Take Your Business Offline! A Little True Story

15 years ago

Yeah, actually, recently, my father has left his job and began working on his own company full-time. It's been a registered company of his for about a decade now, and he's developed for some top sites on the web, so with Vancouver coming in for the Olympics, the development jobs he gets are insane money for minimal work.

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chrisnegro 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Vadym

I've been doing this for a while, and it's like taking money from a 34-year-old, desk job depressed baby.

Nice...Vadym...nice !

Chris Negro
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chrisnegro

15 years ago

Just another example...of how much value we bring to brick and morter businesses....thanks for sharing TG !

Chris Negro

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krishananda

15 years ago

That's a true story indeed, many companies in my area also do the same, pay thousands of dollars for "wonderful" sites and just leave them be without knowing the power of internet marketing.

Most are just doing it for prestige, shamed to have emails from free gmail or yahoo.
Only hoping people would notice their sites only from their business cards, etc.

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jan roos 15 years ago

I had a phone call last week from a guy who used to work for a well known and very successful web design company here where I live. He said he has heard of me and wanted to have a chat. He then told me that he left this company because they were very unethical and was over charging clients. He also said that they treat their clients like dog shyt too.

I said what do mean by over charging? He then showed me a website they designed for a small shop that makes fudge. They quoted the shop 18K for the website at first then they talked them down to 12K, which the shop owner paid for. I looked at the site and it was nice but had no SEO done to it, no lead capture mechanism and was basically useless.

12K for a freaken Fudge shop website with no SEO or anything!!! Are you serious I said.

The guy said yeah and thats not even the worst of them all.

Right there and then I realized that my work is very very valuable and that i'm actually underselling myself.

My advice is to go out there and make a difference.

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- AndrewCavanagh 15 years ago
  
  If they paid 600 pounds and 700 pounds for a website that does nothing they got off cheap.
  
  Many small businesses are being stung for $5,000 to $15,000+ for websites that do little or nothing to sell their products and services.
  
  You should understand though that this isn't just confined to web design.
  
  Business owners are also paying out money for advertising that does little or nothing and quite possibly a whole pile of other services too.
  
  If you become a genuine rainmaker for small businesses...using your skills to help them make real sales and profits, you'll be doing them a fantastic service and you'll be able to charge substantial fees for yourself.
  
  Kindest regards,
  Andrew Cavanagh
  
  Thanks
  
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bat55w

15 years ago

I have to say, you should be careful criticizing how much people are charging for their work. Frankly, $1000 for a website is not that unreasonable, $12,000, well ok but he got paid didn't he?? What this says is that there is a market out there for this kind of money. If you do a really good job, as suggested, wouldn't you want to be paid well for it? Also, I would guess that most web page designers/programmers don't have much clue about SEO because they are not marketers. So if you can do both, get out there and make some good money!

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Philomina

15 years ago

Thanks Teenage Genius for the great tip.

Please can you tell me of the offline businesses
that are most likely to use the internet to market
their products or services.

Thanks for your help.

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BlueJam

15 years ago

I like your attitude, the only problem that you might have is convincing a business that you can do a better job than the other guy. Being only 18 this might be a problem, don't be put off if you get a couple of knock backs, and good luck!

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jimbo3891

15 years ago

Originally Posted by BlueJam

I like your attitude, the only problem that you might have is convincing a business that you can do a better job than the other guy. Being only 18 this might be a problem, don't be put off if you get a couple of knock backs, and good luck!

"Kicked" because he's only 18?????

Shoot, he's almost too old to be doing this. Everyone over the age of 40 knows that if they want to program their VCR, install some computer software, add applications to their cell phones, etc. they go get their teenage son/daughter to do it for them. My degree is in computers, but sometimes I still ask my teenage daughter to do it for me. Why? Because she enjoys the challenge, she's sometimes faster than I am, and I'm training her to be able to work with me.

Most offline business owners are savvy enough to realize that younger is better when it comes to computers. Keep up the great work Teenage Genius. I'd saddle up beside you on any venture and would love to have you out there in the foreground working with me. Someone would be lucky to hire your for $1,000, $2,000, or even $5,000. You are probably more creative than "trained" people anyway.

My daughter is interested in photography as a profession. Several excellent pro's have warned her against formal training because they tell her it will ruin her creativity. Why? Because all the rules of photography may keep her from snapping a picture that could turn out to be an award winning shot. They all tell her to just "shut up and shoot".

