Just bought a $47 list-building product, what would you expect?

by ryanmilligan Banned
73 replies
Well warriors,


I just purchased a $47 product based on list-building. It contained 6 reports and it was 'OK'. Nothing special, no gems. Things that most people know. I wont ask for a refund because I don't really feel it's fair to do so sometimes and it's only $47, doesn't mean much to me. Anyway the price of the product in relation to the quality got me thinking.

But the whole point of the thread was to establish, if you are paying $47 or even $27 for something. What do you really expect when buying 'higher-priced' products? It's always been a shady area - at least in my eyes.

And if you sell products what do you actually provide for these prices.?

As a seller I always trying to give my customers twice they value they are paying for. If it was a $7 then they should be willing to pay $14 - even though they don't have to, but you get what I mean.
#$47 #bought #expect #listbuilding #product
  • Profile picture of the author HeySal
    Hard questions because there are always people out there that already know more than others about any subject. What you paid $47 for and know most of already may be an absolute bible of the subject for someone really new. To me it seems that it's part of the responsibility of the product maker to tell on their sales page who is going to get the most benefit. Is the product too deep for someone without remedial skills - or will someone beyond beginner's stage find it trite? Tell people so they aren't going to be disappointed.

    When I pay for a product, I have, from the sales material, presumed it was right for me. If there's nothing new in it for me to learn that is really good for me to learn, it's a refund. If I learn only a few things, it should be a very inexpensive product. Learning what I could have invested the same value into research (such as a 15 dollar product vs 40 minutes of research, seems okay). If I am paying $47 bucks or more, then I am paying around the price of a textbook and expect to learn quite a deal about some procedure, process, or subject from it.

    The basic questions to ask are:
    How much time would I put into researching the info and putting it together to get this conclusion on my own? Was the price worth that amount of time?

    Would I ever have been able to reach these conclusions on my own and are they instrumental in helping me attain my objectives? The product has just gone way up in value if you answer yes.

    Would this product (software, etc rather than info) help my business in ways that save me time and help me make money? Value = ROI. Small increase or time savings, inexpensive product -- totally mind blowing automation that increases business substantially -- pay for it if you can afford it. lol.
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      This is something that has been on my mind lately.

      What would you say these "reports" entail exactly.

      I want to write a report for one of my niches and sell it at a similar price. Though I'll be targeting, on average, higher wage earners than the typical IM crowd.

      To answer your question, I expect a product to deliver at least double the value I pay for it, which I will decide once I've read it.

      But like I said -- higher earners probably expect to pay more.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tony Marriott
        The value of anything is very subjective.

        What one person feels is bargain another will feel is a rip off.

        It also depends on where you sell it.

        Here on the forum the WSOs have kinda set a low price (or at least expected price) on many products and many don't see them as "Special Offers" any more but a standard price.

        Even at that you can see refund requests for $7-$9 products so it would seem that even at that price some don't see the value. Bearing in mind others will pay more than that for one article.

        Also I think (as a buyer) you need to view the value in context.

        In your list building example for instance if that is the last part of the puzzle for you (i.e. you have created a product, created a sales page, created a squeeze page, built your product delivery system but need to understand list building to finalize your customer funnel) then the $47 is ultra cheap.

        On the other hand if you don't understand all that yet then a list building guide in isolation may not look that valuable.

        It would be nice to think that the value of a product could be judged by the value you would expect someone to get from it. Unfortunately most (as we know) will actually do nothing with it so again that does not work in practice. A one page report telling you how to make $5000 a month will still be seen as low value because it is only one page.

        I think for products over $37 it is expected to get more than an eBook these days (no matter how good the ebook). Videos at the very least, possibly software as well or even some "group" tuition i.e webinars.

        You need to understand your potential customers. The only way I have found to assess that is by what they have already bought

        I can see that if I send offers of $97 to my list of $9 buyers I get almost zero sales. If I send them $9 offer I can make a lot of sales.

        I also see that in reverse correlation. I do not have a lot of success with sending low cost offers to my highest paying customers.

        Those customers are in a different place and are prepared to spend money if they can get the products they need. Of course you need to make sure you are delivering what you promised in the sales blurb. No good pulling the wool of these guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author JForsberg
    For a 47$ I wouldn't expect much really. For a 9xx$ however, I'd expect a lot. To me, it's like, if I have to pay a high price, I want high quality.
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    • I would expect that someone who advertises a free list-building service wouldn't need a $47 list-building product.

      fLufF
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      • Profile picture of the author ShayB
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        I would expect that someone who advertises a free list-building service wouldn't need a $47 list-building product.

        fLufF
        --
        I disagree.

        I know I buy offline products on occasion. Not because I don't know how to prospect/generate leads/etc., but because I'm always open to learn new methods and see what others are doing.
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        • I disagree.

          Well, that's nice, hon.

