How to post your way out of a job...(Rant)

21 replies
Absolutely unbelievable...

I posted a job in the warriors for hire section asking for an experienced php programmer, it's a simple forum post, a basic overview of what we require.

I asked prospective programmers to email me, at k [dot] standerline [at] ntlworld [dot] com to prevent my email being scraped, I even reminded them to reformat the email address so it would work, and out of the several that have pm'd me to say they've sent me an email only one has arrived without me having to pm them and give them the correct email.

The point of this particular post??

Read what the post says folks before you go jumping in.

Am I really going to shell out a large sum of money to someone who can't even be bothered to read and act upon the few requirements I've asked for, (i.e I asked them to email me not pm me)

And if you can't even reformat an email address, how on earth do you expect me to hand over my business for you to work on. you're supposed to be a highly qualified programmer, surely you have an ounce or 2 of brains!!

When I was hiring staff in my old job one of the first instructions we gave was to write the application in black ink, the ones who refused to do this were immediately disqualified however highly they were qualified because they didn't even get the first instruction right!!

Rant over

Kim

p.s can I just point out this post is not aimed at all those who have responded to my for hire thread!
#jobrant #post
  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Yea I know what you mean Kim,

    I got fired from my job too because the boss caught me posting on the WF all day.

    Sorry for your loss, You will find another job.

    My Best

    George Wright
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    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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  • Profile picture of the author godinu
    well, this ends up being a good filter -- if someone can't follow simple instructions for something that could land them a job, they likely won't follow all of your instructions on the project, either.
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  • Profile picture of the author Perestroika
    This is one of the cons of dealing with online people. A lot of times when I post WTH type of ad most replies are from people who are not following instructions. For example I will post that I will only deal with people who will show me specific examples. I would get a lot of people who paste my a generic reply or tell me I dont have any examples but I can do the job.
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  • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
    It happens more than you may think.

    I was looking for a writer to assist me and I asked each applicant to submit a 300 word writing sample formatted a certain way. (1in margins, 1.5 line spacing etc) . I even explained that the request was part of the evaluation process and I wanted to ensure that they understood how to format and follow directions.

    Out of 52 applicants only 9 submitted as requested. It was then confirmed that some people just can't follow directions. To make matters worse, one of the people that chose NOT to follow directions told me that he thought I wasn't serious about the formatting.

    Long story short, I understand exactly how you feel.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Okay class. During this session I don't want any questions. And I ABSOLUTELY don't want anyone raising their hands. I'll take questions when I'm through. Raise your hand if you understand. Typically, 40% of the class will raise their hands to acknowledge the instructions. :rolleyes:
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    • Profile picture of the author Janet Sawyer
      This isn't only an "online" problem.

      In my past experience as a School Governor, we would (the School) advertise vacancies. One stipulation was that they (the applicants) would have to fill in the application form in Black Ink. In their own handwriting.
      Those that sent in their application form in hand written black ink, got put into the serious sifting pile.

      Those that sent in their application forms in typed black ink - OK, got into the sifting pile. (For maybe consideration)

      Those that sent in their application form in hand written blue ink, (Biro or fountain pen) got put into the shredder.

      Those that sent in their application forms in handwritten Black ink, got an interview.

      "Failure to follow instructions, usually leads to failure"
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      • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
        love it lol

        Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

        Okay class. During this session I don't want any questions. And I ABSOLUTELY don't want anyone raising their hands. I'll take questions when I'm through. Raise your hand if you understand. Typically, 40% of the class will raise their hands to acknowledge the instructions. :rolleyes:
        Naughty boy Rod

        Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

        Kim,

        I've tried e-mailing you several times at k [dot] standerline [at] ntlworld [dot] and it keeps bouncing on me. I even tried eliminating the spaces. No phpppp programming for you!

        RoD
        Yup, that's exactly how we did it
        Originally Posted by Janet Sawyer View Post

        This isn't only an "online" problem.

        In my past experience as a School Governor, we would (the School) advertise vacancies. One stipulation was that they (the applicants) would have to fill in the application form in Black Ink. In their own handwriting.
        Those that sent in their application form in hand written black ink, got put into the serious sifting pile.

        Those that sent in their application forms in typed black ink - OK, got into the sifting pile. (For maybe consideration)

        Those that sent in their application form in hand written blue ink, (Biro or fountain pen) got put into the shredder.

        Those that sent in their application forms in handwritten Black ink, got an interview.

        "Failure to follow instructions, usually leads to failure"
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    • Profile picture of the author agc
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      Okay class. During this session I don't want any questions. And I ABSOLUTELY don't want anyone raising their hands. I'll take questions when I'm through. Raise your hand if you understand. Typically, 40% of the class will raise their hands to acknowledge the instructions. :rolleyes:
      That would be the 40% who understand, whereas apparently you don't, that raising a hand when requested to indicate understanding before you begin is not the same thing as raising one to ask a question after you begin. :rolleyes:


      To the OP: On the one hand, it is appalling when people don't follow your instructions. Even more so when a supposed IT professional can't deobfuscate an email address. But I'd probably still at least LOOK at the responses before deleting them just to make sure I'm not weeding out one of those savant types who does great work but may have "special needs" for management. Usually it takes just a glance to confirm the delete.

      But sometimes... maybe not often... but sometimes... one of them is interesting... in not quite the way you were imagining them to be, but maybe in some other way that yanno, just might work out better... if it works out at all that is.

      When you find one of those... they're way more than worth the added management headache. And in my years of managing people I've learned that one of them usually outperforms a handful of "normal" people. Figuring out how to make them fit into the big picture (and coaching/mentoring them as needed) is how I add value (ie earn what I get paid) as a leader.

