Holy S!!!T! Has Anyone Else Seen This???

by JonnyAndrews 108 replies
What in the name of all that's holy is Cash Gifting?!?!

This cannot be in any way legal.

Had a guy yesterday send me a link to a video site talking all about how people are sending FedEx envelopes full of money. I'm not kidding, I got paranoid "The Man" would kick down my door just for having watched this freakish thing... (Cleaning my history as I type)

Seriously, this cannot be legal and no I'm not going to post the link. It's too evil.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #holy
  • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
    ummm...

    sounds like a chain letter to me
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    • Profile picture of the author zach2393
      Haha it is not illegal at all!
      I've done it...made around 4000.
      Alot of work...it's like affiliate marketing but with sums of 500 1500 and 3000.
      You give one person one of the sums, than your first referral gives your referer there first sums. Than your next referral gives you the money and there reffer gives you there money.
      Confusing? A little.
      Profitable? YES!!!
      Have a big list of people?
      You could make thousands easy each reffer has the possibility of earnign you 7000 dollars.
      it's basically affiliate marketing to the the next level!
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      • Profile picture of the author B3n
        Originally Posted by zach2393 View Post

        Haha it is not illegal at all!
        I've done it...made around 4000.
        And the slime is attracted to this thread.

        Zach Booker, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. You aren't to be trusted.
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      • Profile picture of the author adamv
        Originally Posted by zach2393 View Post

        Haha it is not illegal at all!
        I've done it...made around 4000.
        Alot of work...it's like affiliate marketing but with sums of 500 1500 and 3000.
        You give one person one of the sums, than your first referral gives your referer there first sums. Than your next referral gives you the money and there reffer gives you there money.
        Confusing? A little.
        Profitable? YES!!!
        Have a big list of people?
        You could make thousands easy each reffer has the possibility of earnign you 7000 dollars.
        it's basically affiliate marketing to the the next level!
        Yes it is illegal. Just because you've pocketed $4,000 does not mean it's a legitimate business model.

        But then again, everything in your sig. sounds a little fishy too, so maybe that's how you roll.

        Run Your car On Water:
        http://www. run--your--car--on--water.com
        Make Money Online:
        http://www. make-thousands-online-easily.com
        http://www .legit-online-jobs-for-you.com
        All of these sound scammy to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
        Originally Posted by zach2393 View Post

        Haha it is not illegal at all!
        I've done it...made around 4000.
        Alot of work...it's like affiliate marketing but with sums of 500 1500 and 3000.
        You give one person one of the sums, than your first referral gives your referer there first sums. Than your next referral gives you the money and there reffer gives you there money.
        Confusing? A little.
        Profitable? YES!!!
        Have a big list of people?
        You could make thousands easy each reffer has the possibility of earnign you 7000 dollars.
        it's basically affiliate marketing to the the next level!

        Well if you say it's right it must be... where do I send the cash to?...

        Sheesh... you're asking for a big one here dude.... are you of legal experience in this field?.... nah, didn't think so...

        I can't say this any clearer for you..

        CASH GIFTING IS ILLEGAL....

        no matter which way you cut it.

        The doors are now open

        Good luck...

        Jay
        Signature

        Bare Murkage.........

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        • Profile picture of the author daddyoh
          To each his own, I guess. I'm staying away from it!
          Not only is it illegal, most people lose money at it.

          Come on you guys, it's not even a real, sustainable, long-term biz.
          Now back to IM!
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          You give one person one of the sums, than your first referral gives your referer there first sums. Than your next referral gives you the money and there reffer gives you there money.
          And then the feds cry "ponzi"....

          There was a long thread (that I can't find anywhere) about the charges against several of these "bright ideas" - but one interesting thread is

          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...sd-coffin.html

          The feds shut down the businesses - confiscate the homes and bank accounts of the owners - and then often go after money from others who benefited financially from the scheme.

          After the recent legal charges against some large cash gifting schemes - people still participating in these schemes really need get a grip on reality.

          kay
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          • Profile picture of the author Michael Dominic
            Within the United States anyone that is involved in "cash gifting" scheme is breaking the law. It's a pyramid scheme.


            This is how it works:
            1. The big guy at the top advertises in magazines, on the internet, in direct mail, etc...
            2. People call with interest since the big guy claims they can make a lot of money.
            3. Gullable people send lots of cash (like $3,000 for example) to the big guy wrapped in a "dislcaimer letter" (they have some fancy term for it) stating that it is a gift and not subject to taxes, blah, blah, blah...
            4. People that sent the money consult the big guy on how to make the money back by giving them leads or telling them how to advertise.
            5. The big guy keeps the FIRST (example: $3,000) that these people bring in so the big guy technically made ($6,000) double the money from ONE person!
            6. Then the big guy feels he is no longer obligated to coach these people to scam more people so the people that got scammed by him try to scam other people and people just keep scamming people and breaking the law.
            As you can see it becomes a huge pyramid scheme with lots of cash involved, especially with the big guy.

            It is ILLEGAL to recruit people and take money from them to tell them to do the same thing you're doing for them to make money.

            NONE of that money is considered a "gift" by the U.S. Government.

            Why the hell would anyone send $3,000 in cash to some stranger in hopes of getting rich? It's not realistic.
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            • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
              Not only is it illegal, it just doesn't make sense. Everyone sending strangers money and you're supposed to get rich??

              What's surprising to me is so many people fall for it. I don't know if they are stupid or they want money so bad, greed blinds them.

              Same ole story, people at the very top get rich, while everyone loses out. I don't see how that is so hard for so many to understand. Or maybe they do understand, they just hope they will be one of the people at the top.
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            • Profile picture of the author JoseArmando
              Originally Posted by Michael Dominic View Post

              Why the hell would anyone send $3,000 in cash to some stranger in hopes of getting rich? It's not realistic.
              This is so true... And hilarious at the same time. It really blows my mind how can some people be so gullible to fall for ponzi...
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        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
          Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post


          I can't say this any clearer for you..

          CASH GIFTING IS ILLEGAL....
          FALSE

          I give people cash gifts quite often.
          Signature
          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
          ~ Zig Ziglar
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          • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
            Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

            FALSE

            I give people cash gifts quite often.
            Are you part of a chain where the guy at the top benefits? Or are you giving gifts to charities, families, and friends?

            If you're the former, you're a scam artist. If you're the latter, I humbly apologize.
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            • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
              Seeing another really weird trend... in many of the videos not only are they opening FedEx packages, but the actual cash is sent in envelopes packaged in high graphic/high gloss catalogs.

              Stuff like People Magazine.

              My understanding of current package screening methods is the good folks at FedEx/UPS/USPS are scanning packages like this LOOKING for money which may be used to fund nasty business...

              Magazines/catalogs with the colors and paper thickness like that could be used to mask any identifying marks on the $20 - $100 being sent. I don't think they'd show up in a scan.

              It just seems like everything they do is an attempt to avoid having a light shown into their dark little corners.

              Ick.
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              • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
                Funny that Network Marketing is also often confused with cash gifting.

                Or rather, cash gifting is disguised as NM!

                When I was new online, I joined a gifting thing. Nothing bug... just $120. They said they would give me the exact resources, and then gave me some spamvertisements to post on forums and communities and groups! I actually got a few people involved but when I realized what was happening, I refunded the $100 I had made from each of them PLUS $20 TO EACH FROM MY OWN POCKET. OUCH!

                Stay away form it! EVEN if you want some real cash fast and a mob is after your life!
                -Lakshay
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                • Profile picture of the author valerieSONORA
                  Is this video on a website? I'm curious about what's in the video.
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                • Profile picture of the author Uanz
                  my advice.. RUN AWAY from this kind of program..

                  It smell PONZI!!

                  Better be safe than get burn in the end..

                  Stay Away!!!
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                • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                  So, here's my story...

                  I have been involved in Internet Marketing, affiliate programs and the like for several years now on and off...successful but no million dollars yet. A few months back I really started hearing a lot about cash gifting and seeing all these FedEx videos. So the whole money in a magazine thing was really weird to me, but it looked interesting and I decided to check further into it. I've read a lot of opinions either way. Some adamantly claim it is legal. Others just as sincerely claim it's not.

                  Here's my question...If the documents are signed, stating that this actually IS a GIFT, how can anyone take legal action against that?

                  Now, I must say (don't crucify me) but I am involved in cash gifting. No packages in the mail though. It's all PayPal. However, there are two forms to fill out - a statement of gifting and a non-solicitation forms. The particular program that I am involved in claims that it is not a ponzi, matrix, pyramid, or whatever. Either I'm not as knowledgeable on the definitions as I thought, or I'm getting lost in semantics.

                  The lowest gifting level is $100, and it follows a 1-up structure - meaning the first gift you receive is "up-ed" to your Inviter, and all gifts thereafter from those whom you invite are yours to to do with as you wish. So, I don't see the pyramid here, as no one is at the ultimate top getting rich, but again, perhaps I'm missing something. I just know cash gifting has been a blessing to me.


                  I will also say though, I don't want to participate in something illegal. I can't do that in good conscious, and would hope no one could. However, I'm just not convinced. It's almost like politics or religion - everyone says they're right, but c'mon...

                  So, I'll stop my rambling and repeat my question...a legitimate question too, as I really want to know...If the documents are signed, stating that this actually IS a GIFT, how can anyone take legal action against that?

                  Have a great day!
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                  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
                    Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                    So, here's my story...

                    I have been involved in Internet Marketing, affiliate programs and the like for several years now on and off...successful but no million dollars yet. A few months back I really started hearing a lot about cash gifting and seeing all these FedEx videos. So the whole money in a magazine thing was really weird to me, but it looked interesting and I decided to check further into it. I've read a lot of opinions either way. Some adamantly claim it is legal. Others just as sincerely claim it's not.

                    Here's my question...If the documents are signed, stating that this actually IS a GIFT, how can anyone take legal action against that?

                    Now, I must say (don't crucify me) but I am involved in cash gifting. No packages in the mail though. It's all PayPal. However, there are two forms to fill out - a statement of gifting and a non-solicitation forms. The particular program that I am involved in claims that it is not a ponzi, matrix, pyramid, or whatever. Either I'm not as knowledgeable on the definitions as I thought, or I'm getting lost in semantics.

