why I HATE "cautious" marketing

104 replies
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Have you ever heard the advice: "Blast your list with content and send them an offer every once in a while?"

THAT IS SO DUMB.

Here's the deal. I BLAST my list with content in EACH email AND at the end I give them an opportunity to get access to my paid stuff in EACH EMAIL!

Here's the cold hard fact. The MORE OFFERS YOU MAKE coupled with good content, the more money you'll make!

I make at least one offer a day and I make at least a few sales a day.

forget trial and error, just copy what I'm doing, you'll be glad you did!

my favorite "Idiocracy" quote:

"Welcome to Costco, I love you!" - door greeter at Costco

Your good ol' pal,

Derek
#cautious #hate #marketing
  • Profile picture of the author wfhblueprints
    I think there has to be a balance....

    If all you do is pepper them with offers all that is going to happen is that they will become oblivious to the offers and unsubscribe.

    I do feel that you need to be sending content, content and more content.

    There is nothing stopping you from putting an offer on a p.s. on those......and then every once and again send out an email dedicated to an offer....

    Its those Offer only emails that piss people off.

    Regards

    Chris

    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    If you are hovering over this because you want to see what it's all about, I invite you to click the link and come inside, it's warm in here and you'll love what you learn...

    __________________________________________________ ____________

    Have you ever heard the advice: "Blast your list with content and send them an offer every once in a while?"

    THAT IS SO DUMB.

    Here's the deal. I BLAST my list with content in EACH email AND at the end I give them an opportunity to get access to my paid stuff in EACH EMAIL!

    Here's the cold hard fact. The MORE OFFERS YOU MAKE coupled with good content, the more money you'll make!

    I make at least one offer a day and I make at least a few sales a day.

    forget trial and error, just copy what I'm doing, you'll be glad you did!

    my favorite "Idiocracy" quote:

    "Welcome to Costco, I love you!" - door greeter at Costco

    Your good ol' pal,

    Derek
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[5449186].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Manie Amari
    I see your point. Thanks for posting as I have never heard anyone say it from their own prospective. I've always heard it's best to offer content and after a few more free deliveries then do a promotion. I guess it all depends on your list and how your relationship is with them.

    Also another tactic, which is closely linked to what you are suggesting here is to train your subscribers to click links. So the emails in which you offer JUST FREE content, put a link to something free. Get your subscribers used to clicking links. So when you do happen to promote. It won't be outside the norm and it could possibly help conversions as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by wfhblueprints View Post

      I think there has to be a balance....

      If all you do is pepper them with offers all that is going to happen is that they will become oblivious to the offers and unsubscribe.

      I do feel that you need to be sending content, content and more content.

      There is nothing stopping you from putting an offer on a p.s. on those......and then every once and again send out an email dedicated to an offer....

      Its those Offer only emails that piss people off.

      Regards

      Chris
      I actually never offer a promotion only email, that's just lazy, I agree with you that YES it pisses people off!

      Originally Posted by Manie Amari View Post

      I see your point. Thanks for posting as I have never heard anyone say it from their own prospective. I've always heard it's best to offer content and after a few more free deliveries then do a promotion. I guess it all depends on your list and how your relationship is with them.

      Also another tactic, which is closely linked to what you are suggesting here is to train your subscribers to click links. So the emails in which you offer JUST FREE content, put a link to something free. Get your subscribers used to clicking links. So when you do happen to promote. It won't be outside the norm and it could possibly help conversions as well.
      Yes, that's a good strategy, another one is to barely offer links so when they do get a link it's like finding a treasure for them. What's beautiful is all the possibilities that we have.

      But I do know this, make offers and make them OFTEN! But do so in a cool and value providing way. The EASIEST way to make a sale is to GIVE HIGH QUALITY CONTENT with an offer.
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        I actually never offer a promotion only email, that's just lazy, I agree with you that YES it pisses people off!



        Yes, that's a good strategy, another one is to barely offer links so when they do get a link it's like finding a treasure for them. What's beautiful is all the possibilities that we have.

        But I do know this, make offers and make them OFTEN! But do so in a cool and value providing way. The EASIEST way to make a sale is to GIVE HIGH QUALITY CONTENT with an offer.
        Can you say "irony"?

        ~M~
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          Can you say "irony"?

          ~M~
          Michael, while I appreciate your two cents, why don't you try to take a few moments to add value with your criticism, thanks bud.
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

            Michael, while I appreciate your two cents, why don't you try to take a few moments to add value with your criticism, thanks bud.
            Hi Derek,

            It was meant as more of a way of pointing out something you may have missed. If I wanted to be critical, I would have used the word 'hypocrisy' instead of 'irony'.

            Sometimes humor, in the form of irony, does add value. The funny thing is that your reply to my post serves to further prove my point.

            You say you want an open discussion, but at the same time, you say it's "lazy" to send an e-mail that is only promotional. In other words, you are shutting down that point of view.

            Then, when somebody calls you on it, you turn around and try to dictate the responses that YOU consider valid. That may be fine in other venues, but this is an open forum where people may say things that you didn't expect. THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE WF SO FANTASTIC!

            Okay...

            Rant over.

            Here's my take on your entire premise, and more specifically on sending a purely promotional message:

            It is NOT about the "blend" of content to promotion. It doesn't matter if we are talking about a single message using some "magic blend" or an entire series of messages.

            It IS about adding value. If that value comes in the form of a purely promotional message, then so be it. Furthermore, if it's something that could truly help people, then why water down or confuse the message? There are times when it's better to get right to the point.

            One other thing, not everybody can effectively mix content and promotion within the same message. If it isn't done right, then it comes across as phony. As if the content was ONLY there to get the reader to the promotion.

            So...that's my take on it. But as a friendly suggestion, don't make commands from on high about what's right and wrong within an e-mail, or as a response in a forum that thrives on many points of view.

            All the best,
            Michael
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            • Profile picture of the author fin
              I get blasted with an offer each day from a few WF marketers.

              Luckily it goes straight to junk inbox.

              Why do I not unsubscribe from their lists, I hear you say....

              Well because I just like to look at them and laugh.
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              • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                Originally Posted by fin View Post

                I get blasted with an offer each day from a few WF marketers.

                Luckily it goes straight to junk inbox.

                Why do I not unsubscribe from their lists, I hear you say....

                Well because I just like to look at them and laugh.
                LOL, it can be funny how lazy or absurd some of these people can be, I totally agree!

                I do feel however, and this is my opionion, that if they actually emailed you VALUE with their sales message, you'd open these emails. I know that I do. Like when John Reese sends something, I usually open it because he combines value and the offer most of the time, so do a few others.
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                • Profile picture of the author fin
                  Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                  LOL, it can be funny how lazy or absurd some of these people can be, I totally agree!

                  I do feel however, and this is my opionion, that if they actually emailed you VALUE with their sales message, you'd open these emails. I know that I do. Like when John Reese sends something, I usually open it because he combines value and the offer most of the time, so do a few others.
                  OK, I'll give you that.

                  If they sent me decent info I could look past the promotion.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                    Originally Posted by fin View Post

                    OK, I'll give you that.

                    If they sent me decent info I could look past the promotion.
                    Yup. And plus, I've noticed that sending more offers equals more sales, and it still works for me constantly to this day!
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              • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
                Banned
                Originally Posted by fin View Post

                I get blasted with an offer each day from a few WF marketers.

                Luckily it goes straight to junk inbox.

                Why do I not unsubscribe from their lists, I hear you say....

                Well because I just like to look at them and laugh.
                I do the same.

                Marketing, marketing to other marketers is silly. It's like trying to sell a football to a man who sells footballs for a living.

                Don't even know how WSO's do so well. Suppose I shouldn't complain seeing as I was thinking about launching one soon.
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                • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                  Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

                  By the way Derek, I still stand by my defense of Becky but I apologise for the 'attention-seeking thread' comment

                  Di
                  Thank you Di.

                  Originally Posted by ryanmilligan View Post

                  I do the same.

                  Marketing, marketing to other marketers is silly. It's like trying to sell a football to a man who sells footballs for a living.

                  Don't even know how WSO's do so well. Suppose I shouldn't complain seeing as I was thinking about launching one soon.
                  lol I love your analogy! I love selling in other niches than IM because although the warrior forum is awesome, the "WSO" section has conditioned people to be cheap where they'll really sit there and do all this research considering a $15 wso! Which hey, it's fine to do your due diligence, but it's become the "walmart" so to speak of internet marketing.

                  However, there ARE REAL GEMS in there, they are hard to find, but they are there and we all can appreciate the lower price point. However, I've talked to some specialists who work behind the scenes of these wso's and they don't do it for the front end profits most of the time! They don't even bump threads that much, what they do is focus more on getting others to promote your wso for 100% commission, which builds you a list of buyers that you can then market to later.

                  However, in some of the niches I work in, they are not callous about being bombarded with offers every day because they haven't joined nearly as many lists as IM'ers do and they don't think too much about dropping $97 in my PayPal and I find it so much simpler...
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                • Profile picture of the author dave147
                  Originally Posted by ryanmilligan View Post

                  I do the same.

                  Marketing, marketing to other marketers is silly. It's like trying to sell a football to a man who sells footballs for a living.

                  Don't even know how WSO's do so well. Suppose I shouldn't complain seeing as I was thinking about launching one soon.
                  Marketing to marketers is not at all silly. Marketers need products and services too.
                  The man who sells footballs needs a supply of footballs and ways to sell his footballs
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                  • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                    Originally Posted by dave147 View Post

                    Marketing to marketers is not at all silly. Marketers need products and services too.
                    The man who sells footballs needs a supply of footballs and ways to sell his footballs
                    This is true, and there is ALWAYS a better way to sell footballs! What's great is that with internet marketers, once you sell them, you can teach them to turn around and sell your stuff as an affiliate which you really can't do usually with other products. It's funny how no matter how thin we slice it, there's always two sides...
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            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
              Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

              Hi Derek,

              It was meant as more of a way of pointing out something you may have missed. If I wanted to be critical, I would have used the word 'hypocrisy' instead of 'irony'.

              Sometimes humor, in the form of irony, does add value. The funny thing is that your reply to my post serves to further prove my point.

