The "Official" comment thread for the WF SOPA blackout

246 replies
Okay. We've been re-opened less than an hour and there have already been a dozen threads on the WF blackout of the Warrior Forum. Let's keep all the comments on that in a single thread.

Fire away, folks. The good, the bad, and the ugly.


Paul
#blackout #comment #official #sopa #thread
  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    My response - good on Allen and who ever else had a hand in the decision. This isn't some tiny deal - and it's legislation like this that can affect us (small, internet exclusive businesses) the most.

    Got a competitor or customer who wants to shut you down? Just bitch to Uncle Sam how they stole some graphics and plastered it on their website - bam, say goodbye to your competitor.

    Yeah. That's the madness of this bill and I can't understand why ANYONE would support such a worthless, unconstitutional waste of paper.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Centurian
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      My response - good on Allen and who ever else had a hand in the decision. This isn't some tiny deal - and it's legislation like this that can affect us (small, internet exclusive businesses) the most.

      Got a competitor or customer who wants to shut you done? Just bitch to uncle Sam how they stole some graphics and plastered it on their website - bam, say goodbye to your competitor.

      Yeah. That's the madness of this bill and I can't understand why ANYONE would support such a worthless, unconstitutional waste of paper.

      Rob
      Well said Rob. First thing I did this morning was to contact my rep and senators and encourage them to kill the stupid thing dead!

      Wake up America! In case you didn't notice (duh), your country is under siege from enemies foreign AND domestic.

      SOPA and PIPA are simply a brazen attempt to give the feds the right to silence whoever they want. Think dealing with PayPal or Craigslist is bad? Just wait until the bureaucrats get the right to shut down whoever they want online.

      They are salivating to get their grubby little hands on more of the internet controls. The current occupant of the White House has written executive orders for kill switch authority.

      They're seizing domains (private leasehold property) now without a trial. Your online business and freedom of speech is DOA. If you haven't already, contact your representatives now.
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    • Profile picture of the author THK
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      ...
      Got a competitor or customer who wants to shut you down? Just bitch to Uncle Sam how they stole some graphics and plastered it on their website - bam, say goodbye to your competitor.

      Yeah. That's the madness of this bill and I can't understand why ANYONE would support such a worthless, unconstitutional waste of paper.

      Rob
      I was thinking along the same lines, but maybe it won't be that easy. If it is, on January 25th I am launching the wso- "How to dominate any niche you want with one simple technique" Keep an eye out for that ...lol

      In seriousness, I don't think all these protests will make any difference (even though I hope it does). It is like the entire US government is having a midlife crisis and desperate to get some attention with these new legislation and laws, none of which make any sense.

      Oh well, I will just wait and see when my people follow suit. I am sure they will embarrass me pretty soon.

      Tanvir
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    • Profile picture of the author atvking
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post


      Got a competitor or customer who wants to shut you down? Just bitch to Uncle Sam how they stole some graphics and plastered it on their website - bam, say goodbye to your competitor.

      Yeah. That's the madness of this bill and I can't understand why ANYONE would support such a worthless, unconstitutional waste of paper.

      Rob
      Sorry if this seems like a stupid question but isn't perjury a crime? Am I missing something?

      Not trying to troll/argue just genuinely interested in why people are so against this, being that there is no way to file an anon complaint and that you have to stand behind your false complaint with your name and company. You also have to have some proof, no court in the world will act without proof.

      Thanks for any info.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by atvking View Post

        Sorry if this seems like a stupid question but isn't perjury a crime? Am I missing something?

        You also have to have some proof, no court in the world will act without proof.

        Thanks for any info.
        With SOPA, while an "investigation" is going on, the site in question would be pulled offline. No due process at all.

        And if the AG decides that you did violate copyright, your site would be added to the "blacklist" and you would be done.

        As far a perjury goes, I suppose that would be your argument. And even if you won, it would take a LOT of hours and litigation, money, etc. to get you out of the hole.

        Of course, my examples are just some of the craziness that could happen.

        The recording/movie industry is notorious for wanting to control everything. They HATE second hand sales. And not just them...

        Monster Cable has labeled ebay, craigslist, costco, fat wallet and other sites that give deals on used Monster Cables "rogue sites". They want them shut down.

        Why? Because those sites sell their product but don't give Monster Cable a cut, because they are used equipment. They only want you to buy their NEW, expensive equipment. And from a business standpoint, I understand that.

        But unfortunately for them, we have every right to buy/sell used and the original manufacturer doesn't get a cut. So instead, let's invent laws that can take down sites like craigslist, ebay, Google, because they "facilitate piracy", when instead, it's about controlling all sales channels (including the used market), forcing people to buy new.

        Another thing these companies hate: reviews and access to information about their products.

        I wouldn't be surprised if SOPA, if it were passed as is, would be attempted to be used against legitimate sites that contain product reviews. Post a negative review about a product? Suddenly find your site down. All it would take is posting a quote from the product/studio's website and suddenly you are violating copyright.

        Instead of adopting, testing, and utilizing the internet to grow their businesses, they fight it. It was "easy" back in the day. No such thing as easy to access reviews, consumers who paid 20 bucks for 10 crappy songs or crap products. The internet has empowered people and certain organizations don't like that.

        Anyway, that's my rant.

        Rob
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        • Profile picture of the author atvking
          Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

          With SOPA, while an "investigation" is going on, the site in question would be pulled offline. No due process at all.

          And if the AG decides that you did violate copyright, your site would be added to the "blacklist" and you would be done.
          To file a SOPA complaint you have to at least have some sort of proof? You cant just say "take facebook down investigate later"?

          Not arguing at all just wondering how one could get the authorities to take down a site with no proof. There is a process that has to be followed and this process involves the complaining party actually presenting some sort of proof that:

          1) they own rights to material X
          2) proof that site Y is indeed using material X (a link perhaps?)

          Does not sound like a realistic scenario to me?

          But this is just my opinion and I'm not very informed, I just find it hard to believe that any court/judge/institution would actually take action with no proof at all??
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          • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
            Originally Posted by atvking View Post

            To file a SOPA complaint you have to at least have some sort of proof? You cant just say "take facebook down investigate later"?

            But this is just my opinion and I'm not very informed, I just find it hard to believe that any court/judge/institution would actually take action with no proof at all??
            If you read the sopa bill, that's exactly what can and would happen. Fire first, ask questions later. No due process. None.

            Rob
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            • Profile picture of the author atvking
              Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

              If you read the sopa bill, that's exactly what can and would happen. Fire first, ask questions later. No due process. None.

              Rob
              Just sounds so unreal...the Attorney general taking action against somebody without any proof being presented to them...I don't know much about this legal stuff but I was always under the impression that you actually needed proof to take legal action...
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              • Profile picture of the author solado
                Originally Posted by atvking View Post

                Just sounds so unreal...the Attorney general taking action against somebody without any proof being presented to them...I don't know much about this legal stuff but I was always under the impression that you actually needed proof to take legal action...
                Not true, it is explicitly written in the Bill that they will alter the DNS servers which in turn will cut off access to websites. Not just the website doing the copyright infringement but also other websites will be un-accessible.

                think of it this way, you are hosting your website on a shared server. One person decides to upload some copyright material from a movie, this could be five seconds for 1 min if someone reports this person for copyright infringement then your website is liable to be penalised as well. As no doubt the DNS server your website and the copyright infringement site will use the same.

                Welcome to the modern-day world, where the government wants more control over your freedom. Do you not find it weird that this censorship has begun ever since the Internet started to show government's true colours?
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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                  Ken,
                  But it seems like you guys want to have your cake and eat it too, and don't believe anything at all should be done.
                  Wait... We think the current proposal is overboard, so we don't really want anything to be done about the problem? Exactly how do you get from A to B in that thought process?

                  This is a complicated problem, or there wouldn't be any discussion in the Congress about how to solve it. The obvious solution is to shut down the sites that knowingly allow or actively promote piracy. The devil is, as always, in the details.

                  The primary problem is with the copyright regimes in certain countries which make them hospitable hosts to pirate sites. Most notably, India, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Pakistan, Iran, and Russia. Turkey and the Netherlands aren't all that helpful in such matters, but they're not the worst.

                  With the exception if Iran, all of those countries are signatories to the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.

                  (Hong Kong is not listed as a signatory nation, but being under the governance of China one assumes it is a part of the established union.)

                  What we really need to do is get these countries to enforce their obligations under the treaty.
                  I asked last night, and I ask again - does ANYONE have ANY solutions for the rampant copyright violations, counterfeiting of goods, prescription medication, and piracy going on....other than blacking out your website?
                  Nonsense question. The blackouts were not intended to do anything to stop piracy. They were intended to help prevent the passage of legislation that would severely damage the Internet, and the use of same by individuals and businesses around the world.

                  That seems a rather obvious difference, to me.


                  Paul

                  PS: Yes, I have read the legislation. My primary concern is in the definitions beginning at section 103(a)(1)(B) and continuing to the start of 103(a)(2). The whole bill is a disaster, but that's where the vagueness I've mentioned resides.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                    Unless we inundate those politicians they will push it though. So organizing an email campaign to your Representative and Senators in Washington DC would be more productive in my opinion.
                    Ummm... Tim? What exactly did you think the purpose was behind closing the site down and posting that notice?


                    Paul
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                    • Profile picture of the author timpears
                      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                      Ummm... Tim? What exactly did you think the purpose was behind closing the site down and posting that notice?


                      Paul
                      Do you really think that any of those SOBs even noticed the site was down? I doubt they even know this site exists, unless they have an interest in IM. I am sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but that was like pissing into the wind. I understand why it was done, but I don't think it was productive.

                      I think it would do more good to follow the post I made in this thread.
                      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-can-work.html

                      That will get their attention. And hopefully someone will give them the information that will convince them what they are trying to do is wrong.
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                      Tim Pears

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                      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                        Originally Posted by timpears View Post

                        Do you really think that any of those SOBs even noticed the site was down? I doubt they even know this site exists, unless they have an interest in IM. I am sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but that was like pissing into the wind. I understand why it was done, but I don't think it was productive.

                        That will get their attention. And hopefully someone will give them the information that will convince them what they are trying to do is wrong.
                        Tim, if the WF blackout caused several hundred (and hopefully several thousand) warriors to contact their senators and congressmen/women to protest SOPA and PIPA (not to mention email their lists and post on their blogs, etc, telling their readers to contact them as well), don't you think THAT might have been quite productive??

                        Edit to add: Paul, we must have been posting at the same time!
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                  • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
                    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                    Ken,Wait... We think the current proposal is overboard, so we don't really want anything to be done about the problem? Exactly how do you get from A to B in that thought process?

                    This is a complicated problem, or there wouldn't be any discussion in the Congress about how to solve it. The obvious solution is to shut down the sites that knowingly allow or actively promote piracy. The devil is, as always, in the details.

                    The primary problem is with the copyright regimes in certain countries which make them hospitable hosts to pirate sites. Most notably, India, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia, Pakistan, Iran, and Russia. Turkey and the Netherlands aren't all that helpful in such matters, but they're not the worst.

                    With the exception if Iran, all of those countries are signatories to the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works.

                    (Hong Kong is not listed as a signatory nation, but being under the governance of China one assumes it is a part of the established union.)

                    What we really need to do is get these countries to enforce their obligations under the treaty.Nonsense question. The blackouts were not intended to do anything to stop piracy. They were intended to help prevent the passage of legislation that would severely damage the Internet, and the use of same by individuals and businesses around the world.

                    That seems a rather obvious difference, to me.


                    Paul

                    PS: Yes, I have read the legislation. My primary concern is in the definitions beginning at section 103(a)(1)(B) and continuing to the start of 103(a)(2). The whole bill is a disaster, but that's where the vagueness I've mentioned resides.
                    Hi Paul,

                    I got from A to B by the fact that I haven't read a SINGLE solution put forth to actually address the issues the FLAWED SOPA law attempts to address.

                    I didn't say the blackouts were intended to do anything to stop piracy - they weren't - and they surely DIDN'T.

                    No matter how many 'what-if' scenarios are put forth, or how many people are scared their favorite website will go offline, no many how many phone calls, no matter how many blackouts, no matter how many emails or Facebook likes this opposition to SOPA produces, how does that solve anything at all related to piracy or other concerns?

                    The problems this bill attempts to address are real. I don't think there is any debate on that point.

                    I'm from the opinion that if people (myself included) are going to bitch about anything, especially politics and money - they need to offer some kind of alternative to what they are protesting.

                    (OccupyWallStreet comes to mind - I STILL don't know what SOLUTIONS they have for the problems they are protesting. Go back to the barter and trade system?)

                    To date, I haven't seen those alternatives, don't know if they exist, and nobody is talking about them.

                    Respectfully,
                    Ken
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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                      Tim,
                      Do you really think that any of those SOBs even noticed the site was down? I doubt they even know this site exists, unless they have an interest in IM. I am sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but that was like pissing into the wind. I understand why it was done, but I don't think it was productive.
                      Are you deliberately missing the point?

                      A lot of people emailed, phoned and sent letters to their Congresscritters yesterday because of that shutdown and the notice that was posted. No, the reps don't care about this site, but they care about those contacts from our members.

                      Ken,
                      I got from A to B by the fact that I haven't read a SINGLE solution put forth to actually address the issues the FLAWED SOPA law attempts to address.
                      I just put forth one suggestion: Get signatory countries to enforce the Berne Convention.

                      Another is simpler: Go after the sites through their hosts. This works in some countries if there are enough reports.

                      There are sites in places we can't do anything about, but passing laws that severely damage the Internet's basic infrastructure isn't the way to attack that problem. It just adds new problems to the ones already existing.
                      I'm from the opinion that if people (myself included) are going to bitch about anything, especially politics and money - they need to offer some kind of alternative to what they are protesting.
                      If someone threatens to shoot you because they're on drugs, the appropriate first action is NOT to try and talk them into rehab. First, you stop them from shooting you.


                      Paul
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                      • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers

                        There are sites in places we can't do anything about...
                        Paul
                        That's the problem.

                        The countries WONT sign the treaty, and the hosts in foreign countries WONT shut down the websites. So now what?

                        I OPPOSE the SOPA bill, but would SUPPORT a limited bill that actually does something about internet piracy and counterfeiting.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                          Ken,
                          The countries WONT sign the treaty
                          Good grief, man. Did you not see above where I mentioned that, with the exception of Iran, all the major pirate havens already HAVE signed the treaty?

                          I could give you a quick and non-destructive solution that would seriously restrict piracy from such sites, at least for most users.

                          Here's how it would work: Start with the idea that a site must be seen by some responsible and well-trained group of evaluators to be delivering (or pointing to) a significant number of pirated files. Send the site contact address a notice that would be similar to a DMCA takedown notice. If they fail to remove the files within a specified time period, add them to a DNSBL, using the same technology that we currently use for email blocklists.

                          Such a system would do none of the infrastructure damage the SOPA proposals would. And it could easily be mirrored for use in as many countries by as many ISPs as wished to use it. That's bigger than a US-only blocking, and it's a cooperative venture that's more in the spirit of Internet culture.

                          Include some remedy for sites that are incorrectly blocked, and make it easy for copyright holders to report issues. A reasonable appeals process wouldn't be hard to come up with.

                          Here's the rub: It would require ridding the net of proxies, like Tor and Anonymizer and others.

                          Not an acceptable solution, privacy-wise.

                          It's also not a long-term solution for any but the most amateur sites, or sites used by the citizens of, and hosted within, a country that chooses not to adopt a more owner-friendly approach to copyright. But that's not a huge deal anyway, as you can buy the stuff at convenience stores in some of those countries, on CD.

                          The next move by the pirates would be to set up IP reflection, redirection and rotation systems to get past the DNSBL. Then they'd go to other ports and other technologies. They'd use systems much like the old Fidonet echo approach for localized nodes. They'd go to straight peer-to-peer systems for other things. And almost certainly technologies with which I am not familiar.

                          It's a technological arms race to solve a social problem. That NEVER works.

                          Just as it's always easier to destroy a thing than to build it, it is always easier to steal than to create. What is required is to make the risks unacceptably large compared to the perceived benefits. That is a social and political challenge.


                          Paul
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                          • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
                            Yes Paul, I've read everything you said sir.

                            You just posed a well thought out solution, then tore it down in the same post due to privacy concerns. So that wont work...

                            My biggest beef with SOPA isn't even SOPA at this point (since the bill will NOT be voted on at all, and that wasn't the result of site blackout protests since it was pulled before they even started) - its the non-alternative solutions by the sheeple and sites protesting it, who failed to mention that the bill wont even be put to a vote at this time.

                            Some people here think that the Government shouldn't be involved in any aspect of the internet - too late for that. The same people oppose paying taxes for goods sold on the internet, but it's ok if a brick and mortar has to pay the taxes for the same products.

                            I guess we just turn our heads on the piracy and counterfeiting and sleep well at night knowing we're not losing any money from it, and it's just liberal Hollywood millionaires who's products are stolen anyway, and keep our fingers crossed it never affects us.

                            With so many serious problems in the world like war, nuclear weapons, terrorism, abortion, crime, drugs, national debts, poverty, hunger, etc...it's just FUNNY to see so many sites band together against SOPA - but don't address the rest. A million innocent babies were killed in the USA last year alone. But that's not the issue - it's the 'innocent' websites who host pirated content and 'might' be shut down in some scaremonger scenario. Is that it?

                            When the economy collapses due to our 15 TRILLION dollar debt that we wont be able to pay for GENERATIONS to come(if ever?), SOPA wont even be an issue. Neither will piracy. Where is the outcry?

                            I for one hope the Gov steps in and takes some kind of action that we as individuals and companies cannot take on our own since we don't have the power. That 'action' is yet to be determined.
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                      • Profile picture of the author timpears
                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                        Tim,Are you deliberately missing the point?

                        A lot of people emailed, phoned and sent letters to their Congresscritters yesterday because of that shutdown and the notice that was posted. No, the reps don't care about this site, but they care about those contacts from our members.
                        If they did that, then it was worth while in my opinion. But this is the first I have heard of anyone speaking of this. So obviously I did miss the point.

                        My wife tells me that I am totally unobservant though, so that is not unusual.
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                      • Profile picture of the author CMartin
                        Originally Posted by timpears View Post

                        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                        Tim,Are you deliberately missing the point?

                        A lot of people emailed, phoned and sent letters to their Congresscritters yesterday because of that shutdown and the notice that was posted. No, the reps don't care about this site, but they care about those contacts from our members.
                        If they did that, then it was worth while in my opinion. But this is the first I have heard of anyone speaking of this. So obviously I did miss the point.
                        Tim,

                        According to Alexa traffic rank, this forum is ranked today:
                        - In US: 78
                        - Global: 143

                        Here's the link: Warriorforum.com Site Info

                        Due to the popularity of this forum, I'm quite sure *many* thousands of visitors saw the SOPA notice yesterday and some didn't care and others took action.

                        Closing the site down and posting the notice was a good decision and produced the desired effects.

                        ...

                        Paul, thanks also for your "What Does SOPA Mean to You?" great article.

                        Carlos
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                        • Profile picture of the author THK
                          Originally Posted by CMartin View Post

                          Tim,

                          According to Alexa traffic rank, this forum is ranked today:
                          - In US: 78
                          - Global: 143

                          Here's the link: Warriorforum.com Site Info
                          Quantcast says it is 24,379th site in the world. I don't think either of them is correct. Sites that are ranked that high are more likely to get visitors in millions.


