Can I Get this money back from a Warrior?

34 replies
Hi there

In August last year I was approached by a warrior who I had purchased services from before to create a video series just for me on a particular niche topic i was interested in.

I paid $2000 for this video series which has never been delivered.

I was approached by the warrior with many apologies etc but no product and no response to my emails.

I live in australia.

I know of course I can't get the money back via paypal but is there any recourse that I have at all? It is a lot of money.

Many thanks and have a great day.

Regards

Colleen
#back #money #warrior
  • Profile picture of the author Ross Cohen
    That's a really tough situation - I'm very sorry. You may try to plea one more time for some compensation back, but if they decide to be a bad individual and not follow through with emails and such, not sure if much can be done unfortunately.
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  • Profile picture of the author Warrior Dragon
    That is a tough situation. If you really really need it back then I recommend maybe asking for a check to be sent via. 2-3 day mail. If you don't get it continue talking about it
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Originally Posted by 60MinuteAffiliate View Post

    Hi there

    In August last year I was approached by a warrior who I had purchased services from before to create a video series just for me on a particular niche topic i was interested in.

    I paid $2000 for this video series which has never been delivered.

    I was approached by the warrior with many apologies etc but no product and no response to my emails.

    I live in australia.

    I know of course I can't get the money back via paypal but is there any recourse that I have at all? It is a lot of money.

    Many thanks and have a great day.

    Regards

    Colleen
    Hi Colleen

    What on Earth makes you think you cannot get your money back via Paypal?

    If this fellow has not delivered and you have proof, I would open a Paypal dispute and include copies of the emails you sent. Then escalate it to a claim.

    In the 'type of goods' field, choose 'service'. You will win the dispute if what you say is true (and I have no reason to think otherwise). It is true that you may not get your money back - that depends on the other person's standing with Paypal. But if he/she has funds, they will reimburse you.

    Will
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      Hi Colleen

      What on Earth makes you think you cannot get your money back via Paypal?

      If this fellow has not delivered and you have proof, I would open a Paypal dispute and include copies of the emails you sent. Then escalate it to a claim.

      In the 'type of goods' field, choose 'service'. You will win the dispute if what you say is true (and I have no reason to think otherwise). It is true that you may not get your money back - that depends on the other person's standing with Paypal. But if he/she has funds, they will reimburse you.

      Will

      She could but no necessarily. I lost over $200 to a guy who didn't deliver on a service. Paypal escalated my dispute to a claim and I lost because Paypal says its TOS do not back up non-tangible goods such as services.
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    • Profile picture of the author ronaldmd
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      Hi Colleen

      What on Earth makes you think you cannot get your money back via Paypal?

      If this fellow has not delivered and you have proof, I would open a Paypal dispute and include copies of the emails you sent. Then escalate it to a claim.

      In the 'type of goods' field, choose 'service'. You will win the dispute if what you say is true (and I have no reason to think otherwise). It is true that you may not get your money back - that depends on the other person's standing with Paypal. But if he/she has funds, they will reimburse you.

      Will
      The transaction was made in August last year and OP can no longer dispute the transaction.
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  • Profile picture of the author onegoodman
    $2000 is a huge amount of money.

    My advice is try to contact him back, I don't see any other way to get your money back.

    If you were confident enough from this warrior to give him $2000, that mean there is a trust relationship here. Maybe he really had some issues prevented him from delivering on time.

    Will Edwards, she is already late to request a dispute on PayPal (PayPal has period limitation of 30 days). Beside there is no guarantee of getting the money back because it is an online service
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if this all happened in Aug 2011 your $2000 is gone...
      Always use escrow service if possible or at very least pay some upfront and balance when work is received.

      Originally Posted by onegoodman View Post

      $2000 is a huge amount of money.
      My advice is try to contact him back, I don't see any other way to get your money back.
      Maybe he really had some issues prevented him from delivering on time.
      And maybe the Easter bunny really exists. It's been months since the transaction went down the money and the guy are long gone.

      Will Edwards, she is already late to request a dispute on PayPal (PayPal has period limitation of 30 days). Beside there is no guarantee of getting the money back because it is an online service
      Correct, i think it's actually 45days. But if it involves a non-tangible item like a service, digital download etc you will almost never get your money back from Paypal.
      Iv'e tried twice and was told by the rep that they don't cover services,digital downloads etc...
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      • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
        Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

        Iv'e tried twice and was told by the rep that they don't cover services,digital downloads etc...
        Just to let you know that I have won a dispute when it was for a service.

        Will
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          Since the dispute period for Paypal is long over, there's nothing you can do to get your money back from Paypal.

          For future transactions, either use an escrow service or a small deposit until the work is done. You could easily set it up as a project in Elance and let that person bid on it (and others), choose your provider and set your payment terms and use Elance's escrow. They will not get paid until the job is done and the money is returned to you if they don't do the job.

          Never just give a full payment to someone for work not done.
          I just did the Elance thing - and I think any jobs that are larger investments, this is a wise idea for.

          The funds go into escrow, and the person you hire knows the money is there waiting for them.

          It is free to post a job there as well.

