When you ask for a refund please don't...

54 replies
Hey,

Here's a call to everyone in our business. When you ask for a refund please do a few things...

1. Please don't get extremely angry, irate, rude, and nasty in your responses.

2. Please be patient because we are all people too (customer support staff, marketers, vendors, affiliates, etc).

Let me give you a bit of a story.

Today I realized I dropped the ball. I didn't check my support desk for about a week and had some big launches go out the gates. I sincerely forgot to check it then went on vacation and the amount of irate and nasty emails is ASTONISHING!!!!

Here's the thing.

1. I realized I really screwed up...

2. I know I should have someone monitor that so it doesn't happen.

3. I realize people want their refunds as soon as possible...

But here's the thing...

1. You're not the only person on the planet (There are 7 Billion of Us)

2. You're not my only customer.

3. Your $6 or $7 purchase, while sincerely (SERIOUSLY) appreciated isn't going to solve every one of your business problems...

SO CHILL OUT and be nice. Please. I'm not naive and realize this isn't a "coom by ya" world or whatever, but damn. The stuff I see in this support desk is mentally toxic and utterly incredible. People spending PARAGRAPHS to describe how awful I am, how awful my products are (even though I have 1% or less Refund Rate), how I'm the devil, etc (all things I've heard btw) is just amazing.

Why don't you spend all that time writing articles or doing something else productive? I'm not defending myself. Legitimately, I screwed up, dropped the ball, and didn't deliver what I promised...and I've apologized to all the people who had the issue personally by writing an email back to them.

But damn...I'm human too (believe it or not...us "evil gurus" are people too just like you who buy things and sometimes aren't happy with them) and we do make mistakes...

Wow...just chill on the nasty emails when you're requesting a refund.

Whew...

Cheers,

Brad

PS- Please don't write here if you're gonna be negative or angry. I realize I'm inviting some nasty remarks but seriously...life is too damn short.

EDIT: Wow...this thread really took off over night. Thanks everyone for posting your opinions, thoughts, and suggestions. I can't reply to all b/c I don't want it to appear like I'm gaming the thread. However I have read everyone's reply and have subscribed to this thread.

Overall, I notice a few different tones. I was merely venting when I wrote this and have learned many lessons from this...It's not my first clam bake and I've been doing this a while. However, I do sincerely try to go above and beyond for people. Those that know me personally or have checked out my products will see this in the review.

I'm implementing systems to make sure this stuff doesn't happen again and all that. I even shot a video and sent it to my list which you can all see below...I'm not taking this lightly


Again...everyone can learn from everyone and I do sincerely appreciate those that took the time to respond from their busy schedules. I appreciate all the perspectives whether they're in agreement or disagreement with me.

Have a wonderful day!
#refund
  • Profile picture of the author Bill_Z
    Some people are just like that, even if you are quick and provide good customer service. And the people who are like that in their refund requests have way bigger problems anyway, so don't worry about it and let it roll off. I actually feel sorry for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author rambo9600
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
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      • Profile picture of the author bobcath
        Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

        You're being an idiot and a jerk by writing that stuff.
        Brad I agree that Rambo9600's response to your OP was a bit over the top, however I think what he meant stands true (it was the way he said it that was wrong). I was very surprised at your response to him! I'm sure that your replies to all of your paying customers will be more measured, even if they did insult you with their rude customer service complaints?
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    I also feel sorry for them, and their wife and kids.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

    I realize I'm inviting some nasty remarks but seriously...life is too damn short to be upset by a missing $5 or $10...no one is that broke that it's going to get them evicted by not getting a refund...and if you are...well maybe you shouldn't be buying a WSO or product with that money in the first place.
    I don't think you're inviting nasty remarks, Brad.

    But I hope you'll excuse the observation that (although I'm not a vendor) if I were selling stuff to customers, I wouldn't want to say in public that customers who are missing $5 or $10 that was sitting in my bank/PayPal account "shouldn't be buying a WSO with that money in the first place". If I were a customer of yours (I don't mean one asking for a refund), that would really put me off buying from you again. It just comes across as disrespectful of other people, their money, and their attitudes to their money. To me, anyway.

    Sorry. I hope that wasn't "nasty".
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      I don't think you're inviting nasty remarks, Brad.

      But I hope you'll excuse the observation that (although I'm not a vendor) if I were selling stuff to customers, I wouldn't want to say in public that customers who are missing $5 or $10 that was sitting in my bank/PayPal account "shouldn't be buying a WSO with that money in the first place". If I were a customer of yours (I don't mean one asking for a refund), that would really put me off buying from you again. It just comes across as disrespectful of other people, their money, and their attitudes to their money. To me, anyway.

      Sorry. I hope that wasn't "nasty".
      I edited that out because I can see your point...not the way I want to be portrayed no matter my own personal opinions.

      Good to hear from you

      Brad
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  • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
    Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

    Hey,

    Here's a call to everyone in our business. When you ask for a refund please do a few things...

    1. Please don't get extremely angry, irate, rude, and nasty in your responses.

    2. Please be patient because we are all people too (customer support staff, marketers, vendors, affiliates, etc).

    Let me give you a bit of a story.

    Today I realized I dropped the ball. I didn't check my support desk for about a week and had some big launches go out the gates. I sincerely forgot to check it then went on vacation and the amount of irate and nasty emails is ASTONISHING!!!!

    Here's the thing.

    1. I realized I really screwed up...

    2. I know I should have someone monitor that so it doesn't happen.

    3. I realize people want their refunds as soon as possible...

    But here's the thing...

    1. You're not the only person on the planet (There are 7 Billion of Us)

    2. You're not my only customer.

    3. Your $6 or $7 purchase, while sincerely (SERIOUSLY) appreciated isn't going to solve every one of your business problems...