                          Originally Posted by CMartin View Post

                          Due to the popularity of this forum, I'm quite sure *many* thousands of visitors saw the SOPA notice yesterday and some didn't care and others took action.

                          Closing the site down and posting the notice was a good decision and produced the desired effects.

                          ...

                          Paul, thanks also for your "What Does SOPA Mean to You?" great article.

                          Carlos
                          But I totally agree with this. People who frequent this forum are more interested in the subject and more likely to to do something about it. It was a brilliant idea. Those who didn't know or didn't care about SOPA, I think this protest changed some of those minds.

                          Tanvir
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Originally Posted by atvking View Post

                Just sounds so unreal...the Attorney general taking action against somebody without any proof being presented to them...I don't know much about this legal stuff but I was always under the impression that you actually needed proof to take legal action...
                Do you live in the US? How can you have missed the NDAA?

                It's legal now for them to grab you with no evidence of wrong-doing, throw you in jail without telling anyone, and hold you as long as they want without even pressing charges. They can hold you for the rest of your life if they so desire without even having a charge against you. You will not have a right to a lawyer. Your family may never find out where you went to. You just disappear. -- and YES - it is LEGAL for them to do this to you. It's called NDAA and it was signed into law just around the turn of the year.

                So much for "due process" -- for anything.
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      • Profile picture of the author Maraun
        Originally Posted by atvking View Post

        Sorry if this seems like a stupid question but isn't perjury a crime? Am I missing something?

        Not trying to troll/argue just genuinely interested in why people are so against this, being that there is no way to file an anon complaint and that you have to stand behind your false complaint with your name and company. You also have to have some proof, no court in the world will act without proof.

        Thanks for any info.
        Post link to Pirate Bay in comments on a post of your competitor's site. Then go to uncle sam. Yes, with SOPA and PIPA every website is responsible for ALL user submitted content. And for ALL content they link to. Linking to a legitimate site? Nice! What happens when the legitimate site get hacked and serves warez? YOU can be held responsible, because you linked to it.
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        • TED: Why SOPA is a bad idea - (in an easily explained and eloquent way...)

          Clay Shirky: Why SOPA is a bad idea | Video on TED.com
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        • Profile picture of the author atvking
          Originally Posted by Maraun View Post

          Post link to Pirate Bay in comments on a post of your competitor's site. Then go to uncle sam. Yes, with SOPA and PIPA every website is responsible for ALL user submitted content. And for ALL content they link to. Linking to a legitimate site? Nice! What happens when the legitimate site get hacked and serves warez? YOU can be held responsible, because you linked to it.
          The bill was clearly written and is dedicated against pirate websites, one link to pirate bay form an anon user does not really qualify you as a pirate website?
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    • Profile picture of the author billspaced
      Nothing else really needs to be said...

      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      My response - good on Allen and who ever else had a hand in the decision. This isn't some tiny deal - and it's legislation like this that can affect us (small, internet exclusive businesses) the most.

      Got a competitor or customer who wants to shut you down? Just bitch to Uncle Sam how they stole some graphics and plastered it on their website - bam, say goodbye to your competitor.

      Yeah. That's the madness of this bill and I can't understand why ANYONE would support such a worthless, unconstitutional waste of paper.

      Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Webkingseo
    It was very sure that as we opened we find lot of threads here on this Hot Subject.

    But you summarize all in one. Great....!!!!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author RyanLeonard
      I completely agree with the approach the WF took. In fact, they should have blacked it out for a week, piss some people off, encourage them to take action. Any of us with businesses online might as well kiss them good bye if these bills get passed... But worse than that, we can kiss free speech and freedom goodbye as well.

      Wake up America, wake up world.
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      • Profile picture of the author Pluty
        Well, said. We all should understand that this bill would take censorship to another level and invade our freedom of speech. I understand the reason why they want this bill. But I feel that there is another way that they can handle this situation.
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        • Profile picture of the author ERPLeadsWriter
          Originally Posted by newjerseycrown View Post

          Anonymous hit them right back. Unfortunately the sites they hit get 0 traffic
          Seeing as how I hate those guys just as much as I don't like where SOPA is heading, maybe it's high time we had both set on a collision course with each other.

          In other words, let's have them kill each other while we sit back and watch.

          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Despite that, and all the hyperbole this week, certain websites are unquestionably free from any concern about SOPA. Google. Wikipedia. Facebook. YouTube. Tumblr.

          They have thousands of copyright violations on any given day and still have zero risk of being shut-down.
          Isn't that because SOPA wasn't around? From what I read when this site shut down, SOPA is actually going to make shutting sites down faster by just needing a simple complaint to do so.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Ken,

            You're still not getting it. If the bill isn't voted on this time around, it won't be because of anything but public pressure. And, according to Smith, he's still going to push for a vote. Nothing is set in stone at this point.
            I guess we just turn our heads on the piracy and counterfeiting and sleep well at night knowing we're not losing any money from it, and it's just liberal Hollywood millionaires who's products are stolen anyway, and keep our fingers crossed it never affects us.
            I don't know who you think believes this, but it's not any of the product creators here. There are quite a few of us who've gone after the sites located in places we could get action taken, and gotten a number of them shut down.
            You just posed a well thought out solution, then tore it down in the same post due to privacy concerns. So that wont work...
            Every possible solution has similar challenges and unintended consequences.

            If you're looking for some 100% effective solution that doesn't have serious undesirable side effects, you clearly have no clue as to how difficult the problem is to solve. Every system on the net is used in legitimate ways and some that aren't so legitimate.

            How many channels do we take away from honest people to stop the crooks?

            ClueTime: You cannot and never will stop piracy completely. Period. The goal is to make enough of a dent that it doesn't cripple creators' incentives to create and innovate.
            With so many serious problems in the world like war, nuclear weapons, terrorism, abortion, crime, drugs, national debts, poverty, hunger, etc...it's just FUNNY to see so many sites band together against SOPA - but don't address the rest.
            And you know what the rest of us do about various social issues off this forum... how?

            Network threats are addressed by the people who share the risk, in the channels that are threatened. What we each choose to do in other ways isn't for anyone here to judge or assume.
            But that's not the issue - it's the 'innocent' websites who host pirated content and 'might' be shut down in some scaremonger scenario. Is that it?
            No-one in this discussion defended sites that knowingly host pirated content. No-one. In case you haven't been paying attention, defending piracy is nearly as close to an immediate banning offense as advocating email spamming.

            A few people are getting close to that in the thread about Megaupload being shut down. I think they may even be genuinely surprised when they find themselves locked out for a while.

            Brian,
            Take your statement about the "occasional comment" - what is occasional?
            I'd like to see something that more strictly defines the primary purpose standard than what I read in the definitions section I cited earlier.

            Of course, that ignores the technical damage resulting from the required responses, which are a whole other issue that makes the thing a non-starter for anyone familiar with the systems that make it all work.

            At any rate, ambiguity is never a good thing in an area in which one or more sides has a long record of extreme action. Both sides in this case have those histories. The RIAA/MPAA has just as strong a tendency to overreact as Anonymous & Co. And just as little belief in their own fallibility.

            Makes for lots of problems for people in the crossfire, and lots of money for the lawyers.


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            • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Ken,

              You're still not getting it. If the bill isn't voted on this time around, it won't be because of anything but public pressure. And, according to Smith, he's still going to push for a vote. Nothing is set in stone at this point.I don't know who you think believes this, but it's not any of the product creators here. There are quite a few of us who've gone after the sites located in places we could get action taken, and gotten a number of them shut down.Every possible solution has similar challenges and unintended consequences.

              If you're looking for some 100% effective solution that doesn't have serious undesirable side effects, you clearly have no clue as to how difficult the problem is to solve. Every system on the net is used in legitimate ways and some that aren't so legitimate.

              How many channels do we take away from honest people to stop the crooks?

              ClueTime: You cannot and never will stop piracy completely. Period. The goal is to make enough of a dent that it doesn't cripple creators' incentives to create and innovate.And you know what the rest of us do about various social issues off this forum... how?

              Network threats are addressed by the people who share the risk, in the channels that are threatened. What we each choose to do in other ways isn't for anyone here to judge or assume.No-one in this discussion defended sites that knowingly host pirated content. No-one. In case you haven't been paying attention, defending piracy is nearly as close to an immediate banning offense as advocating email spamming.

              A few people are getting close to that in the thread about Megaupload being shut down. I think they may even be genuinely surprised when they find themselves locked out for a while.
              Paul, just because I have another opinion, doesn't mean that I don't 'get it'. It doesn't mean my questions are 'nonsense'. It doesn't mean I don't have a clue. It doesn't mean I'm retarded.

              I don't know what you do in your spare time, maybe you do protest other issues, but lets not make it about 'you' - its not. Tell me what other issue the WF, Wiki, Google and others have blacked out for - maybe I missed it lol

              Threats to ban people or put them in a time out doesn't sound like free speech to me. I know this is a 'private forum', and free speech isn't a right here, but it's supposedly the outcry for this protest movement. That's ironic don't you think?

              I've noticed SEVERAL images here on the Warrior Forum that users clearly have no permission to use. Should these be reported? Some are avatars on this thread! lol Do you think that a random complaint by one person would get the WF shut down 'if this law was passed' as keeps getting stated in the hypothetical scaremonger scenarios?(even though it doesn't apply to USA websites). I don't believe it would, but maybe the images should be addressed anyway?

              People need to write their Congressman and tell them that they DO support a bill that would fight piracy, just not this one. That's what I told them weeks ago.
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              • Profile picture of the author HeySal
                Paul, just because I have another opinion, doesn't mean that I don't 'get it'. It doesn't mean my questions are 'nonsense'. It doesn't mean I don't have a clue. It doesn't mean I'm retarded.
                No, it is not necessarily so by any valid logic structure. It may still be apparently so, and still be a valid argument, however.

                I've noticed SEVERAL images here on the Warrior Forum that users clearly have no permission to use. Should these be reported? Some are avatars on this thread! lol Do you think that a random complaint by one person would get the WF shut down 'if this law was passed' as keeps getting stated in the hypothetical scaremonger scenarios?(even though it doesn't apply to USA websites).
                IF the power were there to do so, motivation to do so would be the only contingent. Motivation would most likely in this case consist of either financial gain or squelching unfavorable idiologies.

                People need to write their Congressman and tell them that they DO support a bill that would fight piracy, just not this one. That's what I told them weeks ago.
                But I DON'T support any bill such as this bill in any way shape or form. I feel there are better methods of dealing with this issue than government oversight. When I look at a bill I also look precedence. I look at continuums. Frankly - I've had all I want to see of this continuum. I don't want them writing then editing a bill just so that they can bring it back and stick crap back in it or build onto it at a later date -- that's how we lost habeas corpus.

                Under the circumstances of the protest, and the subsequent takedown of a site a day later without the passage of this bill - we have had a very direct statement made to us. Were you paying attention to that? What on earth was the FBI saying by choosing the day after a freedom of speech protest to takedown a website?

                Perhaps the fact that I've never heard of that website before so have no biases toward that site either way has kept me focus on the bigger issue while others argue whether the site "deserved it" or not. The fact that others are being distracted and busied arguing about the site in question instead of looking at the progression of events is extremely disturbing to me.

                The story the FBI gives is that they have been investigating the site for a year or two (I forget which - moot point, though). Why on earth, a day after one of the loudest reactions against a piece of legislation ever would they choose to bring that site down, even without the bill signed?

                Starting to get it yet?
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Just as an FYI... The only reason for putting this into a single thread is to keep the discussions from taking over the entire front page. It is NOT meant to take anything away from the useful comments already made on the subject.

      Now, a couple of questions have come up that I think warrant public answers.

      Quentin asked why we didn't leave a way for people to get into the site after reading the call to action. A reasonable question, I think, and one that more than a few people asked me privately. The answer is simple:

      If we'd left a "back door" to get in, people would have gotten involved in the conversations and done nothing about the problem. That would have rendered the whole thing moot. An empty gesture.

      Several people commented that we didn't let the WSO sellers know in advance. Also a legitimate concern.

      First things first: If anyone sent an email promoting a WSO more than 2 hours after the blackout started, they have no-one to blame but themselves. You should always check to make sure a site is accessible, especially in an environment where offers can be shut down, before mailing about it.

      The difficult part is mailing every seller. Logistically, that would entail doing a mass-mailing to the entire membership. After all this time, there would have been a ton of addresses that have gone bad, and that would likely have resulted in a lot of bounces. The challenge there is that the mail would have started being blocked pretty quickly.

      The probable blocks would have lasted a week or so, and that would have stopped any email from, or linking to, the site. Including PM notifications.

      It would also have significantly reduced the impact of showing up and being unable to access the site. If bills like SOPA and PIPA become law, that will be a permanent reality for many of the sites you use.

      If a day bothered you, what about forever?


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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        George,
        What this did for me is to listen to what you (Paul Myers) and Allen have always told us...

        Do Not depend on the Warrior Forum for your only income. Of course many of us know this already, but it sure rings true now.

        Reality, with the flick of a switch, one man, Allen, can shut this Great Forum Down in one second.

        Really Something to think about, SOPA or No SOPA.
        I wondered who'd be the first to bring that up.

        That wasn't a motivation for the blackout, but I do think it was an important accompanying lesson. And, judging from some of the emails I got, one that a lot of people missed.


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  • Profile picture of the author Justin Wheeler
    I think it was great that the Warrior Forum supported the blackout, however it would have perhaps been nice had there been a little notice before hand...

    Anyway kudos to the team behind the forum for a good gesture.
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    • Profile picture of the author royljestr
      Originally Posted by Justin Wheeler View Post

      I think it was great that the Warrior Forum supported the blackout, however it would have perhaps been nice had there been a little notice before hand...

      Anyway kudos to the team behind the forum for a good gesture.
      I agree that it would have been nice to get a little notice. HOWEVER, it was a good wake up call for those of us that make money here on the forum. It really got me thinking about what I would do if the blackout was permanent.

      So, I did take action and contacted my local authorities and let them know what I think.

      All in all I am glad that the WF is back up!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Kate C
      I agree with you here. I was trying to get on the forum all day yesterday and all I got was a static SOPA page. I even thought that my computer was infected.I would have appreciated a mass advance warning systems. A whole lot of things went through my mind and all of them blaming myself for whatever was happening, one of them being that I no-longer had access to the forum for some reason. I am very glad things are back to normal.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Before we start in on Google, let's keep in mind that more people probably land on that front page in an hour than hit this site in a year.

          Facebook and Twitter "did nothing," but sometimes "nothing" is the best thing to do. A lot of people used those sites to get the word out about the problem. I know my summary was read by a few thousand more people because of them than it would have without. And that's got to be a tiny drop in the ocean.

          Social media need to operate by different standards than more traditional sites. Failing to understand that can only act against us.


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          • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Before we start in on Google, let's keep in mind that more people probably land on that front page in an hour than hit this site in a year.

            Facebook and Twitter "did nothing," but sometimes "nothing" is the best thing to do. A lot of people used those sites to get the word out about the problem. I know my summary was read by a few thousand more people because of them than it would have without. And that's got to be a tiny drop in the ocean.

            Social media need to operate by different standards than more traditional sites. Failing to understand that can only act against us.


            Paul
            Yes, I think it was wise for facebook and twitter to stay up so that the word could be spread.

            That is why I think the Black out worked:

            Amidst SOPA Blackout, Senate Copyright Bill Loses Key Supporters - Forbes
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            • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
              Originally Posted by TopKat22

              Yes, I think it was wise for facebook and twitter to stay up so that the word could be spread.
              I'm not sure I agree on this. Yes, by virtue of Facebook and Twitter staying up, opponents of the bills were able to get the word out to some members of those sites. But if Facebook and Twitter had joined the blackout, all of their members would have been made aware of the issue (and possibly angry enough to do something about it). Just my two cents.
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          • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Before we start in on Google, let's keep in mind that more people probably land on that front page in an hour than hit this site in a year.

            Facebook and Twitter "did nothing," but sometimes "nothing" is the best thing to do. A lot of people used those sites to get the word out about the problem. I know my summary was read by a few thousand more people because of them than it would have without. And that's got to be a tiny drop in the ocean.

            Social media need to operate by different standards than more traditional sites. Failing to understand that can only act against us.


            Paul
            Although I do agree it was good for them to stay up, I still feel a simple message on Facebook's landing page could have at least shown where it stands on the issue. Yes keep it up so the peoples can talk about it but no message at all? Just seems odd considering how many likely copyrighted funny cat pictures and music videos get posted to Facebook every single day.
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          • Profile picture of the author Manie Amari
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Before we start in on Google, let's keep in mind that more people probably land on that front page in an hour than hit this site in a year.

            Facebook and Twitter "did nothing," but sometimes "nothing" is the best thing to do. A lot of people used those sites to get the word out about the problem. I know my summary was read by a few thousand more people because of them than it would have without. And that's got to be a tiny drop in the ocean.

            Social media need to operate by different standards than more traditional sites. Failing to understand that can only act against us.


            Paul
            I was wandering why these social media outlets didn't take a stand. Thanks for pointing that out. I guess they had a duty to uphold. However, it would have been interesting to see peoples reaction if Facebook and twitter took a stand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
    Paul, I think it's great that so many went 'blank' at the same time - even in just the course of a single day I came across a few sites that were "down" in protest.

    Frustrating? No, not really, I knew they'd be back. But imagine how much worse it might be if it all went ahead and went horribly wrong.

    I support those in protest.

    Paul Barrs

    PS. But it was also good for us who *don't* rely on WF for sales to still see a few orders come through. For those who had a complete order blackout too... I suggest you diversify.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    I just wanted to publicly say,

    WAY TO GO!

    GOOD JOB!

    THANK YOU!!!!

    I respect you all even more now.

    Willing to put your money where you mouth is.

    Willing to take a stand for what you believe.

    Good for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
      Yes, way to go on raising awareness. Allen lost some money today doing what he did and hopefully we all realize if he is willing to do that, this whole thing is a big deal we need to do our part in.

      I was surprised and a little disappointed to see Facebook had nothing at all. They probably had one of the biggest opportunities to get something in front of the most eyeballs.

      Google had a black box graphic up so that was good right? Considering the extra staff and money it will cost them to safeguard against and filter out billions of "blacklisted" results I thought they would have a bit more then a graphic but oh well I guess.

      Overall, I think it was a good way to raise awareness today and I hope everyone who learned more and understood better the risks, also took the time to send an email, sign a petition, or send a letter.

      When does the voting officially begin? I saw the 24th in a few places but also read "expected to be decided some time in Feb." Anybody know for sure when my interwebz might get ruined?
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  • Profile picture of the author candoit2
    I did not see enough information telling non US people how to get involved.

    If you are not in the US and are wondering what you can do, there is a petition here:

    Petition the State Department

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  • Profile picture of the author martyJames
    Im blank permanently so can totally empathise with this stand....
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  • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
    Perfect and I vote for another major sites blackout!

    People need to understand that this bill does not need to be revised but needs to be destroyed!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Targeted Traffic
    Hey guys I found this very informative a brief and understandable explanation of what really is meant behind those very profoundly stated terms of the bill:

    Why SOPA Is Dangerous

    perhaps you might want to share it to others too.
    SOPA/PIPA to summarize is the DEATH OF INTERNET
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  • Profile picture of the author satrap
    I personally agree with the black out decision, but I think most of us and especially those who are actually in the position of power and can change things, forget to see the other sides argument.

