How Many peoples will stick with membership sites?

by Jassim
32 replies
Hi guys, Just thinking of membership sites in IM niche. How many members will stay for ever (average) & how many will just run away in 1 or 2 months.

This may be depends on content in the members area, But i am just looking for an average figure regardless of any niche.
#membership #peoples #sites #stick
  • Profile picture of the author artwebster
    From the number of people setting up such sites, I would imagine that the average stickability of a member will be declining rapidly - maybe just long enough to get any freebies.

    If you create a valuable site with valuable information and added value in continuing the monthly or anual fee, in an ideal world, you should have no attrition at all apart from death and disasters.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
      I agree

      Stickability is very difficult at the moment, I've seen a lot of changes in the 3 1/2 years since I set up my very first one, not all for the good.

      Kim

      Originally Posted by artwebster View Post

      From the number of people setting up such sites, I would imagine that the average stickability of a member will be declining rapidly - maybe just long enough to get any freebies.

      If you create a valuable site with valuable information and added value in continuing the monthly or anual fee, in an ideal world, you should have no attrition at all apart from death and disasters.
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  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    Here is a GOLDEN tip to create incredible stickability for a membership site.
    Provide INCREDIBLE support. I'm not just talking about a stupid help desk....I'm talking about interacting with your members on a continuous basis by providing them with a way to get into contact with you easily. I use skype. In one year I have only had ONE refund simply because of the amazing support that I provide.

    Super Support really adds to Value!
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    • Profile picture of the author Jassim
      Originally Posted by RGallowitz View Post

      Here is a GOLDEN tip to create incredible stickability for a membership site.
      Provide INCREDIBLE support. I'm not just talking about a stupid help desk....I'm talking about interacting with your members on a continuous basis by providing them with a way to get into contact with you easily. I use skype. In one year I have only had ONE refund simply because of the amazing support that I provide.

      Super Support really adds to Value!
      This is really very nice tip. But i guess it's difficult to give support to everyone. if so, you have to be online all time all days like 24/7.
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      • Profile picture of the author Suthan M
        Originally Posted by Jassim View Post

        This is really very nice tip. But i guess it's difficult to give support to everyone. if so, you have to be online all time all days like 24/7.
        I think thats time wasting too. But there is a way around for it.. Hire VA's , or get reliable people to be moderators, support person. That should do the trick..
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      • Profile picture of the author david smithson
        Originally Posted by Jassim View Post

        This is really very nice tip. But i guess it's difficult to give support to everyone. if so, you have to be online all time all days like 24/7.
        I think the best way too gave support to people 24/7 is too have a JV with someone or several people for membership sites within the time differences so there is always support ....

        but this could work for internet marketing in general also .....


        David
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        • Profile picture of the author taberdude2
          Jassim,

          I don't think you would have to be available 24/7. You are human and most people would understand that.At the site I joined-the teacher has posted in the forum-the best times to reach him (as he does have a wife & family).He checks his forum daily and answers questions or pms.That way it feels as if he has a genuine interest in our success.Its more personal as well.His students are not being auto responded to and he does not have any partners.So his students are comfortable with him.


          Deanna
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    Even for good sites I believe the average "stickaround" time is only about 3-4 months--and that's if it's good!
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  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    3-4 months stickiness is EXCELLENT. That means you are carrying over the multiplier which means that if you get the same number of members each day and each of them stay for 4 months on average, you are multiplying your profits 4 times. Even if a member just stays 2 months than your are achieving x2 which is good.
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  • Profile picture of the author taberdude2
    Jassim,

    I think RGallowitz is right. Incredible support is helpful and also if the membership site provides a good value.

    I've joined several membership sites for various subjects dealing with IM.The first couple did not hold much value or I did not get much support regarding the subject that was being taught.

    Right now I am in an awesome membership site and don't see myself leaving for a long, long time.There is great value in the membership site for me.The program is easy to follow and the instructor is outstanding and attentive. He is also very active on the forum.

