2 Types of Newbies: IGNORANT and...

15 years ago

I would like to add another type...

Insolent - disrespectful, knowing it all, rude, flippant

This is the type of person who comes in thinking they know it all, and is quick to argue with advice given to help. The better the advice, the ruder they get.

All the best,
Michael

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I would like to add another type...

Insolent - disrespectful, knowing it all, rude, flippant

This is the type of person who comes in thinking they know it all, and is quick to argue with advice given to help. The better the advice, the ruder they get.

All the best,
Michael

Rude? People get rude here?

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LegitIncomes

15 years ago

I'd like to add LAZY to the list.

3-4hrs per day of work is not a lot folks.

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Tina Golden

15 years ago

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

Josh, indolent means lazy basically.

The worst are the ones who are indolent and insolent. Such a combination makes for a sad, pathetic human being.

Peter, I don't think it's extremely rare that someone becomes a serious student. It's another situation where the vocal minority seems larger than it is because they don't know how to shut up.

Tina G

Tina,
Indolent + Insolent = Intolerable. (I was thinking the same thing when Michael added that category.)

I hope you are right about there being a silent majority of Serious Students.

I'm guessing with the state of the economy and the increasing layoffs, the ranks of the Serious Students will begin growing rapidly.

Michael - I really like that new category: Inspired. Good one!

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dwshoup

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PeterDudek

Tina,
Indolent + Insolent = Intolerable. (I was thinking the same thing when Michael added that category.)

I hope you are right about there being a silent majority of Serious Students.

I'm guessing with the state of the economy and the increasing layoffs, the ranks of the Serious Students will begin growing rapidly.

Michael - I really like that new category: Inspired. Good one!

I will be honest with you here. Many of you warriors would consider me a newbie as there is a lot that I don't know how to do. For example I have had 3 sites in the past 4 1/2 years. The newest one is one I built from scratch, didn't like it and used a template, then heard about "footprints" and am redoing it from scratch again. I have not had any training in how to use the programs needed to do this only heard about dreamweaver being better than front page and started using it. My previous reply to this thread shows my daily work ethic. The Problem is, I have been involved in IM for over 4 years and only recently heard about the WF. Until this past 6 mos. could not find any successful IMer willing to share not only what but how to do what is needed to make it without spending more than your monthly mortgage. I knew long ago that this was the road to take but when trial and error is the only way it takes a very long time. I may sound a little bitter but it is 1:15 am now and am tired I just wanted to sway that many are willing to work if given direction but so many that seem to know also seem to be afraid of the competition so are unwilling to help unless it involves a big paycheck.

Thank God for the few I have found this winter that realize that competition is not a problem on the Internet. In your town maybe, but not on the Internet.

May God have mercy on me if I ever withhold what I have learned from someone that cannot afford a gurus mentoring course because I am afraid of competition.

I apologize for the rant but I love the WF and have found some great people here. Unfortunately I have also seen some sanctimonious BS here as well and when I am tired I don't always think clearly.

I just needed to get this off my chest for all the "budding" IMer's out there.

Doesn't that sound better than "noob" or "newbie"? Lets do something unnatural and give the benefit of the doubt until an individual shows they don't deserve it.

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by dwshoup

I have been involved in IM for over 4 years and only recently heard about the WF. Until this past 6 mos. could not find any successful IMer willing to share not only what but how to do what is needed to make it without spending more than your monthly mortgage.

What impresses me most about what you said is your tenacity.

You mentioned you built three sites but you didn't give any specifics about your success level.

Have you had any success with those sites?

I'm guessing you have had SOME encouragement to keep going for 4.5 years.

However the general tone of your comments leads me to believe you are discouraged.

What would you say is your biggest challenge right now?

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dwshoup

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PeterDudek

What impresses me most about what you said is your tenacity.

You mentioned you built three sites but you didn't give any specifics about your success level.

Have you had any success with those sites?

I'm guessing you have had SOME encouragement to keep going for 4.5 years.

However the general tone of your comments leads me to believe you are discouraged.

What would you say is your biggest challenge right now?

My biggest challenge to this point has been finding someone willing to show "HOW" to do it, not just willing to sell me a book that says "WHAT" to do. As I stated I didn't have any instruction on how to use dreamweaver, or any other html editor I just went in and trial and error created my third site. I am in the process of doing a third tweak to it as I found out about "footprints" from templates and dont know the ethics of anyone else that may have used the same template. Now it is traffic generation so will go with an affiliate site to list my product as I was advised to do. As I said I work extremely long hours and so appologize to any warriors that may have been offended by my post last night however, if you look at some of the posts you must agree that there are many that could give IM a bad name. The general public has a very low opinion of this industry as I can attest to from when my gf found out just a little bit about it. She is now just watching to see how I conduct my business to see if there is any integrity in this business at all. Frustrated? At times yes. Thinking of giving up? Never. This is a very good way to make a very good living. It is just difficult to find those willing to give a hand up. Some are asking for a hand out, MOST just want a hand up.

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PeterDudek 15 years ago

Originally Posted by dwshoup

My biggest challenge to this point has been finding someone willing to show "HOW" to do it, not just willing to sell me a book that says "WHAT" to do.

I sent you a private message about this.
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Henry White

13 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I would like to add another type...

Insolent - disrespectful, knowing it all, rude, flippant

This is the type of person who comes in thinking they know it all, and is quick to argue with advice given to help. The better the advice, the ruder they get.

All the best,
Michael

From public speaking and corporate training, I know first-hand that people are either going to "get it" or not. Among those who do, you're either giving them something brand new to think about or clear up issues they've been trying to resolve for some time.

With those who don't "get it" - and maybe never will - you have those who are going to be totally dependent on others, the ones who read all the books, attend all the seminars, etc.; and on the opposite end of that spectrum the ones who are too independent for their own good, the ones who wouldn't read a book if their life depended upon it, or attend a seminar, accept help, or take advice.

Still, we're all unique, with endless permutations, and over time we may drift from one group into another, so it's very complicated to give any hard and fast rules for how to cope with them other than as individuals. If they reject it, move on without guilt. Maybe they'll be ready later, maybe with someone else, or maybe not.

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

To add a positive one to the list...

Inspired. Has the right idea, ready to do what it takes, and consider advice from those who are doing well.

All the best,
Michael

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darryl-thomas

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

To add a positive one to the list...

Inspired. Has the right idea, ready to do what it takes, and consider advice from those who are doing well.

All the best,
Michael

niiiiice...i like this one

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dwshoup

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

To add a positive one to the list...

Inspired. Has the right idea, ready to do what it takes, and consider advice from those who are doing well.

All the best,
Michael

so far this is the best post in this thread. I must admit that with the original post I thought it to be rather egotistical and could not see the point of it, however as he closed the post i could see that he left an obvious conclusion that some will truly start to work and learn. It is true that most get into IM because they believe they can throw a site up and make instant riches. Few are willing to put in the hours that I do. I still have a just-over-broke. Between that and my business I work from 7 a.m. to midnight m-f and average 6-8 hours on sat and sun. The hours are strenuous but the reward will be great. I have been involved in IM of one type or another for over 4yrs and have not had a single failure, just found several ways not to do it. I am on the right track now and am applying what I have learned and share it with others to spread the knowledge.

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Roey Pimentel

15 years ago

Your observations unfortunately can be applied to so many aspects of our world today. But just try and focus on the few that are going to turn that spark into a shining star. Focus and nurture those who are the rare and will eventually make our industry stronger. Their learning journey will energize us - both the newbies and the veterans - and those relationships will carry us forward with endless new possibilities. The weak and "fake" are inconsequential and not worth exerting the negative energy. Find the "real newbies" and mentor.

Peace,

Roey.

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RobRamos

15 years ago

The information on this thread has helped me immensely and I thank you all for posting.
Question: I can follow a book better than I can follow any web content. Do you guys know of a good book that would help me move from "ignorant" to "serious student"

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by RobRamos

The information on this thread has helped me immensely and I thank you all for posting.
Question: I can follow a book better than I can follow any web content. Do you guys know of a good book that would help me move from "ignorant" to "serious student"

Rob,

There are TONS of good books out there. Tell me a little bit about yourself and your goals and I'll be better able to give you some recommendations.

Peter

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Killer Joe 15 years ago

Let's not forget the insolvent ones. There seems to be a lot of them, as well. :rolleyes:

KJ
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- PeterDudek 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Killer Joe
  
  Let's not forget the insolvent ones. There seems to be a lot of them, as well. :rolleyes:
  
  KJ
  
  That is SO funny!
  
  So let's review. Now there are 5 types of Newbies:
  
  Ignorant
  
  Indolent
  
  Insolent
  
  Inspired
  
  Insolvent
  
  Actually, with things the way they are, being Insolvent is no laughing matter.
  
