What payment processing method/provider is safe to use for IM related products?

by Alminc
90 replies
There is an obvious campaign against merchants selling IM related products going on, people come everyday with news like:

" Paypal shut down my account "
" 2CO shut down my account "
" CB won't approve my product "
...etc.

Alertpay is no longer an option, they are practically out of business, according to Brian Kindsvater (and it can be considered a fact).

Government is forcing the banks, and banks are forcing payment processors to stop processing payments for IM related products.

I am personally against scamming people by selling 'push button solutions' and 'magic software' supposed to make you a millionaire overnight. Such products are scams, and I understand why the government wants to stop that insanity.

But now even if you run PLR membership providing monthly PLR content or products with resell rights, or ebooks teaching how to start an online business and make money online, you are likely to be shut down by Paypal, 2CO, etc.

So the question is HOW to continue selling INNOCENT IM related products online without using Paypal, 2CO, CB , Alertpay, etc. for payment processing?

In other words, how to continue running a PLR membership site or selling ebooks/videos on Internet marketing subjects, or selling digital products with resell rights knowing that your account will NOT be shut down?

What options do we have?

WHO wants to process CC payments for such products (despite the ongoing campaign)?


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#method or provider #payment #processing #products #related #safe
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by egoldzone View Post

      I don't get any problem using "PayPal"...
      What are you selling using Paypal? IM related products?
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    • Profile picture of the author princecapri
      Originally Posted by egoldzone View Post

      I don't get any problem using "PayPal"...
      How much are you earning?

      Those that tend to earn a lot, and in short spurts tend to get hit a lot.

      Anyway, this thread is not about 'is Paypal good or not', its about other payment processors. I am interested to hear more on what works, and not debate about why some of them don't work...
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      • Profile picture of the author Alminc
        The actual problem is the future of selling IM related products. After the latest FTC regulation about business opportunities, if you are selling anything that enables others to make money (e.g. resell rights, PLR, and similar) it may be considered a kind of business opportunity by payment processors and they don't want to do business with you (that's how I understand it).

        Recent example: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...nt-closed.html

        What to do?

        How to safely take payments for IM related offers?


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  • Profile picture of the author ryanman
    The game has changed a lot and with it people will have to change as well. You will probably have to re-word your entire sales strategy to make it sound like a method you're teaching instead of something which would make someone x amount of dollars in y amount of time. Or else, there aren't many payment processors who will let you in.
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    ^^^Click The "UGLY BANNER" to "MAKE MONEY"^^^
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  • Profile picture of the author RyanLester
    Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

    There is an obvious campaign against merchants selling IM related products going on, people come everyday with news like:

    " Paypal shut down my account "
    " 2CO shut down my account "
    " CB won't approve my product "
    ...etc.

    Alertpay is no longer an option, they are practically out of business, according to Brian Kindsvater (and it can be considered a fact).

    Government is forcing the banks, and banks are forcing payment processors to stop processing payments for IM related products.

    I am personally against scamming people by selling 'push button solutions' and 'magic software' supposed to make you a millionaire overnight. Such products are scams, and I understand why the government wants to stop that insanity.

    But now even if you run PLR membership providing monthly PLR content or products with resell rights, or ebooks teaching how to start an online business and make money online, you are likely to be shut down by Paypal, 2CO, etc.

    So the question is HOW to continue selling INNOCENT IM related products online without using Paypal, 2CO, CB , Alertpay, etc. for payment processing?

    In other words, how to continue running a PLR membership site or selling ebooks/videos on Internet marketing subjects, or selling digital products with resell rights knowing that your account will NOT be shut down?

    What options do we have?

    WHO wants to process CC payments for such products (despite the ongoing campaign)?


    .
    Can you clarify the term "IM Related Products" ?
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by RyanLester View Post

      Can you clarify the term "IM Related Products" ?

      For example:

      - products that teach how to start/run an IM business including all subtopics
      - products that teach how to make money online
      - ebooks/videos, etc. with private label rights
      - ebooks/videos, etc. with MRR or RR

      IM related products claim to directly or indirectly enable you to start/run an online business and make money online.

      The problem with the new regulations and IM related products:
      When you sell such products you must claim in your sales letter that the product will help people make money (directly or indirectly), otherwise nobody would buy it. The very nature of IM products is in conflict with the latest regulations ( or can be interpreted in that way).

      Even if you completely skip income claims, you still must deliver the essential message to your prospect: " this will make you money" in some way, in order to sell.


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      • Profile picture of the author ryanmilligan
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

        For example:

        - products that teach how to start/run an IM business including all subtopics
        - products that teach how to make money online
        - ebooks/videos, etc. with private label rights
        - ebooks/videos, etc. with MRR or RR

        IM related products claim to directly or indirectly enable you to start/run an online business and make money online.

        The problem with the new regulations and IM related products:
        When you sell such products you must claim in your sales letter that the product will help people make money (directly or indirectly), otherwise nobody would buy it. The very nature of IM products is in conflict with the latest regulations ( or can be interpreted in that way).

        Even if you completely skip income claims, you still must deliver the essential message to your prospect: " this will make you money" in some way, in order to sell.


        .
        I think if we give it time a new proccesor will come along geared specifically towards IM. I could be wrong though; or I could be right.

        Only time will tell. But it does seem like the perfect oppurtunity/risk for someone willing to take it - 'risk' due to the fact if the goverment decide they don't like it, it could be shut down straight away.

        It just goes to show that all these 'black-hatters' at the end of the day are ruining it for us all.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
          I think Dr. Dan spelled it out the best just do what he is doing and you should be ok. And don't let people get you all upset.

          Please stop being nutty and listening to someone else in trouble if you are not.

          I read some of this ruling and there is a group of work at home people out there selling very costly business opportunities and calling them jobs its been going on forever only they're not jobs. They were pointing them out as fake medical billing, envelope stuffing, etc.

          Those people ask for a application up front. To me it looks like the ftc is trying to bring credibilty to this group by forcing them to prove they are an up and up business.

          I read another site that said stay away from claiming amounts made and also have a refund policy but they were talking precautionary.

          Last time the Ftc made a ruling it had something to do with bloggers who made money blogging had to let people know they were affilaites, so we all did it and I don/'t know if it was only the paid to blog folks they were talking about or not to this day.

          Where is the in writing words that say the IM INDUSTRY IS GONE NOW I would like to see this. Are you jumping to conclusions?

          Some others read it and chime in here is the drama necessary or not or did this gentlemans friends just do something wrong?

          I would rework the name of that product of yours tho. Thats a claim of a lot of money people can make.

          I had to rewrite my post as i really got very cranky it just a little over the top don't you think.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alminc
            Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

            YOu are talking like a paranoid person. There are trillions and millions of people doing business online and this is the first I heard that we are all going down.

            Lets see what happens here shall we GOOD HEAVENS.

            Fess up you're scared cause your product sounds scammy and somebody who just lost his account has got you shaking in your boots.

            Somebody did something wrong thats how it always is.