    I mean, both Hollywood and silicon valley and all of us here at both side of the aisle are against internet piracy. So, I really hope that both side can come together and come up with a solution that stops criminals from stealing other people's content while protecting our first amendment rights.

    But then again, compromise is a word that politician seem to not understand (especially these days)!
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    • Profile picture of the author Bekah Howard
      Originally Posted by satrap View Post

      I mean, both Hollywood and silicon valley and all of us here at both side of the aisle are against internet piracy. So, I really hope that both side can come together and come up with a solution that stops criminals from stealing other people's content while protecting our first amendment rights.
      Current copyright laws do protect against piracy and the FBI has shut down (or forced massive changes on) several sites that "support piracy". How does giving the government the ability to block sites and anyone the ability to shut down sites with no due process fight piracy?
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  • Profile picture of the author ERPLeadsWriter
    I was actually very much surprised that this forum joined in. I thought political discussion was a complete no-no but I guess that really shows how much a threat SOPA has posed.

    I mean, I'm not even in America and even my internet work has been gravely affected. Despite that, I do not blame the likes of wikipedia or other sites for their self-imposed blackouts. I blame SOPA. I may not have read the thing itself but if this is the sort bad reaction it's been getting (and the fact that it will allegedly put the whole net under Martial Law style surveillance), then count this foreigner in on the protest.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    Looks like it worked!!!!

    Amidst SOPA Blackout, Senate Copyright Bill Loses Key Supporters - Forbes


    Florida Senator Marco Rubio, who co-sponsored the Protect-IP Act (PIPA) that served as the Senate equivalent of the SOPA bill, has officially withdrawn his support of PIPA and called for more discussion before new copyright legislation is introduced.

    "Therefore, I have decided to withdraw my support for the Protect IP Act," the statement continued. "Furthermore, I encourage Senator Reid to abandon his plan to rush the bill to the floor
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    (I'm in Australia so slept through most of the 'black-out')

    I definitely like to see people standing up to these types of issues (boy do we need it) however as someone else mentioned above, I do think just a quick warning would have been a nice gesture to all the members who have helped make this forum what it is today... rather than us just turning up to a dead forum. Are we working together here or not?

    I don't rely on the WF for my income but I can imagine there are quite a few people running services and the like who do. Then there are those who may have just emailed out a WSO promotion to a big list just before the forum went down... those who just launched a WSO before the forum went down... and so on. It may "only be a day" but there are only 365 of those in a year.

    Had we all been given a day or twos notice then people could have easily worked this into their plans and I am sure most people would have been happy to do so. The message would not have been as strong though, I agree with that.

    Ah well, a good lesson to all of those who rely on this forum as their only source of income. Diversify diversify diversify.
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    • Profile picture of the author THK
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post


      ... however as someone else mentioned above, I do think just a quick warning would have been a nice gesture to all the members who have helped make this forum what it is today... rather than us just turning up to a dead forum. Are we working together here or not?
      I think there was some kind of heads up which I missed. Just before the blackout I read a post from tpw (sorry, don't know his real name) that this forum is about to do something, so it was not a complete surprise for me.

      I am really glad that Allen and warriors have done this. Since I am not from US, couldn't have a direct impact of any sort. Now I am a part of the protest, however tiny part it may be.

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    • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      (I'm in Australia so slept through most of the 'black-out')

      I definitely like to see people standing up to these types of issues (boy do we need it) however as someone else mentioned above, I do think just a quick warning would have been a nice gesture to all the members who have helped make this forum what it is today... rather than us just turning up to a dead forum. Are we working together here or not?

      I don't rely on the WF for my income but I can imagine there are quite a few people running services and the like who do. Then there are those who may have just emailed out a WSO promotion to a big list just before the forum went down... those who just launched a WSO before the forum went down... and so on.

      Had we all been given a day or twos notice then people could have easily worked this into their plans and I am sure most people would have been happy to do so. The message would not have been as strong though, I agree with that.

      Ah well, a good lesson to all of those who rely on this forum as their only source of income. Diversify diversify diversify.
      Don't you see the whole point of the blackout? If SOPA comes into our reality there will likely be no warning and no viable recourse for any sellers here should this forum get added to the dreaded black list. The whole point of the blackout was to give a little taste of what could become a reality, no site, no services, no freedoms, no liberty unless Uncle Sam says it's okay.

      Not to mention how even if by mistake a site like this one gets targeted it will take a lot of time and a lot of effort to reverse.

      The US government gives no warning, here today...gone tomorrow. Maybe Allen would fight to get the WF back or maybe he wouldn't. There is no telling how much it might cost or if it would even be possible.

      The blackout was a way to give an example of what your internet access being censored could be like. At least this time we knoew it would be back, imagine if you typed warriorforum.com and saw page not found.
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    • Profile picture of the author steve-wilkins
      Spot on WillR!

      First of all I do totally agree with the blackout and its purpose but again saying that I was also really surprised that there was no notice given. I mean we all submitted our email addresses when we signed up the the WF right?

      So why not a quick heads up email to let us all know what was going to happen yesterday. I feel really sorry for those who ran WSO's yesterday, in fact a good online friend of mine ran his WSO yesterday and when I clicked on the email link he sent out to view it, the forum was dead with the SOPA warning. A few lost dollars there for him and many others I would imagine.

      Anyway, hopefully lesson learned for next time.

      By the way, thanks to those who put the link up in this thread for the NON-US citizens to petition, I just signed up

      Steve.

      Originally Posted by WillR View Post

      (I'm in Australia so slept through most of the 'black-out')

      I definitely like to see people standing up to these types of issues (boy do we need it) however as someone else mentioned above, I do think just a quick warning would have been a nice gesture to all the members who have helped make this forum what it is today... rather than us just turning up to a dead forum. Are we working together here or not?

      I don't rely on the WF for my income but I can imagine there are quite a few people running services and the like who do. Then there are those who may have just emailed out a WSO promotion to a big list just before the forum went down... those who just launched a WSO before the forum went down... and so on. It may "only be a day" but there are only 365 of those in a year.

      Had we all been given a day or twos notice then people could have easily worked this into their plans and I am sure most people would have been happy to do so. The message would not have been as strong though, I agree with that.

      Ah well, a good lesson to all of those who rely on this forum as their only source of income. Diversify diversify diversify.
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      • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
        Originally Posted by steve-wilkins View Post

        Spot on WillR!

        First of all I do totally agree with the blackout and its purpose but again saying that I was also really surprised that there was no notice given. I mean we all submitted our email addresses when we signed up the the WF right?

        So why not a quick heads up email to let us all know what was going to happen yesterday. I feel really sorry for those who ran WSO's yesterday, in fact a good online friend of mine ran his WSO yesterday and when I clicked on the email link he sent out to view it, the forum was dead with the SOPA warning. A few lost dollars there for him and many others I would imagine.

        Anyway, hopefully lesson learned for next time.
        The owner(s) of the Warrior Forum can do whatever they like without notice. We are conducting business on a third party site. When you rely on a third party site for traffic or income **** happens and is beyond our control.

        How much notice did Squidoo give when they were slapping people or YouTube or AdWords?
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    Update: Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah, another of the bill's initial co-sponsors, has also officially rescinded his support for Protect IP. Cnet has a long list of legislators who have backed away from the two copyright bills.
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    • Profile picture of the author Targeted Traffic
      Sheeesh this is the US what were they thinking??? this country represents LIBERTY...and they are trying to push laws such as these, this is like an effort to control economic and social activity! oh wait...doesn't that sound like communism?
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      • Profile picture of the author Targeted Traffic
        Don't be so sure that if you aren't from the US you won't be affected...

        "Effectively, this bill gives the attorney general the power to fully censor foreign sites that the government does not have jurisdiction to take down directly."

        read the link iv'e posted above
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        • Profile picture of the author 1Constant
          From Wikipedia:

          Thank you.

          The Wikipedia blackout is over -- and you have spoken.

          More than 162 million people saw our message asking if you could imagine a world without free knowledge. You said no. You shut down Congress's switchboards. You melted their servers. Your voice was loud and strong. Millions of people have spoken in defense of a free and open Internet.

          For us, this is not about money. It's about knowledge. As a community of authors, editors, photographers, and programmers, we invite everyone to share and build upon our work.

          Our mission is to empower and engage people to document the sum of all human knowledge, and to make it available to all humanity, in perpetuity. We care passionately about the rights of authors, because we are authors.
          SOPA and PIPA are not dead: they are waiting in the shadows. What's happened in the last 24 hours, though, is extraordinary. The Internet has enabled creativity, knowledge, and innovation to shine, and as Wikipedia went dark, you've directed your energy to protecting it.

          We're turning the lights back on. Help us keep them shining brightly.


          How beautiful is that!?!
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          More to think about...

          In the 2 hours or so the site's been re-opened, I've already deleted 2 spams promoting illegal movie downloads. If bills like SOPA and PIPA were to become law, just missing one of those could mean the whole site gets shut down.

          The vast majority of that kind of post, along with most of the rest of the spam we see here, comes from India and Pakistan. Given the choice between blocking those countries or losing the site entirely, what do you think Allen would do?

          Until there was some clarification about the intent of the site owners and the question of "primary purpose," the risk of getting nailed for things that are against WF policies wouldn't be worth taking.

          Oh yeah... China, Hong Kong, and Singapore would go away to keep out the fashion counterfeiters.


          Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Matt Ward
          People think that because they live outside of the USA that this means nothing to them? Yeah right. SOPA will effect everyone that uses the internet.

          1) If the USA implements an act like this, it sets a precedent for every other country. You can bet many will be soon to follow.

          2) If you're an internet marketer, guess what, I'm assuming there's a good chance you conduct business with people in the USA.

          As a random example, imagine you have a perfectly fine website on shared hosting where there may be several hundred sites on one IP. Someone that has a website on that IP offers up something the government doesn't like and blocks that IP. Oops, there goes his site, yours, and several hundred others that were on that IP.

          And that's just one example.

          Something like SOPA going through also sets a precedent for your rights to be further stepped upon with future bills. It's easy to say something doesn't affect you or doesn't bother you enough, but eventually these types of bills will keep coming through until you can't even sign onto the internet without an ID anymore.

          Don't think that if SOPA/PIPA fail there won't be more to come, either.
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          "Keep moving forward."
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        I would say I probably lost about $1,000 yesterday.

        Thank God!

        Imagine what might have happened had we not made it painfully obvious to
        the people who run our government that this bill is so seriously flawed that it's
        a train wreck waiting to happen.

        If you didn't read Paul Myers' newsletter or article from yesterday, please read
        it. He explains the potential fallout (as in nuclear) as clear as anybody can. It is
        a MUST read...period.

        Anybody who doesn't get how serious this is, is brain dead.

        While I am planning on selling my business and retiring this year, you'd think
        that this doesn't concern me.

        You'd be wrong.

        Who would want to buy a business that got SHUT DOWN because of this
        stupid and dangerous law?

        I would literally be out hundreds of thousands of dollars...permanently.

        What I lost yesterday is a drop in the bucket next to what I could lose in
        the future if this reckless bill ever passed.

        It warms my heart to see all those who have supported the bill drop their
        support.

        Folks...they did that because of US.

        So many people think that they don't make a difference.

        They're wrong. We ALL make a difference.

        Martin Niemöller said it better than anybody in our history ever did. I will
        quote him here.

        First they came for the communists,
        and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

        Then they came for the trade unionists,
        and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

        Then they came for the Jews,
        and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

        Then they came for the Catholics,
        and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

        Then they came for me
        and there was no one left to speak out for me.
        We all have a voice that counts, even if you don't think it directly affects
        you. Even if you don't have your own business.

        Because imagine you're going to your favorite online site to purchase whatever
        and that site is no longer there.

        They may have not come for you, but you ended up getting screwed anyway.

        John Donne wrote the following:

        No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee.
        We're all in this together folks.

        I lost $1,000 yesterday.

        It could have been a hell of a lot worse.
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      • Originally Posted by Justin Wheeler View Post

        I think it was great that the Warrior Forum supported the blackout, however it would have perhaps been nice had there been a little notice before hand...

        Anyway kudos to the team behind the forum for a good gesture.

        No offense but I'm glad Allen didn't give anyone a warning for it.

        First off.. The Goverment isn't going to be giving anyone warnings if this bill passes, it's not like they're going to come in and say, "Gee Allen, I know your a millionaire and what not but in a week we're closing your forum because we just don't give a ****."

        Nope, they're going to close it down RIGHT THEN.

        Secondly,

        Now maybe people who depend on the WF will actually open there eyes to other business opportunities. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, just because you knew it was coming back doesn't mean the next this happens it will be.

        Regards,

        Matthew Roe
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    Update 2: Senator Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire has also pulled her support, as have Senators Roy Blunt of Missouri, John Boozman of Arkansas, and Mark Kirk of Illinois.
    Rubio is the latest in a wave of opposition to SOPA and PIPA.

    The White House has already come out in opposition to the bills in their current form, SOPA has been tabled, had some of its most controversial portions excised and may be altogether dead, and other senators had already called for a delay in voting on PIPA to address oversights in the bill.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
      Originally Posted by TopKat22 View Post

      Update 2: Senator Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire has also pulled her support, as have Senators Roy Blunt of Missouri, John Boozman of Arkansas, and Mark Kirk of Illinois.
      Rubio is the latest in a wave of opposition to SOPA and PIPA.

      The White House has already come out in opposition to the bills in their current form, SOPA has been tabled, had some of its most controversial portions excised and may be altogether dead, and other senators had already called for a delay in voting on PIPA to address oversights in the bill.
      Keep them coming!
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  • Profile picture of the author MattCatania
    I think this was excellent because it meant that people didn't have an excuse to sit around on the WarriorForum and could actually put some time into their own businesses!
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    Logic outweighs all.

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  • Profile picture of the author Clint Faber
    Have you contacted your representative to appose SOPA ? I know I did. The 18th was meant for you to dedicate time to spread the word.

    What have you done to appose SOPA so for?
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    How did closing Warrior Forum down for a day help this endeavor?
    Signature

    Tim Pears

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    • Profile picture of the author Kal Sallam
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      How did closing Warrior Forum down for a day help this endeavor?
      Is that a serious question?

      To raise awareness maybe, to get hundreds of thousands to do something I am guessing?

      It made call my representative to oppose this BS before its a law!
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      • Profile picture of the author timpears
        Originally Posted by Kal Sallam View Post

        Is that a serious question?

        To raise awareness maybe, to get hundreds of thousands to do something I am guessing?

        It made call my representative to oppose this BS before its a law!
        I think awareness is raised. I think that closing down web sites for a day only affects us that use them, the idiot politicians that are pushing this crap will never see this forum and didn't even know it was closed down. Unless we inundate those politicians they will push it though. So organizing an email campaign to your Representative and Senators in Washington DC would be more productive in my opinion.
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        Tim Pears

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    • Profile picture of the author UMS
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      How did closing Warrior Forum down for a day help this endeavor?
      Are you for real? While the WF isn't any where as large as Wikipedia, it is still a major site for internet businesses and every one of them has some form of influence on SOPA.

      What did you do during the blackout? Hopefully you were more productive.
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    • Profile picture of the author drmani
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      How did closing Warrior Forum down for a day help this endeavor?
      What happened to me because of the WF SOPA blackout?

      1. I had a taste of how things *might* be if SOPA/PIPA happen

      2. I was moved to send an email to my list about it - which
      ended up starting some interesting conversations with my
      readers

      3. I see the WF in a very positive light - as a community willing to stand
      up for what it believes. Not merely spouting words, but backing
      it by action.

      I'm reading Robin Sharma's "The Secret Letters of the Monk who Sold
      his Ferrari", and the parchment accompanying the first talisman reads:

      "Every decision we make, every step we take, must be informed
      by our committment to living a life that is true and honest and
      authentic to ourselves and ourselves alone. And as we proceed,
      we are certain to experience fortune beyond our highest imagination."




      Here's wishing SOPA/PIPA in its current form a speedy demise!

      You might find this one-pager interesting too (via Mark Joyner)

      Ape Con Myth › 00227 – Super PIPA-SOPA

      All success
      Dr.Mani
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    • Profile picture of the author johnben1444
      Originally Posted by timpears View Post

      How did closing Warrior Forum down for a day help this endeavor?
      Thousands of thousands of people crawl WF everyday goddam day. Visitors and members who visited this site on the blackout day will be confronted with evil SOPA and probably call his/her congress man to tear the bill.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Tanvir,
    Since I am not from US, couldn't have a direct impact of any sort.
    Well, if you don't have any customers in the US, and don't want any, that may be true.

    That said, there's a part of the bill that wasn't discussed a lot. The crippling of the "safe harbor" provisions in the CDA. Essentially, the proposed new rules would let anyone complain that a site was infringing, or enabling infringement, and force it offline while the matter was handled in the courts.

    How many sites do you visit in the US that you'd miss if they went away?


    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author THK
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Tanvir,Well, if you don't have any customers in the US, and don't want any, that may be true.

      That said, there's a part of the bill that wasn't discussed a lot. The crippling of the "safe harbor" provisions in the CDA. Essentially, the proposed new rules would let anyone complain that a site was infringing, or enabling infringement, and force it offline while the matter was handled in the courts.

      How many sites do you visit in the US that you'd miss if they went away?


      Paul
      Just to make it clear, my lack of action was not for the lack of intent, but I wasn't sure how can I participate as a non-US citizen. I can see post #9 on this thread, maybe that's my answer. And of-course there is the option of taking a stand with my own sites, but they are nothing comparing to the giants that took part in the protest, so I didn't bother.

      To answer your last question Paul- A LOT.

      Tanvir
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      • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
        Originally Posted by THK View Post

        Just to make it clear, my lack of action was not for the lack of intent, but I wasn't sure how can I participate as a non-US citizen. I can see post #9 on this thread, maybe that's my answer. And of-course there is the option of taking a stand with my own sites, but they are nothing comparing to the giants that took part in the protest, so I didn't bother.

        To answer your last question Paul- A LOT.

        Tanvir
        Hi Tanvir,

        As a fellow non-US citizen I blacked out my site for the day too, to create awareness to a few people.

        The more people who know about it, the greater the power behind the opposition.

        Di
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        • Profile picture of the author THK
          Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

          Hi Tanvir,

          As a fellow non-US citizen I blacked out my site for the day too, to create awareness to a few people.

          The more people who know about it, the greater the power behind the opposition.

          Di
          Hey Diana
          kudos to you and everyone else who has done that. I sure am kicking myself for not doing it. Even though it would make little difference(very low trafficked site), but would have been a nice way to formally protest this bill.

          But I am sure my Facebook rant wasn't in vain, they were all my friends and/or family, but none of them are IMers or anything like that. So it was "news" for some of them.

          I am really glad that whatever move we made is having some kind of impact.

          Tanvir
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Nice bit of writing on that SOPA page yesterday. Paul's work I'm guessing.

    BTW good to see Mark Whatisface of Facebook taking a stand as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author vheissu28
    I'm all for protecting people's intellectual rights, but this bill . . . a little overboard.