  Having been put out of business overnight TWICE while being engaged in purely White Hat strategies, and having a wife and six children depending on me...I can relate to the stresses of being Insolvent.
  
  And I'm aware that even though things are great right now, they can turn ugly literally overnight.
  
  Hence, my dedication to being a Serious Student of this industry no matter how much I make.
  
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- ohgworld 15 years ago
  
  Loved reading this post ... all that was said is very true!
  
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RobRamos

15 years ago

Peter,

I joined a Network Marketing business a little while ago and I quickly found the traditional methods not working for me. After doing research online I found people like Jonathan Budd who explained Web 2.0 marketing and lead capture pages and the like. So I am slowly building up my skills on building squeeze pages, making videos, and just learning all I can. I am a college grad with a degree in Graphic Design. I work for Flower City Printing as a plate mker, getting steady promotions. So I'm just looking for a book on creating squeeze pages or Internet Marketing in General.

Thanks
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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by RobRamos

Peter,

I joined a Network Marketing business a little while ago and I quickly found the traditional methods not working for me. After doing research online I found people like Jonathan Budd who explained Web 2.0 marketing and lead capture pages and the like. So I am slowly building up my skills on building squeeze pages, making videos, and just learning all I can. I am a college grad with a degree in Graphic Design. I work for Flower City Printing as a plate mker, getting steady promotions. So I'm just looking for a book on creating squeeze pages or Internet Marketing in General.

Rob,

So is your goal to use Internet Marketing to further your Network Marketing career?

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qubex

15 years ago

I believe that many newcomers never get anything accomplished because they never think they're ready. When I first started doing this, which wasn't all that long ago, I was so frustrated by all the information that "Internet Marketers" were throwing at me. Eventually, I just said 'f*#k it' and dove in head first.

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Tyler Ellison

15 years ago

I remember when I was a noobie. Sometimes it's tempting to become insolent when the non-noobs treat you with disrespect. It happened to me several times because I was ignorant. I just didn't know.

The temptation to lash out to defend our pride can drive us to insolence. I don't think I ever lashed out at anybody because I was humble enough to know I was wrong, but I can't say I didn't imagine myself tearing into some people for some of the rude and disrespectful things they said to me.

Experienced members have an obligation to be patient with n00bs. Everybody has to start sometime and there's a lot to learn getting into this industry. Little things like hitting the thanks button on a post you really liked, even from a n00b, is part of being responsible experienced members.

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Tina Golden

15 years ago

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Tyler Ellison

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

When you come in here and break the rules in your first three threads, you have to expect a certain amount of backlash.

With that 'you' I'm sure you didn't mean me personally.

But it's just that. For many people, the warrior forum is the first forum they ever participate in. Sometimes we experienced members just come down too hard on the new folks. I've learned to be much more patient. The backlash is expected, but let's not become snobs just because of time on the forum or post counts. That's all I'm saying.

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by VideoEpidemic

With that 'you' I'm sure you didn't mean me personally.

But it's just that. For many people, the warrior forum is the first forum they ever participate in. Sometimes we experienced members just come down too hard on the new folks. I've learned to be much more patient. The backlash is expected, but let's not become snobs just because of time on the forum or post counts. That's all I'm saying.

I like your attitude. It seems like there are some people in this forum who take great delight in being mean-spirited.

They seem to be very quick to make personal attacks.

It's sad really. Both for the attacked newbie and for the attacking snob. Neither is well served by the practice.

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Loren Woirhaye

15 years ago

I liked the way you expressed this. I ran across this tidbit
recently and quoted it in an autoresponder I'm working on:

- "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those
who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn,
unlearn, and relearn." - Alvin Toffler

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fred67

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PeterDudek

In my opinion, there are two types of Internet Marketing Newbies: IGNORANT NEWBIES and INDOLENT NEWBIES.

Definitions:
ig-no-rant -adjective
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned

in-do-lent -adjective
1. having or showing a disposition to avoid exertion; slothful

To clarify...

1. IGNORANT NEWBIES: People who are being exposed to Internet Marketing for the first time and have no idea how to do basic things like: Buy a Domain Name, Build a Web Site, Drive Traffic or Write Sales Copy. There's nothing wrong with being ignorant. Everyone has to start from the beginning. The cure for ignorance is easy: True Education.

2. INDOLENT NEWBIES: People who think all they have to do is keep buying ebooks and courses and attending seminars thinking somehow, someday, they'll be rich like the Gurus. There is no excuse for being indolent. These are people who have been around the IM world for quite a while but have yet to make any significant money. Indolent Newbies are often guilty taking up valuable forum space and reading time by whining and complaining and should stop doing both.

More often than not, Ignorant Newbies eventually do one of two things:
1. Quit.
2. Turn into Indolent Newbies.

In VERY RARE instances, a Newbie turns into a Serious Student of Internet Marketing (making money along the way) who then becomes a Rich Internet Entrepreneur who then becomes a Wealthy Internet Business Owner.

A Serious Student of Internet Marketing is not afraid to:
• Spend money on their education.
• Spend money on trial and error while "learning the ropes."
• Spend time LEARNING and WORKING.

A Serious Student realizes that the Internet is indeed a way to Get Rich Quick but also realizes that "QUICK" doesn't mean "Overnight With Zero Effort."

"Quick" might mean months or even a few years. But Internet Marketing is definitely a way almost any determined and resourceful person can earn more money than with almost any "job" out there.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong. I frequently am.

By the way, like I said earlier, there is no shame in being Ignorant. We are ALL ignorant of SOMETHING. That is why even though I make a very comfortable living online, I will ALWAYS consider myself to be a Serious Student of Internet Marketing.

P.S. If you are reading this, I hope you either:
A. Know you have "The Right Stuff" because you are already on the VERY RARE path, OR YOU...
B. Just got motivated to stop being Ignorant or Indolent and get yourself ON that path.

Best wishes to your success. May you make many millions!

I read this post out of boredom, and the title got my attention as I thought; "here we go...another self-rightuous Warrior looking for some self-adulation"

I feel quite pleased that I got it right. Newbies to ANY forum go there to look for relative information and positive help. Only then will they know if they're up for the challenge.
Some pop in now and again for 'sociable' reasons. Giving and receiving advice on a variety of subjects.

I find it hard to believe ANY newbie would come to the Warrior forum, (which has a very high online profile), to be called names by some herbert with his head up his own A*** so far that he can't smell the coffee.

Enough said I'm sure :-)

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Karen Blundell

15 years ago

Originally Posted by fred67

I read this post out of boredom, and the title got my attention as I thought; "here we go...another self-rightuous Warrior looking for some self-adulation"

I feel quite pleased that I got it right. Newbies to ANY forum go there to look for relative information and positive help. Only then will they know if they're up for the challenge.
Some pop in now and again for 'sociable' reasons. Giving and receiving advice on a variety of subjects.

I find it hard to believe ANY newbie would come to the Warrior forum, (which has a very high online profile), to be called names by some herbert with his head up his own A*** so far that he can't smell the coffee.

Enough said I'm sure :-)

I'm with Fred on this one!

Peter, do you know how arrogant and judgemental you sound? You really do. "Do not judge lest ye be judged"...
See what happened because of your post? I've judged you to be unkind and arrogant.

To call newbies either ignorant or indolent -- either one is insulting, imho. They are people and they deserve your respect, newbie or not. A "newbie" can possibly teach you a thing or 2, perhaps not about marketing, but probably about something else that you have no knowledge of.

Putting labels on people is just as bad as racisim, do you not know that? That is what you have done, and in one stupid self-righteous post you've probably pissed off a lot of newcomers. If I was a "newbie" (which I'm not despite the fact I've only been a member here since the summer), I would think, who does this guy think he is?:rolleyes:

I suspect you posted this on purpose to stir stuff up because controversy is your schtick...according to the label beneath your name...well, remember, posts on this board get indexed by Google really fast, so the whole world will know soon enough what you're really like. Think about that!

I believe kindness and patience are necessary when teaching anything to anyone, and most people thrive when treated properly and with respect.

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jimrpips

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Karen Blundell

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jimrpips

Oh waaah.

Your kindergarten teacher lied to you. You are not "special just because you're you".

Respect is not a "right", it is EARNED.

Here's your ribbon, just for showing up to the game. See how pretty it is? The gold lettering says: P-A-R-T-C-I-P-A-T-I-O-N.

So special. :rolleyes:

you have a right to your opinion, and so do I. Thank you for sharing your pearls of wisdom with us.

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CmdrStidd

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peter "Paul" Williams

In my opinion, there are two types of Internet Marketing Newbies: IGNORANT NEWBIES and INDOLENT NEWBIES.

As I agree with the Indolent, Lazy and Insolent remarks, I have an issue with the Ignorant tag.