Great post Teenage Genius.

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krishananda 15 years ago

Originally Posted by jimbo3891

"Kicked" because he's only 18?????

Shoot, he's almost too old to be doing this.

LOL you got that right, but when you take this business offline at least what you need to do is dress up professionally and show them you know your business.

You know there are still people look down on age and appearance.
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- BlueJam 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by krishananda
  
  You know there are still people look down on age and appearance.
  
  Yep, that was the point I was trying to make, not that he wouldn't actually be as good as the competition, or better.
  
  Thanks
  
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GoGetta

15 years ago

Yes Andrews right here!

I have just picked up a new client only yesterday that has spent over $7,000 on a static site! Not only that, when I spoke about autoresponders, she knew what they were and wanted one but was told by here so called "Web Guys" that it would be extremely expensive. I was quick to show here Aweber! ; )

Not only that after speaking to me over the phone for all of 10 mins she even branded her "Web Guys" RETARDS!! hahaha! Well I wasn't going to say it. Needless to say I recieved 4 calls that day from her asking for all sorts of stuff. Now the original price I quoted has risen with all the addons but she will finally get a service she deserves that will bring results!

This was one of 3 referrals I recieved this week. First week I havent cold called since I started! There is so much around right now! Bring on the credit crunch, I say!

GoGetta

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krishananda

15 years ago

Another challenge said by GoGetta, if you aim offline businesses, you'd be facing IT people of that company, which sometimes got panic when they hear someone is taking over things that they supposed to do.
They might provoke you in some ways LOL

As long as you're not being a smart ass in front of them and praise what they've done so far, you'd be doing okay.

It's not a surprise a web site could cost thousands of dollars or more but in the case of my country, you might have to "share" the fee with some insiders.
Or else it's a pain to get enough materials for your works.

And oh, age got nothing to do with your work, as long as you show you know what you're doing, people would appreciate it.

I'm not exactly young but I got that "you're-too-young-for-this-job" look from several of my clients but that doesn't stop me earning money from them.

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lollieamp

15 years ago

I am very shocked for those scammers who can easily charge $1000 from free templates without the business knowing that their capital is FREE. I bet if they knew where the resource came from, they would be furious, har!

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klublok

15 years ago

I had a similar experience too. When I went shopping for web designers, they were quoting me in excess of $10k to do a static site with an opt-in form and around 10 pages! They told me that they couldn't do that in less than 3 months.

A second web designer wanted to charge me $2,000 for some crappy site.

I was about to give up when I discovered elance which was better. What's more they work 6 days a week and would have my site ready in 2 weeks.

It is amazing what people can get away with.

Then again, it happens in every industry ... there are always people who would take advantage of people.

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krishananda

15 years ago

Do you know that some web engineers would charge monthly fees for their works, even some not even bother to tell the companies that their domain and hosting would expire within a year.

Sadly the companies don't know that they can hire college students to do the work (in my area) for less than 100 bucks for simple sites,

A friend of mine did a website for his province's police department for about 500 bucks, while the real budget could reach 3000 bucks, the corrupt ones in the department got the big money.

We should see this issue as an opportunity for us, we can contact the companies and make them aware of the situation.
They would surely appreciate us for giving this information and who knows, perhaps even use our services because of this.

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bobmcalister

15 years ago

can you send me my purchase or a refund ? have done the pm thing with you for a while ...thanks

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Teenage Genius 15 years ago

Originally Posted by bobmcalister

can you send me my purchase or a refund ? have done the pm thing with you for a while ...thanks

I sent you an e-mail earlier... obviously if you didn't recieve it then something cocked up somewhere - I've just this second sent it again. Please let me know that you have recieved it...

T.Genius
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Kim Standerline 15 years ago

Naughty and off topic

Kim

Originally Posted by bobmcalister

can you send me my purchase or a refund ? have done the pm thing with you for a while ...thanks
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Teenage Genius

15 years ago

Honestly guys, from what I've heard and what I've whitnessed with my own eyes, us internet marketers have enough skill and knowledge to blow 90% of "IT Professionals" out of the water!

We've just got to get out there and get them clients!

Go for it Warriors!

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jsherloc

15 years ago

I have started to explore the offline opportunities as of late and can definitely see A LOT of potential in the methods being discussed.

