Paypal Sucks The Latest Bombshell

67 replies
Hi You probably do not know Vinny Pinto Unless you are into alternative health and energy etc. But he is a big name in that those fields. He runs many yahoo groups and is a respected consultant and authority in various fields. Check out this email I just came across.

Hi folks:

A heads-up re online payment methods for consulting, prototype research products, and website support donations:

For years, I have used Paypal as one of several means via which I have received donations for my informational websites, and also received payment for consulting services and for various prototype research products (sold only to researchers, experimenters and mystics), and also for my spiritual healing work and related services.

I recently learned that Paypal has, for the past 6 months or longer, been engaged in a massive effort to "refine" and improve its brand name, and that it has started to systematically dissociate itself as a payment vendor for any and all websites, persons or vendors offering any services or products in the following realms: alternative health, wholistic health (their term, not mine), alternative health nutritional products, spiritual products (including healing services), energy-related services such as energy healing, and energy-type or spiritual-type water treatment products/devices.

It seems that in the process of doing this, they have been permanently ending their business relationship with a very large number of online vendors and service providers, wherein none of these sites and providers may use Paypal any longer for any transactions.

I learned yesterday morning that Paypal had (rather unexpectedly) decided to turn its sights on me, and I was notified (as have been many other users of Paypal in recent months) that they have closed/limited my Paypal account, and that I can no longer receive funds via this account.

This action hardly constitutes a major bump in the road for me, since I already have numerous other methods of receiving funds from clients, contributors and customers, and will be adding a few more in upcoming weeks, but it was nonetheless a bit of a surprise to me.

My webmaster is in the process of removing all Paypal payment buttons/links from all of my websites, and is also in the process of creating just a few centralized payment/donation pages that will serve all of my websites, and these centralized payment/donation pages will list a number of methods for payment, including online payment services that accept credit card, debit card and electronic checks. In the short term, I apologize for any minor inconveniences that this temporary shift may cause!

with care,
--Vinny
#bombshell #latest #paypal #sucks
  • Profile picture of the author chris1093
    There really needs to be a new more ethical company to rise up and keep Paypal from having the market cornered. It seems everyday Im reading a new Paypal horror story.
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    • Profile picture of the author virtualprincipal
      Originally Posted by chris1093 View Post

      There really needs to be a new more ethical company to rise up and keep Paypal from having the market cornered. It seems everyday Im reading a new Paypal horror story.

      I was recently turned down by PayPal for Virtual Terminal as a means of selling SEO services over the phone. The reason? So many complaints and chargebacks from SEO customers who had been ripped off... The problem really isn't with PayPal, the problem is with scammers who ruin it for everybody by selling deceit and lies...


      You know---Sorta like Clickbank:rolleyes:
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      • Profile picture of the author PattC
        Most customers I've had want to use Paypal, although I've had good luck with Google Checkout.
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  • Profile picture of the author grantd
    This is a shame someone needs to start a new company and crush PayPal.
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    • Profile picture of the author trevstar22
      I'm wondering if it is actually legal for paypal to carry on with these practices. Imagine if a bank kicked out your account because they don't like the business you are engaged in. Even though it is a legal business and respectable.
      Paypal trys to be the default payment system for many institutions such as ebay. They are trying to be THE online payment system, yet without warning they seem to abolish accounts with impunity.
      I think the gov't should be looking into this.
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      • Profile picture of the author onSubie
        Originally Posted by trevstar22 View Post

        I'm wondering if it is actually legal for paypal to carry on with these practices.
        In many cases NO.

        If you look around the forum you will find people who have had banned PayPal accounts reinstated by opening a case with their government body governing fair business practices.

        PayPal has quietly reinstated many accounts when faced with a formal query from a government regulatory agency.

        Many governments like the government of Canada have consumer protection agencies that ensure laws are properly followed.

        People have also had success taking PayPal to court to have their accounts reinstated.

        Simon Read: Is PayPal right to freeze customers' accounts? - Spend & Save - Money - The Independent

        Mahlon
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
          Originally Posted by onSubie View Post

          In many cases NO.

          If you look around the forum you will find people who have had banned PayPal accounts reinstated by opening a case with their government body governing fair business practices.

          PayPal has quietly reinstated many accounts when faced with a formal query from a government regulatory agency.

          Many governments like the government of Canada have consumer protection agencies that ensure laws are properly followed.

          People have also had success taking PayPal to court to have their accounts reinstated.

