why I HATE "cautious" marketing

Can you say "irony"?

~M~

Umm... You don't know anything about that particular list? How I built it, who is on it, what I market to them? :confused:


ROTFLMAO!!! Yeah, just hold your breath while I send you one of my most profitable lists so that you can teach me how to kill the golden goose. :rolleyes:

Somehow, I don't think you could even afford to market to it anyway, seeing has how it is a salutation card list of over 3200 families, and not an email list.



Thanks buddy but I've been in the game for a few minutes. The fact is that I do actually have a few lists where I fit purchase links into almost every email. I also have two "junk" lists that just spam with cheap offers twice a day.



My point was that every list is different. You cannot use a blanket strategy for every one and think that it is going to be the most effective way every single time.

The niche, how you built the list, how you build trust and specifically credibility with them... Now to mention what the responsive members actually want and need, and when their paydays are. (Do you even know what days the people on your lists get paid, so that you can take that into account when making offers, rather than just sending them things every day?)


No, in my experience, trying to grab every opportunity to market because you are scared of missing out on money, that is "cautious" and defensive. Building massive trust and credibility, then sending out offers that cost far more than anything my competitors have the guts to charge-- this is "aggressive" marketing.

Allow me to clarify, as I did kind of draw out these responses on purpose to sharpen my point:

That particular list is a salutation card list... You know, Birthday Cards, Thinking of You Cards, etc... So they don't expect to get them every day, and in fact getting them once a month has a massive impact. (Oh, and the "open" rate is very high, because everyone on the list knows I like to put gift cards in them.)

As for my email lists, I do email most of them every day. But I have found that my more profitable lists have closer to a 30:1 ratio in favor of content versus sales offers. Because they get daily lessons that are of very high value and are easy to read and use every day, by the time I actually offer them something they can buy, if we aren't "friends" then I at least have massive credibility.

Even on these lists, I get people that buy throughout the month... Often I get responses that say something along the lines of, "Well Mike it sounds great, but as you know I got to pay the mortgage with this check, but I promise I'm going to buy if you hold a copy for me until my next payday."



Listen, I'm not trying to say to use my method or to prove it to you. My point is the same that I made in my first post in this thread:

Test, Track, and Tweak your method for about a year or so and see what is really giving you the best results. Don't try to use a one-size-fits-all strategy. Every person is different, and every list is different.


If you're worrying about missing out on sales opportunities, or if the money you are making is not consistent, you've got bigger problems than how often you put "buy now" buttons in front of people.

Once there was a farmer who discovered his goose laid golden eggs. Greedily, he pushed the goose harder and harder, forcing it to lay more and more eggs. Overexerted, the goose fell over and died. The farmer had no more golden eggs.



Yes. These threads seem to be aimed and trying to get customers for yourself.




No, I didn't say it was an email list originally, because I knew you would respond, and wanted to illustrate that you are jumping to conclusions. And once again, yes, I know I could drain the list for more money. But, once again, I have learned from the story of the golden goose.



Most everyone does. But it is a good way to cast the net wide without investing much time or money. And again, it is not really "spam" so much as cheap opt-ins.


Actually, if that was the purpose of your post, then wouldn't you have named it something like, "More Offers = More Sales" and spoke in your first post about how it is a great way to structure your email campaign across multiple niches?

What you did was make a controversial title, put down other methods, and promote your own. In fact, you even went so far as to get upset when people didn't agree with you?



OK. Call me naive. Silly me, I called it "advanced" marketing, but I guess it doesn't really help me very much to know when people get paid, and when they get their "free" check twice per year, and to adjust my offers accordingly.

Thanks for your Marketing 101 insight about giving them opportunities to get more great information in addition to what I give them for free. I'll change my entire business to this model now. :p





OK, Marketing 101, sure. But consider this: If I provide days, weeks, or even months of things to them that "wow" or "inspire" or touch on their "buying signals" and then I don't bother trying to sell them anything for them to "grab" well, that is just another way to do it, and it is very, very effective.

I'm not saying your way is wrong, just defending the fact that there are other effective methods.





Please note that what I very clearly said was about putting "buy now" buttons in front of people-- And I didn't say anything about putting them in email.




The lists that I built with SEO and Solo Ads are very low quality. People searching for information in Google almost always want free information, and are not interested in buying things, compared to leads that I have generated through other methods. People from Solo Ads are on tons of other lists. So I never put in the effort into these, and they run on autopilot. On the rare occasions people buy something, once or twice a month, then I move them to a buyers list and actually pay attention to them.




This is a curious statement. After all, the title of your post is " why I HATE "cautious" marketing" ...And in fact, a couple of us have gone out of our way to express what we believe to be positive and constructive comments in a thread that was started with a negative title and a negative idea, saying that the way many people run their email campaigns is wrong, and they should use your method?

I do...

It's about using common sense.

