I call BS - Can We All Agree To Stop This?

58 replies
Can we all agree to stop the practice of forcing purchasers to opt in to a product "update list" which, oh by the way, also happens to double as a marketing (aka spam) list? You know the drill - you buy the wso, but before you can access the product or in order to receive future updates to the product, you need to opt in to a list. So you opt in but instead of updates, the seller starts bombarding you with other offers. And the problem is, you're reluctant to opt out in the off-chance that the seller actually lives up to his/her promise by sending out a legitimate update at some point.

I call BS. You know you're doing it and it sucks. What's so difficult about offering 2 opt in lists - one a pure update list and the other an offer list? That way if you start slamming me with hundreds of useless offers I can opt out without jeopardizing my ability to receive updates in the future.
#agree #call #list #opt in #stop #update #wso
  • Profile picture of the author jamesrich1
    Not every marketer does this. Pure generalization of marketers. I hear where your coming from. Just opt out if you don't want to be slammed with offers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bigdadda
      Originally Posted by jamesrich1 View Post

      Not every marketer does this. Pure generalization of marketers. I hear where your coming from. Just opt out if you don't want to be slammed with offers.
      No one said every marketer does this. Many, many do, however.

      And re opting out, as I said in the op, can't do that because then I won't get the updates that I want and/or purchased. The issue is lists with dual purposes - providing updates and marketing offers - which prevents the purchaser from opting out of receiving the offers. For those sellers that do this, you know what you're doing and it's bull crap.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    What about people who actually have others sign up because they offer legit updates?
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  • Profile picture of the author KimboJim
    I understand the rancor, because no one like signing up to a list, but you can always opt out after getting the product. If the opt out wasn't offered, then you would be completely justified in this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bigdadda
      Originally Posted by KimboJim View Post

      I understand the rancor, because no one like signing up to a list, but you can always opt out after getting the product. If the opt out wasn't offered, then you would be completely justified in this.
      No, there is no "rancor" associated with signing up to a list that I want. I'm on dozens of these. And again, as I stated in the op, I cannot just opt out because then I won't receive the updates to the product that I was promised as part of the sale. The point is, I opted in to a list to receive updates, not to receive daily marketing offers. To force me to remain on a marketing list at the risk of not receiving updates to the product I purchased is, at a minimum, wrong, and in egregious circumstances, unlawful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Halcyon
    Not all marketers slam their lists this way, in fact the good ones treat their lists like gold. If you're on a list where you're getting bombarded, opt-out and send the list/product owner an email letting them know why you opted out.

    Because most people just opt out without saying anything, the list owner may not know how annoying he is. You may just help someone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author petelta
    Originally Posted by Bigdadda View Post

    Can we all agree to stop the practice of forcing purchasers to opt in to a product "update list" which, oh by the way, also happens to double as a marketing (aka spam) list? You know the drill - you buy the wso, but before you can access the product or in order to receive future updates to the product, you need to opt in to a list. So you opt in but instead of updates, the seller starts bombarding you with other offers. And the problem is, you're reluctant to opt out in the off-chance that the seller actually lives up to his/her promise by sending out a legitimate update at some point.

    I call BS. You know you're doing it and it sucks. What's so difficult about offering 2 opt in lists - one a pure update list and the other an offer list? That way if you start slamming me with hundreds of useless offers I can opt out without jeopardizing my ability to receive updates in the future.
    It's called creating a buyer's list. The most important asset to every business alive!

    They could just make it single opt in and have you automatically added when you purchase. Go thank the guy for giving you an option.

    If you don't want to see his offers, then unsubscribe. If you want his updates, then don't. Either way, you are giving up 1 thing for another... choose your destiny :p
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    • Profile picture of the author Bigdadda
      Originally Posted by petelta View Post

      It's called creating a buyer's list. The most important asset to every business alive!

      They could just make it single opt in and have you automatically added when you purchase. Go thank the guy for giving you an option.

      If you don't want to see his offers, then unsubscribe. If you want his updates, then don't. Either way, you are giving up 1 thing for another... choose your destiny :p
      Again, nobody is saying not to have a buyer's list. But having a buyer's list isn't a license to spam. You can have a buyer's list which is for marketing, and a buyer's list which is for updating.