          Simon Read: Is PayPal right to freeze customers' accounts? - Spend & Save - Money - The Independent

          Mahlon
          That's exactly what I did.

          Twice I had accounts locked. Twice I went to regulatory agencies. Twice I got my money back, account unlocked, and then the second time paypal paid me for my trouble.

          Rob
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          • Profile picture of the author O0o0O
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            That's exactly what I did.

            Twice I had accounts locked. Twice I went to regulatory agencies. Twice I got my money back, account unlocked, and then the second time paypal paid me for my trouble.

            Rob

            What are the names of the regulatory agencies we should file a formal query to?
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          • Profile picture of the author George Wright
            Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

            That's exactly what I did.

            Twice I had accounts locked. Twice I went to regulatory agencies. Twice I got my money back, account unlocked, and then the second time paypal paid me for my trouble.

            Rob
            Rob,

            A nice little eReport/eBook on this would make a great WSO.

            George (I'd buy it) Wright
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      • Profile picture of the author philhunter
        Originally Posted by trevstar22 View Post

        I'm wondering if it is actually legal for paypal to carry on with these practices. Imagine if a bank kicked out your account because they don't like the business you are engaged in. Even though it is a legal business and respectable.
        Paypal trys to be the default payment system for many institutions such as ebay. They are trying to be THE online payment system, yet without warning they seem to abolish accounts with impunity.
        I think the gov't should be looking into this.
        The trouble is paypal are not a bank and that is how they get around keeping peoples money etc.

        If they were regulated like a bank a lot of these things would not be allowed to happen, I mean how many people would use a bank if they decided to freeze your money and keep it for months at the drop of a hat.

        Personally I don't like the government sticking there nose into things but in paypals case I think they should.
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    • Profile picture of the author ryannull
      Originally Posted by grantd View Post

      This is a shame someone needs to start a new company and crush PayPal.
      There are several other alternatives, such as:

      Google Checkout
      Worldpay
      Clickbank
      2checkout
      Authorizenet
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      • Profile picture of the author trevstar22
        Yes, there are alternatives. The problem is that most websites only
        let you pay by paypal. I wanted to buy from a website last week.
        I did not want to use the balance in my paypal acct. I wanted to use my credit card through paypal. But paypal would not allow that option.
        As long as I had money in paypal (which I was about to transfer to my bank account) they made that the only payment option.
        So I had no choice but to pay with my balance. The website only had paypal as a payment option. No credit card option.

        Trevor
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  • Profile picture of the author Arroway
    I've never heard of such behavior from an ordinary bank, and I find it hard to imagine as well. It's only with online solutions. Like everybody else, I'm waiting for a service to rise that doesn't do these things. Or better yet, for all ordinary brick and mortar banks to offer the same kind of online payments that Paypal offers. I believe it's the next step in banking and seems kinda inevitable to me. All I'm asking for is security, the knowledge that my funds won't simply be frozen or taken away, which in my books should simply be illegal.

    Allen
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  • Profile picture of the author imsas
    2checkout is a great payment platform.. I thinks it's the best alternative to Paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    What's the logic here? Doesn't Paypal lose money by kicking
    out it's customers. That's how they make money--from
    fees. They can't be the big bad wolf since they are not
    eating more but less. Or am I missing something?

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author monkseo
      In my mind paypal and ebay have lost their minds lately. In a flick of a button they can hold your money, turn off your account, and make your life a nightmare if you rely on ebay/paypal for a large part of your monthly income. It can be good, but I would recommend that as a channel in your business, not your main business model, relying on paypal/ebay or either of them 100% is not a sound business model - sorry I have lots of frustration lately with both of these companies, which are one and the same.
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    • Profile picture of the author Centurian
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      What's the logic here? Doesn't Paypal lose money by kicking
      out it's customers. That's how they make money--from
      fees. They can't be the big bad wolf since they are not
      eating more but less. Or am I missing something?

      -Ray Edwards
      PayPal is doing just that. They are refining their customer base. This was the same thing eBay did. They changed the entire focus of their business from micro business to larger corporate clients. They also shifted their model from sellers to buyers having the advantage.

      PayPal is owned by eBay. PayPal builds their business by giving buyers the advantage. They continue to piss off the people whose backs they built their business on. They are so big it doesn't matter to them. They own and control market share. They are first in mind and first in place.

