Frustrated & Looking For Some Help

22 replies
Hey Folks,

This is only my 2nd or 3rd post here, but I lurk a heckuva lot. Before I start, I just wanna send out a quick thanks for the forum for the knowledge I've been able to pick up this far.

(NOTE - this might be kinda long, but I want to give an accurate representation of myself and situation.)

I've been on the internet (had my own website) since roughly '03. I've gotten serious about it in the past couple years, spending about 8 months trying to make it on the site full-time, spending ~10 months in the Middle East doing govt. contract work, and another 9 months (since Apr. '08) doing this again full-time. I'm desperate and determined to make this work - I'm not going to work for somebody else ever again.

Because some of what I want to present might be "scattered", I'll just present it in bullet-point format:

**My niche/area is health & fitness/martial arts (specifically workout programs for fighters, athletes, law enforcement, 'regular joes', etc.). My knowledge of my niche/area is not a concern - I know everything I need to know. (I only mention that to say that I'm not trying to market in an area that I really know nothing about just b/c of it's profit potential - when it comes to training, I know my stuff.)

I currently have three info-products (ebooks) I sell on my site, with my newest being my main product I push. I've created all my own products. I also do some affiliate marketing with products that can be used in tandem with my ebooks (think timers, certain pieces of equipment, supplements, etc.). However, I don't affiliate sell just for the sake of affiliate selling - I only sell things I actually use/have bought/etc.

My site is also fairly content-rich, in that I don't just have a sales page. I have 90+ free articles/newsletters published on my site (all written by me).

**Though I make enough (combined with the wife's income) to do this full-time - and be a stay-at-home dad - I'm not making NEARLY enough. I say this because I see too many others in this niche that are making very good money. Currently, I'm not even making $100/day (if I could get to averaging that, I'd be in a much better position).

I also want my income to be solely from internet sales. Many others in my field do personal training, run their own gyms, give seminars, etc. I'm looking for my income to be of the passive variety. I'll go to more "active" forms of income down the road. This is b/c I want to stay focused on one thing until it gives me the success I'm looking for before moving on.

**Speaking of focus, I've tried to focus on one thing at a time to do it well (or at least what I think is 'well'). I tried to learn SEO, and ended up getting ranked top 3 in google for 2 of my main keywords (and several variations) and first page of google for another. I average 400-700 unique visitors per day (depending on the day of the week) - but take into account that I do have the 90+ free articles on my site. If I have a new article published at a site (I write for a few industry specific sites that drive targeted customers to my site - e.g. - I have a strength & conditioning column at a major MMA news site), it's not impossible for me to get 1500+ unique visitors/day.

I then tried to go the route of capturing email addys, so I put together a free 13-page report for signing up for my newsletter. I average 3-7 new signups/day. Though I do have opt-outs, I'd say I get 3 opt-ins for every 1 opt-out.

I then tried to get good at email marketing to my newsletter list. I send out 2-3 newsletters/week, each trying to be much like a personal email (as if I were emailing a buddy). I try to have good info, an experience, share an email or question I recently got, etc. Each email ends with the proverbial sales pitch (though I try not to play hard ball with it).

***************

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. I get plenty of traffic, all targeted and 'natural' (I don't even do PPC). I get opt-ins every day. I send out newsletters that I get good feedback on. I have plenty of good, quality, free content. I have good products for sale (I've gotten a TON of great testimonials from satisfied customers - both 'regular folk' and 'experts' within the industry), and reasonably priced.

Yet, I'm not even making $100/day consistently each month (and have honestly only done so once...which happened to be the month of my latest product release). And I know there are too many others out there that are making very good money (with, though I might be biased, much inferior products) with their online sales.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, and am looking for suggestions as to what to look at or consider. I don't know if it's the lousy economy, something I'm doing wrong, or what.

Any ideas, tips, or suggestions would be more welcome than you'd know.
#frustrated
  • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
    Hi Wiggy,
    Your post seems very well thought out and provides many details, plus I believe I found the site you are referring to when I looked at your profile. One thing that you might find more helpful is to post in our Copywriting forum asking for a critique of your sales page and of course providing the url within.