    SO CHILL OUT and be nice. Please. I'm not naive and realize this isn't a "coom by ya" world or whatever, but damn. The stuff I see in this support desk is mentally toxic and utterly incredible. People spending PARAGRAPHS to describe how awful I am, how awful my products are (even though I have 1% or less Refund Rate), how I'm the devil, etc (all things I've heard btw) is just amazing.

    Why don't you spend all that time writing articles or doing something else productive? I'm not defending myself. Legitimately, I screwed up, dropped the ball, and didn't deliver what I promised...and I've apologized to all the people who had the issue personally by writing an email back to them.

    But damn...I'm human too (believe it or not...us "evil gurus" are people too just like you who buy things and sometimes aren't happy with them) and we do make mistakes...

    Wow...just chill on the nasty emails when you're requesting a refund.

    Whew...

    Cheers,

    Brad

    PS- Please don't write here if you're gonna be negative or angry. I realize I'm inviting some nasty remarks but seriously...life is too damn short to be upset by a missing $5 or $10...no one is that broke that it's going to get them evicted by not getting a refund...and if you are...well maybe you shouldn't be buying a WSO or product with that money in the first place.
    Does anyone else find it ironic, how he's having a rant over someone raging at him, then he goes and rages over the customer on a public board? Am I, the only one in thinking that?
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
      Originally Posted by simplybeastz View Post

      Does anyone else find it ironic, how he having a rant over someone raging at him, then he goes and rages over the customer on a public board? Am I, the only one in thinking that?
      I'm talking about people being rude...that's it...

      It's unnecessary no matter what...as being rude never gets you anything in life.

      Cheers,

      Brad
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      • Profile picture of the author Lucy Writes
        Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

        I'm talking about people being rude...that's it...

        It's unnecessary no matter what...as being rude never gets you anything in life.

        Cheers,

        Brad
        I totally agree. We're all human beings, and....in my personal belief system....all connected. There's never any excuse to treat someone as less than human, though many people seem to think they can because they're on the internet and not face to face with the other person. People will write all kinds of things to someone online they would NEVER say to them in person!

        But saying those horrible things is just as bad if the words are written as if they were said in person. Treat others as you would want to be treated. And if someone isn't treating you as you would want to be treated or think you should be treated (and I'm talking about the people who sent the nasty emails here), then turn the other cheek. This is true whether it's over $7 or $7,000,000....you can take a step back, remember you're dealing with a fellow human, and act accordingly, which means act like a human being yourself. This doesn't mean allow someone to walk all over you. You can still stand up for your rights and your interests, but do it in a kind, life-affirming, positive way.

        Would the way you're acting make your grandmother proud? That's always something I ask myself before I do or say anything if I'm not absolutely certain it's the right thing.
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      • Profile picture of the author simplybeastz
        Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

        I'm talking about people being rude...that's it...

        It's unnecessary no matter what...as being rude never gets you anything in life.

        Cheers,

        Brad
        I wasn't being rude, simply making a comment on your style of language, taking feedback, is how I and you learn.

        Thanks
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        • Profile picture of the author R Hagel
          Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

          I'm talking about people being rude...that's it...
          It's unnecessary no matter what...as being rude never gets you anything in life.

          Agreed.

          But I guess you can see why people sometimes blast off rude messages to you. It's pretty easy easy to get caught up in the moment, ya know? Presumably like you did here:

          Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

          You're being an idiot and a jerk by writing that stuff.

          Just pointing out that ordinarily calm and rational people can suddenly turn rude depending on their perceptions of a situation. You felt attacked -- so you shot off a nasty message back. And likewise your customers felt scammed, so they shot some nasty messages at you.

          I'm not excusing anyone for rudeness, but just trying to show why it sometimes happens.

          Becky
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Brad, 3 Words: Outsource Customer Service.

    My customer service bill is only 5 to 15 bucks a week and he takes care of virtually all customer service problems.

    And if he disappears on me for some reason, I'm quick to find out because I get an email when he's working. If I don't get an email, I know something may be up and I double check.

    This prevents problems like what you faced.

    I know - we all make mistakes, but where you are at in your business, you can't afford to make these mistakes.

    Please take my advice and hire someone to help you out.

    Also, get a help desk and get support out of your inbox. It'll cut down on complaints and problems, remove lost email problems, and is more efficient (read: cheaper and better quality) for customer service.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Brad, 3 Words: Outsource Customer Service.

      My customer service bill is only 5 to 15 bucks a week and he takes care of virtually all customer service problems.

      And if he disappears on me for some reason, I'm quick to find out because I get an email when he's working. If I don't get an email, I know something may be up and I double check.

      This prevents problems like what you faced.

      I know - we all make mistakes, but where you are at in your business, you can't afford to make these mistakes.

      Please take my advice and hire someone to help you out.

      Also, get a help desk and get support out of your inbox. It'll cut down on complaints and problems, remove lost email problems, and is more efficient (read: cheaper and better quality) for customer service.

      Rob
      Wow...you're totally right and I'm seriously gonna do that from now on. Add it to my VA's task list. True lesson in why outsourcing helps.

      Cheers and Thanks for taking it the right way.

      Brad
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    • Profile picture of the author cookie58
      Originally Posted by ccmusicman View Post

      Brad, 3 Words: Outsource Customer Service.

      My customer service bill is only 5 to 15 bucks a week and he takes care of virtually all customer service problems.

      And if he disappears on me for some reason, I'm quick to find out because I get an email when he's working. If I don't get an email, I know something may be up and I double check.

      This prevents problems like what you faced.

      I know - we all make mistakes, but where you are at in your business, you can't afford to make these mistakes.

      Please take my advice and hire someone to help you out.

      Also, get a help desk and get support out of your inbox. It'll cut down on complaints and problems, remove lost email problems, and is more efficient (read: cheaper and better quality) for customer service.

