The End of Fake Facebook Fans

Matt Huggins

12 years ago

Thanks Justin, glad to see another about quality over mass quanity of fake subscribers.

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Breakinglink 12 years ago

Very good point. Thanks for the post.
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Justin Says

12 years ago

It's just so irritating that we have people saying that they are proud of their 10,000 "FAKE" fans... how can you be proud of that? What does that prove?

If you go that route, you're going to be going at it totally wrong. And for those people taking those routes, I hope they fail. Just so they realize the right direction they should be going.

I want to see success stories that are legitimate.. not fake. The same goes for salespages with false information, products with too much hype, and the scamming that is so constant online.

Want people to trust you? Start trusting yourself first.

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Gabby12

12 years ago

Will never happen, too many people think easy is best and only high numbers count. 1,000's of fans or links are useless unless they are targeted.

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Brian John

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Gabby12

1,000's of fans or links are useless unless they are targeted.

not necessarily. for seo, yes, but there is another way it's used. the facebook insert with a few hundred fake fans/likes is often found on blogs. even if they're non-targetet (as fake ones are), for the casual, non-IM savvy, person being marketed a product, it adds to perceived credibility.

i haven't used fake facebook fans, but that's^ what it looks like is happening to me.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by B.J. Johns

not necessarily. for seo, yes, but there is another way it's used. the facebook insert with a few hundred fake fans/likes is often found on blogs. even if they're non-targetet (as fake ones are), for the casual, non-IM savvy, person being marketed a product, it adds to perceived credibility.

i haven't used fake facebook fans, but that's^ what it looks like is happening to me.

Which is fake credibility, yes?

That's the point I'm trying to express. Is that fake traffic/fans relate to fake popularity/credibility.

Which in turn gets us no where.

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Brian John

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

Which is fake credibility, yes?

That's the point I'm trying to express. Is that fake traffic/fans relate to fake popularity/credibility.
Which in turn gets us no where.

i understand your point, and that's one of the reasons i don't resort to using them, but i'm referring to why some people do choose to do so. most folks (particularly those not in IM) don't understand that they are fake. all they see when they come across a blog or salespage is that there are lots of other people that "like" it, which instills in them a little more confidence in their decision to stay on the page or purchase the product. i'm not saying it's right, i'm just saying it is what it is.

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r30ducez

12 years ago

It's all about building a sustainable business, creating real value for your customers.

It seems like the only people creating real income online through fake facebook fans or whatever other marketing fad is hot at the time are the people selling ebooks on how to create quick income using these strategies.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by r30ducez

It's all about building a sustainable business, creating real value for your customers.

It seems like the only people creating real income online through fake facebook fans or whatever other marketing fad is hot at the time are the people selling ebooks on how to create quick income using these strategies.

I wanted to go against this. But I thought about what you said and it makes a lot of sense

Those are the people that are feeding off of the poor by giving them false information.

Great share r30ducez.

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Gaz Cooper

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

Which is fake credibility, yes?

That's the point I'm trying to express. Is that fake traffic/fans relate to fake popularity/credibility.

Which in turn gets us no where.

Hey Justin

You are absolutely right however just as with anything online people are looking for the shortcut and as people have said it dont look good for your business if you have 10 fans (when your starting out) so people will want to bump that the fastest way possible even if its cheating.

I was recently pitched to take my fanpages to the next level promising me thousands of fans in fact up to a million I declined because I tend to agree with you but his client list was a WHO's WHO of Internet marketing.

I will take the slow way knowing that each friend or fan really does have an interest in my business's.

Kickin it on Amazon

Gaz Cooper
Amz Training Academy

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by illinimatt81

Where does one get 10,000 fake fans?

Please say that's a joke

I suggest you re-read the original post lol.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by illinimatt81

I'm not looking to do this, just never really thought about how someone would do this if they wanted. I suppose if makes it seem like you are more popular than you are or when you launch to look more established, but beyond that I don't see the benefit.

I understand, BUT you just expressed my point.

That is false popularity. Meaning your product could suck. So the metrics just aren't there anymore.

We need more legitimate marketers in the world if we want to prosper, otherwise junk is going to continue to follow us forever.

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fluffythewondercat

12 years ago

Fiverr, of course. And elsewhere.

I read a blog post by a prominent PR professional. He said his firm is losing business to other firms who promise clients 100,000 FB fans for, say, $5,000.

If you went out and found 100,000 genuine, targeted, engaged FB fans for a business it would cost a lot more than $5K.

But these clients don't know that and so they go with the lowest bid. The unscrupulous firm turns around and subs the work out, of course.

At some point this is all going to implode. The credibility threshhold ("my competitor has 100,000 fans, so I need 200,000") is going to keep going up and up and up to the point where it beggars belief. I already have doubts about the genuineness of some pages I see.

fLufF
--

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat

Fiverr, of course. And elsewhere.

I read a blog post by a prominent PR professional. He said his firm is losing business to other firms who promise clients 100,000 FB fans for, say, $5,000.

If you went out and found 100,000 genuine, targeted, engaged FB fans for a business it would cost a lot more than $5K.

But these clients don't know that and so they go with the lowest bid. The unscrupulous firm turns around and subs the work out, of course.

At some point this is all going to implode. The credibility threshhold ("my competitor has 100,000 fans, so I need 200,000") is going to keep going up and up and up to the point where it beggars belief. I already have doubts about the genuineness of some pages I see.

fLufF
--

You rock.

I agree on the implosion.

Consider the fact that Facebook says it's nearing the 1,000,000,000 members mark and says 50% login everyday.

That's incorrect.

The reason is because there is so much junk out there. There are fake accounts that are logged into, just to "FAKE" like someones page/website.

There are bots that spam the internet constantly using Facebook accounts.

And for my own example, I have 4 facebook accounts. I'm legit on each of them, but I still have 4.. I login every single day, so they are counting my accounts on that record.

Statistics are false anywhere and everywhere when you deal with people

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KingKuba

12 years ago

That's how the world works. The internet even more so.

How do you think people get rich and in power, they manipulate others and basically steal wealth.