                    The lowest gifting level is $100, and it follows a 1-up structure - meaning the first gift you receive is "up-ed" to your Inviter, and all gifts thereafter from those whom you invite are yours to to do with as you wish. So, I don't see the pyramid here, as no one is at the ultimate top getting rich, but again, perhaps I'm missing something. I just know cash gifting has been a blessing to me.


                    I will also say though, I don't want to participate in something illegal. I can't do that in good conscious, and would hope no one could. However, I'm just not convinced. It's almost like politics or religion - everyone says they're right, but c'mon...

                    So, I'll stop my rambling and repeat my question...a legitimate question too, as I really want to know...If the documents are signed, stating that this actually IS a GIFT, how can anyone take legal action against that?

                    Have a great day!
                    Just because you sign a contract does not make it legal.

                    If I sign loan papers with a loan shark agreeing to pay his illegal loan rates, does that make his business legal?
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                    • Profile picture of the author Greg Cooksley
                      This kind of reminds me of the old chain letter thingy....

                      You know, send money to the name at the top of the list. Delete
                      that name and add yours to the bottom of the list.....

                      Only the guys at the top win....

                      Bottom feeders remain just that....

                      Rather think of this:

                      "Play it forward...."

                      What good cause can you contribute to?

                      Without expecting anything in return!!!

                      It's better to give than it is to receive....

                      Regards

                      Greg
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jack Bastide
                        Ok heres the Deal ...

                        Cash Gifters often refer to an IRS Rule
                        thats says it is Legal to "GIFT" up to
                        X amount per year without paying taxes

                        But thats only If "YOU DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING IN RETURN"

                        So I can give you money but NOT if I am
                        doing its a business to get others to give me Money

                        So I found this Cash Gifter on Youtube and confronted
                        him about this

                        He claimed he was Gifting Money without an Expectation
                        of Return

                        So I said Ok can you send me some money?

                        He said he would

                        Months later I'm still waiting

                        Jack
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                        If you can drive Biz Op Phone Calls .... I'm Buying

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                        • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                          Originally Posted by Jack Bastide View Post

                          Ok heres the Deal ...

                          Cash Gifters often refer to an IRS Rule
                          thats says it is Legal to "GIFT" up to
                          X amount per year without paying taxes

                          But thats only If "YOU DON'T EXPECT ANYTHING IN RETURN"

                          So I can give you money but NOT if I am
                          doing its a business to get others to give me Money

                          So I found this Cash Gifter on Youtube and confronted
                          him about this

                          He claimed he was Gifting Money without an Expectation
                          of Return

                          So I said Ok can you send me some money?

                          He said he would

                          Months later I'm still waiting

                          Jack

                          Very funny!!

                          You see, that's my ultimate dilemma in regards to cash gifting. I keep asking myself is their a difference in EXPECTING something in return, and HOPING for something in return. I'm not trying to play on words here, just thinking out loud...
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        I will also say though, I don't want to participate in something illegal. I can't do that in good conscious, and would hope no one could. However, I'm just not convinced. It's almost like politics or religion - everyone says they're right, but c'mon...
                        You are not convinced because you want to believe it's legal. You will read the government page and the fed charges against these companies - and believe a video on youtube instead. You will copy "facts" that claim "this is legal" and "the IRS allows this" without doing any research to see if those claims are truthful (they aren't).

                        That's exactly what these people count on - the desire for easy money being so compelling that common sense goes out the window.

                        FedEx instead of the post office? Why could that possibly be necessary? Surely it couldn't have anything to do with violating federal law, could it?
                        That's exactly the reason - and it won't avoid legal or IRS problems.

                        Kay
                        Signature

                        Saving one dog may not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.

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                      • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                        Originally Posted by Greg Cooksley View Post

                        This kind of reminds me of the old chain letter thingy....

                        You know, send money to the name at the top of the list. Delete
                        that name and add yours to the bottom of the list.....

                        Only the guys at the top win....

                        Bottom feeders remain just that....

                        Rather think of this:

                        "Play it forward...."

                        What good cause can you contribute to?

                        Without expecting anything in return!!!

                        It's better to give than it is to receive....

                        Regards

                        Greg

                        I remember those letters. I usually saw them with like 26 names on the list..some shorter, some longer. Seemed pretty ridiculous.

                        For me personally what convinced me to participate in this particular gifting program was that there was no guy at the top...everyone had a equal chance.

                        I'm responding though to your post mainly because I loved what you said.

                        "What good cause can you contribute to? Without expecting anything in return!!! It's better to give than it is to receive...."

                        I totally agree! While I completely agree with what you said, how does this apply to cash gifting but not necessarily other online money making activities?



                        PS - I saw a really good movie the other night with Demi Moore and Michael Caine called Flawless. The main idea of the movie centered around a question...Will you be a giver or a taker?
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                    • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                      Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

                      Just because you sign a contract does not make it legal.

                      If I sign loan papers with a loan shark agreeing to pay his illegal loan rates, does that make his business legal?

                      Very good point.

                      What happens if a person does sign that contract though? Are they still obligated to pay those rates? Does said contract protect the shark? What responsibility does the signer of the contract have...are they obligated to their word, do they have to pay back the loan, or what? Isn't a contract a contract?

                      Now this might be a stupid question, I just honestly don't know.


                      Don't misunderstand what I'm asking either because I certainly don't want to be a "cash gifting shark" because there are some of those out there. I'm just stuck on the point that if people

                      (1) understand what they are doing, i.e - giving a gift,
                      (2) sign a "contract" saying they understand, and
                      (3) both parties follow certain guidelines,

                      there seems to be no illegal activity.

                      But I shall read on...
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                      • Profile picture of the author Jelasco
                        Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                        What happens if a person does sign that contract though? Are they still obligated to pay those rates? Does said contract protect the shark? What responsibility does the signer of the contract have...are they obligated to their word, do they have to pay back the loan, or what? Isn't a contract a contract?
                        It's a basic legal principle that a contract which has illegal terms cannot be enforced.

                        If my friend wants to die but doesn't have the guts to do it himself, so he asks me to do it and we sign a contract, I'd still be guilty of murder if I went through with it. The contract doesn't allow me to break the law even though the victim agrees with it.

                        Or imagine someone who has a contract to deliver a certain amount of illegal drugs- do you think that would be enforceable?
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                      • Profile picture of the author davezan
                        Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                        Does said contract protect the shark?
                        Not necessarily. It can protect the shark or whomever from the other person
                        who agreed to it, but not the authorities who might be ready to demonstrate
                        how the person's act possibly violated any applicable law.

                        Then again, various contracts are voided by judges every other day. It's case
                        to case, depending on any and all available facts provided.

                        Why wait for that to happen?
                        Signature

                        David

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                        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                          Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                          Forgive my ignorance, but maybe I just missed it. Where does the FTC say it is illegal?
                          Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

                          From The FTC Website:
                          The Gifting Club "Gotcha"
                          When is a gift not a gift? When it’s a "gotcha."

                          In a scam spreading throughout the mid-Atlantic states and the Pacific Northwest, people pay to join a "gifting club," billed in promotional materials as a private club with members eager to help new friends -- often from within their own neighborhood or church group.

                          In reality, the clubs are illegal pyramid schemes. New club members give cash "gifts" to the highest-ranking club members, with titles such as "captains." And they’re promised that if they get additional members to join the club, they, too, will rise to become captains and receive money – far more than they initially paid to join the club -- from newer club "friends."

                          The problem is that, like most pyramid schemes, illegal gifting clubs must continually recruit ever-increasing numbers of members to survive. When the clubs don’t attract enough new members, they collapse. Most members who paid to join the clubs never receive the financial "gifts" they expected, and lose everything they paid to join the club.
                          Don’t Get on the Receiving End of a Gifting Club "Gotcha"

                          Promises of quick, easy money can be a powerful lure – especially when it comes with the additional benefit of new friendships.

                          If you’re approached about joining a club but you aren’t sure if it’s an illegal gifting club, the Federal Trade Commission reminds you to:

                          * Consider that a legitimate gift has no strings attached and is not an "investment."
                          * Avoid being misled into thinking a gifting club is legitimate because the ads say that members consider their payments a gift and expect nothing in return. This is an attempt to make an illegal transaction look legal.
                          * Be wary of success stories or testimonials of tremendous payoffs. Very few members of illegal gifting clubs or pyramid schemes ever receive any money.
                          * Take your time. Don’t buckle under to a high-pressure sales pitch that requires you to join immediately or risk losing out on the opportunity. Remember, solid opportunities – and solid friendships – aren’t formed through nerve-wracking tactics.

                          To File a Complaint

                          If you’ve been victimized by a gifting club promoter, contact your local consumer protection agency, state attorney general and Better Business Bureau.

                          The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters consumer complaints into the Consumer Sentinel Network, a secure online database and investigative tool used by hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
                          Does that answer your question?

                          (Thanks Johnny)

                          ~Michael
                          Signature

                          "Ich bin en fuego!"
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                          • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                            Does that answer your question?

                            (Thanks Johnny)

                            ~Michael
                            It answers a question, but not the one I asked you.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                              Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                              It answers a question, but not the one I asked you.
                              You asked where does the FTC say it's illegal. I then quoted the answer Johnny got from the FTC. I then highlighted each place the word 'illegal' was used to make it easy for you. Sorry you missed it.

                              ~Michael
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                              "Ich bin en fuego!"
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                      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
                        Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                        Very good point.

                        What happens if a person does sign that contract though? Are they still obligated to pay those rates? Does said contract protect the shark? What responsibility does the signer of the contract have...are they obligated to their word, do they have to pay back the loan, or what? Isn't a contract a contract?

                        Now this might be a stupid question, I just honestly don't know.


                        Don't misunderstand what I'm asking either because I certainly don't want to be a "cash gifting shark" because there are some of those out there. I'm just stuck on the point that if people

                        (1) understand what they are doing, i.e - giving a gift,
                        (2) sign a "contract" saying they understand, and
                        (3) both parties follow certain guidelines,

                        there seems to be no illegal activity.

                        But I shall read on...
                        Here's the thing.

                        If the enterprise itself is illegal (violates the law in and of itself), any contract signed is automatically null and void.

                        Cash gifting by design is an illegal pyramid scheme. So all that paperwork you sign or have signed isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Neither are any of the guidelines you claim to follow either.