      Rob
      Great Advice Rob , Spot On .
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  • Profile picture of the author WilliamBlah
    Here a little addition I would like to make:

    "1. Please don't get extremely angry, irate, rude, and nasty.."... EVER!

    Whether you experience terrible service in a café, or your train is late and the staff are unhelpful, or maybe someone kicked a football through your window...

    None of being "angry, irate, rude, and nasty" will do ANYTHING to improve your situation.

    Here's the thing:

    You've got a problem right? Maybe sh!# happened and things didn't go to plan, or maybe someone was just being a right numpty.

    This makes you angry.

    Now you have TWO problems: the issue at hand, and your mood (and possibly a third problem of having to deal with anything you did while you were in that mood!)

    Why do it to yourself? That's right - why do you do it to yourself! No one else can make you angry but you.

    Regards
    Will
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

    the amount of irate and nasty emails is ASTONISHING!!!!
    Well, when you think about it, we actively try to whip our customers into an irrational frenzy of emotion before they buy.

    We don't say stuff like "This report will teach you how to sell scrapbooks to old people."

    Who buys that crap? No, that won't do at all.

    "This no-holds-barred field report will open up a STARVING CAPTIVE MARKET that will GIVE YOU what you sell them, BEG YOU to take their money, and SHOWCASE YOUR WORK TO EVERYONE THEY KNOW."

    Woohoo! Here's my seven dollars!

    WTF, get people in nursing homes to give me their photos and tell me stories about them so I can paste them in a book and write crap with glitter pens? This sucks! I'd have to be around old people, and they smell!

    The image in your prospect's mind was more like walking into a local insurance company with the light of heavenly grace upon them, while all the employees stared in rapt adoration and the owner came running over in slow motion to the theme from Love Story, brandishing a stack of website designs in one hand and a big fat cheque in the other. "Please hurry," he'd exclaim breathlessly. "I want to show this to everyone at the Chamber of Commerce meeting next week!"

    Instead, he's now imagining endless hours of sitting next to some ninety year old man with an oxygen tank who farts a lot, listening to stupid boring stories about his grandsons Timmy and Jimmy, and the time Timmy was down at the playground - or was that Jimmy? Why, you'd swear they were twins, but Jimmy was two years older and Timmy was big for his age. So anyway, Jimmy was at the playground, and along came the ice cream truck... in those days, we had real ice cream trucks with bells, not some Indian gentleman in a station wagon with a digital beepy thing like today... and they used to have these ice cream bars, part chocolate and part vanilla, shaped like Mickey Mouse... only the nose was a gumball! Why, you can't put gumballs in a freezer - they get all brittle, and you can't really chew the gum at all, because it goes to powder. So what was I saying? Oh, yes, when Jimmy was getting his driver's licence at the DMV one day... actually, it was Timmy... did I tell you about the time Jimmy's math teacher thought Timmy was Jimmy? Or was that Timmy's math teacher? No, wait, it was the history teacher... mind you, we taught real history back then, not like this garbage today...


    So, uh, yeah. I kind of get it when people send me the nasty emails.
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    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Joseph
    Hi Brad,

    Thanks for taking public responsibility for your actions. It takes strong will, and humility to do so. And I get it, we're all imperfect human's. From offering products online myself, I have realized a few things that may help you:

    1) The client/ customer is always right. We've got to give them the benefit of the doubt, WITHOUT taking it personal. Easier said then done in some instances.

    2) We've got to be mindful of HOW they are feeling. In a moment of a refund they are emotionally charged, which isn't necessarily in direct relation to us. Perhaps they've had a bad day at work; the kid's spilled juice on their rug; they've had a negative experience in the past and attach that feeling of lack to their purchase; the program isn't quite what they thought, or it really just isn't the best timing for their pocket book at this time.

    3) This one is for you: HIRE a talented and efficient outsoucer to handle your customer support. Give them a list of Q & A's, and ask them to report to you only if completely necessary.

    This way your CLIENTS are HAPPY. And YOU are HAPPY.

    It's a win-win!
    Signature

    Jon

    "Success comes when people act together; failure tends to happen alone." -- Deepak Chopra

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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
      Originally Posted by Jonathan Joseph View Post

      Hi Brad,

      Thanks for taking public responsibility for your actions. It takes strong will, and humility to do so. And I get it, we're all imperfect human's. From offering products online myself, I have realized a few things that may help you:

      1) The client/ customer is always right. We've got to give them the benefit of the doubt, WITHOUT taking it personal. Easier said then done in some instances.

      2) We've got to be mindful of HOW they are feeling. In a moment of a refund they are emotionally charged, which isn't necessarily in direct relation to us. Perhaps they've had a bad day at work; the kid's spilled juice on their rug; they've had a negative experience in the past and attach that feeling of lack to their purchase; the program isn't quite what they thought, or it really just isn't the best timing for their pocket book at this time.

      3) This one is for you: HIRE a talented and efficient outsoucer to handle your customer support. Give them a list of Q & A's, and ask them to report to you only if completely necessary.

      This way your CLIENTS are HAPPY. And YOU are HAPPY.

      It's a win-win!
      Always good things to remember...

      The helpdesk person is a great idea that I'm just not using (I have a VA who should be logging in)

      Cheers,

      Brad
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by Jonathan Joseph View Post

      1) The client/ customer is always right.
      This phrase is usually spouted by people who either A) have never dealt with customers, or B) have very little experience with actual customers, or C) believe in the Easter Bunny.

      Here's the truth...customers can fall anywhere on the spectrum from 'absoultely right' to 'horribly wrong'.

      Anyone who believes "The client/ customer is always right" needs to get out into the sunshine more often.

      If you've been in business long enough you know there is an entire class of customers that will waste your time and money faster than you thought possible and need to be fired asap. If you haven't, you probably still believe that fairy tale.