          In August last year I was approached by a warrior who I had purchased services from before to create a video series just for me on a particular niche topic i was interested in.
          If this person has a services thread up, you might be able to leave some feedback there as to their deliverability - although this was a side deal so I'm not too sure.

          If nothing else, I would submit a ticket to the help desk just for the record, and forward any PM's you got as I'd hate to know this person was sending PM's to everyone else too and not delivering.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Faber
    Do you have a contract with this person? If so, does it stipulate exactly what should be delvered and when? A signed contract describing the exact scope of work and delivery date wil make it much easier to receive a refund for non performance.

    If you don't have one, that is an expensive lesson, but all is not lost yet. I would contact PP yesterday, and get the ball roling ASAP.
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  • Profile picture of the author 60MinuteAffiliate
    Thanks guys for the feedback, no there's not a written contract, only written emails to one another etc and yes definitely the paypal dispute limitation has expired. that's definitely a strong lesson. I can't tell you how many times I've paid people what they've asked in full in good faith etc and been burned.

    Here I am waiting for a ghostwriting job that I paid for about five months ago too.

    thanks for your very thoughtful responses

    regards

    colleen
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Originally Posted by 60MinuteAffiliate View Post

      Thanks guys for the feedback, no there's not a written contract, only written emails to one another etc and yes definitely the paypal dispute limitation has expired. that's definitely a strong lesson. I can't tell you how many times I've paid people what they've asked in full in good faith etc and been burned.

      Here I am waiting for a ghostwriting job that I paid for about five months ago too.

      thanks for your very thoughtful responses

      regards

      colleen
      Colleen, we've all been duped at one time or another
      Just remember even if the person joined the WF 10 years ago, has 10000 posts etc means nothing when it comes to trusting people you meet online.

      The very nature of the internet makes it very easy for people you think you know to disappear one day only to pop-up the next day as a totally different personality.

      I hope you won't make the same mistake again....
      > Theo
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  • Profile picture of the author nycbroker
    Sorry to hear. That's a real tough situation, contacting PayPal is a good idea but I'm not sure if they can reverse the transactions?

    Worth a shot.
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  • Profile picture of the author maxi
    If it's with a U.S. person, $2000 is a binding agreement and does not need to be in writing. In the U.S. you can contact the State Attorney General, Consumer Fraud Dept in the state, U.S. State Department, Better Business Bureau. If you need help, let me know. If he's in another country, there are probably other places to complain to there. You should also give the name of this person to embarrass and warn others.
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  • Profile picture of the author Anton Nadilo
    Name and shame him on the Warrior forum. Such behaviour is a disgarce and only serves to bring down the reputation of other warriors who operate with integrity and honesty in their business dealings with there customers. I often have found in these situations that either the person is a dishonest, lying scambag or they have financial problems and simply do not have the money to pay you. If it is the former then I agree with Will and suggest you lay a dispute then escalate to a claim is neccesary. I have heard of mnay Warrior havign success when they provide all the evidence in a clear and well documented forward IN CONJUNCTION with suggesting further legal action and contacting of the relevant state and country authorities as per Will's example in the US.
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    • Profile picture of the author J Bold
      Originally Posted by Anton Nadilo View Post

      Name and shame him on the Warrior forum. Such behaviour is a disgarce and only serves to bring down the reputation of other warriors who operate with integrity and honesty in their business dealings with there customers. I often have found in these situations that either the person is a dishonest, lying scambag or they have financial problems and simply do not have the money to pay you. If it is the former then I agree with Will and suggest you lay a dispute then escalate to a claim is neccesary. I have heard of mnay Warrior havign success when they provide all the evidence in a clear and well documented forward IN CONJUNCTION with suggesting further legal action and contacting of the relevant state and country authorities as per Will's example in the US.

      You can't name and shame on the forum. It's strictly against the rules here due to Warrior Forum not wanting to police this kind of thing. You could name and shame and completely make everything up.

      If the service provider has a thread for his/services on Warrior Forum, you can go there and report your experience, however.
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      • Profile picture of the author Anton Nadilo
        Originally Posted by redicelander View Post

        You can't name and shame on the forum. It's strictly against the rules here due to Warrior Forum not wanting to police this kind of thing. You could name and shame and completely make everything up.

        If the service provider has a thread for his/services on Warrior Forum, you can go there and report your experience, however.
        Thanks redicelander,

        After reading my post I realised I forgot to clarify that distinction and refer to the thread or WSO thread this seller had for this service.

        Thanks again

        Anton
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  • Profile picture of the author Anton Nadilo
    Colleen,

    Can I suggest you contact Will Edwards as has he has commented in a number of PayPal related posts that he has had a high success rate with all his claims and may be able to provide some valuable insights into the correct "blueprint" to follow? Also...if I can help you in any way please feel free to ask or PM me.

    Cheers

    Anton
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  • Profile picture of the author WillR
    1. Count yourself lucky you also live in Australia because... well, because it's Australia. How sweet is the weather today!?

    2. I don't like your chances. I too was someone who always put too much trust in people and quickly learnt you just can't do it on the Internet. The most someone should need to get started is a 50% deposit. If they are asking you for anything more then I would probably go elsewhere.