          I suppose the juxtaposition between the $47 list-building product that wasn't all that and a bag of chips and the FREE FREE list-building product offered in his signature was purely accidental.

          Usually I can believe 5 impossible things before breakfast but I had breakfast already.

          fLufF
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          • Profile picture of the author fin
            Ryan,

            If you want free list building advice, that is much more valuable than $47, head over to "Social Triggers."
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          • Profile picture of the author ShayB
            Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

            I disagree.

            Well, that's nice, hon.

            I suppose the juxtaposition between the $47 list-building product that wasn't all that and a bag of chips and the FREE FREE list-building product offered in his signature was purely accidental.

            Usually I can believe 5 impossible things before breakfast but I had breakfast already.

            fLufF
            --
            LOL Not saying there wasn't an ulterior motive, luv.

            Just saying it's not necessarily the case, is all.
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            My grading system is simple.

            Did the content of the product match what was described on the sales page?

            If the sales pages promises, say, "6 places to promote your list at no cost" and the product does indeed include a list of 6 places, that bullet gets a check mark.

            If the product delivers what it promises to deliver, I got what was promised. It's up to me to determine if what was promised is worth $7, $47, $147 or $1447 - TO ME.

            If I get more than that, hallelujah, raise the roof. If I get less, then did I get enough less to warrant a refund request? And before someone jumps in about giving me a refund and I get to keep the product, spin it around. Even if the product collects digital dust on my HD, you don't have any less product available to sell. Other than me losing a few MB of storage, we're at the 'no harm, no foul' stage.

            Please don't take this as condoning outright refund fraud. I don't, any more than I condone the clods that will eat half of a steak and return the other half for a refund just because the policy allows for it.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
            Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

            I disagree.

            Well, that's nice, hon.

            I suppose the juxtaposition between the $47 list-building product that wasn't all that and a bag of chips and the FREE FREE list-building product offered in his signature was purely accidental.

            Usually I can believe 5 impossible things before breakfast but I had breakfast already.

            fLufF
            --


            Time to put YOU in your place FLUFF...

            So what that he bought a list building product but has a free book on the subject in his signature... what does that prove?

            1) That he's willing to see if he can learn anything else new in his market?

            2) See what other marketers are selling

            3) Market research

            4) Seeing the value of what someone else is selling so he can offer a ton more value for less?

            You have a bad habit of speaking before you think "hon"! and crapping all over others...

            The minute you think you know everything about your niche or that you know everything about online business is the day you may as well close the doors. There is always something to learn about your niche.

            So I suggest you take a step back and think about it... I've seen you pipe up in other posts as well with the same lame brain suggestions (speaking before thinking)...

            Now go have lunch!!!
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          • Profile picture of the author mrjosco
            Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

            I disagree.

            Well, that's nice, hon.

            I suppose the juxtaposition between the $47 list-building product that wasn't all that and a bag of chips and the FREE FREE list-building product offered in his signature was purely accidental.

            Usually I can believe 5 impossible things before breakfast but I had breakfast already.

            fLufF
            --
            Glad to see you took the time to accuse and be negative. I would ask if you are always this cheerful and helpful, but I have seen your posts - I know the answer...

            I would buy a product similar to products I offer for a number of reasons:

            1. To check up on the competition
            2. To improve my skills
            3. To harvest new ideas

            In addition, Some people might actually want to discuss things that are related to the items in their signature. Weird? Not really...

            If I am in IM and I sell a list, then my questions and comments will most likely be related to list building. If I place a related link to my own list building business in my sig, then most of my posts would have a link building sig link along with a list building topic. Is that so strange?

            Perhaps they should spend more time discussing things they aren't interested in? Not everyone has the time to drop unhelpful, unmeaningfull and rude posts in forum topics unrelated to their business.

            Thankfully, for today, I do!
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          • Profile picture of the author theemperor
            Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

            I disagree.

            Well, that's nice, hon.

            I suppose the juxtaposition between the $47 list-building product that wasn't all that and a bag of chips and the FREE FREE list-building product offered in his signature was purely accidental.

            Usually I can believe 5 impossible things before breakfast but I had breakfast already.

            fLufF
            --
            Nice spot. For some reason I never read the sig of an OP - there must be subconscious spam filter in my head!
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        • Profile picture of the author MattWhite
          Originally Posted by ShayRockhold View Post

          I disagree.

          I know I buy offline products on occasion. Not because I don't know how to prospect/generate leads/etc., but because I'm always open to learn new methods and see what others are doing.

          I totally agree. Sometimes I buy products or subscribe to lists just to research or see how others do things.
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          • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
            Banned
            Originally Posted by MattWhite View Post

            I totally agree. Sometimes I buy products or subscribe to lists just to research or see how others do things.
            Same here.

            I actually bought the product because I though I may learn something new, which I didn't.

            But looking back on it, I suppose it did sort of inspire me to begin creating the course I am in the process of creating now.