      Should you generally be nice to your customers? Absolutely!

      Are your customers always right? Occasionaly, they are. But always? Not in the real world.

      ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author AC21DJ
    Brad,

    I never have been able to figure out why people feel they own you for 7 dollars. That part is amazing to me. They feel like any amount of money exchanged gives them the right to talk to you anyway they like.

    With that being said. I have recently been on the other side of this and have been disappointed with the customer service that I have received. My biggest problem was that they did not take responsibility for their lack of action. Just email me and let me know whats going on, don't ignore me for a few days and then give me a bunch of lame excuses. The person I paid made the deadline not me so.... why allow me to ask you why you are late. Because of this I don't feel I will use them anymore. It's as simple as that. I let them know respectfully but to the point.

    Taking responsibility for your actions is the only way to go. Everyone makes mistakes and people should remember that before they lite you up in emails. I hope people will learn someday to admit when they are wrong and try to make things right like you did. All involved on both sides of this should remember that "It should not be personal." If you don't like the service then, move on and find someone different. You do not have the right to verbally abuse anyone over any amount of money. You can be direct and to the point without getting personal.

    Aaron
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  • Profile picture of the author charlesburke
    I started selling online back in 2000 and my first big shock was the frantic, hysterical emails. Some were refund demands, but others were simply "I didn't get my download".

    I was living in Japan at the time, and right off the bat, my third customer, a medical professional, sent me four rapidly escalating, hysterical cries for service. Since it was well after midnight, I was asleep. Got up at six and found those four viperous emails threatening lawsuits and bodily harm. Of course, my first reaction was to fire right back, but then I stopped, thought about the customer (probably new to the Internet, new to buying online, afraid he's being scammed, etc) and decided to take the biggest, most unexpected action I could.

    Back then, the phone number was still included with the orders, so I called him. And he was both shocked and pleased - "Oh! You're the author? Wow." That customer calmed right down, and now, twelve years later, he's still on my subscriber list and still a customer. He's a good guy, but he was just out of his depth at that moment.

    When people act mean they're just scared. That's all. Scared people act more extreme than un-scared people do.

    Over the years I've had some really inventive refund demands, but my favorite remains: "Give me a refund. Then eat sh** and die."

    Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
    Charles
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
      Originally Posted by charlesburke View Post

      I started selling online back in 2000 and my first big shock was the frantic, hysterical emails. Some were refund demands, but others were simply "I didn't get my download".

      I was living in Japan at the time, and right off the bat, my third customer, a medical professional, sent me four rapidly escalating, hysterical cries for service. Since it was well after midnight, I was asleep. Got up at six and found those four viperous emails threatening lawsuits and bodily harm. Of course, my first reaction was to fire right back, but then I stopped, thought about the customer (probably new to the Internet, new to buying online, afraid he's being scammed, etc) and decided to take the biggest, most unexpected action I could.

      Back then, the phone number was still included with the orders, so I called him. And he was both shocked and pleased - "Oh! You're the author? Wow." That customer calmed right down, and now, twelve years later, he's still on my subscriber list and still a customer. He's a good guy, but he was just out of his depth at that moment.

      When people act mean they're just scared. That's all. Scared people act more extreme than un-scared people do.

      Over the years I've had some really inventive refund demands, but my favorite remains: "Give me a refund. Then eat sh** and die."

      Cheers from warm and smiling Thailand,
      Charles
      See...my natural instinct is when someone is nasty and just says 'refund then die" is to deny their refund and see if they pursue it. No reason to even talk to people like that if they threaten harm. Let them report me to Paypal and I'll just submit their nasty responses and win due to them threatening me.

      Win morally in my book for standing up to jerks and avoid the hassle.

      However, you're right about being scared. I'm not sure why people are so scared about shopping online thoug these days because tons of people buy tons of stuff online and it's amazing.

      Oh well...

      Cheers,

      Brad
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    • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
      Originally Posted by charlesburke View Post

      Back then, the phone number was still included with the orders, so I called him. And he was both shocked and pleased - "Oh! You're the author? Wow." That customer calmed right down, and now, twelve years later, he's still on my subscriber list and still a customer. He's a good guy, but he was just out of his depth at that moment.
      ^^^ Excellent response.

      Hi Brad

      I am not sure about the wisdom of you starting this thread, but that is a completely different matter.

      You made a mistake, you admitted it, you apologised for it and you are doing your best to put it right. Good for you - you can do no more.

      Will
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  • Profile picture of the author paul_1
    I like -- love this thread... It's like reading a comic strip...
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    • Profile picture of the author Thrasher66099
      Brad,

      I understand where you're coming from, but I think you may have come at this from the wrong way. In your post you are talking about people complaining over late refunds. The problem is that most will perceive your original post as complaining in itself. In the future have you thought about maybe posting this kind of thread as a helpful tips type of response as opposed to how this was setup? Example - The do's and don'ts of dealing with refunds.

      Then you can go on to explain that if you are civil with a person it may not help you, but it can never hurt. Beyond that, being disrespectful or outright rude will never help you no matter what the situation.

      Also I might suggest staying away from things like accusing them. Instead try to be a bit more passive and state that if you feel like doing x negative response instead you might want to try y positive response and it's possible that you could increase your relations with the business and improving the chances that they will want to help you.