      And talk about options, here's a modest proposal - dear Mr. customer, thanks so much for buying my product. As promised, I will be updating this product in the future. If you would like to receive these updates, please opt in to list A here. Oh, and I will occasionally run across great offers that I think you may find beneficial to your business. If you would like me to forward them on to you, please opt in to list B here. I ask you to sign up for 2 lists like this because I value you as a customer and want you to receive the updates to the product you purchased even if you decide you don't want me to forward any more offers to you. After all, you are entitled to receive what you purchased.

      Is that so difficult?
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      • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
        Originally Posted by Bigdadda View Post

        But having a buyer's list isn't a license to spam.
        If they give you the chance to opt out, and you've bought something from them - it's not spam by any definition of the word. EVER!

        Kindest regards,
        Karl.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bigdadda
          Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

          If they give you the chance to opt out, and you've bought something from them - it's not spam by any definition of the word. EVER!

          Kindest regards,
          Karl.
          Not true. If you sign up for one ostensible purpose (ie, to receive updates) and the seller emails for another purpose (ie, unsolicited marketing offers), this is spam. ALWAYS!
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          • Profile picture of the author Rashell
            Gotta agree (in sentiment) with BigDadda on this one. Even if it's not technically spam it's still technically annoying.

            The other day I purchased a WSO and was asked to optin to get "updates". All I got was...

            Day One: 1 email with affiliate link for a WSO

            Day Two: 1 email with affiliate link for a WSO

            Day Three: 3 emails with affiliate links for several different WSOs each

            It's a buyer's list not a "suckers with credit cards" list.

            Rashell
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            • Profile picture of the author BIG Mike
              Banned
              [DELETED]
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              • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
                Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                I'm only in here arguing the point that it's not spam - yes, I do agree that the practice is deceptive
                Ditto.

                This practice isn't how a lot of people choose to do business, and for the most part, I don't agree with it but you can't be calling unwanted email spam, that's the reason YOUR OWN (the proverbial you) emails sometimes end up in the bulk folder.

                Kindest regards,
                Karl.
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              • Profile picture of the author David Keith
                Originally Posted by BIG Mike View Post

                I'm only in here arguing the point that it's not spam - yes, I do agree that the practice is deceptive, unprofessional and you can learn from that...but it's still not spam unless they failed to provide an optout mechanism.

                Ironically, CAN-SPAM covers UCE, but NOT OptIn agreements - and that's where the deceptive practice usually starts. Even saying "Deceptive" could be wrong as well - you'd have to look at the legal documentation related to your purchase or optin to determine whether or not you agreed to receive the offers.
                I tend to agree that it is probably not spam as far as legal matters are concerned. Although I am not a lawyer or qualified to give legal advice.

                Having said that, I do think there is a tendency for most of us to consider these practices spam in the practical sense of the word.

                To the OP - I am a firm believer in seeking out solutions and not focusing on problems. It would have taken you far less time and mental energy to "vote" with your unsubscribe button.

                I certainly understand your frustrations, but you can't allow these people to do that to you. Just eliminate them from your little world and move on.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
            Originally Posted by Bigdadda View Post

            Not true. If you sign up for one ostensible purpose (ie, to receive updates) and the seller emails for another purpose (ie, unsolicited marketing offers), this is spam. ALWAYS!

            Clearly you have no clue what the SPAM laws are but would rather get all emotional about it and inject what you "think" are SPAM laws. In your opinion it may well be SPAM but according to the law it's not even close!
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  • Profile picture of the author MrCoder
    I dont like it either.

    However I have to admit even to myself that this is a free choice.

    If you are buying into offers on here - then really you should be asking yourself how low down the food chain am I?

    Once you realise - you may wish to restructure your efforts
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  • Profile picture of the author lilc800
    Well, I know where you coming from but I think the problem is not that they make you sign up but is the fact that they spam you... am I right?

    I mean if they didn't send you things daily would you mine? maybe they should send once every week or month, that would be much better?
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  • Profile picture of the author Xyn
    What happened to the good old "send me offers about related products" option when subbing for a list? People who don't want to hear about other offers, simply untick before opting in. Problem solved.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bigdadda
      Originally Posted by Xyn View Post

      What happened to the good old "send me offers about related products" option when subbing for a list? People who don't want to hear about other offers, simply untick before opting in. Problem solved.
      Bingo. Now that's what I'm talking about.
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Bigdadda View Post

    Can we all agree to stop the practice of forcing purchasers to opt in to a product "update list" which, oh by the way, also happens to double as a marketing (aka spam) list? You know the drill - you buy the wso, but before you can access the product or in order to receive future updates to the product, you need to opt in to a list. So you opt in but instead of updates, the seller starts bombarding you with other offers. And the problem is, you're reluctant to opt out in the off-chance that the seller actually lives up to his/her promise by sending out a legitimate update at some point.