      That's why we've been working on developing an alternative platform that works in the micro and small business model. Best of all our platform will deposit your money into your own bank, not PayPal's.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robin Blinds
    Originally Posted by trevstar22 View Post

    I learned yesterday morning that Paypal had (rather unexpectedly) decided to turn its sights on me, and I was notified (as have been many other users of Paypal in recent months) that they have closed/limited my Paypal account, and that I can no longer receive funds via this account.
    So what is it? Have Paypal closed your account or just limited it?
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    • Profile picture of the author trevstar22
      Originally Posted by trevstar22
      I learned yesterday morning that Paypal had (rather unexpectedly) decided to turn its sights on me, and I was notified (as have been many other users of Paypal in recent months) that they have closed/limited my Paypal account, and that I can no longer receive funds via this account.

      So what is it? Have Paypal closed your account or just limited it?

      No it is not my account they "limited" the email is from Vinny Pinto a well known alternative health consultant
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    Originally Posted by trevstar22 View Post

    I recently learned that Paypal has, for the past 6 months or longer, been engaged in a massive effort to "refine" and improve its brand name, and that it has started to systematically dissociate itself as a payment vendor for any and all websites, persons or vendors offering any services or products in the following realms: alternative health, wholistic health (their term, not mine), alternative health nutritional products, spiritual products (including healing services), energy-related services such as energy healing, and energy-type or spiritual-type water treatment products/devices.

    So long as the federal government continues to define those things as potentially fraudulent or fake services, then it is something that makes sense for PayPal from a business standpoint.

    Several of the aforementioned "products" and "services" are of a type that most consumers consider potentially fraudulent or fake services...

    I do... Especially with the Spiritual Healing services and Energy Healing stuff.

    This is a marketing forum where we talk about what needs to be done to be successful in our businesses. To be successful in yours, don't sell stuff that people consider to be questionable in their nature.
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      Several of the aforementioned "products" and "services" are of a type that most consumers consider potentially fraudulent or fake services...

      I do... Especially with the Spiritual Healing services and Energy Healing stuff.
      It seems that the "disease" is spreading. I just noticed this on Fiverr
      (not that it's new):

      "Videos related to self improvement, getting rich methods, black hat marketing and similar are not permitted at this time"

      Note how all those markets are lumped into one.

      -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author HeySal
      Originally Posted by tpw View Post

      So long as the federal government continues to define those things as potentially fraudulent or fake services, then it is something that makes sense for PayPal from a business standpoint.

      Several of the aforementioned "products" and "services" are of a type that most consumers consider potentially fraudulent or fake services...

      I do... Especially with the Spiritual Healing services and Energy Healing stuff.

      This is a marketing forum where we talk about what needs to be done to be successful in our businesses. To be successful in yours, don't sell stuff that people consider to be questionable in their nature.
      There are also a LOT of people who swear by alternative medicines. Just because you don't doesn't make them any less valid and the whole idea that being "non-conventional" and frowned on by the powerful corporations who are looking for total control doesn't mean that it should be allowed that a service that many wish to subscribe to and find to be good services should be shut down by a financial institution until they can be PROVEN to be fraudulent. Shutting someone down because it MIGHT be fraudulent is something that can be applied to any business on earth. So any business group can be targeted unjustly under those premises.

      If paypal wants to adapt policies of shutting legitimate businesses down because there is fraud in their field of business, they might find businesses starting to sue them if the closure renders the public opinion that they were operating fraudulently. If I sell vitamins, and some other business that also does decides to make wildly inaccurate claims, it doesn't make ME a charlaton - so why should it be legal to treat me as such?
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      • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
        One thing people need to keep in mind is that PayPal isn't "shutting businesses down."

        PayPal is choosing not to process payments for people involved in certain busness markets. That is well within their right.

        Think about "We reserve the right to refuse service" and apply it to the online world.

        PayPal has the right to pick and choose who they want as their customers, and if you use PayPal as a payment provider then you are their customer.

        Add to that the pressure that PayPal is under by credit card companies to clean up its act or lose the ability to process cc payments and it is very easy to see why PayPal is doing things the way they are.

        If you are involved in a market that is considered high risk it doesn't matter if you personally are not a risk, just being a part of a high risk market is enough considering the growing amount of online fraud the CC companies have to deal with.

        Also, it is much better to have the industry police itself and clean up it's own house rather than have the kind of government oversight that the U.S. will bring to bear if things continue the way they have been for much too long.


        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        If paypal wants to adapt policies of shutting legitimate businesses down because there is fraud in their field of business, they might find businesses starting to sue them if the closure renders the public opinion that they were operating fraudulently. If I sell vitamins, and some other business that also does decides to make wildly inaccurate claims, it doesn't make ME a charlaton - so why should it be legal to treat me as such?
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        • Profile picture of the author HeySal
          Originally Posted by Johnny Slater View Post

          One thing people need to keep in mind is that PayPal isn't "shutting businesses down."