      Then you're killing 3 birds with one stone. You are venting to us (which you were trying to do and that's completely fine because we all need to vent); You are going to get helpful responses from those of us who have also dealt with the same situation; and finally you are going to build even more credibility in the community as it shows that you actually want to increase business to customer relations.
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    I think you'll be ok Brad

    On this forum and others, no matter HOW much quality you put into your product, you're going to have refunds. And the craziest refunds too. No matter how many hundreds of people rave about how great your product is, you'll have people that just take advantage of your guarantee day in and day out. with requests like "please refund" or "this wasnt for me" etc etc. It's especially nice when it happens about 5 minutes after you sell 80 pages worth of pdfs and 40 mintues of video. Oh well. When I first starting selling here, it used to really agrivate the crap out of me. but i guess i'm over it.
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    • Profile picture of the author DianaHeuser
      Originally Posted by mattjay View Post

      I think you'll be ok Brad

      On this forum and others, no matter HOW much quality you put into your product, you're going to have refunds. And the craziest refunds too. No matter how many hundreds of people rave about how great your product is, you'll have people that just take advantage of your guarantee day in and day out. with requests like "please refund" or "this wasnt for me" etc etc. It's especially nice when it happens about 5 minutes after you sell 80 pages worth of pdfs and 40 mintues of video. Oh well. When I first starting selling here, it used to really agrivate the crap out of me. but i guess i'm over it.
      That is so true. I had a refund request from someone who said they thought my product was how to create videos. I am going "What?". No-where did my sales copy even mention the word 'video'.

      Gave them the refund, made a note of their email and let it go

      Di
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  • Profile picture of the author mattjay
    Yes, and WSOpro has a nice blacklisting feature so you don't have to deal with them again. Very handy
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon Ashari
    Yep. No communication for a week, can see why the customer is mad.

    Guess this is a lesson learned for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Genycis
    Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

    Hey,

    Here's a call to everyone in our business. When you ask for a refund please do a few things...

    1. Please don't get extremely angry, irate, rude, and nasty in your responses.

    2. Please be patient because we are all people too (customer support staff, marketers, vendors, affiliates, etc).

    Let me give you a bit of a story.

    Today I realized I dropped the ball. I didn't check my support desk for about a week and had some big launches go out the gates. I sincerely forgot to check it then went on vacation and the amount of irate and nasty emails is ASTONISHING!!!!

    Here's the thing.

    1. I realized I really screwed up...

    2. I know I should have someone monitor that so it doesn't happen.

    3. I realize people want their refunds as soon as possible...

    But here's the thing...

    1. You're not the only person on the planet (There are 7 Billion of Us)

    2. You're not my only customer.

    3. Your $6 or $7 purchase, while sincerely (SERIOUSLY) appreciated isn't going to solve every one of your business problems...

    SO CHILL OUT and be nice. Please. I'm not naive and realize this isn't a "coom by ya" world or whatever, but damn. The stuff I see in this support desk is mentally toxic and utterly incredible. People spending PARAGRAPHS to describe how awful I am, how awful my products are (even though I have 1% or less Refund Rate), how I'm the devil, etc (all things I've heard btw) is just amazing.

    Why don't you spend all that time writing articles or doing something else productive? I'm not defending myself. Legitimately, I screwed up, dropped the ball, and didn't deliver what I promised...and I've apologized to all the people who had the issue personally by writing an email back to them.

    But damn...I'm human too (believe it or not...us "evil gurus" are people too just like you who buy things and sometimes aren't happy with them) and we do make mistakes...

    Wow...just chill on the nasty emails when you're requesting a refund.

    Whew...

    Cheers,

    Brad

    PS- Please don't write here if you're gonna be negative or angry. I realize I'm inviting some nasty remarks but seriously...life is too damn short.
    I agree with ccmusicman on outsourcing if you don't want to deal with these types of issues.

    That said, yes, we are all human, and yes, we all have certain issues come up. But, to make it in any business that deals with selling or helping CUSTOMERS, you HAVE to be as best as possible with customer service as you can. Like it or not, that's how it goes. I'm not saying you have to hand your @$$ to them and let them kick it around if they so choose. But, you HAVE TO (this is very important) give them quality customer service... it can make or break you.

    I bolded and especially reddened parts of your post that I thought were a bit funny to me (and if you are selling WSOs in here, may turn off people from buying from you).

    The "your not the only person on the planet" comment, while a true statement, isn't one that needs to be spoken (gives the impression of "guess what, I got other more important people to help, you're not the only one buddy!! = sounding rude even though I know that's not your intent).

    The "went on vacation" one won't float either. Though a very honest mistake, people won't want to see that because it damages rep. It's like "okay, he couldn't wait to go on vacation, so to hell with everyone's orders or mine. Guess he couldn't wait!". Easily solved with an Away autoresponder message and would've probably calmed down some of the rioters at the gates with torches waiting to bash your face in!

    The reddened one (my personal favorite), "your not my only customer"... this statement again, gives the impression of being rude, even though you're not trying to. It sounds like "if you don't want to wait, there's the damn door". These are phrases that spew aggression to those that read it, especially if you were selling WSOs or something else in here and they read this.

    I'm no specialist in C/S, but I've worked in Financial Services with former Alltel for a few years, and though some of those customers were the most irate, a lot of them (when I talked them down with apologies and kindness) actually APOLOGIZED TO ME and just wanted me to understand their problem. I helped and when I couldn't, I helped by offering them to someone else that could.

    Again, not at all trying to bash your customer service skills at all as I'm sure you do a bang up job. BUT, putting a post like that with those keyphrases bolded won't gain you any brownie points with the customers you have, or the potential ones you could have.

    Never make the customer feel less valuable by stating you're not the only one... that's obvious, and while customers know this, they won't want it smacked in their face, especially if they were waiting on something that wasn't delivered. Great Customer Service goes a long way, ESPECIALLY when you help those that are bothered or upset with you.

    I had a person buy an instrumental from me in the past (back when I didn't have automatic download). They waited for two days and were a bit upset with me. I replied to them and apologized to them, explained some of the issues on my end, and even asked them if there was something I could do. He was blown away by how I handled things that the next week, he bought some more! Telling you, CUSTOMER SERVICE is key, and for anyone that reads this, if you don't like dealing with customers (you're not always going to get happy joyful ones all the time), then perhaps you should quit IM now and go build a boat.