    Sounds like you are getting plenty of traffic, of which you say is targeted. Either your sales copy (and/or site layout) is to blame for lack of conversions, or the visitors to your site are not interested in the products you are providing (untargeted? But you seem confident otherwise), or your traffic IS targeted and interested in your content but does not spend money in this niche. Just some thoughts... have you studied your competitors' rankings and websites?

    One thing that stood out in my mind when I visited your site is that your sales page is within an entire content site, giving people many choices to click on other than your ORDER button. I think it's crucial and a somewhat "standard rule" that the less choice you give your visitors to take an action the better.

    I can envision your site another way, whereas your main product is at the root domain and all of your site content is at /blog for example.

    Anyhow I will post more if I think of something else but meanwhile, definitely get your sales page critiqued. Some of our most talented copywriters hang out in the Copywriting forum and offer awesome, lengthy and *detailed* responses to people who are genuine in receiving feedback. Just note that you need to be able to accept criticism openly, and take all feedback as an opportunity to improve and move ahead.

    Good luck and I hope you contribute to the forum more often, I enjoyed reading and responding to this post.

    Karen
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Quick addition - I was just wondering about all those articles you had on your site. Now I'm not interested personally in this niche and I didn't read any of the articles. But, are you perhaps giving away so much great information that people are satisfied with the free content and never compelled to purchase your products? I don't know if that's something to consider or not but food for thought.

      EDIT: Also do you have any analytics running on the site, like Google Analytics? If you do you can tell how long your visitors are staying on the site and where they are viewing. This could give you some insight as to what those 400+ daily visitors are doing!

      The other thing I noticed is minor but, heck minor things have known to drastically affect conversion rates! When I read your sales letter I could have sworn you signed it as "Wissy" as the font you are using makes the "g" look like "s" (to me). Okay so what right? Well honestly - when I read Wissy I immediately cringed and the word "Wussy" popped into my head. I know this makes me sound crazy and all but well just trying to help Seriously you don't know what goes on in the minds of everyone reading your copy and even how they make decisions based from silly stuff like that, or even subconsciously. I got to thinking.. what if I were part of your target market, and couldn't rid myself of a negative impression that probably got there subconsciously but there nonetheless.

      Oh well that's it for now, promise! And the name thing, really I bet it's minor and a non-issue, but I still thought I'd mention it. You never know unless you test. And testing, that's something I gotta get my butt moving on for my own stuff!

      Karen
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  • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
    Karen,

    Thanks a ton for the feedback - this is the kind of thing I need to know. When it comes to IM, I'm in the sort of situation that I know enough to know what I need to do, and I know enough to screw it up really good, but not necessarily enough to know that I've screwed it up...or how to fix it. LOL. ;-)

    I've thought about having too much free info, but I never wanted to be one of those that was only around to make a buck. As cliche as it might sound, I ultimately really enjoy helping people. I just want to make a good living doing it, if I can. ;-) And the more people I can help, the better. (Really, part of that is my problem - to make $100, I'd rather sell to 20 people @ $5/each, instead of 5 people at $20/each. I get to help more people that way - and it expands my base of satisfied customers for future products - but it's much tougher to sell to 20 people than it is 5...you know?) Besides, I thought the more quality content your site had, the better?

    Re having too many other places to click on...how do I balance it out then (directing as many people as possible to my main product with having a bunch of free quality content for my visitors) given that I want to only have one site (not a specific site that's a one page sales ad for one product, another site that's a one page sales ad for another product, another site for articles, etc.)?

    I'll head to the copywriting forum right now and post a thread. The more help I can get, the better. And trust me - it won't hurt my feelings. I already know what I'm doing isn't good enough - haha.

    Thanks again!
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
      Hi Wiggy,
      Yep I hope you generate some good feedback in the Copywriting forum!

      Regarding what you said about selling to 20 people at $5 .. I know what you mean about wanting to take care of your visitors and helping people, but in my opinion that is not thinking like a business. I think price evaluation has to do a lot more with what your market *expects* is the right price versus you wanting to go easy on them. Remember that a product priced too low can suffer just as bad conversions as a product priced too high. Lower isn't always the magic solution. But I don't claim to be an expert in this area - just giving you some ideas to think about.

