Do you hate OTOs?

13 years ago

Hmmm interesting question.

I hate OTOs when they are thrown in there just to make some extra money. If you create a complete product and the OTO is just a supplement that you don't NEED but could provide extra value or time savings (like a Wordpress theme for example) I don't see any problem with it.

Just like the original content, if the OTO is valuable and it makes sense, I don't have any problem with it.

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JohnMcCabe

13 years ago

[Long sigh...]

Once again, another "I hate (some tactic)" post. From the description given, once again the problem isn't in the tactic itself, but in crappy execution. If the OTO was done well and made sense, you likely would not have noticed it.

If you go back into the archives with these threads, you'll find that people hate OTO's, pop-ups, opt-ins, double opt-ins, exit pops, audios, videos, long copy, short copy, too many offers, not enough offers, too much email, long articles, short articles, etc., etc., etc, ad nausea ad infinitum.

Buy or don't buy, it's your money. But please, before you (the all-inclusive, generic 'you') start another "I hate" rant, consider whether it's really the tactic that bothers you or just another incompetent execution.

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sal64

13 years ago

Thank you John. Saved me a ton of typing.

I love OTO's... and given that a recent one converted at over 71%... I'd suggest that my customers also loved it.

Sal

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

[Long sigh...]

Once again, another "I hate (some tactic)" post. From the description given, once again the problem isn't in the tactic itself, but in crappy execution. If the OTO was done well and made sense, you likely would not have noticed it.

If you go back into the archives with these threads, you'll find that people hate OTO's, pop-ups, opt-ins, double opt-ins, exit pops, audios, videos, long copy, short copy, too many offers, not enough offers, too much email, long articles, short articles, etc., etc., etc, ad nausea ad infinitum.

Buy or don't buy, it's your money. But please, before you (the all-inclusive, generic 'you') start another "I hate" rant, consider whether it's really the tactic that bothers you or just another incompetent execution.

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Paul Barrs

13 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

Thank you John. Saved me a ton of typing.

I love OTO's... and given that a recent one converted at over 71%... I'd suggest that my customers also loved it.

Sal

Thank you Sal for saying what I would have said

But back to the OP, come on, get real.

If your job is selling, then sell. We should never begrudge people trying to sell; it helps them pay them bills, put food on the table, live a good life etc etc.

If you part is buying, and you don't like what they are selling - DON'T BUY!! How friggin' doofus simple is that.

If the original purchase is no good on it's own and you feel that you can't use it as expected without the OTO and you don't want to pay the extra, then ask for a refund. Simple!

I can tell you now that EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT that I sell (with only one exception) will have some kind of special offer on the "thank you page"... why? Because my job is to sell. Will that offer be a "one time"? Sometimes yes, sometimes now. Who gives a ****. It will be related to your original purchase in some way and designed to help you run a better business and make more money.

To any and all who might be offended by that - fine, you continue to live below your potential I'll continue to help your competition build better businesses.

Paul Barrs

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sal64

13 years ago

Originally Posted by ephame

I really hate those OTO's that are never one time only, you will continue to see them every time you login for the rest of your life. The other terrible style is the lower price per page you click past i.e- $97 no thanks...., how about $79? no thanks...., ok ok how about $49?...

Pretty insulting to do things like this the product is probably only worth less than the 3rd price but they will continue to pressure each time you come in to the site.

Broad BS generalization. My oto's are 100% oto. What I do offer is a 2nd chance oto inside at a higher price.

Originally Posted by mikemcmillan

There is only one thing I hate more than OTOs: That's when someone runs a WSO and people ask, "Is there an OTO?"

What the hell difference does it make? It's a ridiculous question. If you strike a deal with the vendor--the asking price in exchange for the product--you have an implied contract. You cough up the payment and they deliver the product. If the product doesn't live up to what was described on the sales page--ask for a refund.

A thought: The seller has paid the $40 to run their ad. The key phrase being THEIR AD! You paid nothing to read it. I wouldn't presume to tell the seller what kind of sales funnel they should implement. Again, they paid for the ad, not you.

If, as some people say, EVERYONE here hates OTOs, there is a golden opportunity for the chronic complainers. They have the chance to run their own WSOs and use the subject line, "NO OTO, NO OTO, NO OTO... I'm an expert, buy my product."

If you're an expert, you know the power of up-sells, OTOs, down-sells, etc.

To clarify, technically an OTO comes after payment has been made but before the download has been presented. If the offer comes before payment is made it's an up-sell.

