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Four-Letter Word Decisions

by tpw
43 replies
So here is the deal.

I purchased a product this week from a very popular copy writer. As I was reading the product, I got thinking about what he had done in the copy...

I know his stand on four-letter words in copy, and I don't take issue with it myself.

He is targeting an audience that does not care if he uses four-letter words, and I am in his target audience.

Maybe it is because I am from Oklahoma, but the people I know spew four-letter words as a matter of normal conversation.

I remember one time when I was in my early 20's. I had heard a woman in the neighborhood had said that she thought I was a staunch Christian...

To be honest, I was quite blown away by the suggestion. I did not go to church, and I had not gone to church since I was young.

I asked why she would think I was such a "staunch Christian". She said that she felt that way because she never heard me curse.



I laughed, and I told her that was probably a good indication that she did not spend much time around me. :p I tend to be quiet around people I barely know, but around my friends, I talk all the time and I curse like a sailor too.

So, I really am in this particular copy writers market.

And his report got me to thinking...

I know some people freak out when they hear someone cussing...

So what I want to know is this... (I am the wrong person to answer the question...)

Who among you is willing to disregard the entire message, based on the use of a curse word in the copy?

And, how many of you would be willing to overlook the curse words in the copy, if the message is good?
#4-letter words #decisions #four-letter words #fourletter
  • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
    What the ****?

    This is some ****ing crazy **** that you'd stop listening to someone because they swear.

    Have you ever heard Gordon Ramsay?

    All joking aside when you're writing copy or information products it really is crucial you know your prospects well and there are some people who are seriously offended by any foul language.

    They are in the minority these days though.

    Kindest regards,
    Andrew Cavanagh
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    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      Not a chance I would disregard it based on that alone. Perhaps I would think, "That's a bit unconventional," but I judge the message based on what I am able to learn from it, not on how it's taught to me.

      And if it's an offer we're talking about, either the offer makes sense for me, or it doesn't. If I refused to buy anything from anyone who ever uttered a curse word, I would have to go live in the woods, wouldn't I?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tiffiney Cowan
      Originally Posted by AndrewCavanagh View Post

      What the ****?

      This is some ****ing crazy **** that you'd stop listening to someone because they swear.
      Generally speaking I don't swear and it doesn't bother me if others do. I try to hear the message and if it's interesting, of value, or truly funny (like the quote above) I keep listening.

      If the quality of the information is poor I'm not likely to continue reading. If there are so many swear words that it's a distraction - I could see that as a problem. The occasional swear word isn't going to turn me off though.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Well, Bill, you've heard me say it enough times.

    I swear like a sailor, drink like a fish, and rut like a dog. If you have a problem with that, maybe you shouldn't be my customer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    I try not to swear out of respect for those around me. If someone cusses all the time, what words are left when you disrespect someone?

    The exception is when I'm very angry or just hurt myself. If I do something like stub a toe I'll string together a pretty good combo of curse words in random orders that would make the best spinners proud.
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  • Profile picture of the author JamieSEO
    My measure tends to be "what seems to be generally socially acceptable".

    Some people are offended by anything and everything. I really could not give a flying ^%$! about those ;P

    My checkpoint tends to be TV. If it could air on free to air mainstream TV before 9pm, then it is usually mainstream slang and fairly commonly accepted.
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  • Profile picture of the author lisakleinweber
    Swear words don't bother me - if they did I'd have to divorce my husband and kick out my son, but the inclusion of swear words in a report definitely would tell me something about the marketer.
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  • Profile picture of the author kdmpublishing
    I guess it depends. Years ago, no one cursed in seminars, ebooks, ezines, etc. But now it is very common. How the person curses and the choice of words they use is critical also. If cursing is common in their sales page and videos, you may get offended, depends on the seller. If you just want to buy the product and not do a joint venture, then you may not care.

    Reminds of when you see a comedian's routine, if every word is a curse word, are they really funny? Everyone can add in foul language and pretend to be "cool, edgy, hip". No need to be someone you are not just to make a sale...
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  • Profile picture of the author ScottDudley
    I would probably laugh and not take the writer too seriously, but I would question the professionalism of the marketer.

    I swear a bit, but I never write or say anything too offensive online. I think it just attracts the wrong sort of attention and is basically unnecessary.
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  • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
      Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

      As a former US Marine, trust me, swearing like a sailor is no big deal

      Really Bill, I think there's a bigger question here than just how one reacts to swearing in sales copy...I think it's more a question of how tolerant and flexible we are when we encounter anything that falls outside of our personal standards/values and how we allow it to impact our goals.

      I've been known to swear in copy before and invariably, someone who feels the need to force their own standards on me will take the time to send an email about it - and I invariably invite them to unsubscribe.

      While I respect the rights of everyone to be their own person, what I can't accept is anyone trying to force their values onto someone else.