    And I think the internet community has made it's point very clear.
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  • Profile picture of the author rondo
    Well it got Zuckerberg to tweet for the first time in 3 years! Twitter


    Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author ShaneGorry
    Maybe one day Hollywood will make a movie about how Hollywood killed the Internet.
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  • I lost sales in the black out, and I wasn't happy about it.

    I sent a mailing a few hours before the black out and customers mailed
    me back asking for an alternative salespage. I was thinking "What about
    those who just went on their way?".

    I lost several sales and it was bad for me.

    But that is the price of freedom.

    There are times when you have to make a stand and make sacrifices
    to be FREE.

    When I saw the SOPA message yesterday, I was angry..But not
    with warriorforum..No..I was angry at those who are pushing for SOPA..
    Warriorforum only wanted to send a clear message and let us realize that
    SOPA is a serious thing and gave us a taste of what can permanently
    happen if SOPA is passed.

    Will I ever get the potential sales back...No, but it's alright.
    I'd rather lose sales for a day than to lose an entire business
    for a lifetime.
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  • Profile picture of the author renukoot
    I am also with the WF and others who support for Stopping SOPA in its present contents & going Black in a day has made Impact on the Congressman and Many others who were having the little knowledge about what is SOPA and its consequences are.

    Pledge STOP SOPA.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarioSotojr
    I blacked out all of my high traffic and well highest income sites. I was happy to see that Warrior forum joined into the fold. Losing income for a day for a cause like this is really no big deal because in the long term this bill could and will hurt us. Because all one company with deeper pockets than any of us can say hey they put up something on their site that is copyright be at fault or not doesn't matter. No do process at all just bam your site is banned that is bad. Give this power to the government is like saying hey forget freedom of speech or any of our rights you tell us what we can say or do anytime you wish, if we don't comply we get you shut down or worse you go to jail.

    This is a card Blanche bill to do whatever they want as it stands it will do nothing to stop piracy except inflame them to find ways around it, under it over it. While the rest of the smaller business owners get pushed down anytime the big companies and government wishes. This not the way.

    About some that say they are disappointed that facebook didn't black out. To be honest that was a good decision (as for twitter) because they gave a medium for people to be aware of the issue which went viral. If you look at my facebook sopa is everywhere. I'm very active with this bill since last year also went to the protest in ny.

    The protest did it's job to get the regular folks aware of what is happening and give them the truth of what this bill can detrimentally do to the world not just the U.S.

    So losing sales for one day is the best decision I did and Warrior forum did plus many larger companies did. One day of lost sales is better than a lifetime of worry that I'll be targeted next and lose the freedom I've so much come to love of working for myself that the internet has provided for me thus far.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ralph Moore
      Well done and properly so.

      The impact of seeing that superbly crafted statement without prior notice had the intended effect.

      It certainly makes you think. And I for one hope the majority here "get it".

      Thank you gentlemen!
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    • Thank you for your support in opposition of this legislation Paul - I think it made a positive statement -

      What I wonder though, is why we (the internet users) punish ourselves to show our disdain - perhaps we should show our disdain by boycotting the movie industry for a weekend or more, that hits them in the exact spot they hold is the reason they are so "forced" to introduce this bill.

      That lack of movie box office may be the only way to show them they need to re-think the solution.
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      • Profile picture of the author KristieDean
        Originally Posted by MoneyMagnetMagnate View Post

        Thank you for your support in opposition of this legislation Paul - I think it made a positive statement -

        What I wonder though, is why we (the internet users) punish ourselves to show our disdain - perhaps we should show our disdain by boycotting the movie industry for a weekend or more, that hits them in the exact spot they hold is the reason they are so "forced" to introduce this bill.

        That lack of movie box office may be the only way to show them they need to re-think the solution.
        I am very happy with the results of all our blackouts and tweets. We stopped this bill as written. We've opened their eyes. They will be coming back with another bill, though, so be ready.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mario,
      it will do nothing to stop piracy except inflame them to find ways around it
      Yep. And that is the thing I sort of skirted around in most of my comments. This thing would be far worse than I let on.

      Scenario: The bill becomes law, and companies start pushing for closure of sites domestically and offshore. What comes next?

      Well, file sharing sites would be shut down in a hurry. Pretty much all of them, given that a significant chunk of their bandwidth is used in serving stolen goods. Box.com, Dropbox, Mozy, and other backup sites that allow public links would be at risk, but might survive the purge. They might well have to disable the public sharing of files in order to avoid closure.

      Fiverr would just be toast. There go a whole lot of amateur pirates.

      The thieves would set up other systems for distributing "their" warez. These could include all sorts of tricks with changing DNS, but would also likely involve peer-to-peer systems.

      The fight over that would be huge and hostile. Ever send someone a file using Skype, or some other instant messaging system?

      There'd be a line drawn somewhere, as it became more and more obvious that the suggested measures would reach unconstitutional levels. But where that line would be drawn is anyone's guess.

      I'm somewhat surprised they haven't already outlawed the use of anonymous proxies under some national security pretense. I doubt that would survive a Constitutional challenge, but the lack of effort is curious.

      This is just the free speech stuff. The technical damage a domain-based blacklist could cause is just mind-numbing. We can pretty much call the IP-based lists dead, fortunately. That would be a much messier situation, if somewhat less destructive to the infrastructure.


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author SirThomas
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Scenario: The bill becomes law, and companies start pushing for closure of sites domestically and offshore. What comes next?
        What would prevent some companies to set others up? There would be no easier way to get rid off competition or opposition...

        I'm somewhat surprised they haven't already outlawed the use of anonymous proxies under some national security pretense. I doubt that would survive a Constitutional challenge, but the lack of effort is curious.

        Paul
        I don't want to sound like a conspiracy fanatic, but allowing "temporary damage" to introduce "swift and dramatic" changes in the future is actually nothing new in the politics, if you know what I mean...

        Thomas
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Mario,Yep. And that is the thing I sort of skirted around in most of my comments. This thing would be far worse than I let on.

        Scenario: The bill becomes law, and companies start pushing for closure of sites domestically and offshore. What comes next?

        Well, file sharing sites would be shut down in a hurry. Pretty much all of them, given that a significant chunk of their bandwidth is used in serving stolen goods. Box.com, Dropbox, Mozy, and other backup sites that allow public links would be at risk, but might survive the purge. They might well have to disable the public sharing of files in order to avoid closure.

        Fiverr would just be toast. There go a whole lot of amateur pirates.

        The thieves would set up other systems for distributing "their" warez. These could include all sorts of tricks with changing DNS, but would also likely involve peer-to-peer systems.

        The fight over that would be huge and hostile. Ever send someone a file using Skype, or some other instant messaging system?

        There'd be a line drawn somewhere, as it became more and more obvious that the suggested measures would reach unconstitutional levels. But where that line would be drawn is anyone's guess.

        I'm somewhat surprised they haven't already outlawed the use of anonymous proxies under some national security pretense. I doubt that would survive a Constitutional challenge, but the lack of effort is curious.

        This is just the free speech stuff. The technical damage a domain-based blacklist could cause is just mind-numbing. We can pretty much call the IP-based lists dead, fortunately. That would be a much messier situation, if somewhat less destructive to the infrastructure.


        Paul
        @Paul
        First, a big thank you for taking the stand. WF at its best and I for one am proud to stand with you.

        I'm somewhat surprised they haven't already outlawed the use of anonymous proxies under some national security pretense. I doubt that would survive a Constitutional challenge, but the lack of effort is curious.
        Consider that we never really know the who/what/how we are connecting to when www is actually a domain under the control of the government. The short of it is all IPs are under the control of www.

        Jeffery
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  • Profile picture of the author TwinDragon
    I took the time to write physical letters to my congressmen and senators asking them to oppose these bills. I am sending a thank you letter to one of my senators because he sent a tweet today stating that he opposed this legislature. They went out in the mail today. Also, I signed a few petitions on the internet, one of them Google.

    I took the time today to learn what I could about this issue and took some action. Now, I can turn my efforts back to my business.

    Thanks, Twin
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    Seeking my teeth into all this great information.

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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Q
    Banned
    Imagine the world without Google.....

    Imagine the world without Wikipedia.....

    Imagine the world without Facebook.....

    Imagine the world without Youtube.....

    Imagine the world without Reddit.....

    Imagine the world without online businesses.....

    Imagine the world without this forum.....

    Our future in the internet will be ruined!

    US citizens and the world should unite against SOPA and PIPA. I am strongly against them, and we pray that the bill won't pass. Our internet future is in danger, this will not resolve our problems, but it will create a huge disaster to our internet freedom....very huge than the earthquakes and tornadoes!

    I'm glad that Warrior Forum and other giant companies made the right decision to go blackout yesterday (my 25th birthday) to protest against SOPA.
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    • Profile picture of the author danlew
      Originally Posted by lamposproject View Post

      Imagine the world without Google.....

      Imagine the world without Wikipedia.....

      Imagine the world without Facebook.....

      Imagine the world without Youtube.....

      Imagine the world without Reddit.....

      Imagine the world without online businesses.....

      Imagine the world without this forum.....

      Our future in the internet will be ruined!

      US citizens and the world should unite against SOPA and PIPA. I am strongly against them, and we pray that the bill won't pass. Our internet future is in danger, this will not resolve our problems, but it will create a huge disaster to our internet freedom....very huge than the earthquakes and tornadoes!

      I'm glad that Warrior Forum and other giant companies made the right decision to go blackout yesterday (my 25th birthday) to protest against SOPA.
      You're right man. First of all, belated Happy Birthday to you. SOPA is only destroying our future, and it makes a huge impact on social media, online businesses and more. I have a feeling that this bill won't pass and our internet freedom is still on.

      I am with you and all of these Warriors to unite against SOPA.
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      • Profile picture of the author richardnewton1
        It's good to see so many millions of people taking a stand against this bill.

        I'm not in the US but I know it will effect me and everybody else.

        However if you are in the US, please write to your congressmen and spread the word. The more people that stand against it, the better.

        I'm an internet marketer and although this industry has it's shady areas, I still love it and don't want anything to kill off any business online.

        SOPA and PIPA won't stop online piracy, all sites that get "blocked" can be accessed by their IP address, it won't do much in stopping online piracy but it will really effect free speech online. You can't post anything with copyright online, even the most smallest ridiculous things can bring you into trouble.

        This will effect internet marketing, and if anyone is struggling to make money online now, then if SOPA & PIPA pass, it will be a lot harder.

        However in my opinion, it won't pass, it's just to much, but I think it may be a smart move to get a similar bill passed.

        E.g. SOPA & PIPA are very extreme, as you can see millions are saying NO! So the government give the people what they want, they don't pass the bill. BUT let's say after they introduce another bill that sounds much more reasonable, the people will say "it's better than SOPA" and less people will stand against it.

        Long story short, if the government want to control the internet, they will do it one way or another.
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      • Profile picture of the author mrdomains
        I confess to not having a total understanding of the SOPA issues, but what I do know is that any legislative maneuver that tries to limit the web will only spawn ways to flow around it and in the process (by forcing the masses to find loopholes) introduce more people to anarchy and loss of morals. Reading about the SOPA anti-circumvention clause was scary as it would seem to make the loose ends wide open to interpretation. Laws and regulations which are not explicit undermine the authority of anyone trying to impose them.

        Most people don´t want to share copyrighted stuff. Not because it is against the law (because this type of law is impossible to police), but because it creates a moral conflict on the scale of "not being nice to others".

        Internet has become synonymous with sharing, and piracy has unfortunately become a reality of the world we live in. Anyone who suggests it can be stopped by legislation is either getting a massive lobbying check or needs to step into this century and look around. The music and book industry seem to have learned that you can counteract piracy, at least to some extent, by embracing the online market. They may not be making as much money as when it was impossible to distribute a CD over internet, but at least they are offering people a alternative which is close enough to free to be the morally just choice of most people. By selling individual tracks without major manufacturing/distribution costs, the ROI numbers are probably not that bad.

        I live in Sweden. We spawned the swedish chef, PirateBay and now it would seem that our government has accepted Kopimism as a missionary church. Being official enables the group to receive govt grants and spread their "information sharing is sacred" gospel as a religious belief... I'm not sure if that means we are exceptionally open-minded, or a breeding ground of anarchy, or maybe we are just silly. Since we frown on lobbying as such, maybe they were forced to find a loophole through religion...

        Anyway, I was happy to see that WF was used as a platform to manifest against against SOPA, because I truly feel the free web (with all the good and the bad parts) is making the world a better place.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicola Lane
    The biggest irony is these bills would make it more difficult for the little guys to stop piracy of their works!

    There is a whole world that is not controlled by the US.

    If I were to set up a "naughty" site here in the UK - sure the US could stop anyone there working with me, but it wouldn't affect the rest of the world.

    Then say my site was successful and I expended and sold even more pirated stuff - how would anyone in the US even know I was selling their stuff?

    Sure people like Disney have offices all over the world, but think about the little guys. How about some of the one man bands that are currently killing it on Kindle? JA Konrath, John Locke, Amanda Hocking. They can't even see my site - so they certainly can't find out if I am offering their stuff for download.

    Of course there are ways around this - but the process has just become much more difficult, much more troublesome and much more expensive for them.

    I could go on and on with many more examples of how these acts will simply just not work - but that would become a rant!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
    It was kinda shocking for me to see the protesting sites, including WF, because the SOPA bill was ALREADY pulled from the House voting BEFORE any blackout even STARTED, but that fact wasn't mentioned on the protest letters.

    That's like protesting a military action as the troops arrive home.

    ---

    As for saying anyone mailing out on wso promotions, and it being their own fault for not checking the site first, qued email broadcasts come to mind.

    ---

    The SOPA law as written is horrible, but like i said, it was already pulled before any black out site protest started. Over a million innocent babies died of abortion this last year, maybe we can post links for this sometime to bring attention to this too? Maybe not.

    Just glad to be back home. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author solado
    I live in the UK so cant really do much to protest other than spread the word.

    Undoubtedly this 'bill' had been created by old men with no idea of how the internet works. They probably don't know how to use google, let alone understand DNS servers, Copyright laws and how people make a living online.
    If this was passed, say good bye to the foundations the internet was built upon - Piracy isn't as bad as people make it out to be, its those who adapt that succeed look at netflix for example they offer a paid service to watch movies and its a super success.


    What scares me most is this bill could even be considered too, the internet is the last free land in this world. Taking land away from the free will be sure to cause MAJOR problems.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Ken,
    It was kinda shocking for me to see the protesting sites, including WF, because the SOPA bill was ALREADY pulled from the House voting BEFORE any blackout even STARTED, but that fact wasn't mentioned on the protest letters.
    Perhaps because Rep Lamar Smith, the primary author of the bill, had said he plans to continue markup in February? Or because PIPA is still pending in the Senate? Or because you can't trust these people to not keep bringing things like this back until we miss it or get tired of fighting?

    And don't count on the implied threat of a veto, either.


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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Ken,Perhaps because Rep Lamar Smith, the primary author of the bill, had said he plans to continue markup in February? Or because PIPA is still pending in the Senate? Or because you can't trust these people to not keep bringing things like this back until we miss it or get tired of fighting?

      And don't count on the implied threat of a veto, either.


      Paul
      Yes perhaps Paul, but that wasnt mentioned at all in the letter to WF users here, or on google, or wiki, so it wasn't completely accurate.

      The information spread and people mailed it out, blacked out their own sites, etc...but the bill was already pulled before they started and nobody told them. That was my only point.

      Sure it will come back, but i hope the solution isnt site blackouts every time it does.

      Speaking of solutions Warriors, Ive read a lot of information on this topic today, horror story 'what ifs', and a lot of specualtion that innocent sites would be shut down for 1 post or 1 file....personally i dont believe that but it could happen.

      There are hundreds of active WSOs right now that use copywritten images on their salespages. They use trademarks like google and clickbank and adsense in their own product images, without the written consent of the companies. Just click through the first page and you can surely spot them....(hell maybe they do have permission what do i know?) dont think im knocking WSOs either, im not, I make a huge portion of my income here, i just used it as an example to fit the horror story scenarios presented here about sites being shut down for one user or one post.

      I didnt see many solutions for the piracy and copyright issues the SOPA bill weakly attempted to address. If anything, maybe the industry itself (website owners) can continue to self-regulate, and will indeed crack down on content that they reasonably believe their users have no legal right to publish. Maybe they can ask for proof the user has the right to use the content.

      What do you think Warriors, is the solution just to do nothing at all? or black out your own sites every time the issue is raised? Ideas?
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Ken,
        Yes perhaps Paul, but that wasnt mentioned at all in the letter to WF users here, or on google, or wiki, so it wasn't completely accurate.
        It wasn't mistaken. Just didn't include the 50 pages or so of info that would have been needed to approach being complete.
        The information spread and people mailed it out, blacked out their own sites, etc...but the bill was already pulled before they started and nobody told them. That was my only point.
        Your point is WRONG.

        The bill had not been pulled. Not in any official sense, at any rate. The headlines that declared SOPA "dead" were sensationalist, and not even close to true. Speaker Cantor tabled it, but that decision can be reversed in a heartbeat. I would wager that any positive movement with PIPA would bring it right back up.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Ken,It wasn't mistaken. Just didn't include the 50 pages or so of info that would have been needed to approach being complete.Your point is WRONG.

          The bill had not been pulled. Not in any official sense, at any rate. The headlines that declared SOPA "dead" were sensationalist, and not even close to true. Speaker Cantor tabled it, but that decision can be reversed in a heartbeat. I would wager that any positive movement with PIPA would bring it right back up.


          Paul
          Ok Paul my point is wrong and yours is right?

          Just because a bill "could" be pulled up in a heartbeat, you consider that a live bill? Man, do you know how many THOUSANDS of bills have been floored and could pop up at any minute?

          50 pages wouldnt be required, I can do it in one sentence lol

          "The SOPA bill has been pulled from the House floor and will not be voted on at this time, but could rear its ugly head at some point in the future so be ready!"

          I think that would have been a fair sentence to include by all these sites, and they didnt include it, or provide any of their own solutions to the problem.

          They say an opinion is like an asshole and everyone has one, Im just glad to see free speech alive and well here. :-)


          ----EDIT---

          And thank YOU Paul for your DECADE of service here, I appreciate ALL you do and you know it!
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph G Spiteri
        Kudos to allen for taking a stand against sopa. This law is just silly the powers to be just want to have us under there thumb.
        And Paul thanks for keeping an eye out for these spammers great job.

        Live Your Dreams
        JOE
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  • Profile picture of the author Tadresources
    Even though this could ruin people's businesses it can also affect our private lives.

    You get drunk at a party, sing a really bad version of a song on karoke, it gets filmed by a friend and they upload it to you tube and post a link on facebook.

    Then all it takes is for someone that works for the record company that owns the song that you sang and bang:

    you go to prison
    facebook is shut down
    you tube is gone

    Just think of how many times you have seen a video on you tube where it says this video has been removed for copyright material. I doubt under the new rules if they go ahead that youtube would last a day in business.

    Then think of the same in your business - how many of use use youtube for traffic all it takes is for someone to say that your material is illegal and bang say goodbye to your business.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      You get drunk at a party, sing a really bad version of a song on karoke, it gets filmed by a friend and they upload it to you tube and post a link on facebook.
      Karaoke disks are licensed for use in public performances. The singer wouldn't have anything to worry about, as long as they didn't upload it. And probably not much if they did.