If you were a product vendor, with a family to support, bills to pay, food and gas to buy--and you had a choice of making $1,000 a week straight-selling your product, or $2,000 a week incorporating an honest but marketing oriented sales funnel (including OTOs), I would say you were doing a disservice to your family not to be a smart marketer.

Say what you will about Clickbank, the guys with the big product launches pull in big affiliates (to an extent) because they make an initial offering of $37 for their product followed by a $97 upsell, followed buy a $197 upsell (each with it's own downsell), followed by a payment and then a couple OTOs.

There are some very smart, very clever, and very motivated and experienced marketers using that sales plan. While $7 products may be the mainstay of vendors running WSOs here, a big affiliate is much more likely to promote for you in the big, ugly, real world out there if they have a chance to earn $500 per sale than a $3.00 commission on a WSO with no OTO.

Personally, I may not buy your OTO, but I'll defend anyone's right to include one in their sales funnel. Again, they paid for their ad. They have a right to do what they want as long as their advertising is honest. They owe it to no one to disclose whether they have an OTO or not.

Every time I see someone ask, "Does this product have an OTO?" I just want to stand up and shout, "It's none of your frickin' business to ask on the thread THE VENDOR PAID FOR!" Buy the product and find out. Just my feeling. I could be wrong, but it doesn't happen very often! --Mike

Gee Mike, tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back.

Originally Posted by jivens

I don't like them. It makes the customer "feel" like they're not getting everything and it makes them feel guilty for not buying into them, which i understand is the point but I don't think they're right. Tomato Tamato

You mean like the hype and fake/implied scarcity on your wso sales letter? which one is worse?

Originally Posted by Gene Pimentel

Personally, I love OTOs. They usually offer a fantastic deal.

Hey Gene, nice to see you around here.

Originally Posted by Paul Barrs

Thank you Sal for saying what I would have said

But back to the OP, come on, get real.

If your job is selling, then sell. We should never begrudge people trying to sell; it helps them pay them bills, put food on the table, live a good life etc etc.

If you part is buying, and you don't like what they are selling - DON'T BUY!! How friggin' doofus simple is that.

If the original purchase is no good on it's own and you feel that you can't use it as expected without the OTO and you don't want to pay the extra, then ask for a refund. Simple!

I can tell you now that EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT that I sell (with only one exception) will have some kind of special offer on the "thank you page"... why? Because my job is to sell. Will that offer be a "one time"? Sometimes yes, sometimes now. Who gives a ****. It will be related to your original purchase in some way and designed to help you run a better business and make more money.

To any and all who might be offended by that - fine, you continue to live below your potential I'll continue to help your competition build better businesses.

Paul Barrs

Oh well. whether people like it or not... we are in the selling game. If people have issues or guilt about this, then they are in the wrong business. Get used to it or get out.

Harsh? Maybe... maybe not.

You are in a marketing / selling forum... WTF did you expect to see happen on here?

An orgy of semi-naked vestal virgins fanning you with palms whilst feeding you grapes from a platter???

Sal

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Paul Barrs 13 years ago

Originally Posted by sal64

WTF did you expect to see happen on here?

An orgy of semi-naked vestal virgins fanning you with palms whilst feeding you grapes from a platter???

Sal

Ba ha hahahaaaa

Were you over at my place last night!??
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Chris Worner

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

[Long sigh...]

Once again, another "I hate (some tactic)" post. From the description given, once again the problem isn't in the tactic itself, but in crappy execution. If the OTO was done well and made sense, you likely would not have noticed it.

If you go back into the archives with these threads, you'll find that people hate OTO's, pop-ups, opt-ins, double opt-ins, exit pops, audios, videos, long copy, short copy, too many offers, not enough offers, too much email, long articles, short articles, etc., etc., etc, ad nausea ad infinitum.

Buy or don't buy, it's your money. But please, before you (the all-inclusive, generic 'you') start another "I hate" rant, consider whether it's really the tactic that bothers you or just another incompetent execution.

John, it is one of those days...

-Chris

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Randall Magwood

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

If you go back into the archives with these threads, you'll find that people hate OTO's, pop-ups, opt-ins, double opt-ins, exit pops, audios, videos, long copy, short copy, too many offers, not enough offers, too much email, long articles, short articles, etc., etc., etc, ad nausea ad infinitum.

Buy or don't buy, it's your money. But please, before you (the all-inclusive, generic 'you') start another "I hate" rant, consider whether it's really the tactic that bothers you or just another incompetent execution.

I have nothing to say except that this makes perfect sense.

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MP80

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

[Long sigh...]

Once again, another "I hate (some tactic)" post. From the description given, once again the problem isn't in the tactic itself, but in crappy execution. If the OTO was done well and made sense, you likely would not have noticed it.

