Single vs Double optin - what's your word?

by Kal B
88 replies
What do you use? Single or Double optin?

I personally just started moving away from double optin, purely to cut out the extra step of confirming the subscription. I understand that there are pros and cons of both single and double optin, but let me know what do you think?

Is single optin safe to use? Have you had any major issues with it ie complaints or loss of lists?
#double #optin #single #word
  • Profile picture of the author Dann Vicker
    I have actually had to delete thousands of emails of subscribers who failed to confirm their emails, and now I have solely adopted the single opt-in route. Moreover, I have noticed a more steady increase in subscription numbers.

    The argument actually is that double-opt in is there to protect the autoresponder company, while single opt-in though more profitable is prone to a higher risk of spam complaints. However, I am yet to experience this in my own single opt-in model
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    • Profile picture of the author kunteya
      Originally Posted by Dann Vicker View Post

      I have actually had to delete thousands of emails of subscribers who failed to confirm their emails, and now I have solely adopted the single opt-in route. Moreover, I have noticed a more steady increase in subscription numbers.

      The argument actually is that double-opt in is there to protect the autoresponder company, while single opt-in though more profitable is prone to a higher risk of spam complaints. However, I am yet to experience this in my own single opt-in model
      I had similar issues with double opt-in when I started.

      I decided to move away and use single opt-ins and haven't had any issues. I had a couple of complaints from my list but I realized it was due to the quality of information I was initially providing and it was a quick fix.
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  • Profile picture of the author pizzatherapy
    I have only done double opt in.

    I wanted subscribers to raise their hand twice, to say they wanted to hear from me...

    "Do you really want to hear from me? Really?"


    Lately, I have been thinking more and more about using a simple single opt in.

    Single opt in sounds like a quicker way to build your list...
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    • Profile picture of the author Kal B
      Originally Posted by pizzatherapy View Post

      I have only done double opt in.

      I wanted subscribers to raise their hand twice, to say they wanted to hear from me...

      "Do you really want to hear from me? Really?"


      Lately, I have been thinking more and more about using a simple single opt in.

      Single opt in sounds like a quicker way to build your list...
      I do understand your point but I am not sure it is worth it. You might be right but on the end of the day you want to make it simple for them to get into your funnel. Also is there really any benefit of them telling you twice they want your stuff?

      Many of them won't jump through the second loop. Also, you probabbly still better off if you let the single optin people opt out when they had enough of you. Of course you want to avoid that
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        I strongly prefer single opt-in, for all sorts of reasons.

        The usual argument advanced in favour of confirmed opt-in (it isn't "double" opt-in: nobody opts in twice, they just confirm their email address) is that it can reduce spam complaints. Frankly, I think it's just an urban myth. The proportion of spam complaints you get depends on what you send and how you send it and the expectations of the recipients, all of which you can control. If someone's going to forget who you are, six months later, and "report spam", having confirmed their email address at the time they originally opted in isn't going to make the slightest difference.

        I find the idea that confirmed opt-in will necessarily "protect your business" just silly. That's my perspective, anyway.

        The idea that if you use confirmed opt-in, the ones who don't manage (for whichever one of a collection of varied, possible reasons) to confirm are somehow, magically "lower quality prospects" and that you're not "therefore" really losing much strikes me as equally silly: it just has no logic behind it at all. But it can be interesting, in a macabre kind of way, to see the "clutching-at-straws" attempts at logic that confirmation enthusiasts will sometimes go to, to try to defend their corner.

        Call me a skepchick, but I suspect that some of them are people who know, really, because of what they're sending out, that whatever they do, they're going to get some complaints, and they just want to try to be better-placed in the inevitable subsequent argument with their autoresponder companies over that, "when" it happens.

        Across 8 different niches I have 5 single opt-in and 3 confirmed opt-in lists (each also further segregated). I wish with hindsight that I'd built 7 single opt-in lists and only 1 confirmed opt-in list.

        Just my perspective.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kal B
          Alexa, I fully agree with you and I am yet to hear a strong point why NOT to use single optin
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        • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          I strongly prefer single opt-in, for all sorts of reasons.

          The usual argument advanced in favour of confirmed opt-in (it isn't "double" opt-in: nobody opts in twice, they just confirm their email address) is that it can reduce spam complaints. Frankly, I think it's just an urban myth. The proportion of spam complaints you get depends on what you send and how you send it and the expectations of the recipients, all of which you can control. If someone's going to forget who you are, six months later, and "report spam", having confirmed their email address at the time they originally opted in isn't going to make the slightest difference.