      The uploader might have more to worry about from the singer than the government. I'd start with that concern first, if I were thinking about posting an embarrassing video online.

      The existing large social media sites probably aren't going to be affected by this in any big way. They might have to develop more proactive moderation systems, though. I can just hear the howls from folks here... "YouTube refused to let me post my copy of XYZ's music video with my review site URL on it!"

      Newer sites will draw the attention of people wanting an easy channel for piracy, and may be seriously impacted. That's more of a concern to me than the effects on existing sites with a lot of resources and the ability to drum up big publicity in a hurry.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Matt,
    As a random example, imagine you have a perfectly fine website on shared hosting where there may be several hundred sites on one IP. Someone that has a website on that IP offers up something the government doesn't like and blocks that IP. Oops, there goes his site, yours, and several hundred others that were on that IP.
    One of many reasons that an IP-based blacklist is pretty much dead in the water.


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  • Profile picture of the author Michael William
    Fortunately, this measure is available for us to attack bad policy. To attack freedom of speech in the name of higher video prices is just plain evil.
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  • Profile picture of the author barbling
    I thought it was a very wise call by the WF.

    Having a portion of one's income call yanked away is quite an effective way to get one's point across!!

    What I personally did the following:

    1.) First off, last week I decided I'd write a tutorial about SOPA and Internet marketing, starting on Monday. So today is Day 4 (Thursday). SIDE NOTE - I'm about #5 out of 207 million for
    https://www.google.com/search?q=sopa+internet+marketing .

    2.) I put up the SOPA Wordpress blackout plugin on me site -
    WordPress › SOPA Blackout Plugin « WordPress Plugins

    3.) I wrote a stand-alone "How SOPA would affect Internet marketers" page.

    4.) Business-wise, I promoted products that don't depend upon the WF (ie,
    RAP Bank*Instant Commissions Vault
    iDavi - THE Digital Product Marketplace
    Wacky Central - Best Priced Internet Marketing Resources - The Best For Less
    These all use RAP)

    Today I'll research what the updates are, probably blog about that, and get bck to the daily routine.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Joe,
    And Paul thanks for keeping an eye out for these spammers great job.
    On behalf of the dozen plus people here who actively moderate various sections of the forum and delete spam and the like... You're welcome.


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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    I'd hate to be one of these WSO sellers who depend on WF for business. Should be a good wake up call to diversify.

    -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Richy Burns
    Although it doesn't directly affect me currently, that is not really the point. The point is that this would unfairly affect many reputable sites due to a badly written bill. I mean we all know the reasoning behind the bill is correct, but the execution of the bill, should it be passed is ludicrous. This would actually damage the internet as a whole even more than if it wasn't passed. I mean you are now giving one website owner the power to affect millions, as opposed to pirating where in the greater scheme of things can't affect a massive site to the level as I described above.

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author oconn92234
    Seems a crazy law indeed. Didn't know much about it ( not from the US ) so thanks guys for filling me in. Dam politicians !!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Short
    To the people who mentioned that the bill was "Pulled" or "Dead" or "Killed" or whatever other word the mainstream media headlines tried to ram down our throats... consider the other sensationalism, half truths and outright lies they are guilty of pushing on us and the political undertones these stories allude to. Pulled, dead and killed were meant to try and get the public to think everything was ok and that they'd won. When in actual fact, it was only postponed to give the writers of the bill(s) time to rewrite it in a way that was easier for the public to swallow.

    The mainstream media headlines were only designed to divert attention so people would look the other way.

    You see, in legalese, the language in which laws, acts, bills and statutes and other legislation are written, there's this useful little word called:

    Acquiescence

    Wikipedia defines it as:

    "The term is most generally permission given by silence or passiveness. Acceptance or agreement by keeping quiet or by not making objections."

    That's what the MSM headlines were for, to get you to shut up about it and forget about it so that an edited version could be pushed through with less resistance in the future.

    Governing bodies in most democratic countries need the support of the public in order to pass legislation affecting them. If you don't stand up and fight the legislation, you consent to it through Acquiescence, or doing nothing.

    A quote often attributed to Edmund Burke fits nicely here:

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

    The blackout was necessary even after the MSM said the bill was killed. It shows the Gov. that the propaganda isn't working and that we're not buying their lies. But it was only the first step - one battle in a war on freedom and liberty - and the Gov. backed off. Don't let your eyes glaze over with victory just yet.

    Freedom is not something that a governing body gives to you. You were born with it and it was given to you by your creator, whomever that may be. Govs are in the business of taking freedoms away and every bit of legislation out there is designed to do just that to some degree.

    Stay vigilant.

    Paul
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by Paul Short View Post

      .

      The mainstream media headlines were only designed to divert attention so people would look the other way.

      You see, in legalese, the language in which laws, acts, bills and statutes and other legislation are written, there's this useful little word called:

      Acquiescence

      Wikipedia defines it as:

      "The term is most generally permission given by silence or passiveness. Acceptance or agreement by keeping quiet or by not making objections."

      That's what the MSM headlines were for, to get you to shut up about it and forget about it so that an edited version could be pushed through with less resistance in the future.

      Governing bodies in most democratic countries need the support of the public in order to pass legislation affecting them. If you don't stand up and fight the legislation, you consent to it through Acquiescence, or doing nothing.

      A quote often attributed to Edmund Burke fits nicely here:

      "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

      The blackout was necessary even after the MSM said the bill was killed. It shows the Gov. that the propaganda isn't working and that we're not buying their lies. But it was only the first step - one battle in a war on freedom and liberty - and the Gov. backed off. Don't let your eyes glaze over with victory just yet.

      Freedom is not something that a governing body gives to you. You were born with it and it was given to you by your creator, whomever that may be. Govs are in the business of taking freedoms away and every bit of legislation out there is designed to do just that to some degree.

      Stay vigilant.

      Paul
      great post, Paul. I too don't think we should become complacent. We dodged a bullet, but this is far from over. Mark my words, they are going to continue trying to push through these types of bills because they are afraid that their secrets are not so secret anymore.
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  • Profile picture of the author Val Wilson
    I think having the black out on the WF was a fantastic thing to do. Of course it was inconvenient, of course some people lost sales for the day - but that was exactly the point. If the SOPA legislation is passed, sites closing down with no notice will be a regular occurence - and not just for 1 day.

    I'm not in the US, but most of my traffic and sales come from there, so I will be directly affected by this bill. I'm really depending on you guys to do all you can to get it stopped before it's too late - and hats off to the WF for taking a stand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ricky Dawn
    I think it was a great thing to do!

    However, a day without the WF killed me

    Ricky
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  • Profile picture of the author DigitalBusker
    Gubbermint said, "We know best." People said, "No you don't!"

    Who knows if SOPA will go away, permanently. The Blackouts were the correct response. Some were suggesting that Senators should be publicly named and shamed across the internet, rather than inconvenience everybody else with site take-downs. That kind of direct action might have back-fired.

    Whereas the blackouts were designed to show the users of the internet what could happen in a universe controlled by SOPA. Which would have caused mass inconvenience on a more regular and even a permanent basis. And some representatives "got it" and withdrew their support. But it still needed people to act, to get in touch with their representatives, to connect with them. Hopefully we learned something useful as well? That it works?
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  • Profile picture of the author dimasfly
    That senators who support SOPA must be ready to lose 95% of their elector. Support SOPA is not very smart decision for their career.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I hope that rather than just enjoying and supporting the black out, that it inspired others to take action.

    I signed every online petition that was thrust in my face
    I moved all my domains out of Godaddy
    3 of my blogs went black yesterday
    I emailed my Congressman and two Senators
    I faxed my Congressman and two Senators
    I posted about it with a template letter and a free fax number to send to your Congressman and Senators (borrowed some copy from WF SOPA page ... hope you don't mind)

    Today was nuts, right?

    Google launched a petition. Wikipedia voted to shut itself off. Senators' websites went down just from the sheer surge of voters trying to write them. NYC and SF geeks had protests that packed city blocks.

    You made history today: nothing like this has ever happened before. Tech companies and users teamed up. Tens of millions of people who make the internet what it is joined together to defend their freedoms. The free network defended itself. Whatever you call it, the bottom line is clear: from today forward, it will be much harder to mess up the internet.

    The really crazy part? We might even win.

    Approaching Monday's crucial Senate vote there are now 35 Senators publicly opposing PIPA. Last week there were 5. And it just takes just 41 solid "no" votes to permanently stall PIPA (and SOPA) in the Senate. What seemed like miles away a few weeks ago is now within reach.

    But don't trust predictions. The forces behind SOPA & PIPA (mostly movie companies) can make small changes to these bills until they know they have the votes to pass. Members of Congress know SOPA & PIPA are unpopular, but they don't understand why--so they're easily duped by superficial changes. The Senate returns next week, and the next few days are critical. Here are two things to think about:

    1. Plan on calling your Senator every day next week. Pick up the phone each morning and call your Senators' offices, until they vote "no" on cloture. If your site participated today, consider running a "Call the Senate" link all next week.

    2. Tomorrow, drop in at your Senators' district offices. We don't have a cool map widget to show you the offices nearest you (we're too exhausted! any takers?). So do it the old fashioned way: use Google, or the phonebook to find the address, and just walk in, say you oppose PIPA, and urge the Senator to vote "no" on cloture. These drop-in visits make our spectacular online protests more tangible and credible.

    That's it for now. Be proud and stay on it!

    --Holmes, Tiffiniy, and the whole Fight for the Future team.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    Before we all start patting ourselves on the back for a "job well done", I would like to point out what is really going on.

    SOPA has been "shelved".

    This is how politicians and lobbyists work. If a bill takes too much heat, as this one has, they get shelved.

    What will happen: Time will pass. The sheeple (that is all of us...myself included) will forget about the "great monster bill that we all slayed" happy with ourselves for "taking a stand".

    In the meantime, we will be distracted and our minds slowly re-occupied with other meaningless and petty garbage that we will consume as intended.

    Thereafter, once public and media "fervor" has waned and this monster-of-a-bill is no longer "news" around which we can "rally", SOPA will be taken off of the shelf...spun...re-written...and its name will be changed.

    SOPA version 2.0/3.0/4.0...etc...etc...which will be called something entirely different and tacked onto some no-name bill which will then be rushed through in an emergency session of congress during some holiday.

    I would like everybody to just stop and think of who we are "really" dealing with here...

    If you guessed politcians...you guessed wrong...congratulations, you just focused on a facade...a front...a spokesman/woman placed there as a mediator that will simply be discarded if they fail to fulfill "the objective". (Hopefully, you realize WHO they work for at this point...or you're freaking clueless.)

    So pop open your wind bottles and get roasted...but know this...

    This isn't over by a long shot...as a matter of fact...we're just getting started...

    I have no doubts that "heads will roll" due to the "sloppy way" in which SOPA 1.0 was handled.

    I am sure their "bosses" aren't happy right now...sucks to be them. LOL!

    This objective will know no borders, so if you think you're safe outside the US, you should probably have another drink now.

    Actually, now that I think about it...ignorance is not a bad thing...in many cases...it is the only thing that keeps you and your family safe...
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  • Profile picture of the author AmandaT
    I had already taken some action before the blackout... I had made calls and sent emails. That being said, the blackout really kicked me in the butt.

    I woke up and saw the blackout. Well, no posting on WF so I went to Facebook. Outraged friends everywhere upset about wikipedia! I spent a good part of the day helping to educate my Facebook friends about the dangers of SOPA and PIPA as well as showing them what they can do to help stop it. The blackouts were a good reminder that if I want to help stop SOPA, I can't just stop after I've taken action. I have to help others see why they should as well.

    I would have liked to see something on Facebook similar to what Google did, but I think Facebook and Twitter did a lot to educate people because of the blackouts. It got people talking, and a lot of them! I honestly have never seen so many people stand up against one thing.

    Along with that I also got very productive with work. I was feeling pretty inspired when my friends started making phone calls even if they have never cared much for politics or current events.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joshua McCoy
    If SOPA and PIPA were to pass, it would be bye-bye internet as we know it.

    Even if this thing fails, there is real need to be watching for something similar to pop up in the future that could be a tweaked version of what these bills would do to the free speech
    on the internet.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nail Yener
    At first, I was kinda annoyed with the blackout but when I read the whole script, now I see the gravity of the situation and how it can affect all of us in this community no matter where you live around the world.

    If SOPA bill passes, will it prevent piracy? Will it stop people from stealing and using products that they have no rights to do so? Will it cure the disease of "illegal sharing of others' creative work"? Will it create a better internet for us?

    My answer is "No" to all of the above questions and in fact it may make the situation worse and it will certainly cause countless headaches for all the people who depend on Internet for their businesses, such as us.

    I am not a U.S. citizen but I will do whatever I can on my side.
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  • Profile picture of the author AppsFromHome
    SOPA is crazy....we all know that and as IMers it is important for us to take a stand against it.

    However, I think that the WF could have taken strong stance that didn't have to go as far as shutting down the forum for the entire day. I agree with previous posters, that it would have been nice to get a notice before it happened.

    I do not think this bill will become a law...but something this drastic will only cause smaller bills to be brought forth and the scary part is, some of them will get passed.

    I knew the forum would be full of Warriors commenting on the SOPA blackout so it's nice to have the one "official" thread to see other's thoughts are on it.

    Thanks!
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Ok so I was skeptical, but thanks to Paul and HeySal for getting me involved. Awareness was indeed raised and our little game of Space Invaders is going to last a while longer.

    I still believe we will have to hurt the bank accounts of corporate executives and politicians for a more permanent solution, but now there are a lot people to join the coming wave of boycotts that will be needed.

    Also, I would like to point out to those of you who wanted a warning or partial access... That was exactly the point! Completely shut down with no warning!

    I have always enjoyed the Warrior Forum, but now I am actually very proud of the community and leadership.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    Latest updates to post after midnight last night....

    Amidst SOPA Blackout, Senate Copyright Bill Loses Key Supporters - Forbes

    Update: Senator Orrin Hatch of Utah, another of the bill’s initial co-sponsors, has also officially rescinded his support for Protect IP. Cnet has a long list of legislators who have backed away from the two copyright bills.

    Update 2: Senator Kelly Ayotte of New Hampshire has also pulled her support, as have Senators Roy Blunt of Missouri, John Boozman of Arkansas, and Mark Kirk of Illinois.

    Update 3: Ars Technica counts a total of 18 senators who voiced new opposition to PIPA on Wednesday. I missed two other former co-sponsors of the bill who now oppose it: David Vitter of Louisiana and Ben Cardin of Maryland.
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  • Profile picture of the author atrbiz
    I made sure to let ALL of my friends and family know about this SOPA bs!!!

    NO to SOPA!

    Thanks,
    Ahmad
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    More than 2.4 million SOPA-related tweets were sent between 12 a.m. and 4 p.m. ET Wednesday, Twitter announced.

    SOPA Explodes on Twitter, Generates 2.4 Million Tweets
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  • Profile picture of the author iw433
    Thank you, thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    Did you take any action like signing a petition, contacting your congressmen, or posting about it in your social networks yesterday?

    I did all three.

    Just wondering.....
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    • Profile picture of the author Wilton White
      Originally Posted by TopKat22 View Post

      Did you take any action like signing a petition, contacting your congressmen, or posting about it in your social networks yesterday?

      I did all three.

      Just wondering.....
      Absolutely! Though social media has a huge and significant impact, I chose the bureaucrat-friendly route of putting it in writing to the two Senators of Florida and the Congressman of my local district. If they don't get online enough to understand the total significance of SOPA and PIPA, then they can read all about it in the letters I sent.

      Thanks to all who helped increase the awareness.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    Fun fact:

    Under SOPA, you could get 5 years in federal prison for posting a Michael Jackson photo - 1 year longer than the doctor who killed him.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattlaclear
    I think a better protest would be to black out until the bills are officially dead. It will cost some skin money. But if either one of these bills are passed our business will suffer. You can count on that. Government regulators are itching to get into our arena and claim it as their own. The fight is on. I have called each of my representatives and voiced my great displeasure with the bills. Politicians on both sides of the aisle are fickle chameleons. They'll do what we need them to do if they know enough of us are against it.

    But I think this might be the one issues reds and blues can agree on. Don't mess with our Internet!
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    Where do opponents of the bills go next? Non-profit anti-SOPA, anti-PIPA group Fight for the Future writes:

    Approaching Monday's crucial Senate vote there are now 35 Senators publicly opposing PIPA. Last week there were 5. And it just takes just 41 solid "no" votes to permanently stall PIPA (and SOPA) in the Senate. What seemed like miles away a few weeks ago is now within reach.
    The group urges people to keep the pressure on Congressional members by "calling your Senator every day next week" as well as visiting your Senators' district offices.


    Read more: Did It Work? 'Day After' Results of the SOPA, PIPA Blackout | Techland | TIME.com

    Note: Interesting that Time Warner allowed this article to be written by one of their reporters because they are officially FOR SOPA and PIPA!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    Ironically, I was preparing to post an observation when I discovered that the WF would be going to the dark side, LOL, which I totally agree with by the way, but for those of you who did participate, good on you.

    One thing I just noticed in every case where I installed and used a "blackout" wordpress plugin, that site increased in traffic, the following day, so there was an unforeseen incentive to participate, at least in comparing the sites that I "blacked out with those that I did not blackout"

    I think that Panda, was totally demolished yesterday, with thousands of website returning a 503 code, I know for a fact that the search engine is having to start all over again on this months rankings, so it will be very interesting to see how all this shakes out over the next few weeks on website rankings, organic traffic and other interesting SEO stuff,

    Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, what this thing may do is "reset" the playing field for many websites...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rogers
    I applaud Allen, Paul, and anyone else involved in the decision to shut down the forum for a day. Hopefully those who were crying about WSOs and no notice eventually paused long enough to get the message. What if the forum was shut down for a SOPA related infraction, even temporarily? Your income stream would be negatively impacted for a damn site longer than 24 hours. Any back doors around the SOPA message and any advance warning would have significantly watered down the message.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
    Looks like the protests really worked:

    Lawmakers withdraw support of anti-piracy bills after online protest - CNN.com


    I know it's not over but it does show the power of the internet giants uniting for a cause (a good cause at that).
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  • Profile picture of the author JSProjects
    I did my part, sending emails, signing petitions, etc. From what I've read today it looks like it may be working. They're starting to back off a bit.

    My only concern is that EVENTUALLY this will pass in one form or another. Even if it's heavily crippled. The backers have far too much money just to let their idea die because of a one-day protest.

    A crippled version can still have a big impact. So we have to keep making noise. I'm betting that they'll let the hysteria and rage die down for awhile. But sometime in the near future they'll try to sneak something similar past us. In a lesser form.
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  • Profile picture of the author hardnova
    Just because we have a temporary win, do not think the UBER RICH Hollywood types who are behind both initiatives will give up. They don't like losing movie and music money to pirates, so expect them to regroup and throw even more cash at our "representatives".

    Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

    Okay. We've been re-opened less than an hour and there have already been a dozen threads on the WF blackout of the Warrior Forum. Let's keep all the comments on that in a single thread.

    Fire away, folks. The good, the bad, and the ugly.


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    True, it isn't over but I think the big boys had no idea what kinda impact this would all have.

