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Whats with the WSO trend?

by dougb
18 replies
When I joined the Warrior Forum, I was amazed at the incredible minds who were creating these mind boggling amazing products, and even better, they were selling those products to us for a very reasonable price. After reading around it seemed the "spirit" behind the WSO was to offer these amazing products to the warriors for a "special price", which has always been reasonable.

What I am noticing is the sudden shift to price increases and some hefty ones, these are still digital products that hasn't changed. Let's not neglect the OTOs, had to buy a product and not 1, not 2 but 3 OTOs that were actually vital to the product working in my view. These were not here that long ago. It feels the WSOs are gearing towards being no different than those marketers "out on the web"

Hasn't anyone noticed all the questions about OTOs to the product creator on their WSO, "Is there an OTO? What is it? How much? I feel confident that sales are lost because of OTOs. Have you also noticed how many thank yous are on the WSOs with no OTOs

Even read once on a WSO a product owner state that his OTO cost $27, I bought the product and actually was seriously thinking about the OTO, until the OTO page opened and the price was $27....a month, might have been a good thing to mention when the seller stated the price when asked in his WSO page. That is not sales tactic. Just in my eyes thats nothing better than that lying to my face. There was nothing that even hinted towards monthly fee. So the product became useless so I deleted it. I didn't ask for a refund, I chalked it up to experience, To the best of my knowledge I have never asked for a refund for any purchase.

On the other side of the coin, I am so for the ways some marketers are selling,Selling options upfront is great. I see it mostly with WP plugins but its all on the salespage Single use is this much, multi site use is this much and developers use is this much. (IMO in this day and age who is running a single blog for ever is getting slimmer by the minute, how about considering a price between single and multi and only sell multi site licenses). Having 2 or 3 options right at the buy buttons not behind the next page. Again just my opinion.

My last little rant, dimesales, really? I will speak only for myself. I still have a full time job, I leave for work at 4pm and get home at the earliest 4am, pacific time Canada (7am Eastern), and I am not permitted to access this site on work computers.. So unless I choose to deprive myself from sleep because I cannot nap and get up, I don't nap I sleep. So because I have to sleep, by the time I wake up I get to see the price has usually at the very least doubled and its easy to verify when one of the first purchasers is woo hooing about getting for anywhere from 1 penny up usually to around $4 to start. It's like the WSO lottery, what price am I going to get in at?

As a WF and War Room member and someone who has purchased a LOT of WSOs,tons of PLR, videos, software, and so many plugins that if I installed them all they would prob fry the server has a hard time rationalizing why I can't have the opportunity to get the best price because of the hours I work, the time zone I live in, have we forgotten the WORLD Wide Web. Just a suggestion, how about 24 hours at best price, then dimesale, then the WORLD has a chance to get your awesome product, get on your mailing list and you have the opportunity to market to a larger mailing list. Long term that seems preferable.

I totally understand that a product creator / owner has every right to sell their product how and for what price they wish. It just seems the intent of what WSOs were meant to be, selling great products which many many are, for a Warriors Special Price, which was really not that long ago, around the $5-$7 range, rarely saw an OTO. It seems that as times are getting tougher for everyone its costing them more to try to get the help they want.

I honestly have no problem helping pay for your home, trip whatever you are striving for by buying your awesome product, I just don't want to pay for it all at once and I don't want to be upsold, give it to me all upfront and let me choose.

My apologies for the long rant, this is what my perception is becoming and I think I backed it up fairly good. Only you reading this can make that decision.

This is not a flaming I will never buy again post, as soon as I hit post Im off to the lottery to grab 2 products and hope they are within my range. I will still buy products but shopping around is becoming more frequent and sadly I am checking for free likeish versions of the same plugins rather than hitting the buy button almost without blinking. The latest greatest shiny objects will eventually start to tarnish, then the fight to revive is tough. Then again I may be wrong and the forum will flourish like never before for ever and ever.

However you feel, there is no intention to say anything bad about this forum, As I said I'm a War Room member I'm not going anywhere. This post is aimed at the seemingly consistent increasing prices and my personal rants on OTOs and Dimesales. If this offends anyone my apologies, it's not my intention.