      I am who I am and won't ever change that - and I don't expect anyone to change to suit my values either.

      What I fail to understand is the mentality of those who would pass up a great offer or an opportunity because they're intolerant of some harmless behavior they find overwhelmingly offensive.

      Years ago I was trying to help a family friend increase revenue and growth in his small, mom and pop business. I spent a lot of time planning a series of sales and events designed to bring in customers during the Thanksgiving/Christmas holiday season.

      Although his wife was excited about the ideas, he staunchly refused to get on board because his family observed a religion which did not celebrate holidays.

      While I could respect that, whenever his wife wasn't around, this same man would talk about his female customers in ways that even I found disgusting.

      He had a lot of double-standards about his own values, many strong enough to interfere with running a small business successfully.

      Tolerance, especially online, is important for everyone, simply because of the diversity of people we're bound to encounter.
      First, thank you for your service.

      As for swearing, lol it doesnt bother me one bit.. You should hear me when I get all worked up..
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  • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
    It depends.

    I've read sales pages and watched videos where the language is just too much. That completely turns me off. In fact, there are some bigger-name marketers who I completely ignore due to the way they act on video.

    They have the freedom to act how they want, and I have the freedom to turn it off.

    I'm not a prude. A word here or there doesn't offend me. Truthfully, throwing out curse words like a druken Marine (sorry Mike) doesn't offend me either. It just causes me to lose respect for that person. If I lose enough respect, I lose interest in whatever the person is saying or doing.

    For the record, I'm not above turning off a DVD or walking out of a theater, either.

    It's a choice.

    (I know the words. My dad is retired LE. Several years ago I worked as a terminal manager for a trucking company and had 100 blue-collar employees. It's just a choice I made long ago.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Hi Bill,

    Your poll question refers to curse words which could potentially turn me off. If they are overdone to the point of distraction, then I would, at the very least, stop reading. It would have to be really bad before I requested a refund for that reason.

    Your post on the other hand says:
    Who among you is willing to disregard the entire message, based on the use of a curse word in the copy?
    And that is an entirely different question, in my opinion. One curse word probably wouldn't matter much, but if that curse word were a racial epithet, then I most likely would request a refund.

    So, it all depends on how the swearing is used, if it becomes a distraction in and of itself, and what the curse words themselves are.

    All the best,
    Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    If there is cursing in the sales copy, I guess I expect there to be cursing in the product.

    Even if the copy is clean, I don't mind cursing in the product unless, as someone else mentioned, it's a distraction. Couple the fact that so many people curse without even thinking about it with the popularity of "write like you talk" advice, and it's amazing that any product comes out squeaky clean.

    On the other hand, if I get a sense that the person is cursing 'just to be cool', or goes beyond the basic four-letter words in an effort to be deliberately offensive (such as, as Michael mentioned, racial slurs or religious jabs) I'm just cynical enough to view it as misdirection. I start looking for what the writer is trying to hide. That breaking of trust might be enough to generate a refund request.
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    I do not want to offend my viewers. Trust me, the shock value wears away. Also, you sound less pro. Try to act like a gentle man or woman. Expect that nasty language to hit your ears. Yeah, when you ask them to refund your money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Where I was born cursing cost you a fine or jail time apart
    from lack of respect.

    Whatever we say, do or think the general population think
    it "wrong" since "strong language" is a movie rating.

    From a purely academic standpoint all words are neutral.
    They are just sounds to which we have attached meanings.

    But from a relational standpoint you are judged by your
    words.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Christines Dream
      Nobody is perfect. Would you stop listening to someone just because they are not perfect. In this day and age swearing is nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author iAmNameLess
    Well... I curse, but never in copy and never to clients or customers.

    I think a few words here and there won't hurt too much, maybe even stress your point out a bit. The problem I think many people have with it, is that those that need to have all these four letter words being used as adjectives or any other part of speech, don't have the vocabulary necessary to make their point without using them. A lot of people that fill their sentences with effin this effin that, to me are uneducated. Would I discredit anything they say? Not necessarily, but I think it does devalue it more in a social aspect.
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Meaney
    It depends...

    When it comes to business... it kinda depends on the curse words being used... in business I think dropping a C or an F-bomb is unprofessional especially when it's used early on. It's not enough to make me stop buying products, but if it's being used to shock or grab attention I think it's a sign of a weak copywriter. The same way a weak comedian will uses a curse for a cheap laugh.

    To me online-business isn't too different from offline-business and there's an etiquette.. with that said, if you act like a jack-ass then I'll treat you like one.

    Although... if you're cursing because your customers have gotten to know you over time, then I believe it can be used as a trust / bonding mechanism.