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birddog200

12 years ago

I use a lot of automation. It saves time and outsource money. I can understand your thoughts on the facebook fans. But backlinking, other softwares and blog networks are a must if you want to stay in the game.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by birddog200

I use a lot of automation. It saves time and outsource money. I can understand your thoughts on the facebook fans. But backlinking, other softwares and blog networks are a must if you want to stay in the game.

You do realize that it's false popularity and you are just manipulating things, right?

How does that make you feel inside?

You're also being led down a path that is biased and led by those that want to use you.

Consider the fact that I built a website 3 days ago. The website has 0 backlinks. But the on-site optimization is what Google is looking for. The website now ranks on page #1 of a competitive keyword.

I don't focus on backlinks. I focus on legitimate traffic and on-site/on-page optimization.

Re-think your platform and open your eyes to what's really out there

Otherwise you're going to be like everyone else running around confused.

Just wanted to share my 2 cents on the matter because you seem to be too reliant on false information.

Originally Posted by robbeh

Have you not realized the way of the world? This is unfortunately how human nature runs these days. If it's easy money, it won't last since others will figure it out and saturate it.

Quality will never be the key as that will be even easier to scam as I only have to invest on a few good places. As a matter of fact, quality is a way of the PAST when PR used to be the only thing you needed.

Grab a couple good PR 5+ links and you were off to the races.

Now it's about quantity and diversity. In the important niches this works, but in the small niches people game the system since the quantity is much lower. This is why Offline marketing is so popular right now because it's easy in non competitive niches.

Face the reality, there will always be ways to cheat the system.

I for one don't care if others follow these cheating ways since I don't have time to care and my hair is too valuable to me

. I just like going to bed every night knowing I make an honest income. I admit I do game the system but not by automation or sneaky terms...simply writing quality articles, making quality comments, replying with quality answer on forums...naturally building links. That's still gaming the system whether you like it or not.

And my facebook fan pages range from 400-7000 fans, all paid advertising and natural. Totally worth it since you can actually sell to those "real" people.

Quality will never be the key as that will be even easier to scam as I only have to invest on a few good places.

This statement caught me.

How can you say that when the most successful companies/people in the world are all about quality and simplicity.

Also the reason I bring this up is because of the future. Right now you're targeted on the present. If you want long-term success you'll focus on quality and diversity, not quantity.

BUT, this doesn't mean that quantity is a bad thing.

It just means if you focus on quantity, be real.

As for gaming the system, it's not gaming the system if you are providing quality in a means of promoting what it is that you have to offer.

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robbeh 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

As for gaming the system, it's not gaming the system if you are providing quality in a means of promoting what it is that you have to offer.

It is! Call a spade a spade. You are not allowing Google to rank you relevantly to their terms. You are gaming the system.

Look I know what you are trying to say...I actually live by those rules - offer quality and don't use spam or automation. I fully agree. But now understand this...

Googles system (or algorithm if you want to get fancy) is built to rank pages where Google and only Google feels that page should be ranked. By doing ANYTHING to change the impression of how Google will rank your page with the knowledge of doing FOR that purpose...you are gaming the system!! On page SEO is gaming the system! You are manipulating the Search Engine to rank for that term!

You obviously haven't been in IM for anymore than a few years. Logically quality should rank over quantity. But the reality is that didn't work...now it's purely on quantity and diversity...now if you have quality, quantity, and diversity you are laughing but it doesn't work they way you think it should. It's sad, I know - but that's fact.
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mjd081

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

How does that make you feel inside?

Really?

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

We need more legitimate marketers in the world

Maybe it's because you're so young, but you're an idealist. If someone can make money automating something, they are going to do it. People have always and will always try to find, and succeed at creating, shortcuts to almost everything. If people were happy with slow, we never would have had the industrial revolution; among other things.

I do see where you're coming from, but getting angry about something that you can't control (and that will never change) is completely futile and not worth talking about.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mjd081

Really?

Maybe it's because you're so young, but you're an idealist. If someone can make money automating something, they are going to do it. People have always and will always try to find, and succeed at creating, shortcuts to almost everything. If people were happy with slow, we never would have had the industrial revolution; among other things.

I do see where you're coming from, but getting angry about something that you can't control (and that will never change) is completely futile and not worth talking about.

I wasn't getting angry on any level

I'm just sharing random thoughts as they come.

Being a real person, our views are going to change, life is going to change, the world is constantly progressing.

I understand there are going to be people like that. The point I'm trying to stress is that if we don't care about it, it's going to come back and haunt us.

I was that person that didn't care about anyone early in my life. I've dealt with death, hate, abuse, surrounded by drugs, suicide, etc. and it changed me.

Age is irrelevant.

I know of people in their 40's that still have all of their brothers, sisters, grandparents, parents, and haven't lost anyone.

I know of people that have been secluded into believing something so crazy that they thought it was true their entire life.

I know we live in a society that makes us think one thing while the other is true.

Bias is everywhere. We all live separate lives and we all know that. But we do have the ability to change. And to ignore that is wrong.

Now with the internet, we have more ways to change than ever before.

Otherwise my mindset wouldn't have changed to where it is today and I wouldn't have had the success that I have had which has led me to help others.

Plus.. I like the occasional debate and interesting conversations I can have on the Warrior Forum

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mjd081

12 years ago

"Age is irrelevant"

That certainly isn't true. If age was irrelevant it wouldn't be irregular to see teenagers running (real) companies. Regardless, I'm not going to argue with you about how the business cycle works, supply and demand, etc. so good luck with your ventures. I wish you the best.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mjd081

"Age is irrelevant"

That certainly isn't true. If age was irrelevant it wouldn't be irregular to see teenagers running (real) companies. Regardless, I'm not going to argue with you about how the business cycle works, supply and demand, etc. so good luck with your ventures. I wish you the best.

I was saying age is irrelevant because most people think if you are too young, you can't build a business. And then others thing if you're too old you can't build a business.

I'm expressing that age has nothing to do with it. It's the people behind it and who takes action on what they see

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robbeh

12 years ago

Have you not realized the way of the world? This is unfortunately how human nature runs these days. If it's easy money, it won't last since others will figure it out and saturate it.

Quality will never be the key as that will be even easier to scam as I only have to invest on a few good places. As a matter of fact, quality is a way of the PAST when PR used to be the only thing you needed.