          I find the idea that confirmed opt-in will necessarily "protect your business" just silly. That's my perspective, anyway.
          I always enjoy your perspective Alexa and I do think this is something we can continue to discuss. In fact, there's no stopping that discussion. It's constantly a hot topic among ESPs and I expect I will see it come up at next week's MarketingSherpa Email Summit in Vegas.

          DOI probably won't help improve a subscriber's memory and prevent them from forgetting you. Of course I do think it's fair to point out that studies have found it reduces bounce rates - not hard to make a correlation to that when you think about it. As a borderline dyslexic, this makes sense to me

          As for those who may forget to complete the confirmation...that can be tricky when you think about it. If there was no confirmation, did the owner of that address actually subscribe in the first place? Assuming they did, you could elect to send them a reminder with an incentive and invite them to confirm. I'd certainly do that before just adding them to the list.

          Regards,
          jim
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    • Profile picture of the author shazshaz
      Originally Posted by pizzatherapy View Post

      I have only done double opt in.

      I wanted subscribers to raise their hand twice, to say they wanted to hear from me...

      "Do you really want to hear from me? Really?"


      Lately, I have been thinking more and more about using a simple single opt in.

      Single opt in sounds like a quicker way to build your list...
      as long as you have a way to manage the bouncing emails, you can use the single optin,
      your source of traffic is as important :adwords, emails and social-networks provide different results
      my experience is that social-network provide more fake emails, again you have to test by yourself and have some reliable tracking in place

      icontact is a good provider if you want to test single optin
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulyC
    Who do you guys use for the single (or unconfirmed opt-in) process? I thought the big auto responders were all double opt-in?

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author Kal B
      Originally Posted by PaulyC View Post

      Who do you guys use for the single (or unconfirmed opt-in) process? I thought the big auto responders were all double opt-in?

      Thanks
      Well.... you been wrong. You can do single optin with Aweber too.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kal B
        In Aweber on the my listings tab on the confirmation email there is a switch to turn of the double optin.

        This is all good and then you go and start testing and it's gonna drive you nuts when you still receive the confirmation message.

        And here is the key: you will be getting the confirm email if you keep opting in from the same IP!!! It is a safety feature of Aweber.

        I use my mobile with dynamic IP for testing, it works like dream.

        ps. dont bother with proxies, they will fail
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        • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
          Originally Posted by Kal B View Post

          In Aweber on the my listings tab on the confirmation email there is a switch to turn of the double optin.

          This is all good and then you go and start testing and it's gonna drive you nuts when you still receive the confirmation message.

          And here is the key: you will be getting the confirm email if you keep opting in from the same IP!!! It is a safety feature of Aweber.

          I use my mobile with dynamic IP for testing, it works like dream.

          ps. dont bother with proxies, they will fail
          Thank you. I didn't know that aweber allowed single opt in.

          So the confirmation is only for you when you are testing once you go to single, it doesn't still come up for the subscribers, correct?
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      • Profile picture of the author Joseph G Spiteri
        In Aweber you can choose to either have single or confirmed optin.
        Alexa makes a good point i think I'm going to start testing single optins.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by PaulyC View Post

      Who do you guys use for the single (or unconfirmed opt-in) process? I thought the big auto responders were all double opt-in?
      I use Aweber, but GetResponse (which would be my second choice) also offers single opt-in.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    I have always used double opt in because aweber strongly recommended it and I thought it protected me. However, now that I know aweber allows single opt in and after reading all the comments here, I will try it.

    I suppose I can always change it back it anything bad happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    BTW, do any of you have any suggestions of what to do with the people who signed up and did not confirm.

    Just forget them or is there something else you would do?
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    • Profile picture of the author Kal B
      Originally Posted by TopKat22 View Post

      BTW, do any of you have any suggestions of what to do with the people who signed up and did not confirm.

      Just forget them or is there something else you would do?
      This is the beauty of it: They DO NOT confirm!! They press submit on your optin and they in!

      They will not receive any confirm, they go staright to your first follow up. However let me emphasize it; if you messing about from the same IP you will get confirm so bear this in mind for testing.