            I think Dr. Dan spelled it out the best just do what he is doing and you should be ok. And don't let people get you all upset.

            FTC Makes new rules every year. I cannot even comprehend what you are saying.

            HUH? WHAT? You have to say your make money product makes money? Well Duh. I will go read this horrify FTC Rule and see what I think.

            Last time they did this everybody torn down their sites over nothing.

            Please stop being nutty and listening to someone else in trouble if you are not.
            Paranoid? Nutty?
            We are talking some facts here.
            Your post is a lot of 'blah blah blah blah' and absolutely nothing useful.

            If you did not understand, the question is:
            Are there safe payment processing solutions for IM related products?

            And what's your contribution to that question?

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            • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
              The answer is NO there are none try to run your business right and you will be fine.


              Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

              Paranoid? Nutty?
              We are talking some facts here.
              Your post is a lot of 'blah blah blah blah' and absolutely nothing useful.

              If you did not understand, the question is:
              Are there safe payment processing solutions for IM related products?

              And what's your contribution to that question?

              .
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              • Profile picture of the author Alminc
                Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

                The answer is NO there are none try to run your business right and you will be fine.
                I didn't ask for your advice on how I should name my products nor how I should run my business. I don't need any general advice of that kind from you, ok? This thread is NOT about you giving such general advices to me.

                If you don't like what's discussed in this thread why don't you just leave it? There are hundreds of other threads where such advices might be appreciated by newbies who still know nothing.
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                • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
                  Sorry if I upset you I don't see the need to apologize twice but I'm not the only one to hav suggested just try to run your business as morally as you can. The other was just facts about the net over the years and the perils of assuming and how it gets out of control . Thats all.

                  Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

                  I didn't ask for your advice on how I should name my products nor how I should run my business. I don't need any general advice of that kind from you, ok? This thread is NOT about you giving such general advices to me.

                  If you don't like what's discussed in this thread why don't you just leave it? There are hundreds of other threads where such advices might be appreciated by newbies who still know nothing.
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  • Profile picture of the author JeremiahSay
    I really don't know if this will work (I'm just merely giving a suggestion which I think will work).. Maybe you can try out other IM payment processor besides CB like JVzoo or Digiresults..

    However they do require you to have a paypal account, so I really don't know if this will work for you.. When you mentioned paypal shutted down your account, is it possible for you to get another account with them using a different credit card?? (I don't know)

    You can try, having JVzoo or DR to be a middleman of your product might work..

    Just a lousy advise but hope it helps..

    Jeremiah
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by JeremiahSay View Post

      I really don't know if this will work (I'm just merely giving a suggestion which I think will work).. Maybe you can try out other IM payment processor besides CB like JVzoo or Digiresults..

      However they do require you to have a paypal account, so I really don't know if this will work for you.. When you mentioned paypal shutted down your account, is it possible for you to get another account with them using a different credit card?? (I don't know)

      You can try, having JVzoo or DR to be a middleman of your product might work..

      Just a lousy advise but hope it helps..

      Jeremiah

      Paypal did not shut down my account... yet. But there are too many such stories and nobody selling IM products should feel safe with Paypal.

      - FTC regulations (affiliate earnings disclosure, testimoanials disclaimer, business opportunities, income claims) make it very hard to sell IM products
      - Payment processors shutting down accounts of people selling IM related products (Paypal, 2CO,..); Tougher CB requirements...

      How to collect payments?


      .
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      • Profile picture of the author jvjoe
        Have you check out fast spring, I am not using it at present but read Warrior Member recommending to other members. check them out if it's okay with you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mantasmo
          Originally Posted by jvjoe View Post

          Have you check out fast spring, I am not using it at present but read Warrior Member recommending to other members. check them out if it's okay with you.
          Fastspring don't allow any products to do with IM: ebooks, memberships, etc.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rukshan
          Originally Posted by jvjoe View Post

          Have you check out fast spring, I am not using it at present but read Warrior Member recommending to other members. check them out if it's okay with you.
          Yeah, Fastspring is a good alternative for 2co. But they don't accept services.
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          • Profile picture of the author RnGWriter
            Originally Posted by Rukshan View Post

            Yeah, Fastspring is a good alternative for 2co. But they don't accept services.
            Fast Spring facilitates the selling and merchandising of digital products while 2co has no such restrictions.
            The most concrete solution in my opinion, to Paypal freezing your account would be to get a trade license and be incorporated. That way the government does not have to worry about you making an untaxed income from a home based business because then you would be eligible to pay corporate taxes. True, home based business would loose its charm but it would be legit.

            Disclaimer: I am not a tax lawyer or any sort of authority figure. My knowledge of tax laws are limited to John Grisham novels and all my opinions are simply speculations.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mohsin Rasool
          Originally Posted by jvjoe View Post

          Have you check out fast spring, I am not using it at present but read Warrior Member recommending to other members. check them out if it's okay with you.
          They do not allow any product which has anything to do with services or SEO.
          I applied with them and they said sorry they do not allow services or SEO ebooks sites!


          --
          Many Warriors have suggested own merchant account, do you know any merchant account provider which cater International merchants?

          Thanks,
          Mohsin
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          • Profile picture of the author Haroon Ballim
            I think what is also important is what system buyers are comfortable with .
            Many buyers will not buy if paypal is not an option.

            So while looking for an alternate option it has to be something that is widely accepted by buyers . Makes finding an alternative to paypal a bit tougher.
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            • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
              thats the truth

              Originally Posted by Haroon Ballim View Post

              I think what is also important is what system buyers are comfortable with .
              Many buyers will not buy if paypal is not an option.

              So while looking for an alternate option it has to be something that is widely accepted by buyers . Makes finding an alternative to paypal a bit tougher.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        e-Junkie isn't a payment processor at all. It's just a product delivery system.

        It's set up to work in conjunction with the vendor's existing account on PayPal, Google Checkout, Authorize.net, TrialPay, ClickBank and/or 2Checkout, but it doesn't handle the money itself.

        Google Checkout can be good, I think - but its terms of service varied greatly from country to country, the last time I looked.

        Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

        Tougher CB requirements...

        How to collect payments?
        ClickBank, and be sure to be FTC-etc compliant? Or Google Checkout?

        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        Is there any reason why IM's can't use CCBill Online Merchant Services & Credit Card Payment Processing They do a lot of high-risk CC processing in the adult industry.
        It'll perhaps be pretty expensive, then?

        (Mind you, ClickBank's also terribly expensive. Nobody's going to use that just for the payment processing facility, without wanting the affiliate facilities, too?)
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          It'll perhaps be pretty expensive, then?

          (Mind you, ClickBank's also terribly expensive. Nobody's going to use that just for the payment processing facility, without wanting the affiliate facilities, too?)
          Correct, it will probably be expensive but for some people here in the WF it may be better than not being able to accept payments at all. Personally, if it comes down to it, I will just go to the bank I deal with here at home and get a real merchant account to use with 1shoppingcart.
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  • Profile picture of the author MBDirect
    Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

    There is an obvious campaign against merchants ...