              You say you want an open discussion, but at the same time, you say it's "lazy" to send an e-mail that is only promotional. In other words, you are shutting down that point of view.

              Then, when somebody calls you on it, you turn around and try to dictate the responses that YOU consider valid. That may be fine in other venues, but this is an open forum where people may say things that you didn't expect. THAT'S WHAT MAKES THE WF SO FANTASTIC!

              Okay...

              Rant over.

              Here's my take on your entire premise, and more specifically on sending a purely promotional message:

              It is NOT about the "blend" of content to promotion. It doesn't matter if we are talking about a single message using some "magic blend" or an entire series of messages.

              It IS about adding value. If that value comes in the form of a purely promotional message, then so be it. Furthermore, if it's something that could truly help people, then why water down or confuse the message? There are times when it's better to get right to the point.

              One other thing, not everybody can effectively mix content and promotion within the same message. If it isn't done right, then it comes across as phony. As if the content was ONLY there to get the reader to the promotion.

              So...that's my take on it. But as a friendly suggestion, don't make commands from on high about what's right and wrong within an e-mail, or as a response in a forum that thrives on many points of view.

              All the best,
              Michael
              Michael, now that's value my friend! Thank you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Manie Amari View Post

      I see your point. Thanks for posting as I have never heard anyone say it from their own prospective. I've always heard it's best to offer content and after a few more free deliveries then do a promotion. I guess it all depends on your list and how your relationship is with them.

      Also another tactic, which is closely linked to what you are suggesting here is to train your subscribers to click links. So the emails in which you offer JUST FREE content, put a link to something free. Get your subscribers used to clicking links. So when you do happen to promote. It won't be outside the norm and it could possibly help conversions as well.
      What are some other ideas you have about email marketing that have worked for you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
    If anyone has anything VALUABLE to add to this thread, that would be great, I should have specified that earlier.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
      Derek,
      If anyone has anything VALUABLE to add to this thread, that would be great, I should have specified that earlier.
      When you buy the place from Allen, you can tell people what they can and cannot post in threads. Until then, you may want to reconsider the wisdom of insisting on a decision you are powerless to enforce.


      Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    I have a list that I market to once every 3 or 4 months, and it makes more than many people make in a year.

    Every one of your lists are different. Test, track, and tweak them for about a year, without making theoretical assumptions. Then come back and see which one really made the most profit.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      I have a list that I market to once every 3 or 4 months, and it makes more than many people make in a year.

      Every one of your lists are different. Test, track, and tweak them for about a year, without making theoretical assumptions. Then come back and see which one really made the most profit.
      OK, Mike I'll tell you man, you may not believe this, but if you marketed to your list more than every 3-4 months you would make more money.

      Don't believe me?

      Send me the list and I'll show ya...

      I've worked with several businesses who think just like you do now and they ALWAYS make more money once they start doing what I show them...
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        OK, Mike I'll tell you man, you may not believe this, but if you marketed to your list more than every 3-4 months you would make more money.
        Umm... You don't know anything about that particular list? How I built it, who is on it, what I market to them? :confused:


        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        Don't believe me?

        Send me the list and I'll show ya...
        ROTFLMAO!!! Yeah, just hold your breath while I send you one of my most profitable lists so that you can teach me how to kill the golden goose. :rolleyes:

        Somehow, I don't think you could even afford to market to it anyway, seeing has how it is a salutation card list of over 3200 families, and not an email list.


        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        I've worked with several businesses who think just like you do now and they ALWAYS make more money once they start doing what I show them...

        Thanks buddy but I've been in the game for a few minutes. The fact is that I do actually have a few lists where I fit purchase links into almost every email. I also have two "junk" lists that just spam with cheap offers twice a day.



        My point was that every list is different. You cannot use a blanket strategy for every one and think that it is going to be the most effective way every single time.

        The niche, how you built the list, how you build trust and specifically credibility with them... Now to mention what the responsive members actually want and need, and when their paydays are. (Do you even know what days the people on your lists get paid, so that you can take that into account when making offers, rather than just sending them things every day?)


        No, in my experience, trying to grab every opportunity to market because you are scared of missing out on money, that is "cautious" and defensive. Building massive trust and credibility, then sending out offers that cost far more than anything my competitors have the guts to charge-- this is "aggressive" marketing.
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    • Profile picture of the author billyme
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      I have a list that I market to once every 3 or 4 months, and it makes more than many people make in a year.

      Every one of your lists are different. Test, track, and tweak them for about a year, without making theoretical assumptions. Then come back and see which one really made the most profit.
      I agree about testing when you can. However, if you can consistently send out valuable information and high-level products, it'd be better to get consistent money. Plus, you'll build trust so people are repeat buyers. Sure, a big payday is nice but not everyone will buy from an email from someone they don't remember from months ago. Besides, a better CTR on one email isn't nearly as profitable as a worse CTR on several emails. Sorry if you dislike my opinion - I just can't imagine subscribers trusting someone they only get an email from 3-4 times a year. The only benefit I could see is there's less work on your part.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by billyme View Post

        I agree about testing when you can. However, if you can consistently send out valuable information and high-level products, it'd be better to get consistent money. Plus, you'll build trust so people are repeat buyers. Sure, a big payday is nice but not everyone will buy from an email from someone they don't remember from months ago. Besides, a better CTR on one email isn't nearly as profitable as a worse CTR on several emails. Sorry if you dislike my opinion - I just can't imagine subscribers trusting someone they only get an email from 3-4 times a year. The only benefit I could see is there's less work on your part.

        Allow me to clarify, as I did kind of draw out these responses on purpose to sharpen my point:

        That particular list is a salutation card list... You know, Birthday Cards, Thinking of You Cards, etc... So they don't expect to get them every day, and in fact getting them once a month has a massive impact. (Oh, and the "open" rate is very high, because everyone on the list knows I like to put gift cards in them.)

        As for my email lists, I do email most of them every day. But I have found that my more profitable lists have closer to a 30:1 ratio in favor of content versus sales offers. Because they get daily lessons that are of very high value and are easy to read and use every day, by the time I actually offer them something they can buy, if we aren't "friends" then I at least have massive credibility.

        Even on these lists, I get people that buy throughout the month... Often I get responses that say something along the lines of, "Well Mike it sounds great, but as you know I got to pay the mortgage with this check, but I promise I'm going to buy if you hold a copy for me until my next payday."



        Listen, I'm not trying to say to use my method or to prove it to you. My point is the same that I made in my first post in this thread:

        Test, Track, and Tweak your method for about a year or so and see what is really giving you the best results. Don't try to use a one-size-fits-all strategy. Every person is different, and every list is different.


        If you're worrying about missing out on sales opportunities, or if the money you are making is not consistent, you've got bigger problems than how often you put "buy now" buttons in front of people.
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  • Profile picture of the author hustlinsmoke
    That right there is why I love an unsubscribe link. I would like to see your CTR to start with but never the list if I did buy something from you, I would not be a consistent customer of yours. Probably not a customer for very long at all.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by hustlinsmoke View Post

      That right there is why I love an unsubscribe link. I would like to see your CTR to start with but never the list if I did buy something from you, I would not be a consistent customer of yours. Probably not a customer for very long at all.
      While I respect your opinion, I make most of my money from repeat customers. You probably have been bombarded with promotional emails from people who have no clue how to do what I'm talking about and for that I'm sorry man...
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  • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
    Good heavens people who are not careful with email have never been accused of spam. These people will wipe you off the face of the internet. They don't care and they get a plain old laughing kick out of it. You should be careful. is this enuf value?
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
    I'm not sure what you're saying Claire, but if you are responding to when I said I have a few lists that I "spam" twice a day with junk offers... Rest assured I was using the word as slang and they are actually opt-ins. Unfortunately the lists were built with SEO and Solo Ads, and are therefore very low quality anyway.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    "Welcome to Costco, I love you!" - door greeter at Costco
    Makes me want to sign up for a Costco membership.

    I always give my subscribers good information in my email newsletter, and provide them with a link at the end to pitch them on something. I dont make the emails too long... just long enough to get them interested in more, to keep their attention for a moment, and to direct them to my sales link.
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  • Profile picture of the author AppsFromHome
    I get a ton of offers everyday too from WF members.

    At first, it did get annoying day in and day out...but guess what?

    I have a whole archive of swipe files I can research and get ideas from....

    And, when I do invest in a WSO....a lot of these marketers will add bonuses
    on their lists which sometimes are quite valuable and add to the offer.

    I like blending content with offers....not everyday, but 2-3 times a week.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Umm... You don't know anything about that particular list? How I built it, who is on it, what I market to them? :confused:

      There are always ways to make more money, always my friend.


      ROTFLMAO!!! Yeah, just hold your breath while I send you one of my most profitable lists so that you can teach me how to kill the golden goose. :rolleyes:

      lol, U actually thought I was asking you for your list? seriously bro?

      Somehow, I don't think you could even afford to market to it anyway, seeing has how it is a salutation card list of over 3200 families, and not an email list.


      ...and you didn't say it wasn't an E-MAIL LIST, which is what I was talking about... but even then you could be making more money...


      Thanks buddy but I've been in the game for a few minutes. The fact is that I do actually have a few lists where I fit purchase links into almost every email. I also have two "junk" lists that just spam with cheap offers twice a day.

      I really despise spam, but I guess that's just me.

      My point was that every list is different. You cannot use a blanket strategy for every one and think that it is going to be the most effective way every single time.

      I didn't say that there is a blanket strategy for everything, however across multiple niches I've seen one thing work: MORE OFFERS = MORE SALES.

      The niche, how you built the list, how you build trust and specifically credibility with them... Now to mention what the responsive members actually want and need, and when their paydays are. (Do you even know what days the people on your lists get paid, so that you can take that into account when making offers, rather than just sending them things every day?)

      It is naive to think you can know when everyone gets paid, plus people get influxes of cash all the time. What I've noticed is that the more times you give them an opportunity to get more great information besides what you give them for free, the more sales you get, it's pretty simple really.