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  • Profile picture of the author ELK
    Alright, I bit the bullet. I clicked the "confirm" button off on my Aweber list settings. I have had several people lately miss their confirmation email, for whatever reason. And I'd just like to get them on my list! I will double check my initial email to make sure it spells everything out (especially the choice to opt OUT) very clearly and all the other expectations (I like the way Alexa put that in another thread).

    Guess we'll see fairly soon if this causes any problems.
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    • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
      Originally Posted by ELK View Post

      Alright, I bit the bullet. I clicked the "confirm" button off on my Aweber list settings. I have had several people lately miss their confirmation email, for whatever reason. And I'd just like to get them on my list! I will double check my initial email to make sure it spells everything out (especially the choice to opt OUT) very clearly and all the other expectations (I like the way Alexa put that in another thread).

      Guess we'll see fairly soon if this causes any problems.

      For some reason I got it into my head that with Awber once we select double optin for a particular list we could not change to single optin.

      And if we set up a list as single optin to begin with we can change that to double.

      What has happend when anyone here changed a double optin list to single at Aweber?

      Inquiring mind wants to know.

      :-Don
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      • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
        Originally Posted by Don Schenk View Post

        For some reason I got it into my head that with Awber once we select double optin for a particular list we could not change to single optin.

        And if we set up a list as single optin to begin with we can change that to double.

        What has happend when anyone here changed a double optin list to single at Aweber?

        Inquiring mind wants to know.

        :-Don
        I changed all my lists yesterday to single in aweber and the sign ups get the first email immediately now. It seems to be working fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author TiffLee
    I just switched to single optin last week.

    ... I was sick and tired of having more "unconfirmed" subscribers than fully-subscribed people on my list.

    In only two weeks time, I cannot believe the vast shift in numbers (that is, the amount of people I have on my list now). And, perhaps even better, my complaint rate has not increased at all (it still remains at 0.0%).

    Count me in for the "single optin camp."
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  • Profile picture of the author ELK
    @TiffLee

    Good, I'm encouraged! Hoping for a similar outcome myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author JimDucharme
    I'll be interviewing the experts at the MarketingSherpa email summit next week. We're asking people to submit questions for me to ask via our blog. We'll be posting those videos at our site next week. I'll do my best to remember to ask this question too for you all.

    Regards,
    jim
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    • Profile picture of the author MrMaxx357
      I was taught to use double opt-in, so its what I've always done....kinda like how we live...LOL!! But I've considered switching to single opt-in. I've always heard that double opt-in creates a more "legit" lists, but what's the difference if the subscriber only says "Yes" once? I know that when I subscribe to something that a lot of times I don't like to agree twice, but I've always done it that way on the biz end.....Maybe I'll switch, cause I haven't heard anything bad about doing it that way either...
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  • Profile picture of the author Entrecon
    It is been a while since I used Aweber, but unless they changed it, turning the double opt-in off was easy, but it wasn't obvious. When you are on the set-up page you had to hover over where the opt-in was and you could click on it to turn it off.

    The biggest complaint I have heard about double opt-in is that you have someone that is all set to buy or get your information and you give them a chance to cool off while they wait for a confirmation e-mail that might be delayed or get caught up in a spam filter.
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  • Profile picture of the author JeremiahSay
    I should say it depend on situations.. If you promoting a typical squeeze page like what most IMer does (that offers FREE gifts) then I think it's best to go for single opt-in for many reasons like what Alexa has shared above..

    However, on the other hand if you want to deliver a product (which cost $$, not FREE gift) to your buyers via auto-responders like Aweber or GetResponse then I think it's better to have a Double opt-in isn't it? <--- Within the "thank you" page

    Correct me if I'm wrong everyone,

    Jeremiah
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    • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
      Originally Posted by Entrecon View Post

      It is been a while since I used Aweber, but unless they changed it, turning the double opt-in off was easy, but it wasn't obvious. When you are on the set-up page you had to hover over where the opt-in was and you could click on it to turn it off.

      The biggest complaint I have heard about double opt-in is that you have someone that is all set to buy or get your information and you give them a chance to cool off while they wait for a confirmation e-mail that might be delayed or get caught up in a spam filter.
      You are correct, it wasn't easy to find on aweber but it was just a one click and then confirm (of course they warned you not to do it).

      However, now that I have done it, so far, I'm glad. Yesterday, I happen to have a huge 10 times traffic jump and having the single opt in got things to my new subscribers very quickly. Thanks for all the great advice.