    Not sure if this will help your question or not.

    Deanna
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    • Profile picture of the author Jassim
      Originally Posted by taberdude2 View Post

      Jassim,

      I think RGallowitz is right. Incredible support is helpful and also if the membership site provides a good value.

      I've joined several membership sites for various subjects dealing with IM.The first couple did not hold much value or I did not get much support regarding the subject that was being taught.

      Right now I am in an awesome membership site and don't see myself leaving for a long, long time.There is great value in the membership site for me.The program is easy to follow and the instructor is outstanding and attentive. He is also very active on the forum.

      Not sure if this will help your question or not.

      Deanna
      Thanks Deanna. I understand always support is more important for any products or service. but at the same time, if the content is superb means, people don't expect support that much i guess, because they are getting contents way more than what they were expected.

      like you said
      Right now I am in an awesome membership site and don't see myself leaving for a long, long time.There is great value in the membership site for me.The program is easy to follow and the instructor is outstanding and attentive. He is also very active on the forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
    The average is about 3-4 months in non-IM niches, and more like 1-2 in IM.

    But that's an average and there are many things you can do to improve it

    My advice, and this is coming from some who sells an info product on how to create successful membership sites, is don't make a membership site your first info product.

    You can make it successful but it will work 10 times better if you plug a membership site into an already existing product funnel.
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRichJerksNet
    It depends greatly on the type of membership site we are talking about... I have members that I have had from day one. Now my website is all about useful online tools, so this is different than say some PLR membership site.

    Some membership sites I have been a member of for years, while others I have dropped after a week or 2 because they did not deliver what the promised. Support also makes a huge difference, if it takes longer than 48 hours to get an answer, then I am gone... Goodbye...

    Many different factors involved in your question.

    James
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  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    Well, for one of my membership sites I outsource basic support issues like technical stuff etc.... but I provide a direct contact path between me and platinum members who pay a higher premium per month. I don't need to be available 24/7, I just make myself available for about 2 hours a day and they love it. They don't refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author IMChick
      Originally Posted by RGallowitz View Post

      Well, for one of my membership sites I outsource basic support issues like technical stuff etc.... but I provide a direct contact path between me and platinum members who pay a higher premium per month. I don't need to be available 24/7, I just make myself available for about 2 hours a day and they love it. They don't refund.
      It seems that retention rate is 3 or 4 months at the high end in non IM sites. Of all of your membership sites, where do your retention numbers fall--above or below this 4 month mark? Are the ones with high stickability outside of IM?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Sindoni
        Has anyone heard of fixed term membership sites(FTM)? I came across this guy that promotes a membership site for a certain fixed amount of time.

        His rational is set up a membership site for 3mos., 6mos., 1yr. this gets people to stay until the program is over. and if they stay for 6 mos. this would be longer than the 2-4mo. average.

        Then at the end of the program you can promote to a different product or service.

        Sounds interesting
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        • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
          Originally Posted by Tom Sindoni View Post

          Has anyone heard of fixed term membership sites(FTM)? I came across this guy that promotes a membership site for a certain fixed amount of time.

          His rational is set up a membership site for 3mos., 6mos., 1yr. this gets people to stay until the program is over. and if they stay for 6 mos. this would be longer than the 2-4mo. average.

          Then at the end of the program you can promote to a different product or service.

          Sounds interesting
          Yup I teach this in my course.

          When you do it right it can be very effective. It's all about how you frame the offer, how you structure the content, and how you "sell" each piece of content.

          Takes a little more up-front thinking (not really much more work) and is not suited to all types of sites, but if you can structure your content to fit a FTM model it's definitely worth considering.
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  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    I think my case is different due to the relationships that I build way before they even become members. My retention rate is about 5 months on average. You are right, outside of IM you have a FAR greater retention rate. But I have found a very unique way to lock in memberships for nearly 12 months and that is to give away free hosting for 12 months. To keep the free hosting they need to be a member for at least 90 days. If they cancel before that, the hosting plan is canceled as well. They never cancel.