    Just my thoughts on the matter. Sorry if I offend you in any way. I was actually reading your original post as a customer even though I didn't buy from you, and half the time, that's part of great service is simply understanding where the customer is coming from and apologizing for it, and trying to make it right. Customer service can be the key between word of mouth making you greater, or horrible word of mouth ruining a business quick and fast! Okay, I'm done now, sorry for the long ramble. Lol!
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    -- Posting my experiences and so forth with my own blog.
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  • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
    To those who slam the OP, that's really unnecessary - I'm pretty sure he Gets It. He Knows that he is the one who F*CKED UP, and He Owns That.

    We're all human, and unfortunately, there's always a nasty customer who forgets that. Anyone who's ever worked retail knows that, that doesn't change when you have your own business (except in the latter, they are YOUR customers and not someone else's). Some people really do need to calm the balls down.

    Meanwhile, I think we've also established to never underestimate the power of outsourcing. And perhaps a parting gift (something free they get for trying you out)?
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    • Profile picture of the author Thrasher66099
      Originally Posted by Emily Meeks View Post

      To those who slam the OP, that's really unnecessary - I'm pretty sure he Gets It. He Knows that he is the one who F*CKED UP, and He Owns That.

      We're all human, and unfortunately, there's always a nasty customer who forgets that. Anyone who's ever worked retail knows that, that doesn't change when you have your own business (except in the latter, they are YOUR customers and not someone else's). Some people really do need to calm the balls down.

      Meanwhile, I think we've also established to never underestimate the power of outsourcing. And perhaps a parting gift (something free they get for trying you out)?
      I hope you didn't see my response as a "slam." It certainly was not intended to be. I was just trying to propose another option that may or may not have given him better results.
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  • Profile picture of the author Genycis
    You are indeed correct with that one Emily in that there are always irate customers, and yeah, not every single customer will get what they want as that is also the harsh reality of things.

    I definitely wasn't slamming or trying to slam the OP on things as I know it was a mistake that anyone can commit. I just think the actual post itself gave a bit of a wrong impression as well. But you're right, there is always a nasty customer out there that would test the waters full throttle.

    And LOL!! at calm the balls down!
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  • Profile picture of the author dsouravs
    Hellboy hahahh
    Gr8 post
    Thnx
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  • Profile picture of the author Gaz Cooper
    I get where Brad is coming from and OK admittingly leaving Support unattended for a week is a NO NO, but I have great support and even then, I will get a irate tickets right off the bat, so I know what Brad is talking about and its does seem that people are very impatient and rude.

    Give people time to take care of you and have just a little bit of patience because even those of us that have excellent support sometimes have things go wrong and 24 hours is a very acceptable time to respond to you.

    Kickin it on Amazon

    Gaz Cooper
    Amz Training Academy
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  • Profile picture of the author Jarrett
    Banned
    Hey Brad,

    Go into a Mcdonalds. Sit down for a little bit and watch the circus.. People will just about pull out a knife and stab somebody because they were 3 minutes late with their chicken mcnuggets.

    Nobody puts up with more BS than the cashiers at mcdonalds. They deal with some of the rudest, most impatient people in the world. People start up a **** storm over what? a $2 Big Mac?

    really? Some Mcdonald's customers DEMAND to be waited on hand and foot.. and treat the people that work there like SLAVES.. why? cuz they spent $10? seriously?

    Yet, go into a restaurant where people pay $100 a plate.. and customers will gladly sit and wait 40 minutes for their food.. and enjoy the ambience..

    What changed? The people.

    So let me ask you this.

    Who are your people?

    When you sell $7 / $9 reports on Warrior forum.. what kind of person are you attracting?

    At $7 a plate.. the rich crowd wouldn't be caught DEAD in that establishment.. which means you are dealing with the EXACT same person who are ready to punch you in the face at Mcdonalds because you shorted them a few fries. THAT'S YOUR CUSTOMER.

    When you sell $7, $9, $12 wso's.. you are going to be dealing with alot of desperate, irrational, and broke peoples who can just barely afford it to begin with.

    THEY are the ones who will FLOCK at an opportunity to get rich quick on $7.

    And to them, $7 is ALOT of money. So if they feel shorted in any way, they are going to go out kicking and screaming and burn the place down on the way out lol.

    So is it any surprise why you're dealing with alot of CRAZY people?

    People who give the LEAST expect the MOST.

    Think about that for a second. it's 100% truth.

    The second I started selling higher ticket stuff I NEVER looked back. And I encourage you to really start thinking about it.

    Sure, a quick fix would be to outsource your customer support or practice meditation and reaching your place of zen before interacting with customers at all. lol.

    But all of these are just symptoms. Why not treat the real problem? your customer

    Are High Ticket Products Really That Much Better?

    Well, let me put it like this. I recently did a webinar where we sold a $2,000 software. we sold a ton of units..

    And, do you know how many customer support emails we got?

    NONE.

    ZERO.

    What the heck? If I sell a WSO for $9, I get 500 emails the next day..

    And you would think that these guys would email me MORE because they shelled out alot more money.. so you'd think they'd want me to hold their hand or answer 1,000 questions.

    Nope. not true.

    Why? because people who have $2k to spend on a piece of software, they got money. They're business men. They are too busy making money and running a business. And not going to sit around sending out a bunch of emails.

    See the difference?

    Seriously bro. I HIGHLY encourage you to think about it. With high ticket stuff there is MORE money, Less headache, and less a-holes because you weed out alot of them lol.

    Another perfect example is my coaching program. My coaching program wasn't cheap to begin with. It cost a few thousand dollars.. And recently, I DOUBLED the rates.

    And it was the best decision I've ever made.

    Because now it attracts a whole different league of people. Everybody in my coaching program are all super successful guys that I really enjoy working with. They value my time.. and it's just all around a better experience.