If you go back into the archives with these threads, you'll find that people hate OTO's, pop-ups, opt-ins, double opt-ins, exit pops, audios, videos, long copy, short copy, too many offers, not enough offers, too much email, long articles, short articles, etc., etc., etc, ad nausea ad infinitum.

Buy or don't buy, it's your money. But please, before you (the all-inclusive, generic 'you') start another "I hate" rant, consider whether it's really the tactic that bothers you or just another incompetent execution.

Lol,

Could this be considered a 'I hate...' post about 'I hate...' posts? :p

Just Kidding John!

(and now I'm ducking for cover...)

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Zesh

13 years ago

Never used one myself, unless its a totally offer and I see the need for it!

I have bought WSOs myself where there have been 4 OTOs before I could access to main product!

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Joseph G Spiteri

13 years ago

They don't bother me as long as the main product is as advertize.
OTO's are part of this business and they work.
If you want to be successful you will have to use them some time yourself
so get used to them.
I under stand sometimes they do get a little frustrating when you have 3 or 4
in a row personally use max of 2.

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SoCalMarketing

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Joseph G Spiteri

They don't bother me as long as the main product is as advertize.
OTO's are part of this business and they work.
If you want to be successful you will have to use them some time yourself
so get used to them.
I under stand sometimes they do get a little frustrating when you have 3 or 4
in a row personally use max of 2.

Respectfully I beg to differ on the part "If you want to be successful you will have to use them some time yourself so get used to them."

I have purchased products from sellers who clearly state they are also opposed to OTOs, refuse to use them in their offer, and their sales numbers are not exactly dismal..

I understand that different people have different views, I am in no way attempting to convert anyone to a different point of view, just expressing mine and seeing if it is a common ground for others who are BUYERS. I know that those that sell with OTOs will disagree.. wonder why :-)

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Wilton White

13 years ago

Hello,

OTOs do have their place in the sales funnel when presented appropriately. As mentioned above, they should always enhance the value of the main product or serve as a standalone product of similar interest.

Some WSOs have proven to be nearly impossible to implement (especially for those new to IM) in the sales page time frame without the purchase of the OTO to compliment them. I believe that that is the greatest complaint regarding OTOs; the "need" for them. So, as long as the main product can live up to the sales page promises, OTOs can be seen as a welcome surprise that may allow for greater success, improved efficiency, etc.

I don't see a reduction in OTOs occurring any time soon. The successful marketers will be the ones who use them wisely.

Enjoy....

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Mark Earle

13 years ago

I think OTO's are OK provided that the seller is upfront on the comments and the original offer is intact without the OTO. Then it becomes a choice for an enhanced purchase.

I agree that it is underhand to offer a product for $7-17 only to find that it doesn't work properly or you don't have all the information without spending the OTO price. I also thought that was reserved for Clickbank and not in the true nature of the forum.

Well done for raising the issue.

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Invert Planet

13 years ago

what does OTO mean? I know it is an additional offer but not certain what the term OTO actually means...

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JohnMcCabe

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Invert Planet

what does OTO mean? I know it is an additional offer but not certain what the term OTO actually means...

OTO = One Time Offer

Originally, this was an upgrade or supplemental offer made immediately after a sale, at a special price if the buyer accepted Right Now. If not, they would not see that price again.

One ugly mutation of that concept is the one that triggered the OP's ire. Offering a WSO at a low price, and then following that with a product that is essential to accomplishing the goal laid out in the original product. It looks an awful lot like a bait-and-switch ploy.

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PAH Tim

13 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

OTO = One Time Offer

Originally, this was an upgrade or supplemental offer made immediately after a sale, at a special price if the buyer accepted Right Now. If not, they would not see that price again.

One ugly mutation of that concept is the one that triggered the OP's ire. Offering a WSO at a low price, and then following that with a product that is essential to accomplishing the goal laid out in the original product. It looks an awful lot like a bait-and-switch ploy.

Thank you for that great description, I was actually about to ask the same question about OTO. I've seen several OTO's while browsing WSO's and other forums. I would agree that they certainly have their place in sales and marketing, as in most cases they can benefit the buyer as well as the seller. But it's the people that try and force buyers into purchasing an OTO that more than likely results in threads such as this.

Originally Posted by IMnewbie63

I have seen clear indication that OTOs irritate many a buyer, not just me.. time will tell I suppose.

And in most cases, I'm going to assume this is because the seller is using the "bait-and-switch" ploy that John mentioned earlier. I believe that if an OTO is correctly executed, it would only enhance the buyers benefits and enjoyment of the original product they're choosing to purchase.