      Originally Posted by JeremiahSay View Post

      I should say it depend on situations.. If you promoting a typical squeeze page like what most IMer does (that offers FREE gifts) then I think it's best to go for single opt-in for many reasons like what Alexa has shared above..

      However, on the other hand if you want to deliver a product (which cost $$, not FREE gift) to your buyers via auto-responders like Aweber or GetResponse then I think it's better to have a Double opt-in isn't it? <--- Within the "thank you" page

      Correct me if I'm wrong everyone,

      Jeremiah
      I don't know if you are right or wrong. I was using double opt in. Changed it to single opt in and will see. So far, so good.
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  • Profile picture of the author littledan
    I have always used double opt in apart from a brief two week period where I trialed single opt in. It was a disaster! My bounce rate went through the roof, for the whole trial period. As soon as I went back to double opt in my bounce rate dropped back down to normal. Incidentally I did not have any extra subscribers during that 2 weeks than I would have done with double opt in.

    In my experience double opt in is far better, and definitely builds a stronger list. I know this goes against many of the comments but you can only base you views on what you experience through testing.
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  • Profile picture of the author richrowley
    I've always use double optin but single is certainly worth checking out.
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  • Profile picture of the author chrisjenva
    I prefer to do single optin myself. I find to many people miss the confirmation email. I've tried both ways and the amount of complaints did not go up when switching to single optin. Even if you have double optin you will still get complaints as some people for whatever reason don't see or don't want to click the link to unsubscribe.
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  • Yea I've also moved to single! Much, much better! It's amazing how many people opt-in and never confirm the subscription.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    The only real downside to a single opt-in, is it can be abused by your competitor or disgruntled customer. They could sign up lots of random people's email addresses to your list, then many of those people would file spam complaints. Chances are that'll never happen, but it should be kept in mind.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
      Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel View Post

      The only real downside to a single opt-in, is it can be abused by your competitor or disgruntled customer. They could sign up lots of random people's email addresses to your list, then many of those people would file spam complaints. Chances are that'll never happen, but it should be kept in mind.
      I'm comforted to realize I'm not the only security minded marketer.

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  • Profile picture of the author marco005
    Hi,

    My 5 cent noob questions about opt in:
    gwa is a free wordpress autoresponder is it worth?

    Is it not against law to use single opt in instead of double opt in ( subscriber must confirm)?

    best wishes
    marco005
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      Share what is important, please.

      Have your profits improved in line with all the extra subscribers?

      Who wants to pay for more people on your list if they ain't splashing the cash.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by marco005 View Post

        Is it not against law to use single opt in instead of double opt in ( subscriber must confirm)?
        No.

        You have to include an "unsubscribe" link, and so on, but all these regulations apply equally to single opt-in and confirmed opt-in.

        Originally Posted by fin View Post

        Who wants to pay for more people on your list if they ain't splashing the cash.
        As far as I'm aware, nobody is seriously suggesting that single opt-in subscribers are less likely subsequently to buy than confirmed opt-in subscribers: that would certainly be a rather remarkable assertion, wouldn't it? Call me a skepchick, but I'd be pretty hard put to come by a rational explanation for the act of confirming their email address increasing the chances of any individual's future purchases.
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        • Profile picture of the author fin
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


          As far as I'm aware, nobody is seriously suggesting that single opt-in subscribers are less likely subsequently to buy than confirmed opt-in subscribers: that would certainly be a rather remarkable assertion, wouldn't it? Call me a skepchick, but I'd be pretty hard put to come by a rational explanation for the act of confirming their email address increasing the chances of any individual's future purchases.
          I'm not after guesses.

          I was wanting to know if anyone who has changed from double to single has noticed an increase in earnings.

          If anyone would be kind enough to share, I'd appreciate it.

          Cheers
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by fin View Post

            I was wanting to know if anyone who has changed from double to single has noticed an increase in earnings.
            As a split-test, you mean? In which that was the only parameter in a process otherwise identical in its traffic source, traffic-gathering technicques, opt-in page, outgoing autoresponder series, and so on? (You must mean that, I suppose - how else could it be proved?).