    I personally don't believe that is what keeps them tuned in....I always try and provide massive value.
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  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    Theres only one flaw with a fixed term membership site and that is you'll have to price higher offcourse. The drawback to this is that your conversions will drop. The upside to a membership model is that sometimes members FORGET that they are paying you. Some people get charged each month for YEARS and they never even notice it!
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    • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
      Originally Posted by RGallowitz View Post

      Theres only one flaw with a fixed term membership site and that is you'll have to price higher offcourse. The drawback to this is that your conversions will drop. The upside to a membership model is that sometimes members FORGET that they are paying you. Some people get charged each month for YEARS and they never even notice it!
      Why do you have to "price higher"?

      You don't. And I've not seen conversion drop for FTM vs normal, if anything they're higher.

      Yes, you'll miss out on those people who simply forget and end up paying you forever, but you'll also weed out a lot of those people who stay for a month and then leave.

      It's the average stay you should be concerned about. And that depends on a LOT of factors.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Sindoni
        Hey kyle would you suggest a newbie like myself getting involved with a FTM site? I don't have that much knowledge in IM, but I think that I have a good Idea for a FTM site.
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        • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
          Originally Posted by Tom Sindoni View Post

          Hey kyle would you suggest a newbie like myself getting involved with a FTM site? I don't have that much knowledge in IM, but I think that I have a good Idea for a FTM site.
          I wouldn't worry so much about whether it's a FTM or something else.

          If it's a solid product in a hot market and you market it effectively, then yes, go for it. Otherwise it won't matter what type it is, it won't sell.

          Ideally you want to plug a membership site into your existing business, not start a brand new business with one.

          (You can do it that way, it's just a little harder, especially if you don't have much IM experience.)

          So if you haven't done anything in IM yet start with something simpler, like a short report. Figure out how to sell that, get your sales funnel cranking, then add your FTM into the mix.
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  • Profile picture of the author jimmorris
    Having processed well over 75,000 membership subscription payments
    since July 2005, I can tell you somewhere around 3-4 months, IF you
    have interesting enough content to hold your members' attention.

    If you have a VALUABLE enough service and offer an irresistible offer
    for a longer term relationship, like a year, well, that really impacts the
    whole perspective of your members' stay, now doesn't it? ;D

    And it really even matters what kind of IM niche thing it is -- and quite
    often, I tend to now tie in LIFELINE services with things, so if people
    leave, they leave a PEACE of them behind. Do NOT tell anyone that
    secret at all, because that IS the holy grail and I'll give credit where
    credit is due -- I heard that at a JV Alert Live event (Ken McArthur)
    when Rick Raddatz shared that idea on stage back in 07. (take it to
    the bank silently -- shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.)

    You really have to ask yourself whether you are going to position yourself
    and your offer or website in the marketplace with a totally mouth-watering
    irresistible offer, or can your visitor find traces of what you offer elsewhere
    on the internet in higher quality packages and in comparable prices???

    If you can honestly answer that question by looking in the mirror and
    really being clear as to where you would like to PLACE YOURSELF in
    the marketplace. The stature of your offer becomes what I believe
    a representation of your actual confidence level, your maturity level
    in the industry and speaks volumes to the type or profile of paid customer
    you wish to acquire.

    Remember, that a lower priced client is a certain human profile.

    A higher priced client is also another human profile, because this
    individual has a much LARGER and FLEXIBLE budget to be more
    relaxed on what is being spent for your products or services.

    Which client do you want or which affiliate product do you wish
    to sell? (A wise man once said that it takes the SAME amount
    of effort to sell a $5 product as it does a $500 product.)

    The lower end client is more headache and more maintenance.

    High end clients expect more and if you can deliver on the
    promise of your offer, then they will most likely LEAVE you alone
    until you have a new proposal for them that requires additional
    funds. ;D

    You see, this is what I learned from Jay Abraham, a master marketer,
    in his $5,000 MasterMind Marketing Series, you must think in terms of
    HOW can you dominate the others around you. It's called...