In closing, my grandpa who was born in 1899 and stayed on earth until 1994. On his 90th birthday he told me 3 great quotes that is applicable to everyone,
1
Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. You can have the greatest product in the world but if you want too much for it, then the product will lose value as your potential customers will demand it for way less when you are ready to budge.
2
Push your customers or potential customers away and they rarely come back. Treat them right the first time and consistently from then on and you will have many customers for the long haul.
3
If sex is a pain in the butt you are doing it all wrong.

If you are reading this, thanks for reading.

Let the flaming begin

Have a profitable day.
#trend #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hi,

    I can understand your point - the reason behind a lot of it is due to the fact that the WSO section never used to offer affiliates the ability to promote the offers. Since that ability was introduced and people now run their WSOs through other systems - the ability to attract affiliates is what drives the most successful WSOs, so they want to be able to say "you get 100% of the product sale and 50% of all OTOs" because it's more attractive for the promoters, and means they still make money even though it appears that they're giving 100% commission.
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    • Profile picture of the author dougb
      Great reply, thank you. In retrospect that should have hit me in the face. I've always been trained to see the big picture but lost it and ranted off.

      I am still glad I took the time to post and get it off my chest, that stomach wrench is still going to happen when an oto hits and I cant buy a product because it tripled in price while I was asleep. That I can't stop and it's frustrating and a guy my age gut wrenching really hurts.

      I wish I could have summed it up as quick as you did.

      Have a profitable day, time to sleep after 2 purchases.
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    • Profile picture of the author REHughes
      Hey, Doug

      I think someone once told someone who again told someone else that there was Gold in them thar' WSO's, and so every Tom, Dick and Harry came flocking to the forum to pimp out their stuff they couldn't sell elsewhere for a reasonable price.
      Then someone told someone else to try the dimesale deal, and hey, it worked - built hype - and off they went, yet again.
      Then someone told someone else to bomb the heck out of their lists, and pillage every last ooze they could get outta them - they could make a fortune.
      Oh, well, I just finished unsubscribing from about 30 e-mail lists this last week cause of this same crap. Most were WSO pimps!
      Now, I search the WSO forum at my own leisure IF I need something - and if I don't, to heck with it.
      I'm tired of being molested! Lots of other folks doing the same from the talk here on the forum.
      Don't get me wrong. I've bought some good stuff in there, and probably will yet, - they haven't all gone the trash route - but I won't buy through their methods and tactics. I'm in control now!

      Robert
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      • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
        Originally Posted by REHughes View Post

        I'm in control now!

        Robert
        And that my friends will determine your success or failure here.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    The WSO section went from a special offer forum, where experienced and respected members offered real bargains, to a flea market of people spruiking their wares.

    Clickbank has started clamping down on a lot of sellers for making rediculous claims and so on. Consequently a lot of these sellers have set their sights on the WSO section, employing Clickbank type launches suchs as offering affiliates cash prizes etc.

    -Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    None of the things you described are inherently good or bad. It's all about the presentation.

    You say you want to have the whole package, for one price upfront but let me give you some examples of where that becomes a bad thing.

    I sell Wordpress plugins. You suggested a price in between single and multi and just selling multi site licenses. Presumably because you only buy multi site licenses.

    How do you think you'd feel if you were one of my customers that buy single site licenses?

    Another example. We were in serviced offices for six months. They told us every desk came with a phone. A value of £40 per person, per month.

    "We do everything online. We don't use phones. So I'll just have the £40 a month please."

    "It doesn't work like that."

    Exactly.
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    • Profile picture of the author dougb
      I understand what you are saying and I have purchased and use many of your plugins, all I said about single use licenses was just my suggestion, it wasn't a mandate. And yes I always buy multi or developer, I have more than one blog as does the masses that are marketing, thats not a secret.

      From a marketing mindset the single site license is the perfect model, when they make the move to adding more blogs an extra sale will be made when they come looking for the multi license, and more often than not that special price meant over that sale only so sorry full price please. As well I am sure that you have single site users and I agree not to alienate them.

      I may seem like a noob with my lack of posts, but this isn't my first dance in the marketing world, been here for years and 80% of my job is marketing and customer service for the last 20 or so years.

      I am sure that is not your marketing strategy, but it is a strategy used and recommended. I've been to the webinars, heard it many times.

