Big Guru IM Launches Dead?

48 replies
I started right as launches were getting really big...around 2005. Seems like during 2006-2007, the launches were about every single week. And pretty much everyone was participating. Reese, Kern, Stompernet, Filsame, Walker, Johnson, etc.

I got off most of the lists around 2008 I guess, so I haven't been paying too much attention. But are there really any "big" IM launches going on these days? I'm assuming that they are still going on, but maybe not on the scale or coordinated effort that they used to. Or perhaps those same gurus have moved up the value chain.

If they aren't, what do think "killed" the big launch? Greed, the economy, people tired of gurus? Decentralization of "Power"? All of the above?

I hadn't thought about it much, but I am still on John Reese's email list and saw that he launched a "Reese Report" membership site for $97. If I remember right, he used to do that back in 2004-2005. He had it going for about a week and just got an email that he dropped the price to $30/month. In the old days, that was unheard of....plus I hadn't really noticed others promoting him.

What do you think?

PS. For the record, this is just a topic of conversation...not "Guru Bashing". They could make more money now than they did back in those days for all I know.
#big #dead #guru #launches
  • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
    I guess there aren't any big guru launches. ha.
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    • Profile picture of the author Devin X
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

      I guess there aren't any big guru launches. ha.
      The still happen all the time! Take a look at any launch board llike JV Notify, Launchboards, etc and almost all of the damned launches are IM/MMO schemes. As far as the "big" gurus go, they've moved on to software production and "mastermind/inner circle" coaching. Easier to get 1000 saps to buy into a $30,000 program than to get 100,000 saps to buy a $197 push button application.
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  • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
    Guru launching a money making strategy almost ruins it because it becomes flooded with marketers. Take SEO link monster for example.

    If they'd have kept it quiet and launched it just on a few forums here and there, it would be strong and they'd be making consistent money.

    Instead, they went the guru route and blasted every list they had about this AWESOME NEW SERVICE.

    I have yet to hear anything good about it. From what I hear, most of their sites are getting deindexed.

    Personally, the only guru whose list I am still on is Travis Sago, but he keeps it pretty real and offers more than just a super secret money making button. He actually coaches people and makes pretty good money, as do many of his students. I'll probably be a subscriber for life.

    As for the rest of them, they can go straight to hell for all I care. I'm sick of the money making buttons clogging my inbox. I have a business to run.
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    • Profile picture of the author dreamcatcher90
      Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post


      Personally, the only guru whose list I am still on is Travis Sago, but he keeps it pretty real and offers more than just a super secret money making button. He actually coaches people and makes pretty good money, as do many of his students. I'll probably be a subscriber for life.
      Interesting.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghost Author
    All the above I guess. Back in those days, it was also far more easy to make money on ClickBank for affiliates. Clickbank + Adwords was a sure shot formula of success. You didn't even need a domain to get started! Now Adwords has banned such affiliate advertising, people have become skeptical of the Gurus, and of course the economy. That's why we don't hear about launches these days, I think.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Howard
    Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post


    If they aren't, what do think "killed" the big launch? Greed, the economy, people tired of gurus? Decentralization of "Power"? All of the above?
    Boredom. Been there, done that. Launches are a pain in the a$$ to coordinate and require a ton of work.

    Besides, Frank Kern last year summed it up nicely.

    Real businesses focus on one thing:

    Gaining leads - converting leads to buyers, daily.


    Doing a product launch is great for gaining leads, getting massive capital, and what not.

    But it requires a lot of effort. And the big number records have all been broken. So now a lot of these big names are off doing their own thing.

    However, the launch strategy still works and they are going on everyday, just not as big of exposure.

    Clickbank products are being released every month that makes millions of dollars.

    Big WSO's are being launched every month that bring in mid range 6 figures and some WSO runners in the various circles are predicting the first Million Dollar launch will happen this year some time. (And some are actively working towards it)

    And on a much smaller scale, launch tactics are making a lot of people money. Doing a 2 day presell and offering a bonus upped an affiliate promotion I did for a partner to selling 3 times what I normally do.

    It still works. It's not dead. At all.

    Rob
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    • Profile picture of the author James Basher
      probably because you unsubscribed from all the lists?
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    • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
      Originally Posted by Rob Howard View Post

      It still works. It's not dead. At all.
      What a shame...
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      • Profile picture of the author RyanMagin
        Originally Posted by Cataclysm1987 View Post

        What a shame...
        Not a shame for those making the money
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
      Originally Posted by Rob Howard View Post

      Boredom. Been there, done that. Launches are a pain in the a$$ to coordinate and require a ton of work.