This tag is just plain rude as it implies stupidity or lack of education to otherwise smart and good people.

I much prefer the term "untrained" as this is a far better classification.

As a second degree black belt in Goju Karate, I and my training partners were taught respect.

Although we can beat the living cra* out of a lower ranking belt, we don't. We train to their level while offering advice to them in order to become better martial artists.

We do need to teach a lesson to the Insolent, know it all types, and after knocking them down, we offer a hand to pick them back up. Thereby giving respect while teaching a very valuble lesson.

We get the respect of the entire training hall through our actions. That also goes in life. - We get what we give.

"Untrained" is by far a better term.

Many super great earners were once untrained. Those that only offer critisem need to remember their humble beginings.

Chances are that in the martial arts they are only a begining white belt themselves.

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

I'm with Fred on this one!

Peter, do you know how arrogant and judgemental you sound? You really do. "Do not judge lest ye be judged"...
See what happened because of your post? I've judged you to be unkind and arrogant.

To call newbies either ignorant or indolent -- either one is insulting, imho. They are people and they deserve your respect, newbie or not. A "newbie" can possibly teach you a thing or 2, perhaps not about marketing, but probably about something else that you have no knowledge of.

Putting labels on people is just as bad as racisim, do you not know that? That is what you have done, and in one stupid self-righteous post you've probably pissed off a lot of newcomers. If I was a "newbie" (which I'm not despite the fact I've only been a member here since the summer), I would think, who does this guy think he is?:rolleyes:

I suspect you posted this on purpose to stir stuff up because controversy is your schtick...according to the label beneath your name...well, remember, posts on this board get indexed by Google really fast, so the whole world will know soon enough what you're really like. Think about that!

I believe kindness and patience are necessary when teaching anything to anyone, and most people thrive when treated properly and with respect.

Let me start off by saying that I am a newbie and I am probably the newest newbie on this thread at this time. I carry a full college education in software development, so I am not stupid by no means. Now on to my comments.

I do not find anything offensive in the original post made on this forum. I am an ignorant newbie and if anyone has a problem calling me that then it is your tough luck, not mine. I will be more than happy to play the world's smallest violin at your cryathon tear fest. Just do not expect me to be there crying with you. I happen to agree with the lists as they have developed throughout this thread.

Ignorance is a state that can be changed provided that the one who is ignorant chooses to make the effort to change that state. Where I would have had an objection is if the term Stupid was used as Peter Williams tries to imply in his post. Stupidity is a state that cannot be changed no matter how much the individual may want it to happen. For example, I will forever be stupid when it comes to the operation of the Government when it comes to financial matters. I cannot see or understand how it is that the government can be a trillion dollars in the hole and yet if I am 10 cents short of covering a check, I get hit with an overdraft fee of $35.00 and I doubt anyone out there will ever be able to explain that to me where it makes logical sense. My account gets closed if I am in the red for more than 2 months in a row but yet the government can be in the red for decades and there is not a problem at all.

Now, the two of you have spoken about you taking issue with the wording of the post. You put him down for his use of the English language in its proper form and yet you do not acknowledge that he has the right to his opinion on this matter. Furthermore, I do not see any noobs out here saying that they disagree with the assessment so why are you taking offense at it. Could it be that you like seeing your name on the boards and you are posting just to be posting?

It has taken me a while to find this site and I am hoping that one of the veterans on this board will take me under their wing and show me the ropes so that I can progress from being an ignorant noob to being an inspired noob and maybe even one day I would like to see myself as an angel.

That is my 2 cents worth.
Stidd

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by CmdrStidd

I do not find anything offensive in the original post made on this forum. I am an ignorant newbie and if anyone has a problem calling me that then it is your tough luck, not mine.

DUDE!

THANKS for "Getting it!"

Peter

P.S. Yeah, what's up with that $35 fee for $0.10 overdrawn? What's worse is if 7 transactions come in right behind it! And you had made a deposit at 4:01 that day but it doesn't count till tomorrow 'cause the books are closed.

Sheesh!

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SelfMadeCelo 15 years ago

So are there any real mentors out there and how much should that cost?
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- JohnB23 15 years ago
  
  The 10,000 hours in Gladwells book is more of a marketing tagline, something to promote his book, than fact, IMO.
  
  Big difference between being the worlds best and merely making money.
  
  Newbies to IM or marketing in general...
  
  -Pie in the sky dreamer. Like the million people that show up for American Idol try outs.
  
  -Disconnected from the real world/and what sells in reality. Expecting to make money from something that they couldnt sell in person in the real world. Or they wouldn't want to sell to their family members or friends.
  
  -Unfocused. Biggest issue IMO. Maybe someone could make millions selling the book..."How to get focused in Internet Marketing "
  
  -Thinking the internet is magical or mystical.
  
  -Thinking they don't have to work because it's the internet Now we're getting warm.
  
  Lots of derivatives of it.
  
  Thanks
  
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- PeterDudek 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by SelfMadeCelo
  
  So are there any real mentors out there and how much should that cost?
  
  I'm not aware of any legitimate Mentors for hire out there or what they charge.
  
  I know a lot of "Mentors" end up being someone who is trying to get you into their MLM and they don't really give you any help to speak of.
  
  You might want to check out my thread on Masterminding: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...700-month.html
  
  There are some good ideas in there.
  
  Thanks
  
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Istvan Horvath 13 years ago

Originally Posted by Karen Blundell

A "newbie" can possibly teach you a thing or 2, perhaps not about marketing, but probably about something else that you have no knowledge of.

But this is a marketing forum... so we shouldn't really care what kind of knowledge a newbie (or a veteran) has outside of this realm. Because we come here to learn about marketing or - in the case of those that are successful and generous - to share the knowledge about marketing.

Calling a spade a spade is offending only for the PC-maniacs :rolleyes:
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panamajack

15 years ago

I agree with most of all of your comments . I think I fit with Video Epidemics profile . Today we are being bombarded in every direction .Multi-Tasking is difficult unless we focus on tasks given and complete them in a orderly fashion .

Cheers,
Gary

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RobRamos

15 years ago

Peter,

Through this forum I've been introduced to a bigger picture. "You incorporated." so to answer your question YES. But once I become acquainted with Network Marketing and Internet Marketing I'd like to start affiliate Marketing. To broaden my horizons. I want to brand myself and build "ME Incorporated." those are my longterm goals

Thanks
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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by RobRamos

Peter,

Through this forum I've been introduced to a bigger picture. "You incorporated." so to answer your question YES. But once I become acquainted with Network Marketing and Internet Marketing I'd like to start affiliate Marketing. To broaden my horizons. I want to brand myself and build "ME Incorporated." those are my longterm goals

Rob,

That is a great "Big Picture" vision. You have the right ideas. I'll go check my library for book ideas for you.

Meanwhile I have three things for you.

1. SQUEEZE PAGE - There is a guy who is in the Inner Circles of Internet Marketing. He's working very closely with Frank Kern on the current launch of Mass Control 2.0. He has done work for MTV, The Oxygen Network, World Poker Tour and Dr. Phil. His name is Matt Trainer and he is awesome. I made a page about him on my TrustedGurus.com site. He is the BEST at squeeze page design and theory. TrustedGurus.com Reviews Matt Trainer

2. INTERNET MARKETING and NETWORK MARKETING - I am actually doing something with both of those myself. Here's a back-door look at what I'm doing. Feel free to copy, mimic, plagiarize, etc. The MLM-IM System

3. CREATING A BRAND OF YOURSELF - This is a new subject for me but there's a guy that has some good stuff to say on the subject here: Joel Bauer - Infotainer - Speaker Trainer

Best wishes to you!

Peter

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by RobRamos

Peter,

Through this forum I've been introduced to a bigger picture. "You incorporated." so to answer your question YES. But once I become acquainted with Network Marketing and Internet Marketing I'd like to start affiliate Marketing. To broaden my horizons. I want to brand myself and build "ME Incorporated." those are my longterm goals

Rob,

A little background before I give you this book recommendation.

I am a customer of Frank Kern's original Mass Control last year. As part of that, we got to attend a live event in April.

At that event, Frank formed a "Platinum Mastermind Group" of 20 people which I applied for and was accepted. We each (there's 20 of us) pay $2,700 per month for the privilege.

One of the very first things Frank did was send us a book. If you haven't already read it, you should read it - ESPECIALLY if you are interested in creating yourself as a brand.

Here it is:

Amazon.com: The Go-Giver: A Little Story About a...
Best wishes to you!