            So all in all, I am happy I purchased it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kurt
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        I would expect that someone who advertises a free list-building service wouldn't need a $47 list-building product.

        fLufF
        --
        And a classic example of a non-sequetor logical fallacy.

        I'd expect the owner of any list building service, free or paid, to constantly be on the lookout for more info on list building....The only reason not to is if one is a "know it all".
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        • Profile picture of the author ShayB
          Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

          And a classic example of a non-sequetor logical fallacy.

          I'd expect the owner of any list building service, free or paid, to constantly be on the lookout for more info on list building....The only reason not to is if one is a "know it all".
          Yes, exactly my point.
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        • Profile picture of the author fin
          I can't imagine why he would want to learn about other forms of list-building to compliment Facebook:rolleyes:.
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          • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
            Banned
            Originally Posted by fin View Post

            I can't imagine why he would want to learn about other forms of list-building to compliment Facebook:rolleyes:.
            I am sorry but is this some kind of dig at me?

            I would consider myself pretty good at list-building in general. I have two lists of a couple of thousand subscribers that have been built relatively quickly and I have used Facebook to do so. It's actually one of my 'best' list builders.

            I bought the product because at the price of $47 I thought it may have some kind of 'advanced' - or secret, if you will - method inside. Which it never.

            I may have taken your post the wrong way but from my view-point it looks like you are trying to mock me, which I'm not cool with and will express if need be.
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      • Profile picture of the author PatriciaJ
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        I would expect that someone who advertises a free list-building service wouldn't need a $47 list-building product.

        fLufF
        --
        Sorry op but that made me laugh

        For $47 I would expect what was advertised on the sales page and nothing less.
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      • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
        Banned
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        I would expect that someone who advertises a free list-building service wouldn't need a $47 list-building product.

        fLufF
        --
        So just because I know how to build a list of a few thousand subscribers that means that I should stop trying to improve my knowledge? Just be happy with a few thousand?

        Yes, I know how to build a list from scratch for FREE. But it can only go so far. Not to the point I want to reach anyway (10'000+)

        To think, I thought you were a more mature member of the board.
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        • Profile picture of the author Birdi
          there's a saying

          'you get what you pay for' ... so if you buy a pair of shoes for $2 and they break in 1 week expect that... if you buy a pair of shoes for $100 and they last for half your life expect that.

          it's that simple ... the main thing is whatever you pay for you apply what your learning.

          that's my view though

          birdi
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        • Profile picture of the author Chris W. Sutton
          This type of question really comes down to perception.
          Right on the money! How much would you pay for a banana? How much would you pay for a banana if you were starving to death? There are approximately half a million people in this forum. Each one has a different perception of things as seen through the filter of their lives and upbringing.

          I would expect that someone who advertises a free list-building service wouldn't need a $47 list-building product.
          I have to disagree with you fluffycat. I have been in the online income game since 2000 and things have changed over and over and over. I buy stuff all the time because I want to keep up with what is happening RIGHT NOW! Never quit learning!
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      • Profile picture of the author J Bold
        Originally Posted by fluffythewondercat View Post

        I would expect that someone who advertises a free list-building service wouldn't need a $47 list-building product.

        fLufF
        --

        Yes, because nobody could learn anything new about their industry, right? We all know it all about every single we do so need to buy more products that could possibly help us become more of an expert or so we can see if the competition is doing something different.

        Glad you're here to sort that out for us!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben Gordon
    Originally Posted by ryanmilligan View Post

    As a seller I always trying to give my customers twice they value they are paying for. If it was a $7 then they should be willing to pay $14
    I love how everybody thinks they know 'value'. To one customer, the information you provide can be valued at $1,000, whilst to another it could be some garbage piled under 50 feet of crap. The information you're giving benefits everybody differently.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    My expectations would be based on the promises made in the sales letter. Did the product deliver what the seller said it would?

    One time I bought a script for a site. I hoped it had a certain function and the sales letter didn't mention this function. It didn't have it. But I didn't ask for a refund, even though there was a 100% money back guarantee, because the seller lived up to what he promised.
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  • Profile picture of the author robie
    You already has the answer.
    As a seller I always trying to give my customers twice they value they are paying for. If it was a $7 then they should be willing to pay $14 - even though they don't have to, but you get what I mean.
    I would do the same thing
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Not real easy to comment on this without seeing the sales copy and the product. Personally, I'd expect quite a bit for $47, though unless the product was a complete mess I woulnd't ask for a refund. Like John said, if it delivered on the promises made in the ad then you got what you paid for.
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    • Profile picture of the author bobby_shahzad
      Here is a great article that you must read in order to get yourself fast results.

      How to Build a First-Class Email List in 30 Days — from Scratch | Copyblogger
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    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      I agree with the others that have stated it is hard to base an opinion on the information provided.

      This type of question really comes down to perception.