      No, in my experience, trying to grab every opportunity to market because you are scared of missing out on money, that is "cautious" and defensive. Building massive trust and credibility, then sending out offers that cost far more than anything my competitors have the guts to charge-- this is "aggressive" marketing.
      It's not about being scared of missing business, it's about having the offer readily available to people so that if in this particular email they are really wowed or inspired or the email touched on one of their buying triggers, the offer is there ready for them to grab it. It's all in how you do it, which I'll make a thread on soon.

      Originally Posted by billyme View Post

      I agree about testing when you can. However, if you can consistently send out valuable information and high-level products, it'd be better to get consistent money. Plus, you'll build trust so people are repeat buyers. Sure, a big payday is nice but not everyone will buy from an email from someone they don't remember from months ago. Besides, a better CTR on one email isn't nearly as profitable as a worse CTR on several emails. Sorry if you dislike my opinion - I just can't imagine subscribers trusting someone they only get an email from 3-4 times a year. The only benefit I could see is there's less work on your part.
      I agree completely.

      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      Allow me to clarify, as I did kind of draw out these responses on purpose to sharpen my point:

      That particular list is a salutation card list... You know, Birthday Cards, Thinking of You Cards, etc... So they don't expect to get them every day, and in fact getting them once a month has a massive impact. (Oh, and the "open" rate is very high, because everyone on the list knows I like to put gift cards in them.)

      As for my email lists, I do email most of them every day. But I have found that my more profitable lists have closer to a 30:1 ratio in favor of content versus sales offers. Because they get daily lessons that are of very high value and are easy to read and use every day, by the time I actually offer them something they can buy, if we aren't "friends" then I at least have massive credibility.

      You can also add a simple opportunity for the premium stuff in a P.P.S. it' very non salesy and I've never seen someone get pissed off by it. I have people thank me for my emails and I have an opportunity to buy in each email.

      Even on these lists, I get people that buy throughout the month... Often I get responses that say something along the lines of, "Well Mike it sounds great, but as you know I got to pay the mortgage with this check, but I promise I'm going to buy if you hold a copy for me until my next payday."



      Listen, I'm not trying to say to use my method or to prove it to you. My point is the same that I made in my first post in this thread:

      Test, Track, and Tweak your method for about a year or so and see what is really giving you the best results. Don't try to use a one-size-fits-all strategy. Every person is different, and every list is different.

      I agree with this part of your post completely, that is how I came to make the initial point in this thread and why I started this thread, because it was proven first.


      If you're worrying about missing out on sales opportunities, or if the money you are making is not consistent, you've got bigger problems than how often you put "buy now" buttons in front of people.
      You NEVER put "buy now" buttons in front of people on email, you give them an opportunity to get even more if they so desire in a very non salesy way, it's quite easy actually.

      Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

      Good heavens people who are not careful with email have never been accused of spam. These people will wipe you off the face of the internet. They don't care and they get a plain old laughing kick out of it. You should be careful. is this enuf value?
      I agree Claire that spam is awful. I created this thread to show people that Yes, you can make an offer in each email and it will generate more sales for you, but I'll make a new thread explaining "how" to do it...

      Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

      I'm not sure what you're saying Claire, but if you are responding to when I said I have a few lists that I "spam" twice a day with junk offers... Rest assured I was using the word as slang and they are actually opt-ins. Unfortunately the lists were built with SEO and Solo Ads, and are therefore very low quality anyway.
      Mike, you can still provide value to them and this would increase your sales and open rates my friend.

      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      Makes me want to sign up for a Costco membership.

      lol!

      I always give my subscribers good information in my email newsletter, and provide them with a link at the end to pitch them on something. I dont make the emails too long... just long enough to get them interested in more, to keep their attention for a moment, and to direct them to my sales link.
      works great when done correctly!

      Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

      Derek,When you buy the place from Allen, you can tell people what they can and cannot post in threads. Until then, you may want to reconsider the wisdom of insisting on a decision you are powerless to enforce.


      Paul
      Paul, I respect you because you have been here FOREVER so thank you for your comment. God bless!

      Originally Posted by SDotSpells View Post

      I get a ton of offers everyday too from WF members.

      At first, it did get annoying day in and day out...but guess what?

      I have a whole archive of swipe files I can research and get ideas from....

      And, when I do invest in a WSO....a lot of these marketers will add bonuses
      on their lists which sometimes are quite valuable and add to the offer.

      I like blending content with offers....not everyday, but 2-3 times a week.
      This is a very good idea! You have found a way to turn a perceived "negative" into a "positive" Good stuff!

      What I've noticed across the board here is that the "new guys" have a much better attitude than the "old guys" So "new guys" Keep up your good attitudes as life is too short to get all crabby and negative and only comment with negativity on other people's threads. You can comment how you want, but maybe you should "consider" if it's just to vent your frustrations or if it provides value which is what I think Allen would want.

      I'm sure he doesn't want this place to be a negative place, but a place where people can feel safe to say what's on their mind or share an idea without getting stomped on by negativity. What are your thoughts?
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        There are always ways to make more money, always my friend.
        Once there was a farmer who discovered his goose laid golden eggs. Greedily, he pushed the goose harder and harder, forcing it to lay more and more eggs. Overexerted, the goose fell over and died. The farmer had no more golden eggs.


        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        lol, U actually thought I was asking you for your list? seriously bro?

        Yes. These threads seem to be aimed and trying to get customers for yourself.



        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        ...and you didn't say it wasn't an E-MAIL LIST, which is what I was talking about... but even then you could be making more money...

        No, I didn't say it was an email list originally, because I knew you would respond, and wanted to illustrate that you are jumping to conclusions. And once again, yes, I know I could drain the list for more money. But, once again, I have learned from the story of the golden goose.



        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        I really despise spam, but I guess that's just me.
        Most everyone does. But it is a good way to cast the net wide without investing much time or money. And again, it is not really "spam" so much as cheap opt-ins.


        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        I didn't say that there is a blanket strategy for everything, however across multiple niches I've seen one thing work: MORE OFFERS = MORE SALES.
        Actually, if that was the purpose of your post, then wouldn't you have named it something like, "More Offers = More Sales" and spoke in your first post about how it is a great way to structure your email campaign across multiple niches?

        What you did was make a controversial title, put down other methods, and promote your own. In fact, you even went so far as to get upset when people didn't agree with you?



        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        It is naive to think you can know when everyone gets paid, plus people get influxes of cash all the time. What I've noticed is that the more times you give them an opportunity to get more great information besides what you give them for free, the more sales you get, it's pretty simple really.
        OK. Call me naive. Silly me, I called it "advanced" marketing, but I guess it doesn't really help me very much to know when people get paid, and when they get their "free" check twice per year, and to adjust my offers accordingly.

        Thanks for your Marketing 101 insight about giving them opportunities to get more great information in addition to what I give them for free. I'll change my entire business to this model now. :p




        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        It's not about being scared of missing business, it's about having the offer readily available to people so that if in this particular email they are really wowed or inspired or the email touched on one of their buying triggers, the offer is there ready for them to grab it. It's all in how you do it, which I'll make a thread on soon.

        OK, Marketing 101, sure. But consider this: If I provide days, weeks, or even months of things to them that "wow" or "inspire" or touch on their "buying signals" and then I don't bother trying to sell them anything for them to "grab" well, that is just another way to do it, and it is very, very effective.

        I'm not saying your way is wrong, just defending the fact that there are other effective methods.




        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        You NEVER put "buy now" buttons in front of people on email, you give them an opportunity to get even more if they so desire in a very non salesy way, it's quite easy actually.

        Please note that what I very clearly said was about putting "buy now" buttons in front of people-- And I didn't say anything about putting them in email.



        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        Mike, you can still provide value to them and this would increase your sales and open rates my friend.

        The lists that I built with SEO and Solo Ads are very low quality. People searching for information in Google almost always want free information, and are not interested in buying things, compared to leads that I have generated through other methods. People from Solo Ads are on tons of other lists. So I never put in the effort into these, and they run on autopilot. On the rare occasions people buy something, once or twice a month, then I move them to a buyers list and actually pay attention to them.



        Originally Posted by Derek So93to View Post

        What I've noticed across the board here is that the "new guys" have a much better attitude than the "old guys" So "new guys" Keep up your good attitudes as life is too short to get all crabby and negative and only comment with negativity on other people's threads. You can comment how you want, but maybe you should "consider" if it's just to vent your frustrations or if it provides value which is what I think Allen would want.

        I'm sure he doesn't want this place to be a negative place, but a place where people can feel safe to say what's on their mind or share an idea without getting stomped on by negativity. What are your thoughts?

        This is a curious statement. After all, the title of your post is " why I HATE "cautious" marketing" ...And in fact, a couple of us have gone out of our way to express what we believe to be positive and constructive comments in a thread that was started with a negative title and a negative idea, saying that the way many people run their email campaigns is wrong, and they should use your method?
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Derek,"Age is not a virtue, nor youth a sin."

          Translation: Time on the forum is irrelevant to this issue. And I don't believe a word of that comment anyway. Not that it matters either way.Translation: "The new guys come closer to meeting my personal expectations than the old guys, and the new guys don't challenge me."And you know Allen ... how well?

          There was no frustration behind my comment, Mr Soto. Just some common sense advice, in the role of moderator. But, to clarify that...

          Do not tell people what they can or cannot say in response to your comments. Not unless you want the thread to disappear entirely.

          Was that sufficiently precise, sir?


          Paul
          So you are going to delete me because I asked people not to be degrading and mean? I don't know Allen at all but it just doesn't seem like he'd like his forum filled with anger and hate. I'm just trying to teach and learn here. So you have my word that I WILL NOT TELL PEOPLE HOW TO RESPOND TO ME. However I should hope that I have the same freedoms as everyone else does...

          Also I was frustrated when I made that comment to you about being here forever because I see you've got too much power aka ( you can delete my thread simply because you don't like me ) however all I did was capitalize the word forever and I don't believe I said anything that warrants being deleted.

          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          OK, Marketing 101, sure. But consider this: If I provide days, weeks, or even months of things to them that "wow" or "inspire" or touch on their "buying signals" and then I don't bother trying to sell them anything for them to "grab" well, that is just another way to do it, and it is very, very effective.

          I'm not saying your way is wrong, just defending the fact that there are other effective methods.







          Please note that what I very clearly said was about putting "buy now" buttons in front of people-- And I didn't say anything about putting them in email.