Peter

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ParksPathToProfit

15 years ago

I would have to consider myself an Inspired Serious Student.
I, in no way, think that I know everything. You can always learn something new.
Great content Peter
PS If you dont want to be an ignorant newbie, (sounds awful), find a mentor!
Knowledge = Success

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IMChick

15 years ago

Additions to the list:

Innovative:

The Idea Person. Figures it all out by looking at the marketplace offerings first. Knows they have a huge monster hit on their hands, but, alas, lacks the technical skills and the ability to write and implement a solid business plan so their great world-changing idea just sits around.

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Thomas Wilkinson

15 years ago

Read through this thread, got up, walked out to the porch, stood

there thinking for a moment and realized I could see a bit of myself

in EACH category at various stages of my IM education. Maybe

everyone goes through a little bit of all of it. I never did make money

at this until I got to the "don't just sit there, DO something" stage.

Tom

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Hmmm....

Okay, let's look at the following list with no pre-conceived context.

Ignorant
Indolent
Insolent
Inspired
Insolvent
Innovative

If you saw that list, would you think "Oh, this must the different types of new people"?

I think it could just as easily describe the people on the WF who have been around for a long time. It could also describe anybody thinking they want to start a business, or those who have established busineeses (I know, I've had bosses that could fit any of those descriptions).

Just a thought.

All the best,
Michael

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Hmmm....

Okay, let's look at the following list with no pre-conceived context.

Ignorant
Indolent
Insolent
Inspired
Insolvent
Innovative

If you saw that list, would you think "Oh, this must the different types of new people"?

I think it could just as easily describe the people on the WF who have been around for a long time. It could also describe anybody thinking they want to start a business, or those who have established busineeses (I know, I've had bosses that could fit any of those descriptions).

Just a thought.

All the best,
Michael

Michael,

Your point is well-taken. You are obviously a benevolent deep-thinker. (It's nice to meet you by the way.)

As you point out, the list we're collectively compiling could be used to filter or sort many groups of people.

But getting back to the subject of Newbies, my goal was to generate discussion around the fact that as it relates to Internet Marketing, there are two ways to categorize someone as a "Newbie."

The first way is most obvious. They are new (based on time) to the business. They are by definition Ignorant simply because they haven't had time to educate themselves yet.

The other way is less obvious. People can be hanging around the Internet Marketing space for a long time yet still be considerded a "Newbie" because they haven't started making any money yet.

I remember being in a seminar and the Guru asked the audience to raise their hand if they were "Newbies." More than half the people raised their hands.

He then asked people to stand if they were making money online. There were quite a few but it was MUCH LESS than half the audience.

Then he asked people to STAY STANDING if they were doing Internet Marketing full-time. Less than half of that small group remained.

Next he asked people to REMAIN STANDING if they were making $5,000/month, $10,000/month, etc.

I think his point was to get the Newbies to identify other people in the room they could ask for personal attention because he was tired of being surrounded by Newbies hungry for one-on-one help.

My point in telling this story is that my conclusion from the exercise was there were a LOT of people who did not admit to being a "Newbie" yet they were not making money online.

This conclusion was supported by several small-group discussions at that same seminar and others.

There are a LOT of people out there who are buying IM courses and not using them.

So when I wrote my original post here, my goal was to try to get some of those people to crack open some of their courses and get to work.

I believe the Internet is a miracle of technology. Never before in the entire history of mankind has a tool existed that gives ANY ONE OF US the capability to communicate with millions of people.

The Internet is amazing. Internet Marketing is an opportunity for the Common Man far greater than any Gold Rush or Land Rush in history.

It gives me great pleasure to communicate with like-minded people such as yourself and others in this forum.

Best regards,

Peter

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IMChick

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Hmmm....

Okay, let's look at the following list with no pre-conceived context.

Ignorant
Indolent
Insolent
Inspired
Insolvent
Innovative

If you saw that list, would you think "Oh, this must the different types of new people"?

I think it could just as easily describe the people on the WF who have been around for a long time. It could also describe anybody thinking they want to start a business, or those who have established busineeses (I know, I've had bosses that could fit any of those descriptions).

Just a thought.

All the best,
Michael

Oh, yippie! You so just made my whole entire day by putting my recommendation on the list at #6!

Here's another one:

Impatient: Knows what they want and want it yesterday or at the very least now. Knows and understands why that's not a practical goal, so plans and takes progressive steps to reach the goals. Expects the same high level of commitment and work-related goals from others around them, (which makes them almost impossible with employee relations). "Now is good"

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jasdon

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Hmmm....

Okay, let's look at the following list with no pre-conceived context.

Ignorant
Indolent
Insolent
Inspired
Insolvent
Innovative

If you saw that list, would you think "Oh, this must the different types of new people"?

I think it could just as easily describe the people on the WF who have been around for a long time. It could also describe anybody thinking they want to start a business, or those who have established busineeses (I know, I've had bosses that could fit any of those descriptions).

Just a thought.

All the best,
Michael

How about;

Incontinent - those that cr*p themselves at the first sign of hard work

Just kidding!

I'm working on reducing my ignorance every day...

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RobRamos

15 years ago

Tom,
Good Post. It's important to take Action. I'll do well to remember it. Thanks

Thanks

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RobRamos

15 years ago

Peter,
thank you for everything, this helps immensely.

Thanks
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Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago

Peter, I was a perfect example of an ignorant newbie when I started. I didn't
know my butt from a hole in the wall.

Eventually, I learned. I didn't quit and I didn't turn into that other kind.

Thanks for a really well explained bit of info.
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cypherslock

15 years ago

Technically speaking, everyone here is a "n00b" You never truly stop learning and when you do it is time to hang it up. Its just like Ninjutsu. Once you get to shodan (1st degree black belt) you are in the "more advanced" training, just past the basics. It is as if you've started all over again. I know of people who are 8th dan (the art has 15), who consider themselves beginners and who have been training for 20+ years. If you look at each day with a child's eyes you will find that a) you will ALWAYS learn something new and b) you will be better able to copy with the world in general, for a child accepts things as they are, rather than griping about the way they feel they SHOULD BE.

So I believe there yet another type: the consistently persistent "n00b".

This has been your Meditation Minute.

Cheers!
Cypher

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ArthurRose

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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jbsmith

15 years ago

The biggest progression we aim for when helping someone that is truly "new" online is to guide them to a process that best fits their objectives, skills and strengths.

For example, some people are excellent writers and researchers - for them, we plug them into a process for uncovering demand and quickly developing info products for them to tackle profitable markets.

Others enjoy site building and marketing - for them, we plug them into various different monetization strategies selling other people's products, site marketing, etc...

Some are excellent relationship people - they can do well in forming various JV's, partnerships and take them to another level.

The point being...a newbie stops being a newbie when they can identify with a process and begin putting that process into action - very quickly learning "frist-hand" based on their experiences.

Now, in very short order, they become very advanced in this area because they move from sucking in 2cnd and 3rd hand information into finding their own knowledge - what works, what doesn't.

The most common stumbling block is identifying that process they will follow - without the process, they try a little of this, a little of that - but are not really sure where they are headed or how all of it should work together.

All of this to say that the relatively small sub-group of newbies who make it to the full-time, profit-producing business stage - they typically have identied a process that they have "bought into" for filling demand, monetizing that demand and getting traffic - and they have taken action.

This is not a "shotgun" type of activity, but rather a very focused, designed, measurable process where you can quickly know what is working and what is not.

People we can get on this path inevitably will succeed, those that don't - there's very little chance.

Cheers...

Jeff

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by jbsmith

The most common stumbling block is identifying that process they will follow - without the process, they try a little of this, a little of that - but are not really sure where they are headed or how all of it should work together.

All of this to say that the relatively small sub-group of newbies who make it to the full-time, profit-producing business stage - they typically have identied a process that they have "bought into" for filling demand, monetizing that demand and getting traffic - and they have taken action.

This is not a "shotgun" type of activity, but rather a very focused, designed, measurable process where you can quickly know what is working and what is not.

People we can get on this path inevitably will succeed, those that don't - there's very little chance.

Jeff,

That is an excellent point. I think there are a lot of people who come to Internet Marketing with nothing more in the way of a plan than a sort of MYSTICAL HOPE that the Internet will make them rich.

You summed up the key to success online (and in general) with just four words: FOCUSED, DESIGNED, MEASURABLE PROCESS.

Nice.

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Ray Erdmann 15 years ago

Originally Posted by ArthurRose

And then there are procrastinating newbies. People who want to get started,but never do because they keep getting distracted.

I wouldn't say all newbies who do nothing are those who 'procrastinate'...I for one, am someone who has A.D.D....therefore, my 'attention span' is my biggest obstacle, because I get so distracted trying to do the things I need to do in order to get my business up off the ground.

So, with that being said, what type of 'newbie', as defined by the above "I" starting words does that make me? ;-)

Ray
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Focused Action

15 years ago

How about a lot of newbies being plain old confused!