      I wanted to bring up your competition again. Now I don't really know what keywords you are targeting etc so I can't take a gander at your competition. But how much have you looked into it? Do you have competitors who sell similar products? If so, how are their sites structured? Analyze their layouts and their sales copy etc.

      Also this is just purely my opinion but I would definitely segregate your article content from your sales page. If you give your visitors so many options to take you must be drastically lowering your chances of them clicking on the order button. Just off the top of my head I think I would rearrange the site so that ALL content is at www.yoursite.com/blog and then at www.yoursite.com is your sales page, and if you really want to tie the two together then have ONE link on your sales page to your blog (or content site etc). Of course you might actually have more than one link on your sales page, for things like TOS and Contact. But I would remove ALL those other links (even testimonials link, as your testimonials are within your sales copy already).

      But regardless of ANY feedback/opinions/ideas you receive you should test any and all changes. And I am totally preaching here because testing (split testing) is an area I really need to get moving on. So - take these ideas with a grain of salt - test changes you make and don't test a bunch of stuff at once is what I've learned, otherwise you'll find it difficult to analyze what changes caused any differences.

      Take care,
      Karen
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Keyes
        Wiggy just post in the Copywriting forum and ask members to view the site that is shown in your profile. It wasn't difficult to find, and shouldn't cause you any problems to seek out advice. After you post there, I'll go reply.
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        • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
          Originally Posted by Karen Newton View Post

          Wiggy just post in the Copywriting forum and ask members to view the site that is shown in your profile. It wasn't difficult to find, and shouldn't cause you any problems to seek out advice. After you post there, I'll go reply.
          Done - thread is up.
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      • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
        Originally Posted by Karen Newton View Post

        Regarding what you said about selling to 20 people at $5 .. I know what you mean about wanting to take care of your visitors and helping people, but in my opinion that is not thinking like a business. I think price evaluation has to do a lot more with what your market *expects* is the right price versus you wanting to go easy on them. Remember that a product priced too low can suffer just as bad conversions as a product priced too high. Lower isn't always the magic solution. But I don't claim to be an expert in this area - just giving you some ideas to think about.
        I've found that out the hard way. I've tested at several different price points (with more than one product) and found that my lowest price points were actually the ones I had the most trouble with. I was using the 20 x $5 as an example (I'm sure you knew that), but the idea is still the same. I can make roughly the same selling 3 x $27 as I could 2 x $39.95 - I'd rather do that former (though I think I might need to change my thinking).

        Originally Posted by Karen Newton View Post

        I wanted to bring up your competition again. Now I don't really know what keywords you are targeting etc so I can't take a gander at your competition. But how much have you looked into it? Do you have competitors who sell similar products? If so, how are their sites structured? Analyze their layouts and their sales copy etc.
        I've tried to do some research in this area. I've seen others selling similar products, but not quite in the same niche/vein. That has been part of what I've been trying to accomplish (directly targeting what others haven't), yet might also have been what's been holding me back (a smaller possible customer base). Though, with the traffic I get (even with all the articles), I still think I should be making more sales/money.

        Originally Posted by Karen Newton View Post

        Also this is just purely my opinion but I would definitely segregate your article content from your sales page. If you give your visitors so many options to take you must be drastically lowering your chances of them clicking on the order button. Just off the top of my head I think I would rearrange the site so that ALL content is at yoursite.com/blog and then at yoursite.com is your sales page, and if you really want to tie the two together then have ONE link on your sales page to your blog (or content site etc). Of course you might actually have more than one link on your sales page, for things like TOS and Contact. But I would remove ALL those other links (even testimonials link, as your testimonials are within your sales copy already).
        Ok - dumb question time - could you give me an example? Are you meaning to set up a blog that has links to everything else? I kinda think I know what you're getting at, but would like to see an example if you could... (sometimes I have to see this stuff 'up close' for it to make real sense to me).

        And thanks yet again!
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  • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
    ARGGHHH!! Just tried to post a thread, but can't post links yet - don't enough posts. LOL. Better start posting away.... ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author KevinDasilva
    Hey Wiggy,

    Here's a few ideas for ya...