          PayPal is choosing not to process payments for people involved in certain busness markets. That is well within their right.

          Think about "We reserve the right to refuse service" and apply it to the online world.

          PayPal has the right to pick and choose who they want as their customers, and if you use PayPal as a payment provider then you are their customer.

          Add to that the pressure that PayPal is under by credit card companies to clean up its act or lose the ability to process cc payments and it is very easy to see why PayPal is doing things the way they are.

          If you are involved in a market that is considered high risk it doesn't matter if you personally are not a risk, just being a part of a high risk market is enough considering the growing amount of online fraud the CC companies have to deal with.

          Also, it is much better to have the industry police itself and clean up it's own house rather than have the kind of government oversight that the U.S. will bring to bear if things continue the way they have been for much too long.
          I realize all that Johnny. Just blowing steam because it just ticks me off so badly to see what is happening in our country right now. I can see the need to "police" a payment processor - but I also think that just shutting down whole fields of business is a pretty fascist action. The pharms are trying to shut down anything alternative in medicine, Monsanto is trying to get anything organic shut down. We're on a very bad and dangerous roll for entrepreneurs and small business owners. While it's one hella bit of work to figure out who is scamming and who isn't individually, a free market needs to leave people alone that are operating above board or anyone in any market is in jeopardy of shut down any time a corporation with enough power decides to shut down competition.

          I just have a real voova for the whole issue. Are there a LOT of scammers in some industries? Oh yeah. To shut off means of payment to others in that industry who are operating above board is pretty scary, though. What is happening online is just a reflection of what is going on every day in the brick and mortar world right now. It scares me crapless. We should not need a government or bank "seal of approval" to choose what industry we want to work in - and this is exactly what this kind of action promotes.
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          Sal
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          • Profile picture of the author wizzard74
            Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

            I realize all that Johnny. Just blowing steam because it just ticks me off so badly to see what is happening in our country right now. I can see the need to "police" a payment processor - but I also think that just shutting down whole fields of business is a pretty fascist action. The pharms are trying to shut down anything alternative in medicine, Monsanto is trying to get anything organic shut down. We're on a very bad and dangerous roll for entrepreneurs and small business owners. While it's one hella bit of work to figure out who is scamming and who isn't individually, a free market needs to leave people alone that are operating above board or anyone in any market is in jeopardy of shut down any time a corporation with enough power decides to shut down competition.

            I just have a real voova for the whole issue. Are there a LOT of scammers in some industries? Oh yeah. To shut off means of payment to others in that industry who are operating above board is pretty scary, though. What is happening online is just a reflection of what is going on every day in the brick and mortar world right now. It scares me crapless. We should not need a government or bank "seal of approval" to choose what industry we want to work in - and this is exactly what this kind of action promotes.
            Paypal aren't shutting businesses down, the businesses that are shutting down are those that are solely reliant on paypal for their payment processing, that's not paypal's fault.
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              Originally Posted by wizzard74 View Post

              Paypal aren't shutting businesses down, the businesses that are shutting down are those that are solely reliant on paypal for their payment processing, that's not paypal's fault.
              Take that one step further - PayPal is starting to refuse to process payments in specific fields, and this situation is due to force from CC companies. What happens if ALL payment processors start to follow this trend. Can YOU run a business once payment processors, CC companies, and possibly even banks in the future refuse to deal with a business in your field of choice? It's a dangerous trend and the fact that it is happening via one processor is full indication that it can spread to all of them.
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              Sal
              When the Roads and Paths end, learn to guide yourself through the wilderness
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      • Profile picture of the author tpw
        Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

        So long as the federal government continues to define those things as potentially fraudulent or fake services, then it is something that makes sense for PayPal from a business standpoint.

        Several of the aforementioned "products" and "services" are of a type that most consumers consider potentially fraudulent or fake services...

        I do... Especially with the Spiritual Healing services and Energy Healing stuff.

        This is a marketing forum where we talk about what needs to be done to be successful in our businesses. To be successful in yours, don't sell stuff that people consider to be questionable in their nature.

        There are also a LOT of people who swear by alternative medicines. Just because you don't doesn't make them any less valid and the whole idea that being "non-conventional" and frowned on by the powerful corporations who are looking for total control doesn't mean that it should be allowed that a service that many wish to subscribe to and find to be good services should be shut down by a financial institution until they can be PROVEN to be fraudulent. Shutting someone down because it MIGHT be fraudulent is something that can be applied to any business on earth. So any business group can be targeted unjustly under those premises.