Gods know I have been and maybe still am!! Just read the sales letter of every Crusher, Loophole, Annihilator, Blueprint, Dominator, Conspiracy, etc. program, and one might believe it is really simple to be successful. Then, many Guru's recommend every other Guru's product, and a newbie might be sitting there with so many ideas they have no idea where to start.

If you read through this forum, it is not that easy for a Newbie to figure out what are the best resources to begin their "education". I agree there are tons of negative people, complainers, lazy people, etc. but...

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TLTheLiberator

15 years ago

The newbie I like above all other is one that understands the value of a good online business plan and doesn't mind taking strategist action.

Be a good newbie!

TL

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Pleased to meet you as well, Peter. By the way, thanks for the comlpliment.

If you are limiting the definition of "newbieness" to how much someone earns, then it's hard to disagree with any of the points you make.

My personal definition is more in line with things like attitude and mindset. Perhaps it's just semantics, but using those parameters newbies will earn more than those who think they have "arrived" and stop growing.

That's not to say your points are not valid, but rather that it depends on the connotation being used.

Interesting discussion, though.

All the best,
Michael

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KirstyJ

15 years ago

Speaking as a Newbie I'll admit to ignorance and indolence at times but I like to think that I'm not insolent!

"The point being...a newbie stops being a newbie when they can identify with a process and begin putting that process into action - very quickly learning "frist-hand" based on their experiences."

If that's true then I think I've finally surpassed the newbie stage - yaay! Thanks Jeff!

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jhall85

15 years ago

I think many successful people can become judgmental and arrogant because of the simple fact that they worked so hard to get where they are.

Its totally understandable that its annoying to see a newb stroll in with a piece of cake attitude. There are very few things worth having that dont require effort to possess.

You can't really blame some lazy people from flocking to this niche either. So many sales processes push the fact that there is EASY MONEY to be made or ANYONE CAN DO THIS.

Of course you will have the easy street people flocking to stuff like that.

Anyway, kindness and patience are way better approaches. It's hard to be a good judge of potential over the internet so being supportive and helpful makes much more sense than discouraging newbies or trying to "condescend" them in the right direction.

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James Schramko

15 years ago

It is interesting in the Gladwell book Outliers he mentions it takes 10,000 hours to be the worlds best.

Too many people are not putting in the time.

Taking action is not enough. Taking the RIGHT action is what makes it all work.

So education + time in is the key.

Peter Drucker (Another wise Peter D) pushed the 'Doing the right things' line.

In my experience people are not prepared to educate themselves. They do not take responsibilty for their success and they hand it over to others in the form of dreams because this is much easier than doing the work.

This stems from not having a strong enough DESIRE to get the the results. They just hope and wish.

You may think Frank Kern invented the DESIRE idea but it was mentioned in 1925 'The law of success' by Napoleon Hill.

"Desire is the starting point of all achievement, not a hope, not a wish, but a keen pulsating desire which transcends everything"

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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

Originally Posted by James Schramko

It is interesting in the Gladwell book Outliers he mentions it takes 10,000 hours to be the worlds best.

Too many people are not putting in the time.

Taking action is not enough. Taking the RIGHT action is what makes it all work.

So education + time in is the key.

Peter Drucker (Another wise Peter D) pushed the 'Doing the right things' line.

In my experience people are not prepared to educate themselves. They do not take responsibilty for their success and they hand it over to others in the form of dreams because this is much easier than doing the work.

This stems from not having a strong enough DESIRE to get the the results. They just hope and wish.

You may think Frank Kern invented the DESIRE idea but it was mentioned in 1925 'The law of success' by Napoleon Hill.

"Desire is the starting point of all achievement, not a hope, not a wish, but a keen pulsating desire which transcends everything"

Excellent book, James.

I just finished it.

Background and timing play a bigger part than many people care to admit, but that's still not an excuse. As he says (paraphrased), you don't have to be a genius, just smart enough.

All the best,
Michael

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James Schramko

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Excellent book, James.

I just finished it.

Background and timing play a bigger part than many people care to admit, but that's still not an excuse. As he says (paraphrased), you don't have to be a genius, just smart enough.

All the best,
Michael

Yes and a little time-in

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Tom Sindoni

15 years ago

HI everyone, I am new to the forum. And at the risk of getting off to a bad start I am going to be completely honest with everyone.

I have been indolent for a long time. There I said it!!! I'm an info junkie. I have bought so many courses and books over the past 10 years. I have read most of them. But have done very little.

I have always been waiting for the "right" time to get started. Or I need just one more ebook then I'll know what to do. It is crazy!!!

So my goal this year is to no longer be indolent. I am working on a plan of action to get my IM business started. Its hard to know where to start. But start I will.

Thank you to everyone on this forum. I have learned a lot already

Tom

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Sindoni

HI everyone, I am new to the forum. And at the risk of getting off to a bad start I am going to be completely honest with everyone.

I have been indolent for a long time. There I said it!!! I'm an info junkie. I have bought so many courses and books over the past 10 years. I have read most of them. But have done very little.

I have always been waiting for the "right" time to get started. Or I need just one more ebook then I'll know what to do. It is crazy!!!

So my goal this year is to no longer be indolent. I am working on a plan of action to get my IM business started. Its hard to know where to start. But start I will.

Thank you to everyone on this forum. I have learned a lot already

Tom

SEE?

(Good for you Tom! And thanks for posting this. You are a Newbie who "Gets it!")

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Elaina

15 years ago

Ha ha, glad everyone had a little forum to vent in, now everyone can be nice, patient and respectful in the rest of the threads, even to the newbies, despite their classifications.

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Christie Love

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PeterDudek

In my opinion, there are two types of Internet Marketing Newbies: IGNORANT NEWBIES and INDOLENT NEWBIES.

Definitions:
ig-no-rant -adjective
1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned

in-do-lent -adjective
1. having or showing a disposition to avoid exertion; slothful

To clarify...

1. IGNORANT NEWBIES: People who are being exposed to Internet Marketing for the first time and have no idea how to do basic things like: Buy a Domain Name, Build a Web Site, Drive Traffic or Write Sales Copy. There's nothing wrong with being ignorant. Everyone has to start from the beginning. The cure for ignorance is easy: True Education.

2. INDOLENT NEWBIES: People who think all they have to do is keep buying ebooks and courses and attending seminars thinking somehow, someday, they'll be rich like the Gurus. There is no excuse for being indolent. These are people who have been around the IM world for quite a while but have yet to make any significant money. Indolent Newbies are often guilty taking up valuable forum space and reading time by whining and complaining and should stop doing both.

More often than not, Ignorant Newbies eventually do one of two things:
1. Quit.
2. Turn into Indolent Newbies.

In VERY RARE instances, a Newbie turns into a Serious Student of Internet Marketing (making money along the way) who then becomes a Rich Internet Entrepreneur who then becomes a Wealthy Internet Business Owner.

A Serious Student of Internet Marketing is not afraid to:
• Spend money on their education.
• Spend money on trial and error while "learning the ropes."
• Spend time LEARNING and WORKING.

A Serious Student realizes that the Internet is indeed a way to Get Rich Quick but also realizes that "QUICK" doesn't mean "Overnight With Zero Effort."

"Quick" might mean months or even a few years. But Internet Marketing is definitely a way almost any determined and resourceful person can earn more money than with almost any "job" out there.

Just my opinion. I could be wrong. I frequently am.

By the way, like I said earlier, there is no shame in being Ignorant. We are ALL ignorant of SOMETHING. That is why even though I make a very comfortable living online, I will ALWAYS consider myself to be a Serious Student of Internet Marketing.

P.S. If you are reading this, I hope you either:
A. Know you have "The Right Stuff" because you are already on the VERY RARE path, OR YOU...
B. Just got motivated to stop being Ignorant or Indolent and get yourself ON that path.

Best wishes to your success. May you make many millions!

Sometimes we forget that we all were once newbies at some point in time.

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jaijav29

15 years ago

I also would like to add one type the pretentious type

this one is the one that pretends he knows it all and later in turn does not know anything.

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Cherie 13 years ago

Integrate! Newbies learning to integrate all the knowledge, mentoring, and experience from others.
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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Onslaught

I would be B

Halle-freaking-leuja!

Mission Accomplished!

After reading the last few posts in this thread where some people were OBVIOUSLY NOT READING my posts or the EXCELLENT POSTS OF OTHER PEOPLE before rushing to judgment about me or the purpose of the thread, I was starting to get worried.

But no more! You have restored my faith in humanity!

Good for you my friend! Keep me posted on how it goes. I hope you just started on your short journey to fabulous wealth.

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D.K. Magnus

15 years ago

So were is the "newbie" category for people who have been mislead by "Guru's" sales pages.

People don't just decide one day that the internet is an easy place to make money and they won't have to work to make this happen.