    1. Make the "opt-in" page a "stand alone page". In other words, have NOTHING BUT THE OPT-IN BOX and...

    I would suggest a video of you teaching your "best technique". YES your ABSOLUTE BEST TECHNIQUE OF ALL TIME!

    Alot of people argue that "If I give my best then what will I give afterwards"...

    And my reply always is...

    1. When a singer releases a "Single" to the radio stations, is it there "OK" song or the one that will be the biggest hit?

    And when you buy a CD of 12 songs and the only song you like is that 1 single... Do you return it? Probably Not Right!

    2. When a movie is being promoted, do they show the "best, funniest, most action packed clips" or the "OK" ones?

    And when you watch the movie, do you ask for your money back because you had already seen the "Best Clips of the Movie"? Probably Not!

    I am sure you get my point. I believe that by giving away SO MUCH great content for Free you could POSSIBLY "devaluing" your products worth.

    Which is why I would try to go with a "Opt-in" page, that is a "Reverse Squeeze Page" where you have a video of you teaching your best technique that works EVERY TIME INSTANTLY. Then they have to "opt-in" for more great stuff.

    Then you put them on a "email sequence" where you give away more great techniques and every once in a while you throw in a link to a sales page.

    And when I say to give your "best technique" I don't mean the whole "step-by-step". Just give the "what" but make them have to buy to get the "how".

    Also, when you give away that "best technique" make sure to MAKE IT KNOWN that this is the...

    "Sickest Technique You Have Ever Discovered & Up Until Now Only People Who Have Paid You $1000's Have Seen This"...

    This way, even though you are giving it away for free, you are also "anchoring" in the prospects mind that your techniques are worth $1000's.

    I could go on and on but I think I would make this to general and not get my point across... Which is exactly what I think you are doing with your site... "Giving To Much At Once"

    You are giving them SO MUCH to consume that they leave "full" even though they didn't buy!

    You ALWAYS ALWAYS NEED TO LEAVE THEM WANTING MORE!

    So create a bunch of "Reverse Squeeze Pages" with videos of thing they can "implement instantly and get a result" (and is a technique that solves your markets "biggest pain/frustration") and I believe you will start seeing much more conversion and by only giving them enough to where they feel like they owe you (reciprocity) and wanting to know more... You will see some huge changes!


    And I would "test" different videos, headlines, reports or whatever...

    Dude I am creating a course on some of the stuff I have told you about here and believe me I have researched so much different aspects and this will most definitely work.. I THINK... LOL

    I hope this helps you some bro...

    Kevin D

    P.S. Very impressive "testimonials". I am a HUGE FAN of UFC/MMA and you definitely got my respect! You have everything in place you just need to test and tweak.
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    • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
      Originally Posted by KevinDasilva View Post

      Which is why I would try to go with a "Opt-in" page, that is a "Reverse Squeeze Page" where you have a video of you teaching your best technique that works EVERY TIME INSTANTLY. Then they have to "opt-in" for more great stuff.

      Then you put them on a "email sequence" where you give away more great techniques and every once in a while you throw in a link to a sales page.

      And when I say to give your "best technique" I don't mean the whole "step-by-step". Just give the "what" but make them have to buy to get the "how".

      Also, when you give away that "best technique" make sure to MAKE IT KNOWN that this is the...

      "Sickest Technique You Have Ever Discovered & Up Until Now Only People Who Have Paid You $1000's Have Seen This"...

      This way, even though you are giving it away for free, you are also "anchoring" in the prospects mind that your techniques are worth $1000's.

      I could go on and on but I think I would make this to general and not get my point across... Which is exactly what I think you are doing with your site... "Giving To Much At Once"
      Going back to your post...the headline is for the actual 'reverse squeeze page' vid, right (as an example, I know)?

      You mention sending them info automatically after they sign up....where do I send them after they fill out the opt-in form?

      Do they go to a sales page? A site with a sales page and articles? Take most of the articles down? A sales page that has a separate page with all the articles and such (like Karen recommended...and if so, how do I link the two)?

      My head is starting to hurt....
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      • Profile picture of the author KevinDasilva
        I know bro, I tell my girl all the time that doing IM (internet marketing) and planning all this stuff feels like "A NEVER ENDING BRAIN TEASER"...