            Not I. Like many here, I've done better, in a range of niches, using single opt-in than I used to originally when I used confirmed opt-in for everything, but that's simply because I haven't been losing my former proportion during the confirmation-process. I have no figures which can prove to anyone, conclusively, that the increase in income is a direct result of that. Some things I don't test specifically because I consider them self-evident and am happy enough that I understand the reason for them.
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            • Profile picture of the author fin
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              As a split-test, you mean? In which that was the only parameter in a process otherwise identical in its traffic source, traffic-gathering technicques, opt-in page, outgoing autoresponder series, and so on? (You must mean that, I suppose - how else could it be proved?).

              Not I. Like many here, I've done better, in a range of niches, using single opt-in than I used to originally when I used confirmed opt-in for everything, but that's simply because I haven't been losing my former proportion during the confirmation-process. I have no figures which can prove to anyone, conclusively, that the increase in income is a direct result of that. Some things I don't test specifically because I consider them self-evident and am happy enough that I understand the reason for them.
              I was talking about the people in this thread who decided to start using single opt-in.

              I was wondering if they noticed an increase in earnings since doing so.
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Originally Posted by fin View Post

                I was talking about the people in this thread who decided to start using single opt-in.

                I was wondering if they noticed an increase in earnings since doing so.
                I have, anyway.
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                • Profile picture of the author fin
                  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                  I have, anyway.
                  Cheers.

                  I didn't realize you had swapped them about.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by fin View Post

                    Cheers.

                    I didn't realize you had swapped them about.
                    Sorry ...

                    I was long-winded and less helpful than I intended, above. I now use single opt-in for all but one of my niches.

                    If I were in the "IM" or "MMO" markets, I probably would want to use confirmed opt-in for those, and would just go to all lengths possible to avoid losing people in the confirmation process, by giving them as much information and explanation as possible. (I suspect that in those markets most of those opting in are far more familiar with "confirming their email address" anyway).
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                    • Profile picture of the author comodo427
                      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

                      Sorry ...

                      I was long-winded and less helpful than I intended, above. I now use single opt-in for all but one of my niches.

                      If I were in the "IM" or "MMO" markets, I probably would want to use confirmed opt-in for those, and would just go to all lengths possible to avoid losing people in the confirmation process, by giving them as much information and explanation as possible. (I suspect that in those markets most of those opting in are far more familiar with "confirming their email address" anyway).
                      You would assume that they would be more likely to confirm their email but I can assure you that isn't the case.

                      I sent a solo ad and got 44 optins but only 6 people confirmed.
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                      • Profile picture of the author shazshaz
                        Originally Posted by comodo427 View Post

                        You would assume that they would be more likely to confirm their email but I can assure you that isn't the case.

                        I sent a solo ad and got 44 optins but only 6 people confirmed.
                        you should go and join some Jeff Walker list, and see how he sell the double optin, he do a great job. I use it as a model for double optin.

                        something people don't do, is to test their confirmation message with different provider, and be sure he doesn't end in the spam folder with a yahoo/gmail/hotmail account
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          • Profile picture of the author myob
            In the past, I found double optin has reduced lists by an average 37% through non-confirming attrition. Since all of my subscribers are incentivized only after making a purchase, requiring them to confirm in this manner is placing them through hoops unnecessarily, which intuitively means a significant negative impact on future earnings.
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      • Profile picture of the author RizNicolas
        Originally Posted by fin View Post

        Who wants to pay for more people on your list if they ain't splashing the cash.
        I just scrub my list about once a month to remove subscribers who have not opened any of my emails for the last 3 or 4 months. Doing this with single opt-in works for me, and keeps the autoresponder bill down.
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    • Profile picture of the author igorGriffiths
      I have started using single optin on the advice of my mentors and the one word of caution I would give to anyone doing this would be to ensure you do not have a disconnect between the optin form, the gift and the first few emails.

      These should all be on related subjects and not make your new subscriber feel like a cash cow otherwise you will get the spam complaints.
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  • Profile picture of the author RizNicolas
    Single opt-in squeeze page... where they have to check their email to get the download link for the free gift they were opting in for.
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  • Profile picture of the author damasgate
    Double opt-in is solely for the protection of Aweber.

    Single opt-ins all the way. The key is knowing how to market to them by actually providing value.
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  • I cannot tell you how grateful I am for this thread and the wisdom you've all shared. I HAD NO IDEA you could do single opt-in with Aweber nor that it would be that easy and that effective. I would have double the list size I currently do had known earlier!!!! And god knows how many thousands more in sales.

    THANK YOU! THANK YOU!!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author John Racine
    Originally Posted by Kal B View Post

    What do you use? Single or Double optin?