    I call BS. You know you're doing it and it sucks. What's so difficult about offering 2 opt in lists - one a pure update list and the other an offer list? That way if you start slamming me with hundreds of useless offers I can opt out without jeopardizing my ability to receive updates in the future.
    You do know they don't require your opt in to email you, right?

    Never understood why people give credit card numbers to people they're scared to death to get emails from.
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    Oh man, it's only an email...

    Which you asked to receive...

    Could be worse - they could be calling you from a boiler room, a'la Rich Jerk 2007ish, trying to sell you on coaching/mentoring based on how much available finance you have on your credit card.

    I'm afraid it's part of the game - the best thing you can do, if you want to succeed in it, is subscribe to the lists of as many of the big guns as you can, and watch exactly what they do...

    NOT what they sell, but what they do - when they email you, what they say, what they promote.

    Like I said, it's ONLY an email - and I doubt they're hammering you more than once a day, like some of the lists I used to be on.

    Kindest regards,
    Karl.
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  • Profile picture of the author MrCoder
    Its a bit hazey - you are effectively talking about BtoB email and this is legal even without opting in (please correct me if I am wrong tho).

    The trick is to be the seller on here - not the buyer. Otherwise you lose - period.
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  • I see where your coming from. Just opt out and be done with it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Hayley McKeever
    I know what you mean! Luckily not all marketers are like that. The more professional ones manage their subscriber list really well. They split them into prospects and buyers and they tailor their messages accordingly. I wouldn't worry about missing some "golden email" from them, just opt out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Michael
    I'm actually reluctant to send ANY offers or affiliate links out to my list.. I dont want them to think they are "just another money sign" to me.

    I have 1 affiliate link being sent out in my followup sequence, and thats only because I personally use the service (private proxies) and eventually, my buyers ALWAYS ask what provider I use. So I figured I'd save everyone time & just add it to my followup.

    But I dont promote things that I dont/wouldnt use for myself.. That is just asking for people to hate you.

    As for this post:

    And talk about options, here's a modest proposal - dear Mr. customer, thanks so much for buying my product. As promised, I will be updating this product in the future. If you would like to receive these updates, please opt in to list A here. Oh, and I will occasionally run across great offers that I think you may find beneficial to your business. If you would like me to forward them on to you, please opt in to list B here. I ask you to sign up for 2 lists like this because I value you as a customer and want you to receive the updates to the product you purchased even if you decide you don't want me to forward any more offers to you. After all, you are entitled to receive what you purchased.

    Is that so difficult?
    You realize that most autoresponders base your price on the number of subs you have, right?

    So let me get this straight.. you think the list owner should have to pay double the price they would normally spend, just so you dont have to make the decision to either opt-out or suck it up & keep receiving their emails?? lol come on.

    Also, if you would purchase from more reputable sellers, you might not have to face this dilemma in the first place. As others have said, not ALL vendors do this...
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  • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
    Sigh...

    There is a big difference between UNWANTED and SPAM emails - but, clearly you have formed an alternative opinion.

    I know I'll be wasting my time and yours trying to explain, so I'm happy to let someone (perhaps Paul Myers) who knows a LOT more about these things than I clarify.

    If I'm wrong - great, I'm happy.

    Kindest regards,
    Karl.
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  • Profile picture of the author neilward
    I completely agree with Bigdadda here. I will liken it to buying a car. After you purchased a car would you be happy with a daily phonecall trying to upsell various extras, insurance, loan protection etc. I think not. If they phoned you up after a year and said your complimentary service is due would you like to bring your car in would you then be happy? Yes. IM should not be about this constant need to sell sell sell all of the time. What has happened to building a solid relationship, trust and all the time keeping your morals intact so that what you are actually doing is for the benefit of the people who you are selling to which will ultimately benefit everyone in the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author wickeddarrell
    some good points here folks, agreed the issue here is not a forced opt-in. If folks want to use a product, service opting in isn't an issue, it cleans your list, keeps the ones most engaged in the sending stream etc...I've actually suggested brands move from a more open system (asking for confirmed opt-in/allowing access or limited access to a service) to a forced verification system to simply clean up overall sending reputation.