      One with no information on list building could perceive it as brilliant and worth every penny.

      One who has been doing some list building all ready and searching for additional methods could perceive it as a waste of good money spent.


      Terra
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  • Profile picture of the author BloggingPro
    Not that I have bought that many $47 products, but honestly, I look at every informational product that I purchase as reference material more than anything. I bought it, might have learned something, might have found a new technique for an old method, or simply had a fresh perspective placed in front of me.
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  • Profile picture of the author joona
    I am basically looking for only few things:

    - Did the product deliver on those promises made in the sales material?
    - Can I really implement the stuff?

    Often the situation is that the promises are way too big without any backing (*earn 8000 dollars/month with 2 hours of work*-type of stuff) or it works only in a specific field and is not applicable in other niches.

    In those situations I think refund is okay.
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  • Profile picture of the author dillon5
    sounds like youve got the right idea make sure what your selling has good quality for a reasonable price but dont go overboard till the point where your broke lol
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  • Profile picture of the author tpw
    This is an example of one of those weird arguments that happen online.

    People become expert by reading and testing everything out there on a topic.

    Yet people poke you with a stick if they see you are the expert and that you keep reading in your field.

    Some will call you a fake-expert.

    And others will laugh at your willingness to keep learning.

    But those of us who appreciate learning will continue to appreciate the things that you do.

    Sure, it is possible that you were just piking your signature... But then again, you may have just had an honest question.
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  • Profile picture of the author orpaz191
    You can find on this forum wso's for $10, that sells on their main website for $47, you can also find people selling crappy PLR content for $47 on their website so it really more about the product and who wrote it that what the price is...
    Just my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author sofus
    Great questions, and as my father told me: There are no dumb questions – only dumb answers.
    I hope my answers are not dumb.

    Question #1: What do you really expect when buying 'higher-priced' products?

    Personally I do expect "better quality", and my hope is always to pick up some new perspectives that I can implement in my business. If I just find one new angle – I'm happy. But what is "better quality" after all. If I find more than one new angle…or tip, the product is worth every $ if I do go about and implement. If I know all the stuff being teached in the product, I do feel instant stupid for giving away my money…but after five minutes I feel less stupid – thinking "at least I'm not far off with my own knowledge". The seller will never know on what level the buyer is (100%). It's up to me as the buyer to do my homework.

    2. Question #2: If you sell products what do you actually provide for these prices.?

    It's really hard to say what a seller should provide for, like $47. Since the perceived value might differ enormously from one person to the other I do believe the salescopy should clearly address who it's for. There is often "way to much hype" – "look at me and buy now". Not to go out on a long rant, but Mother Teresa said "Give the world the best you have and you may get hurt.
    Give the world the best, anyway". In the warrior forum people expect to get stuff cheap, but I know I have bought a product in here for at least $500. Sometimes a $7 product has given me as much value.

    Thanks for a great post ;-)

    …and well said: Chris W. Sutton
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  • Profile picture of the author paul nicholls
    ive found with list building that you only need a couple of good methods for building your list, once you have those you just scale it up rather than using 25 different methods

    there are lots of "icing on the cake" methods to get traffic to build your list bigger but generally keeping things simple ive found is the best way to go and as i said find 1 or 2 methods that work great for you and just scale them up

    you should be looking at the value of the information which was provided in the course for $47 and if you feel that you personally didnt learn much then maybe you are already a fairly advanced list builder but you just dont know it or dont believe in yourself

    i know of quite a few guys that i could buy list building courses off but i have absolutely no need anymore. I have a great system myself so why would i need to

    i do agree though ryan about trying to give double the value of what they paid for, its a great mindset to have

    paul
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  • Profile picture of the author celente
    what do you mean what do you expect.

    Silly question really!???

    The money is not in what you expect, but what you are going to DO with that info.

    Most listbuilding products are mediocre to brilliant, but even with a mediocre product, if you take action on the info contained you are sure to see some sort of results.

    Ask not what the product can do for you.....BUT ASK.... what you are going to do with the INFO IN THE PRODUCT ITSELF!

    I guess you are starting to see the bigger picture now.

    The reason most newbies do not make money online is they fail to take action on any info. They just sit there day after day reading and doing nothing, telling themselves they will get round to taking action TOMORROW....we all know that tomorrow never comes right. We have all been there. Lets be honest.

    SO read, implement, read, implement.... and do it in that order and you will see some sort of results TEST and then do what keeps working.

    For me, list building totally changed my financial status and life. That is no joke either. It is very bloody powerful in the right hands. So as the nike ad says. JUST DO IT!
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  • Profile picture of the author Ian McMullan
    As a seller I always trying to give my customers twice they value they are paying for. If it was a $7 then they should be willing to pay $14 - even though they don't have to, but you get what I mean.
    I like your philosophy and you are exactly right.
    As i think it was Ben who mentioned, it really depends what the buyer feels is relevant to them and only they can put a value on it.