They read sales page after sales page, telling them that they can make an unlimited amount of money, doing very little work.

They buy some information, read it, find out that it involves not only work, but work that they have no understanding of and decide that they bought the wrong product.

Move on to the next one.

Because, after all, it says right on the internet that you can do it, with little or no money, very little work and the only knowledge needed is what they are buying form the "Gurus".

You can go to the WSO thread and see this taking place right now.

Or google internet marketing and see for yourself.

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D.K. Magnus

15 years ago

Just to clarify.

I'm now on my 6th attemp at setting up an IM business.

The first 3 took place before I found the WF.
Two were ouright scams that people were prosectuted for.
The last was a website I bought without knowing anything about SEO and failed due to my own lack of knowledge.

After I found the WF there was one that I never received all of the product and coaching I payed for.
Two were shutdown by the Ebay rule changes last spring.

I haven't given up, but between the outright scams (not receiving all that I payed for) and the Ebooks I bought that only gave me an outline of what to do and not the actual technical training to impliment their strategies, I've found myself getting discouraged at times.

I did start out believing the sales pages, which made it hard to get into the right mindset of consistency, hard work and continued education.

Thanks
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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by D.K. Magnus

Just to clarify.

I'm now on my 6th attemp at setting up an IM business.

The first 3 took place before I found the WF.
Two were ouright scams that people were prosectuted for.
The last was a website I bought without knowing anything about SEO and failed due to my own lack of knowledge.

After I found the WF there was one that I never received all of the product and coaching I payed for.
Two were shutdown by the Ebay rule changes last spring.

I haven't given up, but between the outright scams (not receiving all that I payed for) and the Ebooks I bought that only gave me an outline of what to do and not the actual technical training to impliment their strategies, I've found myself getting discouraged at times.

I did start out believing the sales pages, which made it hard to get into the right mindset of consistency, hard work and continued education.

This is going to sound harsh but: See? Look at what you've learned already!

It seems to me like you are in the midst of a classic case of learning the hard way.

So what do you know so far?

The purpose of the sales letters you've been reading is to get sales.
The purpose of the products you've purchased so far is...well, I doubt they had a purpose.
You've also learned that you have what it takes to succeed in Internet Marketing because you are still here, with the spirit of learning, even though you've been a victim of bad folks.

Here's what I recommend.

If you have some money for your education, you'll get some very excellent material from StomperNet, Frank Kern and Eben Pagan. John Reese is excellent too.

If you don't want to spend any money, study the marketing of those aforementioned marketers. De-construct it. Analyze it. You'll learn a lot from that exercise.

Also, there's a ton of free good stuff from the late Gary Halbert's website:
The Gary Halbert Letter

Best wishes to you!

Thanks
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D.K. Magnus

15 years ago

I do appreciate the constructive advice.

You are right. I have learned alot, the hard way.

I made my second post, because I knew you would respond to it.

But what about my first post?

You blame people for their attitudes, but do not address some of the causes.

When someone with IM experience complains that "newbies" are lazy, It sometimes comes down to "Physician heal thyself".

Stop advertising that its easy, this is the only info you will ever need and you can make unlimited income, while sitting at the computer in your pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails.

Then complain that 'newbies" want to sit in their pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails without doing any real work and expect to make themselves rich.

P.S. I now have a business plan, along with coaching provide by someone who has proven that their plan works. I have dedicated myself to this plan and set aside all other IM distractions until I have this fully implemented.

Originally Posted by PeterDudek

This is going to sound harsh but: See? Look at what you've learned already!

It seems to me like you are in the midst of a classic case of learning the hard way.

So what do you know so far?

The purpose of the sales letters you've been reading is to get sales.
The purpose of the products you've purchased so far is...well, I doubt they had a purpose.
You've also learned that you have what it takes to succeed in Internet Marketing because you are still here, with the spirit of learning, even though you've been a victim of bad folks.

Here's what I recommend.

If you have some money for your education, you'll get some very excellent material from StomperNet, Frank Kern and Eben Pagan. John Reese is excellent too.

If you don't want to spend any money, study the marketing of those aforementioned marketers. De-construct it. Analyze it. You'll learn a lot from that exercise.

Also, there's a ton of free good stuff from the late Gary Halbert's website:
The Gary Halbert Letter

Best wishes to you!

Thanks
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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by D.K. Magnus

I do appreciate the constructive advice.

You are right. I have learned alot, the hard way.

I made my second post, because I knew you would respond to it.

But what about my first post?

You blame people for their attitudes, but do not address some of the causes.

When someone with IM experience complains that "newbies" are lazy, It sometimes comes down to "Physician heal thyself".

Stop advertising that its easy, this is the only info you will ever need and you can make unlimited income, while sitting at the computer in your pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails.

Then complain that 'newbies" want to sit in their pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails without doing any real work and expect to make themselves rich.

P.S. I now have a business plan, along with coaching provide by someone who has proven that their plan works. I have dedicated myself to this plan and set aside all other IM distractions until I have this fully implemented.

D.K.
I was trying to use a little tact and be helpful by ignoring your first post and responding the best way I knew how to your second.

Now that you are pressing me to respond to your complaints here goes...

You say:
"You blame people for their attitudes, but do not address some of the causes. When someone with IM experience complains that "newbies" are lazy, It sometimes comes down to "Physician heal thyself"."

I say:
I did not call ALL newbies lazy.

I was trying to point out that there are 2 kinds of "Newbies." Those that are new chronologically (Ignorant because they haven't had time to learn yet.) I pointed out that "There's nothing wrong with being ignorant. Everyone has to start from the beginning. The cure for ignorance is easy: True Education."

Then I made the distinction that there are Indolent (lazy) Newbies who are still "Newbies" because they are not DOING anything. That is the attitude I don't like.

I have nothing against people who are still learning because as I said further down in the original post: "By the way, like I said earlier, there is no shame in being Ignorant. We are ALL ignorant of SOMETHING. That is why even though I make a very comfortable living online, I will ALWAYS consider myself to be a Serious Student of Internet Marketing."

NEXT POINT
You say:
"Stop advertising that its easy, this is the only info you will ever need and you can make unlimited income, while sitting at the computer in your pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails.

Then complain that 'newbies" want to sit in their pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails without doing any real work and expect to make themselves rich."

I say:
First of all, I'm guessing you are not pointing this at me personally since I am not a Guru.

Secondly, the idea that FAKE Gurus (or even real Gurus) will EVER stop selling the idea that making money online is easy...well...that will never happen.

Why?

Because "EASY" sells so well!

That's what people want!

I've seen actual A/B split testing stats from a Guru where an actual GOOD product was being offered for sale. The A/B test was between "This is easy!" vs. "This takes work but it will actually make you money."

The "This is easy!" headline won HANDS DOWN.

People want easy. Sales letters will always promise easy. We just have to learn to deal with that and overlook the "hype" ourselves and decypher the truth and talk to others in places like this forum.

FINAL POINT
You say:
"P.S. I now have a business plan, along with coaching provide by someone who has proven that their plan works. I have dedicated myself to this plan and set aside all other IM distractions until I have this fully implemented"

I say:
That is FANTASTIC! I am very happy for you and like I said earlier, I'm glad that you are here in this forum and you still have desire to learn and pursue this business even though you got burned several times.

You are to be commended. I salute you.

As always...

Best wishes to you!

Thanks
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D.K. Magnus

15 years ago

You are right, that wasn't directed at you.

If Gurus or whoever new people get their information from, are going to continue to advertise this business as easy, there will always be people who take them at their word.

In fact, it is my belief, that it draws even more people who lact ambition and are looking for the "easy" way.

This does fall into the category of being ignorant of the truth and some people will move beyond that, but in my case, it took quite a long time. I'm not sure many people will stick with it till the truth comes.

And I guess it does thin the herd somewhat.

Originally Posted by PeterDudek

NEXT POINT
You say:
"Stop advertising that its easy, this is the only info you will ever need and you can make unlimited income, while sitting at the computer in your pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails.

Then complain that 'newbies" want to sit in their pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails without doing any real work and expect to make themselves rich."

I say:
First of all, I'm guessing you are not pointing this at me personally since I am not a Guru.

Secondly, the idea that FAKE Gurus (or even real Gurus) will EVER stop selling the idea that making money online is easy...well...that will never happen.

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dwshoup

15 years ago

Originally Posted by D.K. Magnus

I do appreciate the constructive advice.

You are right. I have learned alot, the hard way.

I made my second post, because I knew you would respond to it.

But what about my first post?

You blame people for their attitudes, but do not address some of the causes.

When someone with IM experience complains that "newbies" are lazy, It sometimes comes down to "Physician heal thyself".

Stop advertising that its easy, this is the only info you will ever need and you can make unlimited income, while sitting at the computer in your pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails.