                        Don't get caught up in words, look at the fact the people at the top get paid via the new recruits into the system. That and that alone is what makes it a ponzi scheme.

                        Let me give you one last quote to chew on.

                        "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
                        -Author unknown
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                        • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                          So, I do have a question that I've been pondering since starting this whole discussion, and while this may not be the best place or time to ask, I figured there was no harm in getting your opinions.

                          For me, cash gifting has proven to be a financial blessing. In fact, it is my ONLY source of ONLINE income. Now, just to fill you in on my situation, every penny I make online is extra spendable income, as I also work full time. I say that just to say I'm not desperate, but since my wife and I do enjoy the extra security, (as well as LEGALLY giving things away...lol) I was wondering what activity should I look further into.

                          In other words, here is my question: In your opinion, what is the most effective way to quickly replace my current cash gifting income with a more "ethical" source?
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                          • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                            Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                            So, I do have a question that I've been pondering since starting this whole discussion, and while this may not be the best place or time to ask, I figured there was no harm in getting your opinions.

                            For me, cash gifting has proven to be a financial blessing. In fact, it is my ONLY source of ONLINE income. Now, just to fill you in on my situation, every penny I make online is extra spendable income, as I also work full time. I say that just to say I'm not desperate, but since my wife and I do enjoy the extra security, (as well as LEGALLY giving things away...lol) I was wondering what activity should I look further into.

                            In other words, here is my question: In your opinion, what is the most effective way to quickly replace my current cash gifting income with a more "ethical" source?
                            Hi dt,

                            First, let me say that you have displayed a very level-headed attitude. We have seen 'gifters' in the forum who get incredibly defensive and refuse to listen to reason.

                            You have treated everyone with respect, and that tells me you are on the right track. Plus, you are asking good questions.

                            To answer how to make money is like asking how do you drive from Tennessee to Washington! There are many ways to get there, the scenery is great, and if you follow a map you'll arrive much faster.

                            The forum is full of different methods. Now, I offer paid coachimg, but if you are interested I am always up for a chat and willing to help. Just let me know.

                            As I used to say...

                            Wishing you every success,
                            Michael Oksa
                            Signature

                            "Ich bin en fuego!"
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                          • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
                            Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                            So, I do have a question that I've been pondering since starting this whole discussion, and while this may not be the best place or time to ask, I figured there was no harm in getting your opinions.

                            For me, cash gifting has proven to be a financial blessing. In fact, it is my ONLY source of ONLINE income. Now, just to fill you in on my situation, every penny I make online is extra spendable income, as I also work full time. I say that just to say I'm not desperate, but since my wife and I do enjoy the extra security, (as well as LEGALLY giving things away...lol) I was wondering what activity should I look further into.

                            In other words, here is my question: In your opinion, what is the most effective way to quickly replace my current cash gifting income with a more "ethical" source?
                            Here's a question that ought to haunt you at night.

                            What you currently are doing is a felony. That means you could conceivably end up in jail for years if the feds were to close down your little gifting club.

                            How much will you lose if you end up in jail? Are you prepared to lose your job, your home, your car, possibly your wife and kids?

                            Is that extra spendable income you're currently getting worth it now?

                            I'm hitting you over the head with this because unlike your grifting...err gifting buddies, I actually do care about you.

                            Wake up and change your ways pal, nothing is worth risking everything you worked your whole life on.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Chris Lockwood
                    Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                    Here's my question...If the documents are signed, stating that this actually IS a GIFT, how can anyone take legal action against that?

                    Now, I must say (don't crucify me) but I am involved in cash gifting. No packages in the mail though. It's all PayPal. However, there are two forms to fill out - a statement of gifting and a non-solicitation forms. The particular program that I am involved in claims that it is not a ponzi, matrix, pyramid, or whatever. Either I'm not as knowledgeable on the definitions as I thought, or I'm getting lost in semantics.

                    The lowest gifting level is $100, and it follows a 1-up structure - meaning the first gift you receive is "up-ed" to your Inviter, and all gifts thereafter from those whom you invite are yours to to do with as you wish. So, I don't see the pyramid here, as no one is at the ultimate top getting rich, but again, perhaps I'm missing something. I just know cash gifting has been a blessing to me.
                    Programs like that always say they are legal, not a scam, not a Ponzi, etc. That doesn't make it true. Just the fact they say that makes me skeptical- I've never felt a need to say "this is legal" on any of my sales letters.

                    Just from your description of it, the flaw is obvious. You gave money to people above you, and those under you gave you money. How does the last guy to join get paid? Somebody else has to join to pay him, right? Eventually you run out of people to join... this is the classic Ponzi, where new people pay old ones and eventually it all collapses.

                    It doesn't matter if the structure is a pyramid or a straight line, still sounds like a Ponzi to me.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                    Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                    So, here's my story...

                    I have been involved in Internet Marketing, affiliate programs and the like for several years now on and off...successful but no million dollars yet. A few months back I really started hearing a lot about cash gifting and seeing all these FedEx videos. So the whole money in a magazine thing was really weird to me, but it looked interesting and I decided to check further into it. I've read a lot of opinions either way. Some adamantly claim it is legal. Others just as sincerely claim it's not.

                    Here's my question...If the documents are signed, stating that this actually IS a GIFT, how can anyone take legal action against that?

                    Now, I must say (don't crucify me) but I am involved in cash gifting. No packages in the mail though. It's all PayPal. However, there are two forms to fill out - a statement of gifting and a non-solicitation forms. The particular program that I am involved in claims that it is not a ponzi, matrix, pyramid, or whatever. Either I'm not as knowledgeable on the definitions as I thought, or I'm getting lost in semantics.

                    The lowest gifting level is $100, and it follows a 1-up structure - meaning the first gift you receive is "up-ed" to your Inviter, and all gifts thereafter from those whom you invite are yours to to do with as you wish. So, I don't see the pyramid here, as no one is at the ultimate top getting rich, but again, perhaps I'm missing something. I just know cash gifting has been a blessing to me.


                    I will also say though, I don't want to participate in something illegal. I can't do that in good conscious, and would hope no one could. However, I'm just not convinced. It's almost like politics or religion - everyone says they're right, but c'mon...

                    So, I'll stop my rambling and repeat my question...a legitimate question too, as I really want to know...If the documents are signed, stating that this actually IS a GIFT, how can anyone take legal action against that?

                    Have a great day!
                    Dude, you need to get out now.

                    If I want to give someone a gift, I'd run the other way if the made me sign one thing, much less two.

                    I would send it through the USPS, or any service I choose, not FedEx only.

                    And if I was sending someone a GIFT, you can bet it would be any amount I wanted. Not a minimum of $100.

                    Oh, and hope PayPal doesn't find out,because they will shut your account down immediately if they do. And they won't care that you signed something to cover your tracks.

                    Come on people. The justifications are nonsense.

                    It is not an argument for or against. It should be illegal. It is illegal. Stop being creative with your justifications and make some honest money.

                    An opinion is something that is not factual. My opinion is that anyone participating in cash gifting is stupid and/or greedy. BUT, they may be intelligent people that have fallen for it. See, that makes my thought that all cash gifters are stupid just an opinion.

                    The FTC says it is illegal. That is a fact. Not an opinion.

                    Cash gifting is illegal.

                    These programs try to twist the IRS rules on gift giving. I hope every cash gifter gets caught - and gets punishe to the full extent of the law. Every one of them. Yeah, I know, there are innocent people that get caught up in these things. Sorry, but ignorance is no excuse when it comes to breaking the law. Crack down and crack down hard - on every one and you can bet it will be a long time before anyone falls for this steaming pile of refuse again.

                    Cash gifting is illegal. That means it is against the law. The prisons are full of people who were innocent, or felt justified in their crimes - that doesn't make it legal.

                    ~Michael
                    Signature

                    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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                    • For me personally, I have trouble equating cash gifting with skinning people...lol.
                      What if you were one of the poor blokes who got in late, digs up all the extra money they can, then "gifts" it, then no one gifts to them? Where do you think the "profits" in this come from? How do you think YOU get ahead in the deal?

                      You only get ahead when someone else gives up their money. Think about it. If everyone involved gifted and profited evenly, then everyone would end up with the same amount of money they started with. Well what's the point in that? In order for anyone involved to PROFIT, many have to lose.

                      Do you not think those poor clueless people have been "skinned"? I sure do. If you EVER make any money in a deal like this, I hope you can live with yourself knowing that you have taken it directly from some poor soul who could probably not afford to lose it.

                      Stop looking for ways to justify what you are doing. Even if it was legal, it would still be MORALLY wrong to fleece the poor bottom run people out of their money. But because that's exactly what happens, that's WHY it's illegal.

                      Open your eyes my friend.

                      Barry
                      Signature

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                      • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                        Originally Posted by Barry Richardson View Post

                        What if you were one of the poor blokes who got in late, digs up all the extra money they can, then "gifts" it, then no one gifts to them? Where do you think the "profits" in this come from? How do you think YOU get ahead in the deal?

                        You only get ahead when someone else gives up their money. Think about it. If everyone involved gifted and profited evenly, then everyone would end up with the same amount of money they started with. Well what's the point in that? In order for anyone involved to PROFIT, many have to lose.

                        Do you not think those poor clueless people have been "skinned"? I sure do. If you EVER make any money in a deal like this, I hope you can live with yourself knowing that you have taken it directly from some poor soul who could probably not afford to lose it.

                        Stop looking for ways to justify what you are doing. Even if it was legal, it would still be MORALLY wrong to fleece the poor bottom run people out of their money. But because that's exactly what happens, that's WHY it's illegal.

                        Open your eyes my friend.

                        Barry
                        I do feel sorry for any "clueless" person who gets duped, but...

                        If you EVER make any money in a deal like this, I hope you can live with yourself knowing that you have taken it directly from some poor soul who could probably not afford to lose it.

                        I don't know, that seems a little pretentious. What about the poor soul who scrapes up $19.95 a month for a product ot service (which may be completely legit and even more valuable than the monthly fee) but still makes no profit. Can you live with yourself? Perhaps you provide training. As do any good cash gifting program you participate in. I just don't see the difference, and hope we can all be consistent in our logic.

                        Even if it was legal, it would still be MORALLY wrong to fleece the poor bottom run people out of their money.