    Internet Marketing Seminars | Hard to Find Seminars | Michael Senoff

    If there is one person to turn to as a marketer (I'm not talking just
    internet marketing because marketing as a whole is not about online,
    it's about STRATEGY AND POSITIONING IN THE MARKETPLACE).

    Folks, this stuff isn't taught because internet marketers would be
    teaching you exactly how YOU can out position themselves. (Holy
    moly, where the heck is this coming from Jim?!)

    And let me tell you something.

    Anybody CAN be outpositioned.

    Anybody.

    Everybody has a weakness and so do I somewhere if you know
    where to find it and how to exploit it.

    This stuff is dangerous when used properly...

    You give me enough research time and like two weeks to study
    the entire market both from a consumer perspective and from
    a business perspective, dump everything into my mind, let it sit
    for like 5 days and I'll come up with a way to outthink,
    outmaneuver, outwit even the mightiest of companies. Don't
    matter the size, it just matters what I can find as the weak
    point that snaps the bone that allows the marketplace to all
    of a sudden shift its attention right where? On me!

    Who-yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

    And that's what you want, and the rest of the world, and we
    all are here in this wonderful place call the Warrior Forum to
    find that POWER. And it's just so damn elusive, isn't it?

    And I know you will find it and will soon begin to imagine and even
    dream of how that power is going to come into you.

    I don't know how it is, but it's magical and it's going to happen
    for you, if you are committed enough to your cause.

    Are you committed to your cause -- I mean so wedded that you
    would sacrifice just about anything without breaking your moral
    turpitude factor.

    With those words, I bid you well on your journey and hope you
    find the true inner voice that guides you toward the promise
    land you so very much wish to find.

    Wait -- there's more!

    Let me tell you a little story. The internet marketers here do
    not go to other internet marketers (sure, they do share ideas), but if
    you want to see the absolutely and complete domination and a nuclear
    meltdown created just from creating a powerful offer that pulls and
    converts, the REAL heavyweights go to Jay Abraham (or Dan Kennedy).

    Period -- end of story -- hands down.

    Wait -- you brought Jay up already Jim -- what the heck?

    I know -- I like repeating myself because repetition is the mother of
    skill.

    I also purposely use repetitive training techniques to make sure that
    the information as presented in my stream of consciousness thought
    processed right here in front of you is constantly reaffirmed through-
    out so that I'm making sure to maximize your absorption and utilization
    of the information.

    Trust me -- you wanna get the upperhand on those in your marketplace
    and strong arm them without doing a thing to them because all you do is
    place your marketing into a place of pre-eminance, a league where your
    product is NOT in the same marketplace as others, and cannot be touched.

    However, always remember that you are permeable as your opponent
    is, which is why you must keep on the alert and be sure the constantly
    progress, adapt and push the envelope of staying 5-10 steps ahead of
    everyone else.

    This, my friends, begins to strike fear in the heart of competitors and
    can actually make business owners come to a decision whether to
    even continue with competing again you.

    There are some highly sophisticated people that use incredible strategic
    psychology in high/low bidding in Adwords to completely run a competitor
    out of a marketplace by simply outdoing the other guy and optimizing the
    landing page to where quality score and clickthrough rate drop the click
    rate for you while your competitor continues to struggle and pay more,
    not knowing what the heck is going on.

    But yeah, internet marketers that are teaching internet marketing are
    really teaching what I believe is a diluted form of "Here, do this and then
    do that, but don't really THINK about what you're doing." Yada yada yada.

    There's a missing key in here and I'm not going to labor that point at this time.
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  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    I loved your post Jim.
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  • Profile picture of the author stephenh
    It really depends on what you give them and how many of them ecer do anything with it. IM is massive for non action and churn and burn so you better be something pretty special. Ask yourself what you would stay with?

    Stephen
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  • Profile picture of the author Alibaba
    Jim (nichebot) you rock.