    You're right about setting expectations...the companies bombarding folks with these types of mails so close to verification will feel it in their inbox%
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    A little disclaimer would be nice ("sign up for updates to this product, by the way I might from time to time, offer related products I think would benefit you"). The problem with that is: many forget the "from time to time" part and shoot out emails every day. Otherwise awesome product createors then frankly become pimps. Ugh. Those that do, I unsubscribe from. Those that actually update their product and VERY occasionally send me a related product pitch, get space in my inbox.
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  • We don't like this practice either and also hate those where they give you a price, say $47 and as soon as you buy you see a "Hey, one time offer, only another $197", and if you also buy then another upgrade say $97 and sometimes it goes on and on so that the $47 product actually costs over $300?

    Why can't these people be honest and upfront and say that in order to get the benefits their video spent 30 minutes of your time selling you for $47 actually costs over $300 for it to do as they claim assuming it does work which so many do not work ever, especailly when sold on Clickbank.

    We now check and try most products before we recommend them unless we know the seller and trust him or her word? What do others think about this practice, far too common all over the Internet? Bring back greater honesty and integrity!

    This is our biggest gripe so we thought we would we would get this off our chests. I feel so much better for doing that!
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    • Profile picture of the author igorGriffiths
      Having just setup my latest product in this manner and yes it does have an upsell which the user does not need for their purchase to be of value but is a nice extra to help them along.

      If someone pays me their money then I have the upmost respect for them and would never spam them as they have invested in the promise I made them with the expectation that their email is to be used to access their purchase and perhaps discuss topics tightly related to the product.

      The situation you describe should be kept for freebie seeker list members who you are trying to discover the key to their wallet/purse.

      Just been taught this technique on the 2012 list building challenge, buy or leave.
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  • Profile picture of the author Exel
    First - not everyone does this.

    Second - people should never be forced to do something after purchasing the product
    in order to receive that product. Optional opt-in is fine.

    Third - help yourself and unsubscribe from unwanted lists - makes things much easier

    Forth - "can we all agree on anything?" - people can't agree on anything not in a
    million years.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Thomas
    gmail has a filter function......use it
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    I agree with the OP

    I hate it when I'm "forced" to join an opt in so I can receive updates, it pisses me off even further when I'm forced to join just to get the product that I paid for then I'm bombarded with crap. And lets not forget that the unsubscribe button doesn't always seem to work. There have been a number of marketers (some quite high profile) that have continued to bombard me with their "offers" even after opting out from their list.

    I've found that if you give folks the option, they'll probably opt in anyway, and if they decide they dont want to, (for updates etc), then it's their loss.

    Not everyone uses gmail Kevin
    Originally Posted by Kevin Thomas View Post

    gmail has a filter function......use it

    Kim
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  • I think if the person is selling the WSO for 7 bucks the only reason he/she is doing it is to sell you stuff or the price would not be 7 bucks
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Just food for thought, I really don't think you need to force the whole optin thing. Even in the crazy IM world. For some foolish reason, about a week ago I decided to dabble in the the IM game as a hobby.

      I am seeing over 45% optin rates from pages that give stuff away without force opt ins.

      I know some are doing much better with the force optin stuff, but I am literally just asking for the email and people are doing it.

      BTW, almost half of those are coming back to signup after they have gotten the first thing completely free with no strings attached.

      You really don't have to trick people if you offer value. People will see it.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

        Just food for thought, I really don't think you need to force the whole optin thing.
        I have a new squeeze page in development which has two things on it.

        On the left, there's a bare link to the free download. You don't have to do squat. There it is. Download it.

        On the right, there's a place for your email address and a button that says "Subscribe."

        I figure the only people who won't subscribe are the people who don't want to be on the list anyway.
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        • Profile picture of the author goindeep
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          I have a new squeeze page in development which has two things on it.

          On the left, there's a bare link to the free download. You don't have to do squat. There it is. Download it.

          On the right, there's a place for your email address and a button that says "Subscribe."