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sal64

13 years ago

I thought it meant One Thundering Orgasm.

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

OTO = One Time Offer

Originally, this was an upgrade or supplemental offer made immediately after a sale, at a special price if the buyer accepted Right Now. If not, they would not see that price again.

One ugly mutation of that concept is the one that triggered the OP's ire. Offering a WSO at a low price, and then following that with a product that is essential to accomplishing the goal laid out in the original product. It looks an awful lot like a bait-and-switch ploy.

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xxxJamesxxx

13 years ago

what does OTO mean? I know it is an additional offer but not certain what the term OTO actually means...

One Time Offer

James

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Phil Ainsworth

13 years ago

If you went to your nearest McDonald's and ordered a burger and a drink, would you hate the employee for offering you fries, to go with your meal?

If you were shopping in your local supermarket, and saw a sign that "offered" you 3 bottles of ketchup for the price of 2... would you curse them for trying to upsell you?

An upsell on a WSO that offers you more value, for more of a cost... is a choice for you to take... Very often, "done-for you" solutions or things like "developers licenses" allow you more success, faster... so it's RIGHT they should cost more... IF they provide you with more value....

However... a OTO along the lines of "this is the missing piece of the puzzle and the system is incomplete / wont work without buying this as well"... that's LOW and gives all of us a bad name. Personally, I wouldn't ever do that.

Ultimately, providing a customer with more value, will make you more money. That's why people use the tactic.

As my friend above writes... it's all in the execution.

Phil

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SoCalMarketing

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Phil Ainsworth

If you went to your nearest McDonald's and ordered a burger and a drink, would you hate the employee for offering you fries, to go with your meal?

If you were shopping in your local supermarket, and saw a sign that "offered" you 3 bottles of ketchup for the price of 2... would you curse them for trying to upsell you?

An upsell on a WSO that offers you more value, for more of a cost... is a choice for you to take... Very often, "done-for you" solutions or things like "developers licenses" allow you more success, faster... so it's RIGHT they should cost more... IF they provide you with more value....

However... a OTO along the lines of "this is the missing piece of the puzzle and the system is incomplete / wont work without buying this as well"... that's LOW and gives all of us a bad name. Personally, I wouldn't ever do that.

Ultimately, providing a customer with more value, will make you more money. That's why people use the tactic.

As my friend above writes... it's all in the execution.

Phil

I just want to make something clear.. I am not "cursing" anyone or "hating" anyone.. this is not a personal attack on any person but just my opinion on a practice that as others have pointed out, is often poorly executed. The forum is a free market environment.. and every seller is entitled to use whatever practice they see fit to sell their goods and services. The marketplace will dictate if it is acceptable to the buyer or not.. I have seen clear indication that OTOs irritate many a buyer, not just me.. time will tell I suppose.

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beakbane

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Phil Ainsworth

If you went to your nearest McDonald's and ordered a burger and a drink, would you hate the employee for offering you fries, to go with your meal?

If you were shopping in your local supermarket, and saw a sign that "offered" you 3 bottles of ketchup for the price of 2... would you curse them for trying to upsell you?

An upsell on a WSO that offers you more value, for more of a cost... is a choice for you to take... Very often, "done-for you" solutions or things like "developers licenses" allow you more success, faster... so it's RIGHT they should cost more... IF they provide you with more value....

However... a OTO along the lines of "this is the missing piece of the puzzle and the system is incomplete / wont work without buying this as well"... that's LOW and gives all of us a bad name. Personally, I wouldn't ever do that.

Ultimately, providing a customer with more value, will make you more money. That's why people use the tactic.

As my friend above writes... it's all in the execution.

Phil

I agree with your there.I do not mind most oto's as long as they are not expensive and anyway they are a normal way of doing business as stated.

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oda

13 years ago

I personally don't like the term OTO.

Its a load of crap and everyone knows it, What marketer is going to say NO to someone that contacts them 2 days after buying the main product and asks for access to the OTO as they didn't buy it at the Time.

In My Limited experience I find my UPSELLS (that is what they are) sell better in the follow up emails and after sales care.

I let people know there is an offer and they are welcome to take it up at their leisure.

My True OTO pages never did any good as once the buyer closed it they could Never see that page again. I was just answering emails and support asking "where did that Page go"

Again MY OPINION is that if your doing a TRUE OTO it would be very limited and involve things like personal coaching etc.

I like the WSO's that offer the different License levels etc on the sales page.

Personal use $7

Your own sites $17

Developers license $37

That way I can make a decision on where I am going with this product and pay for the right license upfront without B.S.