          The lists that I built with SEO and Solo Ads are very low quality. People searching for information in Google want something Free, and are not good buyers. People from Solo Ads are on tons of other lists. So I never put in the effort into these, and they run on autopilot. On the rare occasions people buy something, once or twice a month, then I move them to a buyers list and actually pay attention to them.






          This is a curious statement. After all, the title of your post is " why I HATE "cautious" marketing" ...And in fact, a couple of us have gone out of our way to express what we believe to be positive and constructive comments in a thread that was started with a negative title and a negative idea, saying that the way many people run their email campaigns is wrong, and they should use your method?
          I agree with what you that there are a lot of good methods, I was simply sharing what has been proven through my efforts.
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          • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

            So you are going to delete me because I asked people not to be degrading and mean? I don't know Allen at all but it just doesn't seem like he'd like his forum filled with anger and hate. I'm just trying to teach and learn here. So you have my word that I WILL NOT TELL PEOPLE HOW TO RESPOND TO ME. However I should hope that I have the same freedoms as everyone else does...

            Also I was frustrated when I made that comment to you about being here forever because I see you've got too much power aka ( you can delete my thread simply because you don't like me ) however all I did was capitalize the word forever and I don't believe I said anything that warrants being deleted.



            I agree with what you that there are a lot of good methods, I was simply sharing what has been proven through my efforts.

            You didn't ask people not to be mean. You said that their posts weren't constructive. Perhaps in the future you will look back at your title and the original post and realize why you got some of the early reactions that you did.

            Again, I don't think anyone is "hating" anything here, except for you... And I only think that because you keep using the actual word, which you started this thread with.

            Yes, you do have the same freedoms that everyone else here has. And the same responsibilities in regard to behavior.



            Paul isn't a moderator because he has been here a long time. (Actually, my theory is that he lost a major bet of some kind.) And I know for a fact that he does not delete posts "just because he doesn't like" someone. Quite the contrary, I know that some people annoy him and have very different views, and yet he doesn't delete their posts because they follow the rules.

            In time I like to believe that you will find him to be more than fair, and far more patient than he has to be. If a post was deleted and you are not sure why it warrants deleted, please refer to the rules, and you will find your answers there.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            So you are going to delete me because I asked people not to be degrading and mean?
            I said I would delete the thread, not you. I very much dislike banning people, but I'll yank a nuisance thread without a moment's thought.

            And "degrading and mean" isn't what you asked people to avoid.
            Also I was frustrated when I made that comment to you about being here forever because I see you've got too much power aka ( you can delete my thread simply because you don't like me )
            Don't like you? I don't even know you. I haven't seen enough conversation from you to have formed an opinion. I am beginning to think there might be some paranoia in there, though.

            The whole "too much power" thing is funny. All that really means is "Can tell you no, in this very limited context, and make it stick." That's hardly "power."

            It is a required capacity for moderating a forum like this. Nothing more.

            Before you go any further with the feeling of being targeted, I will tell you this: Anyone who is not an "official" moderator here who tells other members "Don't say X, Y, or Z in my threads" gets told the same thing you got told. It is a standard response.

            Once you open up a topic for conversation, any response that is within the rules and standards of the group is fair game.


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            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
              Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

              You didn't ask people not to be mean. You said that their posts weren't constructive. Perhaps in the future you will look back at your title and the original post and realize why you got some of the early reactions that you did.

              Again, I don't think anyone is "hating" anything here, except for you... And I only think that because you keep using the actual word, which you started this thread with.

              Yes, you do have the same freedoms that everyone else here has. And the same responsibilities in regard to behavior.



              Paul isn't a moderator because he has been here a long time. (Actually, my theory is that he lost a major bet of some kind.) And I know for a fact that he does not delete posts "just because he doesn't like" someone. Quite the contrary, I know that some people annoy him and have very different views, and yet he doesn't delete their posts because they follow the rules.

              In time I like to believe that you will find him to be more than fair, and far more patient than he has to be. If a post was deleted and you are not sure why it warrants deleted, please refer to the rules, and you will find your answers there.
              Thank you Mike.

              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              I said I would delete the thread, not you. I very much dislike banning people, but I'll yank a nuisance thread without a moment's thought.

              And "degrading and mean" isn't what you asked people to avoid.Don't like you? I don't even know you. I haven't seen enough conversation from you to have formed an opinion. I am beginning to think there might be some paranoia in there, though.

              The whole "too much power" thing is funny. All that really means is "Can tell you no, in this very limited context, and make it stick." That's hardly "power."

              It is a required capacity for moderating a forum like this. Nothing more.

              Before you go any further with the feeling of being targeted, I will tell you this: Anyone who is not an actual moderator here who tells other members "Don't say X, Y, or Z in my threads" gets told the same thing you got told. It is a standard response.

              Once you open up a topic for conversation, any response that is within the rules and standards of the group is fair game.


              Paul
              Paul, like I said, I won't tell people not to respond in a certain way. Also, if you look at some of my threads, like my latest one, I provide real value. The last thread I created took me about an hour because I feel like I have very useful information to share and God has blessed me to be successful and this is a good place to give back. However it can be frustrating trying to provide value and people come over and just look for ways to tear you down.

              honestly man, I don't know how you have the patience to do what you do either! Either way, I'm not trying to make waves, I just want to teach anyone who will listen because I know it can and will change their life like it has mine.

              Thanks for your replies, you could have easily just deleted this but you didn't, thanks for that.
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                However it can be frustrating trying to provide value and people come over and just look for ways to tear you down.
                Don't take this stuff personally. Just keep telling yourself, "It's only a forum. It's only a forum..."

                By the way, for future reference: If it looks too much like an article, it will almost always be deleted.


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            • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
              Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

              If anyone has anything VALUABLE to add to this thread, that would be great, I should have specified that earlier.
              LOL. I guess it's all been said, but this one cracked me up... on a public forum even!

              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Derek,When you buy the place from Allen, you can tell people what they can and cannot post in threads. Until then, you may want to reconsider the wisdom of insisting on a decision you are powerless to enforce.

              Paul
              Of course, that's a public forum with "moderators"

              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              I said I would delete the thread, not you. I very much dislike banning people, but I'll yank a nuisance thread without a moment's thought.

              Rolf (private joke, no malice intended whatsoever

              OK - fun aside, back to the OP -

              True enough to say that if I were to be on a list that tried to sell me something every time they mailed then I wouldn't be on that list for long.

              True enough. I'm only on about 3 different WF member's list (as an example) because the others sent more ads than they did content.

              I *like* the idea of "content [u]with[u] ads - as long as the content value outwaieghs the 'ads'...

              Mind you, on the other side of the coin, trying to deal with "absolutes" such as "i you do this then you WILL make more money is futile. Just because something has become your experience doesn't make it true for others - and that's why SO MANY FAIL in both business and *internet business*... they believe that if it 'worked for one it will work for another'. No, not true. It *may* work for the other, but only testing and tweaking will determine such.

              Nothing is truth for all until it works for all.

              Paul Barrs
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Paul,
                Rolf (private joke, no malice intended whatsoever
                Hey, I have never claimed I don't screw up.

                You can tell that story, if you like. It's not a mistake I make often (thankfully), but it's not the only time, either. And you handled it with far more grace than most would.


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                • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  Paul,Hey, I have never claimed I don't screw up.

                  You can tell that story, if you like. It's not a mistake I make often (thankfully), but it's not the only time, either. And you handled it with far more grace than most would.


                  Paul
                  Not the first, not the last, ha ha.

                  As for the "handled with grace", LOL, thank you. Believe me, It took a few minutes of quiet contemplation to "handle it with grace!!"

                  But as we like to say in Australia (and I don't think it's unique just to use either...) Some times sh** happens.

                  Paul

                  PS. To anyone left wondering.... let's just say that I *know* what it's like to have your account totally NUKED! ha ha.
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                  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                    Originally Posted by Paul Barrs View Post

                    I *know* what it's like to have your account totally NUKED! ha ha.
                    Me too, and its amazing when you realize how much you take your privilege for granted, and how you suddenly see how false your sense of ownership can be.... Just because Allen is cool enough to let us play here. Better just play by the rules and dont argue them.

                    As a forum owner myself now, I can tell you that running one of these things has alot more intricate nuances than appear on the surface to the average visitor or even experienced poster.

                    There are reasons things are the way they are, its too big a place, too many things to consider. You wouldnt want to be Paul M. Just trust him and keep your nose clean.

                    The rules are for the benefit of the majority, and the exceptions exist but you cant make rules that cater to exceptions, you have to make rules that cater to rules. Paul is a judge that weighs exceptions, but he understands more variables than most of us do, so they are weighed in his judgements.

                    Some things are eaiser to just not try to explain, just comply and say thanks.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
                      Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

                      Me too, and its amazing when you realize how much you take your privilege for granted, and how you suddenly see how false your sense of ownership can be.... Just because Allen is cool enough to let us play here. Better just play by the rules and don't argue them.

                      ...

                      Some things are eaiser to just not try to explain, just comply and say thanks.
                      Amen to that
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                  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                    Paul,
                    As for the "handled with grace", LOL, thank you. Believe me, It took a few minutes of quiet contemplation to "handle it with grace!!"
                    That you took the time to compose yourself just makes it that much more admirable. And appreciated.

                    What happened is fairly simple, if somewhat embarrassing. While moderating one day, I got moving too fast, fat-fingered the mouse, and nuked his account instead of the spammer I was intending to remove.

                    Instead of the entirely justifiable flamethrower one would expect after such a screw-up, Paul calmly went to the help desk and asked for clarification. We reset his post count and other stats to reflect his history here, and I apologized.

                    As he says, stuff happens. How you handle it is what counts, and Paul handled it with more class than I had any right to expect, mistake or no.

                    Every time some whiny twit with an entitlement attitude comes around, screaming about his thinly-veiled ad being deleted from the discussion sections, I remember Paul's response. Which makes it that much harder not to just delete the self-centered twit on the spot.


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              • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                Don't take this stuff personally. Just keep telling yourself, "It's only a forum. It's only a forum..."

                By the way, for future reference: If it looks too much like an article, it will almost always be deleted.