          I figure the only people who won't subscribe are the people who don't want to be on the list anyway.
          EGG sact LY!
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          I have a new squeeze page in development which has two things on it.

          On the left, there's a bare link to the free download. You don't have to do squat. There it is. Download it.

          On the right, there's a place for your email address and a button that says "Subscribe."

          I figure the only people who won't subscribe are the people who don't want to be on the list anyway.

          This is something I always make a habit of doing... I give the customer an option and if they don't want to the so be it... But I actually give upgrades to my info products and they are missing out.
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  • Profile picture of the author HKSEO Jonbones
    If you bought a product off the internet, especially something that someone deems that you bought it because of their marketing strategy, the practice will continue. Way of the world
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  • Profile picture of the author xxxJamesxxx
    I ain't fussed myself. I'll optin to get my order but as soon as they start mailing me crap after crap, I'll unsubscribe... Easy peasy.

    James Scholes
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  • Profile picture of the author SamJ
    I don't understand why so many people on this forum insist on complaining about the most basic marketing.

    Seriously, you're complaining about marketers generating a buyers list. This is one of the most basic things that any marketer should do!
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    • Profile picture of the author David Keith
      Originally Posted by SamJ View Post

      I don't understand why so many people on this forum insist on complaining about the most basic marketing.

      Seriously, you're complaining about marketers generating a buyers list. This is one of the most basic things that any marketer should do!
      It's not as much the list building that's has people upset. It's how people decide to use the list.
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  • Profile picture of the author fenixpro
    If the list is managed in an professional way - freebie list for promos, swaps, solos (if you desire, that is) and the buyers list is used for quality content and whatever promo mix you want, then it really does come back to what the sub wants to do. Subscribe or unsubscribe. It's a democracy of sorts. Vote with your mouse. Over time, depending on what works and what is 'accepted', those votes have and will add up and create trends. Then these things may change. Anything else seems like subjective opinion or idealism - whether I agree with it or not...
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  • Profile picture of the author Arroway
    Those of us who are good and care about the people on our list don't send random crap to make some cheap money. I always remember there are real people on the other end, who chose to follow me. I could never betray them.
    Of course, the end purpose of a list is to market to the people on it and hence to make money. But there is a big difference between offering free value and good products versus sending random marketing mails. Only the beginners do the latter.

    Allen
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  • Profile picture of the author davezan
    Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

    I don't understand the practice at all. When you buy from someone, you're automatically on their mailing list.

    Why the extra opt-in?
    Three plausible reasons.

    First, some people just didn't realize or think of that until it happens. To be fair,
    some eventually get it and adjust accordingly.

    Next, others just couldn't afford an automated system just yet. That's probably
    on their to-do list once they can.

    Lastly, and this is perhaps the oddest, some people actually complain of getting
    an email saying they're now part of a list. This one maybe boils down to setting
    expectations from the start, and not everyone likes unexpected surprises.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    I always give the customer the option to optin or not... But if they have questions or if they don't get the correct updates then it's not my fault. You want customer service then you need to register your purchase, just like at Future Shop, Best Buy etc... etc... I don't send SPAM but I do send real updates and invitations for free training with an option to make a purchase later on but I'm definitely not emailing everyday with updates or sales pitches.

    That being said how many customers would be complaining if they didn't get updates to their products? They would be irate!
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Farnham
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      That being said how many customers would be complaining if they didn't get updates to their products?
      I always sign up for the updates.

      Rarely does the product have an update, but it sure is smooth marketing.

      ~Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author REHughes
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      I always give the customer the option to optin or not... But if they have questions or if they don't get the correct updates then it's not my fault. You want customer service then you need to register your purchase, just like at Future Shop, Best Buy etc... etc... I don't send SPAM but I do send real updates and invitations for free training with an option to make a purchase later on but I'm definitely not emailing everyday with updates or sales pitches.

      That being said how many customers would be complaining if they didn't get updates to their products? They would be irate!
      Hi, Mike

      I think you have hit the question directly, as a couple others did.
      The question wasn't really about opting in, or at least I didn't read it that way at first, but rather about being told you were on an "update" list, and then being repeatedly bombarded with everything.

      And, as you said, you don't hammer your list like many do.

      And, while I agree that there is no right solution to this, sadly the o/p has a legitimate complaint.