    It's like anything else really, in real life you wouldn't start cursing in front of someone you just met unless you lack social skills. In real life it takes time to create that trust, online business isn't much different.
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  • Profile picture of the author VipsK
    Accept or not accept, well that is the questions here :-)
    Personally I am very good at swearing, ask my kids :-) However I think there is a time and a place for it too. To vent your frustration when hurt or angry seems ok to me. But I do not think it is well mannered to do so in a business environment. However - the question was would I discard the info/message because of the swearing - no I do not think I would - at least not if the info/product/service offered was of any use or help to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author PaulyC
    Using a few curse words here and there wouldn't deter me, as long as it fit in naturally with the way most of us use them. When they're thrown in every other word it gets to be a bit much.

    Personally, when I'm reading something and I see a curse word it tells me the author is being themselves and more transparent than most - so it kind of builds a bond in my opinion.

    Some won't like it... But then again, you'll never satisfy all of the people all of the time!
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  • Profile picture of the author WriterWahm
    Unnecessary swearing just for the sake of swearing makes me wonder about the person; not enough to discard a perfectly good copy though. Swearing can send the message home especially if it is used with skill and in a certain context. I rarely swear, unless I'm particularly provoked by my husband. But I don't generally have a problem with those who swear (except they're swearing at me.)

    So to answer your question, NO. I won't stop reading just because of a few swear words.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rough Outline
    It depends on the context, I'd be happy to write f- and sh- in reports, but even though I'm fine saying c-, I know it can offend people so I'd stear clear.
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  • Profile picture of the author jimmymc
    I'm not immune to saying a curse word occasionally, but certain people who constantly spew forth foul language make it difficult to carry on an intelligent conversation.

    The path of decadence is a slippery slope... once cursing loses it's shock value, what's next?
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Swearing doesn't offend me normally. The exception to that is when every sentence has a 4-letter word. Overuse of it tends to put me off and discredit the work that is being presented.

    Other than that, swearing here and there in copy doesn't make or break the product for me. If I learn what I want to learn from it, it has served it's purpose.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Of course, on some days around here, you could get the impression that the only truly offensive four-letter word is "work"...
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  • Profile picture of the author Cathy Z
    Swearing doesn't bother me. I swear. But, I think if your trying to be a professional it might just turn people off and not look at your product. What does swearing say about you?
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by Cathy Z View Post

      Swearing doesn't bother me. I swear. But, I think if your trying to be a professional it might just turn people off and not look at your product. What does swearing say about you?
      To me (and this is just me), when it is used in a business setting, it says:

      1. "I am trying to shock you." Why? Why not shock me with your incredible revelations? With facts? With amazing methods?

      2. "I don't know how else to put this, and my vocabulary is limited." Think harder, consult a thesaurus, or hire a writer.

      3. "I'm trying too hard to look like I'm keeping it real." You're not fooling anybody.

      4. "I want you to think I'm just like you." LOL. This only shows that they think of their audience as a bunch of people who swear a lot. I don't. Next!

      5. "I don't care how I present myself." Translation: "It's all about me."

      6. "I really swear a lot in real life, and don't %^($ care who's offended by it." Empathy and tact are useful virtues in business, try cultivating them.

      Yeah, the more I think about it, the less I like it in a business setting. Not because it's morally wrong, but because it's either a sign of ignorance or manipulation.

      All the best,
      Michael
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      • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
        I wouldn't ask for a refund, nor would I send an email and let them know I found it distasteful, however I wouldn't be impressed. I simply wouldn't purchase anything else from them nor recommend them to anyone with a word of mouth referral.

        I wouldn't expect a business report to use curse words unless it was authored by Steve Tyler, lol!

        I rather look for class acts in the business arena and in order to be a class act, one must operate with class. This of course is my personal opinion.

        Oh and lastly, the anal part of me would do an edit mark up and rewrites on those portions! :p

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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Here's my take, Bill...

    You know very well, I have a mouth that even Orbit gum can't sanitize. Gets me in trouble with others regularly - but that's ME.

    A good sales letter is not about ME... it's about the PROSPECT.

    Are you pitching 18-24 gamers?
    Work at home moms?
    Retired garage inventors and tinkerers?

    What would THEY say?

    B
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  • Profile picture of the author yourreviewer
    You mean, something like this? No, I won't be offended.

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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by yourreviewer View Post

      You mean, something like this? No, I won't be offended.
      See, there's business, and then there's Business.

      ~Michael
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  • Profile picture of the author MMWoodward
    Personally, I wouldn't be offended if the words were used sparingly. If they became too common, however, I would probably start to get annoyed because I'm sure I would've purchased the content for valuable information and not something that would make a poor censor's heart explode.

    I wouldn't ask for a refund if the content was still able to deliver valuable content despite the swearing. If it had too much, I would just simply avoid purchasing anything else from the seller in the future.