                Paul
                ok

                Originally Posted by Paul Barrs View Post

                LOL. I guess it's all been said, but this one cracked me up... on a public forum even!



                Of course, that's a public forum with "moderators"




                Rolf (private joke, no malice intended whatsoever

                OK - fun aside, back to the OP -

                True enough to say that if I were to be on a list that tried to sell me something every time they mailed then I wouldn't be on that list for long.

                True enough. I'm only on about 3 different WF member's list (as an example) because the others sent more ads than they did content.

                I *like* the idea of "content [u]with[u] ads - as long as the content value outwaieghs the 'ads'...

                Mind you, on the other side of the coin, trying to deal with "absolutes" such as "i you do this then you WILL make more money is futile. Just because something has become your experience doesn't make it true for others - and that's why SO MANY FAIL in both business and *internet business*... they believe that if it 'worked for one it will work for another'. No, not true. It *may* work for the other, but only testing and tweaking will determine such.

                Nothing is truth for all until it works for all.

                Paul Barrs
                Very helpful, thank you.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Durham
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              I said I would delete the thread, not you. I very much dislike banning people, but I'll yank a nuisance thread without a moment's thought.
              l

              he, he , he, lol.... he said "Yank".




              Ps. Paul dont mess up. Im not a kiss up, but its true, he's very wise about these things, and yes Im a fan but just because Im paranoid doesnt mean people arent chasing me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Derek,
    Paul, I respect you because you have been here FOREVER so thank you for your comment. God bless!
    "Age is not a virtue, nor youth a sin."

    Translation: Time on the forum is irrelevant to this issue. And I don't believe a word of that comment anyway. Not that it matters either way.
    What I've noticed across the board here is that the "new guys" have a much better attitude than the "old guys"
    Translation: "The new guys come closer to meeting my personal expectations than the old guys, and the new guys don't challenge me."
    You can comment how you want, but maybe you should "consider" if it's just to vent your frustrations or if it provides value which is what I think Allen would want.
    And you know Allen ... how well?

    There was no frustration behind my comment, Mr Soto. Just some common sense advice, in the role of moderator. But, to clarify that...

    Do not tell people what they can or cannot say in response to your comments. Not unless you want the thread to disappear entirely.

    Was that sufficiently precise, sir?


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  • Profile picture of the author nataliesuarez
    I believe this doesn't even have anything to do with a "marketing" sense. It's the difference between "having a brain" and "not using a brain". Even economics is plain common sense and maths.

    The first mail might work. The second might too. But if the mail keeps coming, and all of them are just low-quality affiliate offers... it's quite obvious anyone would be pretty revolted.

    It's like someone stalking your mailbox feverishly!
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by nataliesuarez View Post

      I believe this doesn't even have anything to do with a "marketing" sense. It's the difference between "having a brain" and "not using a brain". Even economics is plain common sense and maths.

      The first mail might work. The second might too. But if the mail keeps coming, and all of them are just low-quality affiliate offers... it's quite obvious anyone would be pretty revolted.

      It's like someone stalking your mailbox feverishly!
      I'm not sure what you are talking about...
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        I'm not sure what you are talking about...
        I do...

        It's about using common sense.

        Some of us don't see making even more money as our highest priority. It may shock you that some of us oldies actually enjoy what we do and have found the right balance between work and play.

        Maybe it's my ego, but I get a buzz out of helping my customers improve their lives. I call it concious capitalism.

        And if that means that I leave money on the table, then so be it... after all, there is plenty for everyone.

        Some of us also know our lists well. Can we make more from them? Yeah I guess so... but as he said... why kill the Goose through excess. If you can do what you do with your list and get away with it, then all power to you.

        But please, don't come on here and extol what you do as the holy grail... which is how it comes across.

        Sal

        PS: Keep it up with Paul. Popcorn anyone?
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  • Profile picture of the author John Durham
    Sadly, mine wasnt a mistake, I was just bein a whiny twit. lol

    I can tell you though Warriors SHOOOOOOOORE dont have much tolerance for whining, its a reason to get banned in and of itself round these parts.
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  • Profile picture of the author Richy Burns
    Thanks for the tips, I also read your other thread about the steps you take when send out emails. This is where I fall short as I need to improve my email marketing. Keep those sales coming in!

    thanks

    Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author Tony Marriott
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post


    ..........................Here's the deal. I BLAST my list with content in EACH email AND at the end I give them an opportunity to get access to my paid stuff in EACH EMAIL!

    Here's the cold hard fact. The MORE OFFERS YOU MAKE coupled with good content, the more money you'll make! ..................
    Your good ol' pal,

    Derek
    I think the key point here is that good quality content combined with good offers is a successful email marketing strategy.


    Taken to the extremes, too much content probably means less revenue and too many offers probably means more unsubscribes.


    Like most things there is a middle ground that will be generally effective for everybody. Whether that separates the content from the offers or combines them in a single email is the choice of the individual list owner.


    Of course all these things should be tested and of course not all list are the same.


    For instance it would seem reasonable that a list built from give-aways would be happier with more free content whereas a list built from buyers is more likely to accept a higher level of sales pitches.
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  • Profile picture of the author thebitbotdotcom
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    If you are hovering over this because you want to see what it's all about, I invite you to click the link and come inside, it's warm in here and you'll love what you learn...

    __________________________________________________ ____________

    Have you ever heard the advice: "Blast your list with content and send them an offer every once in a while?"

    THAT IS SO DUMB.

    Here's the deal. I BLAST my list with content in EACH email AND at the end I give them an opportunity to get access to my paid stuff in EACH EMAIL!

    Here's the cold hard fact. The MORE OFFERS YOU MAKE coupled with good content, the more money you'll make!

    I make at least one offer a day and I make at least a few sales a day.

    forget trial and error, just copy what I'm doing, you'll be glad you did!

    my favorite "Idiocracy" quote:

    "Welcome to Costco, I love you!" - door greeter at Costco

    Your good ol' pal,

    Derek
    Hi Derek,

    It took me a while to scroll down through the hijacked part of this thread, but in reference to your original point, I have also been experimenting with this methodology, you know the one where you give value and "a pitch" in every email or newlstter.

    I have been doing this for a while now and I really like it.

    The reason I changed to this particular format was ultimately a function of watching other marketers.

    For some reason, whenever I subscribe to a list to simply to observe...

    ...as soon as I see that first "pitch", you know one of those "text only" emails with the same link sprinkled throughout...

    ...almost without thinking, muscle memory takes over and hunts down the unsubscribe link and "the click" is made.

    This is a phenomenon that pervades my existence, against which I am powerless.

    I have never purchased a WSO and honestly, I can't say that I have ever even been tempted on any of the the small number of occasions I have inadvertently wandered "in there".

    That being said, I do appreciate the concept you presented in your original post as I too have found that at least for me, being that I have an aporetic core, value has to be part of every instance of correspondence.

    For even one instance "not to have it" is completely unacceptable.

    Preach on brother ...

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

      Hi Derek,

      It took me a while to scroll down through the hijacked part of this thread,

      Wow... Really?
      I must have read the title of this area of the forum incorrectly? On my computer, it says:

      "Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum"

      :rolleyes:



      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

      I have never purchased a WSO and honestly, I can't say that I have ever even been tempted on any of the the small number of occasions I have inadvertently wandered "in there".

      Mark

      Oh, now I can see where the confusion comes in:

      You see, when someone pays for an advertisement thread in the WSO forum, and people discuss completely different matters or try to promote their own methods, it is sometimes referred to as "hijacking" the thread.

      But, this is a "free" thread in the discussion forum. So, most people who come here get the crazy idea that we are going to bounce ideas off one another, and try to learn from each other, and this crazy thing happens where people all have different experiences and believe different things.

      I hope this clarifies why you had to scroll down so much.




      By the way, there are some great WSO's "in there". You should always consider investing in yourself and in your business and take a look from time to time.
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      • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
        Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

        Wow... Really?
        I must have read the title of this area of the forum incorrectly? On my computer, it says:

        "Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum"

        :rolleyes:






        Oh, now I can see where the confusion comes in:

        You see, when someone pays for an advertisement thread in the WSO forum, and people discuss completely different matters or try to promote their own methods, it is sometimes referred to as "hijacking" the thread.

        But, this is a "free" thread in the discussion forum. So, most people who come here get the crazy idea that we are going to bounce ideas off one another, and try to learn from each other, and this crazy thing happens where people all have different experiences and believe different things.

        I hope this clarifies why you had to scroll down so much.




        By the way, there are some great WSO's "in there". You should always consider investing in yourself and in your business and take a look from time to time.
        I've found some great nuggets in the wso's like Mike Filsaime's automated webinar software for only $197! I scooped that up with a qickness...
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by richard burns View Post

      Thanks for the tips, I also read your other thread about the steps you take when send out emails. This is where I fall short as I need to improve my email marketing. Keep those sales coming in!

      thanks

      Rich
      Rich, it's definitely a great starting point and continue testing and tracking from there to find the formula that works for you, but you always must test and track as long as you live my brother...

      Originally Posted by Tony Marriott View Post

      I think the key point here is that good quality content combined with good offers is a successful email marketing strategy.


      Taken to the extremes, too much content probably means less revenue and too many offers probably means more unsubscribes.


      Like most things there is a middle ground that will be generally effective for everybody. Whether that separates the content from the offers or combines them in a single email is the choice of the individual list owner.


      Of course all these things should be tested and of course not all list are the same.


      For instance it would seem reasonable that a list built from give-aways would be happier with more free content whereas a list built from buyers is more likely to accept a higher level of sales pitches.
      It's all in KNOWING your audience. The traffic source is important as well and should be handled differently, however doing what I am describing has worked well for me in all of the different traffic types I've tried because if you turn the tables and look at it from a consumer perspective, if I join a list I am not stupid, I know they are selling something, however what determines whether I buy or not depends on the quality of the free content for starters...if I am interested in making pies and I join your list, and you send out great tips on pie making every day, even if you have a link to buy something at the end I'm still going to open your emails for the pie making tips and if you strike a cord enough with me I may click your buy link a few times before actually making a buying decision

      Originally Posted by thebitbotdotcom View Post

      Hi Derek,

      It took me a while to scroll down through the hijacked part of this thread, but in reference to your original point, I have also been experimenting with this methodology, you know the one where you give value and "a pitch" in every email or newlstter.