                        Saying that the people who participate in cash gifting are the bottom feeders is also taking it a little bit far in my opinion. I mean, does that same precedent hold to your services and opportunities? And if not, how is it different.

                        Help me open my eyes.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                          Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                          I do feel sorry for any "clueless" person who gets duped, but...

                          If you EVER make any money in a deal like this, I hope you can live with yourself knowing that you have taken it directly from some poor soul who could probably not afford to lose it.

                          I don't know, that seems a little pretentious. What about the poor soul who scrapes up $19.95 a month for a product ot service (which may be completely legit and even more valuable than the monthly fee) but still makes no profit. Can you live with yourself? Perhaps you provide training. As do any good cash gifting program you participate in. I just don't see the difference, and hope we can all be consistent in our logic.

                          Even if it was legal, it would still be MORALLY wrong to fleece the poor bottom run people out of their money.

                          Saying that the people who participate in cash gifting are the bottom feeders is also taking it a little bit far in my opinion. I mean, does that same precedent hold to your services and opportunities? And if not, how is it different.

                          Help me open my eyes.
                          Then why do you still do it? You should have stopped BEFORE the comma.

                          Trying to equate an illegal cash gifting program with legitimate products and services BECAUSE some people don't follow through makes no sense. That's not a valid argument - it's misdirection.

                          Methinks any claim of your innocence is being betrayed by your remarks.

                          ~Michael
                          Signature

                          "Ich bin en fuego!"
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                          • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                            Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                            Then why do you still do it? You should have stopped BEFORE the comma.

                            Trying to equate an illegal cash gifting program with legitimate products and services BECAUSE some people don't follow through makes no sense. That's not a valid argument - it's misdirection.

                            Methinks any claim of your innocence is being betrayed by your remarks.

                            ~Michael

                            Well the FTC link was VERY interesting, and a first read for me, so thanks to both of you guys (Michael and Johnny) for the post.

                            By the way Michael, my comment about the question not being answered was intended for someone else all together, so my apologies. Blurry eyes I suppose...

                            To clear things up, I don't think those two things are the same (cash gifting programs vs. tangible products or services), and I most certainly see the difference...it's a big one. My issue was in presenting cash gifting (whether legal or not aside) and those involved with it as EITHER scammers or "poor clueless people". I considered myself to be neither, but rather someone in the middle (not convinced it was illegal...so I never wanted to scam...but not some ignorant bloke either who is just ready to throw his hard earned money away hoping to strike gold...so I'm not entirely clueless.) And neither do I ever want to deal with "poor clueless people"...whether through cash gifting or actual products/services...as I want to educate people in whatever they are involved in, so if they were clueless, they won't be any longer.

                            Bottom line, I don't want people throwing their money away...even if it is in my direction.
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                            • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
                              Bottom line, I don't want people throwing their money away...even if it is in my direction.
                              Well put.

                              You can even think of it like selling crap products... If you sell crap then people will hate you and your stuff... that means you can't sell them more stuff.

                              That's why I like to NOT sell crap. That way people buy MORE of my stuff. It's great!

                              This whole gifting thing keeps making me think of all those people I kept seeing when I was in the mortgage industry. Really desperate and willing to do anything. (I'm actually talking about many of the loan officers I worked with)

                              They'd tell people any story they could to get to the next close. Then the rates would adjust and the people who trusted them would lose their homes.

                              Not cool.

                              I'm just not seeing any difference here. It's all hype and hope where a few at the top cashing in and getting while the gettings good.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                              Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                              Well the FTC link was VERY interesting, and a first read for me, so thanks to both of you guys (Michael and Johnny) for the post.

                              By the way Michael, my comment about the question not being answered was intended for someone else all together, so my apologies. Blurry eyes I suppose...

                              To clear things up, I don't think those two things are the same (cash gifting programs vs. tangible products or services), and I most certainly see the difference...it's a big one. My issue was in presenting cash gifting (whether legal or not aside) and those involved with it as EITHER scammers or "poor clueless people". I considered myself to be neither, but rather someone in the middle (not convinced it was illegal...so I never wanted to scam...but not some ignorant bloke either who is just ready to throw his hard earned money away hoping to strike gold...so I'm not entirely clueless.) And neither do I ever want to deal with "poor clueless people"...whether through cash gifting or actual products/services...as I want to educate people in whatever they are involved in, so if they were clueless, they won't be any longer.

                              Bottom line, I don't want people throwing their money away...even if it is in my direction.
                              No problem, that stuff happens.

                              Does that mean no more cash gifting programs for you? Or will you find a way to justify why they are giving you money? Like, "Oh, they know what they are doing, so they understand the risk; therefore it is okay to take their money".

                              Just something to think about. I don't doubt that you have made money doing it, which may make it hard to say no the next time the opportunity presents itself.

                              ~Michael
                              Signature

                              "Ich bin en fuego!"
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                              • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                                Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                                No problem, that stuff happens.

                                Does that mean no more cash gifting programs for you? Or will you find a way to justify why they are giving you money? Like, "Oh, they know what they are doing, so they understand the risk; therefore it is okay to take their money".

                                Just something to think about. I don't doubt that you have made money doing it, which may make it hard to say no the next time the opportunity presents itself.

                                ~Michael
                                Well, let's just say I'm not as convinced as I once was. I believe if we lose our ethics, we lose what makes us human. I'm taking some time to look into a few more things, but will have to be making some very important decisions....I'll keep whomever is interested posted on the results!

                                I might already know what you will say, but what's your take on this article...

                                What the IRS States Regarding the Legality of Cash Gifting
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                                • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                                  Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                                  Well, let's just say I'm not as convinced as I once was. I believe if we lose our ethics, we lose what makes us human. I'm taking some time to look into a few more things, but will have to be making some very important decisions....I'll keep whomever is interested posted on the results!

                                  I might already know what you will say, but what's your take on this article...

                                  What the IRS States Regarding the Legality of Cash Gifting
                                  No problem. I just read it. The fatal leap of logic takes place right between paragraphs 2 and 3. They are trying to use the IRS code in relation to giving legitimate gifts. This is NOT the same as a gifting program. The author is trying to use those terms interchangably, and they are not.

                                  Furthermore they are advocating that people break tax laws, which is very scary. There is truth in the article, but it is used in conjunction with an illegal activity, it is confusing two separate issues.

                                  I do appreciate that you are trying to get more information. But, what could the possible motivation be for the author of said article to say cash gifting is legal? Answer: Their resource box spells it out loud and clear. They are promoting a cash gifting program. Not a big surprise, but consider the motives. Of course, they may believe what they are writing, but that doesn't make it true.

                                  Is it smarter to go to the source of the law, or to someone who has an interest in twisting the law? The portion of the FTC site quoted in this thread says it all. Go to the source. Remember, you COULD get sued. I truly hope you keep tracking down the truth - AND considering the source. I have no bested interest in speaking out against cash gifting, other than trying to help and rotect people who don't know any better. But the people who write articles like the one you point to do have a vested interest in getting people to believe their nonsense and half-truths.

                                  ~Michael
                                  Signature

                                  "Ich bin en fuego!"
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                        • Profile picture of the author Jelasco
                          Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                          I don't know, that seems a little pretentious. What about the poor soul who scrapes up $19.95 a month for a product ot service (which may be completely legit and even more valuable than the monthly fee) but still makes no profit. Can you live with yourself?
                          Yes, I could live just fine, because I'd be selling a *legal* product and if the buyer does not use it or cancel it, that is not my responsibility.

                          I've bought real estate books in stores but never did any deals- is that the authors' fault?

                          I've also had some memberships where I didn't use the content- my fault, not the site owners.
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                        • Originally Posted by dtcash7 View Post

                          I do feel sorry for any "clueless" person who gets duped, but...

                          If you EVER make any money in a deal like this, I hope you can live with yourself knowing that you have taken it directly from some poor soul who could probably not afford to lose it.

                          I don't know, that seems a little pretentious. What about the poor soul who scrapes up $19.95 a month for a product ot service (which may be completely legit and even more valuable than the monthly fee) but still makes no profit. Can you live with yourself? Perhaps you provide training. As do any good cash gifting program you participate in. I just don't see the difference, and hope we can all be consistent in our logic.

                          Even if it was legal, it would still be MORALLY wrong to fleece the poor bottom run people out of their money.

                          Saying that the people who participate in cash gifting are the bottom feeders is also taking it a little bit far in my opinion. I mean, does that same precedent hold to your services and opportunities? And if not, how is it different.

                          Help me open my eyes.
                          Well, you're making a somewhat ridiculous comparison. I sell products and services that will actually help people make money in a legitimate business. It's a world apart from someone giving you $500, $1000, or $10,000 and getting nothing but told to entice the same from the next poor soul.

                          Can I live with myself. Pardon me, but that's a silly question. Of course I can because I am doing something to help people LEGITIMATELY and through a business that doesn't leave a whole rung of people on the bottom of the ladder with empty pockets.

                          I did not say that people that participate in cash gifting are the bottom feeders, although some certainly are. Then there is a larger percentage, like yourself, that just don't see the true picture. This includes people who make some money from it and don't really think about where this money comes from and in some cases, do everything they can to rationalize what they are doing. I do feel a bit sad for those that can't see the truth, but especially so for the ones that get taken in on the bottom rungs of a program and lose their total investment, while those above them are so happy to receive the money of those who have been duped.

                          Barry
                          Signature

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                    • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                      Originally Posted by Michael Oksa View Post

                      Dude, you need to get out now.

                      If I want to give someone a gift, I'd run the other way if the made me sign one thing, much less two.

                      I would send it through the USPS, or any service I choose, not FedEx only.

                      And if I was sending someone a GIFT, you can bet it would be any amount I wanted. Not a minimum of $100.

                      Oh, and hope PayPal doesn't find out,because they will shut your account down immediately if they do. And they won't care that you signed something to cover your tracks.

                      Come on people. The justifications are nonsense.

                      It is not an argument for or against. It should be illegal. It is illegal. Stop being creative with your justifications and make some honest money.

                      An opinion is something that is not factual. My opinion is that anyone participating in cash gifting is stupid and/or greedy. BUT, they may be intelligent people that have fallen for it. See, that makes my thought that all cash gifters are stupid just an opinion.

                      The FTC says it is illegal. That is a fact. Not an opinion.

                      Cash gifting is illegal.