    I would also try to keep in mind what target audience the content was intended for. If the target audience was, say, video gamers, I would expect a fair amount of swearing! I know myself that I can get quite bad when playing video games...
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  • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
    Doesn't bother me in any online product or service.

    However if you're cursing like a sailor in a public place and I'm with my kids, I'll ask you to stop cursing in front of them. (If I can't remove them from the situation).

    I know they're going to swear eventually but having a two year old dropping f-bombs is cut for about 2 minutes then it gets old.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Who among you is willing to disregard the entire message, based on the use of a curse word in the copy?

    And, how many of you would be willing to overlook the curse words in the copy, if the message is good?
    In terms of reading (or listening to) profanity in someone's sales copy (or video), it all depends on the context. If you're trying to sell me an e-book on how to pick up chicks and your general demographic is the 18-35 male crowd, then a little profanity isn't going to bother me one bit.

    But if I go to your sales page that's trying to sell me retirement planning or any kind of financial planning advice or tools, it comes off as extremely unprofessional if you're using the s-word, f-word, or the b-word, or the......well, you catch my #$%*@ drift!

    It's all in the context.

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      I went for 'depends'.

      Personally, I don't like it. Think it's tacky and loses a bit of respect, from me.

      I don't mind softer words. Hell, use "fu**ing" if your talking about sex, but don't tell me your "fu**ing exited to bring me this big bast**d product launch".
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
        As Brian said , it depends on your prospect.

        If you're selling to your own list and that's your personality, then it work's.

        People that have strong personalities or use offensive words can have a very hard core audience.

        Take Andrew "Dice" Clay or Howard Stern. Stern has a very rabid fan base that literally buys what ever he is selling. Even if you're a nice guy that has a bigger list...a strong personality that has a smaller list of rabid customers can make more money.

        .
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        • Profile picture of the author bobsstuff
          I am not offened by swearing. I do not like to see it in professional settings.

          To me it is not a matter of "how many would be" or "how many would not be" offended, it is a matter of bottom line. How much money are you going to make by including profanity in your copy? How much money are you going to lose?

          If you have the potential to make $100,000 a year and you "offend" 30% of your readers, that could cost you $30,000 a year. Is profanity or any other tactic worth the cost?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Hess
    Like Ralphie says...

    "I had heard that word at least ten times a day from my old man. He worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium; a master."

    (But probably would never use it on a sales page or in a product)
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  • Profile picture of the author NicoleBeckett
    As someone who's not afraid to curse (you'd be amazed at how news reporters talk when they're not on the air! ), I wouldn't dare use 4-letter words in any kind of business context. I wouldn't be offended enough to ask for a refund (unless, like some folks have pointed out, the cursing was distracting or was some kind of slur). However, having curse words sprinkled throughout would definitely make me think twice about the person I'm dealing with.

    After all, you wouldn't use 4-letter words in a business meeting or if one of your customers walked into your brick and mortar store, so you shouldn't use it in sales copy/newsletters/etc., either. Just my $0.02
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Bill Jeffels View Post

      As Brian said , it depends on your prospect.

      If you're selling to your own list and that's your personality, then it work's.

      People that have strong personalities or use offensive words can have a very hard core audience.

      Take Andrew "Dice" Clay or Howard Stern. Stern has a very rabid fan base that literally buys what ever he is selling. Even if you're a nice guy that has a bigger list...a strong personality that has a smaller list of rabid customers can make more money.

      .
      On the other hand, consider two of the highest paid endorsers on the radio - the late, great Paul Harvey and Rush Limbaugh. I don't think I ever heard Harvey curse, and Limbaugh rarely goes beyond an occasional vulgarity. Yet his 20 million strong audience of 'dittoheads' flock to buy whatever he promotes.

      This does not in any way invalidate your basic premise. Both Harvey and Limbaugh have strong personalities. They just didn't need four-letter words to show that strength...
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
    You're right , John. I can't argue with what you have said.

    Strong personality's, using fowl language or not can have a very large fan base. They are people they that can have large fan base's and step out from the crowd. And, yes, can have their listeners buy whatever they endorse.

    Best,

    Bill Jeffels



    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Dennis Gaskill
    Originally Posted by tpw View Post

    Who among you is willing to disregard the entire message, based on the use of a curse word in the copy?
    I served in the Navy. Cursing is so common I got sick of it. I wouldn't stop reading the sales message based on the use of "a" curse word. If there were a lot of them the message had better be pretty compelling or I probably would tire of it, as I think there is usually a better way to make a point. Usually.

    Having said that, when I buy a product I seldom just buy the first one I look at, I compare. All else being equal between competing products, I'd opt for the more professional presentation, which would be the product that didn't have profanity in the sales pitch.


    Strong personality's, using fowl language or not can have a very large fan base.
    Fowl language is for chickens.
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