      I LOVE it when my posts are hijacked, because it keeps my thread on the first page of the forum for me, which gives me exposure while providing value to the readers!

      I have been doing this for a while now and I really like it.

      The reason I changed to this particular format was ultimately a function of watching other marketers.

      For some reason, whenever I subscribe to a list to simply to observe...

      ...as soon as I see that first "pitch", you know one of those "text only" emails with the same link sprinkled throughout...

      ...almost without thinking, muscle memory takes over and hunts down the unsubscribe link and "the click" is made.

      This is a phenomenon that pervades my existence, against which I am powerless.

      One of the things that I've noticed is that most people won't "opt out" they'll just "ignore" your emails. Which in a way is better because one day you're going to send out an email with a catchy title and it may just catch them at a time when they feel like they need you again! That is why I don't delete inactive emails from my list because of this fact.

      I have never purchased a WSO and honestly, I can't say that I have ever even been tempted on any of the the small number of occasions I have inadvertently wandered "in there".

      That being said, I do appreciate the concept you presented in your original post as I too have found that at least for me, being that I have an aporetic core, value has to be part of every instance of correspondence.

      For even one instance "not to have it" is completely unacceptable.

      Preach on brother ...

      Mark
      Yea man, some wso's are better than others. It's really how well you can teach people to implement what you are teaching them. I make almost %100 of my money in other niches than IM so I barely do wso's.

      I like other niches because the niche with the MOST serial refunders is "internet marketing" and related niches like "make money" etc... no thanks...That is why you'll see my wso's have a "NO REFUND" policy because when I sell a wso I don't care if 5,000 people buy or 50 buy, I make good money doing what I do in other niches. I would prefer to have 50 solid people who take things seriously and I will spend my time teaching and sharing with them. There are MUCH MORE productive ways for me to spend my time other than being here teaching lessons. That is why you'll see huge gaps of time in my posts.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        [U] I LOVE it when my posts are hijacked, because it keeps my thread on the first page of the forum for me, which gives me exposure while providing value to the readers!

        Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

        Wow... Really?
        I must have read the title of this area of the forum incorrectly? On my computer, it says:

        "Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum"

        :rolleyes:

        I'm not sure keeping this thread at the top of the forum is bringing you the kind of attention that you want it to?

        If you want to post a WSO post in the WSO section.

        If you want to post articles post in the articles section.


        But if you're going to post here, expect a discussion. And, if you're going to start threads with the word "HATE" in the title and then say of other peoples' methods "THAT IS SO DUMB" then you should expect a healthy debate.

        ...It's not "hijacking" your thread at all, because once again, it is a discussion forum.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

          I'm not sure keeping this thread at the top of the forum is bringing you the kind of attention that you want it to?

          If you want to post a WSO post in the WSO section.

          If you want to post articles post in the articles section.


          But if you're going to post here, expect a discussion. And, if you're going to start threads with the word "HATE" in the title and then say of other peoples' methods "THAT IS SO DUMB" then you should expect a healthy debate.

          ...It's not "hijacking" your thread at all, because once again, it is a discussion forum.
          Mike, man, you gotta calm down brother. I was using the poster's terminology where he was saying it was a bad thing, I was looking at it as a good thing!

          You could have also commented on what I said about Mike Filsaime's product, dude, get some sleep and relax, it's gonna be OK! Listen you CAN respond ANY WAY YOU WANT, but man, you're gonna wear yourself out and stress yourself out by always looking at the negative. You know there IS such thing as positive discussion, let's try it...
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      • Profile picture of the author John Durham
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post


        I like other niches because the niche with the MOST serial refunders is "internet marketing"
        How bad could refunds be?

        In a year and a half I dont even think I have one percent. Lets say it was 5% though.... How badly could that hurt you?

        Rings of inexperience to me.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by MobApps View Post

          I agree with your concept as long as it is good usable content followed by an offer. If they were happy with the usable content they are more likely to click the link to your offer.

          What I see happening a lot out there which I have found to be a total turn off is the ones that email me several times a day and a lot of the time it is the same spill for their offer. Not different offers & NO USABLE CONTENT!

          I unsubscribe these as they clog up my email. I get tons of email a day and don't need to waste time on repeat & replicated emails.

          Just sayin...
          The ONLY dude I let get away with that in my inbox is Joe Lavery because he sends the same three emails but all at once. I thought that was clever in the fact that it actually got me to open them more. When someone does something that works on me, I can appreciate that. However I have to be honest and say that I haven't tried that with any of my lists yet, maybe I should grow a pair and give it a whirl.

          But I totally feel what you're saying about getting several emails a day where the marketer is clearly not trying to put any effort into giving value, I just ignore their emails.

          Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

          How bad could refunds be?

          In a year and a half I dont even think I have one percent. Lets say it was 5% though.... How badly could that hurt you?

          Rings of inexperience to me.
          I see what you're saying, I guess refunds depend on a lot of factors. For instance, in the niches I'm working in now I have a very very low refund request rate, I've always noticed that is was higher in the IM niche, however everyone's experience can be different and if you have really low refund rates in the IM niche, then I should be watching some of your stuff.
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          • Profile picture of the author John Durham
            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

            if you have really low refund rates in the IM niche, then I should be watching some of your stuff.
            Or maybe Im not selling hard enough. In any event, it seems fairly normal. Im sure Im not the only one who thinks thats about average, but maybe Im naive.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Derek,
            I hope also that if someone is extremely rude to me that a moderator may come to my defense as well.
            It depends on the kind of rude. There are some things no-one gets to say to anyone here.

            There are different levels of tolerance, though. Some of us, myself included, can be brusque and abrasive at times. We are allowed to be bashed a bit more than someone who is consistently civil and polite, and who never asks for the grief.

            The way you approach others is pretty much how we let people approach you, with some room for error on either side, of course.

            There is one overriding rule on this, but I doubt you'd ever trigger it. It's pretty simple: If you are rude through the help desk and I find out about it, it's an instant ban. Might be temporary, and might not. But it won't be short. And that applies to anyone here, regardless of who you are, how long you've been here, how much you spend with the forum, how much you need your WSO money, or any other factors.

            I don't care. Get snarky with Thomas - even a little bit - through the help desk system and I see it or hear about it... Buh-bye.

            Oh yeah... Allen has pretty much the same rule on that. And he sees some of those tickets from time to time on his own. So it's probably not a gamble worth taking.

            Like I said... I doubt you'd trigger that. I just mention it as a sort of reminder for folks from time to time, and this seemed an appropriate time.


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
              Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

              Or maybe Im not selling hard enough. In any event, it seems fairly normal. Im sure Im not the only one who thinks thats about average, but maybe Im naive.
              I don't think you're naive, I've seen your posts, you're probably doing pretty well for yourself.

              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Derek,It depends on the kind of rude. There are some things no-one gets to say to anyone here.

              There are different levels of tolerance, though. Some of us, myself included, can be brusque and abrasive at times. We are allowed to be bashed a bit more than someone who is consistently civil and polite, and who never asks for the grief.

              The way you approach others is pretty much how we let people approach you, with some room for error on either side, of course.

              There is one overriding rule on this, but I doubt you'd ever trigger it. It's pretty simple: If you are rude through the help desk and I find out about it, it's an instant ban. Might be temporary, and might not. But it won't be short. And that applies to anyone here, regardless of who you are, how long you've been here, how much you spend with the forum, how much you need your WSO money, or any other factors.

              I don't care. Get snarky with Thomas - even a little bit - through the help desk system and I see it or hear about it... Buh-bye.

              Oh yeah... Allen has pretty much the same rule on that. And he sees some of those tickets from time to time on his own. So it's probably not a gamble worth taking.

              Like I said... I doubt you'd trigger that. I just mention it as a sort of reminder for folks from time to time, and this seemed an appropriate time.


              Paul
              Paul before when I thought you were deleting my posts I posted a grievance in the help desk, thank God I was very polite!

              Thanks for the heads up and I'll make sure to keep my nose clean here!

              Derek
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      • Profile picture of the author capitalalchemy
        I don't agree with this approach, but it does depend on the market too. Maybe people in the IM market are used to being sold things at every moment, but people in other markets are not.

        I have been working on lists on markets other than make money, and I personally have never found this to work well. What does seem to work well is to hook people up for a period of time and then give them an offer they can't refuse.

        At the same time this has back-fired on me. One reason was because I was building lists that were capturing people who had no intention of ever paying for information from the get-go.

        This goes back to keyword research. A low search volume "buyer" keyword is ten times more proactive than a high volume "just looking" keyword.

        I didn't think about it when it applied to lists, but it does. Plus I spoil my lists too much, because I enjoy creating products. That's a bad combination. I love making presentations, ebooks, guides and writing informative emails, as a result -- the people on my lists don't take me seriously.

        Learn from my mistakes
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    This thread is of no benefit to anyone.

    I say close it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      This thread is of no benefit to anyone.

      I say close it.
      Ramone you can respond any way your heart desires man and each of your posts are real gems.
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      • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        forget trial and error, just copy what I'm doing, you'll be glad you did!

        That almost sounds like you're saying "forget testing, just blindly copy what I'm doing." And that's not a good idea for anyone. Doesn't matter if your Joe Bob New Marketer or Ted Nicholas, testing is one of the secrets of profitability.

        As Mike Tucker said, different lists needed to be handled differently, and testing IS the key to discovering what is best for each list.


        Also:

        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        Ramone you can respond any way your heart desires man and each of your posts are real gems.
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        You could have also commented on what I said about Mike Filsaime's product, dude, get some sleep and relax, it's gonna be OK! Listen you CAN respond ANY WAY YOU WANT, but man, you're gonna wear yourself out and stress yourself out by always looking at the negative. You know there IS such thing as positive discussion, let's try it...

        In my view, using sarcasm to belittle other posters is just a work-around way of controlling what people post on your thread (without actually coming out and telling them what they can or cannot post). Fortunately, the two posters you attempted to bully aren't meek, so they're not going to run off with their tails between their legs and stop posting.