        This is "exactly" what I am talkin about...

        Its funny that I just got an email from Frank Kern and he is doing exactly what I am telling you about...

        http://www.masscontrolsite.com/results.php


        ** This is not an affiliate link or anything (I wish I was an affiliate). Also, notice that on his "opt-in box" its says smething like "content only seen by "HIGH PAYING MEMBERS" ... Thats the anchoring I am talking about...

        But this is a "Master At Work"...


        After they opt-in, you want them to hit a "thank you" page. Simple page that says "Thank You for your opt-in. Please check your email and confirm your address so you can recieve your $2,000 Report" .... Thats IT!
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        • Profile picture of the author KevinDasilva
          And Wiggy you do NOT need to make that a "headline", but you could do what Kern did in his "opt-in box" or you could just "say it in the video".

          Basically, you just want to let people know that while this is free info, ITS WORTH A GAZILLION DOLLARS!

          And when you check out the "frank kern video" MAKE SURE YOU WATCH IT AND OPT-IN BECAUSE YOU WILL LEARN MORE ABOUT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT CUZ THATS WHAT HE IS ALSO TALKING ABOUT!

          He is giving away 2 hours of content from a $10k seminar.

          Basically, learn from "Whats he teaching" & EVEN MORE IMPORTANT "what hes doing"
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  • Profile picture of the author Tenzo
    Hi,

    Lots of good advice from Karen. I'd also like to suggest that you goodle Matt Furey, and take a look at his sites/join his newsletter. Matt is an incredibly successful email copywriter, and he operates in the fitness and martial arts niche. You may get some ideas from what he is doing.

    Regards,
    Kevin
    Signature

    Roses are planted where thorns grow,
    And on the barren heath
    Sing the honey bees.
    –”The Marriage of Heaven and Hell,” William Blake

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  • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
    Kevin,

    Thanks for all the great info. I'm definitely going to be reading your post over and over again.

    Another dumb question, though - I'm not sure I get what 'reverse squeeze page' is. (I'm not completely versed in IM terminology yet - LOL).

    If a squeeze page is just a short blurb (usually text) intended to get somebody to opt-in before they can continue, from what you've posted, I'm assuming a 'reverse squeeze page' is more or less the same thing, only you give away a scant little top-notch quality content and use *that* to get them to opt-in.

    Am I on the right track?

    Tenzo,

    Trust me - I follow Furey's stuff quite a bit. Honestly, the guy's training materials (both in fitness and in catch wrestling) are LOUSY at best (both in terms of the product quality and the information quality) when you have anything other than a basic, rudimentary understanding of either fitness or submission wrestling, but the guy is a marketer extraordinaire, and is making more bank than anybody else in the industry. That's what's so freakin' frustrating - not to sound egotistical, but my training info BLOWS Furey's out of the water, yet he's a multi-millionaire, and I'm online at 11:00 pm trying to figure out how to have a little more extra cash after paying bills each month. LOL.
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    • Profile picture of the author KevinDasilva
      Yes a "reverse squeeze page" is where you give them some content 1st, then say if you want more opt-in.

      Turn 1 of your articles into a video. Or bunch up a bunch of articles into a "Special Report". There are many things you can do and this is much easier then trying to learn copywriting and all that stuff... To start out!

      Just give great content, but do it in a sequence instead of "giving them the farm" all at once.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
    Thanks - would it be possible for you to throw an example out there so I could get an idea of what would be "enough" (yet not too much) info?
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  • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
    WHOA...THANKS for that!

    Looks like I've got A LOT of studying to do...am gonna go watch the vid...and probably re-watch it!

    Question though...what about the idea of having a bunch of good, free content on your site? Is that not "en vogue" / applicable anymore? I'm assuming the idea is to get people on your list so that they get the good info directly from you?

    And is a 'reverse squeeze page' still a good option given that my SEO is all natural (and I don't use PPC)? The Kern vid page you show doesn't really have "content" per se, so how would it rank high for SEO?

    EDIT

    The reason why I'm concerned about SEO is that I get a good deal of my traffic from google...
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    • Profile picture of the author KevinDasilva
      Well what you would want to do is create a free "wordpress blog".