    Government is forcing the banks, and banks are forcing payment processors to stop processing payments for IM related products.
    .
    Can you say where you got this particular info? Or are you assuming it's true because of the new FTC ruling and its cryptic definitions of being in an online business if you help people make money?

    Certainly could be within the realm of possibility that the government is "forcing banks" because it forced banks to cause the collapse of the US housing market and then turned around and blamed the banks for causing a problem that was actually caused by the government, and this unspeakably destructive practice continues today out-of-control.

    So I am really interested in any backup info you may have seen. The more we know about the "why" the better we can hopefully avoid trouble. Being cancelled by PayPal has got to be paralyzing.

    My only understanding of why PayPal shuts down accounts came from this thread in the WF Main Forum entitled Ban PayPal from Warrior Forum? It's about PayPal having cancelled the accounts of Anthony Aires of Prosperity Publishers. The first post by Jason Parker includes recording of a call from PayPal to Aires and it’s very troubling.

    Astonishingly, the call reveals that Aires has been in perfect compliance with PayPal TOS and had generated over $13K income for them, yet they closed all of his accounts with the explanation that they found him to be high risk. When Aires, whose conduct is meticulous, finally asked the PayPal guy to define the nature of the risk, the guy started stumbling around with statements that people are selling all the “same things” or “nearly identical things” at Warrior Forum and for that reason, PayPal believes the products have no value, which leads to high refund liability as PayPal is liable to return the money even if the vendor’s account and backup bank account always contains the funds to cover it. “We can’t justify keeping this type of business in PayPal” he said, meaning Warrior Forum business.

    Listening to that call, it seemed to me that the PayPal guy was having a mysteriously hard time describing the exact reason for the cancellation policy.

    It's also possible that other pay processors are cancelling accounts due to the high-frequency refund issue that seems to be the central reason. JVZoo has implemented a way for sellers to ban buyers who request refunds from buying their products again. Well I guess that's fine if they're serial refund requesters, but it goes farther. JVZoo also allows Seller A to blacklist and ban from his own list any of Seller B's banned buyers if Seller B has banned at least 3 of them. Oh, and not only that. JVZoo will also do the banning of any seller's buyers if it wants to.

    Any more concrete info, anyone?

    Thanks,
    MBDirect







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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by MBDirect View Post

      Can you say where you got this particular info? Or are you assuming it's true because of the new FTC ruling and its cryptic definitions of being in an online business if you help people make money?
      Brian Kindsvater: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post4817772

      " In a nut, the US government is coming down on the banks, who are coming down on the payment processors, to effectively eliminate processing for making money online offers."

      Also "IM/MMO is being slowly pushed to the backwaters of the net where porn and gambling reside."

      In the light of everything BAD that is happening to merchans selling IM products, my question is:
      1. HOW to continue selling IM related products online without using Paypal, 2CO, CB , Alertpay, etc. for payment processing?

      2. Is IM niche really going to be pushed so hard as porn and gambling? Is it time to totally abandon IM niche (because it's being killed) and sell something else instead?

      .
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    • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
      Originally Posted by MBDirect View Post

      JVZoo has implemented a way for sellers to ban buyers who request refunds from buying their products again. Well I guess that's fine if they're serial refund requesters, but it goes farther. JVZoo also allows Seller A to blacklist and ban from his own list any of Seller B's banned buyers if Seller B has banned at least 3 of them. Oh, and not only that. JVZoo will also do the banning of any seller's buyers if it wants to.

      Thanks,
      MBDirect
      We (The 2 RockStars) Love this feature!

      We just had a huge WF launch for our Place Takeover 2.0 and had a handful of people confused why they couldnt buy our product because they got an error page every-time they clicked our buy button (JV Zoo).

      Because they were banned by other JV Zoo sellers that labeled them as serial refunders or just problem buyers.

      WE LOVE IT!




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  • Profile picture of the author specialized
    This all feels an awful lot (for we Americans anyway) like a suppression of freedom of press/speech by powerful banking interests who hold entirely too much power over the levers of commerce.

    There has been discussion about foregoing processing outfits like PayPal entirely, and using merchant accounts, but my understanding is that a bunch of those also have jumped on the "save all these poor naive people from themselves" meme.

    Maybe it will take a brave merchant account company set up in a non-US/UK/EU jurisdiction to break things up...?
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    First of all, AlertPay are still active. I am not sure why would you say that they are OUT of business.

    Paypal, you can still use them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
    Most of the warriors that have had problems with Paypal have tried to take too much money out at once and then it triggered Paypals limited account or freeze.

    Both my accounts were seasoned and never had a problem collecting lots of payments. But once we had a successful launch where hundreds and thousands of sales came through in hours.... Thats when they limited our accounts.

    I have spoken to many warriors that had their accounts froze or limited and many just took too much money out or transferred too much money at once.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by Dr Dan View Post

      Most of the warriors that have had problems with Paypal have tried to take too much money out at once and then it triggered Paypals limited account or freeze.

      Both my accounts were seasoned and never had a problem collecting lots of payments. But once we had a successful launch where hundreds and thousands of sales came through in hours.... Thats when they limited our accounts.

      I have spoken to many warriors that had their accounts froze or limited and many just took too much money out or transferred too much money at once.
      I know there are big dogs within IM niche using Paypal for almost all their transactions who probably never had problems with Paypal.

      Are they speaking to someone at Paypal and getting some special arrangement?
      Do they know how to handle Paypal in a way we mortals don't know?

      And regarding the sudden spikes of money in/out, how can we know what ammount of money will trigger account freezing in order to prevent it?


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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
        Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

        Are they speaking to someone at Paypal and getting some special arrangement?
        Do they know how to handle Paypal in a way we mortals don't know?

        And regarding the sudden spikes of money in/out, how can we know what amount of money will trigger account freezing in order to prevent it?
        I doubt they are getting any special arrangement from PayPal. The biggest, 'big dog' in IM is really small potatoes to PP.

        And I think those big dogs make as many mistakes with PP as any other marketers. In fact, I have heard through the grapevine, some of the bigger sellers now have reserves held by PP, in lieu of not being able to use PP at all.

        It's speculation, but I think a 'spike' is relative to what kind of sales volume and metrics your account has BEFORE the sales increase occurs.

        So, if you sell say, $500 a week on AVERAGE, ( or even $500 a day) and have have done so for quite awhile and then in a period of 48hours your sales jump to $10K that might be enough to trigger a limit etc.

        Then , this problem may get compounded if you rush to remove most of it in the next 48 hours...at least that seems like one 'problem-causing' scenario. But, there are other factors that could enter it to it as well.

        Personally, I do not think PP wants marketers to know what triggers these actions, and prefers we remain in the dark.
        _____
        Bruce
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      • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
        Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

        I know there are big dogs within IM niche using Paypal for almost all their transactions who probably never had problems with Paypal.

        Are they speaking to someone at Paypal and getting some special arrangement?
        Do they know how to handle Paypal in a way we mortals don't know?