    I am a nichbot member and I have to say, he over delivers not just with the tools that like he says if you leave you leave a piece of your bus.

    Besides the tools - which are constantly updating - you see Jim on the phone and workign it - I mean - LIVE call in webinars with option to get the archives -now thats value one would be hard pressed to cancel.

    As for all other membership sites - marketers are 'oversold' on membership site and they want to make everything into membership and milk it and we can see thru it before we even signup - so obivously we signup and cancel before the month ends.

    bottom line...if you are stretching a product to make it membership to milk it.
    you better think again. you might acutally make more if you just price it at $47 rather then $1 to try and $20/mo - even after 2 months you just made $41 compared to $47 or $67 or $97.

    you can put all your content in a 'new' product and sell again 3-4 months down the line and rinse and repeat.
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  • Profile picture of the author robd1302
    I don't quite understand why it would be so short of a time. If you truly offer a valuable service, the only people that would quit would leave because of financial reasons, or possibly because they no longer have a need for what you provide.

    Even counting those people, I would think at least 75% should stay on for the long haul if one is providing high-quality content to members.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
      Originally Posted by robd1302 View Post

      I don't quite understand why it would be so short of a time. If you truly offer a valuable service, the only people that would quit would leave because of financial reasons, or possibly because they no longer have a need for what you provide.

      Even counting those people, I would think at least 75% should stay on for the long haul if one is providing high-quality content to members.
      Consider you've got things like...

      changing interests, financial issues, content not living up to promises, lapsed credit cards, the wife finding out, better offers coming along, products that really shouldn't be membership sites "strung out" to extract more money from people, new competitors offering more/better/cheaper/easier, free services becoming mainstream, changing business direction, people just not using the site/services

      ... and a billion other reasons for people dropping out.

      75% staying for the long haul ain't too likely, no matter what you do.

      Of course, there are retention strategies that can help. Jim mentioned probably the best one of all, and there are many many others. But a "typical" membership site without any of these strategies will, on average, see members stay for 3-4 months. And less in the IM niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author Samuel Lee
    Great ideas so far! I'd definitely say that you need great and regularly updated content to hold your members' attention. If you have a valuable enough service that offers updated information regularly and offer an irresistible offer for a longer term, say a year, it would keep members coming back for more definitely!

    One thing that can't be underestimated is the need for an incredible support network. Obviously a help desk system it great, but interacting with members on a continuous basis and giving them a way to establish contact with the administrators easily is a big plus! A great support system really adds value!
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  • Profile picture of the author Marcus Shaun
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    • Profile picture of the author Jassim
      Very nice points marcus. I didn't think about this 3 points before.
      1) They release content over a period of months rather than presenting all the information at one time
      2) They have special tools or services only available in your members section
      3) They have great communities within the members section (forums,blog etc)
      People will stick in as member for long run if they already active in blogs, forums etc.. inside the membership.
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    • Profile picture of the author PPC-Coach
      Originally Posted by Marcus Shaun View Post

      1) They release content over a period of months rather than presenting all the information at one time
      2) They have special tools or services only available in your members section
      3) They have great communities within the members section (forums,blog etc)
      I built my biggest membership site on those 3 pillars plus one more already mentioned, (which could be the biggest factor), support and quickly answering questions. I can concur that doing those 4 things above will give you a much longer retention rate. My site averages 8 months at the moment.

      I think the IM niche tried to run with membership sites, but forgot about providing support, tools, new content each month and building great communities. They wrote a product like they always have then slapped a monthly fee on an inactive forum. That led to very low retention, (why bother sticking around) and users that were annoyed.

      Then came the "build a membership site in five minute" products that made big promises but again forgot about the large amount of work required to keep members. Instead promises of recurring income for their five minutes of work were made and never fulfilled. Membership sites do work, but you need to work your ass off to keep members happy.

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      • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
        Originally Posted by PPC-Coach View Post

        Membership sites do work, but you need to work your ass off to keep members happy.
        You are damn right about that. Loads of work, but it pays off.
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