        ~Becky
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by R Hagel View Post

          That almost sounds like you're saying "forget testing, just blindly copy what I'm doing." And that's not a good idea for anyone. Doesn't matter if your Joe Bob New Marketer or Ted Nicholas, testing is one of the secrets of profitability.

          As Mike Tucker said, different lists needed to be handled differently, and testing IS the key to discovering what is best for each list.


          Also:

          In my view, using sarcasm to belittle other posters is just a work-around way of controlling what people post on your thread (without actually coming out and telling them what they can or cannot post). Fortunately, the two posters you attempted to bully aren't meek, so they're not going to run off with their tails between their legs and stop posting.

          ~Becky
          it's so cute how you are trying to impress these guys.

          now if I may, I'd like to add some points to my original idea if this is OK.

          #1: I should have wrote that "I SUPPORT TESTING AND TRACKING" because I do.

          #2: I have learned a lot from the various responses on this thread and I thank you all for your wisdom, especially those who have given me great ideas on email marketing.

          #3: I do expect people to comment back with more hateful things and I do expect there to be other people who jump in and attack with the others, this is a public forum and you all have the right to jump in, I'm learning what I can and teaching what I can and I hope that the few who are looking for value can see it and use it and I hope that I have helped at least one person on here.

          I appreciate every comment, good or bad because it teaches me things about how people interact in groups online, how they act individually and is very interesting.
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          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

            it's so cute how you are trying to impress these guys.
            Becky doesn't need to "try to impress" anyone. She is one of the most respected members of the forum. You really should look before you leap.
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            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
              Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

              Becky doesn't need to "try to impress" anyone. She is one of the most respected members of the forum. You really should look before you leap.
              I totally screwed up in this thread, now I'm trying to live it down buddy.
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              • Profile picture of the author John Durham
                Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                I totally screwed up in this thread, now I'm trying to live it down buddy.
                Good job buddy, I hear ya. You are going through fire. Turning into a Warrior. Its all good.
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by Michael Milken View Post

          People are trying to belittle him for not going along with usual WF culture, so why can't he defend himself? The guy has an idea, people don't like it and are pretty nasty about it in some cases. He's supposed to let it happen just because have thousands of posts?
          Thank you sir.
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          • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
            Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

            it's so cute how you are trying to impress these guys.
            Becky does not need to TRY and impress. If you have spent any time at all reading her posts you will find her to be smart, intelligent and an inspiration to people on this forum.

            I am so 'gatvol' of this attention-seeking thread of yours.

            You could have written a book already, pdf'd it, made a cover and set it up for sale with all the time that you have wasted here getting upset because people had the audacity to disagree with you.

            Di
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            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
              Originally Posted by DianaHeuser View Post

              Becky does not need to TRY and impress. If you have spent any time at all reading her posts you will find her to be smart, intelligent and an inspiration to people on this forum.

              I am so 'gatvol' of this attention-seeking thread of yours.

              You could have written a book already, pdf'd it, made a cover and set it up for sale with all the time that you have wasted here getting upset because people had the audacity to disagree with you.

              Di
              Di, you are a good friend and I don't blame you for backing your friend, I would have done the same thing, well said!
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              • Profile picture of the author sal64
                Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

                Di, you are a good friend and I don't blame you for backing your friend, I would have done the same thing, well said!
                Beck is an experienced head on here and a super copy writer to boot.

                BTW, I just read a great book which I can recomend: How To Win Friends And Influence People.

                /sarcasm.
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          • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
            Mr Soto,
            it's so cute how you are trying to impress these guys.
            You really need to get to know people better before you start playing the sexist crap and expect to get away with it. Becky's experience and helpfulness impressed most of us long ago. And she won't be drawn in to that sort of ridiculous game, which is probably good for you. She'd tear you a new one, in 3/4 time.

            Now, speaking from the moderator role: You can get away with a lot of abrasive stuff here. It's the Warrior Forum, not a kindergarten. But demeaning sexism is not something we tolerate.

            Do that again and it's a month off.


            Paul
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            • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
              Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

              Mr Soto,You really need to get to know people better before you start playing the sexist crap and expect to get away with it. Becky's experience and helpfulness impressed most of us long ago. And she won't be drawn in to that sort of ridiculous game, which is probably good for you. She'd tear you a new one, in 3/4 time.

              Now, speaking from the moderator role: You can get away with a lot of abrasive stuff here. It's the Warrior Forum, not a kindergarten. But demeaning sexism is not something we tolerate.

              Do that again and it's a month off.


              Paul
              Paul, I respectfully will not continue this thread or reply in it, I will let your friends attack me and not defend myself as it appears they can say anything to me but I cannot defend myself. And I wasn't trying to be sexist, I would have said that to a guy too, but I digress.

              from now on, when one of your friends is negative to me for reason or no, I will just take it.
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              • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
                Spare us the martyr schtick, Derek. No-one is buying it.

                You roared in here a few days ago posting what can only be described as articles, one after another, and thrashing about like a bear with a burr. Whenever someone disagreed with you, you got snarky. I think you - and a lot of others reading this - are getting a useful lesson in the pointlessness of trying to intimidate a crowd.

                Especially this crowd.

                As far as the not "trying to be sexist," clearly it didn't take a lot of effort. Casual rudeness never does.


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                • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
                  Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

                  Spare us the martyr schtick, Derek. No-one is buying it.

                  You roared in here a few days ago posting what can only be described as articles, one after another, and thrashing about like a bear with a burr. Whenever someone disagreed with you, you got snarky. I think you - and a lot of others reading this - are getting a useful lesson in the pointlessness of trying to intimidate a crowd.

                  Especially this crowd.

                  As far as the not "trying to be sexist," clearly it didn't take a lot of effort. Casual rudeness never does.


                  Paul
                  Paul, I have heeded your warning, you've seen my new posts to be legitimate posts but yet they are all being deleted, as you can see by my new threads and comments that they are all in line with a great attitude and not one ounce of sarcasm. I have done what you asked. Please stop deleting my threads...
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeTucker
      Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

      Mike, man, you gotta calm down brother. I was using the poster's terminology where he was saying it was a bad thing, I was looking at it as a good thing!

      You could have also commented on what I said about Mike Filsaime's product, dude, get some sleep and relax, it's gonna be OK! Listen you CAN respond ANY WAY YOU WANT, but man, you're gonna wear yourself out and stress yourself out by always looking at the negative. You know there IS such thing as positive discussion, let's try it...

      Umm... Not sure why you think I'm not calm? (btw I just woke-up from a great sleep.) I have purposely added smileys throughout this thread to show that I'm not upset at all. I apologize if it has been taken that way.

      Yes, I did purposely choose to avoid commenting about Mike Filsaime. I didn't have anything positive to add to the conversation and didn't want it to veer off course any further than it already has. :p




      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      This thread is of no benefit to anyone.

      I say close it.
      Ouch.

      Well, it started off with what could have been some good conversation about different email campaign structures. And, it became a good example of how not to start-- and perhaps continue-- a thread?



      Originally Posted by Michael Milken View Post

      People are trying to belittle him for not going along with usual WF culture, so why can't he defend himself? The guy has an idea, people don't like it and are pretty nasty about it in some cases. He's supposed to let it happen just because have thousands of posts?

      I most certainly didn't say I don't like his idea, only the way in which he presented it.
      And, I'm not trying to say he must follow WF "culture", only the WF rules.

      I hope that I am not one of the "cases" which appeared to be "nasty" about it, and if so then I sincerely apologize.




      So maybe I'm part of the problem... I'll bow out of the conversation, then.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
        Originally Posted by MikeTucker View Post

        So maybe I'm part of the problem... I'll bow out of the conversation, then.
        Not at all Mike.
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    • Profile picture of the author bobcath
      Originally Posted by ramone_johnny View Post

      This thread is of no benefit to anyone.

      I say close it.
      Johnny whilst I agree in principle with your suggestion, I think this thread needs to stay here as a practical example to all, of how not to conduct yourself on a public forum. So rather than having to interpret the rules or understand expected protocols, new readers can see a worked example of bad practice.

      Agree totally with Michael in that it was the semantics of the first post which set the scene.

      A lesson for all!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    I am not a Super Mod, but if there is one thing I have learned in the time I have been here, it's this...

    It's the INITIAL post that sets the tone for a thread. This is a perfect and predictable example of that concept.

    I am not saying that this thread should be deleted, but if I remember correctly, there have been several threads closed over the years because the OP made COMMANDS and said their way was the ONLY way. Not only could that be bad advice for a lot of people, no matter how well-intentioned, but it doesn't do much to foster a real discussion either.

    I'm sure I am not the only person reading this thread that has a new person on their forum radar. (Though it was actually an earlier deleted thread that put them on mine)

    Furthermore, Becky rocks!

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author Gengis
    Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

    If you are hovering over this because you want to see what it's all about, I invite you to click the link and come inside, it's warm in here and you'll love what you learn...

    __________________________________________________ ____________

    Have you ever heard the advice: "Blast your list with content and send them an offer every once in a while?"

    THAT IS SO DUMB.

    Here's the deal. I BLAST my list with content in EACH email AND at the end I give them an opportunity to get access to my paid stuff in EACH EMAIL!

    Here's the cold hard fact. The MORE OFFERS YOU MAKE coupled with good content, the more money you'll make!

    I make at least one offer a day and I make at least a few sales a day.

    forget trial and error, just copy what I'm doing, you'll be glad you did!

    my favorite "Idiocracy" quote:

    "Welcome to Costco, I love you!" - door greeter at Costco

    Your good ol' pal,

    Derek

    Derek you're so right my man! Being so cautious isn't gonna do anything but "make you less money" .. We're gonna piss people off anyways and we could never please everyone so just add some really good content and a link to buy daily..

    Love the Costco quote lmao
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  • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
    first, I'm apologizing to anyone that I may have offended. I truly am sorry.

    Also, thanks Gengis for your support man, I appreciate it.
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  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    I've never been convinced there is a "one size fits all" method of marketing. Do something that seems rational, if it doesn't work - do something else. Other people's methods are worth trying out, but because something is working for them doesn't mean it will for you. Markets are fluid, and the marketer has to be so as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

      I've never been convinced there is a "one size fits all" method of marketing. Do something that seems rational, if it doesn't work - do something else. Other people's methods are worth trying out, but because something is working for them doesn't mean it will for you. Markets are fluid, and the marketer has to be so as well.
      HeySal, you are completely right. I could have worded what I said differently in my original post. What I should have said was although this was my personal experience, it is not a one size fits all. I will be more careful with how I word stuff in the future.
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      • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
        Please stop deleting my threads...
        Post them in the right sections.