Grab a couple good PR 5+ links and you were off to the races.

Now it's about quantity and diversity. In the important niches this works, but in the small niches people game the system since the quantity is much lower. This is why Offline marketing is so popular right now because it's easy in non competitive niches.

Face the reality, there will always be ways to cheat the system.

I for one don't care if others follow these cheating ways since I don't have time to care and my hair is too valuable to me

. I just like going to bed every night knowing I make an honest income. I admit I do game the system but not by automation or sneaky terms...simply writing quality articles, making quality comments, replying with quality answer on forums...naturally building links. That's still gaming the system whether you like it or not.

And my facebook fan pages range from 400-7000 fans, all paid advertising and natural. Totally worth it since you can actually sell to those "real" people.

Thanks

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superhpgirl

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

Okay.

I want to stress something here.

Those out there that are using FAKE Facebook fans, you need to re-think your strategy.

If you keep helping these bogus services, then there is just going to be more and more junk all over the internet that's completely useless.

The only way companies should grow, is naturally/organically.

The same goes for backlinking tools/programs and all this automation.

If we as internet marketers keep on this path, there's going to be a dramatic change online where everyones going to be screwed.

Sadly.. we kind of need it.

Why should companies prosper because they know how to manipulate people? Why should you succeed just because you know how to cheat?

Point is.. it's not going to be about quantity anymore.. it's going to be about quality and it should be.

You really have a good point here. There are lots of junk data and also fake people in the internet right now. I think it really doesn't help to have something like that to ones company/business.

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Fraser SellHealth

12 years ago

My theory is pay for some real likes and followers to get going.

It shows your potential customers that other people have liked your product or service ,
cuz lets be honest if you have 2 likes it just looks bad to any consumer.

I get your point thou justin, no one should be bragging about fake likes or followers but there is value in them even if it to just get you off the ground..

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraser SellHealth

My theory is pay for some real likes and followers to get going.

It shows your potential customers that other people have liked your product or service ,
cuz lets be honest if you have 2 likes it just looks bad to any consumer.

I get your point thou justin, no one should be bragging about fake likes or followers but there is value in them even if it to just get you off the ground..

So... let's just say you were agreeing that fake fans are helpful.

In that mindset, you would be okay with someone buying Warrior Forum "thanks" or something of that nature.

If people did that, you'd probably be in an uproar because you'd see a scammer or someone who doesn't even matter getting a ton of "thanks".

"Thanks" are the same as "Likes" or "+'s" or anything else that build credibility and when they are abused, they are used to ruin society/communities.

Think about it.

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Fraser SellHealth

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

So... let's just say you were agreeing that fake fans are helpful.

In that mindset, you would be okay with someone buying Warrior Forum "thanks" or something of that nature.

If people did that, you'd probably be in an uproar because you'd see a scammer or someone who doesn't even matter getting a ton of "thanks".

"Thanks" are the same as "Likes" or "+'s" or anything else that build credibility and when they are abused, they are used to ruin society/communities.

Think about it.

I guess that would be abit out of the normal for someone to sell "thanks" on warrior.

At the end of the day thou if you are trying to run a business and get eye balls to your product or service every good impression counts.

Your original beef was people brag about that **** , which i agree is f'd up and a slit retarded.

But if you are trying to build a brand or business its important to set yourself apart from pages that have 1 or 2 likes even at the beginning , and targeted are always better.

so i agree with your original beef about bragging but i would suggest anyone that is trying to build real fans to buy a few to get you rolling , i know there is no stat out yet about people that dont "like" your product because it has very low likes, but its coming

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Fraser SellHealth

so i agree with your original beef about bragging but i would suggest anyone that is trying to build real fans to buy a few to get you rolling , i know there is no stat out yet about people that dont "like" your product because it has very low likes, but its coming

I love when people try to retaliate lol.

When it comes down to it. Create good stuff and people will come if you get it out there.

Don't tell people to cheat. Tell them to build legitimate business's.

Your mindset could distort education all together.

Consider if a teacher told a child that when they are trying to get somewhere in life, they should cheat, because that's how you become successful. You'd flip out if that was your kid. That's because you should.

If you want to succeed, you should be real. Stop trying to find the easy way out. All I hear everyday is how people aren't succeeding.. and yet I didn't cheat and I've achieved so much.

Again, think about it. Hopefully I help someone change their way of thinking for the better.

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ActA

12 years ago

Facebook is becoming smart, not great, but fixable

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robbeh

12 years ago

Also on a second note, if you truly ranked on the first page of a competitive term in 3 days...then one of three things is happening:

1) You are doing the typical dance...right around the 2-3 day mark you will land high up on the SERPs but then by day 4-5 you will land somewhere on page 7-10

2) You don't know how to assess competition and you are going off something like quoted results and there really is no competition.

3) You're lying (however you don't strike me as a liar) so I would go with 1/2.

Thanks
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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by robbeh

Also on a second note, if you truly ranked on the first page of a competitive term in 3 days...then one of three things is happening:

1) You are doing the typical dance...right around the 2-3 day mark you will land high up on the SERPs but then by day 4-5 you will land somewhere on page 7-10

2) You don't know how to assess competition and you are going off something like quoted results and there really is no competition.

3) You're lying (however you don't strike me as a liar) so I would go with 1/2.

Thanks for the feedback but I want to stress that sometimes even though there is heavy competition, on-site optimization alone can outrank competitors.

You can disagree with this, but if you've seen what I've seen with over 140 websites, I know it's a reality.

I use Google Keyword Tool, Majestic SEO, Market Samurai, Niche Shark, Alexa, Quantcast, Google Trends, Google Insights, and many other tools to assess my competition.

I thank you for saying that I don't strike you as a liar either, because above anything I try to be as real as I can when I post something anywhere.

When it comes down to it. It's possible. Just because it's not common, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Great counter though

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robbeh

12 years ago

I don't want to start a war here, I like you and I like your thread. I was just trying to get the point across that life (online and off) is not all pretty flowers and smiles.

You will always see people cheating, trying to shortcut ahead in life and wreck it for the rest of us.

A few years ago I had my Adwords account banned without appeal. I did NOTHING wrong, I was one of the legitimate marketers offering quality to my readers. I even disclosed to my readers before it became law. Why? Because I actually felt that got me more sales and reputation.