        If paypal wants to adapt policies of shutting legitimate businesses down because there is fraud in their field of business, they might find businesses starting to sue them if the closure renders the public opinion that they were operating fraudulently. If I sell vitamins, and some other business that also does decides to make wildly inaccurate claims, it doesn't make ME a charlaton - so why should it be legal to treat me as such?

        The alternative medicine was described by PayPal, not by me.

        As I said, I have issues with "Spiritual Healing services and Energy Healing stuff" being considered legitimate.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Wait guys... PayPal is NOT a bunch of a-holes... They are in the business of risk management. If you make a lot of money all at once and never have before then you will trigger one of their flags.

    They will ask you to produce paperwork to prove you are who you say you are and that you are operating within the law.

    All is good... However, the main reason most people are being shut down is because their risk is too high. For instance, as soon as they make $50,000 they pull it all out.

    Look at PayPal's side of things and you'd realize that if someone made hundreds of thousands of dollars, pulled it all out and there were 10% refunds then PayPal would be left holding the bag.

    If you make large sums of money and leave a good amount of it in your account then you should be just fine.
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    • Profile picture of the author Paleochora
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      Wait guys... PayPal is NOT a bunch of a-holes... They are in the business of risk management. If you make a lot of money all at once and never have before then you will trigger one of their flags.

      They will ask you to produce paperwork to prove you are who you say you are and that you are operating within the law.

      All is good... However, the main reason most people are being shut down is because their risk is too high. For instance, as soon as they make $50,000 they pull it all out.

      Look at PayPal's side of things and you'd realize that if someone made hundreds of thousands of dollars, pulled it all out and there were 10% refunds then PayPal would be left holding the bag.

      If you make large sums of money and leave a good amount of it in your account then you should be just fine.
      Mike,

      It's a "Chicken & Egg" situation at play here. The same argument that makes people do a run on a bank.

      The reason that people draw out ASAP is that they have little confidence in Paypal. They do not want some flag going up and then not being able to get at thousands of dollars for 6 months...if at all. This can be a business destroyer.

      If PP did not go around limiting accounts almost at random, then people would be more happy and relaxed about leaving a substantial balance in there.

      Having said that, if I had Paypal, I would distance myself from the WooWoo merchants and snake-oil folks.
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      • Profile picture of the author Miles Kral
        It seems to me there is a "higher than thou" mentality in the banking industry. I think this goes back to the whole industry being deregulated back in the eighties. Now there is little government control over the industry, they have all the money, so they think they can do whatever they want.
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        • Profile picture of the author dvduval
          Originally Posted by Miles Kral View Post

          It seems to me there is a "higher than thou" mentality in the banking industry. I think this goes back to the whole industry being deregulated back in the eighties. Now there is little government control over the industry, they have all the money, so they think they can do whatever they want.
          I think it is similar to the situation with Google and drugs from Canada. The difference is Paypal is being more proactive than Google, rather than having everything revolve around profits.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by trevstar22 View Post

    Paypal has, for the past 6 months or longer, been engaged in a massive effort to "refine" and improve its brand name, and that it has started to systematically dissociate itself as a payment vendor for any and all websites, persons or vendors offering any services or products in the following realms: alternative health, wholistic health (their term, not mine), alternative health nutritional products, spiritual products (including healing services), energy-related services such as energy healing, and energy-type or spiritual-type water treatment products/devices.
    I've also heard exactly the same thing, myself.

    From PayPal's perspective, those are pretty high-risk online businesses to which to cater for the transaction-processing, because - to put it politely - the efficacy of some of the products/services sold is somewhat questionable, the refund-rates are typically high (for PayPal, that tends to be a real concern), and so on.

    I use PayPal and I'm just as concerned about the apparently ever-increasing "PayPal horror stories" as anyone else here.

    But on this specific issue (the alleged facts of which are, I think, just about well-known enough not really to be contentious: i.e. PayPal really is trying to do this), to be fair, I do actually find it kind of understandable, from their perspective.

    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    If you make large sums of money and leave a good amount of it in your account then you should be just fine.
    This just can't be said often enough.

    It's very common, especially in this forum, to see people saying (and even "advising"!) "I use PayPal because I have to but I don't really trust them, so I empty my account very regularly and don't leave much there."