        And regarding the sudden spikes of money in/out, how can we know what ammount of money will trigger account freezing in order to prevent it?


        .
        Not really a special arrangement. They usually go through the same challenges once as well. But eventually either get the frozen account back up by submitting what was asked... Or talking to Paypal directly and having the account restored.

        One of my accounts is still on a rolling reserve of 30% and released in 90 days... The other one is on a 15% rolling reserve for 6 months!

        We are in the process of filing complaints to get the 6 month reserve removed or reduced to 30 days. I will post our results here.

        99% of the information being posted here on the forums about Paypal, and what to do, and not do... is incorrect and hearsay.

        Thats why these threads keep getting closed... cause they go nowhere and keep spreading fear.



        Just relax... focus on bringing in more money... and if Paypal decides to freeze or limit your account... give them what they ask for... and move on...

        If you dont want to deal with Paypal... then you must use a merchant account and cant use JVZoo or WSO Pro.

        But you can use something like Nanacast for your affiliates.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alminc
          Thanks Dr. Dan

          Your posts are useful and I appreciate it.

          I agree that there are many threads about Pypal where people exaggerate and post incomplete or false info.

          The pupose of my OP, though, is not to spread fear, but to find solutions through constructive discussuion.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

            Government is forcing the banks, and banks are forcing payment processors to stop processing payments for IM related products.
            I just don't believe this is true, Alminc.

            I'm always very interested in this subject. I follow every "PayPal thread" here (and sometimes elsewhere) with great interest and usually in great detail, and sometimes with some anxiety, and in everything I've ever read/seen/discussed on this subject (and that's a lot!), I've just never seen any evidence that that's true at all - and I don't think it is.

            Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

            The pupose of my OP, though, is not to spread fear, but to find solutions through constructive discussuion.
            I know it is. I accept that unreservedly, of course. I know you well enough to understand that you want constructive discussion.

            For me, though, the problem is that you're prompting and approaching that constructive discussion with an initial belief that I just don't share. And that really makes it difficult to discuss constructively. I'm not trying to criticise the thread (nor you for starting it!). I'm "just saying" ...
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Dr Dan View Post

          99% of the information being posted here on the forums about Paypal, and what to do, and not do... is incorrect and hearsay.
          Even when it's based on fact, the rules for what triggers an alert or a review are very complicated.

          Then you get human beings involved, and it just turns into a massive clusterhump like the Anthony Aires call to PayPal support.

          The most anyone can do is say "this is what happened to me." And if nothing has happened to you, all you can say is "this is what so-and-so says happened to him."

          And you compare notes, but when you come right down to it nobody's giving an accurate account - because they want you to think what they think. They cherry-pick what they tell you, and "spin" the report some direction or another, and conveniently omit the parts where they were clearly wrong.

          Which you can't help. It's not evil or unethical or deceitful; that's just how people work. Anthony Aires remembers the call one way, and the support rep remembers it another way, and everyone who listens to it will remember it an entirely different way.

          Which is why most people are complaining about the tantrum the PayPal rep throws toward the end - they want PayPal to be in the wrong, and they find what they're looking for.

          Similarly, I found what I was looking for, too: I heard the support rep say the decision was final and would not be changed, and his job was to help Anthony understand why.

          So there are two very different views of this. You've got one side where PayPal is refusing to listen and not telling the whole story until finally the rep just loses it because PayPal hates Warriors, and then you have my side where a customer spent twenty minutes arguing with someone that didn't have the authority to make a decision and recorded it so he could embarrass the company.

          Which one of those is true? Well, I'm pretty sure mine is... but everyone else is pretty sure theirs is, too. And you can save half an hour of your life by just accepting that you'll come out the other end of the recording believing pretty much what you already believe.

          Life is like that. Yeah.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Dr Dan
    Now we never transfer or take out more than $3,000 per day too be safe.

    The other problem here on the forums... is that warriors will get froze or limited on their Paypal accounts... and then post about how it happened for no reason.

    But then a few months later... they will admit during a conversation that they tried to take too much money out at once... like $20,000 in 24 hours or something like that.

    But they never post that on the forum.... So people think that Paypal is out to get them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    This is off topic now. Not really answering the question.

    There have been many seasoned accounts closed by Paypal. So I for one would like to know if anyone has a solution.

    I have had my PP account since 2002 and process high 5 and low six figures a year since 2005. I follow the rules but I don't discount the idea that they could shut me down anytime.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

      So I for one would like to know if anyone has a solution.
      Me too. That's why I started this thread - to ask 'Is there a solution?'
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  • Profile picture of the author Ashley C
    I've heard good things about e-Junkie, although I don't know if it's just incorporated with one of the big payment processors or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    E-junlies, JVZoo, Warrior Plus, Digiresults, iDavi, DAP. RAP, etc are not payment processors. They are affiliate management systems / marketplaces / product management platforms. They still shunt you through Paypal, 2CO and or Clickbank etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

      E-junlies, JVZoo, Warrior Plus, Digiresults, iDavi, DAP. RAP, etc are not payment processors. They are affiliate management systems / marketplaces / product management platforms. They still shunt you through Paypal, 2CO and or Clickbank etc.

      Correct!

      What we need is payment processing solution that allows selling IM related products, so that we don't have to fear our accounts being frozen or completely shut.

      I'm sure there are safe solutions, only we don't know about them.

      Some people recommend using merchant account in combination with some payment gateways/processors, but I'm totally ignorant about how that can be the solution for this specific problem. I never used merchant account and I don't know how that whole blody thing works.

      Is there anybody here who knows the details, what to do and how is that safe?

      .
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  • Profile picture of the author jdkesler
    Is it possible to get your own merchant account and funnel the payment processing through that? There are many merchant account processors available.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Joseph
    Hi Alminc,

    I'd suggest you check out 1shoppingcart or even infusionsoft.

    All the best with your situation!
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    "Success comes when people act together; failure tends to happen alone." -- Deepak Chopra

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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by Jonathan Joseph View Post

      Hi Alminc,

      I'd suggest you check out 1shoppingcart or even infusionsoft.

      All the best with your situation!

      Exactly HOW would 1shoppingcart or infusionsoft solve the problem that we are discussing here?
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    Is there any reason why IM's can't use CCBill Online Merchant Services & Credit Card Payment Processing They do a lot of high-risk CC processing in the adult industry.
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  • Profile picture of the author handheldgpsreviews
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
      Originally Posted by handheldgpsreviews View Post

      Aletpay is still active
      It depends what you mean by "active". They still exist but they can't actually process credit-card payments. What use is an "active" payment processor that can't process credit-card payments from your customers?

      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5580761
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

    There is an obvious campaign against merchants selling IM related products
    No, there is not.

    There is, however, a campaign against fly-by-night businesses.

    And if you are running a fly-by-night business, a large part of getting away with it is lying your arse off and pretending to be a legitimate business which was unfairly targeted.

