Can Someone Explain - "Let Them Decide to Buy" Instead of "You Selling Them"

27 replies
This confuses me.

Many people talk about this...saying it is better to let the prospect decide for themselves to purchase your product, rather than try to convince them to buy.

If you are asking for the order - with a scarcity tactic no less, how is this not pressuring them to buy?

In my mind...giving them cool stuff which makes them want to buy on their own means write some good content or give a good content video and then just have a link to your product or salespage.

But doesn't any salespage have things like bonus pile-ons, scarcity, reasons why you need this now, etc?

I'm having a problem making the distinction between the two.

Any comments are appreciated
#explain #let them decide to buy #you selling them
  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    It's kind of like getting a horse to go in one direction or another...

    You can put a carrot in front of them and lead them and they will go willing or...

    you can use a whip and try to get them to go

    One works a lot better than the other - guess which one?
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

      It's kind of like getting a horse to go in one direction or another...

      You can put a carrot in front of them and lead them and they will go willing or...

      you can use a whip and try to get them to go

      One works a lot better than the other - guess which one?
      I understand that, but I meant more in terms of salescopy. Two exact quotes, from 2 different salesletters/salescopy would be the perfect example.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
    Originally Posted by ProductCreator View Post

    Here's an example. Ever seen those CB pages where you click order and then are presented with a choice?

    These convert even better than direct to order page.

    This is because you give them a choice and you change their mode of thinking from "should I buy" to "which one should I buy". This is something I will do in future for my products when I have developed some upsell alternatives.
    Do you have an example link?

    But, I was actually thinking more in terms of the salescopy.

    Frank Kern is a huge proponent of this - but it's hard to find in a salesletter.

    The theory, as I understand it, goes...you are supposed to come across like a friend recommending a product instead of a salesman selling something...

    Any examples on this?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tina Golden
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
        Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises View Post

        I don't have specific examples for your but maybe this will help.

        "Selling people" often involves telling them why they need your product and what it will do. This tends to be pushier than the other method.

        "Letting them decide" is when you get them to sell themselves by engaging their imaginations. Get them to see themselves owning the true benefit of your product.

        Tina G
        So your "letting them decide" would have wording of this type...

        Lets say it a product on hitting longer golf drives (why does everyone use golf as an example?)

        --
        Let me ask you something...Can you imagine the look on your buddies faces if they saw you hit a drive around 300 yards each and every time you teed - off?

        Do ya think they would be just a wee bit jealous?

        Can you imagine finally mastering that frustrating task of hitting your tee shot longer than you ever have before - and with less effort?
        --

        Is that what you mean, rather than...

        --
        If you want to drive the golf ball 300 yards, you need buy my new "drive like the pros" system today. There is no equal.

        Are you sick of being the "lite hitter" of your group?

        Well, this new program will solve that issue for you.
        --

        A good example of the 2?
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
    Let's take it to the realm of one-on-one, belly-to-belly selling...

    Which do you think might work better?

    "Here's the order form. Sign here. I said, sign here dammit. Just sign the mother-bleeping thing already. Are you ready to sign. Just sign it, please. Pretty please. This isn't funny. Sign that order form right now!..."

    Or

    "Okay, if you buy this whatsit today, you can be using your new whatsit to reach nirvana tonight. And I know you said you want to reach nirvana as soon as possible. Oh, and if you buy this whatsit now, you also get this thingamajiggy that makes the nirvana last for a lot longer, no extra charge. I should tell you, we only have a few whatsits left, so should I set one aside for you now, then we can do the paperwork and get you on the way to nirvana..."

    First case, you're hard-selling. Second case, you're helping them decide to buy.

    Even if the first guy gets the order, it'll probably be cancelled before he hits the street.

    "A person convinced against their will is a person who needs convincing still."

    Does that help?
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

      Let's take it to the realm of one-on-one, belly-to-belly selling...

      Which do you think might work better?

      "Here's the order form. Sign here. I said, sign here dammit. Just sign the mother-bleeping thing already. Are you ready to sign. Just sign it, please. Pretty please. This isn't funny. Sign that order form right now!..."

      Or

      "Okay, if you buy this whatsit today, you can be using your new whatsit to reach nirvana tonight. And I know you said you want to reach nirvana as soon as possible. Oh, and if you buy this whatsit now, you also get this thingamajiggy that makes the nirvana last for a lot longer, no extra charge. I should tell you, we only have a few whatsits left, so should I set one aside for you now, then we can do the paperwork and get you on the way to nirvana..."

      First case, you're hard-selling. Second case, you're helping them decide to buy.