    Anyways. just some food for thought
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    • Profile picture of the author Anton Nadilo
      Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post

      Hey Brad, here's something else to think about...

      Go into a Mcdonalds. Sit down for a little bit and watch the CHAOS that is sure to follow.. People will pull out a knife and cut someone over being late with their chicken mcnuggets.

      It's UNREAL at how much crap people that work at Mcdonalds have to put up with.

      They deal with some of the rudest most impatient people in the world.. All over what? a $2 big mac?

      Yet, go into a restaurant where people pay $100 a plate.. and people will gladly sit and wait 40 minutes for their food.. and enjoy the ambience..

      What changed? The people.

      So let me ask you this.

      When you sell $7 / $9 reports on Warrior forum.. what kind of person are you attracting? What kind of people are you dealing with?

      Let me spell it out for you. the EXACT same people who are ready to punch someone in the face at Mcdonalds over shorting them on fries. lol. That's your primary audience.

      You are going to be dealing with alot of desperate, irrational, broke people who can just barely afford your wso.

      THEY are the ones that are typically going to FLOCK at an opportunity to get rich quick and only having to shell out $7.

      And to them, $7 is ALOT of money. So if they feel shorted in any way, they are going to go out kicking and screaming and burn the place down on the way out lol.

      So is it any surprise why you're dealing with alot of CRAZY people?

      People who give the LEAST expect the MOST.

      Think about that for a second. it's 100% truth.

      The second I started selling higher ticket stuff I NEVER looked back.

      I did a webinar recently where we SOLD out $2,000 software like crazy...

      Do you know how many customer support emails we got?

      NONE.

      ZERO.

      Why? because people who have $2k to spend on a piece of software, they got money. They're business men. They are too busy making money and running a business. And not going to sit around sending out a bunch of emails.

      See the difference?
      Nice work Jarrett...you summed up my sentiments exactly!! Pay peanuts you get to work with monkeys!!

      I don't want to sound rude in any way to Brad and totally appreciate his comments and they are all valid. But here is the thing....he/we/us/IM created this "refund beast" - we are to blame NOT the refunders.

      SOLUTION: DON'T OFFER GUARANTEES ON PRODUCTS LESS THAN $10 BUCKS!!

      Now there is a radical thought. Come on guys....lose a few bucks (will you really miss that $500 with all the millions you are making LOL) and save yourself the stress of all this refund BS. It is an info product after all...!!

      I wonder if this would help clean up all the crappy products and PLR rehashed "S**T on here and send a few Warriors back to day jobs at McDonalds.

      Just my rant for the day......

      Ahhh.....that feels better

      Night night John Boy....
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  • Profile picture of the author Daystar11
    I think the best suggestion in this thread is the one about outsourcing support. Excellent idea. This is the second issue this week I've heard about, a too busy marketer who has dropped the ball (the other one, a personal friend of mine). And basically, what I said to him is the same as what I will say here- how you look, what you say, how you say it, and how promptly you respond, are critically important to your success. You are running a business, and you must be professional at all times. You may be too busy but that is no excuse. Delegating, getting help, is the way to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jarrett
    Banned
    hahahah. the quote of the day

    "Pay peanuts you get to work with monkeys!"

    bingo. you got it
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  • Profile picture of the author StunningWarrior
    Originally Posted by Brad Spencer View Post

    Hey,

    Here's a call to everyone in our business.

    .snip.

    Let me give you a bit of a story.

    Today I realized I dropped the ball. I didn't check my support desk for about a week and had some big launches go out the gates. I sincerely forgot to check it then went on vacation and the amount of irate and nasty emails is ASTONISHING!!!!


    Here's the thing.

    1. I realized I really screwed up...

    2. I know I should have someone monitor that so it doesn't happen.

    3. I realize people want their refunds as soon as possible...

    .snip.

    Cheers,

    Brad

    PS- Please don't write here if you're gonna be negative or angry. I realize I'm inviting some nasty remarks but seriously...life is too damn short.
    Very brave of you to fess up like this.

    It's clear you've accepted responsibility, but what I don't see is anything to prevent this happening again. What's your plan here?

    I'd suggest you go away and write a very detailed launch plan template that you use in future (hey, you could even make a WSO out of it). Stick the current launch template on the wall in front of you and organize your life around it.

    If you drop the ball again like this, people are not going to be so forgiving. You'll get to be known as the guy who goes AWOL at launch time and it will impact your sales for years to come.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lazylord
    Well, I've bought tens of stuff at WF and elsewhere but have never requested for a refund even when the product fell well short of expectations. The higher priced stuff like Market Samurai, Long Tail Pro Scrapebox etc have all been very good investments.

    It's only the $7-15 stuff that occasionally turns out bad. But then I always turn to the last page a few days after the celebrations are over to know the 'real' reviews and feedback. This way I don't get cheated that easily
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  • Profile picture of the author gvsridhar171
    I bought a free software from a warrior here but had to pay $15 a month to an autoresponder. The product promises $1.50 per lead that is given. The lead being an email id and name. The product also promises one elite membership. It's over 10 days now. I have not received the elite membership status. I added 2 email ids to see if I get $1.50 per lead but I have no clue about it. I have sent 4 polite PMs in the last 10 days, 3 mails addressed to the Seller from my Gmail account and 2 mails to his support team. Still I have not received any response. Next month, I will have to pay another $15 to the autoresponder since i have taken the monthly payment plan. In the next 20 days if I don't earn $30, I will be paying from my pocket.

    Remember, I have only sent polite reminders to the seller because, his product is purchased by over 1300 + warriors recently so I know he must be very busy.

    As a customer, do you expect me to be patient and be understanding that we are all human beings and we make mistakes and we should forgive these mistakes ?

    I have already come public now and am expressing about my unhappiness with the way I have been treated after being a customer. I have not been rude to him at all. Yet no response.