        I deleted one of your threads earlier today, along with 8 others at the same time. They all had one thing in common: They were SEO discussions, which do not belong in the main section.

        You really need to spend some time reading the rules threads at the top of this section. You'll quickly realize that none of this is personal.


        Paul
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        • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
          Originally Posted by Paul Myers View Post

          Post them in the right sections.

          I deleted one of your threads earlier today, along with 8 others at the same time. They all had one thing in common: They were SEO discussions, which do not belong in the main section.

          You really need to spend some time reading the rules threads at the top of this section. You'll quickly realize that none of this is personal.


          Paul
          I realized that earlier, I will read all the rules before making another post. I hope also that if someone is extremely rude to me that a moderator may come to my defense as well. But as far as my end I'm making every effort to do this better and I will definitely go over the rules thoroughly before posting again.
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  • Profile picture of the author MobApps
    I agree with your concept as long as it is good usable content followed by an offer. If they were happy with the usable content they are more likely to click the link to your offer.

    What I see happening a lot out there which I have found to be a total turn off is the ones that email me several times a day and a lot of the time it is the same spill for their offer. Not different offers & NO USABLE CONTENT!

    I unsubscribe these as they clog up my email. I get tons of email a day and don't need to waste time on repeat & replicated emails.

    Just sayin...
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  • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
    you're awesome if you're doing it successfully that could keep a lot of fellow warriors out of an unexpected horror. sometimes it can blindside you and people are just totally unaware of how spam can destroy everything you are doing. With that being said the only everyday emails I have ever seen be successful are "article a day", "niche a day" so what exactly are you doing? Let me just say that email is an entity all of its own. You establish yourself first before you have a list that respects you enough to receive your emails. It's outright hard to get there.

    derek soto wrote:

    I agree Claire that spam is awful. I created this thread to show people that Yes, you can make an offer in each email and it will generate more sales for you, but I'll make a new thread explaining "how" to do it...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    Main Internet Marketing Discussion Forum
    Where We Talk About Derek Soto
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  • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
    i don't think you have anything to live down i like this thread. its very good information for newbies about email. don't delete this thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
      Originally Posted by sal64 View Post

      Some of us don't see making even more money as our highest priority. It may shock you that some of us oldies actually enjoy what we do and have found the right balance between work and play.
      Sal, beautiful - I couldn't have said it better!

      Paul
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      • Profile picture of the author sal64
        Originally Posted by Paul Barrs View Post

        Sal, beautiful - I couldn't have said it better!

        Paul
        why thank you sweetheart.
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    • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
      Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

      i don't think you have anything to live down i like this thread. its very good information for newbies about email. don't delete this thread.
      Thank you Claire all I was trying to do was just that, give good information to people who would like to take action on it. It's unfortunate that the people who want to learn have to sift through people singling out parts of things I said to launch an all out assault on it.

      I showed my brother this thread and he was like, "Well, once you get through all of the battles, there's actually some usable stuff in there!" I agree. On the forum, because it's public, we will have battles and that's part of the appeal for some. Not me so much, but for some.

      I hope you never see me go into someone else's thread and single out one little thing they say and start attacking them for it, I just think it's bad form, and again that's just a personal preference as people can say whatever is on their mind, good or bad and that's cool. But we each can decide what type of person we are going to be on here and I learned how to be a little bit better and more careful.

      However I have also learned a few lessons about how and how not to defend myself in this thread. I learned a little better how to "pick my battles" so to speak. What's great about this forum is that there are so many different types of people and we all have a different approach on things, it's very interesting and a great lesson on human behavior to watch it all unfold...
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      • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
        Originally Posted by Derek Soto View Post

        Thank you Claire all I was trying to do was just that, give good information to people who would like to take action on it. It's unfortunate that the people who want to learn have to sift through people singling out parts of things I said to launch an all out assault on it.

        I showed my brother this thread and he was like, "Well, once you get through all of the battles, there's actually some usable stuff in there!" I agree. On the forum, because it's public, we will have battles and that's part of the appeal for some. Not me so much, but for some.

        I hope you never see me go into someone else's thread and single out one little thing they say and start attacking them for it, I just think it's bad form, and again that's just a personal preference as people can say whatever is on their mind, good or bad and that's cool. But we each can decide what type of person we are going to be on here and I learned how to be a little bit better and more careful.

        However I have also learned a few lessons about how and how not to defend myself in this thread. I learned a little better how to "pick my battles" so to speak. What's great about this forum is that there are so many different types of people and we all have a different approach on things, it's very interesting and a great lesson on human behavior to watch it all unfold...
        Hi Derek,

        Really, just let it go. You are only a victim if you choose to be. Don't choose to be.

        Okay, here's the deal. Any parts that were initially "singled out" were done so because someone else had a DIFFERENT point of view, but YOU MR. SOTO didn't take it as being "different" you took it as being "wrong". Then you went on to get upset because somebody offered their own point of view.

        Nobody came in here saying "this is Derek Soto's thread, let's see what we can attack hom for." You keep playing the victim card, or martyr card, or whatever, and THAT'S what's doing more harm than good.

        Also, some of your responses to what you call criticism do not seem genuine, at all. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's odd.

        One other thing, in one of your posts you hinted that people were being "extremely rude" to you. Believe me, there was only ONE line in this ENTIRE thread that even came close to approaching rudeness, and it didn't come from any of the respondants to this thread. Nobody is being rude to you.

        So, from one Warrior to another, please stop acting like a vicitm. Brush yourself off. Truly absorb what's been given to you in this thread. You have no idea how fortunate you are.

        All the best,
        Michael

        p.s. I almost didn't post this because I didn't want it to look like I was "piling on". However, it is meant in the spirit of being helpful, so it seemed better to post it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Barrs
          Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

          Okay, here's the deal. Any parts that were initially "singled out" were done so because someone else had a DIFFERENT point of view, but YOU MR. SOTO didn't take it as being "different" you took it as being "wrong". Then you went on to get upset because somebody offered their own point of view.
          Each time I log back in WF I see my subscribed threads and that another post has been made in this one - loving it - gives me a great laugh every time I log back in. I only laugh because I remember once feeling that I needed to be so defensive about my own opinions as well! Ha. Cracks me up.

          Derek, your OP is sound. It has good merit and is worth good discussion... it's only after a few people posted an alternate point of view and you responded that things went south

          As for the OP, I like it so much that I'm considering posting it with comment to my Blog. Of course if I did so I would do it and link back to your site.

          Considering.

          Paul Barrs
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Some peoples children, honestly....

    -Chris
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    • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
      its funny i giggled. but the truth is all it takes is one smart remark one unhappy person and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. i have usually seen this happen when some one offers something freely i don't know why but i have watched an entire business go down from people being disgruntled and acting out.

      Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

      Some peoples children, honestly....

      -Chris
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      • Profile picture of the author Derek Soto
        Originally Posted by John Durham View Post

        Good job buddy, I hear ya. You are going through fire. Turning into a Warrior. Its all good.
        The fire is where the learning comes from and I'm ready for it.

        Originally Posted by Spartan480 View Post

        A marketer that uses this method of promotion to great effect is Matt Furey. He sends e-mails every single day and sometimes multiple times a day and he always has a link to one of his products at the end. The thing is, he always has something interesting and engaging to say and he's gone against the grain of what most marketers say about not sending "too many e-mails". His products are average at best (at least the ones that I've bought) and WAY over-priced but he has really good copy writing skills so he makes a sh*t load of money.

        I've also been on other marketers lists that send e-mails everyday with nothing but affiliate offers. Those get unsubscribed quick.
        I agree, if you have something of value to offer in your emails that you send people, you'll be in great shape. It's just people who don't even think about what they say and just lazily send out an e-mail. I noticed that once I started spending at least a half an hour on my emails or more is when they started to become very valuable to my wallet. You get what you put in...

        Originally Posted by capitalalchemy View Post

        I don't agree with this approach, but it does depend on the market too. Maybe people in the IM market are used to being sold things at every moment, but people in other markets are not.

        ( the list I was talking about has nothing to do with IM )

        I have been working on lists on markets other than make money, and I personally have never found this to work well. What does seem to work well is to hook people up for a period of time and then give them an offer they can't refuse.

        At the same time this has back-fired on me. One reason was because I was building lists that were capturing people who had no intention of ever paying for information from the get-go.

        ( the most important step in the "traffic getting" stage of business is the traffic source! )

        This goes back to keyword research. A low search volume "buyer" keyword is ten times more proactive than a high volume "just looking" keyword.

        ( agree fully )

        I didn't think about it when it applied to lists, but it does. Plus I spoil my lists too much, because I enjoy creating products. That's a bad combination. I love making presentations, ebooks, guides and writing informative emails, as a result -- the people on my lists don't take me seriously.

        Learn from my mistakes
        I like this post and I appreciate you taking the time to write it! I too have spoiled my list at times and it's better to sprinkle that in rather than do it all the time because they will appreciate you more.

        Thank you Spartan480 and capitalalchemy for making the choice to respond with awesome and useful information, which is just my personal opinion and nothing more. You didn't have to, but you did and for that I am grateful. Your posts were a breath of fresh air!
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  • Profile picture of the author Spartan480
    A marketer that uses this method of promotion to great effect is Matt Furey. He sends e-mails every single day and sometimes multiple times a day and he always has a link to one of his products at the end. The thing is, he always has something interesting and engaging to say and he's gone against the grain of what most marketers say about not sending "too many e-mails". His products are average at best (at least the ones that I've bought) and WAY over-priced but he has really good copy writing skills so he makes a sh*t load of money.

    I've also been on other marketers lists that send e-mails everyday with nothing but affiliate offers. Those get unsubscribed quick.
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  • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
    By the way Derek, I still stand by my defense of Becky but I apologise for the 'attention-seeking thread' comment

    Di
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