    If you were selling me a product on SEO for $97 I would probably think I was sticthed. But if you sold me an ebook on 10 simple ways to make money that I felt was doable, then I probably would think it was worth every cent.... and more

    Ian
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    There really isn't much magic when it comes to list building. But if you were to buy a list building course, it would have to be Ewen Chia's Optin Profits.
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  • I paid 2 grand for a bad product almost a decade ago it was horrible I paid more then 2 grand for another one it made me tons of money i never got a refund. I try to commit mentally to make money implementing it and not get a refund I feel that is bad for me since it's a way to derail myself. This approach has helped me move forward and get benefits.
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    soon people... Relax...
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HelpingYouBeAnExpert View Post

      I paid 2 grand for a bad product almost a decade ago it was horrible I paid more then 2 grand for another one it made me tons of money i never got a refund. I try to commit mentally to make money implementing it and not get a refund I feel that is bad for me since it's a way to derail myself. This approach has helped me move forward and get benefits.

      Two grand?! Was it some kind of coaching?
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  • Profile picture of the author Noel Cunningham
    Originally Posted by ryanmilligan View Post

    Well warriors,


    I just purchased a $47 product based on list-building. It contained 6 reports and it was 'OK'. Nothing special, no gems. Things that most people know. I wont ask for a refund because I don't really feel it's fair to do so sometimes and it's only $47, doesn't mean much to me. Anyway the price of the product in relation to the quality got me thinking.

    But the whole point of the thread was to establish, if you are paying $47 or even $27 for something. What do you really expect when buying 'higher-priced' products? It's always been a shady area - at least in my eyes.

    And if you sell products what do you actually provide for these prices.?

    As a seller I always trying to give my customers twice they value they are paying for. If it was a $7 then they should be willing to pay $14 - even though they don't have to, but you get what I mean.
    For $47 I would be expecting quality - even if it wasn't overly long. I'd expect to see an well laid out report probably with a step-by-step video course detailing whats to be done...

    I'd be on the same wavelength as yourself Ryan with regard to selling. I like to over deliver as much as possible, even if it means I make a little less money in the beginning.

    My goal is always to deliver value and get repeat business - not sell something at an over valued price just for the sake of a quick buck...
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Noel Cunningham View Post

      For $47 I would be expecting quality - even if it wasn't overly long. I'd expect to see an well laid out report probably with a step-by-step video course detailing whats to be done...

      I'd be on the same wavelength as yourself Ryan with regard to selling. I like to over deliver as much as possible, even if it means I make a little less money in the beginning.

      My goal is always to deliver value and get repeat business - not sell something at an over valued price just for the sake of a quick buck...
      Couldn't have said it better myself.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cataclysm1987
      Originally Posted by Noel Cunningham View Post

      For $47 I would be expecting quality - even if it wasn't overly long. I'd expect to see an well laid out report probably with a step-by-step video course detailing whats to be done...
      Same here.

      And I would expect to learn at least 2 or 3 strategies for list building I wasn't even aware of.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dann Vicker
    This is not always so...I've read 7 page reports I could gladly have paid $197 bucks for. It's all about perceived value and end results rather than just the "thud factor" or "medium of presentation", for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Dann Vicker View Post

      This is not always so...I've read 7 page reports I could gladly have paid $197 bucks for. It's all about perceived value and end results rather than just the "thud factor" or "medium of presentation", for me.
      I agree with you on this one.

      I've purchased a couple of wso's - just by chance that they were good, I've only ever purchased like 3 - and they were all worth at least 4 times they sold at value.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by ryanmilligan View Post

    As a seller I always trying to give my customers twice they value they are paying for.
    Consider my System Sixty listbuilding volume.

    Let's say you're in a niche where a single sale is worth around five hundred bucks, like custom Camaro exhaust pipes or something. You use that product to build a list of just a couple hundred people. You mail one broadcast to your list and make only five sales.

    That's $2,500 from the product in just a couple weeks.

    What is the product worth?

    Hold that thought.

    What if you're in a niche where a single sale is worth, say, $3.50?

    Now you mail that same size of list and get the same kind of conversion, and you make about $20.

    Now how much is the product worth?

    Funny thing, that.

    It's the same product.

    It got effectively the same results: a couple hundred subscribers and five sales.

    So why is it worth so much more to the first guy than to the second?

    Pricing is not about the product. It is about the customer.

    If you feel that a product cost too much, the problem is not normally that the product isn't worth the money, but that you can't make effective use of the product.

    I have Frank Kern's Mass Control 2. I can't use it effectively. I've tested the waters with it here and there, but even the 4 Day Cash Machine doesn't work well for me.

    That's not because MC2 is a piece of crap. It's because MC2 is the wrong product for me and my business right now.

    Now, that said, some products are crap. Some products will never work effectively for any business, ever. And those are the ones that I tend to say "hey, that's a good reason for a refund."