      Even if the first guy gets the order, it'll probably be cancelled before he hits the street.

      "A person convinced against their will is a person who needs convincing still."

      Does that help?
      Does anyone really do your first example?

      You see, I many times, would consider your second example hard selling.

      For instance: if you email someone 3 days in a row with a story about the benefits your product can give them...

      maybe each day your email expands on 1 benefit you mentioned in the salesletter - and then say to them at the bottom of the email - to get your product today (maybe some bonus ends shortly, or whatever other scarcity tactic you use)

      In my mind, that's hard selling.

      Perhaps it my conception that is misguided.

      If you try too hard not to be selling, than you never ask for the order and just keep giving people stuff and advice and they have no reason to buy from you.

      If you remember my other thread John, about giving away free stuff, ties in here in my mind.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

    This confuses me.

    Many people talk about this...saying it is better to let the prospect decide for themselves to purchase your product, rather than try to convince them to buy.

    If you are asking for the order - with a scarcity tactic no less, how is this not pressuring them to buy?

    In my mind...giving them cool stuff which makes them want to buy on their own means write some good content or give a good content video and then just have a link to your product or salespage.

    But doesn't any salespage have things like bonus pile-ons, scarcity, reasons why you need this now, etc?

    I'm having a problem making the distinction between the two.

    Any comments are appreciated
    Please don't confuse these approaches. Not asking for the sale DIRECTLY
    is the "soft-sell" approach that works best in "white papers" and articles etc.

    For the DM sales letter you are doing hard-selling and asking for the sale!

    Frank Kern seldom sells in HIS EMAILS THE PRODUCTS he wants you
    to buy because he is SELLING THE WEBSITE LINK and not the product.
    He depends on the sales letter or video to do the hard selling.

    All those 'launch' products use the soft-sell approach in the FREE REPORT
    but do the hard selling later in the main sales letter.

    A press release is also another example of a 'soft sell' approach.

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Please don't confuse these approaches. Not asking for the sale DIRECTLY
      is the "soft-sell" approach that works best in "white papers" and articles etc.

      For the DM sales letter you are doing hard-selling and asking for the sale!

      Frank Kern seldom sells in HIS EMAILS THE PRODUCTS he wants you
      to buy because he is SELLING THE WEBSITE LINK and not the product.
      He depends on the sales letter or video to do the hard selling.

      All those 'launch' products use the soft-sell approach in the FREE REPORT
      but do the hard selling later in the main sales letter.

      A press release is also another example of a 'soft sell' approach.

      -Ray Edwards
      Hmmm, are you saying the personal "friend like" approach warms them up to be more open to the salesletter when they do read it, or re-read it. Kind of akin to pre-selling.

      Although, aren't Kern's salesletters, and Eben Pagan's for that matter written in that "friend talking to you tone as well" instead of hard selling and asking for the order?
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

        Hmmm, are you saying the personal "friend like" approach warms them up to be more open to the salesletter when they do read it, or re-read it. Kind of akin to pre-selling.

        Although, aren't Kern's salesletters, and Eben Pagan's for that matter written in that "friend talking to you tone as well" instead of hard selling and asking for the order?
        They may not have that Sham-Wow, Billy Mays carnie barker tone to them, but make no mistake - those puppies are selling hard. Both Kern and Pagan have their eyes firmly fixed on getting the reader to click on the buy button, and everything in those letters is there to aid that response.
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  • Profile picture of the author Thomas
    Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

    I'm having a problem making the distinction between the two.
    I wouldn't waste too much brain power on it; for the most part it amounts to little more than semantics used by people who want to convince you they know something you don't.

    Of course, that's just my personal opinion; I see some people above equating "Let Them Decide to Buy" and "You Selling Them" as being the same as 'soft sell' and 'hard sell': very soft selling and very hard selling, and everything in between, work well for different people and different products or services. Those who say "soft selling is best" or "the hard sell is better" aren't telling the full story.

    Tommy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

      I wouldn't waste too much brain power on it; for the most part it amounts to little more than semantics used by people who want to convince you they know something you don't.

      Of course, that's just my personal opinion; I see some people above equating "Let Them Decide to Buy" and "You Selling Them" as being the same as 'soft sell' and 'hard sell': very soft selling and very hard selling, and everything in between, work well for different people and different products or services. Those who say "soft selling is best" or "the hard sell is better" aren't telling the full story.

      Tommy.
      I completely disagree. They ARE different approaches to selling, not
      just terms use to impress readers. One goes for the jugular while
      the other woos/educates.