The mass ban went across all accounts because of marketers who were direct linking, or using squeeze pages to the masses - they wrecked it for all of us...that's why I sympathize here.

But one thing I have to point out...all those pretty tools you rolled off your tongue...don't assess competition (MS does a little bit and I can't comment on Niche Shark, never used it). All those tools asses the value of a keyword, how much it's searched, trends etc...competition is assessed through tools such as:

SEM Rush, SEOBook, SEO Spyglass...basically tools analyzing domain age, PR of site, backlinks to site and how they are linked, how well on paged a site is targeted, site depth etc.

But again, it's water under the bridge - you are also right that sometimes with a well On Page SEO'd site you can land on page 1...but that relies on luck and I don't build any business on luck

Thanks
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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by robbeh

I don't want to start a war here, I like you and I like your thread. I was just trying to get the point across that life (online and off) is not all pretty flowers and smiles.

You will always see people cheating, trying to shortcut ahead in life and wreck it for the rest of us.

A few years ago I had my Adwords account banned without appeal. I did NOTHING wrong, I was one of the legitimate marketers offering quality to my readers. I even disclosed to my readers before it became law. Why? Because I actually felt that got me more sales and reputation.

The mass ban went across all accounts because of marketers who were direct linking, or using squeeze pages to the masses - they wrecked it for all of us...that's why I sympathize here.

But one thing I have to point out...all those pretty tools you rolled off your tongue...don't assess competition (MS does a little bit and I can't comment on Niche Shark, never used it). All those tools asses the value of a keyword, how much it's searched, trends etc...competition is assessed through tools such as:

SEM Rush, SEOBook, SEO Spyglass...basically tools analyzing domain age, PR of site, backlinks to site and how they are linked, how well on paged a site is targeted, site depth etc.

But again, it's water under the bridge - you are also right that sometimes with a well On Page SEO'd site you can land on page 1...but that relies on luck and I don't build any business on luck

Ha. No war to be had. Just knowledge.

Majestic SEO analyzes backlinks.
Alexa checks domain age.
NicheShark checks backlinks + domain age + PR.
Market Samurai has competition metrics to check on these things as well.
Quantcast literally goes in and checks on the competitions audience.
Google Trends + Google Insights express big moments of competition in media/social activity.
I mention Google Keyword Tool because it assess' if it's even viable to check on competition in the first place. Also Google Keyword Tool expresses competition within Google AdWords.

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trevpen 12 years ago

Almost from day 1 in my IM journey I've been bombarded with advice to automate everything I can, and offered tools to do this with. On 2 day came the advice to outsource. It has got to the point where, in order to succeed, one has to factor in quantity, and hugely so - obviously as targeted as possible. Once you have the numbers, quality plays the defining role in getting sales and satisfied customers. But without quantity to start with, you will not make it in IM. That's my view anyway.
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trytolearnmore

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

Why should companies prosper because they know how to manipulate people? Why should you succeed just because you know how to cheat?

But isn't a significant part of the U.S economy based on cheating? Obviously since i'm no expert in this area, i may talk rubbish, but isn't it true that you guys print more money than you actually have and sell it out to other countries, therefore keeping yourself from an economic collapse? Isn't that a form of cheating that actually works?

Many companies, banks, businesses cheat. They might get a slap on the wrist, but in the end they win.

So don't expect anything to change in the future. People will still make money from gullible people.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by trytolearnmore

But isn't a significant part of the U.S economy based on cheating? Obviously since i'm no expert in this area, i may talk rubbish, but isn't it true that you guys print more money than you actually have and sell it out to other countries, therefore keeping yourself from an economic collapse? Isn't that a form of cheating that actually works?

Many companies, banks, businesses cheat. They might get a slap on the wrist, but in the end they win.

So don't expect anything to change in the future. People will still make money from gullible people.

You just stress "you guys".

You connected an entire country to one belief.

This is why I don't agree with dedicating myself to specific words. Because people relate entire countries to beliefs, the same goes for ethnicity or anything else that can be described as a group.

I agree that yes, there are cruel companies and people out there. But what I'm trying to stand for is that there don't have to be so many.

If we could start teaching each other the legitimate methods for doing things and start expressing how inhumane the other methods are, the world will change.

One person can change everything. Our job should be to change everyone so that everything changes faster.

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Brian John

12 years ago

Originally Posted by NY1

It's a noble idea. I don't think it will change. No offense, but people are not going to stop doing what they are doing because Justin Lewis wants it to change.
Here is why:
Manipulation has been the name of the game for the last 100 years or better.
Most start up dating sites pre-populate their database with fake profiles.
Sports teams give away tickets at the last minute to make sure the stands look full at certain games.
Companies hire teams of social psychologists to learn what colors and sounds can make people be in a better mood when they are buying. Or how to teach kids to nag their parents. They even admit to this, cause they don't think there is anything wrong with it.
The entire front end of grocery stores are tested and planned to squeeze every last dollar they can out of consumers.
Casinos are entirely set up just to manipulate people into spending more money. Every little detail is planned out just to make sure the idiots pump more quarters into the slot machines.
Newspapers have regularly fudged circulation numbers to increase ad revenue. I think it was Newsday that got busted on this in the '90's but it was supposedly regular practice.
Large record companies have engaged in payola for a long time to make sure that their featured artists don't flop.
Marketing and manipulation are pretty much the same thing... it's just that marketing sounds better.
Not saying it's right or that it is wrong... it just is what it is.
You think it is not rigging the game when a Fortune 500 company sends everyone who likes their page a coupon code?
They just paid for likes with $ 2 coupons, lol. Hell, I liked Namecheap's page just to get a deal on a domain when they had that offer going a little while back. Am I real fan? Not really.
How about when a Fortune 500 company hires Madison Avenue to create a viral campaign?
That doesn't happen organically, it is planned out from the first step to the last one.
It reminds me of the nice guy who buys a girl flowers to make her like him.
He doesn't think that it is manipulation because it is a 'nice' thing to do.
Yet, he is buying something to try and create a result. Otherwise, known as... manipulation.
Hell, even Newt Gingrich got caught with fake Twitter followers, lol.