    But I still derive value from those products: I learn what kind of products will never work, and what kind of arguments will convince me to buy those products.

    Which saves me the entire price of future products, and delivers ROI even without ever actually using the method.

    If you're not getting a solid ROI on your purchases, it is neither the product nor the vendor that is to blame - it is you.

    And until you take responsibility for that reality, and hold yourself accountable to your own purchases, you'll be just another BALBO wondering why you're not rich and famous after all the products you bought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Patrick Batty
    Beauty (or in this case.. value) is in the eyes of the beholder.

    Some people are looking for a single golden nugget, and for that, poissibly $47 is nothing.

    Personally for me I find it a bit difficult to be cut and dry about it.
    But, for an amount like $47.. I usually am looking for some comprehensive step by step, and video based training.

    I'm a visual learner, so the "look over my shoulder" screen capture method of training works very well.

    BTW Ryan. Congratulations for having 2000 people on your list.. I'd venture to guess that about 95% of the members of the Warrior Forum couldn't say the same thing. Well done!
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    • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Patrick Batty View Post

      Beauty (or in this case.. value) is in the eyes of the beholder.

      Some people are looking for a single golden nugget, and for that, poissibly $47 is nothing.

      Personally for me I find it a bit difficult to be cut and dry about it.
      But, for an amount like $47.. I usually am looking for some comprehensive step by step, and video based training.

      I'm a visual learner, so the "look over my shoulder" screen capture method of training works very well.

      BTW Ryan. Congratulations for having 2000 people on your list.. I'd venture to guess that about 95% of the members of the Warrior Forum couldn't say the same thing. Well done!

      Thanks Patrick.

      I've had a huge advantage by starting IM so young though - been at it since I was 14.

      I figure by the time I am twenty one, if I keep progressing the way I am then I could be a millionaire. Just goes to show for all the young people, you don't need to go off to university and have a degree to be successful.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    While $47 is not a lot to many it is a month's worth of food on the table for others. Expectations will vary according to the person's position reading the product.

    For me. If I can find at least one part in the product that can advance my business it is a winner. I have yet to ever ask for a refund. No .. everything I have bought has not helped me move forward.

    Sometimes you have to ask who was the biggest idiot ... the producer or ... you? Well, the producer has my money :-)

    Some things I buy are flawed from step one while others would probably work, just more of a time vamp than I am willing to pay homage to. In the long run though, if I don't implement ... I don't deserve the refund.
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  • Profile picture of the author misstan
    regardless of the price or guru, always check the review first before buying anything. since
    it's nothing special, you should also write a review and let other people now. at the same time you can recommend better product to other people.
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    Advanced list builders, in my opinion, shouldn't be spending money on products.

    You should be spending money on nothing but ads.

    There comes a point when all you can learn about Listbuilding is what you learn from your own metrics.

    You can set up Prosper 202 and track at the keyword level.

    Even if you lose $47 on ads... The data you bought is your advanced Listbuilding training.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shaun OReilly
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Advanced list builders, in my opinion, shouldn't be spending money on products.

      You should be spending money on nothing but ads.

      There comes a point when all you can learn about Listbuilding is what you learn from your own metrics.

      You can set up Prosper 202 and track at the keyword level.

      Even if you lose $47 on ads... The data you bought is your advanced Listbuilding training.
      I disagree.

      I've been list building for over 8 years and I'm still
      open to learning finer distinctions from others.

      Granted, I don't buy most list building courses out
      there and I am very selective in what I buy and who
      I buy it from.

      But I would NEVER stop buying infoproducts on
      list building if I think they would be useful to me.

      A while back, Perry Marshall released an Autoresponder
      Seminar course that contained real gold dust on how to
      do e-mail marketing even more effectively.

      Had I not learned the finer distinctions in that material,
      and leveraged Perry's knowledge and experience, I'd be
      at a disadvantage to competitors who are willing to
      learn and implement those methods.

      As an avid tester and tracker, metrics will give
      you the figures on what works and what doesn't
      work for you and your list.

      However, by continually sharpening the saw, I
      can make better decisions and create better
      campaigns to test in the first place.

      Dedicated to mutual success,

      Shaun
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      • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
        I like reading about your perspective.

        Different strokes for different folks though I guess

        The only products I buy are normally on copywriting and selling, the rest I invest in ads.

        Originally Posted by Shaun OReilly View Post

        I disagree.

        I've been list building for over 8 years and I'm still
        open to learning finer distinctions from others.

        Granted, I don't buy most list building courses out
        there and I am very selective in what I buy and who
        I buy it from.

        But I would NEVER stop buying infoproducts on
        list building if I think they would be useful to me.

        A while back, Perry Marshall released an Autoresponder
        Seminar course that contained real gold dust on how to
        do e-mail marketing even more effectively.