      Besides, Frank Kern last year summed it up nicely.

      Real businesses focus on one thing:

      Gaining leads - converting leads to buyers, daily.


      Doing a product launch is great for gaining leads, getting massive capital, and what not.

      But it requires a lot of effort. And the big number records have all been broken. So now a lot of these big names are off doing their own thing.

      However, the launch strategy still works and they are going on everyday, just not as big of exposure.

      Clickbank products are being released every month that makes millions of dollars.

      Big WSO's are being launched every month that bring in mid range 6 figures and some WSO runners in the various circles are predicting the first Million Dollar launch will happen this year some time. (And some are actively working towards it)

      And on a much smaller scale, launch tactics are making a lot of people money. Doing a 2 day presell and offering a bonus upped an affiliate promotion I did for a partner to selling 3 times what I normally do.

      It still works. It's not dead. At all.

      Rob
      Yeah, that was one of the flaws with the typical launch approach. It was this "event marketing" attitude where the product really didn't get "sold" too much after the fact. Blogs stopped getting updated, product never got updated, and emails pretty much stopped.

      I was just getting involved with IM around this time, but Corey Rudl really impressed me with his strategy. He seemed to have an actual business where the daily focus was leads>into products>upsell>and then eventually getting them to use the entire suite of products. Oh yeah, and the course was updated every year as well.
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  • Profile picture of the author jamesrich1
    Brandon Buchard not too long ago just had a big launch. Matt Lloyd just had a big webinar launch of licensing his products. There will always be big launches. Remember the big dogs have lists of hundreds of thousands to millions of leads and they collaborate. When they launch a product its HUGE.
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    • Profile picture of the author Carlos Tabora
      Originally Posted by jamesrich1 View Post

      Brandon Buchard not too long ago just had a big launch. Matt Lloyd just had a big webinar launch of licensing his products. There will always be big launches. Remember the big dogs have lists of hundreds of thousands to millions of leads and they collaborate. When they launch a product its HUGE.
      It's important to watch what the "Big Names" in the industry are doing now. They are creating "platforms" now instead of immediate-profit "products". Look at Mike Filsaime's Evergreen Business System or Pay People Online solutions. These are systems that will help you establish your business for the long haul regardless or whatever niche is hot at that moment. Marketing online is changing. Corporate America is moving their advertising and research/development money online. According to a recent report (I forget which one), ad spending online now exceeds that of all advertising spent offline.

      Because of that, along with new government laws (FTC disclosure, etc.) and the transparency and possible viral potential (both positively and negatively) of social media, independent internet marketers who were hoping to still make money by throwing up a landing page/squeeze page and a affiliate link are over.

      Internet marketers need to start doing real marketing and running their online sites like a real business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    If we're only talking about the MMO market, then launches (big or small) are a constant. Some people may not see them because they're not part of many lists or certain key lists. Just this last quarter I've seen about 40 launches, some small, some fairly big.

    "Big" launches are still around and they aren't going to go away anytime soon. The smart marketers don't depend on these launches in the sense that it's a "do or die" scenario, it's just one of the many strategies they use to get momentum going.

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      If we're only talking about the MMO market, then launches (big or small) are a constant. Some people may not see them because they're not part of many lists or certain key lists. Just this last quarter I've seen about 40 launches, some small, some fairly big.

      "Big" launches are still around and they aren't going to go away anytime soon. The smart marketers don't depend on these launches in the sense that it's a "do or die" scenario, it's just one of the many strategies they use to get momentum going.

      RoD
      Yeah, the launches now seem a little more subdued, but are still probably making great money. I think I was used to a few years back, just an absolute frenzy where everyone was talking about the products (in forums or otherwise).

      The Reese launch of his new Reese Report kinda was an eye-opener to me though. A few years back, that would've been a $400/month product. Now it's $97/month cut down to $30/month. And I didn't notice any launch partners...or at least the ones whose list I'm on. But in that case, could've just been that John Reese has been living off his $1M/launch day reputation for about 8 years.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kael41
    I see big launches going the way of the slam dunk contest..yea it was great and all 10 years ago, but the same flashy stuff keeps popping up every year and no one is bringing anything innovative to the table. Game changing and innovative is something the IM market has yet to see in a long time. It's true. We can all point to product x and product y as being great, fantastic, it'll make you $xxx, but come on. This marketplace has educated itself immensely over the last couple of years and that's why you see a drop off in big launches..in my opinion.