    They don't like 2.4 million tweets with their names in it.... and tons of other social network negative posts.

    Imagine, this now showed the congressman that if they DO support this, they are going to have their names slammed all over the internet!!!!

    That is not something for them to take lightly even if they get a lot of money thrown at them.

    This is an election year and each party won't want their candidates tainted by the upset of the "masses".

    Plus, we all still need to keep on the pressure:
    Where do opponents of the bills go next? Non-profit anti-SOPA, anti-PIPA group Fight for the Future writes:

    Approaching Monday’s crucial Senate vote there are now 35 Senators publicly opposing PIPA. Last week there were 5. And it just takes just 41 solid “no” votes to permanently stall PIPA (and SOPA) in the Senate. What seemed like miles away a few weeks ago is now within reach.
    The group urges people to keep the pressure on Congressional members by “calling your Senator every day next week” as well as visiting your Senators’ district offices.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I think the focus of the protest should be more toward the root of the problem, and that's the MPAA - They've proven that they are willing to do anything to guard their Movie making fortunes - including ruining the internet and suing little girls and grandmothers.

    The blackout power these websites used should focus an effort at boycotting any Movies/DVDs backed by the MPAA until the MPAA is dismantled. The MPAA has long outlived it's original purpose.

    They are a transportation company trying to protect their buggy whip profits.
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  • Profile picture of the author paulpower
    This is really an intriguing thing, as SOPA and PIPA will basically kill free speech stone dead in a single heartbeat. This is intriguing because the SOPA and PIPA bills have come about just as Clint Eastwood's film about J Edgar Hoover is being plugged for release here in the UK.
    I am against these bills, as free speech is about the only thing supposed democracies have not taken away from us, but like Hoover and his Mcarthy Witch Hunts in the 50's this will kill all internet small business.

    Don't focus on the fake, focus on what is front of you, if this bill passes in the Senate over in the USA, how long does anyone truly believe it will be before it passes over here in the UK in the House Of Lords.

    Our Governments are looking at the internet because of sites such as Wikileaks, and want us to remain mushrooms, basically kept in the dark and fed on the manure they feed us. Say NO to this, and demand it does not pass in the Senate, and believe me the world is watching with baited breath.

    Take Care
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  • Profile picture of the author Absolute Logo
    I hope we can beat this thing!
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  • Profile picture of the author sonicadam123
    Props to WF for blacking out for the day, sending a strong message.

    Despite how Wikipedia have posted saying 162million people saw their blackout message there were still idiots crying on twitter who didn't seem to understand why Wikipedia went dark ..

    How difficult is it for people to read?

    I think the opposition to SOPA/PIPA is great, but the only thing standing in the way of stopping this is mass stupidity.

    I'm from the UK, and most of my Facebook friends are also from the UK ... there were only a small handful of people on my friends list who mentioned anything to do with SOPA or PIPA ... I think the general public is just not well enough informed and there is always this attitude of "who cares it's not going to affect me".

    I had to explain what it was about to my mum, she didn't get it.

    When I told her that she wouldn't be able to watch comical cover songs or Karaoke videos on Youtube .. or Youtube might be gone forever then she got it.

    I like how Godaddy announced it no longer supported SOPA/PIPA after losing 70,000 customers (ouch).

    I think more of the larger sites should have been supporting it in a bigger way, especially sites that would obviously be hit super hard if these bills were to go through.

    The main reason for this as far as I'm aware is to stop piracy of films etc because it's "killing the industry" - which is fair enough because it's stealing, and none of us would like it if it happened to us.. we all got bills to pay and times are hard in the current financial climate.

    I'm sure you've all seen that anti-piracy ad .. the one that goes "you wouldn't steal a car" .. etc .. and ends with the kid cancelling the download of some pirated film or something ..

    The kicker here is that this music was PIRATED ..and thanks to the motion picture association of america and their affiliates/associates it is on millions and millions of dvd's in homes all across the world.

    So they want to stop piracy but end up pirating someone elses work, makes me sick to be honest - hypocrisy...and people have been sued for doing way less.


    How they got people to support this in the first place is crazy .. I can only think bribery or getting them drunk.
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  • Profile picture of the author Debora Humphries
    I think shutting down the forum got a lot of people looking more closely at the reason why, which of course was SOPA. So, I believe it was a very wise decision.

    We can easily turn our heads and dismiss a lot of things, but I do not believe the issue of SOPA is one of them.

    Anyway, I made it a point to contact my state reps and I'm glad the forum is back open.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Thank you, Allen. Thanks, Paul - and that page was well written.

    To those of you complaining. Tough noogies. This had to be done. Do you think if the website was shut down because of SOPA you would have gotten more notice or something? Consider it a wake up call and get over it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Bradley
      I applaud the WF for taking this stance,sometimes in life you have to take
      tough measures to get your point across.

      Will it resonate with the powers that be?....only time will tell.

      Anyways, I got a heck of a lot more work done yesterday.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Here's another thing to consider...

      Passing a bill and signing it into law is only the first step. Even if they manage to come up with a version that does not set off alarm bells, there is no guarantee that significant changes to the original law won't slide through as riders on benign bills.

      Add 'activist' judges that can effectively rewrite legislation by interpreting case law, and the potential is scary.

      Pre-blackout, I posted a clip from the old Matthew Broderick movie "War Games" with a comment about the Internet equivalent of nuclear war. In the movie, the computer that controls the launch of a nuclear strike mistakes a simulation 'game' for the real thing and starts powering up the missiles. Eventually, the computer runs the simulation enough times to learn that there is no winning strategy. The only way to avoid mutual destruction is to not launch at all.

      I can see the same thing happening online. The Arpanet was conceived and built to keep communication possible in the event of a war. The weakness comes from the assumption that people in different countries would want to communicate.

      What happens when the USA blocks access to sites from certain countries, extending Paul's scenario about Allen blocking India and Pakistan? And those countries retaliate by blocking traffic through their portion of the network, which causes a third bloc to up the stakes?

      If you envision the missile paths in the movie clip as nodes on the 'net, you could see something like SOPA/PIPA evolving into such mutually assured destruction of the Internet.

      There's a reason the US Congress has a single digit approval rating, and the President's rating not much higher...
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  • Profile picture of the author Tor-Sigurd D.R
    Funnily enough, the founder of SOPA (Lamar Smith), had unauthorized copyrighted material on his website. Irony?
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    • Profile picture of the author Richard Van
      Originally Posted by Tor-Sigurd D.R View Post

      Funnily enough, the founder of SOPA (Lamar Smith), had copyrighted material on his website. Irony?
      Yes, I just saw the thread Aussie Al put up (here), assuming that is true, it's so ironic it's not funny.

      You can barely see the image so I can't see how someone in his position has done this.

      No, hang on a second. I can see how someone in his position has done this, because that's how this whole nonsensical thing started.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tor-Sigurd D.R
        Originally Posted by Richard Van View Post

        Yes, I just saw the thread Aussie Al put up (here), assuming that is true, it's so ironic it's not funny.

        You can barely see the image so I can't see how someone in his position has done this.

        No, hang on a second. I can see how someone in his position has done this, because that's how this whole nonsensical thing started.
        I read it somewhere else, the person who wrote it said that day after he posted it, Lamar Smith's site went down for maintanence, and removed google from crawling his archived posts.

        Edit: Man, that cat is HILARIOUS!
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    • Profile picture of the author hotboy18
      I agree it is a contradiction for the founder, Lamar Smith, to have copy written material on his site and then try to force a bill to shut down pirate sites.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tor-Sigurd D.R
        Originally Posted by hotboy18 View Post

        I agree it is a contradiction for the founder, Lamar Smith, to have copy written material on his site and then try to force a bill to shut down pirate sites.
        The problem is that it won't shut down the pirate sites. You can still access them via their IP address.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          John,
          Add 'activist' judges that can effectively rewrite legislation by interpreting case law, and the potential is scary
          I'm not so concerned about "activist" judges as I am about the interpretation of the intent of the Congress.

          If they leave things any kind of vague, you can get all sorts of interpretations. In one district, you might get a judge who says in an edge case, "It was clearly not the intent of the Congress that this law be used to punish interactive sites for the occasional comment that violates the site's posted rules."

          In another district, you might get a judge that says, "It is not the business of this court to read the minds of Congress. Only their words. If the Congress did not intend the law to apply to these situations, it is incumbent on them to make that clear in the wording of the statute."

          Both are reasonable positions for a judge to take, and if they're part of decisions in separate districts, they can each stand as precedents in those districts. Thus, we could have essentially different law in different parts of the country.

          I'm still not a lawyer, and I hope any of our official legal beagles will correct me if I understand the situation incorrectly.


          Paul
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          • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            John,I'm not so concerned about "activist" judges as I am about the interpretation of the intent of the Congress.

            If they leave things any kind of vague, you can get all sorts of interpretations. In one district, you might get a judge who says in an edge case, "It was clearly not the intent of the Congress that this law be used to punish interactive sites for the occasional comment that violates the site's posted rules."

            In another district, you might get a judge that says, "It is not the business of this court to read the minds of Congress. Only their words. If the Congress did not intend the law to apply to these situations, it is incumbent on them to make that clear in the wording of the statute."

            Both are reasonable positions for a judge to take, and if they're part of decisions in separate districts, they can each stand as precedents in those districts. Thus, we could have essentially different law in different parts of the country.

            I'm still not a lawyer, and I hope any of our official legal beagles will correct me if I understand the situation incorrectly.


            Paul
            What happens is a judge decides a certain outcome in a case is appropriate. They can then pick which maxim of interpretation to use to justify that result.

            But the problem is when the next case comes along, the facts will be a little different, so you never really know what the outcome will be.

            Take your statement about the "occasional comment" - what is occasional? It can depend on quantity of comments, as well as overall context, as well as who is doing the commenting. The same comments on different sites could result in different rulings.

            Despite that, and all the hyperbole this week, certain websites are unquestionably free from any concern about SOPA. Google. Wikipedia. Facebook. YouTube. Tumblr.

            They have thousands of copyright violations on any given day and still have zero risk of being shut-down.

            Although not satisfactory, the test for a site subject to being closed may be similar to that once famously said to define obscenity: it cannot be precisely defined, but you know it when you see it.

            .
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
    On page three here...and all I see is a BUNCH of what ifs, and a LOT of speculation, and a LOT MORE misinformation about this bill being spread by people who OBVIOUSLY jumped on the bandwagon of support, without even READING the bill for themselves.

    (Kinda like the Congressmen and women who supported Obamacare - and ADMITTED to not even reading the bill before they voted on it.)

    Speculate till the cows come home, but MANY of the what-ifs you guys are bringing up aren't even in the bill, never have been in the bill, haven't been proposed by ANYONE other than people spreading this fear to further their agenda.

    I asked last night, and I ask again - does ANYONE have ANY solutions for the rampant copyright violations, counterfeiting of goods, prescription medication, and piracy going on....other than blacking out your website?

    Protecting the works of authors and designers is important to me, and many others, or their wouldn't be a copyright office. But it seems like you guys want to have your cake and eat it too, and don't believe anything at all should be done.

    To say that we just turn our heads and hope the issue disappears because we flooded Washington DC switchboards and can do it again is ludicrous.

    IF the hope is that the internet continue to self-regulate without more gov intervention, then real solutions need to be proposed other than taking your own site offline for a day every time this issue is raised.

    I propose that sites be proactive, and if they accept content from outside sources such as users, they need to INDEED verify that the user has the rights to publish such content that the site owner REASONABLY believes the user has no right to - and REMOVE THE CONTENT.

    **

    Regarding Lamar Smith website - IF that is even true and he used a background image without permission(and I haven't seen the evidence that it does, but the 9gag site does indeed have copyrighted imaged on its site like Homer Simpson and Stewie Griffin on its front page alone lol)

    ....is his websites PRIMARY purpose that of piracy? Nope.

    And his site is in the USA, so doesn't even fall under the PROPOSED law...so the answer is NO - his site wouldn't be shut down due to his own legislation - it's not 'funny' - or 'ironic' - it doesn't even apply to USA sites.

    "But what if...."
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Ken Reno View Post

      I asked last night, and I ask again - does ANYONE have ANY solutions for the rampant copyright violations, counterfeiting of goods, prescription medication, and piracy going on....other than blacking out your website?
      The laws on the books already apparently take care of the problem just fine.
      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-new-post.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        The laws on the books already apparently take care of the problem just fine.
        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-new-post.html

        They don't. It took a two year investigation to go after Megaupload. Megaupload was very well known for its harboring stolen (which is what copyright violations of that sort are) video content. A lot of not so rich people lost money due to that in the course of the two year period. People think that the only people who get ripped off are the big media corporations. Like I pointed out in another thread there are a lot of people that make a few nickles of off each sale who didn't get a big hollywood contract payment upfront who rely on some of those royalties.

        I think this backs Kens point. We will be just dealing with the issue again with another name. Content owners are not satisfied with the status quo and we have to be able to see and address their legitimate and legal concerns as well. SOPA wasn't the ticket but like I said in another thread it should open dialogues that lead to better and real solutions. Innovations actually stands to be hurt by the status quo

        We are now at the point where independent music artist and film makers can seriously consider distributing content without even needing the big media companies but there margins are lower and they cannot afford to lose chunks of income from their business model because a megaupload allows people to rip their stuff.
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        • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
          Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

          They don't. It took a two year investigation to go after Megaupload. Megaupload was very well known for its harboring stolen (which is what copyright violations of that sort are) video content. A lot of not so rich people lost money due to that in the course of the two year period. People think that the only people who get ripped off are the big media corporations. Like I pointed out in another thread there are a lot of people that make a few nickles of off each sale who didn't get a big hollywood contract payment upfront who rely on some of those royalties.
          It was two years because they wanted to go after the owners. They wanted to prove the owners did it and even ignored DMCA requests.

          As for indie artists, all the ones I know encourage sharing. They make their money from touring and merchandise besides the actual music.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
            Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post


            As for indie artists, all the ones I know encourage sharing. They make their money from touring and merchandise besides the actual music.
            You mean they TRY and make their money by touring and merchandise and everyone of them hopes they will be at some point be picked up by a label and make real money. In essence they use their music as marketing to leverage present or future music that has to be paid for if even through Itunes. Many don't make that much off those sales and never get the record deal. It underlines yet again that its not just the rich or the famous that get hit by copyright violation but even the poor.
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            • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
              Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

              You mean they TRY and make their money by touring and merchandise and everyone of them hopes they will be at some point be picked up by a label and make real money. In essence they use their music as marketing to leverage present or future music that has to be paid for if even through Itunes. Many don't make that much off those sales and never get the record deal. It underlines yet again that its not just the rich or the famous that get hit by copyright violation but even the poor.
              No. I meant what I said. All the ones *I* know. As in a personal relationship with or follow closely.

              For example: One bad just released a single for an upcoming album and they said get it on iTunes and if you dont want to pay for it, get it from a friend or peer-to-peer. Just get it. They said the same for their last full album.

              They also don't want record deals. A lot of indie bands dont because times are changing and the RIAA and major labels cant deal with it. They are no longer needed.

              -g
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              • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
                Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

                They also don't want record deals. A lot of indie bands dont because times are changing and the RIAA and major labels cant deal with it. They are no longer needed.

                -g
                Yup. The internet and new technology is empowering people to do things that at one time was impossible.

                It started with the invention of digital print and then audio. MP3 players (which, no surprise, the big record labels attempted to sue and have banned) started it. Apple expanded on it. That's not all.

                A few years back, creating and selling PDF's digitally paved the way to circumnavigate publishing houses. Then along came kindle and amazon's createspace.

                Now with further increases in bandwidth and technology, ANYONE can build a business/income with creative entertainment, movies, music, comedy, art, information, etc.

                I spent about 2,000 bucks on software to make music - orchestral and mixing software. That's all I need to start creating music to sell. Some may even need less.

                Movie sales are down at the box office. Why? Economy is part of it...but why pay ever increasing ticket prices? My wife wants to see a new movie but is frustrated because she HAS to see it in 3d, which means paying almost TWICE the price.

                Well, wait about 6 months and have it streamed, for free, to our TV through the internet.

                I believe video games are going this way as well. Tools to create video games are getting cheaper, programming is more widely available and the ability to sell directly to your customers via steam or other channels is eliminating the need for large gaming publishers.

                Finally, companies no longer can count on second hand sales happening in pawn shops and between friends. Places like Ebay, Craigslist and others give good deals on used stuff. A LOT of big companies don't like that. At all. They have no control.

                The solution for ALL of this? SOPA/PIPA. Shut all this down as best possible so we can force people to utilize the "old" channels of purchasing.

                Rob

                EDIT: When I said "why pay 30 bucks when you can get it for free" doesn't mean I'm not paying for it. It means places like netflix, itunes, hulu, (which ARE paid for) I can get all the content I need for much much cheaper and WAY more convenient. Not pirating it.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                  Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post


                  Movie sales are down at the box office. Why? Economy is part of it...but why pay ever increasing ticket prices? My wife wants to see a new movie but is frustrated because she HAS to see it in 3d, which means paying almost TWICE the price.

                  Well, wait about 6 months and have it streamed, for free, to our TV through the internet.
                  Edit: Rob subsequent to this post amended his post by stating that he did not mean free as in piracy but the paid netflix service so the response below was not to his actual position but to the idea of watching movies totally free.

                  I guarantee you that its that mentality that WILL result in the laws like SOPA being passed if theres not a mental turn around. Lets extend the logic

                  Why pay ever increasing prices for a WSO? hijack em
                  Why buy a text book for school? Copy em
                  why pay for any software? crackem

                  You the copyright owner sets your price but if I don't agree with your price (and that my friend is a SLIDING scale totally dependent on who is doing the agreeing) then I get to take what I want for free.

                  This has nothing to do with technology causing a revolution that allow more people to create content cheaper or faster. The guy that is writing the book has no technology that ends his need to eat, no technology that gives him a free house or a paid off mortgage, none that ends his need to clothe his children.

                  The caricature that is used to defend not going after copyright violation is classic class warfare philosophy that the only ones getting hurt are the rich guys so who cares? They should suck it up. Only problem is that the textbook author ain't rich, the band with a new sound that have children and can't get to tour all over to make ends meet isn't rich and the guy doing the WSO may just have some medical bills he needs to get paid.

                  Easier to think its only fat cats that get hurt.

                  By the way have you ever considered that your not wanting to pay the ever increasing prices at the box office is what forces the prices higher not lower? Its part of the equation. And if we all do that then how does the next sequel/movie get made? and if not all then how much more higher will I have to pay to supplement the next guys being entertained for free? and what happens when the higher prices force those of us willing to pay to join the free watchers? Right back to the question of how the next movie gets made

                  Bottom line is sooner or later a society or group that encourages or winks at Copyright violation hurts itself because they create a marketplace that turns away the creative person from considering their creativity a viable business. Textbooks that would have been written have authors abandon the idea. Singers and songwriters that would have come up with new sounds buckle into family pressure that tells them they will never make it (because they can't with people ripping left and right) and movies that are not written with the same color by numbers plots and endings don't get made because the margins are just too thin when you take bootlegs and streaming into account.