This is just my opinion, as I said OTO is not the right name, its an UPSELL in my book. Very few One time offers I have seen are actually one time offers, you can buy them whenever you like.

Oda

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nadal619

13 years ago

personally I don't hate them
but what will irritates me , if you cannot use the actual product with OTO.

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davejug1

13 years ago

I go along with the party line on this one. Providing the OTO offered is not integral to the success of the original product then I have no problem.

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ephame

13 years ago

I really hate those OTO's that are never one time only, you will continue to see them every time you login for the rest of your life. The other terrible style is the lower price per page you click past i.e- $97 no thanks...., how about $79? no thanks...., ok ok how about $49?...

Pretty insulting to do things like this the product is probably only worth less than the 3rd price but they will continue to pressure each time you come in to the site.

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ShaneGorry

13 years ago

When looking at a sales page I usually consider if there will be a OTO (which there usually is) and if it's likely to be a necessary part of making the product work, how much is it likely to cost and would I like to pay the total cost to get the total product.

That being said I really don't purchase much of anything these days apart from services and they by their nature usually don't have OTOs. They usually have different price options if anything, and they are usually stated up front.

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Jeff Henshaw 13 years ago

Each to his own. Sorry, each to his or her own!

Most has been already said in the thread.

If you don't want the OTO or whatever follows, don't purchase it/them - just move on to the download page and enjoy the product that you bought.

Personally, I like the OTO, it's like a mystery option - you know one will appear - but how useful to my business will it be?

Sometimes very useful, so I grab it with open arms. Sometimes it is of no use to me - so I ignore it. It's no big deal. I spend more time deleting Spam emails than I spend reading OTOs.

Just my thoughts,
Jeff.
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jivens

Banned 13 years ago

I don't like them. It makes the customer "feel" like they're not getting everything and it makes them feel guilty for not buying into them, which i understand is the point but I don't think they're right. Tomato Tamato

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ryanmilligan

Banned 13 years ago

I always offer OTO's but I put the link to the download for the product purchased at the bottom of the page. I then let the buyer know this, so if the buyer doesn't want the OTO they can just go straight to the bottom of the page. But if they are intrested then they can read the sales page.

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mikemcmillan

13 years ago

There is only one thing I hate more than OTOs: That's when someone runs a WSO and people ask, "Is there an OTO?"

What the hell difference does it make? It's a ridiculous question. If you strike a deal with the vendor--the asking price in exchange for the product--you have an implied contract. You cough up the payment and they deliver the product. If the product doesn't live up to what was described on the sales page--ask for a refund.

A thought: The seller has paid the $40 to run their ad. The key phrase being THEIR AD! You paid nothing to read it. I wouldn't presume to tell the seller what kind of sales funnel they should implement. Again, they paid for the ad, not you.

If, as some people say, EVERYONE here hates OTOs, there is a golden opportunity for the chronic complainers. They have the chance to run their own WSOs and use the subject line, "NO OTO, NO OTO, NO OTO... I'm an expert, buy my product."

If you're an expert, you know the power of up-sells, OTOs, down-sells, etc.

To clarify, technically an OTO comes after payment has been made but before the download has been presented. If the offer comes before payment is made it's an up-sell.

If you were a product vendor, with a family to support, bills to pay, food and gas to buy--and you had a choice of making $1,000 a week straight-selling your product, or $2,000 a week incorporating an honest but marketing oriented sales funnel (including OTOs), I would say you were doing a disservice to your family not to be a smart marketer.

Say what you will about Clickbank, the guys with the big product launches pull in big affiliates (to an extent) because they make an initial offering of $37 for their product followed by a $97 upsell, followed buy a $197 upsell (each with it's own downsell), followed by a payment and then a couple OTOs.

There are some very smart, very clever, and very motivated and experienced marketers using that sales plan. While $7 products may be the mainstay of vendors running WSOs here, a big affiliate is much more likely to promote for you in the big, ugly, real world out there if they have a chance to earn $500 per sale than a $3.00 commission on a WSO with no OTO.

Personally, I may not buy your OTO, but I'll defend anyone's right to include one in their sales funnel. Again, they paid for their ad. They have a right to do what they want as long as their advertising is honest. They owe it to no one to disclose whether they have an OTO or not.

Every time I see someone ask, "Does this product have an OTO?" I just want to stand up and shout, "It's none of your frickin' business to ask on the thread THE VENDOR PAID FOR!" Buy the product and find out. Just my feeling. I could be wrong, but it doesn't happen very often! --Mike

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MP80

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mikemcmillan

There is only one thing I hate more than OTOs: That's when someone runs a WSO and people ask, "Is there an OTO?"