    You will ALWAYS be able to sell a shovel to the gold digger, but what happens when the gold digger wisen's up and realizes it's more profitable to sell shovels?
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Another thing that seems to have dropped off a bit are seminars. Seemed like there was a different big guru seminar every other week for awhile there. I'm sure there are some still out there, but you just don't hear about them as much as you used to, or at least I don't.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
      Originally Posted by Black Hat Cat View Post

      Another thing that seems to have dropped off a bit are seminars. Seemed like there was a different big guru seminar every other week for awhile there. I'm sure there are some still out there, but you just don't hear about them as much as you used to, or at least I don't.
      Yes, seminars definitely were HUGE back when I started. I could be wrong about it, but I think even the System Seminar isn't doing it like they were. I know the big guru seminar was the Big Seminar when I started. Not sure if that's still around.
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  • Profile picture of the author ShawnSells
    It's hard not to think that sky-high refunds didn't hurt the IM launch business. A friend of mine used to promote the $2,000+ launches for the big commissions. She did sell quite a few, but also got a lot of refunds. So, her net was not much. 40% refund rates can do that.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrafficBot
    Clickbank has found a new niche: REFUNDS. They are charging vendors $5-$10 per refund now and vendors are howling. Since they have now realized that refunds are part of their new business model they managed to carve out a nice payment processor niche for themselves
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    • Profile picture of the author lerxtjr
      The whole IM industry has two major repelling magnets working against each other. 1) the web is so much more complex than it was even 5 years ago that a newb is so far behind the learning curve that it's almost sad to think of someone just starting online, and 2) people expect an even shinier silver bullet than previous years. Meaning, people want to do even LESS work than they were willing to do 3 or 5 years ago to make their millions online. It's just a no-win situation for the high volume guru launches.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
        Originally Posted by lerxtjr View Post

        The whole IM industry has two major repelling magnets working against each other. 1) the web is so much more complex than it was even 5 years ago that a newb is so far behind the learning curve that it's almost sad to think of someone just starting online, and 2) people expect an even shinier silver bullet than previous years. Meaning, people want to do even LESS work than they were willing to do 3 or 5 years ago to make their millions online. It's just a no-win situation for the high volume guru launches.
        I agree to some extent. I think it has to do with a few things...

        1) People were more optimistic a few years ago. People were making money all over...online and offline. It was kinda like the house flipping craze...you saw idiots making money. I know lots of people online that made money with horrible tactics...but it got them started. Nowadays, there are way less people just falling *ss backwards into money.

        2) Definitely a concentration of power----People like Corey Rudl, Ken McCarthy, John Reese, etc. They all were making lots of money before the IM craze. They all met at conferences, formed their groups, and then promoted each other. Nowadays, there are tons of really smart people that started in the last few years. Plus with social media, people are meeting others all over (online and offline).


        Just interesting how quickly things changed. Stompernet basically just completely dissolved. Even popular blogs like Shoemoney (who isn't really a Guru) seem to have lost a lot of readers. He used to have 50-75 comments per post, now he's lucky to get double-digits. It's clearly a problem for him because he never used to respond to comments, now he responds to all of them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Congrats
          Originally Posted by Ryan David View Post

          It's clearly a problem for him because he never used to respond to comments, now he responds to all of them.
          haha this sounds funny.

          I wonder what's going on. I think the warrior forum is doing better then ever, or not? Visitor wise i mean.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by TrafficBot View Post

      Clickbank has found a new niche: REFUNDS. They are charging vendors $5-$10 per refund now and vendors are howling.
      When did that start happening?

      I've been out of the loop with anything ClickBank since 2010, so...

      That's pretty crazy considering refund rates used to be up to 50%.

      That $5 to $10 refund rate seems like a good tactic to get vendors to tone down copy, but it's got to be a pain for the vendors... I mean, everyone's going to get at least SOME refunds.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by TrafficBot View Post

      Clickbank has found a new niche: REFUNDS. They are charging vendors $5-$10 per refund now and vendors are howling. Since they have now realized that refunds are part of their new business model they managed to carve out a nice payment processor niche for themselves
      I'd like to know where you got that information from because I'm a ClickBank vendor and I haven't had this happen to me at all. So I'm asking where did you get that information from? If it's on ClickBank's site it must be very well hidden because I have looked everywhere and cannot find anything remotely accurate to what you are saying here.