                      These programs try to twist the IRS rules on gift giving. I hope every cash gifter gets caught - and gets punishe to the full extent of the law. Every one of them. Yeah, I know, there are innocent people that get caught up in these things. Sorry, but ignorance is no excuse when it comes to breaking the law. Crack down and crack down hard - on every one and you can bet it will be a long time before anyone falls for this steaming pile of refuse again.

                      Cash gifting is illegal. That means it is against the law. The prisons are full of people who were innocent, or felt justified in their crimes - that doesn't make it legal.

                      ~Michael

                      Forgive my ignorance, but maybe I just missed it. Where does the FTC say it is illegal?
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                      • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
                        Forgive my ignorance, but maybe I just missed it. Where does the FTC say it is illegal?
                        check the thread for quite a few links to various websites where you can see where they say it's illegal.

                        Here... just found some good ones:

                        This is the old post:
                        http://www.warriorforum.com/forum/to...65&whichpage=2

                        Here's the FTC:
                        http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../giftalrt.shtm

                        I'll quote the page so you don't have to click, but from the looks of things this has been totally bad juju for just shy of ever

                        From The FTC Website:
                        The Gifting Club "Gotcha"
                        When is a gift not a gift? When it’s a "gotcha."

                        In a scam spreading throughout the mid-Atlantic states and the Pacific Northwest, people pay to join a "gifting club," billed in promotional materials as a private club with members eager to help new friends -- often from within their own neighborhood or church group.

                        In reality, the clubs are illegal pyramid schemes. New club members give cash "gifts" to the highest-ranking club members, with titles such as "captains." And they’re promised that if they get additional members to join the club, they, too, will rise to become captains and receive money – far more than they initially paid to join the club -- from newer club "friends."

                        The problem is that, like most pyramid schemes, illegal gifting clubs must continually recruit ever-increasing numbers of members to survive. When the clubs don’t attract enough new members, they collapse. Most members who paid to join the clubs never receive the financial "gifts" they expected, and lose everything they paid to join the club.
                        Don’t Get on the Receiving End of a Gifting Club "Gotcha"

                        Promises of quick, easy money can be a powerful lure – especially when it comes with the additional benefit of new friendships.

                        If you’re approached about joining a club but you aren’t sure if it’s an illegal gifting club, the Federal Trade Commission reminds you to:

                        * Consider that a legitimate gift has no strings attached and is not an "investment."
                        * Avoid being misled into thinking a gifting club is legitimate because the ads say that members consider their payments a gift and expect nothing in return. This is an attempt to make an illegal transaction look legal.
                        * Be wary of success stories or testimonials of tremendous payoffs. Very few members of illegal gifting clubs or pyramid schemes ever receive any money.
                        * Take your time. Don’t buckle under to a high-pressure sales pitch that requires you to join immediately or risk losing out on the opportunity. Remember, solid opportunities – and solid friendships – aren’t formed through nerve-wracking tactics.

                        To File a Complaint

                        If you’ve been victimized by a gifting club promoter, contact your local consumer protection agency, state attorney general and Better Business Bureau.

                        The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters consumer complaints into the Consumer Sentinel Network, a secure online database and investigative tool used by hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
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                        • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                          Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

                          check the thread for quite a few links to various websites where you can see where they say it's illegal.

                          Here... just found some good ones:

                          This is the old post:
                          The Warrior Forum - Cash Gifting? $$ Scam or genius???

                          Here's the FTC:
                          The Gifting Club "Gotcha"

                          I'll quote the page so you don't have to click, but from the looks of things this has been totally bad juju for just shy of ever

                          If it was not being promoted as a non-taxable "gift" would it still be considered illegal? I mean, let's say a person filed with the IRS every "gift" they receive?
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                • Profile picture of the author jdockins
                  I had an experience with Cash Gifting 10 years ago. All I can say is if you're
                  thinking about doing it...think again, especially if you are going to get friends involved.
                  This scam works in theory but in reality ends up causing alot of folks to lose money and
                  friends. You just have to decide which is more important to you?
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                  • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                    Originally Posted by jdockins View Post

                    I had an experience with Cash Gifting 10 years ago. All I can say is if you're
                    thinking about doing it...think again, especially if you are going to get friends involved.
                    This scam works in theory but in reality ends up causing alot of folks to lose money and
                    friends. You just have to decide which is more important to you?
                    Thanks for the warning, and I agree that whatever you do in life, you should give due diligence to understanding what you are involved in. I wonder sometimes if when people refer to cash gifting though, they all have different definitions, and are referencing different things altogether.

                    I was wondering if you would mind sharing more specific details. What were the details - as best you can share - in your "cash gifting" experience?

                    The way I see it, people don't "lose" any money if they give it away as just that, a gift.

                    And another note of interest, my advice to any and all...family, friends, and money are often times a dangerous combination. Keep your million dollar Internet ventures to yourself and your family and friends out of it...my humble opinion.
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                • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                  There's a simple question you should ask yourself about any scheme you see:

                  Does this method provide a truly valuable product or service to benefit the end user.

                  If it doesn't even if you make money instead of losing your shirt (which is the most likely result) then you're a parasite and it's just a matter of time before you do get stung by a smart conman.

                  Kindest regards,
                  Andrew Cavanagh
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                  • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
                    So, here's my story...

                    I have been involved in Internet Marketing, affiliate programs and the like for several years now on and off...successful but no million dollars yet. A few months back I really started hearing a lot about cash gifting and seeing all these FedEx videos. So the whole money in a magazine thing was really weird to me, but it looked interesting and I decided to check further into it. I've read a lot of opinions either way. Some adamantly claim it is legal. Others just as sincerely claim it's not.

                    Here's my question...If the documents are signed, stating that this actually IS a GIFT, how can anyone take legal action against that?

                    Now, I must say (don't crucify me) but I am involved in cash gifting. No packages in the mail though. It's all PayPal. However, there are two forms to fill out - a statement of gifting and a non-solicitation forms. The particular program that I am involved in claims that it is not a ponzi, matrix, pyramid, or whatever. Either I'm not as knowledgeable on the definitions as I thought, or I'm getting lost in semantics.

                    The lowest gifting level is $100, and it follows a 1-up structure - meaning the first gift you receive is "up-ed" to your Inviter, and all gifts thereafter from those whom you invite are yours to to do with as you wish. So, I don't see the pyramid here, as no one is at the ultimate top getting rich, but again, perhaps I'm missing something. I just know cash gifting has been a blessing to me.

                    I will also say though, I don't want to participate in something illegal. I can't do that in good conscious, and would hope no one could. However, I'm just not convinced. It's almost like politics or religion - everyone says they're right, but c'mon...

                    So, I'll stop my rambling and repeat my question...a legitimate question too, as I really want to know...If the documents are signed, stating that this actually IS a GIFT, how can anyone take legal action against that?

                    Have a great day!
                    dtcash7,

                    The only thing I can say is "Get out now and run like crazy"

                    You may also want to check on the 1st page of this post for the fellow who refunded people out of his own pocket. It may be the only ethical way to step back if you're received funds.

                    Please also check the links many other warriors have provided which lead to news stories of people who have been totally nailed for this.

                    I'll get back to my "I could Skin 15 people.... steal their wallets and make $4000" comment.

                    Let's say each of those 15 people signed a contract saying it was totally cool with them to be skinned and robbed. That contract could be notarized and even printed on high-quality paper with an uber-legal looking emblem stamped on the top...

                    Do you think the argument "Well, they DID sign a contract" would even enter into the legal proceedings? Hell no! I would be tossed into the deepest, darkest hole this country has to offer and NEVER see the light of day.

                    Same holds true with CashGifting. Check the links other folks have provided in this post. You can see where the Federal government (and the governments of other fine countries) have strictly prohibited this form of financial tomfoolery.

                    It's a scam. It's a con. It's not a "gift" if you first have to solicit the giver via spamvertisment.

                    You seem like a smart dude from the tone of your comments and questions... you did your due diligence but it would appear not quite enough. I totally get how the allure of "free money" can consume a persons subconscious... I seriously do get it.

                    But it's in those moments of desperation and need where who we are comes out and really shines. I'm not saying your a bad person, I'm saying you made a bad decision. Get out now. If you're playing this game with PayPal how long do you think it'll be before they catch on and shut you down?

                    PayPal is a dangerous mistress... she's your best friend when times are good but if you turn your back and/or scorn her... one day you'll come home to find the locks have been changed and all your shit's been sold at auction.

                    Even if it's YOUR house.

                    Get out. Run. Don't do it again.
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                    • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
                      Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

                      dtcash7,

                      The only thing I can say is "Get out now and run like crazy"

                      You may also want to check on the 1st page of this post for the fellow who refunded people out of his own pocket. It may be the only ethical way to step back if you're received funds.

                      Please also check the links many other warriors have provided which lead to news stories of people who have been totally nailed for this.

                      I'll get back to my "I could Skin 15 people.... steal their wallets and make $4000" comment.

                      Let's say each of those 15 people signed a contract saying it was totally cool with them to be skinned and robbed. That contract could be notarized and even printed on high-quality paper with an uber-legal looking emblem stamped on the top...

                      Do you think the argument "Well, they DID sign a contract" would even enter into the legal proceedings? Hell no! I would be tossed into the deepest, darkest hole this country has to offer and NEVER see the light of day.

                      Same holds true with CashGifting. Check the links other folks have provided in this post. You can see where the Federal government (and the governments of other fine countries) have strictly prohibited this form of financial tomfoolery.

                      It's a scam. It's a con. It's not a "gift" if you first have to solicit the giver via spamvertisment.

                      You seem like a smart dude from the tone of your comments and questions... you did your due diligence but it would appear not quite enough. I totally get how the allure of "free money" can consume a persons subconscious... I seriously do get it.

                      But it's in those moments of desperation and need where who we are comes out and really shines. I'm not saying your a bad person, I'm saying you made a bad decision. Get out now. If you're playing this game with PayPal how long do you think it'll be before they catch on and shut you down?

                      PayPal is a dangerous mistress... she's your best friend when times are good but if you turn your back and/or scorn her... one day you'll come home to find the locks have been changed and all your shit's been sold at auction.

                      Even if it's YOUR house.

                      Get out. Run. Don't do it again.



                      Just a few comments...