    I personally just started moving away from double optin, purely to cut out the extra step of confirming the subscription. I understand that there are pros and cons of both single and double optin, but let me know what do you think?

    Is single optin safe to use? Have you had any major issues with it ie complaints or loss of lists?
    Hey Kal,

    I have that debate with myself every so often. Lately, I have been using single on buyers and double for freebie optins, though I don't have much in free optins any more.

    I have not had any issues, but there is always inherent risk.

    My $.02 any way. :-)

    John
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  • Some people swear by single opt-in because they say they get more subscribers, but I would not recommend that at all. I only use double opt-in. Otherwise you will probably get lots of spam complaints, and you don't need that. I would rather have quality over quantity.
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  • Profile picture of the author KevinW
    I use 100+ squeeze pages. All of them single optin. Sending regular emails with content that applies to the content/offer/message of your squeeze page reduces spam complaints.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tadresources
      I'm going to agree with everyone else and say that single opt-in is the way to go. Though if you ask any spam fighter they will disagree, so the possibility for spam complaints will always be there, however small it might be.
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        It depends upon the market and the specific list you're
        building.

        I decide on a list-by-list basis.

        With some lists I go with single opt-in - e.g. a buyer
        list built via my own shopping cart with an automatic
        PayPal payment.

        (In this case, I know that the e-mail address is valid
        because it's come from PayPal so there's no need to
        confirm IMO).

        For other lists, I'll choose confirmed opt-in (a.k.a. double
        opt-in) - e.g. a subscriber list of people who opt-in for a
        freebie.

        If you're getting a low confirmation rate for your double
        opt-in process, then it's usually down to having a poor
        offer and/or poor copy.

        And remember - single opt-in servers have LOWER
        deliverability than double opt-in servers because they
        have more dud e-mail addresses, higher bounces and
        more spam complaints.

        Dedicate to mutual success,

        Shaun
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    • Profile picture of the author atvking
      The problem with single opt is is that you leave yourself wide open for attacks form the competition. Anybody can see that single opt in is easier, therefore you will get more subscribers, but the second opt in gives you protection against competitors subrscribing to your list every day with a new e-mail account and then reporting spam later. While he can still click "spam" with the double opt in, you at least have a case with your e-mail/hosting company if any trouble should arise + you followed their guidelines.

      This and the fact that every IP address that sends out e-mail has "reputation" and "deliverability" that can seriously be damaged by competitors...

      Also how interested are they really if they are too lazy to confirm their e-mail address? Just applying common sense here, if I was too lazy to confirm my e-mail for something then there is not much chance of these guys ever selling me anything....
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  • Profile picture of the author Velant
    definetely double - single will give you high unsubscribe rate and lots of complaints. Plus most established autoresponders such as aweber only support double optin, so in most cases it really is beyond your choice anyway.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Velant View Post

      definetely double - single will give you high unsubscribe rate and lots of complaints.
      Not my experience at all.

      Originally Posted by Velant View Post

      Plus most established autoresponders such as aweber only support double optin.
      This is just wrong. As discussed extensively above. I (and others posting above) have many single opt-in lists at Aweber. Sometimes it helps to read the thread before replying - just a suggestion!
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  • Profile picture of the author marco005
    Hi,

    thanks all for your tips.
    I have found for wordpress the opt in form adder plugin and wp- responder email plugin,
    and hope these plugins will work.

    best wishes
    marco005
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    single optin is absolutely fine to use in the right circumstances

    for instances when i build my lists a lot of the time i use a one time offer so you will need to turn your confirmed opt in off

    yes you may still get a few people enter bogus emails but they will still see your OTO and still could purchase. also the sales you make on the front end will always out way
    the few people that end up entering bogus email addresses

    of course when you sell a product most of the time you will need to use a double opt in on the download page because you want your buyers to def confirm

    paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Des Lau
    Single all the way babay.

    oh, yeah single opt-in too O.o
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  • Profile picture of the author ChloeCKimberley
    Uhh..

    If you're a cheapskate, you'll go for double opt-in. My reason is because you don't want to exceed a list limit of subscribers and hence you want only the prospects who are hardworking enough to go over to their email provider account and click "verify".

    On a more logical approach... I feel that you need to just go with Single Optin.