      The only thing ClickBank charges for are dormant accounts and charges $5 per pay period until there are no more funds in the account, if the account hasn't had any activity in a few months.
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  • Profile picture of the author JimWaller
    Launches are still happening, they're easy to spot when you get 20 emails with almost the exact same subject. I've seen it more with WSOs recently probably due to the generally lower prices for WSOs making them more affordable in this economy.

    I've definitely seen a lowering of pricing structures in recent months. Products that would have sold for 27 or 37 dollars are now only 7 or 17 dollars. unfortunately, lower prices means it's less lucrative for affiliates, which may explain the seeming drop off.

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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Warriors
    I dunno, but I used to follow a completely different niche, and I saw the same pattern. A bunch of huge launches (DVD courses and live events mostly) from 2005-2008, and then nothing. Wonder why.
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    • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
      Originally Posted by Andy Button View Post

      I dunno, but I used to follow a completely different niche, and I saw the same pattern. A bunch of huge launches (DVD courses and live events mostly) from 2005-2008, and then nothing. Wonder why.
      For the Internet marketing niche it may be because a combination of things like high refund rates, low conversion rates, and bad press for "The Syndicate" (i.e. Salty Droid).
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  • I don't think launches will every die they will adapt like everything else.
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  • Profile picture of the author smokey58
    About a year and a half ago, Kelly Felix...aka. The Rich Jerk, Bring The Fresh, promoted a high end Iphone app creating course to his subscribers. The course was by Tray Smith who is Frank Kearn's cousin.

    If I recall correctly, Kelly sold 5 units to his list. The top guru sold less than 15.

    Kelly said that people are no longer biting on these big ticket guru courses.

    Check out this site: ยป The Salty Droid >> bleep
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  • Profile picture of the author quercus5
    There are still plenty of gurus and large product launches, but the market is very saturated which forces prices down. The really big launches sometimes get lost in the fog of all of the emails you get from everyone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author Campaignmarket
    I think one of the reasons why the "BIG" Guru approach isn't really working any more!
    Consider how many internet marketers there were back in 2006, 2008, 2010 and 2012!
    Do you see a patterne? Thats because there is - and that is the same for the numbers of IM's that are actively becoming better in this industry! That means less to fool! Besides one can't really claim to be a guru to something that its more mainstream! Because thats what internet marketing is growing to become - Mainstream! Because some "clever" Gurus have driven butt-loads of people to the industry! Of course only the smartest, most resourceful or determined IM's actually survived in this business! But still that is exactly what the "GURU" route does bring more competitors to the table! Is that really what you want? Sure it does provide an opportunity to sell even more stuff but you're still making it even more mainstream. I ask again, is that what you want? Because lets face it the more people we are at doing this, the less we all get! So I ask again - Is this what you want? I think I've made my point absolutely crystal clear - if not! Bringing more to the table just makes it harder and harder to earn money - No matter the niche!

    Well that was just my 02's.
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  • Profile picture of the author anthm
    there are frequent launches mentioned on JVNotifyPro.com, usually every few days. There are some repeating names but none of the big guys from years past.
    One thing I noticed is a move to Clicksure instead of clickbank by some gurus. In two cases there were last minute switches from clickbank to Clicksure, but I don't know the exact reason. One was after the product was already live for a couple of days (The Success With Anthony program by Anthony Morrison was the one that switched post launch) so it must have been a good reason to do that and risk confusing affiliates. In his prelaunch video he did mention the refund rate on clickbank being too high and what he was doing to try to keep people from refunding post purchase. I do not know if this was the reason though.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by anthm View Post

      there are frequent launches mentioned on JVNotifyPro.com, usually every few days. There are some repeating names but none of the big guys from years past.
      One thing I noticed is a move to Clicksure instead of clickbank by some gurus. In two cases there were last minute switches from clickbank to Clicksure, but I don't know the exact reason. One was after the product was already live for a couple of days (The Success With Anthony program by Anthony Morrison was the one that switched post launch) so it must have been a good reason to do that and risk confusing affiliates. In his prelaunch video he did mention the refund rate on clickbank being too high and what he was doing to try to keep people from refunding post purchase. I do not know if this was the reason though.

      The ONLY reason they moved is because they were probably kicked off of ClickBank... I can say with almost certainty that's what the case was. Their copy was far too overboard for the FTC's new policy which ClickBank is following.
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      • Profile picture of the author anthm
        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        The ONLY reason they moved is because they were probably kicked off of ClickBank... I can say with almost certainty that's what the case was. Their copy was far too overboard for the FTC's new policy which ClickBank is following.
        Interesting, He did have a very slick marketing video. Although he was trying to have his bases covered in the long disclaimer on the bottom. I have to admit that was the first time I have actually seen "Most people do not make any money with this system" being put right in the disclaimer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Henry White
    To be perfectly frank about it, I couldn't afford their products when I was just getting started a year ago, and now that I could afford them I honestly don't feel the need for any of these high-ticket items.