    If you were about to get on a plane with a bomb in your pants, and the TSA folks asked you to kindly step out of line as part of a "random check," your single best chance of getting that bomb on the plane is to make a scene about how you're being unfairly profiled, hoping the TSA officials will become embarrassed and say "um, well, uh... never mind."

    And then your plane would blow up, and everyone would go "OMFG, how ironic, there really was a bomb on that plane... and TSA is so damned incompetent they were picking on that innocent man instead of the actual terrorist."


    But when you run a fraudulent business selling worthless crap, there's no plane blowing up to make people suspicious of the coincidence. So you get to rant about how unfair the world is, and everyone loves an underdog, so you'll get extra help and support from honest business owners because oh you poor thing.

    This doesn't mean there aren't innocent victims. There are. But the guilty will spare no effort to convince you that they're innocent, too.
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      No, there is not.

      There is, however, a campaign against fly-by-night businesses.
      Typical product that IS fly-by-night, fraudulent business selling worthless crap is for example :
      'I developed the SECRET SYSTEM (or SOFTWARE) that enables me to get 250,897 LASER TARGETED unique visitors per month and makes me AT LEAST $18,278.67 each week on COMPLETE AUTOPILOT. It's easy as 1-2-3 and now even YOU can benefit from it... EVEN IF YOU ARE DEAD! "
      A regular PLR membership site that has been around for 1 year or longer is not 'push button solution' or fly-by-night business.
      Websites selling products with resell rights or master resell rights doesn't fall into that 'RED' category either.
      Neither those who are seling ebooks/courses on how to build an online business from home using regular IM methods are 'RED'.

      Owners of such businesses have invested a lot of time, money and efforts to build some reputation and acquire members/customers.

      But even such businesses can be easily categorised as 'business opportunity' or 'selling products without value' and thrown out by payment processors, and that's what is happening.

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

        But even such businesses can be easily categorised as 'business opportunity' or 'selling products without value' and thrown out by payment processors, and that's what is happening.
        Which, unfortunately, is what "fly-by-night" means.

        fly-by-night - Wiktionary

        "The phrase implies that the quality of work done or goods sold is shoddy enough that the person responsible must leave town under cover of darkness to evade angry customers, or sometimes legal authorities."
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        "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
        Paypal closed a legitimate master resell rights co a long time ago before the ftc rulings you are claiming are bringing the whole im industry down. It was due to ONE site he had up that said "GET RICH" on it according to him.

        This is nothing new. Yes all of us can become a victim until another help rises up but there isn't one so we all do our best to help each other to go on in the circumstances we are in,

        thats what you have to do right now.

        I promise you when the answer comes you'll know.

        this how rumors turn into nighmares. You are claiming the ftc rulings have something to do with the companies closing people down. But its just a claim where is your proof? we have all seen this same thing happen for the last 18 years. Its something we live with and not a new phenomenon as you are insinuating.

        Sorry about the rant which I tried to rewrite calmly but imho you're taking this just a bit too far.

        Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

        Typical product that IS fly-by-night, fraudulent business selling worthless crap is for example :
        'I developed the SECRET SYSTEM (or SOFTWARE) that enables me to get 250,897 LASER TARGETED unique visitors per month and makes me AT LEAST $18,278.67 each week on COMPLETE AUTOPILOT. It's easy as 1-2-3 and now even YOU can benefit from it... EVEN IF YOU ARE DEAD! "
        A regular PLR membership site that has been around for 1 year or longer is not 'push button solution' or fly-by-night business.
        Websites selling products with resell rights or master resell rights doesn't fall into that 'RED' category either.
        Neither those who are seling ebooks/courses on how to build an online business from home using regular IM methods are 'RED'.

        Owners of such businesses have invested a lot of time, money and efforts to build some reputation and acquire members/customers.

        But even such businesses can be easily categorised as 'business opportunity' or 'selling products without value' and thrown out by payment processors, and that's what is happening.

        .
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Myers
    Have you check out fast spring, I am not using it at present but read Warrior Member recommending to other members. check them out if it's okay with you.
    FastSpring does not support PLR products.


    Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author iuditg
    As long as you are running a legit business you will be fine with paypal. Just provide all sorts of details that paypal needs for verification and whenever you are launching a new product and you are expecting huge amount of income flow, give them a call and inform them about that.

    I do this for all my projects. Been using paypal since 2 years, never had a shut down or any other problem.

    Just make sure you are 100% legit
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  • Profile picture of the author IMHunter
    I use 2checkout. I have heard good things about Plimus too.
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

    Paranoid? Nutty?
    We are talking some facts here.
    Excuse me.


    Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

    There is an obvious campaign against merchants selling IM related products going on

    ...

    Government is forcing the banks, and banks are forcing payment processors to stop processing payments for IM related products.
    That is paranoid garbage and anyone with half a brain in their head knows it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alminc
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Excuse me.




      That is paranoid garbage and anyone with half a brain in their head knows it.

      Those with half a brain in their heads have always been shooting the messenger who comes with bad news.

      However, those with the whole brain in their heads have always been looking at the facts and using their brains to find best solutions.

      Brian Kindsvater: 5+ Year 2Checkout.com Account CLOSED!!

      Bryan, there was another thread a few months regarding Plimus doing the same thing that had useful information.

      There were more threads regarding PayPal telling some Warriors their payment processing for IM may not be happening in the future.

      Alert Pay has been crippled by the banks. How many TOS changes has ClickBank made this year?

      In a nut, the US government is coming down on the banks, who are coming down on the payment processors, to effectively eliminate processing for making money online offers.

      There is simply too much fraud.

      There is no barrier to entry, it is all digital without mailings to physical addresses, there is no storefront to deal with a seller in person, there is an inability to police a growing stream of bogus claims and sites that steal people's money.

      It has nothing to do with you, how much money you have made 2Checkout, whether you have had zero complaints, etc.

      The powers that be are tired of playing whack-a-mole with fraudsters. It is easier to choke off the entire category.

      IM/MMO is being slowly pushed to the backwaters of the net where porn and gambling reside.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

        However, those with the whole brain in their heads have always been looking at the facts and using their brains to find best solutions.
        Fact 1: There is no obvious campaign.

        Fact 2: There is no forcing of banks.

        Fact 3: "Make Money Online" is not the same as "IM related."

        Banks are, indeed, being pressured to reduce fraud. They are, indeed, pressuring payment processors to do the same.

        But this is not a campaign against IM. It is a campaign against fraud.

        It is a campaign against people who hide their identity from customers, because we have never in the entire history of this Goddamn country allowed anyone to do business that way.

        And if you back up all the way to my first post in this thread, that is precisely what I have been saying all along.

        It's not IM they're after, it's the fly-by-night companies who try to conceal who they are and where they are while they sell worthless garbage until the authorities start going "hey, you appear not to exist, and your product appears to be an old banana peel stuffed in a Doritos bag, and also what the f#!k."
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        • Profile picture of the author Alminc
          Pressured, forced... seems almost same to me, but I might be using the word 'forced' wrong since English is not my native language. I meant 'pressured'.