My concern is this though...for offline marketing you are usually going for people with high transaction rates/people or businesses with money to spend on advertising in the first place.

I have noticed in my research lately that MANY of these businesses/services have a webpage that is designed by a professional firm. The amazing thing is that some of these sites look fantastic and you can tell they probably paid a couple grand for them, yet half of them are not properly SEO'd, etc.

Now if I were to approach these businesses, and explain to them my SEO abilities, my lmarketing and link building abilities, my autoresponder management offers, etc and all the benefits...sure I might convert some.

But I would think the first thing they will do once we are through talking is contact their web design firm. Once this occurs, whats stopping the design firm from saying "oh, you don't need that from him, here we'll hook you up with our own autoresponder, this stuff is built-in, he must be scamming you, you need ours, its more expensive but we can't use a foreign script, we'll do this and streamline it with our exisiting server, blah blah".

Basically why would they give up on an earning opportunity if they are already overcharging these companies in the first place? I am sure I could undercut them, but a lot of business owners will have the trust/comfort zone with an existing firm who designed them a great looking site in the first place, regardless of seo. I just think you would lose a LOT of customers this way. Even if I spent a lot of time/money advertising the importance of seo, lead capture...who do you they are going to contact first about all this? I mean who do they HAVE to contact even if they decide they want to use your services?...The answer: Their web design company.

Chances are, most of these business owners with any kind of advertising money have already hired a web design company to manage their stuff, and these IT/design dudes are not gonna let you eat their pie.

Any insights?

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Micheal Perkins

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jsherloc

I have started to explore the offline opportunities as of late and can definitely see A LOT of potential in the methods being discussed.

My concern is this though...for offline marketing you are usually going for people with high transaction rates/people or businesses with money to spend on advertising in the first place.

I have noticed in my research lately that MANY of these businesses/services have a webpage that is designed by a professional firm. The amazing thing is that some of these sites look fantastic and you can tell they probably paid a couple grand for them, yet half of them are not properly SEO'd, etc.

Now if I were to approach these businesses, and explain to them my SEO abilities, my lmarketing and link building abilities, my autoresponder management offers, etc and all the benefits...sure I might convert some.

But I would think the first thing they will do once we are through talking is contact their web design firm. Once this occurs, whats stopping the design firm from saying "oh, you don't need that from him, here we'll hook you up with our own autoresponder, this stuff is built-in, he must be scamming you, you need ours, its more expensive but we can't use a foreign script, we'll do this and streamline it with our exisiting server, blah blah".

Basically why would they give up on an earning opportunity if they are already overcharging these companies in the first place? I am sure I could undercut them, but a lot of business owners will have the trust/comfort zone with an existing firm who designed them a great looking site in the first place, regardless of seo. I just think you would lose a LOT of customers this way. Even if I spent a lot of time/money advertising the importance of seo, lead capture...who do you they are going to contact first about all this? I mean who do they HAVE to contact even if they decide they want to use your services?...The answer: Their web design company.

Chances are, most of these business owners with any kind of advertising money have already hired a web design company to manage their stuff, and these IT/design dudes are not gonna let you eat their pie.

Any insights?

In all actuality there is nothing to keep them from it. One thing to keep in mind though, why would the business not have already offered them the service? Maybe even ask why his provider has not already offered these services to him.

If the owner says anything about talking to the provider, tell them that you encourage them to do so. Then ask them to call you back after they speak with their provider, because you can almost certainly beat their price.

Also explain that you are not a sales person who will have someone else doing the work. Explain that you are a business owner yourself (your marketing business) and will be the person the owner works with directly.

Bottom line in my opinion, based off everything I've already read on this, don't come across like you are trying to just make a buck off them. Come across as someone who wants to help them do better in business. Let them know that if you give them a suggestion that they use someone else to implement, at least their business has improved, and that is what you care about.

That approach will build a relationship, even if you don't get the sale. Then when you periodically stop in to visit with them, they will remember it. When you offer more advice, you will become a trusted ally. Also give them ideas, but don't tell them specifically how to implement them.

I haven't done any offline yet myself, I just started reading about this at the end of last week. I work a fill time job outside of IM and have been trying to build my business for a few months now. I'm off tomorrow and am going to do some work on this tomorrow.