What the hell difference does it make?

Mike,

It may make a difference if the buyer has just enough funds to cover the cost of the product, and not the OTO. They may want to know so that they can transfer funds into their account and avoid missing out.

Max.

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mikemcmillan

13 years ago

Originally Posted by MP80

Mike,
It may make a difference if the buyer has just enough funds to cover the cost of the product, and not the OTO. They may want to know so that they can transfer funds into their account and avoid missing out.
Max.

Point well taken, Max.

I had too much Kielbasa with garlic, onions and hot peppers the other night. Had to blow off some of the hot air it generated.

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MarlboroMonkey

13 years ago

It's kind of a cancer imo. OTOs and fake/gushing reviews...

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bamstk090

13 years ago

OTO have good conversion but I rarely use it

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DPM70

13 years ago

Is it only me that still thinks of an OTO as an On-Target-Opening? Hehe makes no sense but at least I haven't spent any money on them.

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mlord10

13 years ago

I have no issue whatsoever with an OTO provided the original product delivers on its promise. I find it quite laughable that marketers would have a "problem" with a tactic that when used properly provides additional value to the consumer & helps the marketer make more money.

If the OTO provides value that the purchaser can truly benefit from, then it is a win-win situation...the purchaser certainly does NOT have to buy the OTO! As long as the original product stands on its own merit, it is a non issue as far as I am concerned.

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Gene Pimentel

13 years ago

Personally, I love OTOs. They usually offer a fantastic deal.

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Tenzho

13 years ago

I don't like OTO, especially when the price of OTO is higher than the main WSO.

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joseph7384 11 years ago

Originally Posted by Tenzho

I don't like OTO, especially when the price of OTO is higher than the main WSO.

If it were lower than the front end product, it wouldn't be an upsell now would it.
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SoCalMarketing

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Bellatraxx

I love oto's if they add value and I hate them if you have to buy them in order to make the course work.

I agree that if the OTO "adds value" is a good thing as well as the frustration of finding out that you can get the $7 early bird price but unless you spend the additional $27, you essentially buy the proverbial "paperweight".

What I see happening is many sellers actually using these OTOs as bait and switch.. I agree with many who have expressed that OTOs in the spirit in which I think is the original concept, an offer that does add value, that is quite different than how I am seeing the concept being implemented.

I have bought thousands of dollars in WSOs, many great ones with no OTO/bait and switch. As for me, I will only support those sellers who stay away from this practice.

I have been in the sales and marketing business and have done quite well and continue to do so in an industry in which the bait and switch is the norm, and it is well known. I have NEVER used the concept, my customers always know upfront what they are going to get and it NEVER changes in the purchase cycle. I have extremely loyal customers and the main reason is because they all know that when I give them a price, I deliver at EXACTLY that or better.

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Tom B

Banned 13 years ago

I really don't understand why this is so complicated to some people.

There is no reason to worry about a oto when purchasing. You base your decision to purchase on what is being offered. If you get what they offer after you purchase then it is a good transaction. If you don't get what was offered then it is a bad transaction.

It isn't difficult to comprehend yet people still complain. This has nothing to do with a OTO.

Please take some responsibility for your purchase habits. If you purchase a product saying you can make millions for only $7 then don't come here and rant about being taken advantage of.

Sounds like you are buyer and not a seller. Stop buying and start selling. This is a marketing forum not a "What I hate about buying stuff" forum.

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SoCalMarketing

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap

I really don't understand why this is so complicated to some people.

There is no reason to worry about a oto when purchasing. You base your decision to purchase on what is being offered. If you get what they offer after you purchase then it is a good transaction. If you don't get what was offered then it is a bad transaction.

It isn't difficult to comprehend yet people still complain. This has nothing to do with a OTO.

Please take some responsibility for your purchase habits. If you purchase a product saying you can make millions for only $7 then don't come here and rant about being taken advantage of.

Sounds like you are buyer and not a seller. Stop buying and start selling. This is a marketing forum not a "What I hate about buying stuff" forum.

"Stop buying and start selling"... mhhh, why didn't I think of that!

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Boogie40 13 years ago

I can say that there's nothing wrong with OTO offers to me because I can always say no to them and finish completing my purchase.
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chris1093

13 years ago

I believe if they are done right they are only a slight annoyance because they can be a great offer enticing me to spend more.

They are no good when undisclosed in the sales page or vital to the success of the WSO. That does not seem fair to me.