    Who knows how many people you'll lose? (Those that forget, are busy or are just plain lazy to click the "verify")
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  • Profile picture of the author Noel Cunningham
    Double every day of the week mate - single is attractive but you will get a lot of spam complaints and although your list would appear bigger it'll be less responsive and full of spam/freebie seekers with fake email addresses.

    Can't fail with the double optin
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  • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
    Interesting.

    Always thought double opt in was safer but after this I'm going to test single opt in instead.
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  • Profile picture of the author stuff2
    I have notice a lot of single opt in lately. Look like there are having no problems
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  • Profile picture of the author jdooley13
    So, if you are in the IM niche (and offering a freebie for the email address), would you go with the single opt in or the double opt in?

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by jdooley13 View Post

      So, if you are in the IM niche (and offering a freebie for the email address), would you go with the single opt in or the double opt in?
      As the strongest advocate of single opt-in in this thread (perhaps), I freely admit that if I were in the IM niche, I would unquestionably use confirmed opt-in, myself. If your customers are themselves internet marketers, the normal difficulties you have over people not confirming their opt-in shouldn't apply to anything like the same extent, so you stand to lose far less.

      Originally Posted by fin View Post

      I figured, if someone is too stupid to confirm their opt-in, they are probably too stupid to go through the whole payment processor and actually buy something.
      I just don't agree with this at all!
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Depending on the price of your product... you might just be better off leading them to your sales letter page.
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  • Profile picture of the author TopKat22
    I have changed all my lists to single opt in.
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    • Profile picture of the author SteveSki
      Can someone explain what the trick is to being able to turn the Confirm Opt-in off in aweber? I read aweber's instructions on how to do it but that doesn't work. Here's a screen shot of their instructions: http://screencast.com/t/rAwuPeDOR39T

      Following those instruction I only get what you see here: http://screencast.com/t/mkKo9aDHy

      They tell you they recommend you leave it set to confirm opt-in but in the next sentence they say that confirm opt-in is required for all subscribers.

      How are you guy's getting away with turning it off?
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      • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
        Originally Posted by SteveSki View Post

        How are you guy's getting away with turning it off?
        It depends upon your list and account.

        Most people see the following option when FIRST setting-up
        a new list:



        I click on the OFF section if I want to turn-off the
        confirmed opt-in.

        However, you must do this with a NEW list when you
        first set it up.

        If you have already started building a list via confirmed
        opt-in within AWeber and have some subscribers added
        you can't switch that list over to single opt-in later on.

        You should be able to set-up a new list and switch off
        confirmed opt-in.

        (Unless your account has further restrictions, e.g. you
        already have an excessively high spam complaint rate).

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
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  • Profile picture of the author ClearSolution
    double optin has its merits, especially for things like adswaps.
    Say what you will, but lots of those subscribers get ungodly amounts of emails everyday just because they wanted "Free" stuff, the last thing you want is for a guy who's signed up to 50 marketers and is getting fed up with the emails only to than make a spam complaint.
    having lots of emails is good, but have a better quality of collected emails is better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dee Syed
    Double optin-for me every time! I'd much rather have a list of 500 dedicated, serious subscribers than 5000 email IDs from non-committed people and bots
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  • Single, because anything that requires double lowers your engagement ratio drastically, unless it's the law, I only do single.
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  • Profile picture of the author Saul
    ugh... so much guesswork in this thread!

    double optin is definitely safer (and therefore, in my opinion, way better).

    Here are the two main reasons why:
    - people must use a real email address
    - if you receive a spam complaint you can defend yourself

    Does it cost more? Sure it does (in terms of less subs) but it's *safer*. It's a risk/reward choice, nothing more.

    Double optin is not a benefit for the users and I don't see why anyone would use that as an argument (that single optin is obvisouly easier for the subscriber and therefore better than double optin). Double optin is a benefit for the list owner and he/she alone. It has nothing to do with the subscribers being more prone to buy, or being of a better quality etc.

    Also, for as long as you don't get accused of spamming, single optin is fine and dandy... but what happens when your service provider blocks your access to the service because they're investigating the spam complaint and you have NOTHING to prove you weren't spamming? I've heard more than one horror story... I don't know if authorities still go heavy on "punishing" suspected spammers like they used to a while ago, but I'm still pretty sure they don't treat them kindly in any case.

    Double optin is an iron-clad defence against spam complaints. And against people who use junk email address when subscribing to stuff they're not sure about (like I do and like you should too).

