Idea - Suggestion for the WSO Section | Warrior Forum - The #1 Digital Marketing Forum & Marketplace

14 years ago

p.s. If you are not a seller, then you can use the suggestion with the reviews you post in the WSO section for products you have bought.

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officer_iron

14 years ago

That's a good idea. Even though it might cost some sales in the beginning, it will save refunds in the end.

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Mark Bradley

14 years ago

I think that's a great idea John and as stated will cut back on people asking for refunds.

I guess the question is, will some sellers say anything just to get the sale,
and then it's back to square one again.

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John Delavera

14 years ago

Well... I prefer to think in a positive way instead of saying "so what will happen...?" or thinking that sellers will always cheat for making sales.

And guess what.... if we keep thinking on that way, then yes, sellers will always be telling lies for getting the sale, and "we" shall deserve the destiny we helped to be grown.

OR if you prefer: sellers will always saying lies bla bla... BUT NOT HERE. It's on our hands to maintain the value. Isn't it?

There are times when something is suggested completely by pure altruistic reasons, and not driven by anything else in the background.

Hi Paul!

John

Originally Posted by Mark Bradley

I think that's a great idea John and as stated will cut back on people asking for refunds.

I guess the question is, will some sellers say anything just to get the sale,
and then it's back to square one again.

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Mikal Laster

14 years ago

Thanks for the Advise!

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Ken Strong

14 years ago

Or sellers could just do a better job of conveying this stuff in their copy... which they should be doing anyway. But sure, the Classification thing would work as a shorthand, too.

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CDarklock

14 years ago

Newbie or pro at what?

I'm not using this system. Boiling down a product's value to what is basically a "S/M/L" designation is offensive.

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John Delavera 14 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Newbie or pro at what?

Boiling down a product's value to what is basically a "S/M/L" designation is offensive.

Say that to John Wiley & Sons, Inc, the company that created the "...... for dummies™" series.
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- CDarklock 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by John Delavera
  
  Say that to John Wiley & Sons, Inc, the company that created the "...... for dummies™" series.
  
  Sure! The "for dummies" series is offensive, and I will never write one.
  
  Be so kind as to relay that for me.
  
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  "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
  
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  John Delavera 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by CDarklock
  
  Sure! The "for dummies" series is offensive, and I will never write one.
  
  Be so kind as to relay that for me.
  
  OK then.
  
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kindsvater

14 years ago

I'm not sure how one defines a 'newbie' or 'pro' - and it could set up sellers for being accused of making misrepresentations if someone disagrees with the designation.

There are newbies. And there are people who can't find a file on their computer and think 'newbie' material is 'pro' material.

I AGREE the idea is a good one. But the seller should probably spell it out more as part of their ad copy instead of using a simple box.

Originally Posted by John Delavera

I based my order to a "review" posted by a face I know (not a newbie) and thus assumed that the WSO had something new to offer.

This is not the seller's fault.

Something "new" is not the same as being a "pro." Just because you didn't find anything 'new' in a product does not mean it is not a 'pro' level product.

Unless you assume a "pro" can never learn anything "new" - which would mean a "pro" would never buy anything.

.

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LegitIncomes

14 years ago

Originally Posted by kindsvater

I'm not sure how one defines a 'newbie' or 'pro' - and it could set up sellers for being accused of making misrepresentations if someone disagrees with the designation.
.

I agree...how do you define "newbie" or "pro"?

One may consider themselves a "newbie", and actually be much more advanced in their knowledge that most. Others may consider themselves to be a "pro", but have limited knowledge.

There are newbies. And there are people who can't find a file on their computer and think 'newbie' material is 'pro' material.

There sure are.

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kindsvater 14 years ago

Originally Posted by LegitIncomes

There sure are.

If you "assume" anything there is a price to be paid.

