not really spam, but I'm gonna call it that anyway. I understand the confusion. I went back to my blog and put quotes around all of the words spam where it's not really spam.

I'll make sure that's cleared up because I don't want to associate Jonny Andrews with the teaching of sending spam at all. Sorry Jonny, I'll make sure that's all cleared up in my blog.

You have pretty much nailed it. I don't agree with it but you have a lot of info telling new marketers to go to clickbank, choose a product, and promote it.

They don't tell them to make sure it is a good product just to promote.

The new marketer starts making money and starts to not care as long as the checks come in.

As for the articles, marketers are advised to write so many articles a day that they grab a bunch of plr articles and most wont even rewrite them.

It is only through time and an increasing number of ethical marketers that the unethical will disappear.

It is the unethical marketers that have many convinced that we are not in a true industry but a pyramid scheme run by lazy people that don't want to work.

It is up to us to change this perception by being honest and ethical with our customers.

Hi guy,
You want to know the best site for affiliate links?
Aren't you advertising a video tutorial that teaches EVERYTHING you need to know about internet marketing?
Oh the irony - perfect for this thread.

Usually they rationalize that what they are doing is okay.

For example, "I only steal from people who can afford it" or "I need the money more than them" or "If they're stupid enough to fall for it they don't deserve their money".

Sad but true.

-Dan

How to calculate the refund?

Yeah. Keep in mind I'm weird, tho. I don't shop at brick and mortar stores if I get a salesman who is the slightest bit pushy. To me, products should sell themselves. I don't need a commission-driven douchebag to tell me how awesome I look in a $400 dress shirt when I can get shirts that fit better at H&M for $40 or less (tapered fit ftw!!!).

Same applies online. I do insane amounts of research and testing before I buy anything. I don't need a 1,000,000px long landing page to tell me that "the FBI/gov't/secret ninja society doesn't even want these secrets released - that's how good of a deal you're getting! - but only if you order in the next 15 minutes!" because that just SCREAMS bullshit.

Now, I am not arguing that such techniques don't work. If they were ineffective, people wouldn't use them. So obviously they work, and people will keep using them until something better comes along.

The overall feeling I get is that people are selling shitty products with convincing sales pages.

The Dog Training book was likely written by someone who read a wiki article, saw a dog on tv, and read a few shitty 6th grader articles on eza and pieced it together, not by a breeder or master trainer with 20 years experience.

The Forex robots... well yeah you know about those. And if they did work, they sure as shit wouldn't be for sale (I know I wouldn't sell my holy grail system if I had one).

The "zomg lose weight now super secret workout program" program certainly wasn't written by anyone who has contributed anything significant to the field, but the glossy before and after (photoshop enhanced photos) will sure sell it, especially for $37 (strikethrough) I mean $27!!!

Again, I'm not saying they don't work. But many sales letters don't really give much info up front. They're long, and they hint at the secrets of the universe (or at least the product, unless you're on the landing page for some metaphysical product, which I actually found a couple of last night, lol).

<elitist prick>

Look, for 99% of them, I can't help but think "only an idiot would buy this." I feel like they're insulting to the reader, and I see a greasy used car salesman sitting on the other side of them.

I'm trying to find some happy medium where I wouldn't feel like a scam artist or sleaze ball promoting products online.

</elitist prick>

I know exactly how business works.

You know I think part of my problem is that I abide by the golden rule too much. For example, I'm analytical and I like to do all my own research. I usually shut down salesmen IRL as soon as they make an outlandish claim (which I can identify because I usually know more about the product they're selling than they do before I even walk in the store) or attempt to be even the slightest bit pushy. Salesmen will say ANYTHING to get a commission, so I don't let them affect me at all; they're not trying to get me the best deal; they're trying to make themselves some money. Therefore, they do not have my best interest in mind and therefore they are a tainted source of information. When I buy a product, it's because objectively that product is better than its competitors or fills some need that I currently have; it will NOT be because someone schoozed their way into my good graces or smooth talked me into buying something. Salesmen hate me. I'd tell some stories about embarassing some salesmen who I caught lying during their presentation (and called them on it, because as far as I'm concerned anyone who uses anything other than objective truth to sell a product is a bullshitting scam artist) but my posts are already long enough as they are.

I assume because that is how I operate, that that is how everyone else wants to operate as well.

But that's not accurate.

Most people want to be told what to buy and want to feel good buying it, even if they're buying a shitty product. Most people are idiots.

I'm not sure how I feel morally and ethically about taking money from idiots for inferior quality products.

Agreed 100%. Man, getting promoted on Oprah is like the golden ticket to infinite book sales!

I bet IBM's emails don't look like this:

That kind of email is like a litmus test for idiots. Smart people stop reading after 5 seconds. Idiots are like "zomg... oh noes i r special i better buy this super secret product!!! i'm so lucky to be on teh super secret email lists!!!!!"

Yeah you've basically got it. If a profitable black box system existed, the quants at hedge funds who are smarter than us, have more financial resources and more computing power than us already would have found it, and they sure as hell wouldn't be selling it for $197 limited time offer!!

No clue who that is. Want to forward me the document you're referring to, tho?

There's no value in most products I've seen online. I feel bad for the idiot who spends $3k on a Forex robot, doesn't make money, and then is so convinced that the system works that he wastes even more time trying to figure out what he's doing wrong. Or the chick who buys diet pills, they don't work, so she doubles up the dose (remember, she's an idiot) and ends up in the E.R.


Anyway I'm not trying to be on a moral high horse or anything, I just think that I haven't found an affiliate product that I would feel good about myself promoting yet.

I agree, I haven't seen any of Pauls posts that weren't worth reading.

Wrong.

Let's take an example - if you have cancer, and I sell you tapwater, but tell you it's a cure for your cancer, and you believe me and buy the stuff, then that's okay?

I've sold the stuff I'm promoting, and I've made money. You've still got cancer, but hey, who cares? I made money!

Seriously, people, think before you post. Even better, think full stop.

The last thing we need is more of this stupidity.

To do this, whoever is evaulating it has to have experience and understanding of the field of the product. More often than not, we buy things we DON'T know anything about. Pretty hard to judge stuff when you have no idea whether the claims on the salespage are credible or not, no?

Ignorance isn't a crime. We all make mistakes sometimes, despite our best interests.

-Dan

Dan, I'm going to assume there's a vowel missing in that last word.

I saw this thread when it started, and didn't bother reading it. I knew where it was going to go, just like nearly every other thread like it has for the past 10 years here. But, Melkor pinged my blog with it, so...

Here's the routine:

Reasonable question is asked or position posed. Ethics are involved. Every twit with a self-righteous attitude and a single, half-working synapse crawls out of the woodwork making absolutist statements. People with IQs above freezing (Fahrenheit, mind you) try to explain the concept of "variations" to them.

Waste of time. They don't care about reality. They care about being Right, regardless of the non-existent basis for their "factual statements."

Screw 'em. Stick to dealing with sentient life forms.

This is the same flow as the argument over how long an ebook should be. You have people who say they're all scams, some who claim it's all "stale, rehashed crap," and some who swear that anything for sale is a con and anything free is worthless.

Oh... And the jackasses who say that anything over 40 pages is useless fluff, regardless of the topic or the difficulty of the subject matter.

If you're going to reply to these people, do it with the silent readers in mind. The people who aren't yelling and ranting about how their view is the only valid one. They might learn something useful and gain perspective from your comments.

Do not discuss these things with the idea that you're educating the person to whom you're responding. That's a bonus if it happens, but the effort is usually a one-way ticket to Goonyville, and a new canvas wardrobe. (Extra-long sleeves required.)


Paul