      But again, every profession has in terms used to differentiate the
      layman from the professional.

      -Ray Edwards
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      The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas
        Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

        I completely disagree.
        I disagree with your disagreement.
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        • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
          One of the reasons for my confusion with this issue is, I think, I have been selling stuff online for years and years, I think since the 90's.

          And, I know most single long scrolling pages are salesletters, that are trying to sell me something.

          Now, when you write a direct salesletter page to a different industry - specifically an industry that is not too web savvy, do they know that those long pages, with the headlines and benefits are going to try to sell you something?

          I remember Corey Rudl's course way back when said...don't make it obvious you are selling something...let the reader get excited by the reading the benefits first, and only then mention that they can get the benefits by purchasing your product.

          So, in my eyes, everything is trying to sell me something, which is fine. I don't automatically click the back button or close the browser because someone is trying to sell me something, however maybe other markets have prospects who do this.

          What I'm seeing is that lots of you are saying the distinction of...

          Getting people to want to buy your product

          with

          Selling People Something

          Is simply how you word something.

          Maybe I'm so used to writing sales copy that when I start reading the benefits I can get or am told to picture a desired outcome, or am told a story about how this person figured out the secret, I think...ok, they are selling me something.
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          • Profile picture of the author Lanadili
            Actually this is called pre-sell. Getting your visitors in the buying mode so they pull out their credit card by the time they land on the merchants page. Pre-sell is more or less informing your visitor about the product - the good, AND the bad. You want to come across as a friend, someone they can trust, and when you can do that, they will buy from you.

            Perfect example is like talking to your best friend. If he asked your advice on a certain item that you purchased lately, you wouldn't start saying, "Oh Yeah! That's the BEST product EVER!! BUY NOW!". I'm sure your friend would look at you like you've lost your mind. You would more than likely tell him what the benefits are of this said item, and even what the downfall is. Let's say you just bought a Wii console. Benefit - it's great for the whole family. Downside - If your not in shape, you'll have sore muscles. Another example might be a book you bought recently. Benefit - It caught your attention and you couldn't put it down. Downside - It was a rather large book and took awhile to read.

            Pre-sell can be in the form of many things, testominals, reviews, etc. But it's actually different than selling, because your not *telling* them to buy, your merely dropping a link so they can check it out. It may seem kinda odd, but it really does work. Just make sure to give your visitor enough information so they can decide - the good and the bad.
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        • Profile picture of the author Raydal
          Originally Posted by Thomas View Post

          I disagree with your disagreement.
          You see ... that's an example of hard selling.

          A soft well would be, "You disagreement leaves a lot of questions in my mind"

          -Ray Edwards
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          The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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          • Profile picture of the author Thomas
            Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

            You see ... that's an example of hard selling.

            A soft well would be, "You disagreement leaves a lot of questions in my mind"
            Touché.
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  • Profile picture of the author winebuddy
    Here ya go...

    "Let me take you into the sometimes twisted, and dangerous world of internet marketing... sure, you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars, but you could go BANKRUPT in the process.

    But, and this is a good thing, there are ways to remove all of the danger."

    The above is an example of getting attention and then WITHOUT telling or selling, alude to the benefits of your offer.
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    "Knowledge is NOT power... ACTION on Knowledge is power"
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by winebuddy View Post

      Here ya go...

      "Let me take you into the sometimes twisted, and dangerous world of internet marketing... sure, you can make hundreds of thousands of dollars, but you could go BANKRUPT in the process.

      But, and this is a good thing, there are ways to remove all of the danger."

      The above is an example of getting attention and then WITHOUT telling or selling, alude to the benefits of your offer.
      And what would the other copy be? Just to see a comparison.
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  • Profile picture of the author brandonhess
    I would say sell yourself, not the product. If some one can trust you and you will be there for them, they will be more likely to join you.

    You also need to be behind a good product.
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  • Profile picture of the author T2
    The biggest difference between selling the customer and letting the customer decide to buy is how the customer percieves the benefits of the product. I am starting to see more sales letters that focus on features - those tend to be harder sell type pages or rely on other marketing techniques to close the sale

    A sales letter that explains the benefits of the product will have a customer that sees and understands those benefits will want to buy long before he or she sees the payment button.

    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Stanley
    Frank Kern just released a video on this more or less, check it out:

    http://www.masscontrolsite.com/results.php
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    • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
      Originally Posted by Eric Stanley View Post

      Frank Kern just released a video on this more or less, check it out:

      http://www.masscontrolsite.com/results.php
      This is what started me on this thread. That video about desire making someone want to buy and how to build desire by way of giving results in advance...but still, somewhere along the line...you have to sell them something.