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juninhop

13 years ago

OTOs are only bad if they are required to make the original product do its job and plus its un-ethical in my opinion.
However, an OTO can be very useful if for example it helps you do your main task of the product, faster/easier.

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protectyoursales

13 years ago

As I think has been said pretty clearly, I think the problem with an OTO comes from the marketer, not the actual technique. You really can't tell off anybody just for using a marketing technique when we're on a marketing forum. And if you think an OTO is bad, then you now know not to buy from that vendor again because they don't fit your taste… Lesson learned.

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lovefadge

13 years ago

Anyone who says they "hate OTO's" has clearly never made money as an affiliate marketer online because I personally LOVE OTO'S!!

OTO's are often the difference between making $200 and $2000 when you are dealing with good levels of traffic so just remember that and if you are a product owner and you don't have them you're leaving a MASSIVE amount of cash on the table.

When you say you hate OTO's, I'd say look at it from the money point of view as a product owner or an affiliate marketer, would you rather have $200 in your back pocket or $2000 from the same level of traffic?

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NACAdam

13 years ago

every smart marketer uses OTOs so should you in your own marketer as long as there is a guarantee there should be no problem

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ShayB 13 years ago

OTO's aren't "good" or "bad."

If an OTO is offered and it will help your biz/it's a good value/you can afford it --> it's good.

If it sucks--> it's bad.

If it's awesome and you can't afford it--> that doesn't make it a bad offer. It's just out of your price range.

Some OTO's I always buy. An example? There is a PLR person I purchase from. I know that he ALWAYS has a WP theme and such for an OTO. I always buy it because it's a fantastic deal, and the investment makes me money.

Other people I never buy an OTO from.

Most people are in the middle - it depends on the offer and what I plan on using it for.
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- jamescanz 11 years ago
  
  OTO's are what separate the chumps from champs when it comes to a funnel.
  
  Just imagine if McDonald's never introduced "Would you like fries with that?"
  
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  JohnMcCabe 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by jamescanz
  
  OTO's are what separate the chumps from champs when it comes to a funnel.
  
  Just imagine if McDonald's never introduced "Would you like fries with that?"
  
  It works for McDonalds because they know when to quit.
  
  They don't ask "would you like fries with that? Okay how about an apple pie? A shake? How about a salad?" and keep going through the entire menu. I've seen so many upsells, downsells and cross-sells crammed into a funnel that it's a wonder people can recall the original product. And then they wonder why people bail on them...
  
  Besides, the fries example isn't a true OTO. If you say no today and hit the drive-through again tomorrow, they'll give you another chance. Too many people forget that OTO stands for One Time Offer.
  
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  JohnTheJock 11 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by jamescanz
  
  OTO's are what separate the chumps from champs when it comes to a funnel.
  
  Just imagine if McDonald's never introduced "Would you like fries with that?"
  
  It's fine by me if McDonalds ask "Would you like fries with that" ... ONCE.
  
  If they asked me 3 times I would walk out.
  
  ONE OTO is acceptable, if it gets to 3 I'm already thinking refund
  
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Super Warrior

13 years ago

I don't have any problem in OTOs.

It's just like a waiter asking 'anything else?' when you've already ordered something... hehehe!

-Steve

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KimW

13 years ago

I deteat OTOs.
I know,I know they make the seller more monrey.They make me feel ripped off,like I am not getting the total package unless I pay the additional fee.
I actually have a very short report I am about to publish that includes something about this
But let me give you a clue. To all you marketers.Sell me decent products that work for once price, stop thinking of me as your own personal ATM.

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brutecky 11 years ago

Originally Posted by KimW

But let me give you a clue. To all you marketers.Sell me decent products that work for once price, stop thinking of me as your own personal ATM.

To all you buyers. If the front end offer is not a decent product at a decent price then why buy it? And if you dont buy the front end then what does the OTO matter? Also you would be shocked what a 'decent price' really is for most products. Do you really think $17 - $37 for a software, WP plugin, or membership site that took 200 man hours in coding to develop is a 'decent price'? On average you can expect to pay $50 an hour for a coder. Graphics designers cost another $30 or so per hour. Support time costs money. WSO's themselves are not free.

Here is an example: I recently did a WSO that is a membership site that includes 16 different Facebook apps. I sold front end lifetime memberships for a one time price of $27. Between development, graphics, support costs and hosting do you think people who bought where my personal ATM? Not really. Yes this had an OTO. And yes the only money I made from the entire WSO after costs was from the OTO sales. I could have charged a 'decent price' from the start but then 437 Warriors (dozens of who thanked me for the quality of my product) would have lost out an a deal for a software priced so low that I didnt even profit from the sale.
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AppsFromHome

13 years ago

Sometimes I get irritated when I come across multiple OTO's that are other peoples offers or seem to give no value added benefit to the product.