        Had I not learned the finer distinctions in that material,
        and leveraged Perry's knowledge and experience, I'd be
        at a disadvantage to competitors who are willing to
        learn and implement those methods.

        As an avid tester and tracker, metrics will give
        you the figures on what works and what doesn't
        work for you and your list.

        However, by continually sharpening the saw, I
        can make better decisions and create better
        campaigns to test in the first place.

        Dedicated to mutual success,

        Shaun
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        • This thread reminded me of something I wrote about recently, which is that before you buy anything like a $47 list building product, ask yourself what you *already* know!

          Are you putting what you already know into practice?

          If not, which may well be the case if you are looking at $47 list building products, what do you think it will tell you?

          Build a squeeze page?
          Drive traffic to the squeeze page?

          If you think you can guess what it will tell you, how about getting on and applying the techniques you already know!
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    • Profile picture of the author zapseo
      Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

      Advanced list builders, in my opinion, shouldn't be spending money on products.

      You should be spending money on nothing but ads.

      There comes a point when all you can learn about Listbuilding is what you learn from your own metrics.

      You can set up Prosper 202 and track at the keyword level.

      Even if you lose $47 on ads... The data you bought is your advanced Listbuilding training.
      I think both Shaun's & Jason's point of view have validity.

      However, if I were to choose one ... I would prolly go with Jason's. Again, I don't know what those fine points that Shaun learned from Perry were. Maybe I already know them -- maybe I've already intuited them/figured them out myself.

      Why I think Jason's approach might be better is this: email marketing is very context-related.

      Ever hear someone say "that's not for my list" ? That's the context: you, your relationship to your list, etc.

      Understanding and refining that will work best for email marketers because there's a point at which the information gathered by one person's statistics are NOT generalizable to someone else's business.

      But I know a lot of folks are so blinded by any statistical number that they think a 66% improvement in conversions would always be better than, say, 10% conversions. And that's a fallacy. There's insufficient information. But people get blinded by big numbers all the time (even knowing better, I know that I get blinded by them myself.)

      Live JoyFully!

      Judy
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  • Profile picture of the author Premier Plugins
    These days, I wouldn't expect a whole lot from a WSO below $100.

    I mean, the echo'ing advice touted on this very forum is often, "Make it a WSO...", "Take a few hours and make a WSO and sell for $50", etc.

    Quite a few people type up a couple pages and call it a product. No editing, no formatting, no unique graphics and throwing it on the WSO forum for $20-$50. Some people make really great WSOs, but a lot of people have no business making WSOs at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nixgan
    Actually, any scrap of knowledge you gained from anywhere is a bonus. Whether or not they are of good quality, you still get something out of it.

    As for selling products, if your product is good then sell it high priced for all you care. Not to extravagant, it all depends on whether or not your customer profile in your niche can spend a lot.

    After all, there is this saying that if you need 200 buyers of us$10 to reach us$2000, wouldn't it be easier to sell to 20 buyers at a price of us$100, or even to 1 buyer for s$2000?

    It all depends on your confidence of your product and customer profile, work carefully and wing in the cash!

    Wish I helped and all the best to you !
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  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
    I have seen products that are researched and created. I have seen products which are outright fraud -- only a newbie can't tell the difference. For $23 & $37, well-known marketers put up products for sale selling 100 copies of their products which only later tells that the product has been rehashed and researched before being put up. There is nothing new or innovative. Products which are NOT original don't deserve my money. Products which have bugs or are complicated don't deserve my money.

    Someone just putting up 37 different traffic methods after researching will well make money because there is a market. Does not mean I'll buy that S**T because it isn't for me. I'll ask for my money back straight away.

    $20 means a hearty meal for 20 days here. AND $47 means a whole months lunch. YOU can't take that away from me. People put up crap without highlighting who it is for and then crib that they can't be wrong in selling the product when their target market is different.

    If it's a 100% no questions asked satisfaction guarantee, it ought to be that way.

    Usually I don't refund but I recently saw respectable marketers who got a name in the industry selling crap products at vendor marketplaces and I felt crap. Anyone can just put up a product and if you can't tell the difference between a newbie and an advanced marketer, you got no ethical right to sell a product. Enough of my rant.
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    • Profile picture of the author tpw
      Originally Posted by Ronak Shah View Post

      I have seen products that are researched and created. I have seen products which are outright fraud -- only a newbie can't tell the difference. For $23 & $37, well-known marketers put up products for sale selling 100 copies of their products which only later tells that the product has been rehashed and researched before being put up. There is nothing new or innovative. Products which are NOT original don't deserve my money. Products which have bugs or are complicated don't deserve my money.

      Someone just putting up 37 different traffic methods after researching will well make money because there is a market. Does not mean I'll buy that S**T because it isn't for me. I'll ask for my money back straight away.