          I also agree with your statement that the campaign is against fraud.

          But in that process, many IM related businesses such as PLR, resell rights, ebooks/courses teaching online business and how to make money online, etc. are being declared 'high risk', 'no value' and similar, by payment processors.

          I'd like to come back to the original question.

          What payment processors are now safe to use for these types of products?


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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

            Pressured, forced... seems almost same to me
            They're pretty similar, in this context, and I think nobody misunderstood you on this point.

            The problem here, for me, is that apparently "IM products" and "fraud" also seem almost the same to you. And on that basis, constructive discussion is really difficult.

            It seems to me that governmental and quasi-autonomous regulatory agencies, and banks and financial instutitons are gradually trying to deal with fraud, deceptive sales pages and unlawful income claims.

            That's a totally different matter, in principle, from "IM products".

            It's also something we should all welcome, both in and of itself, and because the honest people among us will be the collective beneficiaries of doing so.

            Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

            many IM related businesses such as PLR, resell rights, ebooks/courses teaching online business and how to make money online, etc. are being declared 'high risk', 'no value' and similar, by payment processors.
            I don't agree with this characterisation of what's happening at all.

            I think that even while you're saying that you do acknowledge the difference between deception and IM products, you're actually still confusing several different things, and lumping them all together in a way that the credit-card processors don't.

            I haven't seen any financial institution "declaring IM products as being high risk".

            Your premises are simply factually incorrect, in my opinion.

            Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

            What payment processors are now safe to use for these types of products?.
            PayPal is, for the products that don't contravene their terms of service.

            For others, Google Checkout seems to be.

            Maybe others mentioned, such as CCBill, iBill, and so on (though they're more expensive) are perfectly safe.

            ClickBank is also perfectly safe, for anything they'll approve. They're still incredibly lax; they're still accepting things which appear to me to be nowhere near FTC-complaint. And what ClickBank won't approve, you wouldn't want to sell anywhere, anyway. Not without taking all sorts of risks, including loss of business and potential criminal prosecution.

            So the answer to your question is probably "PayPal, ClickBank, Google Checkout, CCBill, iBill and others." That's simple enough, I think?
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            • Profile picture of the author Alminc
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              They're pretty similar, in this context, and I think nobody misunderstood you on this point.
              See post #60. I's not about 'misunderstanding' me, it's about pointing to that word in order to prove me wrong, and then saying the exact same thing as I said, using the word 'pressure' instead.

              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post


              The problem here, for me, is that apparently "IM products" and "fraud" also seem almost the same to you.
              Not to me.

              I very well understand the difference, and to me fighting fraud is a good thing. But when for example 2CO refuses to do business with PLR membership sites (and PLR products in general) because they now fall into category (or 'product code' , whatever they call it) that they no longer can approve, then what to say and what to think?

              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              And on that basis, constructive discussion is really difficult.
              My main question was very, very simple and clear from the very beginning, and for all those who want to discuss it in a constructive manner (looking for best solutions) it's pretty easy to do it.

              It becomes difficult when someone doesn't want to contribute with constructive suggestions, but instead is digressing into something else out of reasons that are only known to that person.

              Apart from the above, I can thank you for a couple of concrete suggestions (even if I'm fully aware of the irony in 'That's simple enough, I think?').

              I really have no time nor inclination to argue with anybody about questions that are digressing from what I asked at the beginning.

              If some people have devoted their lifes to proving others wrong on Warrior forum and demonstrating their superiority in every question, be it relevant or not, it doesn't mean that I'm interested in the same.

              Have a good day.

              .
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              • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

                when for example 2CO refuses to do business with PLR membership sites (and PLR products in general) because they now fall into category (or 'product code' , whatever they call it) that they no longer can approve, then what to say and what to think?
                Well, I think it doesn't help to say that they won't do business with IM products. One of their representatives actually posted here earlier today, in a different thread, I think, to point out that that isn't so.

                Ezine Articles also won't allow PLR to be mentioned in articles submitted there, and won't accept resource-box links to sites endorsing PLR, but it doesn't mean they won't have anything to do with "IM". It means that PLR, specifically, gives some people/businesses problems.

                Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

                Apart from the above, I can thank you for a couple of concrete suggestions
                You're welcome.

                Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

                even if I'm fully aware of the irony in 'That's simple enough, I think?'.
                No irony was intended, but I do see that this wasn't clear and I regret the wording I used. Sorry!
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              • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
                Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

                See post #60. I's not about 'misunderstanding' me, it's about pointing to that word in order to prove me wrong, and then saying the exact same thing as I said, using the word 'pressure' instead.
                Actually, it's about the simple fact that the word Brian Kindsvater used in his post - the one you used as evidence - was "pressured" and then you used the word "forced."

                However.

                The nouns "force" and "pressure" mean damn near the same thing. If you apply force, you are pretty much by definition applying pressure. The "force of law" is, actually, pressure applied by the law. A "police force" applies, well, police pressure.

                I can think of only one instance where the words "force" and "pressure" are not synonymous in the noun sense, and that is when I consider the possibility of Obi-Wan Kenobi teaching Luke Skywalker to use the Pressure. (Athough I imagine that would probably have involved a Billy Joel song and a badass dream-sequence montage, which would actually be pretty cool.)

                It is when you use the verbs "force" and "pressure" that a subtlety creeps into the matter. If you are forced, this is about coercion, usually by violence or the threat of violence; if you are pressured, this is about persuasion and manipulation. There are similarities, but most saliently "force" implies being told exactly what to do... while "pressure" implies being given a goal which may be solved in any way desired.

                Anyone who does not speak English as their first language can, I think, be forgiven if they don't intuitively grasp this subtlety. I personally never even considered that English might not be Alminc's first language, because he speaks it excellently. I'd be hard pressed to say more than a few obscenities and some Karamell lyrics in Swedish.

                But when for example 2CO refuses to do business with PLR membership sites
                What confounds me is that PayPal is not doing any such thing. PayPal will pretty much give an account to anyone, no approval or verification required, and just limit your ability to use it until you attach a bank account or credit card to it.

                The reason we hear so many horror stories about PayPal is that pretty much everybody is using PayPal. You know how you're sitting here saying that PayPal isn't safe for IM products?

                WSO Pro, JVZoo, MooshPay, and DigiResults all internally use PayPal.

                Every single product on them is processing PayPal. All of them. Every sale. Every dime trading hands on those networks is through PayPal. The few high-profile cases we're seeing where people got their accounts closed don't even begin to register next to the money passing through PayPal for IM products.

                Through WSO Pro alone, that's over $31 million.

                What PayPal is cracking down on is a series of behaviours, not a class of products. They don't have a problem with PLR or resale rights. What they have a problem with is selling PLR and resale rights... because they're PLR and resale rights.

                There's a whole class of people who don't understand this at all. And that's the problem - PayPal isn't. Your fundamental thesis, that PayPal is a bad payment processor for IM products, is flawed. You're asking for the answer to an incorrect question.