Then complain that 'newbies" want to sit in their pajamas, drinking coffee and answering emails without doing any real work and expect to make themselves rich.

P.S. I now have a business plan, along with coaching provide by someone who has proven that their plan works. I have dedicated myself to this plan and set aside all other IM distractions until I have this fully implemented.

That is great to hear and I agree I have so many unopened "newsletters" because the senders have proven to send nothing but ads. No content, just ads filled with promises. I am not new to marketing and understand the purpose of ads, however, if you aren't going to provide content call it what it is. "join my mailing list" not "join my newsletter"

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raynman

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PeterDudek

Halle-freaking-leuja!

Mission Accomplished!

After reading the last few posts in this thread where some people were OBVIOUSLY NOT READING my posts or the EXCELLENT POSTS OF OTHER PEOPLE before rushing to judgment about me or the purpose of the thread, I was starting to get worried.

But no more! You have restored my faith in humanity!

Good for you my friend! Keep me posted on how it goes. I hope you just started on your short journey to fabulous wealth.

I think your two choices were spot on. There were some really good things that people added but if you had to put it into two categories those would be appropriate and, as a newbie, no offense was taken.

I really liked the "inspired" choice that Michael Oksa gave. That one word is the make or breaking point for what turns newbs into success. I consider myself ignorant (though less now than i was last month) but i remain inspired! The ignorant tag I hope to shed at some point but the inspired label i hope stays on continually.

great post.

Thanks

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TheRealDomainer

15 years ago

Generally speaking,
There are positive and negative newbvies:

Those that are ready to learn and apply it with the I can do it attitude and those who will ague with their mentor...

Anyone ready to learn will have humility, assume that he/she does not know anything and so he will be able to even "steal" quick ideas from the guru

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Conrad Blomberg

15 years ago

Wow! I learned a lot from this post. Think I'll re-read it now.

Thanks
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Mary Laine 15 years ago

WOW! This is a real deja vu for me. When I was a child, I went to a mainly white, christian school. (I am not) One day the teacher put a list much like this on the black board and said that this is what I was. (I spent a lot of time standing inside the garbage can, facing the wall.) Not sure if it was because I had an accent and looked different or not, but still this brings back memories.

1. Ignorant
2. Indolent
3. Insolent
4. Inspired
5. Insolvent
6. Innovative

That being said, I am sure the list is totally true of all newbies. And immigrants. And Capricorns. And.... oh jeeze, I guess everybody but me. (except 4 and 6, I will take those )
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Peter "Paul" Williams

15 years ago

In my opinion, there are two types of Internet Marketing Newbies: IGNORANT NEWBIES and INDOLENT NEWBIES.

As I agree with the Indolent, Lazy and Insolent remarks, I have an issue with the Ignorant tag.

This tag is just plain rude as it implies stupidity or lack of education to otherwise smart and good people.

I much prefer the term "untrained" as this is a far better classification.

As a second degree black belt in Goju Karate, I and my training partners were taught respect.

Although we can beat the living cra* out of a lower ranking belt, we don't. We train to their level while offering advice to them in order to become better martial artists.

We do need to teach a lesson to the Insolent, know it all types, and after knocking them down, we offer a hand to pick them back up. Thereby giving respect while teaching a very valuble lesson.

We get the respect of the entire training hall through our actions. That also goes in life. - We get what we give.

"Untrained" is by far a better term.

Many super great earners were once untrained. Those that only offer critisem need to remember their humble beginings.

Chances are that in the martial arts they are only a begining white belt themselves.

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PeterDudek

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Peter "Paul" Williams

In my opinion, there are two types of Internet Marketing Newbies: IGNORANT NEWBIES and INDOLENT NEWBIES.

As I agree with the Indolent, Lazy and Insolent remarks, I have an issue with the Ignorant tag.

This tag is just plain rude as it implies stupidity or lack of education to otherwise smart and good people.

I much prefer the term "untrained" as this is a far better classification.

As a second degree black belt in Goju Karate, I and my training partners were taught respect.

Although we can beat the living cra* out of a lower ranking belt, we don't. We train to their level while offering advice to them in order to become better martial artists.

We do need to teach a lesson to the Insolent, know it all types, and after knocking them down, we offer a hand to pick them back up. Thereby giving respect while teaching a very valuble lesson.

We get the respect of the entire training hall through our actions. That also goes in life. - We get what we give.

"Untrained" is by far a better term.

Many super great earners were once untrained. Those that only offer critisem need to remember their humble beginings.

Chances are that in the martial arts they are only a begining white belt themselves.

Peter,

(You have a Great name by the way.) So the issue is: Why did I use the word "IGNORANT" in the title of my thread?

Let me answer by asking some other questions.

If my thread had been titled "2 Types of Newbies: UNTRAINED and..." do you think it would have gotten the attention it has with the title: "2 Types of Newbies: IGNORANT and..." ?
I doubt it.

And do you think some of the EXCELLENT contributions and thoughts posted here by members of this forum would have been written?

I doubt it.

And if they had been, do you think there would have been as many views (812 as I'm writing this) of this thread where people got to see those great ideas?

Probably not.

So I used the word "IGNORANT" fully aware that several things would happen:

I knew people would be more likely to open the thread and read it.
I knew people's emotions would be engaged and great discussion would ensue.
I knew I would get some people upset because they wouldn't read (or understand the intent of) my entire post.
I knew the people who got mad at me for use of the word "IGNORANT" would take me to task for it (pleasant surprise for me, in YOUR case, instead of the usual name calling and personal attacks, you responded in a very respectful and educated way -- awesome post by the way).

Bottom line is...

Words matter.

They matter a lot.

As Serious Students of Internet Marketing, words are our tools. We need to learn to use them with skill.

I'm still a student. I learn from masters both in and out of this forum.

I hope you understand my use of this word and understand that I meant NO DISRESPECT to anyone who is new to the business and has not had time to learn yet.

I apply the term "Ignorant" to myself on many occasions and in many subjects.

I'm Ignorant about a lot of SEO stuff. I'm Ignorant about a lot of conversion stuff. I'm Ignorant about doing JV deals.

And I'm a COMPLETE IGNORAMUS when it comes to understanding women! Just ask my wife and daughters! (But that's another subject.) ;-)

Point is, like I said in my original post, there's no shame in being ignorant. We all start there.

Thank you for your post. It gave me the chance to write this response. And doing so has taught me a few things.

Best wishes to you!

P.S. Now why do you suppose I left the word "INDOLENT" out of the title? And why did I use an ellipses? And do I have a secret Ulterior Motive? (Insert footage of Dr. Evil from the Austin Powers movies here.)

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dwshoup

15 years ago

Originally Posted by PeterDudek

Peter,

(You have a Great name by the way.) So the issue is: Why did I use the word "IGNORANT" in the title of my thread?

Let me answer by asking some other questions.

If my thread had been titled "2 Types of Newbies: UNTRAINED and..." do you think it would have gotten the attention it has with the title: "2 Types of Newbies: IGNORANT and..." ?
I doubt it.

And do you think some of the EXCELLENT contributions and thoughts posted here by members of this forum would have been written?

I doubt it.

And if they had been, do you think there would have been as many views (812 as I'm writing this) of this thread where people got to see those great ideas?

Probably not.

So I used the word "IGNORANT" fully aware that several things would happen:

I knew people would be more likely to open the thread and read it.
I knew people's emotions would be engaged and great discussion would ensue.
I knew I would get some people upset because they wouldn't read (or understand the intent of) my entire post.
I knew the people who got mad at me for use of the word "IGNORANT" would take me to task for it (pleasant surprise for me, in YOUR case, instead of the usual name calling and personal attacks, you responded in a very respectful and educated way -- awesome post by the way).

Bottom line is...

Words matter.

They matter a lot.

As Serious Students of Internet Marketing, words are our tools. We need to learn to use them with skill.

I'm still a student. I learn from masters both in and out of this forum.

I hope you understand my use of this word and understand that I meant NO DISRESPECT to anyone who is new to the business and has not had time to learn yet.

I apply the term "Ignorant" to myself on many occasions and in many subjects.

I'm Ignorant about a lot of SEO stuff. I'm Ignorant about a lot of conversion stuff. I'm Ignorant about doing JV deals.

And I'm a COMPLETE IGNORAMUS when it comes to understanding women! Just ask my wife and daughters! (But that's another subject.) ;-)

Point is, like I said in my original post, there's no shame in being ignorant. We all start there.

Thank you for your post. It gave me the chance to write this response. And doing so has taught me a few things.

Best wishes to you!

P.S. Now why do you suppose I left the word "INDOLENT" out of the title? And why did I use an ellipses? And do I have a secret Ulterior Motive? (Insert footage of Dr. Evil from the Austin Powers movies here.)