    Still, I'm very thankful to them because I've learned so much just by attending their free webinars and taking notes. And learned even more by deconstructing and studying what they're actually doing in their presentation, sales copy, e-mails. It has paid off very handsomely for me in the past 15 months - and will for years to come!
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  • Profile picture of the author KillerJVs
    "Guru" launches are still going strong... Filsaime is doing one at the moment for some offline marketing thing. Jenkins did a mini-relaunch of video boss last month. Deiss launched Digital Marketer not long ago..

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  • Profile picture of the author JKflipflop
    Wouldn't go so far as to saying that big launches are dead coz sometimes when I get bombarded via multiple lists regarding the same launch, I know for a fact that a veteran seller is behind it and usually that is the case. Scalability only increases as more and more folks enter the IM market. I would probably say that big launches do happen - but maybe they are scarce in number as opposed to few years ago.
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  • Profile picture of the author frlane
    I think the big launches still have a place. Andy Jenkins re-launched Video Boss recently and Mike Koenigs just did an Instant Customer launch.
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  • Profile picture of the author Maxarbo
    I think they now mostly promote their launches among each other. Each Big Guru Markets other Gurus products to their list and get a 50-60% commission.

    Also they now market their products to pre-screened "Buyer Lists".

    It keeps it more low profile. Rather than sending out millions of emails to sell 2,000 units at $2,000 each and give away half the money in commissions they try to sell more internally among each other.
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  • Profile picture of the author J50
    They've exhausted their lists, I heard somewhere that combined they all have around 1 million subscribers. List building is expensive and to replenish a list of that magnitude will cost a lot of money...

    You have to remember that only a very small percentage of people can actually afford a $2K product - and because of this those who can afford it have brought.

    Nobody wants to wait 6 or 12 months for a MMO product to come out. Lol, what a waste of time you could of spent that time learning here and taking action.

    That's my theory.
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  • Profile picture of the author bizgrower
    Or, guys like Kern and Walker have moved into individual client consulting.
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  • Profile picture of the author roblawrence
    The Salty Droid has exposed so many of these scammers. Not a lot of sheep left for them to trick.

    People can google before they buy...AND THEN THE TRUTH COMES OUT.
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  • Old-school Guru high-ticket ($1,997) product launches have indeed slowed down over the last 2 years.

    The economy shifted, our market matured, WSO mentality took over, and there are not that many ways you can package the same stuff over and over.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    people are more budget minded and savvy about not getting into continuity programs and upsells and overpriced guru systems; they've grown immune to the whopping price tags. and well said ken_c; list fatigue, burnout, trust issues, if you pillage your list they won't trust you, which is a good thing... the bs people in my niche are like locusts, all cross promoting their latest $2,000+ shiny object for MLM-style aff commisshes model; people wise up.
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  • Profile picture of the author tjaysen70
    ha I noticed this thread was posted last year, and currently those big names that were mentioned in the thread haven't launched anything for quite some time. I am on all their lists too and haven't even seen any email promos from them.

    I did get an email from Kern saying that he is pretty much doing all consultations now, pretty much out of the IM game altogether. Reese took a bunch of time off to travel around the world and hasn't released any products as of late either.

    It's funny though, that you still see launch after launch still going on and it's rehashed stuff that isn't anything new.

    So many newbies join the ranks of " I wanna buy everything, and get the next shiny new object" everyday, that there still are plenty of folks that will buy the latest product launch. To those of us that have been in the game for a while, these daily launches are getting tiresome.

    The most recent launch by Ronnie M "mobile money code" is another one of those that is hyped up. He hired actors and rented the Ferrari and the mansion and so much of it is so contrived, (the video) that it gets ridiculous. Your BS meter goes off instantly.

    But he has a million and 1 JV's promoting it, so he will make money for sure. But if you watch the sales video it is the same stuff all over again. The "It's not your fault" pitch, the "I was just like you, until I stumbled upon the secret code" , the "I found this forum that was invite only for millionaires, but I found a Hacker that was able to get me in and was able to get me this secret code that I fine-tuned and now I make $20,000 a day" Blah Blah Blah...It's totally freakin ridiculous.
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