                It's like asking what brand of car you should buy now that Saab is only making fighter jets. Even if you stomp around complaining that people aren't answering the question of what car to buy instead of a Saab, the fundamental issue is that you just told everybody not to buy Saab anymore because of some crap you don't entirely understand.

                (Saab automobiles are produced by Swedish Automobile, having acquired the brand from General Motors in the mid-1990s, who in turn acquired the brand from Saab AB a few years earlier. Saab AB does, in fact, primarily make fighter jets and no longer produces automobiles - but the concern about availability of Saab automobiles comes from their impending bankruptcy, not Saab AB's 20-year old decision to get out of the car business.)
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  • Profile picture of the author AlexMcLeod
    My first thought when reading this thread was "why don't I become a payment processor..."

    Then I Googled what is required of them. Sheesh. Worst idea ever.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    Part of the issue is that PayPal doesn't come out and say exactly what they think you are doing wrong. They may also label you as an MLM or of "No Value" by one reviewers definition. It can vary from one reviewer to another.

    This causes a lot of anxiety for merchants when they see threads like "PayPal closed my account".

    So I am still watching this thread with interest but I think the answer is "no there isn't" at this time.

    So we continue to plug away and deal with it if or when it happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author erichammer
    This may sound a little bizarre to some people, but it seems to me that there is an industry which has had a much tougher time with getting credit cards processed than our own. I refer of course to the porn industry, which has long suffered from many of the problems now becoming associated with IM (refund requests, chargebacks, etc.). Look and see which credit card processors take payments for porn sites and you'll find places that should be perfectly comfortable assuming the same risks for IM people.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicolelwriting
    I think that if Paypal or other type of payment processors aren't working out for you then I agree with the others that the best idea is to look into a merchant processing program. I admit that Paypal is one of the top most recognizable payment processors available. So if there is any way to offer that as an option it would help your business. I hope that you will be able to find the best option for your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author melleni
    I use https://www.zombaio.com/index.asp with a site that would be considered high risk the rates are quite low and they have daily payouts
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  • Profile picture of the author Pawprints34
    Zombaio looks interesting but their application says they are only for "adult membership services". It doesn't sound like they would accept IM related merchants...

    Someone earlier mentioned CCBill.com.... while I haven't had anything to do with them I have been having a look at their website and they seem fairly inclined towards digital products including memberships, subscriptions and digital downloads....might be worth checking out?
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    • Profile picture of the author melleni
      Originally Posted by MikeAnders View Post

      Zombaio looks interesting but their application says they are only for "adult membership services". It doesn't sound like they would accept IM related merchants...

      Someone earlier mentioned CCBill.com.... while I haven't had anything to do with them I have been having a look at their website and they seem fairly inclined towards digital products including memberships, subscriptions and digital downloads....might be worth checking out?
      I sell a dating ebook on Zombaio but I will send a question to their support and see if they would accept im related products
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  • Profile picture of the author geekology
    If you have a genuine product and not a get-quick-rich scheme, any and all payment processors are safe. Problems arise when you try to push a mediocre product and start getting lots of refund/charge-backs.

    Here are some tips from me -

    1. Good product is a must.
    2. Read the do's and dont's of your payment processor carefully. (Things like not checking your PayPal account from an unsupported country or a different country where have first opened the account. In case you are traveling let them know beforehand.)
    3. In case you're expecting a lot of money in a short amount of time try to tell PayPal/payment processors in advance.
    4. Try to have a business PayPal account instead of just a premier account.
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  • Profile picture of the author savyeman
    What don't you try infusion soft.....

    Or set up an independent merchant account
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  • Profile picture of the author facebook marketer
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Alminc View Post

    There is an obvious campaign against merchants selling IM related products going on, people come everyday with news like:

    " Paypal shut down my account "
    " 2CO shut down my account "
    " CB won't approve my product "
    ...etc.

    Alertpay is no longer an option, they are practically out of business, according to Brian Kindsvater (and it can be considered a fact).

    Government is forcing the banks, and banks are forcing payment processors to stop processing payments for IM related products.

    I am personally against scamming people by selling 'push button solutions' and 'magic software' supposed to make you a millionaire overnight. Such products are scams, and I understand why the government wants to stop that insanity.

    But now even if you run PLR membership providing monthly PLR content or products with resell rights, or ebooks teaching how to start an online business and make money online, you are likely to be shut down by Paypal, 2CO, etc.

    So the question is HOW to continue selling INNOCENT IM related products online without using Paypal, 2CO, CB , Alertpay, etc. for payment processing?

    In other words, how to continue running a PLR membership site or selling ebooks/videos on Internet marketing subjects, or selling digital products with resell rights knowing that your account will NOT be shut down?

    What options do we have?

    WHO wants to process CC payments for such products (despite the ongoing campaign)?


    .
    Moneybookers is the best...
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  • Try Powerpay
    Signature
    soon people... Relax...
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  • Profile picture of the author Della111
    Banned
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
      Originally Posted by Della111 View Post

      I really don't know if this will work (I'm just merely giving a suggestion which I think will work).. Maybe you can try out other IM payment processor besides CB like JVzoo or Digiresults..
      No. Trying to get that post count up eh?
      http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post5894769
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      • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
        Rather then try to find another payment processor which is rediculous because you lose your following who like paypal and also will never get another following who trust your current payment processor read this advice which just surfaced. (edit: Actually it didn't just surface but someone mentioned it on a recent thread)

        This should help anyone with a paypal account.

        http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-problems.html
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        • Profile picture of the author Severin
          Banned
          I think Claire makes a very valid point, Paypal may suck in our eyes as the vendor, but for the customer and consumer thay see it is a convenient, safe and easy way to buy online. I would be loathe to ignore that fact and try to use another processor.

          There's no doubt that many people have and do have problems with PP and a safer and more stable alternative is much needed but at the moment there ain't one, so as long as you keep them informed, play within the rules and are sensible with your business you've not got too much to worry about.

          Originally Posted by Claire Koch View Post

          Rather then try to find another payment processor which is rediculous because you lose your following who like paypal and also will never get another following who trust your current payment processor read this advice which just surfaced. (edit: Actually it didn't just surface but someone mentioned it on a recent thread)

          This should help anyone with a paypal account.

          http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-problems.html
          I try not to subscribe to all the fear but I must admit 30% for 90 days sends shivers up my spine.
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  • Profile picture of the author frlane
    There are other solutions, but they are not as simple and elegant like PayPal. We had a diet sight processing about 15k per month. One day Paypal shut down the account with no notice. It took a month to get another processor up, and it kind of sucks.

    Basically we now have an off-shore merchant account processed through authorize.net. It's also more expensive.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    I attended a seminar with John Rhodes on PowerPay. I also heard about WePay. Does anyone have experience with those payment processors? When we became more successful, PayPal imposed a large reserve and a rolling 90 day 30% reserve. It almost completely destroyed our company, but we adapted and are looking for alternatives because 30% does hurt a lot.
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  • Profile picture of the author IMSince2003
    Still wondering about this one. Has anyone used WePay or PowerPay? WePay says on their TOS that they will never lock up accounts or take your money in reserve. It's on their site.
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    • Profile picture of the author AeroBuilders
      Anyone using Merchantinc ?