Sales Page: Here is a script for your website that will [insert anything]

Buyers:

PayPal dispute: I don't have a website so I need a refund
How does this work on my computer?
What is FTP?
I need help installing this on my Warrior Forum blog

.
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- John Delavera 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by kindsvater
  
  If you "assume" anything there is a price to be paid.
  
  I know that - my legal background helps.
  
  I mentioned ONE example of ONE WSO when I assumed things, which I do not do usually (you'd know that if you knew me better.)
  
  You cannot generalize through by basing an argument to one example.
  
  And my suggestion is NOT based on THAT ONE WSO. It has been something that grew the last 2 YEARS inside me and today was the time to "print" it here.
  
  Simple as that.
  
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tunity

14 years ago

Would buying a product just because it has a review of a popular face be a good reason to buy?

As much as some sales letters are misleading, I do not think that is the single major reason to buy a product.

Only buy it if you think it would improve your business. If you are not sure, ask the seller questions and if you are convinced, make payment.

If the product does not meet up with the answers the seller gave to your questions, I see no reason why you can't request a refund.

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John Delavera

14 years ago

Not sure if you're referring to me or if your comment was just a monologue.

If the latter happened then you are right of course.

Originally Posted by tunity

Would buying a product just because it has a review of a popular face be a good reason to buy?

As much as some sales letters are misleading, I do not think that is the single major reason to buy a product.

Only buy it if you think it would improve your business. If you are not sure, ask the seller questions and if you are convinced, make payment.

If the product does not meet up with the answers the seller gave to your questions, I see no reason why you can't request a refund.

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WillR

14 years ago

I don't like this idea.

1. WSO sellers are not going to use it because it will instantly limit the market for their market. Those that do use it, a lot of them would lie to try and increase the market for their product.

2. Who is to say your definition of newbie or advanced is the same as mine or anyone else's?

3. Buyers need to start taking a bit of responsibility for their own purchasers. When you go into a bookstore the books are not listed for beginner readers or advanced readers. There comes a time when you have to be able to do your own research and make your own buying decisions. WSO sellers can't be expected to spell every little detail out.

Originally Posted by John Delavera

I based my order to a "review" posted by a face I know (not a newbie) and thus assumed that the WSO had something new to offer.

That was where things went wrong for you.

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John Delavera

14 years ago

That's your opinion of course.

But do you really think that it's easier for the buyers in the WSO section to "be able to do (their) own research and make (their) own buying decisions?"

Are you kidding me???

Do you know how many WSOs would not sell 1 copy if THAT was possible???

And IF that was or is possible... then do you think I am such a pumpkin head not "...able to do (my) own research and make (my) own buying decisions?"

And if some WSOs tricked ME do you really think that it's NOT of the benefit of the buyers to follow such a TINY ethical manner by just classifying the product according to the seller's experience at least??

Because if a seller says his/her WSO is for PROs and it's not, s/he may get some sales in first time... maybe in second WSO too... do you really think THAT seller will have a future here?

We disagree of course.

John

Originally Posted by WillR

I don't like this idea.

1. WSO sellers are not going to use it because it will instantly limit the market for their market.

2. Who is to say your definition of newbie or advanced is the same as mine or anyone else's?

3. Buyers need to start taking a bit of responsibility for their purchasers. When you go into a bookstore the books are listed for beginner readers or advanced readers. There comes a time when you have to be able to do your own research and make your own buying decisions. WSO sellers can't be expected to spell every little thing out.

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yesacpow

14 years ago

This could be a good idea if there was a general definition for "Newbie".

But since the product owner will classify his/her wso based off his/her own opinion, its still not going to benefit the general population of prospective buyers.

What if the seller says its newbie friendly in his/her opinion (thus he cannot be wrong) but when a newbie buys the product he/she sees differently?

See where am going?

I understand your intent but unlike a yes/no for can be sold etc, this wont work so well in this situation in my opinion.

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John Delavera

14 years ago

Originally Posted by yesacpow

This could be a good idea if there was a general definition for "Newbie".