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curly sue 12 years ago

the best culprit is fiverr orders, too many fakes there. c'est la vie
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Andy88888

Banned 12 years ago

[DELETED]

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Justin Says 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy88888

Will never happen, too many people think easy is best and only high numbers count. 1,000's of fans or links are useless unless they are targeted.

See that's the mindset we should be again.

Why can't it happen? We are human. We can teach each other to change.

Just because so many people believe/think something is true, doesn't mean that they will always believe that.

I was that person that used to think the easy way is the best way. Well guess what. I found out the hard way... that it's true.

Weird right? I'm combating against "the easy way" and yet that's how I build my business's.

Things don't need to be hard... it's just that most people that think they are going the "easy way" are actually going the "wrong/hard way".

Ah I love when I fight against what I say.
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The Copy Warriors

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

Okay.

I want to stress something here.

Those out there that are using FAKE Facebook fans, you need to re-think your strategy.

If you keep helping these bogus services, then there is just going to be more and more junk all over the internet that's completely useless.

The only way companies should grow, is naturally/organically.

The same goes for backlinking tools/programs and all this automation.

If we as internet marketers keep on this path, there's going to be a dramatic change online where everyones going to be screwed.

Sadly.. we kind of need it.

Why should companies prosper because they know how to manipulate people? Why should you succeed just because you know how to cheat?

Point is.. it's not going to be about quantity anymore.. it's going to be about quality and it should be.

well nobody makes money off fake facebook fans anyway. someone did a study a while ago that showed that once your fan base starts to expand significantly beyond your friends list, link "click through rates" go way down.

Study: Only 1% Of Facebook Fans Engage With Brands On Facebook

That's not the same study but it's similar. Probably the kinds of "big brands" studied in that kind of research study are not bothering with fake fan building. if only 1% of REAL fans are clicking on stuff, imagine what glorious goodness people are getting out of FAKE fans!

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Andy Button

well nobody makes money off fake facebook fans anyway. someone did a study a while ago that showed that once your fan base starts to expand significantly beyond your friends list, link "click through rates" go way down.

Study: Only 1% Of Facebook Fans Engage With Brands On Facebook

That's not the same study but it's similar. Probably the kinds of "big brands" studied in that kind of research study are not bothering with fake fan building. if only 1% of REAL fans are clicking on stuff, imagine what glorious goodness people are getting out of FAKE fans!

Yea see I disagree with that because it talks about "brands".

They're referencing the top 200 companies. Which in my eyes.. I'm not going to listen to. I'd rather listen to the dude that's ranked #10,000 lol.

When we start bringing in those statistics and including them among small-time marketers, it's a big difference.

For example, if Coke posts something on their wall.. I'm not going to care.

And to be fair. Whenever "Coke" was to post something on their wall and I saw that, I would then think of Coke. Which may lead me to go to the store and buy one. Or when I later get to the store, I decide to get Coke versus Pepsi.

Just my 2 cents, I've seen the story and think it's a unrealistic way of saying that Facebook is useless.

But I will say this.

Initial fans are extremely profitable because it's new to them. But so are my current fans. Otherwise I wouldn't be making money from it.

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Brian John

12 years ago

justin,
here's an example of a site using facebook fans to boost credibility. Tired All The Time - Helping You Stop Your Tiredness & Fatigue In 14 Days Or Less . although it doesn't do anything for seo, these faces and "likes" add just a little more believability. i don't know for sure, but as someone in IM, they appear fake to me. whether or not they're fake on this particular site, it's the concept of how they're used on this page i was trying to get across.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by B.J. Johns

justin,
here's an example of a site using facebook fans to boost credibility. Tired All The Time - Helping You Stop Your Tiredness & Fatigue In 14 Days Or Less . although it doesn't do anything for seo, these faces and "likes" add just a little more believability. i don't know for sure, but as someone in IM, they appear fake to me.

The only fans I see are in the right sidebar for their Facebook page.

To be honest, it doesn't look as if their fans are fake. More than anything it just seems like the page owner is so inactive that the fans have lost touch and just don't care.

The last post on the page was in September.

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Brian John

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

The only fans I see are in the right sidebar for their Facebook page.
To be honest, it doesn't look as if their fans are fake. More than anything it just seems like the page owner is so inactive that the fans have lost touch and just don't care.
The last post on the page was in September.

i follow what you're saying. all i'm getting at is that, although i don't use them, bought facebook fans/likes can be used in a similar fashion simply to add to believability.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by B.J. Johns

i follow what you're saying. all i'm getting at is that, although i don't use them, bought facebook fans/likes can be used in a similar fashion simply to add to believability.

I agree. They can add believability.

But I hate that people want to create false belief in products/services/blogs/pages, etc just because they want to make money.

I understand that my argument on these things is a little long-winded and can be confusing, but I think we should keep our focus on teaching people the legitimate ways of doing things.

Otherwise we'll end up in a society that is more false then it already is (I stress this because their is bias everywhere)

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Kierkegaard

12 years ago

Basically

If you want to cheat the system you will need to pay out. You will then have to continue paying out as long as you want to be in the system.

Realistically

A few well placed 'cheats', carefully selected, will probably do your business more good than harm. I.E. a Kindle ebook with a a couple of well placed 'reviews' will sell better than one with no reviews (in most cases). All publishers understand this. Major publishing houses require their authors to review and recommend fellow authors (from the same publishing house). In the UK this is known as log-rolling. In addition, respected critics will be offered high-ranking, extremely well-paid positions, at publishing houses at least a year before leaving their jobs - so that they can spend this year reviewing and praising books written by their 'future' employer's authors.

Personally, I would prefer that there was no need to cheat but realistically I can see the need. This, of course, only goes so far. Paying for 1000s of likes, followers, etc. simply to buid creditability is usually not worth the time, money and effort. If someone were to offer me 5, believable, Amazon reviews for a Kindle ebook of mine - at a reasonable price - I'd consider it.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Kierkegaard

Basically

If you want to cheat the system you will need to pay out. You will then have to continue paying out as long as you want to be in the system.