      - paypal alternative with fees at 1.99% + $.025 - funds transfered to your acct in 3 days after sale (direct deposited).
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      Seeking JV partners for Forex Trading products

      Forex Trader & Trade System Builder / Health & Wellness Expert / Sport Aircraft Builder

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  • Profile picture of the author DanMurray
    If possible...stay away from paypal they WILL shut down your account if you bring in a large amount of money quickly or they see your business ans not providing any value to the consumer. Which in PayPals books means practically any business in the world!

    Use it if you have to...but otherwise stay well clear.

    Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author PaymentMaven
    Lotta angst in this post.

    All merchant account providers, including 3rd party like PayPal, don't want to lose money.

    Here's a scenario...
    - a buyer buys a product online with credit/debit or PayPal acct, then downloads it immediately.
    - The seller gets paid in a couple days.
    - The seller withdraws $$ from his acct.
    - Let's say it is a lousy product and 10-35% of buyers want a refund.
    - The seller already withdrew $$ so doesn't have enough to cover the refunds.
    - The buyers get angry and call their credit card company or PP, and complain. This leads to a chargeback.
    - However, since the seller doesn't have enough cash to refund, the bank or PP must cover the refund themselves and are not happy.

    Therefore, the underwriters at merchant account providers and PP don't want lousy products that promise a gazillion $$$ in 10 days by simply pushing a button. They often label all IM products as 'get rich quick' and refuse to accept them or charge high rates with 10-30% reserves.

    For a number of years I have been a merchant account no-fee broker (USA and offshore providers including PowerPay, Signature Card Services, Cocard, Fidelity, Frontstream, & Prestige Payment). Providers that used to accept IM no longer do. In fact, they will drop IM merchants. As a result, I have had to find new providers that will accept IM. And in order to play it safe, my clients get two merchant accounts to spread the risk.

    Paul in Los Angeles
    Signature

    Payment Maven Credit Card Sales Processing
    "See how to Improve your cash flow & peace of mind...guaranteed"

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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by PaymentMaven View Post

      - The buyers get angry and call their credit card company or PP, and complain. This leads to a chargeback.
      Clarifying something here.

      If the buyer paid from his PayPal balance, his contact with PayPal is in the form of a dispute. Not a chargeback.

      If the product is digital, or the purchase was for a service, then the customer is not entitled to buyer protection and loses the dispute. However, the vendor must respond to the dispute with this information.

      But if you lose the dispute and PayPal issue the refund, this will give you a negative PayPal balance and render your account effectively worthless until the debt is paid. The same will happen if you issue the refund voluntarily; if you need to pay your web server bill, make a sale just before your account gets suspended, and rapidly throw some or all of the money at your web host only to get a refund request within minutes (undoubtedly from some ******* serial refunder, and certainly not from someone discovering your product is worthless crap)... you can still hit the refund button, and the customer will still get all his money back.

      If, however, he used a credit/debit card or direct transfer from a bank account - whether as the primary or backup funding source - then a dispute may be filed with the bank.

      The bank usually responds by giving back the customer's money (less any personal liability for the situation, which is generally zero these days), and charging PayPal a fee of up to $30 for letting scammers and dicks use their service.

      That is what PayPal hates. That is what they are trying to avoid.

      Shuffling money around within PayPal is fine. They don't mind that. It's trivial. You can do that all day long and they don't care.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author NickMarks
    You say, PLR membership site, if your looking to setup a rebill, I would not recommend using ANY 3rd party merchant at this time. Unless you understand, that it will probably get shut down as some point.

    You need your own merchant account to run rebills. Plain and simple.. Yes it's more work. But with it, you get to KEEP your members in your OWN system, billing on your merchant.

    Merchant accounts have guidelines too (of course). You need to keep up with refunds and stay under 1% chargeback rate (2% overseas).

    As far as merchants in the IM/biz opp niche. It's only going to get more difficult. So you should setup your own merchant account NOW before it gets more difficult.

    I would recommend setting up a US MID (merchant account) and an overseas MID. Don't process more then $50K per MID.

    If you run a business that's say $10K a month, put $5K on one merchant and $5K on the other.

    The most important thing with merchant accounts, is to be consistent. So the load balance can help with that. And it can also help with your chargeback rates too.
    Signature

    Nick Marks is an author, speaker and was announced as the Internet Marketer Of The Year 2007 by Russell Brunson & DotComSecrets.

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  • Profile picture of the author johnpetrov
    You have 2 options:

    1) Find an "IPSP" Internet Payment Service Provider that will process your sales
    2) Find an acquiring bank and open a merchant account


    Here are a couple of IPSPs that might accept your high risk business:

    Online Merchant Services & Credit Card Payment Processing
    www.epoch.com
    www.asurepay.cc
    www.dalpay.com
    Online Payment in China,Internet Payment Solutions for Credit and Debit Card Processing -globebill
    www.alipay.com
    Paymentwall - The All-in-One Monetization Suite
    The #1 Affiliate and Seller Marketplace - Clicksure
    CommerceGate
    Sell Online, Ecommerce Software, Affiliate Network | Plimus
    RegNow | Electronic Software Distribution - Shareware Marketing - Shareware Distribution
    iPortis.com - Shareware Registration Service : Ecommerce Provider : Affiliate Sales : Shopping Cart : Recurring Billing
    www.alliedwallet.com


    2) Here are a couple of companies that will help you open a merchant account:
    Merchant Department - Home - Powered by First Data
    2M PAYMENT SOLUTIONS
    Money Transfer Services - Secure Payment Gateway for Payment Processing
    Adult Merchant Accounts,Pharmacy,Gaming,High Risk,ACH Processing,Offshore,High Volume
    www.failsafepayments.com
    payment service provider,merchant account,payment gateway,credit card & debit card processing,internet payment solutions - Home page
    iPayDNA | Merchant Account | Online Payment Gateway
    Payment Maven Merchant Account Credit Card Processing-Home
    Credit Card Processing ACH Merchant Account Los Angeles California
    High Risk & Offshore Merchant Account | ACH Processing
    www.moneybookers.com
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  • Profile picture of the author milla04
    I have been opening merchant accounts for non-US citizens in the IM niche, which can be done, however you need to have an actual merchant account. The point is now that banks i operate with they class IM niche as not only high risk but high fraud too. Also, you can not be offering make money products, like how to make 1k in 10 days, this junk will not get approved, just change the title to (if the product was about kindle,) how to market on Kindle. Another title in another niche would be how to build websites and sell them. These titles are not promising anything whatsoever. The second thing which is now required is a payment history either in paypal or a third party merchant services, which is now acceptable.

    I am taken into consideration you already have a US entity, US bank account, but just require the final part.

    Most people come to me because they have payment history in paypal but dont have anything else.

    I do not recommend third party payment processors you are leaving this to chance.
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