      I am sorry I struck a nerve, I like and use your products and I remember that every purchase I made there were 3 buy buttons on top of each other with the options I could choose from right on the salespage. You have already satisfied a big one of my issues, and I have purchased more than once from you and will be open to again.

      I appreciate and respect your response and I am expecting more will be sharing similar views and I will respect their opinions as well. It's that freedom of speech thing that is also withering away in this world but thats another discussion for a different forum.

      Have a profitable day Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Fletcher
    All the buy buttons for that plugin were on the sales page but when you bought it you were shown another plugin and if you bought that we showed you a 3rd.

    None of the other plugins are required for the first one to work. They are just highly related and we find 30-40% of people that wanted the first one take the second one etc.

    If I packaged all of the upsells together I'd have to charge a lot more and the 60-70% of people that don't want the second one would have to choose to pay more for what they want or pass entirely.

    Again, my point isn't that upsells are right or wrong. The point is it's about the presentation.
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    • Profile picture of the author dougb
      I cannot remember the OTOs and cannot tell you if I purchased any of them without researching back, I think article blaster was my last plugin bought.

      I have bought many OTOs I'm just not a fan.

      I wholeheartedly agree that presentation is paramount from start to finish, never would argue that, regardless of how or price, I'm with you there.
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  • Profile picture of the author MatthewNewnham
    Interesting thread, and one that was bound to get surfaced sooner than later, given all the comments lately on WSO sales pages about OTOs.

    I like the distinction that an increasing number of WSO sellers are drawing when presenting their upsells, "You don't *need* this to get results from what you've just bought. I am showing you, this, however, because I think you'll find it of potential value." (or words to that effect).

    It's not going to be realistic or smart psychology, however much we may think we'd like to see the "whole price" stated upfront. How can a seller anticipate the needs of everyone? Essentially, it's an escalating set of valued products, assuming the products are actually worthwhile. Laying it all out in the open sounds appealing, but wouldn't serve as well, without a far lengthier sales page - and even then, I think it would please very few.

    I do think that a really good sales process contains some element of education, showing why something is a problem, how one might go about solving it, and how your solution really does that well. Andy's sales pages do that really well, as do others I like.

    What also helps is getting clear feedback on the sales threads, and some folks are really good at doing that, so that we can see the bigger picture, then make the choices that best suit our needs.

    Easier said than done in an imperfect world...
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  • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
    I agree with some of the things the OP is talking about. For example, dime sales are a bit silly. Why raise the price arbitrarily just to freak people out? It's more a mental game than a genuine value add.

    It works and it's good marketing, but not because people are getting more. It's because they are getting the same thing, but you are strong arming them into making a decision NOW, like a slick used car salesman telling you this car won't be on the lot if you try and come back tomorrow.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    One thing that surprises me is that with all the sales being driven primarily by affiliates now, why do people still use the WSO forum instead of their site.

    I know the sales used to be more organic. The $40 got you traffic, but now, most offers probably wound't be profitable without the affiliate driven sales. Affiliates can drive sales to any sales page, not just the WSO forum.

    I guess it comes back to the credibility factors of those who launch them. The WSO section being connected to the WF makes it a little easier to get a feel for the sellers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      I actually ask the same question to EBR over at JV Zoo and he stated better conversions although the best converter over there is not a WSO.

      I myself do not do WSO but everything is self hosted but do value the tested opinion of EBR and Zim so agreed to run my next offer for 30 days on my own host and then do a WSO for a case study ... we will see



      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      One thing that surprises me is that with all the sales being driven primarily by affiliates now, why do people still use the WSO forum instead of their site.

      I know the sales used to be more organic. The $40 got you traffic, but now, most offers probably wound't be profitable without the affiliate driven sales. Affiliates can drive sales to any sales page, not just the WSO forum.

      I guess it comes back to the credibility factors of those who launch them. The WSO section being connected to the WF makes it a little easier to get a feel for the sellers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Centurian
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      One thing that surprises me is that with all the sales being driven primarily by affiliates now, why do people still use the WSO forum instead of their site.

      I know the sales used to be more organic. The $40 got you traffic, but now, most offers probably wound't be profitable without the affiliate driven sales. Affiliates can drive sales to any sales page, not just the WSO forum.