Realistically

A few well placed 'cheats', carefully selected, will probably do your business more good than harm. I.E. a Kindle ebook with a a couple of well placed 'reviews' will sell better than one with no reviews (in most cases). All publishers understand this. Major publishing houses require their authors to review and recommend fellow authors (from the same publishing house). In the UK this is known as log-rolling. In addition, respected critics will be offered high-ranking, extremely well-paid positions, at publishing houses at least a year before leaving their jobs - so that they can spend this year reviewing and praising books written by their 'future' employer's authors.

Personally, I would prefer that there was no need to cheat but realistically I can see the need. This, of course, only goes so far. Paying for 1000s of likes, followers, etc. simply to buid creditability is usually not worth the time, money and effort. If someone were to offer me 5, believable, Amazon reviews for a Kindle ebook of mine - at a reasonable price - I'd consider it.

I knew someone that used to be an author on Amazon. He would write his own reviews or pay friends to write reviews.

His book sucked.

He was a prick.

All he cared about was money & greed.

But his book sold.

Is this the society we want to live in? Do you get where I'm trying to go with all of this?

You could say, "Oh well it's a good thing".. but realistically, it's manipulation.

I understand that by hiring a supermodel to promote your product is manipulation as well. The same can be said for having Tony Stewart drive around in a car with advertisements all over it. And I understand that it's something we are likely to always have.

But we can counter act a lot of it by not doing it ourselves and teaching others to promote stuff that's actually good.

Maybe Tony Stewart drives around in a car with Office Depot and Mobil1 advertised on it because he likes them.. that's not manipulation and he still makes a profit (i'm not saying he is or he isn't).

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tryinhere

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

Okay.
Why should companies prosper because they know how to manipulate people? Why should you succeed just because you know how to cheat?

Point is.. it's not going to be about quantity anymore.. it's going to be about quality and it should be.

A long ways back now I was in a blog sharing / promotion group where people advertised on each others blogs, this was a group of 30K plus blogs, the more popular you got the more you charged in the blog currently for people to place an ad.

After looking at it for a while I seen a mathematical way to go to the top, not by using quality or any other method but to manipulate or better still understand numbers and how they worked.

So i started buying and selling ad spots based on my maths alone and with around 6 weeks I went from the bottom dweller on the site to the number one most expensive and popular blog, bashing crap loads of visitors and people backed up for several weeks all clambering to get a ad spot on my site.

The whole time I never once posted a decent blog post, nor did I post the 1 blog a day or any other recommended crap by the experts, yet here i was number one with pure crap.

The long and short of the story as mentioned by the op here it was all fake, and anyone using fake or doctored methods to get a position will only find its a empty and pointless exercises.

There is n depth in the work and no real concrete positives only a false illusion akin to living in Disneyland with the pixies.

The day after I went number one I stopped all maths and let the entire site die and never went back down that yellow brick road again, and for people who do travel it, make sure your on some good drugs because any belief that your on a winner is no more than smoke n mirrors.

Still there is a lot of conditioning from the spin masters that you to can have fame, you can have it and have it for pennies all overnight while you sleep.

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Brian John

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

But I hate that people want to create false belief in products/services/blogs/pages, etc just because they want to make money.
I understand that my argument on these things is a little long-winded and can be confusing, but I think we should keep our focus on teaching people the legitimate ways of doing things.
Otherwise we'll end up in a society that is more false then it already is (I stress this because their is bias everywhere)

in my early 20s i was a lot more idealistic than i am now. now, 20 yrs later, i understand that the chances of me changing the world in any significant way are infinitesimally small (ie. it ain't gonna happen), and one of the real goals of all this is to make lots of $$$. the nature of people is not going to change, and on a most primal level that is "every man for himself." yes we cooperate with each other, but it's all in an effort to further ourselves, as is the case in all of nature. take a good look at nearly any large business, and at its roots what i'm saying is evident. i hate to sound so jaded, but that's just how it is. nearly everything else (not everything of course) is secondary. wish someone would have told me that earlier in life, but not many people are going to be that straight with you.

i really don't want to change this thread into a philosophical discussion but suffice to say, don't let any ideas of how you think the world should be interfere with your success. if you do want to be a more benevolent-type person with true and well-meaning intentions, play the game and make your money first, then go change the world, but don't attempt to do it the other way around. i'm not saying be a crook or an asshole, but play hardball withing the rules of business. took me a long time to learn this.

peace.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by B.J. Johns

in my early 20s i was a lot more idealistic than i am now. now, 20 yrs later, i understand that the chances of me changing the world in any significant way are infinitesimally small (ie. it ain't gonna happen), and one of the real goals of all this is to make lots of $$$. the nature of people is not going to change, and on a most primal level that is "every man for himself." yes we cooperate with each other, but it's all in an effort to further ourselves, as is the case in all of nature. take a good look at nearly any large business, and at its roots what i'm saying is evident. i hate to sound so jaded, but that's just how it is. nearly everything else (not everything of course) is secondary. wish someone would have told me that earlier in life, but not many people are going to be that straight with you.

i really don't want to change this thread into a philosophical discussion but suffice to say, don't let any ideas of how you think the world should be interfere with your success. if you do want to be a more benevolent-type person with true and well-meaning intentions, play the game and make your money first, then go change the world, but don't attempt to do it the other way around. i'm not saying be a crook or an asshole, but play hardball withing the rules of business. took me a long time to learn this.

peace.

I'm going to give you some hope.

Only because that's it seems you need.

I want you to read this: Ray Kroc and the Fast Food Industry

Then reconsider what you're saying

(I'm not saying McDonalds did the world any better, but it ranked 111 in Fortune 500 in 2011)

EDIT: in reference to the 2nd bolding, I'm making money and helping others while building my business's at the same time

I've had many $10,000+ weeks, but with the intention of helping people solve a problem. Giving them a better solution to what's out there and making a profit as well. Better yet, I'm doing it on their standards and not my own.