However, if someone gives you a solid business plan for ten bucks, then offers to really dive into the nitty gritty details and resources for an extra $20....your essentially getting a full business plan for $30 that could mean the world of difference to your success - isn't that worth it?

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barbling

13 years ago

I have no problem with OTOs.

That's like me having a problem with McDonalds asking me if I want cheese with my burger.

I am confident enough in me own knowledge that I can tell if an OTO will actually help me save time/money or just eat up me cash.

YMMV, of course....

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SoCalMarketing

12 years ago

Well.. it's been a while since I posted this. I have noticed that the way OTOs are done has changed over those months. Most sellers still include OTOs or upsells of some sort but most of them are now being very upfront that there is an OTO and.. surprise!: Most disclose the price upfront!. It also seems that as I read through the WSOs, buyers are not as irritated with the process any more.

I remember more than one WSO with a seemingly decent product being derailed by the angry comments regarding the poor way in which the OTO issue was being handled.

OTO process has evolved based on consumer demands.. imagine that!

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EdVictor791

12 years ago

I love one time offer's...they give me the opportunity to get the best bang for your buck (most of the time)

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discrat 11 years ago

OTOs are just for your own product creations ? Not for affiliate Marketing ?

I know I like to have people Optin for my free report and then be sent to a URL thank you page that says "Thanks and you can get your free report download right now in your email. But by the way you can get a head start and check out my personal review on a stellar product that might help you etc..etc.. with the link below " (something to that effect)

Then at the end of my personal review I give them the affiliate link to the Product.

I know this is not an OTO but is there a particular term you call this in email marketing ?
This is just affiliate products I do this for.
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wikiklix

11 years ago

Maybe they have a place but as long as the main product doesn't reply on the oto. I also don't like the one time offer name its so overused.

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brutecky

11 years ago

Originally Posted by SoCalMarketing

However, when you sell an intro product that is only 20% of what the full product is without the OTO, that is underhanded in my opinion. I have opted not to buy several products which I would consider very good products based on the offer and the testimonials, however as soon as I see the OTO comments, I move on.

Ill be brutally honest. The whole complaint about OTOs is just silly. First off what does the price difference between the front end and the OTO matter. If the front end price is $1 and its a good offer buy it. If the OTO is $1000 and its a good offer buy it (if its not dont)

I have done several WSO's .. each one was a real discount on a product I sell successfully else where and it really irks me when people ask "Is there an OTO" .. I always think to myself .. "that does not matter to you in any way at this point because its not yet available to you, make your purchase decision based on what you see and the price presented to you, if you like the offer buy it if not dont"

Think of an OTO like a coupon at the checkout counter of a store. You buy product X and when they print your receipt they also print a coupon for a different product. A OTO is similar. Its a second discount offered because you made a prior purchase (the front end) You would not go to a store and ask the clerk .. well if I buy this X what coupon will I get printed at the register would you? No thats silly. What you would do is base your decision to buy product X on if you feel its a good value for the money.

Also that statement about not buying a product you actually want because there is an OTO is quite frankly the silliest thing I have heard this year (I know we are only 10 weeks into the year). You basically just said to the clerk.. I like product X, I like the price, and I want to buy it .. but Im not going to because you are going to print a coupon for me at the checkout counter. Insane!

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robvegas626

11 years ago

The OTOs are how marketers are making their WSOs profitable these days, since prices have been driven down so much. There's nothing wrong with OTOs (even if they might be a little bit annoying) -- EXCEPT if the OTO is billed as something that is necessary in order to achieve the results promised by the front-end offer.

The OTO should stand on its own. It can promise to "accelerate" results, or give "even better" results, but the front-end offer should be able to do, on its own, whatever is promised in its sales copy.

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robvegas626

11 years ago

From the marketer's perspective, there is no better time to offer a higher-priced product than the moment where a customer is in full-on "buying" mode. If you were to pitch that same product to them a day (or an hour) later, they could be in a completely different mindset. Many marketers consider their front-end product as simply a way to get people in the door, to view their OTOs (or get them signed up to a monthly continuity program).

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dmarc

11 years ago

Nearly a year and a half between edvictor's post and discrat's, yet if you didn't read the date's, you'd never know there was that kind of gap in the conversation. Just goes to show, that no matter how you feel about OTOs and upsells, they're here to stay.

If they are high quality and useful, but not necessary to implement the original offer, then what's the big deal? If you don't want it, just don't buy it.