I just haven't decided if I am going to set up an email to send out to several businesses, print a letter and mail it, or just start gong to door to door asking to talk with the manager or owner. I might try a combination, but I am leaning toward going out and walking door to door.

I did some research and found a keyword string for my area for apartments that has over 8,000 searches a month. Out of over 50 apartment complex's in my area, only 2 show in the generic Google listings. One complex, built a couple years ago for about $10 million, does not seem to even have a website. So I just found a market that is huge, where the businesses bank tens of thousands every month.

I'm pretty excited.

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Andrew Davis

15 years ago

What do you guys mean by "Take Your Business Offline!"

You mean Website building is offline Business?
as opposed to working with your own website, which is online Business?

Well I really don't discourage Teenage Genius (because of his age) from going ahead with this venture if that is his plan.

Once you have your work experience to show for it, I think companies will hire you and pay you just a well.

Just make sure that no one pushes you around when you work for them.

I'm only 20 still,
I'm a University student doing a Bachelors Degree in BioChemistry, but I took this year off to start some online business,

Just last week I built a website for a company, I got paid around $750 USD to do it, and it took me about 4-5 days of work to complete everything.
The work was very professional, and the company was very pleased.

Age really wasn't a factor for the company to do business with me.
I guess that would vary according to the country.

Anyway,
I still don't know if I agree 100% with the title of this topic...
I think it is a good idea to both run your own online business, and also make websites for companies.

I didn't see anywhere that explained why it is not profitable to do online business.

Thanks for yours story Teenage Genius,
Take care,
-Andrew

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Micheal Perkins 15 years ago

Originally Posted by EpsilonX5

What do you guys mean by "Take Your Business Offline!"

Andrew,

What is meant by this is for people with IM skills to use their skills to help real world, Brick & Mortar businesses.

Local businesses who have retail store that you do business in, not just websites where that is the only way they do business.

Businesses whose main business model is not internet marketing need services that IMers can offer.
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Andrew Davis

15 years ago

Ok thanks for explaining Micheal Perkins!

Is there any way to change your Account name in this forum by chance?

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Micheal Perkins 15 years ago

Originally Posted by EpsilonX5

Ok thanks for explaining Micheal Perkins!

Is there any way to change your Account name in this forum by chance?

Your welcome, and as far as I can tell there is no way to change your screen name. I guess you would just have to delete your current account and create a new account.

Why are you wanting to change?
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pjCheviot Banned 15 years ago

Originally Posted by EpsilonX5

Ok thanks for explaining Micheal Perkins!

Is there any way to change your Account name in this forum by chance?

Contact the HelpDesk and they can do it for you when they get a chance.

HTH
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ryanmacca

15 years ago

Damn those people got ripped off
There is definately a lot of money to be made in website creation.
I don't think I will do it this year (too nervous) but I might get into it next year.

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ryanmacca

15 years ago

Damn those people got ripped off
There is definately a lot of money to be made in website creation.
I don't think I will do it this year (too nervous) but I might get into it next year.

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a2dsilva 15 years ago

guys just be careful what you promise business owners. as the OP mentioned the orignal web designers site was Shite... you wouldn't want the next warriorforum member approaching your business owner telling them that the site you had just designed was shite... not saying that it will happen.

What I am saying is that spend the time to educate yourself as to what it will take to hit the first page of Google. Find out how to install and write a profitable email campaign. At the end all that matters is results.

As long as your site is producing results the business owner will not listen to the next webdesigner-genuis. Why? 'cos that will be too risky.

That brings me to the point - maintain your relationships. If you keep you business owners close then they will hesitate to move away from your monthly service 'cos your selling them not only the service but also 'peace-of-mind' that you are not a 'fly-by-night' startup business.

bottom line: Education, Results and Strengthen Relationships

Andy
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Joel Gray

15 years ago

I have been doing some research on the offline business market and I would say a good 70 to 80 percent of the sites that local businesses have in my area do not have a name capture system, the same percentage of sites have not been updated within the last 12 months, and around 85 percent have not had any SEO done to them. Some look much better than others and I have noticed that from time to time the "Site Produced By" link actually points to a company that does web design, but many are dead links.

Joel

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lacraiger

15 years ago

you cant really judge or knock on another company for the sites they produce. many of these guys have been doing web development for over a decade and back then there was no SEO and companies were paying higher premiums for websites.

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Take Your Business Offline! A Little True Story

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