                  Thankfully we are not seeing as much of that right now but if the group within our Internet generation that thinks that everything on their screens should be free takes hold as the majority there won't be enough people left to supplement the free watchers for the content to even be made to begin with.
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                  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
                    Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                    I guarantee you that its that mentality that WILL result in the laws like SOPA being passed if theres not a mental turn around. Lets extend the logic

                    Why pay ever increasing prices for a WSO? hijack em
                    Why buy a text book for school? Copy em
                    why pay for any software? crackem
                    No where did he say steal them. He said stream them in 6 months. Which IS the amount of time it takes for them to be available on legit streaming services.

                    I feel the same about movies as Rob. Why pay 10.00/person when in 6 months I can buy it for close to that price or rent it for a fraction?

                    Personally, I wont buy digital movies or much music because I can't resell them later.

                    In the past the options wherent there but today, they are.

                    As far as illegal movies, I'll admit it. I have downloaded a few. Three to be exact. But only because they arent available comercially - not even used. If they where, I'd buy them. I've paid 80.00 for a USED DVD and 300.00 for a USED tv series on DVD.

                    Garrie
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

                They also don't want record deals. A lot of indie bands don't because times are changing and the RIAA and major labels cant deal with it. They are no longer needed.

                -g
                We are not there yet. Who you follow I don't know but not many artists out there will turn down a record deal with significant money if they can make more money doing the exact same Music. Not want record deals? People got to eat Carrie. Tours and merchandizing isn't going to work for lots of bands not for very long. Exactly why should technology mean people get to be entertained for free?
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                • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                  empowering people to do things that at one time was impossible
                  New technology can cut out many of the middlemen from various businesses. We see it as this or that industry's problem - but I think it's much bigger. It's not only entertainment - it's major manufacturers selling directly through their websites. Better prices because direct sales eliminates several levels of distribution (which all add to the cost).

                  There's a movement to a people-to-people product exchange and that threatens a lot of rich people who make money from talented people. It's a good move - but a rocky road. Never mind that many businesses have overloaded the management sector at the expense of the artists and authors and musicians that are the core of the business.
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                • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
                  Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                  We are not there yet. Who you follow I don't know but not many artists out there will turn down a record deal with significant money if they can make more money doing the exact same Music. Not want record deals? People got to eat Carrie. Tours and merchandizing isn't going to work for lots of bands not for very long. Exactly why should technology mean people get to be entertained for free?
                  None of the artists I am talking about will get huge record deals/advances. In the past, the music was the product but now its more of a tool to sell other items.

                  Remember, I am not talking about the Gagas or Biebers. I am talking about true Indie artist who will make just as much on their own w/ touring and merch than a record deal would pay them.

                  The days of needing a record deal are over.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                    Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

                    None of the artists I am talking about will get huge record deals/advances. In the past, the music was the product but now its more of a tool to sell other items.
                    .
                    and yet you immediately excluded successful recording artists to make your point. That very much proves your premise that music is now just merely to sell another product as utterly false.

                    So certainly if the Indie has no commercial prospects to speak of then why not give away the music for free and hope for another income stream? How does that address the industry as a whole? Thats a world away from saying that they wouldn't want or be better off with real income directly from their music.

                    You can write it ten more times the sales figures for artist with record deals indicates the days of selling music directly for itself are FAR from over. I 'd like to support a marketplace that makes it easier for the guy with a special musical talent to do what he does and still make a living directly from his work. I see no reason why that should be any different from someone who creates a physical product.
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                    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
                      Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

                      and yet you immediately excluded successful recording artists to make your point. That very much proves your premise that music is now just merely to sell another product as utterly false.
                      Because they are anomolies. They are not the norm by any means.

                      I also NEVER. EVER. said all music. I said that *I* know. Go read all my posts again.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                      Originally Posted by NY1 View Post

                      The CD/cassette/record was ALWAYS the loss leader. That *is* the business model. You would know that if you knew what you were talking about right now.

                      It's the loss leader for concerts and merchandise sales. Has been since the 60's.
                      In order for you to know what you were talking about you would have to claim that records do not achieve or aim to make profit or they could not constitute the definition of a loss leader. If you are talking exclusively about their sales at concerts thats not what I was referring to.

                      At any rate your point is simply rebutted by the fact that records are released every year where the artist does no significant concert tours and sells no major merchandise and they are not made for the purpose of losing money. Piracy hurts many music artists and theres no doubt about that whatsoever.

                      Anyway enough of SOPA piracy talk for me.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                        Jody,
                        just for the record - I don't condone piracy nor hacking. I posted about megaupload because of the timing - it demonstrates the Fed's can take these sites down without SOPA.
                        You were not one of the people I was talking about.

                        Some of the comments in one thread got close to the line, but the topic itself is relevant.


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              • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
                Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post


                They also don't want record deals. A lot of indie bands dont because times are changing and the RIAA and major labels cant deal with it. They are no longer needed.

                -g
                in much the same way traditional publishing houses can't deal with Kindle, Lulu, etc...

                times have changed, and people and businesses have to follow suit, or get eaten alive.
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  • Profile picture of the author solado
    this video is the most relevant as of this moment in time


    If you are not a word the first of the censorship has begun with megaupload being taken down. You can check this if you don't believe me, and thus our rights are starting to be taken away from slowly.
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  • Profile picture of the author ebizman
    Yeahhhhhh Vote AGAINST Sopa!!!!

    Don't let the Feds take away our Internet freedom!!!

    Ebizman
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      And it looks like Anonymous may be the cause of justice.gov going offline today just after the takedown went public. Check out the link in my post on this thread: Megaupload? - Looks like justice.gov may be getting hammered
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      • Profile picture of the author waterotter
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        And it looks like Anonymous may be the cause of justice.gov going offline today just after the takedown went public. Check out the link in my post on this thread: Megaupload? - Looks like justice.gov may be getting hammered
        A group from Sweden took responsibility for that - they claim FBI.gov is next.

        Seems cyberwarefare has begun.
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by waterotter View Post

          A group from Sweden took responsibility for that - they claim FBI.gov is next.

          Seems cyberwarefare has begun.
          I just posted that same thing in another thread. As I said in there - I expected our gov to start WWIII -- and at this point I do think that cyberwarfare is going to go full tilt this time. Revolutions are known to happen when governments start to make grabs at what isn't theirs to take. Someday power will recognize its limitations.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
      Thank you WF for shutting down to remind us of the gravity of SOPA and PIPA!

      I have no problem with the INTENT of the bill: to stop copyright infringement and prosecute offenders. But the execution of it is HORRENDOUS.

      Censorship of foreign websites? Websites shut down WITHOUT DUE PROCESS (i.e. notification of infringement, offender given time to take stuff down, etc.)???? Even criminals have a right to due process and as I understand it, arrest warrants can't be issued without probable cause. Yet entire websites, their advertising links and payment processing can be shut down based just on ALLEGED infringements???

      It's OUTRAGEOUS! (Not to mention all of the problems with making a website legally responsible for user-generated content, etc.)

      I called all of my Congressmen yesterday (Representatives and Senators) and voiced my opposition to the bills. Most were interested in hearing from me, but a couple who were co-sponsors were frosty.

      I'm THRILLED to see support for SOPA and PIPA dropping. It's SO gratifying to see Congress responding to our protests.

      However, as others have mentioned earlier, this isn't over. They'll try and pass another version quietly after all of the hullabaloo has died down. We need to remain vigilant and speak out when they try this again.

      I'm all for protecting our intellectual property. But I'm LIVID with the Motion Picture Association for pushing something that would curtail our freedoms so drastically. I'd love to see a boycott of movies, but that probably won't happen.

      But for now, I am VERY pleased at the success of this grassroots protest.

      Michelle
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      • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
        ...I do not condone piracy. I just find the following to be interesting:



        Seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, that sites like Megaupload and the software Limewire simply ended up doing it better then the original distributors and became more popular which cut out sites like CNET, as far as advertising profits go. Makes me wonder if Viacom, AOL, Disney, Microsoft etc. would be backing bills such as SOPA so diligently if they could still be the ones profiting.

        Was this mess created by those who now oppose it and are in full support of SOPA?

        What will the end result be? A regulated internet where those with the most funding dedicated to lobbying for exposure can profit again? How about a system of regulation where payment is required to do business? A system where a large part of the profits generated by free enterprise online can be taxed and controlled. I think that is the goal of bills such as SOPA, to gain control and turn it into the same thing as...oh I dunno, for example... The Better Business Bureau...


        Is free enterprise still the American way? SOPA is a stepping stone to tyranny.

        free en·ter·prise

        Noun:An economic system in which private business operates in competition and largely free of state control.
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        • Profile picture of the author David McKee
          Has anyone noticed that Google put on its little "Blackout" bar trying to look like it is against SOPA, but all the while it engages in SOPA tactics? For example, Alex Jones "Prison Planet" and "Info Wars" (Regardless of what you might think of them personally) is a legitimate news source and feed that is often quoted by other news feeds, yet Google has de-listed them from their "So-call" news searches. Apparently they don't want the government doing what they alone want to do. (read about it here: » Google Is Already Using SOPA-Like Censorship Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!)

          On top of that it has been reported that Google is removing YouTube videos that criticize the government, especially certain individuals within it... Good thing there are other video sites like "MegaVideo" ...oops, I'm sorry, that site was taken down yesterday.

          As I have said repeatedly on this site, everything the US government touches turns to fecal matter.

          It is starting to look like it is time to build another Internet around the current one, because this one is starting to look like everything else the government puts its hands on. Good thing most people who work for the government are not smart enough to keep up - of course at this rate we will all be working for it, or be pursued by it.

          As stated by many before, the "Intent" of the bills in question: to stop theft, to stop a variety of horrific crimes against minors and others is laudable, but the devil is always in the details. The implementation of this bill will end up doing the reverse of its intent, and will cause more harm than good.

          -DTM
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
          Originally Posted by NicheMayhem View Post

          ...I do not condone piracy

          Unfortunately statements like that when followed by defenses or admiration for Megaload come across to some of us similar to when someone states

          "I am not one to get into people's private business"

          Just before they prove they are that person. Given the clear evidence of what Megaload was into it would be better to leave them out of the SOPA talking points. Bringing them up in the way many people are leaves the distinct impression that a sizable group within the anti SOPA camp are apathetic to copyright violations in general.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            a sizable group within the anti SOPA camp are apathetic to copyright violations in general.
            Mike - I think it goes farther than that. There are people and groups that were very active in the anti-SOPA issue that want nothing done to restrict or regulate piracy or copyright violation. They label anything they don't like as "censorship" and claim by hacking they are "making a statement". I think they are as dangerous to the future of the internet as the SOPA bill could be.

            kay
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          • Profile picture of the author NicheMayhem
            Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

            Unfortunately statements like that when followed by defenses or admiration for Megaload come across to some of us similar to when someone states

            "I am not one to get into people's private business"

            Just before they prove they are that person. Given the clear evidence of what Megaload was into it would be better to leave them out of the SOPA talking points. Bringing them up in the way many people are leaves the distinct impression that a sizable group within the anti SOPA camp are apathetic to copyright violations in general.
            I was too busy to address your misinterpretation of my post today so apologies for the lateness of my reply. You seem to be throwing a lot of accusations around in here and causing many to defend themselves.

            What you misunderstood about what I had to say about Megaupload was simply that they must have just been better at what they were doing then the originals which CNET.com openly distributed and had instructions on how to use. The Megaupload guy had a huge mansion and 50 million dollars to be seized so I do think it is safe to assume it became more popular then what CNET accomplished in the beginning.

            Ten years ago Microsoft made the ability to rip music CDs standard software on the billions of PCs they sold. Viacom, backed by many who are now involved in supporting SOPA, made available the sharing software which practically everybody downloaded and used to get MP3s. Major corporations funded and profited from the distribution of sharing software and we all skipped through the daisies impressed by new technology together.

            You may feel obligated to twist those facts into me supporting piracy but I don't. I just feel it is relevant to consider the fact that those who profited from a natural progression of technology should take a bit more responsibility in the state of things then to rush in crying foul play and condemning a vast majority of the population with fines and jail time for doing exactly what they taught us to do. They provided the tools and the masses followed right along.

            We can all sit here and discuss how unfair piracy is until the cows come home but ultimately, the idea was turned into profit by most of the big business which now takes a sneaky righteous seat in the trek to stop it.

            You feel pirates created the marketplace as it is and I feel just about everybody had a hand in what it has become. The government wants to utilize that to gain control and appease big business, period. Doing so under the notion they are fighting piracy is ridiculous and people need to realize that.

            Technology changes and marketplaces evolve. We as marketers must follow the trends and adapt to innovation, why shouldn't Hollywood?

            Here is this video again.


            Anybody care to discredit what this guy has to say? Anybody remember the days of dial up and how sharing all got started? Now it is rampant and out of control which should bring about innovation and changes not fines and jail time or our government taking complete control.

            Doesn't Netflix take steps to make sure the movies they stream cannot be copied? Why can't movie makers innovate and develop a new way to encode their product? If our computers didn't have the ability to play the new movies and required specific encoding wouldn't that be more effective at stopping piracy? Why is jailing pirates and fining downloaders the only option anyone ever talks about? :confused: Movie makers develop a product the masses want, it should be up to them to combat piracy and develop a new way to distribute their product which they are able to control.

            I cannot just place a DVD in my drive and copy it. Special software is needed to do that. Why aren't the tools used to duplicate the media being shared targeted? I'm not all that knowledgeable on exactly how a DVD gets encoded or duplicated but it just seems to me it would be more feasible for those who produce them to work on a new system that does not give the average consumer the ability to copy it and distribute it rather then put people in jail.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nbroquis
    Wow I don't know if my internet is messed up but I went to megaupload.com and it doesn't load anything ... Just blank page... I am so sick of this country and their laws trying to control all of us
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  • Profile picture of the author RyanJohnson
    At least Paul got a day off from the forum....
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Ryan,
      At least Paul got a day off from the forum....
      You clearly have no idea what my email inbox looked like yesterday.

      I spent more time on this issue yesterday than I normally would moderating for any two days. And no, that's not a complaint.


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  • Profile picture of the author sonicadam123
    Read a great article earlier about how Hollywood was actually founded on the basis of stealing other peoples idea's ... hense why all the studios originally moved to Hollywood because their wasn't any copyright, no patent laws and they could rip off peoples intellectual copyright and make shed loads of cash.

    Now they're hugely successful and crying because they're going to "lose control" ... simply because people are doing what they did ...

    Another thing made me chuckle a bit .. in Swedish SOPA means trash, PIPA means PIPE - shows what they want the internet to be ... a pipe to throw their trash down.


    What I hate to admit is that most "laws" it seems in the US aren't written by law makers, they're written by people behind the scenes ... main ones that come to mind really are banking laws .. written by bankers, not law makers - then pushed through congress via bribery and other means.


    I think something needs to be done, but if the people making these laws are only doing so out of self interest and not because of protecting peoples intellectual piracy .. well just protecting their own ... then it won't work.

    Currently the US Government has been taking down sites without SOPA/PIPA going through .. so they can do this without new legislation ... the problem is they do it based on no proof, in one case it was the word of one guy who wasn't in a position to reveal anything incriminating about the site in question ... yet they still shut the site down for over a year
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    [sigh] Let me Google this for you...

    The Berne Convention, first accepted in 1886: Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    List of signatory nations, with dates of acceptance: WIPO-Administered Treaties
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      [sigh] Let me Google this for you...

      The Berne Convention, first accepted in 1886: Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      List of signatory nations, with dates of acceptance: WIPO-Administered Treaties
      Thanks for that Paul - it lists all the countries that have signed the treaty.

      It doesn't show how the treaty is enforced, or what the consequences are for non-compliance.

      Apparently there are none, or we wouldn't be talking about it.

      [sigh]

      --EDIT--

      Thanks for all you do Paul - I appreciate the opportunity to discuss such serious problems with someone who know wth they are talking about, and can see past the politics of this.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
        Originally Posted by newjerseycrown View Post

        Anonymous hit them right back. Unfortunately the sites they hit get 0 traffic
        So you support the hackers criminal acts, and it was unfortunate they didn't hit a site that got a lot of traffic?

        Ok thanks for sharing that!
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    Now I am against criminals, hackers, cracker and all the other crim types out there.

    But people, wake up and smell the coffee beans.

    This is just playing a small part in how the government are going to control you more, and such movements at the occupy movements in the US.

    Think about it for a second. What do these leaders, and the elite those who are really in control, who organised the economic collapse have. POWER and CONTROL....

    and then..ok...answer me this...

    What do people with POWER and CONTROL want more of???

    SIMPLE.....more power and control.

    time to wake up was Yesterday. Comon guys!!!

    Better get ready, there are bigger things to come.

    Truth is alot deeper then many people think. Probably including myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Ken,
    Paul, just because I have another opinion, doesn't mean that I don't 'get it'. It doesn't mean my questions are 'nonsense'. It doesn't mean I don't have a clue. It doesn't mean I'm retarded.
    Ummm... Where did I say you were retarded? That isn't a word I use often, and usually not in this kind of context.

    Your opinion isn't why I said you don't "get it." The fact that your arguments have little to no correlation to what you're attempting to rebut is why I said that. That and the fact you keep insisting on solutions, when we're pointing out just how hard workable solutions are.

    Oh, and making unsupportable allegations about everyone else's thinking and degree of social involvement.
    Threats to ban people or put them in a time out doesn't sound like free speech to me. I know this is a 'private forum', and free speech isn't a right here, but it's supposedly the outcry for this protest movement. That's ironic don't you think?
    Nope. I am not the government, and I am not interfering with the rights of others to speak their minds in their own spaces. I am acting as a moderator here, and enforcing the rules of the guy who owns the place.

    To put it in context: Next time you get drunk and stupid in a bar, tell the bouncer about free speech.

    That's what people are behaving like when they defend or promote piracy in this forum. Loud, stupid drunks.

    As far as the avatars, I've told a few people to change them, and removed them when they refused. There are too many to go after, still get rid of the spam, and have any time left for my own business. Would you like to be the Avatar Police, Ken?


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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Q
    Banned
    I think we have a huge ally to oppose the horrible SOPA:

    Obama Says So Long SOPA, Killing Controversial Internet Piracy Legislation - Forbes
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Top 5 Objections to SOPA, PIPA | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

      Interesting examination of major SOPA points in that article published yesterday - an analysis that examines rather than argues or exaggerates.

      There will be more internet regulations proposed - it's inevitable. I think the goal of those who work online should be to make sure any regulation passed is necessary, tightly defined and focused. We have to stay informed, alert and involved.

      I think there is some risk in assuming any regulation proposed is bad or an attempt at censorship - and some people seem to have that opinion. It's important to fight against bad legislation like SOPA but also important to be part of a solution to problems we know exist...when and if a proposed solution makes sense and is workable.

      kay
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    SOPA SOPA SOPA....blah blah blah.

    How about we make some money from this stuff.

    Who want to joint venture me in a multi million dollar a year business, now we have a nice keyword to play with. SEO will be easy.

    Gunna call it, SOPA on a ROPE it will be a cheap piece of soap on a rope and we will give a discount to those that get caught and locked up for piracy. This is going to make a mint I promise.

    comon who wants in. This is a lucrative opportunity. lets make money from this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Can I have the Italian franchise? Sopa-on-a-Ropa....
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    • Profile picture of the author geolocal
      I signed the Google petition, then shared via Twitter, FB and G+

      When I got to WF and saw the message, I did exactly what was requested -- wrote and mailed physical letters to my 3 senators/reps. Only took 30 minutes ... WAY LESS time than I would have spent on WF reading and researching ideas.