      I have been , as most of you have, in the same place. And, sadly enough, most of the time it is after purchasing a WSO. I rarely get this if I purchase a Clickbank product, or an offer from a vendor that uses other checkout methods.
      It just seems there is this whole different set of marketing standards that are used by many, not all, vendors and affiliates of WSO's.
      I finally had to get off of many "UPDATE" lists recently because many of the list owners were sending up to 4 or even 5 times a day.
      That is just ridiculous. So I had the option to lose any future updates on software or programs and unsubscribe, and that was my only option.

      Too bad, some times that's the only option we are given. But, I do try to make a note of all of those vendors, and steer clear of them if I ever see them affiliated with anything I am looking at again.

      Just my thoughts,
      Robert
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Bigdadda View Post

    What's so difficult about offering 2 opt in lists - one a pure update list and the other an offer list?
    It's twice as hard as making just one list, and fewer people will stay subscribed to the one that actually makes money. Since the amount of money it makes is directly proportional to the size of the list, that means it makes less money. So you're asking us to do more work for less money.

    That's not difficult. It's just stupid.
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  • Profile picture of the author goindeep
    ...Or just having a tick box field asking if people want to opt in or not.

    Marketers dont understand that buy forcing me to opt into their list in order to receive my product that A) I instantly de-value both them and their product and put them into my "hokey, over hyped, has to force opt me in because he/she is really not good at anything else list" B) I un-subscribe INSTANTLY and C) if im peeved off ill tell them in their sales thread that I dont want to be opted in and that I simply want the product I rightfully paid for.

    Another good idea would be to have a disclaimer in the thread telling people that they will be asked to opt in.
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  • Profile picture of the author shaynjordan
    I do not mind if I get updates and sales things from the person I sign up with, but what I do mind is that they sell the list and then I get poker and casino things 5-6 times a day that I block.

    I am not signing up with you to order poker or anything like that. If I wanted it, I would have went to that website.
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  • Profile picture of the author E. Brian Rose
    It's funny, but I have never seen a thread about JC Penny bombarding their buyers with flyers for years after a purchase. I have never seen Dominos Pizza called a spammer for sending you coupons in the mail. Businesses have been building buyer lists for centuries and sending those buyers offers again and again.

    I get that some of you don't like being marketed to. I am one that enjoys it, especially in my own field.

    I'm not a big shopper. I don't browse eBay, Dillards, or the WSO forum. I would rather have offers sent to me, either via email or snail mail.

    As for adverts in my own niche... that is just pure swipe file gold! Not only do I get made aware of new products that might interest me, I also get to see what other successful marketers are doing and copy what works.

    I respect all opinions on this topic, but... Is it just me or do marketers complain about being marketed to much more than the average consumer?
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    • Profile picture of the author celente
      Originally Posted by E. Brian Rose View Post

      As for adverts in my own niche... that is just pure swipe file gold! Not only do I get made aware of new products that might interest me, I also get to see what other successful marketers are doing and copy what works.
      +1 this is such a good point you bring to the table.

      I use to just see all these ads fly past me thinking, wow, that ad was kinda funky...and never did anything with that.

      Nowaday I look, and cut out, and add to my massive swipe file.

      WHY? well ...no one ever made money from re-inventing the wheel did they?

      Success always leaves backtracks....so I like this point.
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      • Profile picture of the author David Keith
        Originally Posted by celente View Post


        WHY? well ...no one ever made money from re-inventing the wheel did they?

        Success always leaves backtracks....so I like this point.
        No kidding aside, I saw on the news a few weeks ago a research team from Stanford I think it was actually spent a couple million to create square wheels and a track the square wheels could drive on.
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  • Profile picture of the author paul_1
    Most people optin with their trashbin email... So no worries...
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  • Profile picture of the author Flores
    One huge benefit of offering a WSO is the ability to acquire the information of people that are interested in a certain type of product. One of two things happen: Either the person who fills out the form is happy that they signed up, or they are not happy and unsubscribe. I thing that if you sign up to 100 lists and 99 of them suck, it was worth it to find the one person that offers you something of value. Rather than saying we should stop this, we should simply ask that those people who collect subscriber information should take better care of their lists, and not spam their brains out.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam James
    Most WSO are so cheap they make the money off the backend aka the list and not the WSO, simple marketing you are never going to see the end of it.
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