      However, to the black ink aholes and the trick question aholes, and all the other HR aholes who still think the IBM trick interview tactics from the 60's (like if someone salted the food before tasting it, etc etc etc) were a good idea... the fact that you can trick people into failing your test doesn't make you a smart boss, or make it a valid test.

      That is, unless you are explicitly stating that you add zero value as a manager or a leader, and therefore you have no choice but to hire people who can be neatly pigeonholed into a role that's simple enough for you to understand and keep on top of.

      As long as you can find enough "good" candidates that you don't need the ones you filtered out, then hey, no worries. You'll be fine with the candidates you get, and the (few) potentially stellar candidates who may have been great additions to your team with just the least bit of leadership, well honestly, they are far better off working somewhere else. Besides, you'll never even suspect you're staffing for next years draft pick rather then this year's superbowl.

      But I digresss. ;-) Back to the OP... I definitely feel your pain. Just try to recognize that your investment in time spent staffing should match your expected return on that investment over its expected time horizon and the process will hopefully be less frustrating.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
        Yes of course I'm going to look at the responses, (I was venting)!

        I take your point by the way about taking on people who don't pigeon hole, I took on someone with autistic tendencies several years ago who interviewed horribly. I gave him the job anyway and I never looked back, he was and is fabulous at what he does.

        BTW I'm one of those people who salt their food before tasting first :rolleyes:

        Kim

        Originally Posted by agc View Post

        That would be the 40% who understand, whereas apparently you don't, that raising a hand when requested to indicate understanding before you begin is not the same thing as raising one to ask a question after you begin. :rolleyes:


        To the OP: On the one hand, it is appalling when people don't follow your instructions. Even more so when a supposed IT professional can't deobfuscate an email address. But I'd probably still at least LOOK at the responses before deleting them just to make sure I'm not weeding out one of those savant types who does great work but may have "special needs" for management. Usually it takes just a glance to confirm the delete.

        But sometimes... maybe not often... but sometimes... one of them is interesting... in not quite the way you were imagining them to be, but maybe in some other way that yanno, just might work out better... if it works out at all that is.

        When you find one of those... they're way more than worth the added management headache. And in my years of managing people I've learned that one of them usually outperforms a handful of "normal" people. Figuring out how to make them fit into the big picture (and coaching/mentoring them as needed) is how I add value (ie earn what I get paid) as a leader.

        However, to the black ink aholes and the trick question aholes, and all the other HR aholes who still think the IBM trick interview tactics from the 60's (like if someone salted the food before tasting it, etc etc etc) were a good idea... the fact that you can trick people into failing your test doesn't make you a smart boss, or make it a valid test.

        That is, unless you are explicitly stating that you add zero value as a manager or a leader, and therefore you have no choice but to hire people who can be neatly pigeonholed into a role that's simple enough for you to understand and keep on top of.

        As long as you can find enough "good" candidates that you don't need the ones you filtered out, then hey, no worries. You'll be fine with the candidates you get, and the (few) potentially stellar candidates who may have been great additions to your team with just the least bit of leadership, well honestly, they are far better off working somewhere else. Besides, you'll never even suspect you're staffing for next years draft pick rather then this year's superbowl.

        But I digresss. ;-) Back to the OP... I definitely feel your pain. Just try to recognize that your investment in time spent staffing should match your expected return on that investment over its expected time horizon and the process will hopefully be less frustrating.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    I like the (rant) tag you added to the thread title. I wish more folks would do that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zayne
    I remember someone on Fiverr having a fair bit of negative feedback about his gig, and when I went through it i didnt understand why, turns out in his EXPLICITLY LABELLED INSTUCTION PACK it said to download a particular video player if the videos didnt work, and what were all the negative feedback posts about? Videos not playing. I would say there CONSUMER FAILURE!!
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Kim,

    I've tried e-mailing you several times at k [dot] standerline [at] ntlworld [dot] and it keeps bouncing on me. I even tried eliminating the spaces. No phpppp programming for you!

    RoD
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    Hi

    This reminds me of a game from school. The teacher hands out a "test" with a list of instructions.

    1. Read the entire test before beginning

    2-11. All sorts of silly things like
    - Circle your desk 3 times
    - Write you name on the blackboard
    - Stand on your chair and say you name out loud
    - etc.

    12. Ignore instructions 2-11

    So everyone who actually reads all the questions first sits and laughs at all the students standing on chairs shouting their name...



    Mahlon
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    Unfortunately you see it everywhere offline, online doesn't matter.
    It happens when you use Odesk, eLance etc. here on this and other forums people posting comments totally unrelated to the OP.
    I wonder if it's pure laziness, people being over zealous or maybe even a language
    barrier, especially online, with your prospective employee being from all corners of the globe these days...
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    This is a typical filtering process used within government job applications here.

    They always include a small instruction within the application, and immediately ditch those that miss it.

    If you cant get that right, then youre bound to miss further instructions later on.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Just a word in defense of the other side...

      Some of us weren't born to follow directions, we were born to blaze trails.

      That's all.

      ~Bill
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  • Profile picture of the author AdwordsMogul
    On Elance, what I've done is to ask bidders to include a phrase when they apply for a job as one of the requirements. For instance "Please place the phrase 'Moto is good' at the end of your bid, so I know you've read these instructions thoroughly"

    That way I know they were careful when examining my requirements. Anyone who doesn't add the phrase is automatically disqualified, since it's likely they missed other points too.
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