      Then after they opt-in you can send them "teaser content" by email and then have a link to the rest of the content (which will be on your blog).

      The trick here is to give them "chunks" of info at a time. And in a sequence so that you control what they are feeling. Then when you have established yourself as an expert (which you will have no problem doing) YOU GOT EM!

      Then you should MAYBE think of doing a "Product Launch". By taking your product(s) off the market.

      And on your blog, have a "Ask Me" button, where your "followers" can ask you questions. Then when you see the questions that get asked the most... Create a product for each one!

      And another thing you can do is a "coaching program". And give a 30 day free trial with the purchase of any of your products. "Continuity" is where the $$$ is at bro.

      If you could get 100 people to pay you $30/month... There's you $100/day

      And for $30/month you could do a 1 hour telseminar a week and they would be loving you.

      Sorry bro I probably have your head spinning... lol

      I am creating a product that walks people "step-by-little-step" to do what I am telling you about and its all so fresh in my mind that I can sometimes throw to much out there.

      BUT just to review. Basically, what I am suggesting is to...

      1. Create a blog. Transfer the articles to your blog (into many blog posts)
      2. Create "reverse squeeze pages" and when they opt-in, send them an email with a link to your "Underground Blog"
      3. LISTEN LISTEN & Interact with the community you build! Get feedback from them by...

      - reading blog comments
      - ask me button
      - letting them email you (which makes it easy to create more content)
      - maybe do "consulting" (where you get paid and get some market research on "WHAT EXACTLY THEY ARE LOOKING FOR & HAVING PROBLEMS WITH)

      4. Keep giving them "cool things" (links to your free stuff and other free stuff in your market ie. Videos of UFC fights or something on YouTube)

      5. This will Build relationships with your community (which is what a blog will give you since they will be able to all follow you TOGETHER)

      6. Once you get their trust & build yourself as THE EXPERT... You shouls have NO PROBLEMS selling them as many products as you want...

      Which I woudl suggest... ebooks that comes with a 30 day trial to your "Underground Coaching Club" where they get "4" 1 hour phone calls a month with you (the expert that has been helping them for free that they feel they OWE SO MUCH TOO ALREADY!)
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  • Profile picture of the author Wiggy0618
    Thanks again Kevin - you've given me a TON of great info.

    Funny you should mention continuity income. That is what Ryan Lee has been preaching, and what I've been thinking about as of late. I actually have a continuity product I'm working on right now that I feel could mean big things. I plan charging a more than reasonable rate, and seriously overdelivering on it...

    What I want to do (from what I see) isn't being done by anybody else, and nobody will be offering as much for what I plan on charging...
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    • Profile picture of the author KevinDasilva
      Thats the trick... Over deliver by giving them more then they paid for... In other words, DO NOT tell them what about ALL they are going to get until AFTER they buy and when they start emailing you saying "OH MY GOD DUDE YOUR THE BEST"...

      Says thanks and hey would you mind saying that on video and sending it to me? And if you have to, do what Jeff Walker" (i think it was him) does and send them one of those "flip cameras", have them record the testimonials and bang you will have all the SOCIAL PROOF you need.

      Honestly dude I really think that "video" is the key for 2009 and if you turn some of your articles into videos and submit them to YouTube and all the other sites with your "Reverse Squeeze Domain" right on the video...

      You could start generating the BUZZ YOU DESERVE!

      Bro if you would like, I will PM you my email address and in a few weeks when my course is all done, I will give it to you for free (completely NO STRINGS) because I will need some testimonials anyway. And I think it will great for you since you obvioulsy have the skill you just need the right marketing.

      In the meantime, hit me up by PM anytime and I will be more than happy to work with you. Like I told you, interacting with people helps you by letting you see exactly what they are looking for, so by helping you, in reality, it will also help me...

      Either way, you have it and as soon as you setup your "marketing funnel" you will be climbing to the top... Easily!
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  • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
    Even if you don't do personal coaching, or seminars, you can still build a backend to your site to expand your income.

    Since you know the niche, make a list of things you use, and ask yourself a question:

    Would my customers need this stuff too?

    Now go do it.
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