      Then I posted a sample letter on FB and encouraged others to send them.

      So in my case, the WF blackout resulted in 3 letters being sent to urging Congress to stop SOPA and PIPA. If even half WF members did the same, that would be almost a million letters landing in Washington in the next couple days.

      Thanks Allen, that was brilliant...
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Now for your amusement, the best Sopa page I found during the blackout was


    TheOatmeal.com blacked out in protest of SOPA / PIPA - The Oatmeal
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Rob - that's about the best explanation I've heard yet. Large corps are in trouble and trying to save their butts - that's why they spent so much money lobbying for this bill. They've been suing copyright infringers forever. It's not that difficult for them. It is that difficult for them to keep up with changing technology, though. They are losing out, not to pirates - but to entrepreneurs. It seems like they figured they never had to devise ways to keep up with the changing technology and economy........since they've been able to always just buy political reps, why bother, right?

    This won't be the first gov to try to eliminate entrepreneurial ventures. It would be the biggest mistake in the attempt to fix the economy. They would win control over people's lives - but those people won't be able to afford to buy what they have anyway so what's the sense? Rather than try to squelch entrepreneurs, they should spend their time revising how their businesses operate. The protest, if it results in SOPA getting killed, will be the most important testimony to corporations that we can make. Buying our gov isn't the way you promote your business. Even if SOPA were voted up, it still only takes a major boycott to kill a company. People might be remembering that now. It was the way we used to kill companies that we hated. We can do it again, and with the fury building, we can do it again. We need to leave them only one recourse - change their business model like everyone else has to do when paying our leaders no longer works for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author waterotter
    SOPA and PIPA were dropped by Congress today - the votes we've been scrambling to mobilize against have been cancelled.

    The largest online protest in history has fundamentally changed the game. We were heard.

    This from an email I just received "This was unprecedented. Your activism may have changed the way people fight for the public interest and basic rights forever."

    We need to keep the pressure on, this is just the beginning.

    @ Paul - just for the record - I don't condone piracy nor hacking. I posted about megaupload because of the timing - it demonstrates the Fed's can take these sites down without SOPA.

    And "no", I have never used megaupload. I have never visited their website.

    On the 18th, I was doing my part here in Canada educating, spreading the word and getting Canadians involved.

    If you feel I need a holiday, I understand.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Mike, I pay for netflix and am looking at Hulu premium. Why spend 30 bucks to go to the movies when I can get it for free (basically, 14 bucks a month to get all the content I could need) via netflix or hulu and never need to leave my home?

    THAT'S what I'm talking about. And THAT'S what a lot of major corporations are fighting. Piracy can't be stopped.

    Instead, the entertainment industry is flailing about like a baby who doesn't know how to cope with being told "no".

    Examples:

    - Suing their customers.
    - Threatening families who upload videos with a radio playing in the background
    - Suing and fighting new technology (MP3 players, trying to force apple to increase prices on itunes)
    - Threatening our President with lobby dollars: Chris Dodd Warns of Hollywood Backlash Against Obama Over Anti-Piracy Bill [Bribery?]

    Check this out: Why The Demise Of SOPA Is Good For Brands - Forbes

    In that link, Coca-Cola is given as a company who 'gets it'. They found a website started by two Coca Cola fans as a fan site and instead of sending them a cease and desist letter, they embraced the new site and helped build it and it's facebook page to massive numbers.

    With the internet comes personal connections. And what the industry is really fighting has nothing to do with piracy.

    It has everything to do with fighting the way we communicate with each other. It's about control, ultimately. Instead of becoming part of a huge conversation, they want it to be one sided, with us shutting up and spending our dollars as told.

    Instead, they could be making MORE money by embracing this scarey new world and utilizing even the pirating to their advantage.

    BTW - I have my WSO's and products pirated everyday. And you know what I say? GOOD. Bigger audience reach, more people consuming my information, and more people who are visiting my sites, more people getting on my lists, more people who see my ads, and some who eventually buy.

    I'm doing just fine, not really affected one bit. Since I can't put a number on losses or gains with pirates, I don't. Instead, I focus on making sure my customers are happy, and my products are good and worth the money.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Mike, I pay for netflix and am looking at Hulu premium. Why spend 30 bucks to go to the movies when I can get it for free (basically, 14 bucks a month to get all the content I could need) via netflix or hulu and never need to leave my home?
      CCMusicman,

      A) First thats not free as your earlier post stated which is why I wrote what I wrote. that content IS paid for. I have a netflix subscription myself. It most definitely is not free as you stated so thats where the misunderstanding arose.

      B) Netflix and as far as I am aware Hulu do not offer a great wealth of movies at this time by streaming. Not compared to all that is out there so you would still have no answer for why pay higher prices on those.

      THAT'S what I'm talking about. And THAT'S what a lot of major corporations are fighting. Piracy can't be stopped.
      Not sure what you are talking about but to my knowledge Netflix could not show those videos if the corporations were fighting against them. Netflix is legal and legit and has the legal blessing of those said corporations.

      SOPA is not my issue as I did not support it as I do not support a great deal of things you brought up. Anti SOPA is not synonymous with supporting the status quo on piracy.

      BTW - I have my WSO's and products pirated everyday. And you know what I say? GOOD. Bigger audience reach, more people consuming my information, and more people who are visiting my sites, more people getting on my lists, more people who see my ads, and some who eventually buy.
      Good kindly forward all of your products to all of us and we will do what we want with them. Remove your links and your ads and even redirect them to our own sites. Will you still say good? Of course not. Claiming that businesses should embrace piracy is not a good point. It may be impossible to completely stamp out but there is no reason to criticize businesses for not embracing it. No win the example you cited I quite agree that a lot goes too far. To me the mere incidental music in the background of a you tube video and going after fan sites is going too far.

      Why are all these bills being passed wanting to tax Amazon.com (or any online physical purchase) for some states? Because big box stores are fighting the very same problem.
      Not seeing that. The main impetus behind wanting to tax online purchases is government revenue. Movies companies allowing Netflix to stream their stuff does not require a tax. Piracy issue has nothing to do with service, convenience or pricing. I don't even know how Amazon versus brick and mortar comes into it. Two separate issues. Piracy is stealing and does not lead to lower prices only higher ones for those who do pay.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
        Originally Posted by Mike Anthony View Post

        Good kindly forward all of your products to all of us and we will do what we want with them. Remove your links and your ads and even redirect them to our own sites. Will you still say good? Of course not.
        Mike, the gist of my message is simple: Piracy can't be stopped. Period. Be a pain in the ass to your customers, piss people off, go around suing them, and whine/fight like a baby is not going to create loyal customers.

        All these companies are doing is causing a LOT of bad images of themselves. If they stopped worrying about piracy, and started making:

        1. Easier for their customers to get their material, faster, and if possible cheaper.

        2. Create better products.

        3. Do things that increase "good vibes" among the communities who utilize their product.

        An example: Lucasarts, Star Wars, and their video games. They allow what other companies would sue till oblivion about - they allow people to freely:

        1. Use their IP as a basis for mods for other games.
        2. Use their IP to create fan material.
        3. Use their IP to create other books, and videos.

        They love their community and embrace them. You won't see people getting sued by them for interacting with their IP.


        As far as pirating goes - I absolutely refuse to do anything that would affect my customers ability to use the product. I'm also not going to waste my time chasing down every pirate when instead I could be making money by interacting and creating new content for my customers.

        That's what I'm ultimately saying.

        Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Yup - I'm not pirating, legit streaming from paid for services.

    I'm going to a movie today and only because we want to see it now. It's also the first movie we've gone to in like 6 or 8 months or more.

    But this is the trend.

    Increase convenience for customers, have good customer service and (if possible) lower the price and you have a winning combo. (If a need is met)

    Why are all these bills being passed wanting to tax Amazon.com (or any online physical purchase) for some states? Because big box stores are fighting the very same problem.

    Amazon is convenient, easy to use and navigate, has great customer service (I've never once had a problem with anything regarding Amazon and they will basically no-hassle refund anyone for anything, basically) and has great stock. They have free shipping deals, which means that shopping online is super simple.

    Their great business model, intelligent store usage and top notch service is an example for a lot of businesses - including the entertainment industry.

    Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author jgant
    I was pleased 3 of the Republican candidates in last night's Souther Republican Primary debate (Governor Romney, Speaker Gingrich and Congressman Paul) oppose SOPA as it is now. Senator Santorum wasn't as clear.

    I'm not a Republican, but I'm pleased these high-profile politicians are pro-freedom and instead suggest that there are civil remedies to address copyright infringement.

    Frankly I was surprised at their unequivical stance on the issue.
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by jgant View Post

      I was pleased 3 of the Republican candidates in last night's Souther Republican Primary debate (Governor Romney, Speaker Gingrich and Congressman Paul) oppose SOPA as it is now. Senator Santorum wasn't as clear.
      .
      There are probably people in high places telling them to do that, to get more votes. I mean what with the elections and stuff coming up.

      This whole sopa thing is a joke.
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  • Profile picture of the author sadiecopywriter
    I actually wrote to my representative , and this is what he said. Nice to know someone up there gets it.


    Thank you for reaching out to me about H.R. 3261 - The Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). I appreciate you taking the time to contact me and I am happy to respond.

    I share your concerns with the SOPA Act, and I strongly oppose it. The bill would authorize the U.S. Attorney General to take legal action against an "Internet site dedicated to infringing activities." SOPA would require the federal government to block websites that are simply accused of copyright infringement, in effect labeling these sites "guilty until proven innocent", with a complicated and expensive appeals process to be proven innocent. The definition is so broad that it could shut down well meaning sites due to a single item being sold on e-Bay, or a single post on Facebook, etc.

    Our founding fathers warned us about the slippery slope of government control. SOPA would give the federal government far reaching powers to regulate the internet, powers which it does not need and should not have. SOPA would also stifle innovation and hurt the many jobs that come from the internet. These outcomes are unacceptable, and that is why I oppose this legislation.

    Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mercedes,
      SOPA would require the federal government to block websites that are simply accused of copyright infringement, in effect labeling these sites "guilty until proven innocent", with a complicated and expensive appeals process to be proven innocent. The definition is so broad that it could shut down well meaning sites due to a single item being sold on e-Bay, or a single post on Facebook, etc.
      Who is this person? And is this from a source that can be quoted, or was it private correspondence?


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Mercedes,Who is this person? And is this from a source that can be quoted, or was it private correspondence?


        Paul

        ...And has (s)he asked you for donations yet?
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Mike,
          ...And has (s)he asked you for donations yet?
          Donations? Hell, if Mike Kelly sent me a note like that, I'd probably volunteer to canvass for him.


          Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author sadiecopywriter
        Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

        Mercedes,Who is this person? And is this from a source that can be quoted, or was it private correspondence?


        Paul
        It was through an email. Of course I don't know how 'private' those are since you always see on TV that emails can be used in court.

        I am saving it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Interesting analysis of the MPAAs figures showing the REAL effect of SOPA on jobs and the economy:

    Cato Institute Digs Into MPAA's Own Research To Show That SOPA Wouldn't Save A Single Net Job | Techdirt
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    LOL yeah actually, this whole thing has made me interested in activism. Now I just need a cause...
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Mike,
      LOL yeah actually, this whole thing has made me interested in activism. Now I just need a cause...
      Save Wales!

      (I understand they're suffering a critical shortage of vowels...)


      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I thought it was consonants that were in short supply. Damn - learn something here every day.:p
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Kay,
          I thought it was consonants that were in short supply. Damn - learn something here every day.:p
          It changes with the seasons, I believe. The vowels migrate.


          Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    Ohch, my ribs hurt, stop it!!!
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Maybe that's why I have hmmngbrds in the spring? They dump excess weight by leaving their vowels up north. In an odd way, it makes sense.
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      • Profile picture of the author Cali16
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Maybe that's why I have hmmngbrds in the spring? They dump excess weight by leaving their vowels up north. In an odd way, it makes sense.
        Speaking of migration, this thread has certainly migrated off topic!
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
          Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

          Speaking of migration, this thread has certainly migrated off topic!


          To be fair, after 230+ posts of opinions and nothing really new in the "News" yet... We can bring it back in a couple weeks when this is all repeated.


          ...But I'm serious. I've been so lazy all these years with charities, giving people change to shut them up and not really donating my time. "Boredom" may be a terrible motivation, but I think I'm going to look for a "cause"
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
          Spkng f mgrtn, ths thrd hs crtnl mgrtd ff tpc!
          Tht's bttr.

          Sv Wls! Dmp yr vwls!
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Tht's bttr.

            Sv Wls! Dmp yr vwls!
            rtflm!!!
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          • Profile picture of the author Cali16
            Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

            Tht's bttr.

            Sv Wls! Dmp yr vwls!
            LL!! Thnks fr th lgh, Pl!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author MaryK
    Kudos to the Warrior Forum Team! This legislation is the most appalling I have ever seen regarding the right of free speech. It will affect everyone doing business of the internet. As said in previous comments, want to shut down the competition, just bleat to Uncle Sam.

    The 'official' stand in Australian press is the old hoary chestnut "security". Anyone believing that needs to come back to planet earth, or awaken from their Rip Van Winkle sleep.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin Riley
      Don't know if this has been posted here yet, but put this on your calendar (see below). We may have won the battle (SOPA & PIPA) but the war is not over. Stay vigilant. Let your voices be heard.

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      • Profile picture of the author Jeffery
        Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

        Don't know if this has been posted here yet, but put this on your calendar (see below). We may have won the battle (SOPA & PIPA) but the war is not over. Stay vigilant. Let your voices be heard.

        Okay Kevin, I'm all for it. Ran this by Marissa and she was not for it until I told her it is your idea.. she said "Oh, okay." :-)

        Good idea!

        Jeffery 100% :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author danlew
    I think this is the best news I've ever seen, I can finally calm down:

    SOPA Is Dead: Smith Pulls Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by Kevin Riley View Post

      Don't know if this has been posted here yet, but put this on your calendar (see below). We may have won the battle (SOPA & PIPA) but the war is not over. Stay vigilant. Let your voices be heard.

      Now this is the kind of action I want to see against them!




      Originally Posted by danlew View Post

      I think this is the best news I've ever seen, I can finally calm down:

      SOPA Is Dead: Smith Pulls Bill

      Not "dead" just "playing 'possum"
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  • Profile picture of the author Ken Reno
    Wow - the Megaupload site is taken down for what 99% of you KNOW to be piracy, but it's still the record companies fault for trying to protect THEIR intellectual property? And that's an outrage, it's time to take a stand?

    They should just be silent. Fire all their lobbyists. Not represent their LEGAL obligation to protect their artists they've signed, or their stockholders. Just take the losses and neglect their responsibility. Is that what they should do? If not - what EXACTLY is your goal - what's the ideal outcome?

    So let's advocate a measure that will hurt the economy and stock markets so Governments will take notice. Think they haven't noticed?

    Nevermind that these are corporations (read 'evil corporations'), made up of stockholders, individual PEOPLE, and again - it's their property we're talking about - not yours?

    Your new boycott will REALLY solve the piracy issue once and for all.

    I thought I was done with this thread till I saw this...

    To quote a wise man:

    "That's highly illogical." ~ Mr.Spock


    ****EDIT****

    There are movements who advocate the same thing....their goal is to collapse the world economy altogether - get rid of the evil corporations, the Wall Street fat cats, anyone who is successful...you guys should hook up with them - you have the same goal it appears - advocating economic warfare against LEGAL companies who lobby to protect their interests.

    Will the Revolution be televised?

    ***

    And will the boycott work?

    Read up on what happens when boycotts ask buyers not to purchase for a period, but to purchase later.

    Guess what happens? They do.

    Why not just give up music and movies produced by the no-gooders for the rest of your life - you know - REALLY take a STAND?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      If the music industry is doing something you despise - what's the point of a time limited boycott? Why not just stop buying their products....period. Read books instead of watching movies. Listen to the radio or TV music stations instead of buying any musical products.....and keep doing it over time. What I see in proposed protests is the wish to flex muscles without having to give up anything.

      I see many of these recent proposed "protests" as attempts to censor what others do. They are making a statement instead of taking a stand. They are defending their "rights" by trying to limit the rights of others to have a different opinion.

      Any time those in power can get "the people" to fight among themselves, there's a perfect opportunity to step in and "restore order" legislatively.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post


        Any time those in power can get "the people" to fight among themselves, there's a perfect opportunity to step in and "restore order" legislatively.
        exactly. Nanny-state-ism and collectivism at it's absolute finest.

        "Who is John Galt?"

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        • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
          After looking into the subject more thoroughly, the main issues I am left with are these:

          1. The fact that this specific legislation was limited to foreign websites doesn't comfort me much. Governmental power grabs often start with an initial push which is limited in a way that makes it palatable, followed later by a broadening of the policy beyond those limits once it is established.

          2. Ditto above about the fact that the legislation only labels sites which have no other purpose than facilitating copyright infringement as targets.

          3. If we allow a mechanism to be set up by which the government can limit our access to foreign internet sites, we have no guarantee that future office holders will use that power justly.

          And a couple of other thoughts, but they will have to wait for now.

          Jon
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      Originally Posted by Ken Reno View Post

      Wow - the Megaupload site is taken down for what 99% of you KNOW to be piracy, but it's still the record companies fault for trying to protect THEIR intellectual property? And that's an outrage, it's time to take a stand?

      They should just be silent. Fire all their lobbyists. Not represent their LEGAL obligation to protect their artists they've signed, or their stockholders. Just take the losses and neglect their responsibility. Is that what they should do? If not - what EXACTLY is your goal - what's the ideal outcome?

      So let's advocate a measure that will hurt the economy and stock markets so Governments will take notice. Think they haven't noticed?

      Nevermind that these are corporations (read 'evil corporations'), made up of stockholders, individual PEOPLE, and again - it's their property we're talking about - not yours?

      Your new boycott will REALLY solve the piracy issue once and for all.

      I thought I was done with this thread till I saw this...

      To quote a wise man:

      "That's highly illogical." ~ Mr.Spock


      ****EDIT****

      There are movements who advocate the same thing....their goal is to collapse the world economy altogether - get rid of the evil corporations, the Wall Street fat cats, anyone who is successful...you guys should hook up with them - you have the same goal it appears - advocating economic warfare against LEGAL companies who lobby to protect their interests.

      Will the Revolution be televised?

      ***

      And will the boycott work?

      Read up on what happens when boycotts ask buyers not to purchase for a period, but to purchase later.

      Guess what happens? They do.

      Why not just give up music and movies produced by the no-gooders for the rest of your life - you know - REALLY take a STAND?
      Ken, if you were to do a little bit of investigating, you will find out, as I just did, that some of the very companies who are trying to push through these bills are the very companies who created file-sharing software to begin with.

      why did they do that? so that they could then turn around crying copyright infringement/piracy and lobby government officials to create a bill that would allow them to censor and completely control the Internet.

      Talk about hypocrisy and pure evil. Do I think copyright infringement is wrong? It's not so black and white anymore, is it?

      Here's what I think is actually happening: big corporations are threatened by the most humblest of people who can now become self-employed, self-sufficient, and most importantly, informed, because of the Internet. They don't like that. They want us scared, dumb and needy, so that they can control us. Hence these bills.

      ..."who is John Galt?"
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