not easy to jv unless you are in make money niche , right?

There would appear to be a certain bias present and as well you could say that it is accurate that if you only look at a JV in one layer, the truth though is very different.

In the Real world, (the Business world) a Joint Venture is a multi-dimensional multi-faceted, business arrangement, the process of a "Real Joint Venture" is something that benefits each party and often plays to the strengths and weaknesses of its participants.

(in short you have to bring something to the table that your prospective partners cannot resist)

You are correct in your assessment that without a list you may have a hard time developing a Marketing Joint Venture...

The real problem here is that what people are calling a joint venture is really just an electronic transaction, not a real Joint Venture.

In a Joint venture you have people working together for a common goal, but if there is only a single definition of what your trying to do, build lists for example the scope of that electronic transaction is so limited that it fails to provide a benefit for one or more parties involved in the transaction.

Really the only way to develop a "Real Joint Venture" is to find the right partner and then develop a relationship built upon trust, that is not an easy thing to do.

Beware of the those that want to "Talk about your plans or your ideals" if your not careful they will take your ideals and make money and you will find yourself left out in the cold.

An NDA should be a standard part of any discussion.

(though it is not enough to just think that will protect you from some marketers that will still take your intellectual property and make money while giving you nothing)

I believe there are some good opportunities, it just takes a little time to find people who can focus on an goal and work to complete that goal.

What I find most of the time is that there are a lot of people who want to do a Joint Venture but few that want to actually do any work...

If your not willing to do any work how can you expect to make any money?

That would seem to be the most logical thing in the world, yet about half the time, you find people that are so distracted by every email that lands in their email box that they are often incapable of following through to the conclusion of a project.

Just imagine if you can do something really well and you team up with someone else that is also motivated to work you could get twice as much work done....

That is what a joint venture is all about, working together to obtain goals that you may not be able to do on your own.

What many people in the IM/MMO market call a "joint venture" is often just a glorified affiliate deal. Maybe two affiliate deals in opposite directions if you play the 'you promote me and I'll promote you' type of trade.

If that type of trade is your whole notion of joint venturing, you're missing a lot of opportunities. Here are a few things you can ask yourself when you think about approaching a a potential partner.

> How can I add value to what they are already doing in a way that we both benefit? For example, can I fill in a gap with a bonus product?

> How can I help them take advantage of opportunities they may be missing? For example, can I offer them a chance to make money from an opt-in confirmation page, thank you page, even an unsubscribe page by offering my product or opt-in incentive?

There's a whole world of potentially profitable ways two people can work together beyond the endorsed mailing for commission model...

I think JVing in IM niche is more prevalent because people tend to care less about a list of people looking to get rich quick and get payed on autopilot. Most of the IM lists I see are full of the same wam bam thank you mam e-mail addresses.

I have had lots of success reaching out to others in my "niches" and like mentioned above work to help one another reach what ever goals we set.