    I would also layout the timeframe with one another and if it is going to extend beyond the period in which you could dispute the transaction, then you need to break it up into smaller bits so this kind of thing does not happen and you don't get stung.
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  • Profile picture of the author 60MinuteAffiliate
    Thanks guys so much for taking the time to give your valued comment and feedback, I'm embarrassed to say it's actually a woman lying hiding in shame somewhere I assume.

    No I don't think i can name them as I was approached outside the warrior forum about the service and it is not one that they sell here, what I paid for, but they do promote a service to the warrior forum.

    Thanks for your kind words, it's a hard lesson learned and one I pray I will learn from.

    Yes totally awesome sydney day today, about time lol

    hugs

    colleen
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Colleen,

      Originally Posted by 60MinuteAffiliate View Post

      Thanks for your kind words, it's a hard lesson learned and one I pray I will learn from.
      It's probably no comfort, but the lesson I see is - pay in stages, upon part-delivery. That way, there's less to lose if it goes the way it has, plus once the supplier has started work on the project, they are more likely to have an interest in finishing what they have started.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        It's probably no comfort, but the lesson I see is - pay in stages, upon part-delivery. That way, there's less to lose if it goes the way it has, plus once the supplier has started work on the project, they are more likely to have an interest in finishing what they have started.
        Yep agree with the ExRat. If you don't use an escrow service for the full amount, on large transactions like that give no more than 10% up front. Then pay in least 3 or 4 stages as they progress with the project. For example:

        10% up front
        25% after first part is complete
        25% after half is complete
        25% after 3/4 is complete
        15% after completion

        Sorry you lost the 2K, people are scum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Yeah a service called escrow.com is a great way to ensure that both parties fulfill on their payment duties. Paypal won't put in too much action to help you out. Sometimes you run into people like this online. You should just learn from it, and the next time you hire someone to do a service for you, use a safer route to get the service done.
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  • Profile picture of the author options
    you may be able to contact a debt recovery firm and they will act on your part. they would take a fee from the money they recover.

    maybe take them to a small claims court?

    Try and get them blacklisted ?

    Or i will send the boys round...

    You may also be able to contact paypal and say the payment made was not from you? ie someone logged into your account and made the payment. fraud.

    I would be doing everything in my power to bring them down.
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  • Profile picture of the author PSM
    That sucks Colleen, I've had similar experiences but never with such a large amount. The only thing I can suggest is that if you paid by credit card through Paypal you might be able to do a chargeback?
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    • Profile picture of the author poweruphosting
      That sucks completely.

      Definitely one of the reasons people are affraid to make big moves online. $2k is a lot of money to lose but you know what it happens a lot more than you think.

      I've lost several hundred dollars to freelancers here and there who start jobs but never finish and then even if you have paid money upfront only, you lose the upfront money. Not fair, but sometimes you lose.

      Good luck to you and hopefully you will be able to recoup your money one way or another.

      -JB
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Since the dispute period for Paypal is long over, there's nothing you can do to get your money back from Paypal.

    For future transactions, either use an escrow service or a small deposit until the work is done. You could easily set it up as a project in Elance and let that person bid on it (and others), choose your provider and set your payment terms and use Elance's escrow. They will not get paid until the job is done and the money is returned to you if they don't do the job.

    Never just give a full payment to someone for work not done.
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    • Profile picture of the author AnniePot
      If you have the entire process well documented with a good paper trail, you should be able to offset it against your taxes and claim it as a business loss.

      In the US I could help you with this, but as you're in Australia, I can only suggest you explain it to whomever helps you prepare your tax returns.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adie
    I'm sorry to hear your story. I hope you get your money back. But just in case you can't and you run out of options, try this thing...

    I was in the same situation 3 years ago and had no other way to get my money back. Since I knew that persons real name and his address, I told him that if won't pay me back, I'll create a page with his name as scammer and will SEO it...

    After sending such email, he pleaded and asked me to wait for 1 month... and I got my money back...
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  • Profile picture of the author megawarrior
    Oh no, that's quite a bit of money, sorry to hear that. I would always try to pay that kind of sum via credit card since you could've initiated a chargeback through your card company (which allow a much longer time-frame to chargeback than PayPal does).
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  • Profile picture of the author revstan
    These are things that have to be dealt with before you do anything else. The only way to have a chance of being reimbursed, is contacting the seller personally and give reasons to get money back. But you did that already, so it will probably not work.

    Just try one more time, if he is really stubborn, ask a lawyer for consult.


    Simple Stan
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    Making the path to income in internet marketing less complicated and as easy as 1-2-3 !

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  • Profile picture of the author Fixers
    What a nightmare!! I would name and shame personally, hate scammers and this is clearly what this person is. I would start a thread titled do not trust xx warrior nd put down the story, this may get you banned but I would go all out assault on this guy and would make sure you cost him a lot more than $2000!!

    Sorry but this sort of thing really pisses me off and people like this deserve all they get!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    It's not all a lost cause.

    Why don't you take that person to small claims court? If you are not able to be present, it's always possible to find a representative to do so for you.

    I am not giving legal advice here but I would def look into this. It's worth a shot.
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