      $20 means a hearty meal for 20 days here. AND $47 means a whole months lunch. YOU can't take that away from me. People put up crap without highlighting who it is for and then crib that they can't be wrong in selling the product when their target market is different.

      If it's a 100% no questions asked satisfaction guarantee, it ought to be that way.

      Usually I don't refund but I recently saw respectable marketers who got a name in the industry selling crap products at vendor marketplaces and I felt crap. Anyone can just put up a product and if you can't tell the difference between a newbie and an advanced marketer, you got no ethical right to sell a product. Enough of my rant.

      Dude, Give it a rest.

      Uploading the product to BH sites five minutes before demanding a refund does not strike me as the ethical thing to do either, but different strokes for different folks.

      Before you start preaching ethics to others, perhaps you ought to demonstrate some yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Does not mean I'll buy that S**T because it isn't for me. I'll ask for my money back straight away.
        If it isn't for you - why would you buy? If it's not worth buying - why would need to ask for a refund? Because you are curious to see what it is???

        Pots and kettles are getting confused here as Bill pointed out.
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        • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          If it isn't for you - why would you buy? If it's not worth buying - why would need to ask for a refund? Because you are curious to see what it is???

          Pots and kettles are getting confused here as Bill pointed out.
          Kay -- you only get to know whether the product is good, ugly, bad or rehashed when you actually go through it. The quality of products these days is from great to worse.

          When you see the product, you understand that the product is rehashed. Research rehashed content will only be a fool's gimmick. Therefore, it is important to check the quality of product and see whether the product is from a solid "reputable" marketer.

          I've seen reputable names come out with filthy fraudulent products and some of the best people on this thread mistake some of their own customers and react angrily/abusively to every request/text that comes their way -- it may certainly NOT be most certainly you as I'm talking in generic terms. Lets not dive into it. That's not important anyway.

          That's NOT what we're talking here. We're talking about value and value is intrinsic. I really think if the person is satisfied with what has been offered in the product, he/she must NOT refund. If they're not satisfied, he/she should. That's the thumb rule everyone follows.

          We need to focus on the topic.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
        Originally Posted by tpw View Post

        Dude, Give it a rest.

        Uploading the product to BH sites five minutes before demanding a refund does not strike me as the ethical thing to do either, but different strokes for different folks.

        Before you start preaching ethics to others, perhaps you ought to demonstrate some yourself.
        I don't think it's important either to dive into what you say or believe either. Thanks.

        Personal comments and accusations either true or false can go a long way however life is short. Smile a little before you write another comment .
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          It is important - there are only so many facts and methods about list building that actually work. You can't just make up an entirely different scenario to avoid telling people something they've already read.

          When you start noticing frequent "rehashed" info on a topic - it may be a bad WSO but may be a sign you have enough knowledge to stop buying "how to's" on that subject.
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  • Profile picture of the author petelta
    Originally Posted by ryanmilligan View Post

    Just bought a $47 list-building product, what would you expect?
    Expect to learn something that will make you $47+ back. If you can do that, it's worth it.

    $47 isn't a lot of money. You are investing in your business. If you can't spend that much plus another $50 to invest in the process you're about to learn, DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT!!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author AndrewStark
    That price point is a bit strange, it was all the rage about 4 years ago before the credit crunch as everyone put things on the credit card and expected to pay if off with the new knowledge and instant profits.

    Now the market is more mature I buy reports in the sub $10 region and treat them the same way as I treat a magazine. If I read it and enjoy the content I'm happy, and if I pick up a piece of good advice even better. If it's crap I know not to buy from that person again.

    In terms of higher priced items I would be expecting more personal advice, and coaching / mentoring. In terms of listbuilding it would be more about getting a personal review of the marketing funnel, places to buy adverts, and how to set up tracking systems.

    Anyone can write a report about listbuilding that tells you the obvious things, but not many actually explain it. When you read one and something clicks then you have made a connection and found someone who is able to teach you - very powerful, once you know you're own learning style you buy products to suit you.

    For example if you learn best by watching video's don't buy a 115 page pdf guide.

    Lastly if the product sucks don't be afraid to claim your refund.
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  • I personally think that $47 is already pricey enough for an I.M. Report to expect solid info in return, even some quality video tutorials thrown in.
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  • Profile picture of the author eman1
    I have purchased a number of $47 internet marketing products in recent years. Some of them have been worth the investment and some have not. One of the most important things to remember is to research the product. The Warrior Forum is a great place to do product research.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kingshouse
      I think there is still alot to learn about IM

      Different marketers are using even the same strategies DIFFERENTLY.

      If you've been testing and tweaking then you will agree that sometimes it's that one strategy on page 5 used in a certain way that brings you a few thousand dollars and the other pages that you already know don't bring you anything either because you have already used them or don't think they are worth trying.

      It's certainly nice to know what others are doing and what's new.

      No one marketer has monopoly on ideas even if they are making oodles of money. There is still room to make more methinks
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