    Personally, if I had to have a list, I would rather have a smaller list of real people as well as having a solid defence against trolly competitors and outright morons who forgot they actually subscribed.

    If instead you like having lists inflated with junk email addresses (which in turn means a mathematically lower conversion rate) and being exposed to spam complaints, sure, go ahead and use single optin, chances are nothing bad will happen and you'll be just fine. Except when something bad happens: risk/reard choice, nothing more than that ;-)

    ...My favorite solution to this dilemma? Go RSS

    ciao!
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  • Profile picture of the author Bridget10
    I know this is an old posting but it just help me with
    an important decision regarding Double or Single opt-in.
    thanks
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  • Profile picture of the author Moneymaker2012
    Double opt in is better than single opt in.
    subscribers that double opt in to your list are your true subscribers, and there is another benefit of it, that your emails won't get into their spam folders but they will appear straight into their inboxes.
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  • Profile picture of the author tanbanners
    I have test mine and I received 30% more optins with the single.
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  • Profile picture of the author JaredRhodenizer
    I started out doing double opt-in... big mistake in my opinion.

    Most of the people don't ever confirm and it's extremely annoying.

    I use GetResponse and always do single opt-in now.

    It's like Alexa said, as long as you tell your audience up front what to expect from you, your spam complaints won't be high.

    But you've also got to realize that most people are really stupid and would complain even if they did "double opt-in".
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  • Profile picture of the author smith5
    Single optin - No double checking, once you have submitted the email that is single optin.
    Double optin - you have to confirm the email by clicking the link.

    Triple optin - Classify the double optin list based on the preferences ...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dream8
    I have never used double opt-in. Why have the person have to go through extra hoops. You may be losing heaps of leads
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior X
    Here's how I do it (and I don't really see any downsides to this.)

    Single opt-in -> some sort of protected download page (to stop people from using throw away email addresses) -> remove people from your list who don't open your emails.

    Best of all worlds.
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  • Profile picture of the author MickK
    It's not about how many emails you send, it's about how many are read. Someone who takes the time to confirm an email address, wants to hear from you.

    Gmail, Outlook, AOL know if the emails that you send are opened by their users. If your email doesn't get opened, where do think the next one ends up?

    I'd be interested to hear what the deliverability rates people who are preaching single optin are like compared to double optin.

    Most autoresponder fee's are based on your number of subscribers, so you need to ask yourself why wouldn't they be recommending single optin and charging their customers more if it didn't matter?

    Cheers,

    Mick
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    • Profile picture of the author AlisonM
      Would you prefer a "bird in the hand, or two in the bush?"

      One scenario I see single optins as being beneficial, is if you are buying solo ads.

      If you insist on a double opt in you will lose a percentage of those who clicked through, which means you will end up paying a higher price for each opt-in that you can use.

      Kind regards
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  • Profile picture of the author Alex Mensah
    Originally Posted by Kal B View Post

    What do you use? Single or Double optin?

    I personally just started moving away from double optin, purely to cut out the extra step of confirming the subscription. I understand that there are pros and cons of both single and double optin, but let me know what do you think?

    Is single optin safe to use? Have you had any major issues with it ie complaints or loss of lists?
    Single bro, never had any complaints just make sure you are not sneaky pushing the unsubscribe link all the way down so the recipient cannot see it to click on it because you will get complaints if you do that.
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  • Profile picture of the author anwiii
    in my opinion, the reason why this is will always be a debate is because of threads like this which give the ability for anyone to reply with general answers to the way they market and what results they are looking for.

    the fact is, double opt in can be more effecient than single and single can be more efficient than double. there are many factors that go in to answering a question like this. the main general one is how one markets to their potential list.

    some lists are better suited for single opt in and some are better suited for double. a good example that i read is that some people impliment both techniques based what their potential subscriber does. if they buy something, no doubt there is no need for a double opt in and they move directly to your buyers list. if they don't buy anything, then you have to test to find out which is more effective. since everyone's marketing techniques will be different, this is a variable which can influence which optin strategy will be most effective.

    i try to stay away from anyone telling me single is best or the same as double and i try to stay away from people saying that double is best or the same as single. maybe for their OWN marketing model this can be true, but when posting and giving advice to others who may be marketing differently, this is just plain ignorance and subjective in my opinion.

    another key factor and variable to what is best is experience one will never know what works best for THEM until they test and gain that experience that can only work for THEM.
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