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Brian John

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

I'm going to give you some hope.
Only because that's it seems you need.
I want you to read this: Ray Kroc and the Fast Food Industry
Then reconsider what you're saying

(I'm not saying McDonalds did the world any better, but it ranked 111 in Fortune 500 in 2011)

i've read lots of stuff on ray kroc, steve jobs, bill gates, etc., and i firmly understand the concept of "if you work just for money, you'll never make it, but if you love what you're doing and you always put the customer first, success will be yours." that mindset however must come with a business focus, and the ultimate focus of business is profit, no matter how you spin it. in other words, why didn't kroc just give away burgers? because no sales = no business = you can't put anyone first. keep in mind, kroc also said, "if any of my competitors were drowning, i'd stick a hose in their mouth."

fun convo but got to head, dinner time.

take care.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by B.J. Johns

i've read lots of stuff on ray kroc, steve jobs, bill gates, etc., and i firmly understand the concept of "if you work just for money, you'll never make it, but if you love what you're doing and you always put the customer first, success will be yours." that mindset however must come with a business focus, and the ultimate focus of business is profit, no matter how you spin it. in other words, why didn't kroc just give away burgers? because no sales = no business = you can't put anyone first. keep in mind, kroc also said, "if any of my competitors were drowning, i'd stick a hose in their mouth."

fun convo but got to head, dinner time.

take care.

"if any of my competitors were drowning, i'd stick a hose in their mouth."

Ha. That made me laugh.

The point there was stressing age and how it's irrelevant. To think you can't change something is a mindset that society leads people to believe.

As for what you state about money, I agree that it's something that can be beneficial. But it's not just money. It can be trade.

Everything and anything in my eyes is a profit. Not to make it sound weird, but helping someone for free (which I do all the time) has it's profits.

I built a website a while back for a pretty big guy, just because I wanted to. I didn't visualize a profit in any sense whatsoever. A few months later he helped me with something in return. To me that's a profit.

Now I can say I know this guy. Now I can express that he used my services and liked them.

No matter what you do, you're trading something.

If I stomp on the ground and the floor shakes, my neighbor might hear it and call the police. However odd that might sound, that was a profit. Because I did exactly that, and they called the police last year. The sheriff was the one who came to my house (or whatever she was). Well 3 months later I got a letter in the mail saying I was due for taxes on my business license or something (which I had no clue about). The sheriff whom I had met 3 months prior was the person who came to the door and notified me of this. We instantly connected, she remembered me, we laughed. And even though the money was needed right then, and she needed to leave, she let me run across the street to the ATM to grab the money. She told me if she hadn't have known me, she would have just left.

Life is a huge circle and it's amazing.. but again, that's profit, because if she had left, I would have been screwed over by the treasury department and they would have charged me more money... and even if it was only a dollar, it was a profit.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Brian John

i've read lots of stuff on ray kroc, steve jobs, bill gates, etc., and i firmly understand the concept of "if you work just for money, you'll never make it, but if you love what you're doing and you always put the customer first, success will be yours." that mindset however must come with a business focus, and the ultimate focus of business is profit, no matter how you spin it. in other words, why didn't kroc just give away burgers? because no sales = no business = you can't put anyone first. keep in mind, kroc also said, "if any of my competitors were drowning, i'd stick a hose in their mouth."

fun convo but got to head, dinner time.

take care.

Hope you had a good dinner months ago. And I'm going to come back at this.

Wrong.

Yes money can be a driving force, but do you think they cheated their way to top by buying fake fans? Nope.

People loved their stuff and enjoyed what they had to offer. That's why people bought their products.

Do you think Ray Kroc paid to have thousands of people sit out front of his burger joint just to look good? Nope. He made good burgers. And people told their friends/family about them.

Replace burgers with content, VOILA.

As for your last comment. Fake fans are similar to that of drowning. You go in that direction and you aren't going to be one of those companies people look up to. Heck, you'll just be a floater (Big Brother reference).

I'm against and always will be against #FCS (Fake Company S**t) and all for #RCS (Real Company S**t)

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T.R. McCarroll 12 years ago

Isn't the threat Zuckerberg and crew will eventually stomp this kind of abuse, thus devastating the end user that paid for the "fake fans". Our friends at Google do it all the time.

Is enough for me to never offer that to my clients. They pay me to well to get caught up in that.

Nice post

T.R.
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John Romaine

12 years ago

"...in a perfect world"

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MaverickUK

12 years ago

I think it's a bit pathetic that people PAY to have 'fans'. How is someone a fan if they're not even real people or an actual fan of the page being promoted? Getting fans is EASY - the kind of fans that are targeted and LIKE your page on a voluntary basis, it takes hard work and a little bit of out-the-box thinking.

I've got all of my likes over at n8geeks NATURALLY and they're all fans. Simple formula and without paying a single penny.

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mattyprimmer

12 years ago

I just kind of feel like if you didn't need to "cheat" none of us would be here at warrior...is that fair?

Wouldn't we just set something up with value and we would be a big hit? Nope not in this world.

Maybe someday it will be like that. I hope so!

The reality is there are a lot of people out there slaving away putting good quality stuff together and spinning their tires.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by mattyprimmer

I just kind of feel like if you didn't need to "cheat" none of us would be here at warrior...is that fair?

Wouldn't we just set something up with value and we would be a big hit? Nope not in this world.

Maybe someday it will be like that. I hope so!

The reality is there are a lot of people out there slaving away putting good quality stuff together and spinning their tires.

That's because they aren't getting it out there to people that care.

If something is good. Not just quality. But good, simple, easy to understand, and of value to someone, they might share it with someone else.

When we talk quality, that's a very broad word. Because quality to some could be big words. While quality to others could mean just giving them the damn answer lol.

You can be the most intelligent person in the world, but someone without any brains (that would be me 2 years ago or even now) can come in and change everything, because they took action and were progressive.

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mattyprimmer

12 years ago

Originally Posted by Justin Lewis

That's because they aren't getting it out there to people that care.

If something is good. Not just quality. But good, simple, easy to understand, and of value to someone, they might share it with someone else.

When we talk quality, that's a very broad word. Because quality to some could be big words. While quality to others could mean just giving them the damn answer lol.

You can be the most intelligent person in the world, but someone without any brains (that would be me 2 years ago or even now) can come in and change everything, because they took action and were progressive.

I agree that quality is a very broad word. How often in this business do we come across people that think their total crap is quality. I own a media company that gets a lot of PR requests, and every person that approaches us thinks what they're doing is something revolutionary and amazing....rarely the case.