You have made a very good point and I apologize if I seemed harsh in my posts. Sometimes we just need to read a little bit more to "get" what is really being said. and to answer your first question, no I have not had any success with my first two sites. The first one was selling physical products and after spending a ton of money I didn't have I discovered I was competing with my supplier. The second one was set up by a corporation with a very good bait and hook to get you in deeper. When I got ready to post my resale rights products to it I discovered my external hard drive I had ALL of them ( thousands of dollars worth) had crashed and I lost everything. I am now working on my third with my own product and creating it myself as I had finally found someone willing to give free how to info instead of just selling what to with no real direction. It will come and I will succeed as long as I don't quit I won't fail.
I also want to say that I agree with all who made comments about learning. I have always said that a day you don't learn something is a day wasted.

Thanks

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Charan Saini

15 years ago

I agree, if you want to make money on Internet then you have to take it seriously, like everyting else in the world.

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davcheong

15 years ago

All I can say is this "Learning from mistake, and where mistake we learn more to advance ourself. Trial and run when we learn, and thats the begining of learning more."

My bad english.. not sure it is understandable.

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BSM

15 years ago

There's another in-word that comes to mind...IN-TIMIDATED! With all of the advice from forum members, it can be overwhelming sometimes to siphon off the best & most useful suggestions.

It takes a certain commitment & feeling of self-worth to hang in there & work hard to learn & implement the information offered. But, there are so many good role models in this forum who've been willing to share what they've learned & what they use in their businesses, there's reason to IN-VEST in making it work.

Barbara

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pyrmontvillage

15 years ago

Originally Posted by BSM

There's another in-word that comes to mind...IN-TIMIDATED! With all of the advice from forum members, it can be overwhelming sometimes to siphon off the best & most useful suggestions.

It takes a certain commitment & feeling of self-worth to hang in there & work hard to learn & implement the information offered. But, there are so many good role models in this forum who've been willing to share what they've learned & what they use in their businesses, there's reason to IN-VEST in making it work.

Barbara

This Resonates with Me, 2 years down the Track and I am Positively Rocking!!!

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evollusion

15 years ago

I consider myself an inquisitive newbie. I am working towards my goal of being a "successful" internet marketer. But when I hit a stumbling block or a point where I get confused, I look to the more experienced among us for advice.

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Diana Lane

15 years ago

Indecisive - the newcomer who starts off believing that bum marketing is the way forward, then packs it in after just three articles to try domain-flipping, only to abandon that before it has chance to take off because flogging e-books looks promising.

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ina696

13 years ago

I don't know that I agree wholly with the OP; there's a lot I can say but this is his opinion. Firstly, not all people are alike; therefore, his theory doesn't hold.

I'm not looking for a fight and (like the OP) I speak only for myself.

There are just so many shades of gray in between what one can choose to see as simply black-and-white. Yes, I'm a newbie (compared to many of you here) but I wouldn't consider myself ignorant nor insolent.

As someone else mentioned, we're fed a constant diet of the "next big thing" we need to succeed. As for newbies not believing they are ready; is that a bad thing? It just means they need more knowledge or to build up their skills before jumping in. That's all.

There's no shortage of unskilled, (truly) ignorant people who will quickly jump on any opportunity to make a dollar. I think the internet has had its share of those. They'll have you cringe at horrific website designs. They offer poor or ancient PLR products. Little to no customer service.

If newbies could turn a deaf ear to all the marketing mumbo-jumbo and just get down to business, maybe they can just DO THE DAMN THING.

To me, succeeding online is about providing value and being accountable. Some old-timers may have more experience but they can learn something from making like a newbie before they just throw up their next offer.

Ina

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Tyson Faulkner

13 years ago

I think you're spot on.

While I'm ashamed about it, I totally fit into the indolent category. I heard about the internet lifestyle long ago but I failed to actually do anything for a long enough period of time to see success.

Plus I think it's all too easy to fall into the trap of "make millions with no work" since that type of talk is so prevalent on the net.

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Davy44

13 years ago

Originally Posted by PeterDudek

In VERY RARE instances, a Newbie turns into a Serious Student of Internet Marketing (making money along the way) who then becomes a Rich Internet Entrepreneur who then becomes a Wealthy Internet Business Owner.

So, "Serious Students" are born, not made. If newbies rarely turns into "Serious Students" of IM and newbies are either ignorant or indolent, it is then fair to argue that "Serious Students" are born with an innate quality to become "wealthy Internet Business Owners," right?

I disagree though. Every expert and every successful person was once a newbie and ignorant. Every ignorant person who is teachable can become a wealthy Internet Business Owner." It's not rocket science.

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Thaddaeus T. Hogg

13 years ago

I might be stoopid but I shore ain't ignorant! Now I ain't much of a newbie but I shore do have a new word what applies to me... imbibing! That there is what I am gonna go do with my shine right now!

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Thaddaeus T. Hogg

13 years ago

By the bye, this here post was written back in 2009! Why some a them folks what was noobies back then is probably makin tons a dinero right now!

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sarahberra

13 years ago

How funny. This is so true. However, there are still lots of newbies who keep trying until they get it right.

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pappyy3 13 years ago

Did I miss something ???..... was out getting the popcorn

These posts are so hum drum ........ so called experienced IM'ers making judgement calls on newbies.

Now ... get back to work and make some money!!
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mikemcmillan

13 years ago

There is one other category, but I can't think of a good name for it.

It consists of noobs who email you a sob story about not making money online. They want suggestions and help getting started. While I consider myself an expert in a couple areas, there are lots of things related to IM that I'm nowhere close to that status. But I do make that clear to people I work with.

Anyway, so you take some time, maybe even an hour and put together some good suggestions for the person hoping that maybe it will strike a chord with them. And then--nothing! And I'm not in this business to try to get people I try to help to kiss my ass and thank me constantly, but the way I grew up I was taught to at least have minimal manners and recognize people who do you a good deed. Even just a one liner to express thanks.

That kind of rubs me wrong, but maybe I'm old school and saying a simple "thank you" is out of style nowadays.

And yet, I remember hearing something not long ago (I can't remember where) that went something like...

All men are guilty of every good deed they never did.

So I think about that. Once in a great while maybe someone will take your advice and make good with it. Not everyone, but hopefully someone will. So keep helping. Who knows who it will stick on and what they will do with it. --Mike

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Henry White

13 years ago

Originally Posted by mikemcmillan

There is one other category, but I can't think of a good name for it.

It consists of noobs who email you a sob story about not making money online. They want suggestions and help getting started. While I consider myself an expert in a couple areas, there are lots of things related to IM that I'm nowhere close to that status. But I do make that clear to people I work with.

Anyway, so you take some time, maybe even an hour and put together some good suggestions for the person hoping that maybe it will strike a chord with them. And then--nothing! And I'm not in this business to try to get people I try to help to kiss my ass and thank me constantly, but the way I grew up I was taught to at least have minimal manners and recognize people who do you a good deed. Even just a one liner to express thanks.

That kind of rubs me wrong, but maybe I'm old school and saying a simple "thank you" is out of style nowadays.

And yet, I remember hearing something not long ago (I can't remember where) that went something like...

All men are guilty of every good deed they never did.

So I think about that. Once in a great while maybe someone will take your advice and make good with it. Not everyone, but hopefully someone will. So keep helping. Who knows who it will stick on and what they will do with it. --Mike

Why are assuming responsibility for their problem? Just point them in the right direction, and give them a gentle shove if that's what it takes. In the end, their solutions have to be their own - not yours - or it won't mean anything to them or only be temporary.

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Mike Grant

13 years ago

Heh, agreed completely. I made a post like this a few months ago, but it didn't go so well

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TheSEOking

13 years ago

I disagree!

Everyone was a newbie at some point and i was neither of your 2 types buddy.

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TheSEOking

13 years ago

But i agree with the rest of the thread!

I guess thats why the sats always come out with the figure of around %95 of newbies never even make a single penny online.

For god sakes if you cant make anything, then go sell an old dvd on ebay at least its a start lol.

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ladywriter

13 years ago

I'm definitely an ignoramus, which is frustrating to me because I'm smart....or can follow directions at least. I'm also a perfectionist, which is likely my biggest problem.

IMO it's a head game. I think most newbies have good intentions but they have to get past their limiting beliefs, stress , external noise, etc.

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imfusa

13 years ago

HA HA

More often than not, Ignorant Newbies eventually do one of two things:
1. Quit.
2. Turn into Indolent Newbies.

So true.

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celente

13 years ago

Ignorant and non action takers.

That is what bothers me.

People who complain about products but never seem keep to try them after then have bought them.

I better not start my ranting, doc just said to take my medications

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2 Types of Newbies: IGNORANT and...

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