    These people presumably genuinely don't realize that from PayPal's viewpoint, that's real "red flag behavior", and of course they're going to be the ones who have the problems, typically not realising that - to a large extent - they did it to themselves.
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  • Profile picture of the author kasher9
    I reckon it's to do with the problems they've had with the health niche in terms of product returns. Paypal has always been awful, yet we continue to use it. If I could I'd direct all the world's merchant traffic to Alertpay, they're not as known but they're much more reliable.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by kasher9 View Post

      I reckon it's to do with the problems they've had with the health niche in terms of product returns.
      It's not about "the health niche", Kasher.

      It's about some parts (the "energy-healing-based" parts) of the alternative health markets. This is something totally different, and widely considered to be entirely fraudulent.

      Originally Posted by kasher9 View Post

      If I could I'd direct all the world's merchant traffic to Alertpay, they're not as known but they're much more reliable.
      They're also unable to accept credit-card payments.

      The opinion of one of our Senior Attorney Warriors, internet lawyer Brian Kindsvater, might interest you, on this subect: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5580761
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    I could understand paypal choosing to dissociate itself from business types that potentially could result in a lawsuit against paypal. It makes sense to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author wizzard74
    I love the way people quickly jump on paypal's back for being the "bad" guys. For one we don't even know that his account has been closed. Any one can put a negative spin on it because it affects them.

    Paypal are well within their rights to pick and choose who they deal with. If they've indeed been burned with continuous refunds from a certain niche, then they have every right to act how they did.

    As already pointed out, paypal like you to have a certain amount of money in your account to cover any disputes or refunds.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    PayPal wants to distance themselves from the fringe element of a particular market. And for that they suck? Maybe you'd have the government come in and force them to serve any and all markets. Maybe you should form a PAC and lobby congress to MAKE them do what you want. :rolleyes:
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Russ
    Which regulatory agencies, Rob?
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  • Profile picture of the author J Bold
    I think there was a pretty damning article sometime in the last few years about Paypal employees being accused of using the money from frozen accounts to invest and earn interest in their own bank accounts or short term gains investments or something like that. Then when the 6 months was up, make sure the money was all there to be withdrawn by the person whose account was shut down, minus all the interest they earned with that money, of course.

    If I search around I can find it. That would have to be pretty illegal though, wouldn't it? (rhetorical question)
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    Paypal sucks the latest bombshell? Lol....

    facepalm.JPG

    -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author FrankRumbauskas
    I dropped PayPal in 2003 and have never looked back. I still scratch my head and wonder why anyone uses them. And when I encounter a merchant that only accepts PayPal instead of credit cards via a real merchant account, I shop elsewhere.
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  • Profile picture of the author icegin
    I rely pretty heavily on Paypal when it comes to sending/receiving payment -- looks like I should look elsewhere just to be cautious.

    Thanks for sharing.
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  • Profile picture of the author wakins4u
    Paypal is really feeling untouchable right now.... I just wish competitors would rise up to match paypal at its game!

    Although my transactions thus far have been smooth with paypal, nonetheless I would like equal or better alternatives to rise up!
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    • Profile picture of the author yohoho
      Originally Posted by wakins4u View Post

      Paypal is really feeling untouchable right now.... I just wish competitors would rise up to match paypal at its game!
      Although my transactions thus far have been smooth with paypal, nonetheless I would like equal or better alternatives to rise up!

      So, we should be letting PayPal know how we feel about this. If people want to spend their money in the "alternative health and energy etc" areas who is PayPal to tell them they can't?

      There are a lot of people here at the Warrior forum who depend on PayPal in one way or another and perhaps we should be emailing PayPal as a group and letting them know how we feel. I don't mean to email bomb them but just email them with a WarriorForum signature telling them that they should mind their own business and not everyone else's. Of course I am sure we could come up with a better way of saying it than that. I think we should be able to influence PayPal's thinking on things like this. Imagine how they would be effected by a WarriorForum boycott of their services?


      Yohoho
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    I hear you. They are a pain. Last year I got my account shut down because they were doing an investigation. I had bought an SEO e-book from some one. This person was on their list so anyone that bought the e-book was shut down.

    I told them I do a lot of business with ebay and they said that - That is your problem, and it is not ours. I call ebay up. They are the parent company. Finally, after a month of complaining my account was back up. Then I can start selling... again.

    This was because I bought an e-book mind you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
    Sweet. Now if only Clickbank would shut down the "Make money online in 5 seconds using my super secret software by pressing this big money button" niche......
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  • Profile picture of the author daj
    While I think Paypal has become too big for it's own good. I can see why they would get rid of those people who are selling products/services with ridiculous promises & claims.