Some of us don't see making even more money as our highest priority. It may shock you that some of us oldies actually enjoy what we do and have found the right balance between work and play.

Maybe it's my ego, but I get a buzz out of helping my customers improve their lives. I call it concious capitalism.

And if that means that I leave money on the table, then so be it... after all, there is plenty for everyone.

Some of us also know our lists well. Can we make more from them? Yeah I guess so... but as he said... why kill the Goose through excess. If you can do what you do with your list and get away with it, then all power to you.

But please, don't come on here and extol what you do as the holy grail... which is how it comes across.

Sal

PS: Keep it up with Paul. Popcorn anyone?

I've found some great nuggets in the wso's like Mike Filsaime's automated webinar software for only $197! I scooped that up with a qickness...

I'm not sure keeping this thread at the top of the forum is bringing you the kind of attention that you want it to?

If you want to post a WSO post in the WSO section.

If you want to post articles post in the articles section.


But if you're going to post here, expect a discussion. And, if you're going to start threads with the word "HATE" in the title and then say of other peoples' methods "THAT IS SO DUMB" then you should expect a healthy debate.

...It's not "hijacking" your thread at all, because once again, it is a discussion forum.

How bad could refunds be?

In a year and a half I dont even think I have one percent. Lets say it was 5% though.... How badly could that hurt you?

Rings of inexperience to me.

I don't agree with this approach, but it does depend on the market too. Maybe people in the IM market are used to being sold things at every moment, but people in other markets are not.

I have been working on lists on markets other than make money, and I personally have never found this to work well. What does seem to work well is to hook people up for a period of time and then give them an offer they can't refuse.

At the same time this has back-fired on me. One reason was because I was building lists that were capturing people who had no intention of ever paying for information from the get-go.

This goes back to keyword research. A low search volume "buyer" keyword is ten times more proactive than a high volume "just looking" keyword.

I didn't think about it when it applied to lists, but it does. Plus I spoil my lists too much, because I enjoy creating products. That's a bad combination. I love making presentations, ebooks, guides and writing informative emails, as a result -- the people on my lists don't take me seriously.

Learn from my mistakes

That almost sounds like you're saying "forget testing, just blindly copy what I'm doing." And that's not a good idea for anyone. Doesn't matter if your Joe Bob New Marketer or Ted Nicholas, testing is one of the secrets of profitability.

As Mike Tucker said, different lists needed to be handled differently, and testing IS the key to discovering what is best for each list.


Also:


In my view, using sarcasm to belittle other posters is just a work-around way of controlling what people post on your thread (without actually coming out and telling them what they can or cannot post). Fortunately, the two posters you attempted to bully aren't meek, so they're not going to run off with their tails between their legs and stop posting.

~Becky

Not at all Mike.

Post them in the right sections.

I deleted one of your threads earlier today, along with 8 others at the same time. They all had one thing in common: They were SEO discussions, which do not belong in the main section.

You really need to spend some time reading the rules threads at the top of this section. You'll quickly realize that none of this is personal.


Paul

why thank you sweetheart.

Hi Derek,

Really, just let it go. You are only a victim if you choose to be. Don't choose to be.

Okay, here's the deal. Any parts that were initially "singled out" were done so because someone else had a DIFFERENT point of view, but YOU MR. SOTO didn't take it as being "different" you took it as being "wrong". Then you went on to get upset because somebody offered their own point of view.

Nobody came in here saying "this is Derek Soto's thread, let's see what we can attack hom for." You keep playing the victim card, or martyr card, or whatever, and THAT'S what's doing more harm than good.

Also, some of your responses to what you call criticism do not seem genuine, at all. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's odd.

One other thing, in one of your posts you hinted that people were being "extremely rude" to you. Believe me, there was only ONE line in this ENTIRE thread that even came close to approaching rudeness, and it didn't come from any of the respondants to this thread. Nobody is being rude to you.

So, from one Warrior to another, please stop acting like a vicitm. Brush yourself off. Truly absorb what's been given to you in this thread. You have no idea how fortunate you are.

All the best,
Michael

p.s. I almost didn't post this because I didn't want it to look like I was "piling on". However, it is meant in the spirit of being helpful, so it seemed better to post it.

The fire is where the learning comes from and I'm ready for it.

I agree, if you have something of value to offer in your emails that you send people, you'll be in great shape. It's just people who don't even think about what they say and just lazily send out an e-mail. I noticed that once I started spending at least a half an hour on my emails or more is when they started to become very valuable to my wallet. You get what you put in...

I like this post and I appreciate you taking the time to write it! I too have spoiled my list at times and it's better to sprinkle that in rather than do it all the time because they will appreciate you more.

Thank you Spartan480 and capitalalchemy for making the choice to respond with awesome and useful information, which is just my personal opinion and nothing more. You didn't have to, but you did and for that I am grateful. Your posts were a breath of fresh air!