The thing I'm wondering is where do you draw the line on "manipulating" things.

Let's say you start a blog. How do you get your first visitor? (let's assume that first visitor is someone that would actually even tell anyone, share, link to, etc.) Even if it's an amazing idea, you're going to need to manipulate in some way. You don't just put it up and see what happens. No one will find it. That's my only point.

You do on-site SEO, You contact other blogs, You tell your friends, You start asking for links, etc, etc.

Wouldn't it be cool if when you did something that was actually legit amazing you could just wake up tomorrow and you would be famous? Not in this world. Your competition is manipulating things so why would you pretend the world is some amazing place and sit back and lose business.

As for fake FB fans, what are we even talking about exactly? Are we talking people that aren't real liking you? or are we talking legit real people that you're paying/giving incentive to like you?

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maclennan

12 years ago

I presume all these fivver gigs offering thousands of facebook fans will now be redundant!!

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Saito

12 years ago

I disagree, as I think you need an initial 100-1000 fans before anyone takes you as seriously as they should.

So until human beings evolve to the point where they don't need social proof and are able to critically examine what you have to offer without being blinded by the irrelevant fact that not enough other people have found out about you yet because you're new, I'm going to keep doing this in the beginning.

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Aldiyar1

12 years ago

Originally Posted by illinimatt81

Where does one get 10,000 fake fans?

there are tons of these sites now. BUT, quality of this quantity sucks.

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Ewan1998

Banned 12 years ago

Good post.

Youtube is definitely the worst for it with all the "sub4sub" people on it who just like others videos so they'll do the same back. Pointless....

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1 reply

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fluffythewondercat

12 years ago

The thing I'm wondering is where do you draw the line on "manipulating" things.

Your clear and unambiguous understanding of those two archaic concepts "right" and "wrong" tell you where to draw the line.

Optimize your site so search engines index it properly? Right.
Keyword-stuff, use invisible text, etc? Wrong.

Use original information-rich content that's easy to read? Right.
Use derivative spun articles with clunky syntax? Wrong.

Network with other people? Right.
Spam other people? Wrong.

And so it goes. It's really not that hard. If at any point you find yourself saying, "Well, that's what other people do..." to justify your actions, you're not being true to yourself.

fLufF
--

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chilote77

12 years ago

I fail to see the benefit of purchasing fans or likes. these "fans" are not real, they don´t comment, interact or make the page grow in any form. so how can that be beneficial? anybody can shed some light?

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1 reply

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Ewan1998

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by chilote77

I fail to see the benefit of purchasing fans or likes. these "fans" are not real, they don´t comment, interact or make the page grow in any form. so how can that be beneficial? anybody can shed some light?

Some people think that if someone comes across a brand/product page that has 100,000 likes or so, they're going to want to buy it. However, if its only got 3, it might be a scam and will stay away from it. It's got some truth to it but overall, it's a waste of money and time.

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2 replies

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Ewan1998

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by illinimatt81

Not a waste of money and time to have 500+ followers for 5 bucks in an hour. Nothing to lose IMO and only social proof established.

Still - at your own risk!

There's no quality gain in it though. Your not getting anything back, just idle people. Your talking to a brick wall.

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Justin Says

12 years ago

Originally Posted by illinimatt81

Not a waste of money and time to have 500+ followers for 5 bucks in an hour. Nothing to lose IMO and only social proof established.

Still - at your own risk!

Rethink your strategy.

While you spend $5 for 500 FAKE fans.

I go out and spend $5 for 500 REAL fans.

Get your advertisement CTR up and you can get fans at $0.01 per fan.

So.. rethink your strategy and see how those real fans interact versus the fake fans.

Same amount of money spent and you'll be building a much better established consumer base.

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tjcreation

12 years ago

There has been manipulation in marketing since farmer A said to farmer B "Sure this is a great cow. Don't worry about the fact she's laying down - she's just tired."

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ryanmilligan

Banned 12 years ago

Quality over quantity always.

But in some cases many people do know how to get targeted Facebook fans in their thousands joining their page. It's pretty easy to be honest.

Just a little hard work and creativity. That's all.

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1 reply

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Ewan1998

Banned 12 years ago

Originally Posted by ryanmilligan

Quality over quantity always.

But in some cases many people do know how to get targeted Facebook fans in their thousands joining their page. It's pretty easy to be honest.

Just a little hard work and creativity. That's all.

People forget the one simple rule:

Create something they like!

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1 reply

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Justin Says 12 years ago

Originally Posted by Ewan1998

People forget the one simple rule:

Create something they like!

You sir are winning.

That's the point of the "Like" button.

It's a very universal rule really. If you give people what they want and they want to share that with others, they'll click like.

For example.

If you create a page about "foot odor" you might not get that many likes, that's because people don't like foot odor.

However.

If you create a page about "Tony Stewart Fans" then those people that are fans are more likely to press "Like" because they want to share their feelings with other people.
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planetlubs

12 years ago

You are right Justin. The same goes for fake Twitter followers.

I think such people are looking for social proof.

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Carl Juneau

12 years ago

Hey Justin,

Gotta agree with you here.

And, Facebook fans are just so easy to get, with a little advertising.

Why fake them?

And when people check out your fans, and they see all these indian faceless accounts, what are they gonna think?

Carl

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Regional Warrior

12 years ago

Business been a bit on the down side there Justin? nice way to get people to your sig

Just hope the Mods see this thread as not being a Promo for your business...

Those out there that are using FAKE Facebook fans, you need to re-think your strategy.

If you keep helping these bogus services, then there is just going to be more and more junk all over the internet that's completely useless.

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gonzotrucker

12 years ago

It's better to have 200 targeted fans then 5000 fake likes.

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narindersingh

12 years ago

Go for catch fake facebook fans.

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GeraldNitram

12 years ago

"If you work just for money, you'll never make it." Man, I love that line! Thanks for bringing it up, B.J. Johns.

Justin, I see your point. It's not just in Facebook, actually. There are also people on Twitter who have fake followers. Even I have fake followers, and I don't exactly know how they ended up being my followers in the first place. Must have been because of my hash tags.

Anyway, I agree with you. We can all make the Internet a better place by looking at quality as something that's a lot more important than quantity.

Thanks

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