    Vinny Pinto calls himself a "spiritual healer". "He offers non-contact, non-local spiritual healing at a distance (aka "distance healing" or "remote healing"). His work is purely on a spiritual level, and does not involve "energies". Vinny feels that his healing is accomplished by "tuning in" to God/Being/Spirit on a very deep level, and allowing God Being/Spirit to work with and through him via Grace and Love. He also has available 43 angelic helpers, who assist in guidance as well as in the actual healing work." - divine-heart.org

    The guy belongs in a mental ward along with other con artist lightworkers who continue to suck money out of the pockets of sick & gullible people. If anything Paypal did the right thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      While I think Paypal has become too big for it's own good. I can see why they would get rid of those people who are selling products/services with ridiculous promises & claims.

      Vinny Pinto calls himself a "spiritual healer". "He offers non-contact, non-local spiritual healing at a distance (aka "distance healing" or "remote healing"). His work is purely on a spiritual level, and does not involve "energies". Vinny feels that his healing is accomplished by "tuning in" to God/Being/Spirit on a very deep level, and allowing God Being/Spirit to work with and through him via Grace and Love. He also has available 43 angelic helpers, who assist in guidance as well as in the actual healing work." - divine-heart.org

      The guy belongs in a mental ward along with other con artist lightworkers who continue to suck money out of the pockets of sick & gullible people. If anything Paypal did the right thing.
      If paypal had stopped accepting payments for Vinto, they would have done the right thing, but to clump everyone who "they" perceive as has having even the remotest similarity together was wrong.

      I believe they should refuse business transactions based on individual businesses, case by case with the refund requests and charge backs and complaints on that business. But I think they don't want to do that because they believe it would take too many resources and too much time therefore costing them more money!

      Yep, the craze that has taken the whole world by storm and that is putting the value of the mighty dollar above the value of the human being! :rolleyes:

      Terra
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      • Profile picture of the author RyanLester
        Is there another option besides Paypal? I think that this company is abusing its power tremendously being that it is one of few players in its field. We need more competitors.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aremutola
    I don't know why libertyreserve won't grow up and knock paypal out, i hate that company.
    They don't accept most african countries and i hate that
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  • Profile picture of the author ICELP
    When you sign up w. PayPal, you are basically accepting that they have the power to do whatever they decide to do, vis a vis their acceptance of payments (or not) with respect to any given User, line of business, etc.. You'll find all of this explained in detail in PayPal Means Business! (pun intended) at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/PayPal-Means-Business--Depth-Model/dp/1466333502/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330452341&sr=8-1[/URL]
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  • Profile picture of the author mydream247
    Paypal has become the walmart of payment processors by attempting to dominate their market, I was a power seller on ebay 5 years, until ebay and paypal raised there fees listing and seller fees to the point where sellers could no longer afford to do business profit margin cut in half.

    Paypal has become a household word among customer and businesses who sell online, and with ebay backing it is going to be hard for a competitor to come in and compete, but I sure hope someone does soon or else what's next with this sopa none sense and google history update march 1st who knows how far this will go.
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    • Profile picture of the author philhunter
      Originally Posted by mydream247 View Post

      Paypal has become the walmart of payment processors by attempting to dominate their market, I was a power seller on ebay 5 years, until ebay and paypal raised there fees listing and seller fees to the point where sellers could no longer afford to do business profit margin cut in half.

      Paypal has become a household word among customer and businesses who sell online, and with ebay backing it is going to be hard for a competitor to come in and compete, but I sure hope someone does soon or else what's next with this sopa none sense and google history update march 1st who knows how far this will go.
      Not only are they a household name but they are a monopoly that abuse there power too.

      I remember when ebay said google checkout were not allowed to be taken as a payment becuase they were a 'Startup' company lol, not sure if its allowed now though.
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  • Profile picture of the author wizzard74
    Another suggestion, let's stop bitching about how paypal conducts their business, move on, find alternative payment processors and get back to running our businesses
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  • Profile picture of the author jrgattison
    Hi all. My take is this. I've been selling online for over 10 years and I used to blame PayPal when my account got shut down and I wasn't in a position to take the hit. For the most part it was my lack of preparation that made it difficult to deal with.

    I'm referring to consistently making 5-7 thousand dollars per month selling on ebay alone not to mention direct sales to contacts I made through ebay.