      A friend recommends something, but a salesletter sells something. That's where the confusion comes in.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by jamawebinc View Post

        This is what started me on this thread. That video about desire making someone want to buy and how to build desire by way of giving results in advance...but still, somewhere along the line...you have to sell them something.

        A friend recommends something, but a salesletter sells something. That's where the confusion comes in.
        If you listen carefully, Kern isn't talking about giving away the whole enchilada. He's talking about giving a taste of what the whole meal could be like.

        Let's say you have a product about list-building...

        My desire is for a large, responsive list that makes me money every time I send them an email.

        So you show me how to set up my autoresponder account, and the test messages I send to myself come right on schedule. Now I'm much more ready to believe you when you come back and tell me I need a landing page. And I've seen those test messages land in my inbox, so I really want to build that large, responsive list.

        You even show me how to construct a landing page. I put one together and sign up for my own list. I ask a few friends to sign up, too. And they end up in the database, getting the test messages just like they're supposed to. You take another step up the "knows his stuff" meter, and I'm waiting for what you have next.

        And so on...

        By the time I reach the free line, and you're ready to sell me something, I have an autoresponder account. I know how to build a landing page. I know how to put a message in the sequence. I know how to send a broadcast.

        And I really, really, really want that large responsive list - and the money they're going to send me every time I send an email.

        Now you pitch me your membership site/home study course/coaching program or whatever the first paid step on your product ladder is. You get me to jump the free line and start paying you.

        I know the mechanics of list-building.

        I know that, at least so far, you really know your stuff.

        I know I really want that result even more than before I started.

        And I know there's a lot of stuff I still don't know.

        Who am I most likely to reach out to to teach me what's missing?

        Think it might be you?

        On the other hand, it you just pitch me on buying an ebook or course on list-building, you have a much longer, harder row to hoe convincing me you have anything better than the other six list-building ebooks I already have...
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        • Profile picture of the author jamawebinc
          Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

          If you listen carefully, Kern isn't talking about giving away the whole enchilada. He's talking about giving a taste of what the whole meal could be like.

          Let's say you have a product about list-building...

          My desire is for a large, responsive list that makes me money every time I send them an email.

          So you show me how to set up my autoresponder account, and the test messages I send to myself come right on schedule. Now I'm much more ready to believe you when you come back and tell me I need a landing page. And I've seen those test messages land in my inbox, so I really want to build that large, responsive list.

          You even show me how to construct a landing page. I put one together and sign up for my own list. I ask a few friends to sign up, too. And they end up in the database, getting the test messages just like they're supposed to. You take another step up the "knows his stuff" meter, and I'm waiting for what you have next.

          And so on...

          By the time I reach the free line, and you're ready to sell me something, I have an autoresponder account. I know how to build a landing page. I know how to put a message in the sequence. I know how to send a broadcast.

          And I really, really, really want that large responsive list - and the money they're going to send me every time I send an email.

          Now you pitch me your membership site/home study course/coaching program or whatever the first paid step on your product ladder is. You get me to jump the free line and start paying you.

          I know the mechanics of list-building.

          I know that, at least so far, you really know your stuff.

          I know I really want that result even more than before I started.

          And I know there's a lot of stuff I still don't know.

          Who am I most likely to reach out to to teach me what's missing?

          Think it might be you?

          On the other hand, it you just pitch me on buying an ebook or course on list-building, you have a much longer, harder row to hoe convincing me you have anything better than the other six list-building ebooks I already have...
          I understand your reply perfectly.

          The thing is, Kern's stuff works perfectly with a launch.

          The content is drip fed...slowly.

          First you are given a couple of videos (with an opt-in form in between) so he can build a new "interested" list.

          These videos are good and build your desire to see more.

          Actually there is nothing for sale yet so he can't sell you (he can mention a launch coming in a few weeks, but he can't sell it to you yet)

          The job of these videos is to trust Frank and to increase desire to see his next videos.

          Then those videos are strategically announced, with (I believe another opt-in in the middle) possibly to qualify the REAL followers and leads.

          And your trust and thinking of "this guy makes sense" increases.

          What he is doing is pre-selling you by getting you into an open frame of mind so when the time comes that you are presented with a full out hard sell message, you don't resist the hard sell as much....Not to mention the scarcity tactics that will be added and piled on with fast mover bonuses, etc.

          It's a great system, and it is a highly contrived system.

          All the free videos are already made, but they are not all released at once.

          Now, how to make that system work in a non launch environment...a lot of tweaking would be needed.
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