But since the product owner will classify his/her wso based off his/her own opinion, its still not going to benefit the general population of prospective buyers.

What if the seller says its newbie friendly in his/her opinion (thus he cannot be wrong) but when a newbie buys the product he/she sees differently?

See where am going?

I understand your intent but unlike a yes/no for can be sold etc, this wont work so well in this situation in my opinion.

I understand what you're thinking.

But if someone says it's (say) for PROs and it is NOT, then s/he AUTOMATICALLY CLASSIFIES him/herself too and THAT HELPS indeed. In fact, that's what we need to know so to keep an eye for the next WSOs of him/her.

John

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WillR

14 years ago

Originally Posted by John Delavera

But do you really think that it's easier for the buyers in the WSO section to "be able to do (their) own research and make (their) own buying decisions?"

Are you kidding me???

Easier than what? What I am saying is the WSO section is no different to buying digital products anywhere else online. If I land on a sales page selling a digital product it doesn't have a little classification down the bottom telling me if it is for advanced or beginner users... so why do we need it here? Why is the WSO forum any different? Why do we all need hand-holding? It IS just a marketplace at the end of the day.

You have the exact same amount of information on a WSO thread to help make your decision as you would in any other online marketplace. If there is not enough information for you to make an educated decision then don't buy. As you also wouldn't if there was not enough information given to you on a Clickbank sales page or an eBay listing.

That is my point. If you introduce something like this then where does it stop? Do we then need to classify how many minutes per day need to be spent to earn the money? What IQ the person needs to be able to understand our concepts? The font size of our ebook incase some people have trouble reading fonts a certain size? Yes they sound a little ridiculous but so does this to me.

Originally Posted by John Delavera

And IF that was or is possible... then do you think I am such a pumpkin head not "...able to do (my) own research and make (my) own buying decisions?"

I'm a bit confused John. You just admitted...

"I based my order to a "review" posted by a face I know (not a newbie) and thus assumed that the WSO had something new to offer. "

By your own admission, your buying decision was based solely off of the review of another Warrior. Is that your 'research'? If you are going to buy based on what someone else said then it doesn't really matter what's written in the sales copy, does it? Yes, we will have to disagree on that one.

Originally Posted by John Delavera

And if some WSOs tricked ME do you really think that it's NOT of the benefit of the buyers to follow such a TINY ethical manner by just classifying the product according to the seller's experience at least??

Because if a seller says his/her WSO is for PROs and it's not, s/he may get some sales in first time... maybe in second WSO too... do you really think THAT seller will have a future here?

But this kind of thing already gets pretty well sorted out in the WSO forum. Good offers remain and crap offers (on the most part) do not. How many crap offers do you still see selling after a week or two of launch? This is what reviews and refunds already achieve.

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John Delavera 14 years ago

Originally Posted by WillR

How many crap offers do you still see selling after a week or two of launch? This is what reviews and refunds already achieve.

When 2 people strongly disagree, it's futile to try persuading each other with arguments. I'll answer your points but let's accept the fact we're not going to reach each other anywhere - no bad hearts of course.

> Easier than what? What I am saying is the WSO section is no different to buying digital products anywhere else online.

Wrong 100%. A sales page does not have a list of comments - and I am not referring to a blog post or page as a sales page.

"Easier than what?"

Easier than just reading the Classification.

> If I land on a sales page selling a digital product it doesn't have a little classification down the bottom telling me if it is for advanced or beginner users... so why do we need it here? Why is the WSO forum any different? Why do we all need hand-holding? It IS just a marketplace at the end of the day.

I cannot really understand your passion here... Perhaps there are 2 schools of logic here. One school supports hand-holding. The other school says just learn from your mistakes. Both are decent approaches - and by far different ones.

> That is my point. If you introduce something like this then where does it stop? Do we then need to classify how many minutes per day need to be spent to earn the money? What IQ the person needs to be able to understand our concepts? The font size of our ebook incase some people have trouble reading fonts a certain size? Yes they sound a little ridiculous but so does this to me.