                      (1) For me personally, I have trouble equating cash gifting with skinning people...lol. However, I 100% agree with your logic. Just because someones "agrees" to do something illegal, does not make it acceptable. I'm just still trying to determine why cash gifting - IF DONE WITHIN CERTAIN GUIDELINES - is illegal. And that's the hold-up for me, as I see certain guidelines that - again, IF FOLLOWED - make cash gifting perfectly acceptable.

                      Now don't get me wrong, I understand that not all cash gifting activities are done ethically, but does that really negate the whole activity itself? If a person understands these guidelines, and agrees to them (via signed documents and what not) and then follows those procedures/guidelines/ rules as they are setup, I am seeing nothing illegal.

                      However, I'm still looking around at those news stories for more information. My perception though is that sometimes when people refer to cash gifting, they may or may not be talking about the same thing, as there seems to be different forms of it...some forms which I totally see are illegal. I don't know if that makes any sense or not.


                      (2) You said "It's not a "gift" if you first have to solicit the giver via spamvertisment." My question...what if don't have to spam the giver? What if they visit your site, say through organic search engine results, and actually initiate the giving with you? Does that change anything as far as the legality?


                      (3) Lastly, is the bottom line people believe this to be illegal because the money is not filed as taxable income?

                      Thanks for the response as I don't care so much about arguing as I do having legitimate discussions.

                      Take care.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tirmizi
                  its one of those " get rich quick" scams, you might get lucky to get paid in the begining which my tempt you to go further in the game and eventually you lose and lose big time. its a wastage of time and money
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                • Profile picture of the author ibuildlinks
                  is this another scam?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
                    Originally Posted by ibuildlinks View Post

                    is this another scam?
                    you didn't read the thread?
                    Signature

                    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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                    • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
                      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ut-giving.html

                      Got a live one!

                      Seems this thread was sent to the fellow who sent me that original gifting site. Got an angry email this morning. (hehehehehe!)

                      I found out about him originally after I bought this insane craigslist posting software. He was in the support forum and had his phone # listed. Called the guy to get clarification on what exactly was going on with all that.

                      3000 spam posts per DAY to craigs using this tool! All the posts are pushing this gifting stuff. It's really sad that's the way he's doing business. Causes perfectly cool sites to crack down on everyone for the moron behavior of a few.
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                • Profile picture of the author alertinvestor
                  Giving cash to people in need or charities is one thing...joining a gifting club with the purpose of getting back your initial investment plus more is nothing more than a pyramid scheme.

                  I personally know of two people who had to return $20,000 in order to stay out of jail. They were members of a cash gifting dinner club.

                  If it is too good to be true...
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            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              Originally Posted by Floyd Fisher View Post

              Are you part of a chain where the guy at the top benefits? Or are you giving gifts to charities, families, and friends?

              If you're the former, you're a scam artist. If you're the latter, I humbly apologize.

              The latter.

              No need to apologize. I was just being a wise a$$.
              Signature
              "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
              ~ Zig Ziglar
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      • Profile picture of the author Jelasco
        Originally Posted by zach2393 View Post

        Alot of work...it's like affiliate marketing but with sums of 500 1500 and 3000.
        You give one person one of the sums, than your first referral gives your referer there first sums. Than your next referral gives you the money and there reffer gives you there money.
        If a group of people is just passing money around, there only seem to be 2 possible outcomes:
        1. Some people have a net gain, others a net loss (most likely)
        2. Everyone breaks even.

        Notice what is missing? The scenario where everyone gains.

        Explain that.
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        • Profile picture of the author Joel
          One other sign on an "opportunity" that it is probably illegal is the the required use of FedEx. They require that to try & bypass U.S. Post Office & federal regulations.
          Signature

          "Without data or facts, you are just another person with an opinion"

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          • Profile picture of the author macchiavelli
            I made a bunch of money with 12dailypro and it was good while it lasted.
            Untill they couldnt pay out anymore and people on the bottom got pissed and started suing.
            Stay far away from chain/pyramid type stuff.

            Their bad news in the long run and are not scalable.
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            • Profile picture of the author 2bwealthy
              i am on a person's list that has made over 250k this year alone. they claim that giving a cash gift is legal.... only legal if no strings are attached but the assumption here is that the person who is giving the gift is now eligble to receive a cash gift themselves. i have seen some "programs" that have levels from $500 to $3500. the level you pay in is the max you can receive from someone. I have seen this called leveraging vs gifting.

              I have received emails from several peoeple on this. wouldnt touch it with a 10ft pole.
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              • Profile picture of the author jstover77
                Banned
                It is amazing to me how popular cash gifting actually is these days. Roughly 60% to 70% of my clients are in business opportunities, and out of that I would say 50% are in cash gifting. I speak to many who are making 10k to 20K up to 100K per month doing it. For the most part the majority of them are left out to dry, wondering why they ever sent $500 to $3,500 via FEDEX to someone they did not know.
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            • Profile picture of the author p4t
              Banned
              [DELETED]
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  • I actually had a rather long term Warrior "invite" me to listen to a phone conference type of thing that was all about this type of thing. This Warrior claimed this is how he made most of his money. Unbelievable. I suspect this is what is meant my a Ponzi scheme, right?

    Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

    What in the name of all that's holy is Cash Gifting?!?!

    This cannot be in any way legal.

    Had a guy yesterday send me a link to a video site talking all about how people are sending FedEx envelopes full of money. I'm not kidding, I got paranoid "The Man" would kick down my door just for having watched this freakish thing... (Cleaning my history as I type)

    Seriously, this cannot be legal and no I'm not going to post the link. It's too evil.
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    • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
      It's got to be something like that... the video talked about how it wasn't a "Pyramid" but rather a "horizontal giving line". Where the person who joins under you pays you... passes on one of their downline payments and then moves to the head of the line.

      It just sounds horrifying. Seriously bad stuff.

      Does anyone have any info on people getting smacked for this? Not that I want to try it... I tend to stay away from stuff that makes my teeth itch on contact.
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      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
        Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

        It's got to be something like that... the video talked about how it wasn't a "Pyramid" but rather a "horizontal giving line". Where the person who joins under you pays you... passes on one of their downline payments and then moves to the head of the line.

        It just sounds horrifying. Seriously bad stuff.

        Does anyone have any info on people getting smacked for this? Not that I want to try it... I tend to stay away from stuff that makes my teeth itch on contact.
        RC_Gifting2

        http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/RC_DamselGift.html
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      • Profile picture of the author Jo_Shua
        Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

        "Pyramid" but rather a "horizontal giving line"
        If any company, website, or so called system has to come out and say: "We are not a Ponzi or Pyramid scheme! We are such and such!"

        Then Run Away And Never Look Back!!
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        • Profile picture of the author 2bwealthy
          some great info from other site: sorry for being a little long......
          ---------------------------------------------
          FRANCHISE INVESTMENT LAW (EXCERPT)
          Act 269 of 1974

          445.1528 Pyramid or chain promotion or distribution.

          Sec. 28.

          (1) A person may not offer or sell any form of participation in a pyramid or chain promotion. A pyramid or chain promotion is any plan or scheme or device by which (a) a participant gives a valuable consideration for the opportunity to receive compensation or things of value in return for inducing other persons to become participants in the program or (b) a participant is to receive compensation when a person introduced by the participant introduces one or more additional persons into participation in the plan, each of whom receives the same or similar right, privilege, license, chance, or opportunity.

          (2) A pyramid or chain promotion is declared to be illegal and against the public policy of the state. Any contract made in violation of this section is voidable at the sole option of the purchaser.

          -----------------------------------
          Maine Attorney General:

          QUOTE
          This office has received many calls from people who have participated in one of the "gifting" pyramids that in the last few years have swept over the state of Maine. These pyramids have taken such names as Changing Lives, NASCAR, A Woman's Project and other names. These "gifting" schemes are illegal pyramids and the Attorney General has gone to court to stop them. Only the persons who reach the top of these quickly multiplying pyramids will receive money. All others will lose their money because the pool of possible recruits will quickly run dry. Further, organizers of these schemes often use deceptive sales pitches to entice new recruits (for example, "It's perfectly legal;" or "It's a gift so you do not owe taxes;" or "If you ever want to drop out, we guarantee that you will get back your money").

          A recent Superior Court's decision in State v. Chad Beauchere, et al., d/b/a Changing Lives, No. CV-01-03 (Me. Super. Ct., Kenn. Cty., Feb. 4, 2003) describes why these "gifting" pyramids quickly exhaust potential new recruits ( e.g., by the 20th level 4,194,304 new recruits are needed to keep the pyramid growing) and how much money is quickly lost (e.g., when it costs $2,000 to join, if the pyramid collapses by the 21st level then $14,680,064,000.00 is lost). Of course, such pyramids never come close to the 21st level. They fail much more quickly. Here is the Court's conclusion:

          The Changing Lives pyramid scheme is an extremely damaging illusion because the need for new recruits will quickly exhaust the pool of available investors, with the result that many persons will lose their $2,000 payments. This Court finds that Changing Lives participants who (1) reach the Senior position and (2) obtain money from new recruits have participated in a fundraising pyramid that is inherently unfair and deceptive and are in violation of both the Maine Unfair Trade Practices Act, 5 M.R.S.A. § 207, and the civil portion of the State's Anti-Pyramid Statute, 17 M.R.S.A. § 2305, which makes participation in such pyramids a per se civil violation of the UTPA.

          In addition to finding the Changing Lives pyramids in violation of the Maine Unfair Trade Practices Act, the court also ordered restitution and civil penalties.
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          --"Gifting programs--stay away!--appears in Network Marketing Business Journal, March 2006, Volume 21 Issue 3 on page 12.
          Gifting Programs – Stay Away!

          By: Gerald Nehra, Attorney at Law

          This issue may be off the radar for now, but do not let down your guard. I do not need to say much more about gifting programs than to quote legal documents from grand juries, prosecutors, and district attorney's across the United States. Everything below came from such documents. I am only going to identify the states the quotes came from, and not actually name any programs, as the purpose of this article is not to attack any specific program, but to alert the reader to the inherit flaws and risks of gifting programs in general. There is NO WAY these programs can be "legalized" as legitimate direct selling programs. If you believe you should be allowed to give your money to anyone you choose, that is only true up to a point. The Regulators and prosecutors define the "point" (after which a law id broken) as the program designed expectation that you will get back more that you gave. STAY AWAY.