    Now I have a different outlook and understand that PayPal, ebay and Amazon have to protect their interest first, not yours, if they're going to stay in business. If they stay in business it gives us the opportunity grow and sustain a business.

    Don't get pissed off anymore. Look from their standpoint of dealing with MILLIONS of customers in THOUSANDS of different categories with people using HUNDREDS of different excuses as to why this or that happened.

    Although I've felt wronged by PayPal at times in the past, I am thankful that I have the ability to sell products and services from the comfort of my home or office and get paid instantly(at least the majority of times when my funds aren't on hold:0).

    Get in a better position and diversify your sales channels so that when one is PMSing you can still function.

    That's my take on it.

    I wish success for you all,

    Kendall
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  • Profile picture of the author JaySG
    That's too bad... Have you tried alternatives like alertpay, moneybookers, 2co? Paypal has been difficult to deal with for many marketers lately, never put your eggs in one basket, specially if you have good money sitting around on your Paypal account when in any moment they can freeze your account.
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  • Profile picture of the author revjoe
    I hear propay is pretty good.
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    • One of the issues no one has discussed, yet is the question of the "donation button" mentioned by the OP. I am familiar with some fundraising practices in various niches.

      If you are accepting "donations" online (this is a common practice for many plug-ins, software, themes, etc), the implication may be that you are representing a legally chartered non-profit organization.

      Many sites using donation buttons are not. Many are for-profit individuals accepting "donations" for their work. Problems can ensue if you are not not making it clear to the public that these funds are not tax deductible....huge mess.

      Whether you are a legally chartered, non-profit organization or not, if you are accepting "donations" on your website, and you use Paypal, you may want to consult a qualified adviser, or expect issues to arise, eventually.

      Its just good business to clarify your status for you and your site visitors.

      BTW, I am not offering, nor am I qualified to offer legal or tax advice!

      -CP
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      • Profile picture of the author smadronia
        Originally Posted by creative producer View Post

        One of the issues no one has discussed, yet is the question of the "donation button" mentioned by the OP. I am familiar with some fundraising practices in various niches.

        If you are accepting "donations" online (this is a common practice for many plug-ins, software, themes, etc), the implication may be that you are representing a legally chartered non-profit organization.
        Actually, there's no implication like that. The donation button can be used for anything, a sick cat, paying for hosting fees, buying you alcohol, etc.
        Here's an email to the woman who runs Regretsy, from her whole PayPal fiasco last December.
        http://static.regretsy.com/wp-conten.../466860922.jpg
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  • I'm surprised nobody here has posted about that huge FTC case involving the **** Berry vendor who scammed his customers and had to pay the FTC $350 million dollars. If you haven't read about this yet, click here:

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ing-ftc-2.html

    NOW, check out what one warrior said in response to that,

    These kind of dishonest marketers ruin the image of marketers everywhere, unfortunately. ...and they help make certain niche markets and certain methods of sale, 'radioactive'. So, when they get done, credit card processors and PPC providers, media buying firms, etc want nothing to do with these niches....sort of scorched earth.
    In my opinion, this could be just another great example of a bad apple ruining it for everyone else. Major scam exposes liability to everyone involved in a niche, included financial transaction companies ---> nobody wants to touch that niche anymore, not even paypal.
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  • Profile picture of the author smadronia
    This isn't the first time I've seen problems with Paypal. Have you heard about the big fit they threw with Regretsy? They cut off Regretsy's PayPal account, and the site owner's personal account, because they were accepting donations to give some kids a decent Christmas.

    It ended up blowing up on PayPal big time. But, Regretsy has millions of viewers, and most average folks don't have an army of angry people to write letters on their behalf.

    Smashwords, the ebook publishing company has also been hit with problems, because PayPal doesn't want it's services being used for erotica, or at least anything they deem acceptable (they have a list). So Smashwords, which had a lot of PayPal links, had to do a lot of changing and contacting authors to be able to keep their PayPal account.

    Paypal thinks they can do what they want, because they're big. The problem is there aren't a lot of competitors. I've looked into WePay, because you can set up a store that way, but I'm not 100% certain how it all works out. It's an option at least.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul_1
    Perhaps paypal is getting a lot of refunds and complaints in those niches they're trying to disassociate with...
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  • Profile picture of the author YoungLoft
    i actually like the ways paypal works. its very safe
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  • Profile picture of the author commonjoe
    A few of the ones I have used instead of paypal are solidtrustpay and alertpay. The functionality is the same and it can be used worldwide.
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