    So what do you advice I should do ? I have put myself in "Sellers Shoes" and have understood your point of view. Can you put yourself in "Customer's shoes" and give me a proper advice what I should do now ?
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  • Profile picture of the author tunity
    I once received a nasty email from a customer who requested refund immediately after making a purchase. His reason for refund was that "he does not like the product". Of all the 70 sales i made, it was 1 of 4 refunds that was requested.

    To be honest, the nasty email disturbed me for a very long time. And guess what i did, I refunded him 24hrs later.

    Now, I have grown thick skin for nasty emails. And yes, i did create a process where when a customer request refund, they automatically get an email that says their refund is being processed and would take 24-48 hrs.

    Even though i sell my products locally online...this has reduced the nasty emails i get.

    I noticed that the average customer will give enough time that your website/email states for refund request.

    If you implement that Brad Spencer...that would help.

    And yes, you've learnt your lessons. Don't take it personal....its business....
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    • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
      you can't take irate and nasty customers' remarks personally, nor should you have to put up with rudeness, ever.

      You simply refund them and then be done with it. If they are that bad, you just don't do business with them ever again.

      No amount of money is worth being treated like dirt, imho.


      Brad, in your case, you made a mistake, and you were exposed to the "hater" mentality of many people online who think they can act any way they want to because they are hiding behind a computer. It's not anything unusual but that doesn't make it acceptable, either.

      With a help desk in place and a clear message that states when you are likely to respond to messages (ie: with 24-48 hours) will do a lot for preventing this from happening to you again.


      Onwards, and upwards, Brad!
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  • Profile picture of the author Emily Meeks
    For what it's worth, in a sort of backhanded way I think this thread needed to be here.. there's so much emphasis on getting started in IM to begin with, but VERY little on customer support. Sooooooo this is, in a sense, a lesson for everybody. Makes you think:

    1.) You might be on vacay, but your customers aren't
    2.) Take responsibility for your actions, still try to make sure your customers think you're worth their time
    3.) You're just one person, you NEED to outsource especially if you have a large customer base
    4.) Jarrett's post ('nuff said)
    5.) People are dicks

    Always a silver lining...
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  • Profile picture of the author Dominican
    People do not like to wait. We live in an impatient world. People want their internet to be top notch in speed. We have fast food, so as to get the food ASAP.

    Keep in mind that people who use the internet more exclusively, will be absolutely impatient. The internet has introduced the idea of READILY available resources. We google something, we get the answer right away.

    We Facebook message someone, the message is sent right away.

    There are so many examples of INSTANTS, that people become utterly used to, and expect...in the online world.

    I see that as your biggest issue here, as the demand was not even for the refund as much as it was for the instant service. The complaint couldn't have truly come from the small payment, but from what I see as being a huge intolerance and lack of patience, for that specific niche, due to the location of the business, and the type of buyers.
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  • Profile picture of the author sunray
    I think offering a refund for a digital product is a little absurd anyway. The guarantee should come by some other way, like giving half or one third of the product for free and then charging for the rest. With refunds it's always the risk that humbugs get it for free while honest people must pay. Not fair.
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  • Profile picture of the author dvduval
    It is generally my policy that if someone is respectful they are going to get a refund assuming we are not able to solve the problem (which is pretty rare). Even if they want a refund still, we have ways to create a win-win situation.

    But if they are disrespectful the first thing they are going to need to do is file a dispute in paypal. I want paypal to have a record of their behavior in case this is not the first time this has happened. I then cut and paste what they said to me in the paypal dispute so everything is in the open with paypal. They may very well get their refund, but it takes longer for them when they could have been nice to start.
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    • Profile picture of the author Brad Spencer
      Originally Posted by dvduval View Post

      It is generally my policy that if someone is respectful they are going to get a refund assuming we are not able to solve the problem (which is pretty rare). Even if they want a refund still, we have ways to create a win-win situation.

      But if they are disrespectful the first thing they are going to need to do is file a dispute in paypal. I want paypal to have a record of their behavior in case this is not the first time this has happened. I then cut and paste what they said to me in the paypal dispute so everything is in the open with paypal. They may very well get their refund, but it takes longer for them when they could have been nice to start.
      Exactly...that's my point...you're very noble in fighting the entitlement culture that is getting pervasive in society.

      Cheers,

      Brad
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    • Profile picture of the author rambo9600
      [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author BurtL
    I guess the the bigger question is, did you learn from your mistake? Did you implement plans to prevent this in the future. I hope the answer is yes.
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  • Profile picture of the author butters
    This is how I see it from someone who has never purchased from you.

    You made a mistake
    It was a mistake which would annoy me

    That being said, you first publicly admited your mistake, secondly you made a youtube video saying you messed up and thirdly you implemented things which would stop that mistake from happening.

    Honestly a marketer who is willing to hold up his hands, say I f***ed up and then implement new things to stop it happening, all over a $7 product, simply, I'd buy from you. You aint out there to take my cash, if I genuinely don't like your product your be fine with a refund, I don't own you for 7 bucks, I don't own you for 7k bucks, your get my respect .
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  • Profile picture of the author surferchris
    We are all here to make money. Respect and understanding is necessary if you really want to get anywhere in life. Being a downer and straight-up rude will just bite you in the ass. Keep it real guys! cheers
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  • Profile picture of the author sovereignn
    THIS is exactly how I feel right now. Great post
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  • Profile picture of the author Fallen_Angel
    I try and think from other persons perspective.
    They try your product are dissatisfied and they want a refund. You are away, no response. So they start thinking you are a scammer and ripped them off, whether its a dollar or 100$ people hate the feeling of being ripped off. That emotion is very powerful and in heat of it they write a nasty message.

    Point is they may not be rude normally, but in heat of it they are.
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