          1) Two local residents allegedly involved in a gifting club that was promoted locally this summer made initial court appearances on Wednesday. ABC and DEF were both charged with felonies in connection with what law enforcement officials call a pyramid scheme. The next step in both cases is an arraignment during which they will enter pleas. Dates have yet to be set. The pyramid scheme involved recruiting people to invest $2,000 with the lure of a $16,000 return -- the original $2,000 and $14,000 profit. ABC was charged with three felonies -- selling unregistered securities, transacting business as an unregistered broker-dealer, and fraud. All are Class 4 felonies, each punishable by up to 10 years in prison and/or up to a $10,000 fine. She is free on a $5,000 personal recognizance bond. DEF was also charged with selling unregistered securities, and theft by deception. The latter is a Class 1 misdemeanor, punishable by a year in jail and/or up to a $1,000 fine.

          From South Dakota – a Grand Jury Indictment is being quoted.

          2) Last month, the administrator of the department issued an order to cease and desist against a money exchange program. Participants initially were solicited to pool cash gifts of $100 to join and to advance through various levels or a reverse pyramid through the recruitment of others who likewise made gifts. The levels of the program were described as freshman, sophomore, junior and senior. Participants were encouraged to complete the program's six steps. The amounts required to participate in each of the six steps ranged from $100 to $4,000. After completing six levels, participants made gifts of $7,850 in expectation of receiving "tax free" cash payments of $62,800.

          From an Oklahoma Cease & Desist Order

          3) A Danville grand jury has indicted 14 more people accused of participating in a pyramid scheme that swept across Southside Virginia earlier this year. Eight of the people indicted last week have been summoned to appear for arraignment Friday. In February, Danville police and the Pittsylvania County Sheriff's Office began to track down participants in an operation that recruited groups of eight people to "donate" $2,000 each and "cash out" with $16,000 once they reached the top of the list. Some participants were said to have made as much as $100,000. Pittsylvania County Commonwealth's Attorney defined the program as a pyramid scheme, in which participation is a misdemeanor punishable by 12 months in jail and a fine of $2,500.

          From a Danville, Virginia Grand Jury Indictment

          4) A Clay County Circuit Judge today ordered eight Kansas City area women to pay a total of $198,000 in restitution and penalties for their participation in an illegal pyramid scheme. Last week another Judge granted a motion for summary judgment by Attorney General Jay Nixon and entered a finding that the program was an illegal pyramid under Missouri law. Today's judgments conclude two lawsuits brought by Nixon against promoters of an illegal pyramid scheme. Additional lawsuits in Clay County, against defendants in connection with the program, and in St. Louis County against defendants in connection with the program, are still pending. Nixon said the operators of the program called it a "gifting tree" or "gifting network." The scheme often took the form of a four-course dinner party, with participants entering at the "appetizer" level and paying $5,000 to the person at the top, or "dessert" level. Appetizer-level participants move up to the "soup & salad," "entree" and "dessert" levels as more participants are recruited at the lowest level. Nixon said these and the number of levels may vary from scheme to scheme. "This order from the court declaring this to be a pyramid serves as a clear and unambiguous notice that these schemes are illegal, and that anyone who participates in them is breaking the law," Nixon said.

          From a Liberty, Missouri Judicial Order

          5) More than 1,000 people involved in illegal "gifting clubs" have applied for amnesty from prosecution, state officials say. However, when the deadline for seeking amnesty passes next weekend, district attorneys across the state will start preparing to file charges against those who have taken part in the pyramid scheme. Under the amnesty program, people who received money from others in "gifting clubs" have until Dec. 31 to return the cash and cooperate with investigators by naming names. Those who refuse could be charged with violating the state's gaming and pyramid scheme laws. The maximum penalty for that crime is $5,000 and five years in prison. Officials at the state Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection began to hear complaints last summer from residents who said they were led to believe that by giving someone $500 or $2,000 to get on a gift board, they would receive up to eight times that amount. In the gifting clubs, a new variation of the old pyramid schemes, participants simply "give" gifts to each other. While most participants are told they should not expect anything in return for their gift of $500 or $2,000, those who give money are clearly anticipating they will be reciprocated by others who join the "club" after them. "A pyramid scheme is nothing more than a very expensive game of musical chairs," said Bill Oemichen, administrator of the Division of Trade and Consumer Protection. "When the music is over, most people have lost $2,000 and are angry at the person who recruited them."

          From the Wisconsin Consumer Protection Agency

          6) Missouri and Wisconsin have obtained orders halting the operation of two gifting clubs. Wisconsin alleged that the defendants, GHI and JKL Corp. sold improper legal opinions to consumers advising them that gifting clubs are legal. GHI was not a licensed attorney. Missouri filed suit against MNO and PQR alleging that they gave 25 presentations to induce others to participate in their program. Missouri already has orders halting the operation of several gifting clubs.

          From Missouri & Wisconsin reports

          7) Sacramento sheriff's detectives Wednesday arrested four women, alleging they took in hundreds of thousands of dollars by promoting a pyramid scheme and secretly cheating in the "gifting" club marketed as empowering to women.

          From a Sacramento, California arrest record

          8) In New Mexico a gifting program setup resulted in four grand jury criminal indictments. More than 400 people who bought into the New Mexico scheme have applied to get at least some of their money back through a restitution program that may let those who profited avoid prison time.

          From a New Mexico Grand Jury Indictment

          9) James Walsh, author of You Can't Cheat an Honest Man: How Ponzi Schemes and Pyramids Work and Why They're More Popular Than Ever, (Available at Amazon.com) calls these gifting programs by their true name: pyramid schemes, a transfer of capital not based on any profit-earning activity. For each investor to recoup money, two more must join the club. "Generally, these schemes signal a growing gulf between the haves and have-nots," says Walsh. "One of the dangers of the dot.com bubble was that it de-linked notions of real value with compensation. When the unsophisticated investor lost in the downfall, he decided the whole system was a crooked scheme anyhow, so this little party isn't any worse than eToys." The tide, however, is turning. In 2003, club busts and pending charges have been reported in California, Hawaii, Oregon, North Carolina, Maine, Iowa, Pennsylvania, Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico. In addition to seeking the usual criminal penalties, some prosecutors want club sponsors to make restitution to the victims. But the chances are slim that the once-enthusiastic club members will ever get their money back. The best defense, Walsh maintains, is to avoid forking over the dough in the first place, despite the friendships involved. "Ask, 'What is the business?' What are we selling? Recognize that 'networking opportunities' is not a commodity," he reminds. "Don't accept the gibberish about the new economy and the velocity of money. Keep asking, 'What's the underlying transaction?"

          Quotes from Author, James Walsh.
          ~~~~~

          To wrap up, direct selling is an incredibly effective channel of distribution, going as far back as the early Avon, Fuller Brush, Vacuum Cleaner, and Encyclopedia business models. The channel was enhanced and changed forever in the 1950's, when companies began offering their independent contractors two ways to make money. They were offered a financial incentive, obtainable through their own sales efforts, and also an additional and optional financial incentive, obtainable through the sales efforts of other independent contractors they introduced to the company. Do not let illegal pyramids, of which gifting clubs are but one form, tarnish and jeopardize this rewarding, and very legal, business model for delivering products and services to North American consumers.

          About the author: Gerald P. Nehra is an MLM-specialist, private practice attorney. He is one of only a few attorneys nationwide whose practice is devoted exclusively to direct selling and multilevel marketing issues. His 35 years of legal experience includes nine years at Amway Corporation, where he was Director of the Legal Division. He can be reached at 1710 Beach Street, Muskegon, Michigan 49441, 231-755-3800 . His e-mail address is GNehra@mlmatty.com . You are invited to visit his web site at MLMAttorney MLM MultiLevel Marketing Attorney MLM Lawyer Direct Selling Attorney.
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      • Profile picture of the author sylviad
        Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

        It's got to be something like that... the video talked about how it wasn't a "Pyramid" but rather a "horizontal giving line". Where the person who joins under you pays you... passes on one of their downline payments and then moves to the head of the line.

        It just sounds horrifying. Seriously bad stuff.

        Does anyone have any info on people getting smacked for this? Not that I want to try it... I tend to stay away from stuff that makes my teeth itch on contact.
        So... what, exactly, are you buying? There is no product or service. That makes it illegal. As someone pointed out, it's the chain letter modified. You mail $1 onto the next recipient on the list and in time, you're supposed to "earn" thousands of dollars back. It's nonsense. Use your talents wisely elsewhere.

        Sylvia
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        • Profile picture of the author Noel2010
          These schemes will never go away. I think those travel clubs are still around.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
      Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

      I actually had a rather long term Warrior "invite" me to listen to a phone conference type of thing that was all about this type of thing. This Warrior claimed this is how he made most of his money. Unbelievable. I suspect this is what is meant my a Ponzi scheme, right?

      Well Angela....I did read on the other thread that you are in with
      the Secret Service...so you should know!

      Did you have the wire taps going on that call?

      Sean
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      • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
        Yes... there was a loooooong post about this a while ago. Many opinions were stated regarding cash gifting. It sounds a bit fishy to me. But... that's just my opinion.
        Does anyone have it laying around? I'd love to read.
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      • Originally Posted by The IM Reporter View Post

        Well Angela....I did read on the other thread that you are in with
        the Secret Service...so you should know!

        Did you have the wire taps going on that call?

        Sean
        Hee! Nah...I only helped the Secret Service with counterfeit money stuff. :p
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        • Profile picture of the author Treece
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        • Profile picture of the author Dick Doe
          Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

          Hee! Nah...I only helped the Secret Service with counterfeit money stuff. :p
          You might get a good job in India or Bangladesh, Angela. There are loads of counterfeit money there.:p
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          • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
            Originally Posted by Dick Doe View Post

            You might get a good job in India or Bangladesh, Angela. There are loads of counterfeit money there.:p
            Don't forget about Nigeria
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            • Originally Posted by The IM Reporter View Post

              Don't forget about Nigeria
              In all seriousness, Nigeria is where the counterfeit notes came from in the case I helped with.
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              • Profile picture of the author mdunn123
                Nope....not legal and has been around for years....