Ridiculous?

Apart from the exaggerated points and the overall diminishing importance given, what you described is not little or big ridiculous at all. That can open a big chapter though, so let's leave it as is.

> I'm a bit confused John. You just admitted...
>
> "I based my order to a "review" posted by a face I know (not a newbie)
> and thus assumed that the WSO had something new to offer. "

As I mentioned above my suggestion here is NOT the outcome of ONE TIME OBSERVATION but instead the outcome of a research that lasted over TWO YEARS. I can render more arguments of course, but this is not the place to do so.

> By your own admission, your buying decision was based solely off of the review of another Warrior. Is that your 'research'?

Now you are getting personal.

Do you really think *I* approach things, situations and people so superficially? Welcome to the Turbo World my friend.

> If you are going to buy based on what someone else said then it doesn't really matter what's written in the sales copy, does it? Yes, we will have to disagree on that one.

Yes of course, but it's not good to generate additional arguments by an initially faulty one.

> How many crap offers do you still see selling after a week or two of launch? This is what reviews and refunds already achieve.

LOL... we all know how *some* reviews work and when I say "we" I want to include you in it. You do know... don't you? There is the evil and the good approach when giving a review, depending on what you want your review to serve; aka. a good or evil purpose. Now... if you really believe that ALL reviews are sincere... nah... I do not think you do. World should not be miserable but there are times it is. Let's not analyze this further.

Again, I think it's futile to exchange answers here. We are 2 completely different persons, with completely different cosmo-theory. You're not going to persuade me and I cannot persuade you.

After all... it's not a big deal you know...
I do not impose rules here neither am I the loved member of mods (just describing reality mods, don't take it personally.)

I shall apply my suggestion to MY WSOs and to my reviews too.

You & all will continue having your opinion and one day (maybe) (time and) practice will show the results.

No big deal at all indeed.

BUT do not take my words light-heartily.
I tend to be complicate; some times not understandable at all - at the first (some times second and third...) glance.
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- WillR 14 years ago
  
  John,
  
  All valid points and I am happy to agree to disagree.
  
  Great minds think alike and even greater minds think outside the box
  
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  John Delavera 14 years ago
  
  QUOTE=WillR
  
  > All valid points and I am happy to agree to disagree.
  > Great minds think alike and even greater minds think outside the box
  
  Ditto.
  
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  ShayB 14 years ago
  
  For my products, I say whether or not the product is "newbie-friendly," but I don't always phrase it that way.
  
  I look at it like this - they have prerequisites for college courses. They are clearly listed before you can enroll in the class. In fact, if you don't have the prerequisites taken (and passed) already, you can't even register for the new course.
  
  If there is a certain level of technical skill needed for my products, I spell that out. (Not that it's usually necessary. My products are geared for newbies to intermediates.)
  
  I also mention that you need to w-o-r-k, too, which you wouldn't THINK would be necessary to say, but it apparently is. :rolleyes:
  
  I'd imagine both notations cost me sales, but the sales I DO make are highly qualified as far as skill levels and expectations.
  
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  John Delavera 14 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by ShayRockhold
  
  ... but the sales I DO make are highly qualified as far as skill levels and expectations.
  
  Yep - and that's how your people will stay there for you in the long run.
  
  John
  
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UMS

14 years ago

Rather than a classification rating, I'd personally prefer to add something like:

This product/course is ideal for helping people who have struggled with......

It contains step by step instructions and video tutorials to guide you through the whole process of.....

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John Delavera

14 years ago

Originally Posted by UMS

Rather than a classification rating, I'd personally prefer to add something like:

This product/course is ideal for helping people who have struggled with......

It contains step by step instructions and video tutorials to guide you through the whole process of.....

Sure, good suggestion.

I suggested the Classification note in the end of the post because it is short and up to the point.

But again, that's my 2c - nothing else.

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