      I guess it comes back to the credibility factors of those who launch them. The WSO section being connected to the WF makes it a little easier to get a feel for the sellers.
      Yes. This is exactly what I was wondering as well. It would seem your pricing could be a little better outside the forum with affiliate sales. The expectation is not a dimesale.

      But as mentioned above, the conversion rate is better. This probably reveals the facebook factor. People feel secure inside the WF just like people do with facebook. When they go out into the world "wild" web, they feel less secure.
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      • Profile picture of the author 4morereferrals
        One thing that surprises me is that with all the sales being driven primarily by affiliates now, why do people still use the WSO forum instead of their site.
        Easy ... familiarity, social proof, comfort zone ... equals better conversions.

        Most veteran warriors with products for sale will have a far better converting WSO thread ... a living breathing hotbed of social proof and discourse ... than cold stand alone sales letter.

        Guess which of the two affiliates tend to prefer to promote? WSO thread by large margins. Why? Converts better.

        "... Ohhhh looky there, 27 people I know and trust just grabbed that and most of them said it's good stuff."

        "Well damn ... if that warrior is buying it - and they're crushing it online, and their pretty sharp ... perhaps I'm a numpty for not buying ... ah hell its just $7 ...If I just learn 1 thing its worth it .... click!"

        Dimesales still baffling you? It works. ... to get people to get off their a$$$ and "Take Action" - and product sellers want hot threads of buzzing buyers ... and nothing spurs people on to click than ... A Discounted Price, Scarcity etc ... Humans are Humans - don't hate because folks have sorted out what makes them tick and act. Rather learn and use to your advantage / benefit etc.

        Know how many folks have contacted me after a release and said hey bro - I was at the 9-5 during the sale or man I missed it with my kid in the hospital or some good reason and we've honored that. So try that, and be pleasant and see if you get what ya want - a level playing field.
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        • Profile picture of the author David Keith
          Originally Posted by 4morereferrals View Post

          Easy ... familiarity, social proof, comfort zone ... equals better conversions.

          Most veteran warriors with products for sale will have a far better converting WSO thread ... a living breathing hotbed of social proof and discourse ... than cold stand alone sales letter.

          Guess which of the two affiliates tend to prefer to promote? WSO thread by large margins. Why? Converts better.

          "... Ohhhh looky there, 27 people I know and trust just grabbed that and most of them said it's good stuff."

          "Well damn ... if that warrior is buying it - and they're crushing it online, and their pretty sharp ... perhaps I'm a numpty for not buying ... ah hell its just $7 ...If I just learn 1 thing its worth it .... click!"
          My point was not really aimed at the power WF user, but rather the newbie WSO launchers.

          The stats from warrior plus show a fairly large percentage of those to be a complete bust. Of course I realize that is due to many factors for sure.

          Also, if you look at the stats from warrior plus and jvzoo, these cheap products are not converting much if any better than more traditional higher priced products did just a few years ago.
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  • Profile picture of the author Arroway
    I don't understand why people have a problem with OTOs. They have been around for years and are useful, not bad. I mean, the seller offers you something for a cheaper prize than normal after all.
    The same with dimesales. Something is given away cheaper for the early birds, as the price increases until it reaches its real price.
    All good and nice, nothing to complain about. I think the only things to complain about are bad products and customer care.

    Allen
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    • Profile picture of the author princecapri
      Originally Posted by Arroway View Post

      I don't understand why people have a problem with OTOs. They have been around for years and are useful, not bad. I mean, the seller offers you something for a cheaper prize than normal after all.
      The same with dimesales. Something is given away cheaper for the early birds, as the price increases until it reaches its real price.
      All good and nice, nothing to complain about. I think the only things to complain about are bad products and customer care.

      Allen
      I don't think people have issues with OTO in that they exist - its more about why they exist.

      Most marketers these days release a product and sell it at $7 - Great price.

      The problem is when you get to the OTO page, you are told that what you have isn't really the COMPLETE thing. Either some aspect of the method is missing, or there is a trick which could automate the process. These kind of OTOs suck. There is no transparency. Only recently some marketers have started putting information about OTO in the main thread.
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