                Too bad I actually thought about it seriously when I was about 18. lol
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              • Profile picture of the author Sean A McAlister
                Originally Posted by Angela V. Edwards View Post

                In all seriousness, Nigeria is where the counterfeit notes came from in the case I helped with.

                Angela you are my hero...one crime fighting Warrior..
                remind me never to get on your bad side...
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                • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
                  I noticed a very strong trend among most of the "gifting circles" I've started looking at... they all use FedEx.

                  I'm thinking this may be simply because if they used the US Post office they could be nailed with Mail Fraud.

                  Thoughts on this?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                    Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

                    I noticed a very strong trend among most of the "gifting circles" I've started looking at... they all use FedEx.

                    I'm thinking this may be simply because if they used the US Post office they could be nailed with Mail Fraud.

                    Thoughts on this?
                    That makes perfect sense to me.

                    I remember Mark Cuban telling a story about making money in college with chain letters. He said there were days when all he would do is go to his mail box and retrieve bunches of envelopes with $1 in them.

                    I've never been compelled to try it though. Too much uncertainty and waiting.
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                    "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                    ~ Zig Ziglar
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                • Originally Posted by The IM Reporter View Post

                  Angela you are my hero...one crime fighting Warrior..
                  remind me never to get on your bad side...
                  LOL! How can you get on my bad side...you look like my old boss, who happened to be a great boss.
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          • Originally Posted by Dick Doe View Post

            You might get a good job in India or Bangladesh, Angela. There are loads of counterfeit money there.:p
            LOL! I did my "stint" as an undercover agent. I'd actually rather just watch that sort of thing on Law and Order. It always WAS my favorite show. Never thought I'd ever actually be 'wearing a wire'. :p
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      • Profile picture of the author Todd Walker
        The Honest Truth about Cash Gifting is...

        It works...

        For the top 10%...

        In a perfect society, where everyone follows the rules of the pyramid and does exactly what you are suppose to do, everyone will win

        However, since the person under you does nothing, you won't get a big return, they will lose their money and the whole thing eventually falls apart.

        If you are the creator of a cash gifting scheme you will make millions, and then get sued from the 1,000's on the bottom tier... um... 12dailypro anyone... Stormpay...

        But scary thing is it works, millions are made.... 1,000's lose
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        • Profile picture of the author Dick Doe
          Thanks for the information.

          Originally Posted by Todd Walker View Post

          The Honest Truth about Cash Gifting is...

          It works...

          For the top 10%...

          In a perfect society, where everyone follows the rules of the pyramid and does exactly what you are suppose to do, everyone will win

          However, since the person under you does nothing, you won't get a big return, they will lose their money and the whole thing eventually falls apart.

          If you are the creator of a cash gifting scheme you will make millions, and then get sued from the 1,000's on the bottom tier... um... 12dailypro anyone... Stormpay...

          But scary thing is it works, millions are made.... 1,000's lose
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          • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
            If you are the creator of a cash gifting scheme you will make millions, and then get sued from the 1,000's on the bottom tier... um... 12dailypro anyone... Stormpay...
            I can soooo see that. Stormpay? I had a kid on my list tell me he was getting into that. At the time "cash gifting" hadn't hit my vocabulary but I was instantly horrified.

            They went down? Not surprised. I'm reading the old post now and even on the "legal" side it seems to be not quite pulling it. Sorry if I'm offending people who are into this but it sounds too much like a complete scam.

            Granted, I've done my fair share of above board marketing and even some "gray hat" stuff... but to offer people a shot at getting envelopes filled with money... Holy crap no!

            Who was that outfit using PayPal to run this same type of deal? Had all these lego looking people icons standing in the now infamous Pyramid format...
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            • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
              There we go! This is from the old post... my curiosity is now satisfied! (nasty cash gifters with their cons and their schemes...)

              I don't know how you can state that quotes from the FTC are opinion.

              As a retired attorney what I find most appalling about those promoting
              these gifting programs is that they misrepresent the tax code to "prove" to their disciples that "gifting" is legal

              Of course there is nothing illegal about giving a gift. You can give gifts in any amount you want. The IRS simply determines the tax consequences.

              The fact that you must pay to join these programs, by definition, makes it not a gift. You can call it a private program or anything you want, and you can have people sign a paper that the money they are giving is a gift. That does not change the reality that all of these "gifters" are engaged in a money making venture.

              When you end up in court, whether criminal court, small claims court (when one of your gifters decides they want their "investment" back) or tax court (when you get nailed for not reporting the income from your gifting business) you will be judged by your actions. The fact that you have a piece of paper that says it is a gift will be meaningless. Your actions will show otherwise. Every website that promotes gifting does so as a way to make money.

              As you say above, "you must market just like anything else." Like any other business, yes.

              Since these gifters tell people that they are not engaged in business, many people are going to find themselves in huge heaps of trouble with the IRS as well.

              The fact that you are receiving cash, does not make it untraceable. FedEx keeps records. It is not hard to find out how many of these envelopes were delivered to your home. Ask anyone who has been audited and you will learn that if there are 3 levels of "gifts" (hint: real gifts are not made in "specific" required amounts) the IRS will assume that every envelope contained the maximum.

              Gifting has been around for ages, but in the past it was mostly done between friends, so chances were great that even if a friend lost money, they would not be inclined to go to court or the authorities. Now, with all the advertising on the internet, that is not true.

              It is only a matter of time before many people will be facing dire consequences. Do you want to play a part in improving lives or destroying them?

              There are so many legitimate ways to make money online, I just find it mind boggling that so many people are willing to take these huge risks and encourage others to do so as well. (From Robyn8243)
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              • Profile picture of the author jcoolbaugh
                Here's from the FTC's website:

                The Gifting Club "Gotcha"

                Bad stuff, no way around it.
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                veni, addidicī, vici.
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                • Profile picture of the author B3n
                  100% illegal in the UK. In fact, if you just promote a cash gifting scheme in the UK you can expect as much as a £5,000 fine and up to 52 weeks in prison - whether you make any money or not.

                  I got an email yesterday from a UK internet marketer who was promoting this rubbish - after a quick buck from the more stupid of the population.

                  Thought about pointing out to him the consequences of his actions but decided against it.

                  If you promote something like this then you aren't to be trusted - simple as that.

                  Any idiot can see this kind of scheme is completely flawed and the vast majority of participants will lose lots of money. That's why it's illegal in the UK (and probably in most other countries).
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                • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
                  Originally Posted by jcoolbaugh View Post

                  Here's from the FTC's website:

                  The Gifting Club "Gotcha"

                  Bad stuff, no way around it.
                  I think this explains it all.
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                  • Profile picture of the author seasoned
                    It is simply a PONZI scheme! In fact, PONZI is denigrated by these CHEAP knockoffs. From what I understand, PONZI at least STARTED legit! "Cash gifting" sites never were.

                    Steve
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              • Profile picture of the author adamv
                --it wasn't a "Pyramid" but rather a "horizontal giving line".--

                That just sounds like a new twist on an old scam. Run away as fast as you can and don't look back.

                A few years ago in my local area, Sacramento CA, there was a gifting scheme called women helping women. This one wasn't your typical send $5 to everyone on the list and add your name to the bottom thing. This one was more like put up $5,000 to get in.

                Even though the entry fee was substantially higher the premise was the same, this was an illegal pyramid scheme or ponzi scheme. The few at the top of the pyramid make all the money off of the masses at the bottom.

                Ultimatley more than 20 women in the Sacramento area were arrested. These women were not your typical scam artists either. Many of them were considered pillars of the community. We're talking about business women, nurses, teachers, even lawyers (how could they not know this was illegal?)

                I say again, run away as fast as you can. DO NOT under any circumstances get involved in a cash gifting program. You could get into big trouble and ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Hunter
    Yeah, I've seen these videos before as well.

    Kinda cool and very scary at the same time.
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    Ok, sure. You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/Chris_Hunter ;)

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  • Profile picture of the author Christie Love
    Yes... there was a loooooong post about this a while ago. Many opinions were stated regarding cash gifting. It sounds a bit fishy to me. But... that's just my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

    What in the name of all that's holy is Cash Gifting?!?!

    This cannot be in any way legal.

    Had a guy yesterday send me a link to a video site talking all about how people are sending FedEx envelopes full of money. I'm not kidding, I got paranoid "The Man" would kick down my door just for having watched this freakish thing... (Cleaning my history as I type)

    Seriously, this cannot be legal and no I'm not going to post the link. It's too evil.
    Your gut is totally correct.

    It's nothing more than a glorified pyramid scheme.

    Run, run, run, run, run!
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  • Profile picture of the author mojoisland
    I was involved in oue of these in the Mid 90's. You have 5 peoples names and address and you send $5.00 to the person in spot #1 and you put your name and address in spot #5. #1 gets his 5.00 and then moves everyone up one number and reinserts him or herself in again at #5. The theroy is that by the time you get to the #1 spot thousands of people are sending you 5.00 in the mail. In total I made a couple hundred bucks. No what they promised but not a bad return on 5 bucks!

    Cheers!

    Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author lindajess
    Yeah I can't imagine this is anywhere near a "good" idea.

    If you are sending someone $500 cash in a mag, through FedEx, there's something a little fishy there...
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
      Originally Posted by lindajess View Post

      Yeah I can't imagine this is anywhere near a "good" idea.

      If you are sending someone $500 cash in a mag, through FedEx, there's something a little fishy there...
      Well, sure...when you put it like that.



      ~Michael
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      "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • If I didn't know any better this sounds like a chain letter.

    It's funny how people can't seem to understand that chain letters and pyramid schemes never work out and are a colossal waste of time and money.

    Yet, thanks to the internet these things keep popping up over and over again and taking on different forms and they always manage to find droves of recruits.

    You know what they say, there's a sucker born every minute.


    BTW-6 years ago I bought into the referralware scheme. The combination of being young, naive, and having a huge credit limit proved disastrous.
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    "The successful man is the one who finds out what is the matter with his business before his competitors do"
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  • Profile picture of the author braver55b
    I think cash gifting is just another fancy word for ponzi, multi-level-or pyramid scheme.

    Don't even think about it:-)
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  • Profile picture of the author warcher
    No, man, that's baloney. Don't waste your time.
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  • Profile picture of the author stevenwilson
    It smells way to much like fish for my liking.
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    • Profile picture of the author dtcash7
      For what it's worth...


      I'm DONE with cash gifting
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